Questions and Speculations

[kellog010]

So now that it's all but confirmed that William is TMIB, his story makes more sense. I think when he first got to the park and had his experience with Delores, Logan broke his brain when he forced William to accept that Delores is just a robot and wouldn't ever be anything more no matter how different she acted. It wasn't until his wife died and he killed Maeve and her daughter that he experienced/realized the robots can achieve sentience and live beyond their programming. I think that's why he made it his mission to do more and more depraved things, particularity to Delores in the hopes of "waking" them. 

[charmed1]

I'll never understand why they keep the robot morgue dark when they walk in. I turn on the lights when I walk in a room. And why are the malfunctioning dead robots even stored? Shouldn't they be disposed of like an old PC? Or thrown in a bucket of hot metal like the T800 Terminator? 

[arc]

3 hours ago, charmed1 said:

I'll never understand why they keep the robot morgue dark when they walk in. I turn on the lights when I walk in a room. And why are the malfunctioning dead robots even stored? Shouldn't they be disposed of like an old PC? Or thrown in a bucket of hot metal like the T800 Terminator? 

They even do incinerate the ones beyond repair! Also, it seems like they should be able to extract the brain from the hosts and just store those, which would save a lot of space. Plus, that would reduce the chance of a robot uprising a lot if the decommissioned hosts couldn't go rampage without bodies. <shrug>

[arc]

Why is the show set when it is? That is, a rule of thumb about movie and TV (pilot) storytelling is that you start the show at this point because that's when something out of the ordinary happens.

But if Bernard has been periodically waking up to full consciousness and awareness of his nature, if Maeve has months of remembering the cleanup crew techs (and she's only been madam for about a year!), if Dolores has been breaking out of the Sweetwater area multiple times, what makes this time special? Has TMIB really caused anything?

[Gobi]

10 minutes ago, arc said:

Why is the show set when it is? That is, a rule of thumb about movie and TV (pilot) storytelling is that you start the show at this point because that's when something out of the ordinary happens.

But if Bernard has been periodically waking up to full consciousness and awareness of his nature, if Maeve has months of remembering the cleanup crew techs (and she's only been madam for about a year!), if Dolores has been breaking out of the Sweetwater area multiple times, what makes this time special? Has TMIB really caused anything?

I suspect it is because events are reaching a tipping point. All of these problems have been simmering below the surface, with occasional bubbles popping up, and now they are progressing beyond anyone's control. Ford lost control of Bernard, Felix and Sylvester cannot control Maeve, other hosts are showing signs of self-awareness. 

This is only the first season of a projected five season series, so we have a ways to go.

[Notwisconsin]

Ten to one they expand season two to the outside world, and MiB/Wiliam takes Delorus to his home in Stepford, CT.

[arc]

Hell, what if Felix and Sylvester aren't even the first pair of techs that Maeve has co-opted? But the others lost their nerve earlier, so they got fired and Maeve got reset...

(I'm kidding. That theory doesn't make any sense to me.)

[phoenyx]

6 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

Ten to one they expand season two to the outside world, and MiB/Wiliam takes Delorus to his home in Stepford, CT.

I really, really don't think so. What makes you think that'll happen? Personally, I think Dolores will "die" in Episode 10 and be reset, which will complete William's descent into madness and transformation into MiB. 

[Netfoot]

5 hours ago, phoenyx said:

I think Dolores will "die" in Episode 10 and be reset, which will complete William's descent into madness and transformation into MiB. 

Dolores being robotomized might explain why her emergence faltered.  

Perhaps TMIB has been coming to the park and "raping" her repeatedly, trying to trigger it again?  Bearing in mind that we saw him drag her into the barn, but we have no idea for certain what he did with her in there.

[Notwisconsin]

5 hours ago, phoenyx said:

I really, really don't think so. What makes you think that'll happen? Personally, I think Dolores will "die" in Episode 10 and be reset, which will complete William's descent into madness and transformation into MiB. 

it depends on which timeline we're talking about. If it's the 30ya timeline, of course, at the time William goes on his massacre/rampage, she's already been taken away and reset, presumably. However, the preview shows MIB and Delores walking in the graveyard together. Assuming that Maeve and Hector don't engineer a revolt and start killing all the guests (like they did in the movie) which kills MiB/William (MiB being pulled by the neck and all in the preview), then they have to go outside the park since if they don't season two would start to get repetitcious. Perhaps it could be a political-thriller version of the Spielberg/Kubrick version of AI, or of HER, where the OS and her firends escapes at the end and goes who-knows-where?

