Sex And The City - General Discussion

[BlueMoon81]

On 9/30/2019 at 1:33 PM, RealHousewife said:

I’m curious what the big Samantha fans think of her behavior in that episode. Samantha was a sexy, single woman, and I like that she enjoyed it. But I would be horrified if I saw a blow job happening at work or walked in on my friend giving one somewhere else. I don’t remember what Carrie said when she walked in on the blow job. I wouldn’t ever shame my friend for being sexual and having fun, but I sure as heck would freak out and immediately leave if I walked in anything. There are some things I don’t need to see. 

Carrie not wanting to see it was one thing (that was understandable)....the hypocritical, self-righteous judgment of Sam in the days following the BJ were NOT. Sam NEVER judged Carrie, not when Carrie admitted to an affair with a MARRIED Big (while she was in a relationship with a guy who treated her amazingly in Aiden), NOT when she wanted to jet off to Paris with a man in Alexander Petrovsky who wanted different things than her, NOT when Carrie was “dating” Ray, and not even when Carrie’s beau was bisexual (Carrie was the one who was disgustingly judging him, not Sam). yet Carrie has to pretend she has some kind of moral authority to judge Samantha’s sexual behavior at the first opportunity...gimme a break 

[BlueMoon81]

On 9/30/2019 at 5:05 AM, Harvey said:

You have to remember, mental health and shrinks were a lot more stigmatized back then than they are today. Carrie didn't mean anything bad by her comment, if you watched the show it was obvious Miranda had a lot of unresolved anger issues towards the opposite sex.

Just one example is her inability to say "I love you" to anyone until the final season.

Actually, it wasn’t. That episode aired in, what 1999-2000?? You had Tony Soprano regularly seeing his therapist on the Sopranos at the same time, and you had  police procedural dramas like Law and Order SVU that regularly utilized therapist and psychiatrist characters. And as others have mentioned, among society in NYC, it was as Stanford said “this is New York, even the shrinks have shrinks.” 

It was just another case of Carrie being a self-righteous, judgmental, wholly idiotic adolescent school girl. Miranda should’ve cussed her out or backslapped the taste out of Carrie’s mouth 

[RealHousewife]

18 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

Carrie not wanting to see it was one thing (that was understandable)....the hypocritical, self-righteous judgment of Sam in the days following the BJ were NOT. Sam NEVER judged Carrie, not when Carrie admitted to an affair with a MARRIED Big (while she was in a relationship with a guy who treated her amazingly in Aiden), NOT when she wanted to jet off to Paris with a man in Alexander Petrovsky who wanted different things than her, NOT when Carrie was “dating” Ray, and not even when Carrie’s beau was bisexual (Carrie was the one who was disgustingly judging him, not Sam). yet Carrie has to pretend she has some kind of moral authority to judge Samantha’s sexual behavior at the first opportunity...gimme a break 

I posted that I do not remember what judgmental comments Carrie made. I just remember her shock at what she saw, which I find understandable. 

My favorite quality of Sam was how she didn't judge her friends. I remember when she sweetly said it wasn't her style. :)

I still think some of Samantha's behavior was extremely inappropriate. I guess more people are put off by Carrie's behavior than Samantha's. To each his own. 

[piccadilly83]

On 9/29/2019 at 11:13 PM, BlueMoon81 said:

As you stated, Carrie was a terrible friend most of the time and was NEVER called out for it. I thought Miranda should’ve either cursed Carrie out or decked her in the jaw for Carrie’s childish, snide comments about Miranda going to therapy in Season 2....”I get why you go to therapy because...you’re, you know, always in your head. But I’m fine, I’m functioning.” That was nauseating to watch, and very condescending

I didn't think Carrie was a terrible friend.  There's really only one episode where I think Carrie was out of her mind and went over the line is when she tried to guilt Charlotte into paying her apartment expenses because Charlotte had managed to keep her expensive wedding ring after the divorce. The gall. Overall though I saw Carrie as a very good friend.

The episode you mention here where Carrie makes a remark about Miranda going to therapy was funny to me.  I honestly wouldn't want to be friends with someone who could not either joke with me or keep it real as it were. I've had people say the same thing to me, and they weren't wrong. Miranda is always in her head over-analyzing things. I think that scene was also used to demonstrate how much denial Carrie was in for her own need of therapy. 

On 9/30/2019 at 8:43 AM, blondiec0332 said:

It was a very judgmental thing to say and not the first time Carrie was judgmental.  She judged Samantha for giving a blow job to the delivery driver.   Miranda recognized her flaws and wanted to work on them.  Carrie when she went to therapy didn't treat it as a way to help herself.

I didn't think Carrie was judging Sam for giving a blow job to the delivery driver. I think she was more shocked that Sam would do that in her office and not lock the door.  I can't blame her for that. I felt the same way. 

