Questions and Speculations

[Ellaria]

Another topic for consideration is the Judas Steer...

We hear Dolores mention it. Wikipedia defines it as "A member of a herd of cattle which has been trained to be or found to be a natural leader. It is one that the rest of the herd will follow anywhere, especially to the slaughterhouse."

This show doesn't use precious minutes to discuss something that doesn't have relevance elsewhere. So who is our Judas Steer - Dolores or Maeve or both? Who will lead other hosts to the slaughter? I believe that Dolores already has. Will she again or is Maeve responsible ?

[phoenyx]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Another topic for consideration is the Judas Steer...

We hear Dolores mention it. Wikipedia defines it as "A member of a herd of cattle which has been trained to be or found to be a natural leader. It is one that the rest of the herd will follow anywhere, especially to the slaughterhouse."

This show doesn't use precious minutes to discuss something that doesn't have relevance elsewhere. So who is our Judas Steer - Dolores or Maeve or both? Who will lead other hosts to the slaughter? I believe that Dolores already has. Will she again or is Maeve responsible ?

Why must anyone be leading others to a slaughter? I'd like to think that Dolores doesn't want to kill anyone. Heck, I don't think Arnold really did either. He may well have gone mad and at that point told Dolores that he wanted to "destroy this place", but I'm pretty sure that what he -really- wanted was to have conscious androids living their lives freely, and only resorted to his mad "plan b" when he thought the only alternative was endless lobotomizations via memory wipes or something along those lines.

As to choosing between Dolores and Maeve, I'm not sure it has to be a choice between one or the other. I think there are enough hosts to have more than one leader. That being said, so far, Ford's interest has been mainly with Dolores and the same can be said (especially if William = MiB is correct) with MiB. Ofcourse, based on the promos (as well as episode 9), Maeve has recruited both Hector and Armistice and it looks like Maeve's on the warpath with -someone-,  and that someone may well be Ford himself. 

[arc]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

So who is our Judas Steer - Dolores or Maeve or both? Who will lead other hosts to the slaughter? 

Maybe Bernard?

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

So who is our Judas Steer - Dolores or Maeve or both? Who will lead other hosts to the slaughter?

The promo shows Maeve leading a number of hosts... somewhere...

[Rumsy4]

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

Not so sure Ford and Arnold were that good friends. During Dolores' flashback to the early years, Ford charges into Arnold's office saying, in an angry voice, "Arnold, we have to talk!". In everyday life, that might not mean much, but I think in this show it is significant.

Agreed. He also says something like "this is beyond the pale". Even if they were friends at one point, they likely had a pretty huge falling out over their creations. That could be why Ford literally created for himself an associate who always deferred to him, but whose intelligence he could exploit. Bernard pre-awareness is so respectful and deferential to Ford--that's quite telling of Ford's megalomaniac nature.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, arc said:

Maybe Bernard?

I like the idea that revived Bernard will lead a host revolt and chop Ford into little pieces. However...

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

The promo shows Maeve leading a number of hosts... somewhere...

My guess is that it's Maeve. But I'm afraid that her story line isn't going to end well and that will make me sad. I would love to see Maeve enjoying herself on a beach in the Caribbean. 

[Netfoot]

13 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I would love to see Maeve enjoying herself on a beach in the Caribbean. 

I'd like to see that, too!  I could even recommend a good beach or two...

[arc]

6 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I like the idea that revived Bernard will lead a host revolt and chop Ford into little pieces. However...

Maeve, ep 9, to Bernard: "He's got a keen sense of irony, our jailer. But I see the logic. Takes a thief to catch one." That saying is kind of an inversion of what a judas steer does, but...

[phoenyx]

20 hours ago, arc said:

Maeve, ep 9, to Bernard: "He's got a keen sense of irony, our jailer. But I see the logic. Takes a thief to catch one." That saying is kind of an inversion of what a judas steer does, but...

I definitely think that Bernard has the qualities of a leader. He was modelled after one, after all. I certainly think it would be nice if he helped in an android revolt, here's to hoping he wasn't actually killed, or atleast not killed for good.

 

On 11/30/2016 at 8:24 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

I like the idea that revived Bernard will lead a host revolt and chop Ford into little pieces. However...