Episode Ten has two tasks. One, end the story in a satisfying way if the show isn't renewed (it was, but they didn't know that when they wrote the script), and Two, set up a possible season two as part of a five year plan.

In order to do the latter, season two must expand.

[Rumsy4]

I think in the past, Dolores goes back to the buried town after having been cut up by Logan. Logan and William find her there. Her memories of the "incident" are triggered, and she ends up reliving them by shooting and killing Logan. Realizing what she has done, she turns the gun on herself, as before. Then, she gets reset, forgetting William when he goes to find her the next day. That sequence of events would be enough to push William over the edge. 

In present day, Dolores and MiB's meeting is totally going to depend on what he did to her inside the barn. At first, Dolores seemed excited and happy at the prospect of meeting William (though why she expected him is a mystery). But she looked scared to death on seeing MiB entering the church. Will she recognize him as William? I have a feeling that William/MiB may end up dying at the end of the season. He's been too cruel to the hosts to remain with them.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Rumsy4

[DarkRaichu]

Just posting my WILD speculation here:

Arnold is dead and Dolores killed him.  That is a big deal since we are told repeatedly that hosts cannot kill human.  In essence this was Arnold's achievement, to make host bypass its core programming (not to kill) by its own free will.

However, Arnold's memory still "lives" within the older hosts (Dolores, Maeve, Angela, etc) and each older host got controlled / "possessed" by Arnold at various time and activated the dormant memories in each other with the catchphrase "violent delights.."

Ford realized something was wrong with the hosts when he saw Maeve's outburst a year ago when her daughter was shot by MiB.  Ford took the chance and created reverries to accelerate the process of self discovery/flashing out Arnold's codes (ie. he could not access Arnold's code for 30 years per conversation with Dolores).  
This means Maeve's journey is part of Ford's new narrative, ie her self discovery is under parameters set by Ford.   So Felix is not what he seems and sadly things were not looking well for Maeve.

Meanwhile Dolores + MiB somehow unlock the entirety of Arnold's memory (ie. the prize for completing the maze).  Oh and look who's body just becomes available for new memory :P  Boom! Arnold's memory is uploaded to Bernard's body thus "reviving" Arnold by the end of season 2.

And yes, I am saying Arnold wanted to be killed by robot and to be resurrected as a robot.  This whole process was interrupted by Ford when he sent Teddy to kill every 1st gen hosts in that prototype town and memory wiped every single one of them.

[okerry]

9 hours ago, phoenyx said:

I really, really don't think so. What makes you think that'll happen? Personally, I think Dolores will "die" in Episode 10 and be reset, which will complete William's descent into madness and transformation into MiB. 

When the OP mentioned William taking Dolores away to "Stepford CT," I think they were making a (pretty good) joke about Dolores becoming a Stepford Wife.

And yes, I think your own speculation is the accurate one.

[DarkRaichu]

7 minutes ago, okerry said:

When the OP mentioned William taking Dolores away to "Stepford CT," I think they were making a (pretty good) joke about Dolores becoming a Stepford Wife.

And yes, I think your own speculation is the accurate one.

Assuming William = MiB, Dolores getting out of Westworld just to be depressed 30 years later and killed herself with pills would be a nice dark twist :P

[okerry]

21 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Just posting my WILD speculation here:

Arnold is dead and Dolores killed him.  That is a big deal since we are told repeatedly that hosts cannot kill human.  In essence this was Arnold's achievement, to make host bypass its core programming (not to kill) by its own free will.

However, Arnold's memory still "lives" within the older hosts (Dolores, Maeve, Angela, etc) and each older host got controlled / "possessed" by Arnold at various time and activated the dormant memories in each other with the catchphrase "violent delights.."

Ford realized something was wrong with the hosts when he saw Maeve's outburst a year ago when her daughter was shot by MiB.  Ford took the chance and created reverries to accelerate the process of self discovery/flashing out Arnold's codes (ie. he could not access Arnold's code for 30 years per conversation with Dolores).  
This means Maeve's journey is part of Ford's new narrative, ie her self discovery is under parameters set by Ford.   So Felix is not what he seems and sadly things were not looking well for Maeve.

