S02.E04: Episode 4

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Smugglers make an offer to Ross, who in turn makes an offer to Francis; Verity reappears; Ross and George have a frank talk; and Demelza risks her neck prior to a blessed event.

[lark37]

Did they air episode 4 in the US?  I looked for it this Sunday evening on PBS, but there wasn't an episode shown in the Chicago area.  I don't see anything here either about it.  Does anyone know when it will air?  I needed my Sunday night fix of Ross Poldark!

[dubbel zout]

The episode was preempted for the debate. I imagine it will air next week, i.e., October 16.

Edited October 11, 2016 by dubbel zout

[sassykattt]

Nope.  Debate. With the stalker

[Primetimer]

And other not-quite-burning questions from Episode 4.

View the full article

[Nidratime]

God, this episode was such a jumble. They jammed so much in, it was almost unwatchable. They are suffering from the "let's focus on Ross like a laser" they were so dedicated to previously. Now, they have to shove a lot of other plot lines and characters in and it's not very successful, I'm afraid. The idea is -- dear writer -- to introduce some of those plot points sooner, so you don't have to shove them into one episode.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Nidratime

[TomServo]

Every time Caroline is on screen, I expect her to start trying to sell me a Purple mattress.

[Clawdette]

I'm really glad I decided to read the books because I think I'd be struggling to keep up otherwise. 

[nodorothyparker]

Me too.

The books are so much more of an ensemble piece than just the life and loves of Ross Poldark whereas the series has been almost the opposite.  As a result, you have all these other fully fledged storylines that weave in and out of Ross and Demelza's story instead being shoehorned in without room to breathe or make any kind of larger sense.  I'm no longer convinced, for example, that I would be buying this Caroline if I didn't know and like her book counterpart so much.

[janeta]

12 hours ago, Clawdette said:

I'm really glad I decided to read the books because I think I'd be struggling to keep up otherwise. 

Oh hell yeah. I've read the books (multiple times) and saw the original series, and even *I'm* having trouble figuring out where they are in the story.

[abbyzenn]

I'm enjoying this series.  Guess I'm just roped in with the gorgeous scenery and wonderful photography.  I had recently watched some of the original series but I haven't read the books.  Just out of curiosity I might try to read one.

They certainly skipped time from the last episode to this one since last time Demelza wasn't showing and this week she has the baby.

I thought Verity lived away from the area so was surprised to see her and her husband in several scenes as if they were just down the road.

I think Caroline is being a bit too coquettish and I find her rather annoying.

I thought George looked funny (especially those shoes) when he was practicing boxing (or was it just fighting).  I would like to see a bad end for him.

[AllAboutMBTV]

While I enjoy the production values of the show, the plotting of both seasons has been awfully herky-jerky. So many scenes seem to last about 30 seconds (or fewer!) instead of letting the characters and the plot breathe. And I often have no idea how much time has passed between scenes, unless Demelza's pregnancy is showing or their child is old enough to be baptized. "Oh, it must be... later?"

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, abbyzenn said:

I thought Verity lived away from the area so was surprised to see her and her husband in several scenes as if they were just down the road.

Yeah, Verity and her husband live in Falmouth, which is across the other side of the Cornish peninsula, about 20 miles from Truro or thereabouts - a significant journey, by 1790s standards, but not an impossible journey.

1 hour ago, AllAboutMBTV said:

While I enjoy the production values of the show, the plotting of both seasons has been awfully herky-jerky. So many scenes seem to last about 30 seconds (or fewer!) instead of letting the characters and the plot breathe. And I often have no idea how much time has passed between scenes, unless Demelza's pregnancy is showing or their child is old enough to be baptized. "Oh, it must be... later?"

One thing I think this show could have really, really benefitted from is title cards giving dates to mark the time skips at the start of each episode!

