S04.E12: In-Laws

[Vinyasa]

There is zero affection between Nick and Sonia. If he wants her to move back in, why isn't he giving her any reason to think he is interested in her?

I still don't believe they had sex. Nope!   I think the producers were grabbing at straws to spice up a dull couple and dull season.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Vinyasa

[gonecrackers]

As others have said the editing in this show seems to get worse & worse - between the 'different Sonia's' & I got the point Nick was wearing his ring, Sonia was not - whatever.

I had to watch this episode on my laptop with headphones, & that music was even more annoying. It was loud & I could barely understand mr. mumbler (Nick) over it; they could at least turn it down a notch.

[LazyToaster]

Regarding Heather's wedding dress - I think it would have looked better if there had been time to get it altered properly.  It was just too big and let's face it - the girls don't stay "up & at 'em" forever.  Buying a dress last minute like they did means you get something off the rack and do the best you can with fit.  That said - she should have picked another style, because it just didn't fit right and didn't look good on her.  

[ralph]

Tom's mother worked a lot, leaving him alone and feeling neglected...

Tom's wife now works a lot, leaving him alone and feeling neglected...

[ralph]

Did Tom's mom not realize she was making him sound crazy by repeating "Tommy needs lots of attention". I'm assuming half of it was because she's one of "those moms" who likes to infantize her adult children, but damn, that's still a lot of crazy to deal with. Maybe she was warning Lily on purpose! LOL!

[Nowhere]

I didn't like Tom at all when this season started. Now that they're showing more of his personality and less of him constantly sucking Lily's fish face, I actually really like him. I don't see why there's so much criticism toward Tom right now. He is trying really hard to be there for Lily every time she gets pouty and dramatic. She didn't do the vow thing and he was really sweet about it although I could tell it hurt his feelings. And when he was trying to talk to her about something of importance in the car and she totally ignored him, he turned it into a joke. Why is everybody up his ass because he said Lily is only giving 60%?? I don't see how that's inaccurate. It probably does feel that way to him.

And furthermore, Nick haters were acting like he was the worst person in the world for being on his computer when Sonia wanted to talk (I agree. I can't stand people like that either), but when Lily does the same thing to Tom it's fine and she's actually praised for being hardworking and ambitious. Yeah she's that and also rude and neglectful. Did she forget why she's on this show? Is it for Tom or is she here for real estate advertising. Ok we get it. You're a realtor. Now pay attention when your husband tells you about his doctor appointment. Just like he did for you when you went into hysterics over shoulder surgery.

I don't think she is wrong for working so hard. It's just another example of how the experts aren't really experts. This was the absolute shittiest match. I have zero problem with Tom being a free spirited minimalist. I think he should live his life and if he can live with less and work less and be happy, he should do so. We only have one life to live. I don't think it's lazy and cheap to not want to be in the rat race. I think it's admirable. So they marry him off to a woman who would probably work 24 hrs a day if given the chance?  I don't think Tom is a bad husband or cheap or lazy. He's just matched with somebody who doesn't appreciate his views on life. I know there are a lot of women out there who would appreciate it and also the simplicity of a small bouquet of flowers and the thoughtfulness of wanting to write new vows after one month. Many women have husbands who are all hard work and don't give thought to the little things like that. Obviously Tom does and he's called cheap for it. 

There are also men out there who would love to partner up with someone who wants to work like hell as Lily does. I doubt Tom is that guy. But this is the expert choice. Just wow. It's so ridiculous. Any one of us would know that this won't work long term. I think they will decide to stay married but I don't think it will be forever.

I will admit that Lily gets on my last nerve. The way she is making such a dramatic thing over her father's estrangement is annoying. Yes, it's hurtful when family members do that, especially a dad. But I'm sick of her making it seem like she was abandoned as a child. And when she called him on his birthday and he didn't pick up she said, "part of me was hoping he'd pick up." Huh? Well no shit Sherlock. That's the point in calling. Saying, "Part of me was hoping he wouldn't pick up", would have made more sense but of course Lily has to make this as dramatic as possible and then pout like a toddler afterwards.

Also, Lily, it's not per-FECT so stop saying it that way. 

[psychoticstate]

5 hours ago, LazyToaster said:

Regarding Heather's wedding dress - I think it would have looked better if there had been time to get it altered properly.  It was just too big and let's face it - the girls don't stay "up & at 'em" forever.  Buying a dress last minute like they did means you get something off the rack and do the best you can with fit.  That said - she should have picked another style, because it just didn't fit right and didn't look good on her.  