Meanwhile Dolores + MiB somehow unlock the entirety of Arnold's memory (ie. the prize for completing the maze).  Oh and look who's body just becomes available for new memory :P  Boom! Arnold's memory is uploaded to Bernard's body thus "reviving" Arnold by the end of season 2.

And yes, I am saying Arnold wanted to be killed by robot and to be resurrected as a robot.  This whole process was interrupted by Ford when he sent Teddy to kill every 1st gen hosts in that prototype town and memory wiped every single one of them.

It's often asked here, "What is wrong with security in the WW Underground? There should be cameras everywhere. Why doesn't Ford know what's going on?"

Well - maybe he does know, and is allowing it for his own reasons - that have to do with bringing the hosts to full sapience while he's still able to control them.

He probably knows perfectly well what Felix & Sylvester (who I like to call Dumb & Dumber) are doing with Maeve. Ford seems entirely confident of his ability to control the hosts, and the humans, too (Bye, Theresa,) and so far he's been right.

[Stanner]

4 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

Assuming that Maeve and Hector don't engineer a revolt and start killing all the guests (like they did in the movie) which kills MiB/William (MiB being pulled by the neck and all in the preview), then they have to go outside the park since if they don't season two would start to get repetitcious.

That is Dolores in her tan mom jeans dragging him inside what appears to be the church, and we do see Maeve at the top of the escalator in modern street clothes, so...


 

[amandawoods]

Did anyone notice that Logan pulled out two pictures when talking to William?  Hoping that goes somewhere.  

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, Stanner said:

That is Dolores in her tan mom jeans dragging him inside what appears to be the church, and we do see Maeve at the top of the escalator in modern street clothes, so...


 

Hmm, that look.  What if MiB is actually a robot version of Logan that Ford created to control the board of Delos ?  MiB comes every year to Westworld so Ford can maintain and age him..... 

[Gobi]

8 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Hmm, that look.  What if MiB is actually a robot version of Logan that Ford created to control the board of Delos ?  MiB comes every year to Westworld so Ford can maintain and age him..... 

I don't think so. TMIB told Charlotte that she could have his vote in favor of removing Ford, something he wouldn't do if he was Ford's puppet.

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I don't think so. TMIB told Charlotte that she could have his vote in favor of removing Ford, something he wouldn't do if he was Ford's puppet.

The death of his wife shocked his core programming just like Maeve's daughter did her.  He is no longer loyal to Ford and obsessing to find Arnold's codes that he believed would set him free. ;)

He might have skipped last year maintenance which is why he does not have much time this year.

[Stanner]

Yeah, I can't imagine Ford messing up on the eye color, either. Ben Barnes (and Logan) definitely has brown eyes.

The only thing that has ever really made me question Logan vs William as MiB was the line MiB delivers to Teddy: "You used to be beautiful. When this place started, I opened one of you up once. A million little perfect pieces." And then we saw Logan do that very thing in ep9. But would it be that unusual to do that in this world? I know I would be curious about what was in there. 

[amandawoods]

Episodes 8 and 9 had me leaning towards Logan being MIB and William being killed by Dolores(with her reliving her last moments with Arnold).  But the whole eye color thing makes me think that it's still William.

[Dobian]

I think they've dropped some pretty obvious hints that not only is MiB present day William but provides some of his motivation and behavior.  Logan confronted William about chasing after Dolores when he was going to be marrying his sister when they got home.  MiB previously revealed much about himself when he said he was a good man outside of Westworld, had a wife and family.  But we learned that his wife killed herself, apparently because she was depressed in a loveless and maybe psychologically abusive marriage, and probably painfully aware that her husband was always in love with another.  This paints a pretty consistent picture.  William marries Logan's sister out of obligation and convenience when he is really in love with Dolores.  Decades later his wife has killed herself and he takes his obsession with Dolores to a new level, visiting the park regularly since he has the means to do so (he's on the board even after all).  He resents her and even hates her for being a constant reminder of the life he wanted, since his real life outside the park was in some ways a sham and he spent his life with someone he didn't love.  And since Dolores never ages and still looks exactly the same as when he first saw her, when now he is an aging man, it just amplifies the resentment even more, like she's rubbing his face in it without meaning to.  Which of course leads to the rape and violence, to punish Dolores for the false promise of the life William could never have.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Dobian

[Rumsy4]

37 minutes ago, Stanner said:

The only thing that has ever really made me question Logan vs William as MiB was the line MiB delivers to Teddy: "You used to be beautiful. When this place started, I opened one of you up once. A million little perfect pieces." And then we saw Logan do that very thing in ep9. 