[TomServo]

Can somebody please help bring me up to speed on what, exactly, Ross was attempting to do with the mine(s) at the beginning of the episode before he decided to invest in the pump for Wheal Grace?  I watched this with someone who hasn't watched the show before, and even though business inner-workings plots in television don't bore me as much as they do some people, when I tried to explain the mine scenes, it was, "Uhmmm.  This is mine business stuff.  They're trying to blast through to another mine because...reasons?  And I thought the abandoned mine they were blasting through to was on someone else's property in the first place so I have no idea whether they even have mineral rights to it?  Never mind the details; just remember that they're trying to make money and George is being weaselly"

[Llywela]

8 minutes ago, TomServo said:

Can somebody please help bring me up to speed on what, exactly, Ross was attempting to do with the mine(s) at the beginning of the episode before he decided to invest in the pump for Wheal Grace?  I watched this with someone who hasn't watched the show before, and even though business inner-workings plots in television don't bore me as much as they do some people, when I tried to explain the mine scenes, it was, "Uhmmm.  This is mine business stuff.  They're trying to blast through to another mine because...reasons?  And I thought the abandoned mine they were blasting through to was on someone else's property in the first place so I have no idea whether they even have mineral rights to it?  Never mind the details; just remember that they're trying to make money and George is being weaselly"

It's all very complicated. Basically, there was a very, very old mine called Trevorgie that seems to have been lost but is believed to still be worth digging, because it was worked long ago before 'modern' techniques were developed, so if only Ross's miners could find it, they may be able to make a big profit from it. Those old workings are believed to lie somewhere between Wheal Leisure and Wheal Grace, but no one is entirely sure quite where.  Ross was trying to reach the Trevorgie workings from Wheal Leisure, but George put a stop to that. Now he hopes to come at them from the other direction, from Wheal Grace. But either way it's a gamble, based mainly on legend. The mineral rights I believe mostly apply on the surface - at the entrance to whichever mine is doing the digging. Wheal Grace is on Ross's own land, so he owns the mineral rights. I can't remember about Wheal Leisure - it was his father's mine, but I'm not sure if it's on his land or not. It might be on Treneglos land, which is next door, so they'd own the mineral rights. But my understanding is that whichever of the two mines manages to break into the old Trevorgie workings, the mineral rights would apply at the point where the mine is entered. So if they reach it from Wheal Grace, Ross owns the mineral rights anyway. If they reached it from a mine sited on someone else's land, that person would have to be paid their mineral rights out of any profit made. I think that's right, anyway - someone with a better understanding of these things might know more!

[dubbel zout]

To add to Llywela's awesome sum-up, Wheal Grace has something but isn't mineable at the moment because part of it is flooded. Ross and Francis formed a company to pump out the water (there was talk of those two young engineers and their expensive, newfangled machine) and then try to start mining Wheal Grace again. 

Once Ross found out that Francis might have sold him out by telling George the names of the directors/investors of the copper company, Ross isn't sure he can work with Francis. But since George was the source of that information, Ross isn't sure he's telling the truth, and Ross is afraid if he asks Francis about it and it's not true, it will damage their fragile relationship. 

[nodorothyparker]

There's also the reality that Ross is barely keeping his head above water financially with the debtload he's carrying and that he needs a big strike he thinks he has reason to believe is just beyond those rocks if he ever hopes to pay down his debts and not be so financially vulnerable to George.  Because he doesn't have the money to pay the expenses of continuing to blast that direction, he has to convince the shareholders, of whom now George is a substantial one because he's been secretly buying up shares, that it's worth their while to continue advancing the cash to pay for it.  But since George and his uncle have their fingers in many area mines and other financial ventures, they don't particularly need the payout a big strike would bring as much as George wants to quash anything Ross tries to do to hurt him in their ongoing feud.

It's a persistent source of fascination to me throughout the entire series that the Warleggans' business practices are responsible for so much of the financial ruin of so much of the local gentry and yet they never once seem to seriously consider that that likely has as much to do with their difficulty into ever being fully accepted into the society of that same gentry as their humble origins do.

Edited October 17, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[dubbel zout]

The Warleggans are going after people who are financially vulnerable to begin with, and who don't have much regional power. In other words, George isn't trying to ruin the near penniless baron who might have wider connections that he could use to stop the Warleggans' climb. He's targeting people he knows (or thinks he knows) won't be able to fight back in any way. And of course, George's beef with Ross is personal, so he's particularly focused on him.