I agree.  I have mentioned myself that the dress itself wasn't bad, it simply didn't fit her properly.  The bodice was cut too low and the waist hung too low/didn't fit.

If I'm remembering correctly, she tried on another dress and one that was much more flattering.  I remember being shocked that she chose the one she did.  Shame on her friends that were with her that didn't tell her THAT dress was not the most flattering.  Or maybe they did and she was just set on having that one. 

Still, they are told they have 2 weeks to prepare.  I would think, as a woman, the first thing you would do would be to go and pick out your dress and your bridesmaids' dresses.  Surely there would be a tailor somewhere in Miami that could alter a wedding dress within a week.  I don't recall Heather's bridesmaids looking as if they dressed on the fly and we all know that most dresses need to be altered.  So it's possible that the bridesmaids' dresses were altered/tailored and Heather's was not because she thought it was fine the way it was. 

Or it could be that I spend too much time thinking about this crap. 

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I didn't like Tom at all when this season started. Now that they're showing more of his personality and less of him constantly sucking Lily's fish face, I actually really like him. I don't see why there's so much criticism toward Tom right now. He is trying really hard to be there for Lily every time she gets pouty and dramatic. She didn't do the vow thing and he was really sweet about it although I could tell it hurt his feelings. And when he was trying to talk to her about something of importance in the car and she totally ignored him, he turned it into a joke. Why is everybody up his ass because he said Lily is only giving 60%?? I don't see how that's inaccurate. It probably does feel that way to him.

And furthermore, Nick haters were acting like he was the worst person in the world for being on his computer when Sonia wanted to talk (I agree. I can't stand people like that either), but when Lily does the same thing to Tom it's fine and she's actually praised for being hardworking and ambitious. Yeah she's that and also rude and neglectful. Did she forget why she's on this show? Is it for Tom or is she here for real estate advertising. Ok we get it. You're a realtor. Now pay attention when your husband tells you about his doctor appointment. Just like he did for you when you went into hysterics over shoulder surgery.

I don't think she is wrong for working so hard. It's just another example of how the experts aren't really experts. This was the absolute shittiest match. I have zero problem with Tom being a free spirited minimalist. I think he should live his life and if he can live with less and work less and be happy, he should do so. We only have one life to live. I don't think it's lazy and cheap to not want to be in the rat race. I think it's admirable. So they marry him off to a woman who would probably work 24 hrs a day if given the chance?  I don't think Tom is a bad husband or cheap or lazy. He's just matched with somebody who doesn't appreciate his views on life. I know there are a lot of women out there who would appreciate it and also the simplicity of a small bouquet of flowers and the thoughtfulness of wanting to write new vows after one month. Many women have husbands who are all hard work and don't give thought to the little things like that. Obviously Tom does and he's called cheap for it. 

WHAT??? Lily hasn't been trying? So I guess her getting his brother to fly in for his birthday and throwing a party was not trying. Her gifting him something thoughtful for their 1 month anniversary was just nothing right? She seems to have done a lot for him. Hell she even spent the night on the bus. How do we not know she was finishing up some work for the day in the car so she was free the rest of the time for Tom? You have to remember how much the way things are edited play a roll in things. When is he working? We have seen her work but not once has he gone off to work or come back from work and said something to her about his day on the job. Those vows he did were NOT new at all. He couldn't come up with something new so he just added a few things to his original ones. That is not thoughtful IMO but lazy and far from sweet. She said she was sorry for not having the time to write ones out but heck she gave him a nice gift at the very least. His flowers were given out of guilt and he said he felt guilty for not having a gift. Yet I doubt he would have had a thoughtful gift no matter what. Its one thing to be a minimalist but he has a crappy judgmental attitude towards everyone that doesn't share his views and lifestyle. I find nothing wrong with how Lily has been at all during this. She puts in just as much, if not, more I think into their relationship. There is not a single thing wrong with her working when she is trying to get her career going in that field to make sure she has a good income and the money to have a family one day. She actually comes off VERY responsible and mature for her age I think. If he can't handle someone not being at there every second of the day for him then he has an issue and needs to get over himself. When his own mother is telling Lily that he needs so much attention that says a lot about him there. As someone else mentioned, he probably wouldn't be able to handle having kids because they would suck the attention from him. 

[Snarklepuss]

55 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I agree.  I have mentioned myself that the dress itself wasn't bad, it simply didn't fit her properly.  The bodice was cut too low and the waist hung too low/didn't fit.

If I'm remembering correctly, she tried on another dress and one that was much more flattering.  I remember being shocked that she chose the one she did.  Shame on her friends that were with her that didn't tell her THAT dress was not the most flattering.  Or maybe they did and she was just set on having that one. 