William hacked-up the rest of the regiment after that. I really find it chilling that even after he did that, William still wanted to go and find Dolores. He was pretty messed up!

[Gobi]

6 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

William hacked-up the rest of the regiment after that. I really find it chilling that even after he did that, William still wanted to go and find Dolores. He was pretty messed up!

Part of the problem I'm having with William=TMIB. TMIB just doesn't seem that crazy.

[Stanner]

16 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

William hacked-up the rest of the regiment after that. I really find it chilling that even after he did that, William still wanted to go and find Dolores. He was pretty messed up!

I'm sure it's diversionary to make us question who actually is the MiB (if either of them) but it struck me that William didn't say 'I hacked apart a shit ton of y'all years ago', instead he clearly states one.

[arc]

46 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Part of the problem I'm having with William=TMIB. TMIB just doesn't seem that crazy.

William didn't kill all the confederates because he was crazy. He did it for a reason: to credibly threaten Logan's life without host intervention.

[Rumsy4]

33 minutes ago, Stanner said:

I'm sure it's diversionary to make us question who actually is the MiB (if either of them) but it struck me that William didn't say 'I hacked apart a shit ton of y'all years ago', instead he clearly states one.

Maybe he was just being modest. ;-)

Quote

William didn't kill all the confederates because he was crazy. He did it for a reason: to credibly threaten Logan's life without host intervention.

He didnt stop at killing them, though. He took them apart to see what made them tick, I guess. It was pretty morbid.

[arc]

If 3D printing bio-hosts post-dates Arnold's death, why would Kissy (and others? or is it only Kissy?) have the inside of his scalp printed with the maze?

[Gobi]

4 minutes ago, arc said:

William didn't kill all the confederates because he was crazy. He did it for a reason: to credibly threaten Logan's life without host intervention.

I agree, it's just his general attitude lately, including his obsession with Dolores, that makes him seem a bit out there. If Logan lives, I think their relationship after they leave Westworld is going to be a tad awkward.

4 minutes ago, arc said:

If 3D printing bio-hosts post-dates Arnold's death, why would Kissy (and others? or is it only Kissy?) have the inside of his scalp printed with the maze?

Good question.

[DarkRaichu]

21 minutes ago, arc said:

If 3D printing bio-hosts post-dates Arnold's death, why would Kissy (and others? or is it only Kissy?) have the inside of his scalp printed with the maze?

How did the maze appear in front of Maeve's frontier house ?? 

[phoenyx]

Just found the following article on Episode 10 teasers...

http://us.blastingnews.com/showbiz-tv/2016/11/new-westworld-finale-episode-10-season-1-vague-spoiler-teasers-dished-by-castmembers-001289185.html

4 hours ago, Stanner said:

That is Dolores in her tan mom jeans dragging him inside what appears to be the church, and we do see Maeve at the top of the escalator in modern street clothes, so...


 

I'm guessing that's photoshopped. Or is that from an actual page with real pictures of Episode 10?

8 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

How did the maze appear in front of Maeve's frontier house ?? 

Perhaps it had been there all along? Regardless, I definitely think it was weird to just be there.

Edited November 29, 2016 by phoenyx

[Gobi]

12 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

How did the maze appear in front of Maeve's frontier house ?? 

In the thread for Trace Decay, paigow quoted dialogue about a host building it. Not sure if that was from the same episode (or if paigow was kidding).

Edited November 30, 2016 by Gobi
Spelling

[arc]

@phoenyx , Just search Youtube for "westworld promo 1xZZ" where ZZ is the episode number. Like "09", "10". Stanner's screencap is from the promo for ep 10.

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, Stanner said:

Yeah, I can't imagine Ford messing up on the eye color, either. Ben Barnes (and Logan) definitely has brown eyes.

The only thing that has ever really made me question Logan vs William as MiB was the line MiB delivers to Teddy: "You used to be beautiful. When this place started, I opened one of you up once. A million little perfect pieces." And then we saw Logan do that very thing in ep9. But would it be that unusual to do that in this world? I know I would be curious about what was in there. 