[Haleth]

I have to admit to getting a bit misty, seeing the whole family together again at the end of the episode.  Also it was wonderful to see the captain's son be so kind and welcoming to Verity. 

I'm still a bit confused about how we are supposed to see Caroline. Her words about the poor were abhorant, yet she bought oranges. Was her motive to help the ill or to manipulate the doctor?  I'm not sure compassion is in her vocabulary. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Haleth

[Neurochick]

I really wish that someone would kick George in the balls, but then again he probably doesn't have any; he probably doesn't have a penis either.  George is a punk ass, nouveau riche wannabe that's begging for someone to beat the shit out of him.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Neurochick

[Llywela]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm still a bit confused about how we are supposed to see Caroline. He words about the poor were abhorant, yet she bought oranges. Was her motive to help the ill or to manipulate the doctor?  I'm not sure compassion is in her vocabulary. 

I don't think Caroline herself knows. She's essentially a spoiled brat who has been raised in an ivory tower - compassion for the needy is a very new concept to her! But she made the gesture in spite of what she'd been raised to believe about the poor. Dwight is confusing her, throwing all her preconceptions into disarray, making her question what she truly thinks and feels.

[FierceAfroChick]

Hi, all.  Thankful for finding this show after being supremely disappointed by "Sleepy Hollow" and OUAT.  All I have now is HGTV, the Food Network and the NFL. 

I don’t understand Ross’ continued obsession with Elizabeth or hers with him.  They seem to be more in love with the idea of each other.  I even went back to watch S1 to see if there were some meaningful moments that keeps them making wubby eyes at each other and I got nothing.  Just little innuendos and wistful reminiscing about what their life would be like if they were still together.  No basis at all for what amounts to pubescent pining.

I was as disgusted by Caroline’s remarks about the poor as Dwight was.  But he got over it quick…I guess oranges cures selfishness and prejudice.

And his ridiculous mooning over Elizabeth aside, Ross annoys me in general.  He makes some dumbass decisions.  Too bad Demelza isn’t the head of the household.

But I did enjoy the Ross/Francis moments.  Would love to see them stick it to George.

Edited October 18, 2016 by FierceAfroChick

[candall]

Ayuh.  The fog's a little thick all up in here.  I'm pretty much left with:

--Wheal Grace is quite the edifice.

--Nice that the villain fop wasn't made to be a one-punch glass-jaw.

--You tell him, Demelza.

--Doggie!  Hi Horace!

 

Caroline:  also mystifying.  Her smile never faltered when her crush object made his disapproval clear about thinning out the herd.  But, oranges.  But, she looked the least coquettish we've ever seen her when she made her "goodbye, perhaps forever" speech--no trace of any come-hither eyelash fluttering to suggest she was putting the ball in his court.  A cipher, that one.  Okay, well, adios Horace.

[Nidratime]

Quote

And his ridiculous mooning over Elizabeth aside, Ross annoys me in general.  He makes some dumbass decisions.  Too bad Demelza isn’t the head of the household.

Apparently, one of Ross' mining partners agrees. I recall, when Ross was declared innocent at his trial, the fellow said jokingly, "Too bad. I was looking forward to dealing with the sensible side of the family."

[FierceAfroChick]

54 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

Apparently, one of Ross' mining partners agrees. I recall, when Ross was declared innocent at his trial, the fellow said jokingly, "Too bad. I was looking forward to dealing with the sensible side of the family."

Yep, that was Henshawe.  The supporting characters are great.

[magdalene]

I really like Caroline, sure she is flighty but she is showing the first tiny seeds of a social conscience. Plus her baroque hair do is awesome - birds could nest in that. 

The guy who plays George is also Freddie on THE BLANDINGS. It's bizarre  watching the two performances side by side.  I do think the actor is better suited to comedy.