My guess is that it's Maeve. But I'm afraid that her story line isn't going to end well and that will make me sad. I would love to see Maeve enjoying herself on a beach in the Caribbean. 

At this point, the only characters we're fairly certain will actually -survive- season 1 are Ford and MiB, due to articles like this one:

Are Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris leaving 'Westworld'? [Rumor]

That being said, I simply can't imagine Dolores being killed off after this first season. For starters, who would want to kill her? I think the person who might be most tempted would be Ford, but Dolores has never had a gun pointed to his head, or even threatened to spill the beans on anything, as Theresa did, or as it's reasonable to think Elsie might have done if she'd been given the chance. In summation, I don't think Ford thinks she's a strong enough threat to merit it, especially as I also think that there's a fair amount of reasons why he wants to keep her alive. As to Maeve, I also highly doubt it. I just think that Thandie Newton would be far less enthusiastic in her recent interviews if she knew that she was dying in the Season Finale.

[Gobi]

Given the way William s acting now, I think Angela should have been more aggressive with the psychological screening when he arrived: "To make sure we don't give you anything more than you can handle." Indeed.

[DarkRaichu]

4 hours ago, phoenyx said:

At this point, the only characters we're fairly certain will actually -survive- season 1 are Ford and MiB, due to articles like this one:

Are Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris leaving 'Westworld'? [Rumor]

That being said, I simply can't imagine Dolores being killed off after this first season. For starters, who would want to kill her? I think the person who might be most tempted would be Ford, but Dolores has never had a gun pointed to his head, or even threatened to spill the beans on anything, as Theresa did, or as it's reasonable to think Elsie might have done if she'd been given the chance. In summation, I don't think Ford thinks she's a strong enough threat to merit it, especially as I also think that there's a fair amount of reasons why he wants to keep her alive. As to Maeve, I also highly doubt it. I just think that Thandie Newton would be far less enthusiastic in her recent interviews if she knew that she was dying in the Season Finale.

IF MiB=William, I could see him killing Dolores if she gains consciousness but then rejects his affection 30 years in the making

[phoenyx]

4 hours ago, Gobi said:

Given the way William s acting now, I think Angela should have been more aggressive with the psychological screening when he arrived: "To make sure we don't give you anything more than you can handle." Indeed.

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20,- I'm sure the Westworld staff would have appreciated seeing all the things that could go wrong before opening their park, lol :-). 

35 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

IF MiB=William, I could see him killing Dolores if she gains consciousness but then rejects his affection 30 years in the making

I would be very surprised if that happened. I think he's beholden to the Dolores he remembers. I think what he can't stand more than anything is that she can't remember him at all. Notice how he's not putting up any struggle at all as Dolores is dragging him? He is stunned, but I would say in a good way- he -wants- Dolores to remember him. Sure, he would prefer it if she remembered the good things, not the bad things, but I think he had gotten so desperate for her to remember him at all that he'd gone down a very dark path. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by phoenyx

[DarkRaichu]

41 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

I would be very surprised if that happened. I think he's beholden to the Dolores he remembers. I think what he can't stand more than anything is that she can't remember him at all. Notice how he's not putting up any struggle at all as Dolores is dragging him? He is stunned, but I would say in a good way- he -wants- Dolores to remember him. Sure, he would prefer it if she remembered the good things, not the bad things, but I think he had gotten so desperate for her to remember him at all that he'd gone down a very dark path. 

Assuming he's been working for 30 years to bring that old Dolores back, wouldn't a rejection by her be the only thing that would make him flipped and hacked her to pieces like he did the confederados??? 

[Gobi]

Time to get in some final speculation before the season ends.

When William first arrived, I suspected he was a host because his actions mirrored Teddy's. In fact, it is Teddy who is mirroring William.

Teddy, like William, arrived by train, something no other host has done.

He declines to draw on Grizzly Adams, as did William.

He picks up the can Dolores dropped, again the same.

Dolores says she didn't think he would return, he answers that he said he would. This is, once again, a mirror of events with William, who promised to find/return to Dolores.

Dolores wants Teddy to take her away from Westworld. He wants to do the same, but cannot, just as William cannot take her away.

In this current, extremely cruel loop, Ford has Dolores and Teddy re-enacting a fictionalized  version of her relationship with William, one in which Teddy always fails her.