On 10/2/2019 at 10:22 PM, BlueMoon81 said:

Carrie not wanting to see it was one thing (that was understandable)....the hypocritical, self-righteous judgment of Sam in the days following the BJ were NOT. Sam NEVER judged Carrie, not when Carrie admitted to an affair with a MARRIED Big (while she was in a relationship with a guy who treated her amazingly in Aiden), NOT when she wanted to jet off to Paris with a man in Alexander Petrovsky who wanted different things than her, NOT when Carrie was “dating” Ray, and not even when Carrie’s beau was bisexual (Carrie was the one who was disgustingly judging him, not Sam). yet Carrie has to pretend she has some kind of moral authority to judge Samantha’s sexual behavior at the first opportunity...gimme a break 

Sam really couldn't judge Carrie in any of those situations though, could she? I mean Sam judging one of her friends for having an affair with a married man? How would that even begin to make sense? I will agree though that Sam was a great friend.  I thought she could be a bit selfish at times with her need to be sexually provocative at all times, no matter who was in the room or what the cost, but overall her support for Carrie and the other girls was great.

I'm wondering how people feel about Miranda? If anyone came off as judgy to me during that series it was both Miranda and Charlotte. Charlotte's judgments were pretty much restricted to sex, but Miranda judged Carrie's decisions a lot. In the quote above, I believe Miranda was the one who judged Carrie for jetting off to Paris to follow Petrovsky and I know she was super critical of Carrie's relationship with Big multiple times. Aside from that, I'm pretty sure Miranda met Carrie blow for blow when it came to snarking on other people's sex practices, their friends' included. Personally, I didn't mind Miranda's opinions on Carrie's behaviors because it came out of place of love and concern, but I felt the same way about all of the women's criticisms of each other.

Edited October 6, 2019 by piccadilly83

[RealHousewife]

23 hours ago, piccadilly83 said:

I didn't think Carrie was a terrible friend.  There's really only one episode where I think Carrie was out of her mind and went over the line is when she tried to guilt Charlotte into paying her apartment expenses because Charlotte had managed to keep her expensive wedding ring after the divorce. The gall. Overall though I saw Carrie as a very good friend.

The episode you mention here where Carrie makes a remark about Miranda going to therapy was funny to me.  I honestly wouldn't want to be friends with someone who could not either joke with me or keep it real as it were. I've had people say the same thing to me, and they weren't wrong. Miranda is always in her head over-analyzing things. I think that scene was also used to demonstrate how much denial Carrie was in for her own need of therapy. 

I didn't think Carrie was judging Sam for giving a blow job to the delivery driver. I think she was more shocked that Sam would do that in her office and not lock the door.  I can't blame her for that. I felt the same way. 

Sam really couldn't judge Carrie in any of those situations though, could she? I mean Sam judging one of her friends for having an affair with a married man? How would that even begin to make sense? I will agree though that Sam was a great friend.  I thought she could be a bit selfish at times with her need to be sexually provocative at all times, no matter who was in the room or what the cost, but overall her support for Carrie and the other girls was great.

I'm wondering how people feel about Miranda? If anyone came off as judgy to me during that series it was both Miranda and Charlotte. Charlotte's judgments were pretty much restricted to sex, but Miranda judged Carrie's decisions a lot. In the quote above, I believe Miranda was the one who judged Carrie for jetting off to Paris to follow Petrovsky and I know she was super critical of Carrie's relationship with Big multiple times. Aside from that, I'm pretty sure Miranda met Carrie blow for blow when it came to snarking on other people's sex practices, their friends' included. Personally, I didn't mind Miranda's opinions on Carrie's behaviors because it came out of place of love and concern, but I felt the same way about all of the women's criticisms of each other.

Absolutely love this post.

I agree that Carrie trying to guilt Charlotte was one of her worst moments. 

I’m pretty sure Samantha messed with married men, but I didn’t mention it in my post in case I’m wrong. There’s so much Carrie criticism here but very little of other characters I start questioning my memory. 

I agree with you about both the women. I think both Carrie and Samantha were good friends most of the time, but they each had some bad moments. That’s also all I remember about the blow job. I don’t remember Carrie caring that Samantha was fooling around, just the way she went about it. I think it was the same episode where Sam is at dinner, and this man starts servicing her friend at the table. I thought we got the message that Samantha now realized how Carrie felt-shocked and uncomfortable with how indiscreet someone was.

Yeah Miranda could be pretty abrasive when judging at times. But I know it was often tough love.

[Harvey]

2 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Absolutely love this post.

I’m pretty sure Samantha messed with married men, but I didn’t mention it in my post in case I’m wrong. There’s so much Carrie criticism here but very little of other characters I start questioning my memory. 