Still, they are told they have 2 weeks to prepare.  I would think, as a woman, the first thing you would do would be to go and pick out your dress and your bridesmaids' dresses.  Surely there would be a tailor somewhere in Miami that could alter a wedding dress within a week.  I don't recall Heather's bridesmaids looking as if they dressed on the fly and we all know that most dresses need to be altered.  So it's possible that the bridesmaids' dresses were altered/tailored and Heather's was not because she thought it was fine the way it was. 

Or it could be that I spend too much time thinking about this crap. 

Sonia's dress didn't ft her properly either.  The bodice stuck out from her body making her look heavier.  You can see space in the photos between her skin and the topmost edge.  Sonia is big-busted so she would have had to find a gown that would fit her in both the bust and the waist area.  She did, but it still needed alteration that it didn't get.  My mother was a seamstress who made my wedding gown by hand.  That and having watched enough "Say Yes to the Dress" has made me see how frequently women need that alteration around the bust line on a strapless gown.  It has also made me realize what a specialty wedding gowns are to make and alter.  Knowing how hard it is to find a decent tailor where I live, and knowing how a lot of them wouldn't have the ability or experience to handle wedding gowns let alone on such a rush basis, I wonder if that was a factor in the women wearing the gowns off the rack this season.  I noticed that pretty much all the gowns from previous seasons of this show fit better than Heather's or Sonia's.  Weren't they more last minute because of drop outs this season?  I know Heather was supposed to have been matched with someone else.

[fabdarling]

Next season I want Sonia's Dad, Nick's friend and Heather's friend to pick the couples and counsel them throughout the show.  

They seem to know what they are doing! 

[princelina]

For the record, Heather's friends were not fans of the dress.  I don't remember everything but one of them said something like, "All you see is boobs!"

[Stillhoping]

Well i am a Tilly fan...I like them both.

Even when they have differences they are civil..unlike Nick. I dont see how Sonia can forget his horrible rant

One thing I notice about Tom and Lilly their interactions and family time seem so much more real. The birthday party lasted hours...they ate..the famiky and friends interacted.

The moms had a big nice meal...food at picnic.

All the others have odd stilted stage set ...producer driven ..events. sad "Cinco de Maya"   ....Derek and his scripted bar night with pool and Heather letter...even Sonias nice dad had nothing to eat or drink...seemed like they just were there for cameras.

I think much of the Tilly drama is manipulated for audience enjoyment 

[qtpye]

Yeah, I sort of remember one of Heather's friends being a little shocked at the dress, but Heather was going for a Marylin Monroe type of look (however if you look at Monroe's iconic dress in the Seven Year Itch, it was not that risque compared to the wedding gown).

[gonecrackers]

45 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Yeah, I sort of remember one of Heather's friends being a little shocked at the dress, but Heather was going for a Marylin Monroe type of look (however if you look at Monroe's iconic dress in the Seven Year Itch, it was not that risque compared to the wedding gown).

As I recall her mom didn't seem happy with it either, although everyone supported her decision. 

It was an interesting choice for marrying someone who had never seen her before, then being annoyed at all the kissing at the wedding, wanting to take it slow, have it not be a 'hook up', etc... I've never been a Derek fan but that was not 'classy' & may have sent a mixed message from the get go.

[Mlle. Kitty]

12 hours ago, Stillhoping said:

Well i am a Tilly fan...I like them both.

Even when they have differences they are civil..unlike Nick. I dont see how Sonia can forget his horrible rant

One thing I notice about Tom and Lilly their interactions and family time seem so much more real. The birthday party lasted hours...they ate..the famiky and friends interacted.

The moms had a big nice meal...food at picnic.

All the others have odd stilted stage set ...producer driven ..events. sad "Cinco de Maya"   ....Derek and his scripted bar night with pool and Heather letter...even Sonias nice dad had nothing to eat or drink...seemed like they just were there for cameras.

I think much of the Tilly drama is manipulated for audience enjoyment 

Sonia's answer to one of the expert's excercise questions, "what makes a happy home?" (or something like that) said it all, to me.  She replied in part, "somewhere where I feel safe."  If I were Sonia and I overheard Nick's outburst, it would take a very long time before I would feel emotionally safe around him; I don't know if I ever would be able to get to that point.  Don't get me wrong - my husband and I have gotten into a few very intense arguments during our 23 years together, but we have never crossed the line into emotionally abusive comments, name calling, or insults.  Those kinds of things can do a lot of damage to a relationship, potentially irreversible damage.  Maybe some people can find a way to brush that stuff off, but some can't.  With Nick and Sonia, the relationship is SO new, so his outburst probably makes her that much less inclined to put herself in that position of vulnerability again.  I know that's how I would feel, anyway.  She wants to feel safe, and her gut is warning her.