Teddy (before the new Wyatt narrative), was haunted by a past event, that he couldn't remember specifically. Ford said that was his backstory, that was never fleshed out. We know Ford is unreliable. I think Ford based it, without specifics, on what William did when he was with Dolores. This could be the slaughter of the Confederados, or something worse that we'll see in the finale.

Whatever happens between William, Logan, and Dolores in the finale, I expect it to be quite unpleasant.

On a completely unrelated note, how does Charlotte expect to sneak Abernathy out of Westworld without his implanted explosive detonating? Has the explosive been neutralized in decommissioned hosts?

[ACW]

16 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Agreed. He also says something like "this is beyond the pale". Even if they were friends at one point, they likely had a pretty huge falling out over their creations.

Here's a half-baked theory:

Arnold's "Charlie"-analogue was his late or dying wife or daughter, Charlotte.  He went "beyond the pale" when he built a robot copy of her (with or without her consciousness).  Somehow (I said it was half-baked), that robot ended up on the present-day Delos board.  Maybe Ford put her there?

Thoughts?

[Ellaria]

58 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Time to get in some final speculation before the season ends.

When William first arrived, I suspected he was a host because his actions mirrored Teddy's. In fact, it is Teddy who is mirroring William.

Teddy, like William, arrived by train, something no other host has done.

He declines to draw on Grizzly Adams, as did William.

He picks up the can Dolores dropped, again the same.

Dolores says she didn't think he would return, he answers that he said he would. This is, once again, a mirror of events with William, who promised to find/return to Dolores.

Dolores wants Teddy to take her away from Westworld. He wants to do the same, but cannot, just as William cannot take her away.

In this current, extremely cruel loop, Ford has Dolores and Teddy re-enacting a fictionalized  version of her relationship with William, one in which Teddy always fails her.

Teddy (before the new Wyatt narrative), was haunted by a past event, that he couldn't remember specifically. Ford said that was his backstory, that was never fleshed out. We know Ford is unreliable. I think Ford based it, without specifics, on what William did when he was with Dolores. This could be the slaughter of the Confederados, or something worse that we'll see in the finale.

Whatever happens between William, Logan, and Dolores in the finale, I expect it to be quite unpleasant.

On a completely unrelated note, how does Charlotte expect to sneak Abernathy out of Westworld without his implanted explosive detonating? Has the explosive been neutralized in decommissioned hosts?

Nice post.

Agree that Teddy's relationship with Dolores mirrors her relationship with William. Also think that we will see some sort of horrific event in the finale involving Dolores, William and Logan.  I believe that it results in Logan's death. Why then does Ford create the current cruel loop for Dolores and Teddy? Is it to punish them? Or does he think that it is good entertainment? Regardless, I don't think that I am going to like the answer.

As far as Charlotte and her plan for Abernathy, either she isn't aware of the spinal firecracker or it isn't active in decommissioned hosts. More than likely, it will prove to be a Chekhov's gun. Frankly, her plan doesn't make much sense. And I'm not sure that I would trust Sizemore to develop the narrative appropriately.

[DarkRaichu]

16 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

As far as Charlotte and her plan for Abernathy, either she isn't aware of the spinal firecracker or it isn't active in decommissioned hosts. More than likely, it will prove to be a Chekhov's gun. Frankly, her plan doesn't make much sense. And I'm not sure that I would trust Sizemore to develop the narrative appropriately.

Hmm, maybe it is just a diversion for her original plan?  ie when Abernathy goes boom and everyone is distracted, she smuggles out the data

[Ellaria]

8 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Hmm, maybe it is just a diversion for her original plan?  ie when Abernathy goes boom and everyone is distracted, she smuggles out the data

That would actually make more sense. I loathe the character of Charlotte so I would prefer that she goes boom along with Abernathy.

[Farpoint]

Speculation....Ford is also a Host..  gives commands just like Maybe does..  it's a thought.

[okerry]

17 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I like the idea that revived Bernard will lead a host revolt and chop Ford into little pieces. However...

My guess is that it's Maeve. But I'm afraid that her story line isn't going to end well and that will make me sad. I would love to see Maeve enjoying herself on a beach in the Caribbean. 