In season 1 episode 8 Samantha sleeps with a married man multiple times and actually brags about it to her friends, saying it's the perfect no strings attached arrangement. But she ends the affair when the wife wants to join her and the husband in bed.

[RealHousewife]

4 minutes ago, Harvey said:

In season 1 episode 8 Samantha sleeps with a married man multiple times and actually brags about it to her friends, saying it's the perfect no strings attached arrangement. But she ends the affair when the wife wants to join her and the husband in bed.

Yes! The wife calls her, and Samantha decided at that point to end the relationship. 

[andromeda331]

Isn't there another episode where Samantha gets ostracized or something by women because she slept with their husbands? In the end she gets saved by Leo DiCaprio. 

[RealHousewife]

8 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Isn't there another episode where Samantha gets ostracized or something by women because she slept with their husbands? In the end she gets saved by Leo DiCaprio. 

Oh yeah I remember the ladies were at some event, and Samantha had slept with  a ton of the men there. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

I think it was the same episode where Sam is at dinner, and this man starts servicing her friend at the table. I thought we got the message that Samantha now realized how Carrie felt-shocked and uncomfortable with how indiscreet someone was.

Those were two different episodes. Samantha realizing Carrie was right (which Carrie always had to be...sigh) was when Samantha later walked in on Stanford getting a BJ from his then boyfriend.

Quote

Isn't there another episode where Samantha gets ostracized or something by women because she slept with their husbands? In the end she gets saved by Leo DiCaprio. 

Originally, JFK Jr.

[RealHousewife]

3 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Those were two different episodes. Samantha realizing Carrie was right (which Carrie always had to be...sigh) was when Samantha later walked in on Stanford getting a BJ from his then boyfriend.

Originally, JFK Jr.

Oh that’s right. It was the episode where the issue is with Charlotte. Charlotte became Samantha. 

[blondiec0332]

There is much to criticize about all the women but for me it seemed Miranda Samantha and Charlotte were presented as having flaws and we were supposed to see them as flaws. With Carrie where I saw flaws it seemed the writers saw charming qualities. When Natasha caught Carrie in her apartment, chased her and fell and broke a tooth. Carrie rode with her to the hospital and I guess we were supposed to think she did a good thing. When I originally watched the show I took each episode for what it was.  But after many re watches I look at the series as a whole story and let me tell you Carrie lost a lot of her appeal to me.

Edited October 8, 2019 by blondiec0332

[piccadilly83]

7 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

There is much to criticize about all the women but for me it seemed Miranda Samantha and Charlotte were presented as having flaws and we were supposed to see them as flaws. With Carrie where I saw flaws it seemed the writers saw charming qualities. When Natasha caught Carrie in her apartment, chased her and fell and broke a tooth. Carrie rode with her to the hospital and I guess we were supposed to think she did a good thing. When I originally watched the show I took each episode for what it was.  But after many re watches I look at the series as a whole story and let me tell you Carrie lost a lot of her appeal to me.

I saw Carrie taking Natasha to the hospital as necessary, not endearing. I mean she has just been caught red-handed cheating with Natasha's husband, and as a consequence, ends up not only emotionally wounding Natasha, but physically wounding her as well, intentional or not.  I didn't give Carrie credit for getting Natasha the taxi, I just would have taken off ALL sorts of credit if she hadn't.  Also, I felt the show did a great job of showing how wrong Carrie and Big were to have their affair. Natasha literally falls down the stairs smack dab face first onto what seems to be a marble or granite floor while trying to confront a half-dressed, post-coitus, Carrie about the affair and her presence in Natasha's home. If the emotional cost for Big's wife was too remote or insignificant for the audience to acknowledge because Natasha was a side character, then the up-close immediate physical cost could not be. Carrie and Big were completely selfish when they decided to have their affair, and I didn't see the show as saying anything less.

ETA:

All of that however doesn't mean I didn't have sympathy for Carrie when she carried on her affair with Big. I know a lot of people like to write people off who have affairs. I'm not that kind of person. I can understand the allure ... doesn't mean I won't cut your dick off if you cheat on me, but I understand that as humans we all have flaws and will at times make poor decisions. I think the writers were trying to show the same thing with respect to Carrie's affair with Big.

Edited October 8, 2019 by piccadilly83

[RealHousewife]

53 minutes ago, piccadilly83 said:

I saw Carrie taking Natasha to the hospital as necessary, not endearing. I mean she has just been caught red-handed cheating with Natasha's husband, and as a consequence, ends up not only emotionally wounding Natasha, but physically wounding her as well, intentional or not.  I didn't give Carrie credit for getting Natasha the taxi, I just would have taken off ALL sorts of credit if she hadn't.  Also, I felt the show did a great job of showing how wrong Carrie and Big were to have their affair. Natasha literally falls down the stairs smack dab face first onto what seems to be a marble or granite floor while trying to confront a half-dressed, post-coitus, Carrie about the affair and her presence in Natasha's home. If the emotional cost for Big's wife was too remote or insignificant for the audience to acknowledge because Natasha was a side character, then the up-close immediate physical cost could not be. Carrie and Big were completely selfish when they decided to have their affair, and I didn't see the show as saying anything less.