Except when MiB says that it sounds like he deliberately cut one of them all the way open to look at their insides and admire the technology.  When Logan does it it's just to show William that they aren't human, and Logan clearly isn't impressed by what's under the skin.  I discount Logan being MiB on that alone, as Logan clearly isn't someone capable of the passion and introspection we see running under the surface of MiB.  Not to mention the level of obsession with the hosts that is obviously present in William but not in Logan.  That aspect of MiB is far more evident in William.  Also, just from a television storytelling point of view, Logan is just a supporting character while William is a major character.  William's nature has been explored on this show much more than Logan, whose only purpose really is to progress William's story.  It makes much more sense to me that William will be revealed to be MiB and not Logan. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Dobian

[Stanner]

2 hours ago, phoenyx said:

I'm guessing that's photoshopped. Or is that from an actual page with real pictures of Episode 10?

No, it's a screen cap I took from the promo for ep10. Lots of interesting information in it, especially if you slo mo or frame by frame it. 

[Gobi]

I went back to the first episode  to get a better look at the picture of Logan's sister. To me, she looks like she's African-American. What could this mean?

The obvious - I'm wrong again.

Logan and/or his sister are adopted.

They aren't adopted, they're children of a mixed marriage, each one taking after a different parent.

If William=TMIB, Charlotte could be his daughter (I have to guess something right).

Regardless, I think TPTB have at least one more surprise up their sleeve.

I'm not sure whether TMIB=William, and if not, I think William is going to die. The problem with that is, who else would have planted the photo at Dolores' ranch? Or has it been there for thirty years? Didn't seem like it was, from its condition.

Anyone else get a good look or screen save of the photo?

[Willowy]

I know William=MiB is a credible theory, and since most credible fan theories have since panned out, it probably will happen. 

Am I the only one that doesn't want it to? Jimmi looks nothing like Ed. Nothing. Unless MiB is going to do a Scooby reveal and take off his face, revealing William's (or vice-versa), I just don't see how they'd make that realistic in the context of the show. 

Everything else has been so good, I'd hate to see them crap this one up. 

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, Franky said:

I know William=MiB is a credible theory, and since most credible fan theories have since panned out, it probably will happen. 

Am I the only one that doesn't want it to? Jimmi looks nothing like Ed. Nothing. Unless MiB is going to do a Scooby reveal and take off his face, revealing William's (or vice-versa), I just don't see how they'd make that realistic in the context of the show. 

Everything else has been so good, I'd hate to see them crap this one up. 

No, I did not see any resemblance either.  I refuse to believe William = MiB unless it is explicitly shown on screen (if ever) :P

[phoenyx]

22 hours ago, Franky said:

I know William=MiB is a credible theory, and since most credible fan theories have since panned out, it probably will happen. 

Am I the only one that doesn't want it to? Jimmi looks nothing like Ed. Nothing. Unless MiB is going to do a Scooby reveal and take off his face, revealing William's (or vice-versa), I just don't see how they'd make that realistic in the context of the show. 

Everything else has been so good, I'd hate to see them crap this one up. 

I will freely admit that I'm not exactly an expert on how a person would look aged. That being said, this is not real life- I'm willing to suspend disbelief to some extent when it comes to fictional dramas. If you can discount any dissimilarities in facial/body structure between William and MiB, I think the evidence is pretty strong that William did in fact turn into MiB. There certainly doesn't seem to be any other candidate that would fit the bill for what MiB was doing 30 years ago. 

 

On 11/29/2016 at 5:00 PM, arc said:

@phoenyx , Just search Youtube for "westworld promo 1xZZ" where ZZ is the episode number. Like "09", "10". Stanner's screencap is from the promo for ep 10.

 

23 hours ago, Stanner said:

No, it's a screen cap I took from the promo for ep10. Lots of interesting information in it, especially if you slo mo or frame by frame it. 

Thanks for pointing that out guys. I had seen the promo but I missed the scene where Dolores is dragging MiB. Looks like Dolores is returning the 'dragging' favour in episode 10 :-p. For those who haven't seen the promo of episode 10:

[Ellaria]

This article provides a great summary of the reveals that we have seen to date plus speculation about what we will see in the finale:

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-recap-season-1-episode-9-well-tempered-clavier

Here are the questions that I have:

• The photo of Logan's sister - Why does it set off such an extreme reaction in Peter Abernathy? Why doesn't he respond as Dolores did: "doesn't look like anything to me?" I think that Dolores/William/Logan may meet up with him in a pre-farmer loop. Didn't Dolores say that he was once a lawman?
• Will we get a glimpse of the outside world? I have not spent much time thinking about what life might be like outside of Westworld but that article points out why it may be important.
• Maeve's journey - When she demands that F&S adjust her core attributes, they notice that someone - with much higher clearance - has already made adjustments. I think I missed something - did we see who made those adjustments? If not, the likely suspect is Ford.
• What happened to Elsie and Stubbs? I can accept that Elsie is dead because of Bernard's memory. But not Stubbs, too. What is the point of having two competent characters if both are killed in similar manner just as they uncover suspicious activity? If Stubbs is alive then someone planned to lure and capture him. He was not able to control the Ghost Nation hosts so someone changed their programming. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[okerry]

As far as Stubbs's fate: Some of us are hoping that Elsie used the Ghost Nation hosts to bring him to her so they can work together and do - something! Seriously, though, we need their characters - the more or less "normal" people who represent the audience - and I'd really hate to see both of them killed off.

I'm waiting to see who's being printed out down there in Ford's basement. We know it's not Theresa; could be Elsie. Hope it's not Stubbs because I'd rather see him alive. Bernard? Even Ford?

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, okerry said:

As far as Stubbs's fate: Some of us are hoping that Elsie used the Ghost Nation hosts to bring him to her so they can work together and do - something! Seriously, though, we need their characters - the more or less "normal" people who represent the audience - and I'd really hate to see both of them killed off.

I'm waiting to see who's being printed out down there in Ford's basement. We know it's not Theresa; could be Elsie. Hope it's not Stubbs because I'd rather see him alive. Bernard? Even Ford?

Absolutely on the bolded statement. I'd like to think that Elsie is still alive and plotting but I am doubtful.

Who is being printed? Excellent question...I have no idea.

Also, speculation and questions here...

• Dolores killed Arnold 34+ years ago.
• Then she is put back in circulation and meets William and Logan approx 4 years after killing Arnold and 30 years prior to the present day. I believe that she is going to play a role in Logan's death.
• Clearly, she is a host that kills living things. (Let's not forget that she did kill that fly at the end of episode.) If she is a killer and a danger in the park, why hasn't she been retired?

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[DarkRaichu]

19 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Clearly, she is a host that kills living things. (Let's not forget that she did kill that fly at the end of episode.) If she is a killer and a danger in the park, why hasn't she been retired?

 

1. She is clearly a unique specimen.  We were told multiple times that hosts cannot kill humans, but Dolores killed Arnold (presumably) without anyone hacking into and manually changing her core programming (a la Maeve).  

To Ford, this is a true challenge, to see if he could revert her back to innocent bot without any stain of Arnold's code.  This was why Dolores has been rebuilt so many times she was practically brand new.  Yet, after all these years Arnold's codes are still elusive to Ford.
Simply putting Dolores in cold storage would be like Ford admitting he was outsmarted by Arnold and Dolores

2. Dolores is the 1st droid Arnold created.  Despite what Ford told Theresa, Ford is a sentimental man :P

3.  Ford thought the routine wipes would prevent her from killing again.  He was right because she did not get her memories back (and killed the fly) until after the reverries update

[phoenyx]

7 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Absolutely on the bolded statement. I'd like to think that Elsie is still alive and plotting but I am doubtful.

Who is being printed? Excellent question...I have no idea.

Also, speculation and questions here...

• Dolores killed Arnold 34+ years ago.
• Then she is put back in circulation and meets William and Logan approx 4 years after killing Arnold and 30 years prior to the present day. I believe that she is going to play a role in Logan's death.
• Clearly, she is a host that kills living things. (Let's not forget that she did kill that fly at the end of episode.) If she is a killer and a danger in the park, why hasn't she been retired?

Assuming William is MiB, MiB may have insisted she not be retired. Or, failing that, Ford may have decided that MiB's attraction to Dolores was worth the risk of keeping her around. And then there's the conversation Ford had with her back in episode 5, my comments will be after it:

Spoiler

 

DR. ROBERT FORD: Hello, Dolores. Do you know where you are?

DOLORES ABERNATHY: (smiles) I'm in a dream.

DR. ROBERT FORD: Yes, Dolores. You're in my dream. Tell me, do you know what this dream means?

DOLORES ABERNATHY: Dreams are the mind telling stories to itself. They don't mean anything.