[Arwen Evenstar]

On October 18, 2016 at 1:10 PM, candall said:

Ayuh.  The fog's a little thick all up in here.  I'm pretty much left with:

--Wheal Grace is quite the edifice.

--Nice that the villain fop wasn't made to be a one-punch glass-jaw.

--You tell him, Demelza.

--Doggie!  Hi Horace!

 

Caroline:  also mystifying.  Her smile never faltered when her crush object made his disapproval clear about thinning out the herd.  But, oranges.  But, she looked the least coquettish we've ever seen her when she made her "goodbye, perhaps forever" speech--no trace of any come-hither eyelash fluttering to suggest she was putting the ball in his court.  A cipher, that one.  Okay, well, adios Horace.

I don't really like Caroline; I only tolerate her because of Horace.

Dr, Ennis mentioned that "oranges, when you can get them, are threppence a piece. In old money, you could buy 4 oranges for a shilling, and with 20 shillings to a pound...they were indeed luxury items.  One could buy a full meal with ale for three pennies at most pubs during those times. 

Caroline's ideas on eugenics were appalling, but  she was speaking from the standpoint of a sheltered, spoiled, dim witted heiress, who didn't really understand poverty.  Her largesse of the oranges to help the miners combat scurvy showed that she had learned some empathy.

Demelza is my favorite character, and if I ever get another cat, after our four shuffle off their mortal coil, she'll be named thusly. She's tough, and spunky, she stands up for herself, and she does what she has to.

Verity is my next favorite character so I was happy to see her embraced by her stepson and reconciled to her brother.  What she did by eloping in those days was a ballsy move, but she chose her own happiness over a life of misery.   I liked how her stepson told his sister Esther to "get over it" and get with the program.  

Francis, I'm warming up to, now that he's stopped being an asshole to his wife and to Ross and to Verity. Anything Warleggan, I despise. 

 Prudie and Judd provide comic relief. Their love-hate relationship with one another is highly amusing.  The scenery in Cornwall is absolutely breathtaking. The sea, the sky, and the terrain...gorgeous.

[Sew Sumi]

On 10/20/2016 at 9:16 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

I don't really like Caroline; I only tolerate her because of Horace.

Dr, Ennis mentioned that "oranges, when you can get them, are threppence a piece. In old money, you could buy 4 oranges for a shilling, and with 20 shillings to a pound...they were indeed luxury items.  One could buy a full meal with ale for three pennies at most pubs during those times. 

Caroline's ideas on eugenics were appalling, but  she was speaking from the standpoint of a sheltered, spoiled, dim witted heiress, who didn't really understand poverty.  Her largesse of the oranges to help the miners combat scurvy showed that she had learned some empathy.

Demelza is my favorite character, and if I ever get another cat, after our four shuffle off their mortal coil, she'll be named thusly. She's tough, and spunky, she stands up for herself, and she does what she has to.

Verity is my next favorite character so I was happy to see her embraced by her stepson and reconciled to her brother.  What she did by eloping in those days was a ballsy move, but she chose her own happiness over a life of misery.   I liked how her stepson told his sister Esther to "get over it" and get with the program.  

Francis, I'm warming up to, now that he's stopped being an asshole to his wife and to Ross and to Verity. Anything Warleggan, I despise. 

 Prudie and Judd provide comic relief. Their love-hate relationship with one another is highly amusing.  The scenery in Cornwall is absolutely breathtaking. The sea, the sky, and the terrain...gorgeous.

Oh @Arwen Evenstar, how much we identify. :D Except I am prepping for another kitty now (we have 2 at present), and if it's a female, well, I got it first! Because that's one of the best cat names ever! LOL

[stanleyk]

I'll probably keep watching because of the two pretties (landscape and Aidan Turner), but this show mystifies me. At the end of this episode I felt like we were starting over at the beginning with the same plot cycle, again, some more. Ross is struggling to get out of debt. George is dastardly and manages to get an advantage, but then Ross pivots with more confusing mine-related plots. Demelza and Ross argue because they are both pig-headed. Ross does something foolhardy that may end with him getting arrested, again.