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, Mlle. Kitty said:

Sonia's answer to one of the expert's excercise questions, "what makes a happy home?" (or something like that) said it all, to me.  She replied in part, "somewhere where I feel safe."  If I were Sonia and I overheard Nick's outburst, it would take a very long time before I would feel emotionally safe around him; I don't know if I ever would be able to get to that point.  Don't get me wrong - my husband and I have gotten into a few very intense arguments during our 23 years together, but we have never crossed the line into emotionally abusive comments, name calling, or insults.  Those kinds of things can do a lot of damage to a relationship, potentially irreversible damage.  Maybe some people can find a way to brush that stuff off, but some can't.  With Nick and Sonia, the relationship is SO new, so his outburst probably makes her that much less inclined to put herself in that position of vulnerability again.  I know that's how I would feel, anyway.  She wants to feel safe, and her gut is warning her.

This is the thing, she needs to go with her gut on it. That instinct is telling her to not go back but sadly the part of her that is conflicted has more to do I think with the fact that the idiot "experts" keep telling her and demanding her to move back in and make it work. The fact that they never tell Nick anything about how he has behaved but rather put it on her to make it work or blame her for it not, etc...its very telling about these people that claim to be relationship "experts". Agree that you do have fights on different levels with your spouse but when you are telling someone you aren't attractive or start name calling or getting to the point of it being verbally abusive then its done. My husband and I have had our ups and downs and many fights but NEVER EVER have words like you aren't attractive or anything to make one want to walk ever come up during those fights. Sonia really needs to just say she is done and not look back. She deserves better...anyone would in that situation.

[Lily247]

I do not, and have never liked seeing Tom and Lilly as a couple on my TV screen. The pompousness is just too much for me to handle. Lilly making a big huge giant deal over every little thing about herself, from the fact that "she has worked hard for EVERYTHING she has" (uhhh... you want a medal bc you have a job?) to her elective shoulder surgery. And also the constant self praise (I cook... I clean... I work so hard ...) Also I abolsutely cannot stand how exhibitionist-y they are with the constant lip pecks before and after just about every damn word. 

[jamblastx]

Anyone else notice just how many less pages there are here on these last few weeks?  We used to have 7 or 8 pages per episode and lately we barely get 3. 

[Snarklepuss]

5 minutes ago, jamblastx said:

Anyone else notice just how many less pages there are here on these last few weeks?  We used to have 7 or 8 pages per episode and lately we barely get 3. 

Yep I was thinking about mentioning that myself.  I think a lot of posters have dropped out.  This season is horrible.  Why even bother talking about it?

2 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

This is the thing, she needs to go with her gut on it. That instinct is telling her to not go back but sadly the part of her that is conflicted has more to do I think with the fact that the idiot "experts" keep telling her and demanding her to move back in and make it work. The fact that they never tell Nick anything about how he has behaved but rather put it on her to make it work or blame her for it not, etc...its very telling about these people that claim to be relationship "experts". Agree that you do have fights on different levels with your spouse but when you are telling someone you aren't attractive or start name calling or getting to the point of it being verbally abusive then its done. My husband and I have had our ups and downs and many fights but NEVER EVER have words like you aren't attractive or anything to make one want to walk ever come up during those fights. Sonia really needs to just say she is done and not look back. She deserves better...anyone would in that situation.

Sonia said something somewhere (not sure if it was in this episode or one of the shorter shows) about being torn between what her gut was telling her to do and being a "hopeless romantic".  On top of that she has a LOT of pressure to stay married from the "experts", the producers AND her father, I am sure.  Sonia seems like a sweet person that likes to please people (not a "people pleaser" per sé but still someone who likes to please).  I am sure it was hard for her to figure out what the "right" thing was to do.  She should follow her gut and screw what everyone else wants.  Heather may be cold about it but in the end she's right that you have to do what's right for YOU, not anyone else.

[Paddywagon]

4 hours ago, jamblastx said:

Anyone else notice just how many less pages there are here on these last few weeks?  We used to have 7 or 8 pages per episode and lately we barely get 3. 

True dat.  But last season will be especially hard to beat!  I mean, last season we had a SM firestorm started by Ashley's family and her friends were trolling all the forums...it was awesome!  And we had Sam who will forever be used as an example of how not to treat other people.  And Ashley and Zombie are now interchangeable nouns.  Yeah, those were the days, lol!