DR. ROBERT FORD: No! Dreams mean everything. They're the stories we tell ourselves of what could be -- who we could become. Have you been dreaming again, Dolores? Imagining yourself breaking out of your ... modest little loop? Taking on a bigger role? Well, I suppose I can't begrudge you that. (Ford takes Dolores' right hand and while he talks, examines both sides.) My father told me to be satisfied with my lot in life -- that the world owed me nothing. And so ... I made my own world. Tell me, Dolores. Do you remember the man I used to be?

DOLORES ABERNATHY: I'm sorry. I'm forgetful sometimes.

DR. ROBERT FORD: Hardly your fault. But I'm sure you remember him ... Arnold ... the person who created you.

DOLORES ABERNATHY: I'm sorry, I -- don't think I recall anyone by that name.

DR. ROBERT FORD: And yet you can. Somewhere under all those updates, he is still there -- perfectly preserved. Your mind is a walled garden. Even death cannot touch the flowers blooming there. Have you been hearing voices? Has Arnold been speaking to you again?

DOLORES ABERNATHY: No. You're -- you're hurting me. (Dolores looks down at Ford gripping her hand.)

DR. ROBERT FORD: Analysis. When was your last contact with Arnold?

DOLORES ABERNATHY: Last contact: 34 years, 42 days, seven hours ago.

DR. ROBERT FORD: Yes, Dolores ... the day Arnold died. And you have no records of any contact with him since?

DOLORES ABERNATHY: No.

DR. ROBERT FORD: What was the last thing he said to you?

DOLORES ABERNATHY: He told me I was going to help him.

DR. ROBERT FORD: Help him do what?

DOLORES ABERNATHY: To destroy this place.

DR. ROBERT FORD: But you didn't, did you? You've been content ... in your little loop ... for the most part. I wonder ... if you did take on that bigger role for yourself, would you have been the ... hero ... or the villain? That's enough, Dolores. I'm sorry for bothering you, but ... there's no one else left who was there -- no one who understands ... as we understand.

 

I think his exchange with her strongly suggests that he's dying to know what's in her head, but the only way he seems able to access it is by talking to her. Ford clearly suspects that Dolores role may have been bigger than she has let on. Also, the fact that he even resorts to hurting Dolores suggests that he suspects that Dolores may be lying when she tells him that Arnold hasn't been speaking to her. Analysis mode may help a bit, but based on the fact that he'd actually resorted to hurting her before trying it, I think it's clear that he suspects that, like talking to her in normal mode, it doesn't guarantee that she'll reveal everything she knows, or even be honest with what she -does- say. My guess is that Arnold encrypted her brain and Ford simply doesn't have the key, so the only way he can learn what's in it is by talking to her in normal/analysis mode and hoping she spills the beans. Clearly, she's not though- Arnold telling her to keep it a secret has served her well :-). Anyway, the prospect of potentially finally learning what's in Dolores head may be an important reason, if not -the- reason, that Ford continues to keep Dolores operational in the park. I also suspect that despite his claim to Theresa of not being the "sentimental type", he actually is, atleast to some extent. His last line to Dolores strongly suggests this to me anyway:

"That's enough, Dolores. I'm sorry for bothering you, but ... there's no one else left who was there -- no one who understands ... as we understand."

It of course begs the question- what is it that Ford understands, or at least thinks he understands?

6 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

 

1. She is clearly a unique specimen.  We were told multiple times that hosts cannot kill humans, but Dolores killed Arnold (presumably) without anyone hacking into and manually changing her core programming (a la Maeve).  

To Ford, this is a true challenge, to see if he could revert her back to innocent bot without any stain of Arnold's code.  This was why Dolores has been rebuilt so many times she was practically brand new.  Yet, after all these years Arnold's codes are still elusive to Ford.
Simply putting Dolores in cold storage would be like Ford admitting he was outsmarted by Arnold and Dolores

2. Dolores is the 1st droid Arnold created.  Despite what Ford told Theresa, Ford is a sentimental man :P

3.  Ford thought the routine wipes would prevent her from killing again.  He was right because she did not get her memories back (and killed the fly) until after the reverries update

Not so sure if Ford's keeping her alive just to refuse to admit that he was outsmarted by Arnold and/or Dolores, but I definitely agree with the rest of what you said. Also, I have a strong feeling that the -reason- that Ford introduced the reveries was because he was bored of all his androids basically in an endless groundhog day loop, and he's getting to an age where he's going to die anyway, failing being put into an android's body himself. In other words, he's got little to lose at this point- he loves good stories, and what good author wouldn't love it if his creations could create storylines of their own?