It's like we're in the tenth season and the writers have run out of ideas for new stories, but we're in the second season and the plot never seems to move forward, even with the enormous time jumps. Is this show an endless argument over mine rights and wondering whether a mine is going to pay out, sprinkled with mild family drama and inexplicable sporadic moony eyes between Ross and Elizabeth? Because that's kind of what it feels like to me.

[Arwen Evenstar]

49 minutes ago, stanleyk said:

I'll probably keep watching because of the two pretties (landscape and Aidan Turner), but this show mystifies me. At the end of this episode I felt like we were starting over at the beginning with the same plot cycle, again, some more. Ross is struggling to get out of debt. George is dastardly and manages to get an advantage, but then Ross pivots with more confusing mine-related plots. Demelza and Ross argue because they are both pig-headed. Ross does something foolhardy that may end with him getting arrested, again.

It's like we're in the tenth season and the writers have run out of ideas for new stories, but we're in the second season and the plot never seems to move forward, even with the enormous time jumps. Is this show an endless argument over mine rights and wondering whether a mine is going to pay out, sprinkled with mild family drama and inexplicable sporadic moony eyes between Ross and Elizabeth? Because that's kind of what it feels like to me.

Not sure if you already know this, but this isn't a series like Downton Abbey (wonderful though it was) that was fabricated and fluid, where characters could be written out based on creative differences, but this screenplay was adapted from a series of books written over a period of 50 years.

The original 70s version on Masterpiece Theatre wouldn't gave included the 2 or 3 volumes that weren't written yet.  Totally agree that Aiden Turner is definitely easy on the eyes.

[Nidratime]

Quote

Is this show an endless argument over mine rights and wondering whether a mine is going to pay out, sprinkled with mild family drama and inexplicable sporadic moony eyes between Ross and Elizabeth? Because that's kind of what it feels like to me.

No, things do move on,

Spoiler

but the rivalry between George and Ross never ends.

However, if the writer/producer had put more emphasis on some of the subplots and supporting characters, giving them more room to breathe, I think you wouldn't be feeling this way.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Nidratime

[dubbel zout]

54 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

However, if the writer/producer had put more emphasis in some of the subplots and supporting characters, giving them more room to breathe, I think you wouldn't be feeling this way.

I agree this is a problem. I'm liking the Ennis/Caroline plot (and Caroline in general), but even that kind of goes in circles because it doesn't get much time.

Edited October 24, 2016 by dubbel zout
Some of this is for the wrong episode. Oops.

[skyways]

Yes it's the way the new producer chose to tell the story that makes it seem as if nothing happens. The old series has more characters fleshed out, more dramatic flair and more use of cliffhangers. That style engages me more.

Edited October 24, 2016 by skyways

[stanleyk]

On 10/24/2016 at 8:37 AM, Arwen Evenstar said:

Not sure if you already know this, but this isn't a series like Downton Abbey (wonderful though it was) that was fabricated and fluid, where characters could be written out based on creative differences, but this screenplay was adapted from a series of books written over a period of 50 years.

The original 70s version on Masterpiece Theatre wouldn't gave included the 2 or 3 volumes that weren't written yet.  Totally agree that Aiden Turner is definitely easy on the eyes.

I know it's based on a series of books, and I'm not expecting a Downton Abbey clone (especially since I wasn't that big a fan of Downton). But being based on a series of books does not excuse the sense (that I, at least, have) that the plot is going in circles. For one thing, the writers are presumably tasked with adapting, which can mean restructuring, creating composite characters, changing the order of events, etc., if it makes a more compelling narrative. Perhaps, as others have suggested, it would feel like there is more momentum if more time were given to characters other than Ross, since his plots seem the most circular. I can see on paper that things have happened (Ross and Demelza got married, a baby was born, a baby died, another baby was born, the servants came and went and came, died then didn't die, there was hope for a mine, then no hope, then hope for a different mine, then no hope, there was a duel and a falling-out and then a falling-in, new characters showed up), but the feeling I have is that we're back where we started.

Edited October 25, 2016 by stanleyk