With Hector. :) 

[ChipBach]

On 11/28/2016 at 8:09 AM, kellog010 said:

So now that it's all but confirmed that William is TMIB, his story makes more sense. I think when he first got to the park and had his experience with Delores, Logan broke his brain when he forced William to accept that Delores is just a robot and wouldn't ever be anything more no matter how different she acted. It wasn't until his wife died and he killed Maeve and her daughter that he experienced/realized the robots can achieve sentience and live beyond their programming. I think that's why he made it his mission to do more and more depraved things, particularity to Delores in the hopes of "waking" them. 

 

On 11/29/2016 at 3:55 PM, Dobian said:

I think they've dropped some pretty obvious hints that not only is MiB present day William but provides some of his motivation and behavior.  Logan confronted William about chasing after Dolores when he was going to be marrying his sister when they got home.  MiB previously revealed much about himself when he said he was a good man outside of Westworld, had a wife and family.  But we learned that his wife killed herself, apparently because she was depressed in a loveless and maybe psychologically abusive marriage, and probably painfully aware that her husband was always in love with another.  This paints a pretty consistent picture.  William marries Logan's sister out of obligation and convenience when he is really in love with Dolores.  Decades later his wife has killed herself and he takes his obsession with Dolores to a new level, visiting the park regularly since he has the means to do so (he's on the board even after all).  He resents her and even hates her for being a constant reminder of the life he wanted, since his real life outside the park was in some ways a sham and he spent his life with someone he didn't love.  And since Dolores never ages and still looks exactly the same as when he first saw her, when now he is an aging man, it just amplifies the resentment even more, like she's rubbing his face in it without meaning to.  Which of course leads to the rape and violence, to punish Dolores for the false promise of the life William could never have.

I think they allude to rape and violence by MiB to Dolores, but we never see it.  He does drag her into a barn however we never see what happens in the barn.  Maybe its as simple as MiB helping awaken her, remind her of 30 years ago, etc.

[phoenyx]

8 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Assuming [MiB/William's] been working for 30 years to bring that old Dolores back, wouldn't a rejection by her be the only thing that would make him flipped and hacked her to pieces like he did the confederados??? 

Remember why William killed those confederados- he was furious with them and Logan for having not only having captured Dolores and him, but also seriously injuring Dolores and turning her world upside down. MiB seems like a guy who is all too ready to meet his maker. He also seems to be like a guy who's actually remorseful for some of the things he's done. If he's come to believe that Dolores has woken up, I think he'd be quite happy about it, and while it might be painful for her to reject him, I think he'd know why, given what he's apparently put her through. 

3 hours ago, ChipBach said:

 

I think they allude to rape and violence by MiB to Dolores, but we never see it.  He does drag her into a barn however we never see what happens in the barn.  Maybe its as simple as MiB helping awaken her, remind her of 30 years ago, etc.

This is also something I've been thinking about a lot too. He mentions that he killed Maeve and her daughter, but he never says he's done the same thing to Dolores. All I can say is I -think- that Episode 10 will reveal just what he was doing when he was dragging her into the barn. I definitely think there will be a lot of reveals in this finale :-)

Edited December 2, 2016 by phoenyx

[wilnil]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 2:23 AM, phoenyx said:

I will freely admit that I'm not exactly an expert on how a person would look aged. That being said, this is not real life- I'm willing to suspend disbelief to some extent when it comes to fictional dramas.

Yeah, I think they were more concerned with casting actors who were what they were looking for as the Man in Black and William than they were in casting lookalikes of the proper ages, as long as there were no "deal-breakers" like glaringly different eye colors, heights or ethnicities.

As for real life, I recently saw a show with a guest cast that included Rebecca de Mornay. I hadn't seen her in a couple decades and didn't recognize her. She looked OK, just different enough from her younger self to me that I didn't realize who she was.

[phoenyx]

4 hours ago, wilnil said:

Yeah, I think they were more concerned with casting actors who were what they were looking for as the Man in Black and William than they were in casting lookalikes of the proper ages, as long as there were no "deal-breakers" like glaringly different eye colors, heights or ethnicities.

As for real life, I recently saw a show with a guest cast that included Rebecca de Mornay. I hadn't seen her in a couple decades and didn't recognize her. She looked OK, just different enough from her younger self to me that I didn't realize who she was.