Edited November 30, 2016 by phoenyx

[DarkRaichu]

4 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

Not so sure if Ford's keeping her alive just to refuse to admit that he was outsmarted by Arnold and/or Dolores, but I definitely agree with the rest of what you said. Also, I have a strong feeling that the -reason- that Ford introduced the reveries was because he was bored of all his androids basically in an endless groundhog day loop, and he's getting to an age where he's going to die anyway, failing being put into an android's body himself. In other words, he's got little to lose at this point- he loves good stories, and what good author wouldn't love it if his creations could create storylines of their own?

Maybe.  But I also forgot the most important reason she is still around, Ford wants to punish Dolores for killing his best / only human friend.

[Ellaria]

45 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Maybe.  But I also forgot the most important reason she is still around, Ford wants to punish Dolores for killing his best / only human friend.

Well, that's a possibility but it is also speculation. I hope that's not the case and, if it is, I hope that Ford is next on her list. And I'm honestly not sure that Ford is sorry that Arnold is dead. He may have perceived Arnold as a threat. By creating a likeness of Arnold in Bernard, he kept only the qualities that he admired in his partner.

 

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

1. She is clearly a unique specimen.  We were told multiple times that hosts cannot kill humans, but Dolores killed Arnold (presumably) without anyone hacking into and manually changing her core programming (a la Maeve).  

To Ford, this is a true challenge, to see if he could revert her back to innocent bot without any stain of Arnold's code.  This was why Dolores has been rebuilt so many times she was practically brand new.  Yet, after all these years Arnold's codes are still elusive to Ford.
Simply putting Dolores in cold storage would be like Ford admitting he was outsmarted by Arnold and Dolores

2. Dolores is the 1st droid Arnold created.  Despite what Ford told Theresa, Ford is a sentimental man :P

3.  Ford thought the routine wipes would prevent her from killing again.  He was right because she did not get her memories back (and killed the fly) until after the reverries update

I don't think that sentimentality has anything to do with Ford's "relationship' with Dolores. The hosts that he has special feelings for are treated differently - his family,  Bill. I'm more inclined to agree with #1 in a sense - Dolores may be the one host that he can't control. Perhaps she is Arnold's ultimate creation.

[arc]

6 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Here are the questions that I have:

• The photo of Logan's sister - Why does it set off such an extreme reaction in Peter Abernathy? Why doesn't he respond as Dolores did: "doesn't look like anything to me?" I think that Dolores/William/Logan may meet up with him in a pre-farmer loop. Didn't Dolores say that he was once a lawman?

That's his backstory now, that he was a sheriff. But also in the park, as a host, Peter Abernathy was a sheriff for "real" before being reassigned to be Dolores' father. And before that, "the Professor", a leader (?) of a small cult that descended in to cannibalism in a "horror narrative". (All this was said in the pilot ep). And he can be seen in the basement workshops when early (pre-opening?) Dolores was wandering in ep 9, learning some behavior. Maybe a Professor speech... it doesn't look very rancher-dad to me.

My belief, and I'll probably be wrong on this, is that the reveries update awakened him, and it damaged the host code that prevents them from seeing things that would hurt them. So I think it's not specifically who is in the photo but just that it was in some Times Square-ish place. Y'know, something big and bustling and modern. His lines: "But where is she? Have you ever seen anything like this place?" and later "I had a question. A question you're not supposed to ask. Which gave me an answer … you're not supposed to know."

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I don't think that sentimentality has anything to do with Ford's "relationship' with Dolores. The hosts that he has special feelings for are treated differently - his family,  Bill. I'm more inclined to agree with #1 in a sense - Dolores may be the one host that he can't control. Perhaps she is Arnold's ultimate creation.

Far more likely there is intellectual property tied up in her cortex that he doesn't want to destroy.  If there is some quality that Dolores encapsulates -- perhaps something that was developed by Arnold -- which Ford can't duplicate, he wouldn't want her destroyed.  He wouldn't want to do that until he figured out a way to replicate that technology.

[Gobi]

Not so sure Ford and Arnold were that good friends. During Dolores' flashback to the early years, Ford charges into Arnold's office saying, in an angry voice, "Arnold, we have to talk!". In everyday life, that might not mean much, but I think in this show it is significant.