This season is so tame.  I wish Heather and Derek had found some glimmer of hope so they could've gone the 6 weeks.  Not because they had a chance in hell, but because I would've loved to see him bicker and whine over stupid stuff, haha!  Nick is an ass in a scary way but Derek is an ass that would've provided some great snark material.

Maybe next season, if there is one.

[ChristmasJones]

9 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

This is the thing, she needs to go with her gut on it. That instinct is telling her to not go back but sadly the part of her that is conflicted has more to do I think with the fact that the idiot "experts" keep telling her and demanding her to move back in and make it work. The fact that they never tell Nick anything about how he has behaved but rather put it on her to make it work or blame her for it not, etc...its very telling about these people that claim to be relationship "experts".

Yes, it is very concerning to me that we have never once seen an expert truly question Nick about what he said during that outburst. They seem to easily write it off as him feeling stressed, or being slightly drunk, or both.

There really is a strong bias on this show for putting the blame/responsibility on the women and going soft on the men:

- All we hear about is Lily working too hard and not paying enough attention to Tom

- Sonia needs to move back in and not give up, meanwhile Nick is just golden

- Heather is too rigid/threw in the towel too quick, Derek is just the hopeless romantic who wants to keep trying

Why is there this incredible bias????  Any guesses??

In terms of Derek, the only time we've EVER heard any reference to his temper is when his so-called friend mentioned it. Wonder why none of the "experts" ever brought this up????

[LennieBriscoe]

By my observation of her talking with Tom's mother (who herself seems quite the free spirit, if sitting posture is any indication), Lily is gaining weight.

[holly4755]

Well when I hurt my shoulder, the doctor gave me steroids to help it for a while.  Steroids usually cause weight gain. But it could be other things.  Just wanted to add that. 

[Snarklepuss]

On 10/14/2016 at 10:48 PM, ChristmasJones said:

Yes, it is very concerning to me that we have never once seen an expert truly question Nick about what he said during that outburst. They seem to easily write it off as him feeling stressed, or being slightly drunk, or both.

There really is a strong bias on this show for putting the blame/responsibility on the women and going soft on the men:

- All we hear about is Lily working too hard and not paying enough attention to Tom

- Sonia needs to move back in and not give up, meanwhile Nick is just golden

- Heather is too rigid/threw in the towel too quick, Derek is just the hopeless romantic who wants to keep trying

Why is there this incredible bias????  Any guesses??

I brought this up myself earlier this season and in seasons past too.  Although last season 2 of the women (Ashley and Sam) were the problem in the relationship.  The show didn't make them look great but it also didn't attempt to make the men look bad either .  I think the show tried to make Vanessa look needy and demanding leaving the public to put the blame on her, meanwhile Tres was all about appearances and never was really serious about being married to her.  Same was true about Davina.  She was made to look too picky and demanding when the truth was that Sean was just an asshole and not into being married whatsoever.  The only reason I can think of for this bias is that it is the show's bias. 

[Kira53]

On 10/12/2016 at 10:31 AM, Jellybeans said:

Lilly and Tom- well, I see nothing wrong with not bringing work home.  I would rather make less money and have more time for enjoyable pursuits but that's because I am older, have had multiple losses in my family and know what is important.  I also understand those who do not feel the same way.  It is difficult for Realtors to have set hours but you can let some calls go to voice mail.  

When you're in your own business and want to build your business you really should pick up the phone whenever you can.  Realtors are a dime a dozen and people aren't going to necessarily wait when they can get in touch with some one else.  You never know when a new client might be calling but when you call them back the next day they might be working with someone else.  It's not like being one of the top surgeons in a specialized field - clients wait for you to be available.  I'm sure she is trying to court high end clients and the don't like waiting and like to be catered to - just like Tom.  I admire her hustle.

On 10/12/2016 at 3:09 PM, lilsadone said:

Laughing so hard at Heather with her friend telling her all her negative traits.  Instead of Heather owning it and saying there are things that she should be working on to be more approachable -- she was like "I'm just going to keep loving who I am" or something like that. LOL - that's why you can't find anyone to be with! You're not great "as is," you NEED to work on yourself. 

Heather's friend really seemed to know her.  Wow she was direct.

[Blissfool]

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Tom's mother (who herself seems quite the free spirit, if sitting posture is any indication)

Now we know where Tom gets his free spiritedness.

Did you also notice she was barefoot?Tom....dirty feet....need I say more?

[LennieBriscoe]

Heads-up for the next episode:

I think it might be better to watch on A&E, as there's a 15-minute preview at the end (episode begins at 8:45 p.m. ET), unlike on the FYI channel.