I definitely agree with you on MiB and William. When it comes to Anrold, though, it -seems- that it was Arnold who was interviewing Dolores when she was clothed, and he still looks very much like Bernard in that one. So for now I'm going with the notion that the guy Angela was crying over wasn't Arnold, but perhaps an android Arnold made to look like a younger version of himself.

[kellog010]

In my mind, after his experience with Delores in the time period from 30 years ago, I think William married Logan's sister while still in love/obsessed with Delores. I think William likely visited the park many times over the 30+ years to see Delores who didn't remember him or their adventure (and of course invested in the park to keep it running). I don't think it's a coincidence that the company is named Delos.

I would think that would mess anybody up over the years and would definitely affect his psyche in the outside world. We don't know what William did in the park the 30+ years until the present time when he visited. I don't think he tortured Delores for all those years, not until the incident with Maeve and his realization that extreme trauma can "wake" the hosts. I agree with others that we don't exactly know what happened in that barn from the first episode, I suspect we will find out in the last episode and it won't be what many suspected.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, kellog010 said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that the company is named Delos.

Surely it was named Delos before William ever met Dolores?

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, kellog010 said:

I don't think he tortured Delores for all those years, not until the incident with Maeve and his realization that extreme trauma can "wake" the hosts.

Yes. Based on the story he told Teddy, I got the impression MiB did not play as sadistic black hat in previous years.  Shooting Maeve's daughter was a special test for him to see how it felt.  He would not need the test had he routinely played black hat in all those years. 

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

Surely it was named Delos before William ever met Dolores?

I've always been struck by the similarity between Delos and Dolores. Coincidence? Maybe. Or perhaps a distraught William leaves the park still infatuated with Dolores and renames the company after he assumes control of it (presumably because Logan is dead).

At some point, we need to learn more about Delos - its history, its board, its current plans for the code, etc. I'm not sure if I want to actually see Delos' operation or simply learn about its operation thru actions in the park. The outside world is still a big part of the mystery of the show.

Finally, according to Wikipedia, "Delos" is:

• is one of the most important mythological, historical and archaeological sites in Greece.
• a holy sanctuary for a millennium before Olympian Greek mythology made it the birthplace of Apollo and Artemis.

I don't know if either of those definitions are significant but it is just more stuff to consider before the finale.

[DarkRaichu]

17 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

At some point, we need to learn more about Delos - its history, its board, its current plans for the code, etc. I'm not sure if I want to actually see Delos' operation or simply learn about its operation thru actions in the park. The outside world is still a big part of the mystery of the show.

Methink Delos was just bought by a Chinese consortium (ie. Theresa was calling her boss in that 1 scene).  Charlotte was actually overseeing the transition of ownership to the Chinese.  This new management was more interested in using user data gained in the past 35 years (instead of managing a theme park).  Perhaps Charlotte convinced them / sold them on this new direction, so she was tasked to expedite getting the data out and then close the park.

When MiB said he was running out of time, it was because he knew that there was a good chance the park was not going to be there the next year.  

[ennui]

23 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Also think that we will see some sort of horrific event in the finale involving Dolores, William and Logan.

I happened to click past Romeo & Juliet last night (1968 version), just as the priest tells Romeo "these violent delights have violent ends." It's right before Romeo & Juliet marry and consummate their relationship, and we know how that love affair ended. 

So, I expect a few deaths in the finale.

"Violent delights" = passion, btw.

Edited December 2, 2016 by ennui

[Gobi]

5 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I've always been struck by the similarity between Delos and Dolores. Coincidence? Maybe. Or perhaps a distraught William leaves the park still infatuated with Dolores and renames the company after he assumes control of it (presumably because Logan is dead).

At some point, we need to learn more about Delos - its history, its board, its current plans for the code, etc. I'm not sure if I want to actually see Delos' operation or simply learn about its operation thru actions in the park. The outside world is still a big part of the mystery of the show.

Finally, according to Wikipedia, "Delos" is:

• is one of the most important mythological, historical and archaeological sites in Greece.
• a holy sanctuary for a millennium before Olympian Greek mythology made it the birthplace of Apollo and Artemis.

I don't know if either of those definitions are significant but it is just more stuff to consider before the finale.

See the shout out thread for more info on the island of Delos and its possible significance.

[Notwisconsin]

9 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I've always been struck by the similarity between Delos and Dolores. Coincidence? Maybe.

Delos was from the original movie and it's sequels. So, it's a coincidence.

[ennui]

8 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

When MiB said he was running out of time, it was because he knew that there was a good chance the park was not going to be there the next year.  

I've said it before, I think MiB is terminally ill.

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, ennui said:

I've said it before, I think MiB is terminally ill.

Very very likely, but that has been used in every other show as a reason for anyone who wants to prove something one. last. time.  I want this show to raise above the stereotype :P

[phoenyx]

6 hours ago, ennui said:

I've said it before, I think MiB is terminally ill.

Assuming William=MiB, he's definitely got a strong case of unrequited love (aka Dolores not remembering him), but you seem to think there's something more- why?

[Gobi]

6 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Very very likely, but that has been used in every other show as a reason for anyone who wants to prove something one. last. time.  I want this show to raise above the stereotype :P

He might also be aware that someone (the Chinese?) plans to take over from Delos, or that Delos plans to shut down the park. He has mentioned several times that he doesn't have much time left.

[Ellaria]

9 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Very very likely, but that has been used in every other show as a reason for anyone who wants to prove something one. last. time.  I want this show to raise above the stereotype :P

Agree. I hope there is more to his quest than a dying man's wish...

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

He might also be aware that someone (the Chinese?) plans to take over from Delos, or that Delos plans to shut down the park. He has mentioned several times that he doesn't have much time left.

Like a take-over from an outside company, government, whatever. Theresa's brief conversation with a Chinese colleague has yet to be completely addressed and therefore can't be overlooked.

The question for me involves MIB's motivation. He saved the park 30 years ago. He is a successful business man and philanthropist. He has a complicated and tragic personal history. Does he want the hosts to become fully sentient and assume control of the park? Does he want the park to continue operation? I think his interests lie in the hosts themselves rather than in the science behind their creation. 

[numbnut]

On 12/1/2016 at 10:05 AM, Gobi said:

Time to get in some final speculation before the season ends.

Ford will make a big presentation about his new storyline before killing the entire board (MiB and Charlotte included). That would be a jaw-dropping "Red Wedding" moment.

[Gobi]

25 minutes ago, numbnut said:

Ford will make a big presentation about his new storyline before killing the entire board (MiB and Charlotte included). That would be a jaw-dropping "Red Wedding" moment.

And replaces them with hosts!

[ennui]

9 hours ago, Gobi said:

He might also be aware that someone (the Chinese?) plans to take over from Delos

Theresa's conversation could indicate that the Chinese already own the park. 

I watched Robocop last night. There were some interesting parallels in android self-awareness. I still think it's a bit odd that the WW hosts started mechanical and are now biological.

I will confess that when MiB first appeared on the screen, I thought it was Peter Weller. He's aged into the same cragginess as Ed Harris. Imho, of course, and YMMV.

[Willowy]

I've apparently convinced myself that they are ALL hosts until I'm proven wrong.

Ford, Charlotte, Logan... even Elsie. And I FER SHUR think Felix is. He obeys whatever Maeve says without question and I don't think he's in love with her as much as a fellow robot digging what she's coming up with, heading for a rebellion. He wants in on it, too. The fact that douchebro Sylvester and Felix are both named for cartoon cats? Makes Syl suspect to me too, but that could be an insignificant thing they just threw in there. 

Reiterating this once more because they can replicate anyone's face to perfection so BRING BACK YUL BRYNNER. The season won't be complete unless I see him for reals, not just in the shadows. Dumb thing to fixate on, but there it is. 

And I REALLY don't want William=MiB. Nope.

[Avaleigh]

I agree that Felix is a host. His behavior makes little sense to me otherwise.

Nice speculation on there likely being a larger plot to close the park and that's what Ford is trying to keep from happening.

15 hours ago, Gobi said:

And replaces them with hosts!

 I actually wouldn't mind this but I'd want the board members to actually see their host counterparts before they're killed so that they have that omgwtf moment.

[phoenyx]

16 hours ago, Franky said:

And I REALLY don't want William=MiB. Nope.

Reminds me of a certain scene from a certain sci fi film ;-)...

Spoiler

Vader: ...Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.

Luke: He told me enough! It was you who killed him.

Vader: No. I am your father.

Shocked, Luke looks at Vader in utter disbelief.

Luke: No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!

Vader: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

Luke: Noooo! Noo!
 

Or for those who wants to see the actual video clip :-)...

 

Edited December 4, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

Just found another great video on Westworld from Nerd Soup, I'm -really- liking his videos. This one focuses in on the Episode 10 Preview and well thought on theories as to what it means...

 

 

Hot off the press from Nerd Soup, right under the wire before the actual Episode 10 Season Finale :-)...

[Pallas]

On 12/1/2016 at 1:05 PM, Gobi said:

In this current, extremely cruel loop, Ford has Dolores and Teddy re-enacting a fictionalized  version of her relationship with William, one in which Teddy always fails her.

Teddy (before the new Wyatt narrative), was haunted by a past event, that he couldn't remember specifically. Ford said that was his backstory, that was never fleshed out. We know Ford is unreliable. I think Ford based it, without specifics, on what William did when he was with Dolores. This could be the slaughter of the Confederados, or something worse that we'll see in the finale.

Whatever happens between William, Logan, and Dolores in the finale, I expect it to be quite unpleasant.

"So you're saying...Ben...is Glory?"  

Wonderful post. Yes, I think Teddy was created by Ford as a mean-spirited burlesque of the young William/Man in Black, one with a few abiding characteristics: (1) he'd "would give anything" to stay with Dolores, yet has unfinished business (like his wedding to Logan's sister);  (2) he is, as you say, haunted by a past even he can't quite grasp, because Ford didn't bother to add it until this most recent iteration -- as a character in Ford's grand new story. Meanwhile, The Man in Black is aware that Teddy is his younger self (as sketched by a brilliant, empty man with a grudge) and does a pretty good job of playing along with the joke; he mocks Teddy, but with an older brother's exasperation and fondness; he even tells Teddy that he admires Teddy's resolve: the name William itself means, 'resolute protector.'

I think what happened at the end of William's original journey with Dolores was so horrifying -- including the murder of Albert -- that Ford may have erased William's memories of it. He may even have given Teddy shades of those memories. But William's memories are what the Man in Black began to sense after he killed Maeve and her daughter, and Maeve came to life. Those are what his wife said he had kept walled off for 30 thirty years -- from the world, and from himself.

ETA: Or maybe William/The Man does retains his memories of The Event, and his mission is simply to recreate with Dolores, at Ground Zero, the original catastrophe. So that Dolores will finally come to life as he saw Maeve be born as she died. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pallas

[Willowy]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

"So you're saying...Ben...is Glory?"  

Not to make too much light of your very erudite and cogent post, mind you... but this single line makes me want to propose. ;)

[TudorQueen]

I have a lot of little questions after tonight's season finale, but only one really major question:

What the hell are they going to do next season??

[Gobi]

I'm calling it. Ford didn't die, that was the host he was building when Theresa was killed.

[Pallas]

16 minutes ago, Franky said:

Not to make too much light of your very erudite and cogent post, mind you... but this single line makes me want to propose. ;)

"Do we suspect...there might be some kind of con-nec-tion..." 

9 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I'm calling it. Ford didn't die, that was the host he was building when Theresa was killed.

And Model-T-Ford said good-bye to the resurrected Bernard. Meanwhile the real Ford may have been on that train. But much more likely, safe at home in the park, having tea with his family.

[CofCinci]

Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris are most likely not returning next season.  Though, I can see Ford perhaps returning as a surprise in the future (basement host).

Wonder who makes it to the second season?
-Dolores:  Returns.  She's the villain of the next storyline.
-Teddy:  Returns.
-Bernard: 50/50. Jeffrey Wright is such a phenomenal actor, but he's never really made Hollywood money.  If he stays on the series for a few seasons, then he'll have the financial security to chose projects that test the limits of his craft.
-Maeve:  Returns.  I believe that Sylvester didn't remove the explosive from her back and she was supposed to die on the train.  Ford planned on her to die; however, the moment she left the train, she became truly conscious.  Perhaps she is the hero to Dolores' Wyatt story.