ETA:

All of that however doesn't mean I didn't have sympathy for Carrie when she carried on her affair with Big. I know a lot of people like to write people off who have affairs. I'm not that kind of person. I can understand the allure ... doesn't mean I won't cut your dick off if you cheat on me, but I understand that as humans we all have flaws and will at times make poor decisions. I think the writers were trying to show the same thing with respect to Carrie's affair with Big.

Agree. I never thought "oh what a great girl Carrie is taking Natasha to the hospital." 

ITA about having some sympathy for Carrie. I've never had an affair, but I totally understand good people do bad things. I generally don't like people being defined by their worst moments. I feel more for Carrie sleeping with someone she was in love with than I do for someone like Samantha who just wanted to get her jollies on.

[piccadilly83]

So a post in a different forum got me thinking about Harry and Charlotte. I'm interested in hearing what everyone thought about the women's different boyfriends during the series.

Personally, I loved Harry and Steve. If I ever got married, I hope it would be to a man like either of them. They're sweet, compassionate, supportive, and yet assertive enough to stand up for themselves. When Charlotte freaked out on Harry about setting a date and he felt she insulted his looks he was done, and when Miranda treated Steve like shit during their first date he had no problem walking the fuck away. I get all misty-eyed when I watch the scene where Harry goes to Brady's birthday party without Charlotte because he knows Miranda is her friend it's important to her, even if she, herself, wasn't emotionally strong enough to go. And although I understood every time Steve got on Miranda's nerve, I loved how much adored her and wanted to be a part of her life.

I liked Aiden, but I wouldn't want to marry someone like him.  He was too much of a doormat. The way he let Carrie walk all over him in their relationship was a bummer. I know he was just trying to be supportive and keep the peace, but I really wish he would have stood up for himself earlier on. Didn't he end up letting Big in his cabin? Was that before or after he went off on Carrie about not really wanting to get married?

Smith Jerrod was nice, but in the end, little more than play thing for Samantha. I'm not saying she didn't care about him. She clearly did, but I guess, as far as long term potential, I didn't see their relationship going the distance. The movie confirmed that with their break up. Not all relationships have to last 50 years and a partner's death to be considered a success, and I think theirs was a good example of that.

Richard. Oh, Richard. I'm going to admit something about myself that is not flattering. If I was Samantha, I would have stayed with Richard. I know, it's sad, but Richard is the sort of guy I would be incessantly attracted to, and I don't think I would be able to pull myself away from him just because he cheated. The chemistry was too good. Samantha is a better woman than me.

Finally Big. I never got Big really, or at least I never understood why Carrie was obsessed with him.  With Harry and Steve I saw good-looking, intelligent, supportive men; with Richard I saw smarmy, steamy, sexy energy; with Aiden I saw deep devotion, but with Big ...? What was the attraction to Big? I admit his money was nice. I mean anyone who could afford that sort of apartment in NYC has my attention, but overall I could never tell why Carrie was so hung up on Big. He ignored her most of the time, was moody as hell, and treated her like an afterthought. He also seemed pretty closed off. I don't know, I feel like the show did a terrible job of showing me why Big was such a great catch.

[RealHousewife]

7 hours ago, piccadilly83 said:

So a post in a different forum got me thinking about Harry and Charlotte. I'm interested in hearing what everyone thought about the women's different boyfriends during the series.

Personally, I loved Harry and Steve. If I ever got married, I hope it would be to a man like either of them. They're sweet, compassionate, supportive, and yet assertive enough to stand up for themselves. When Charlotte freaked out on Harry about setting a date and he felt she insulted his looks he was done, and when Miranda treated Steve like shit during their first date he had no problem walking the fuck away. I get all misty-eyed when I watch the scene where Harry goes to Brady's birthday party without Charlotte because he knows Miranda is her friend it's important to her, even if she, herself, wasn't emotionally strong enough to go. And although I understood every time Steve got on Miranda's nerve, I loved how much adored her and wanted to be a part of her life.

I liked Aiden, but I wouldn't want to marry someone like him.  He was too much of a doormat. The way he let Carrie walk all over him in their relationship was a bummer. I know he was just trying to be supportive and keep the peace, but I really wish he would have stood up for himself earlier on. Didn't he end up letting Big in his cabin? Was that before or after he went off on Carrie about not really wanting to get married?

Smith Jerrod was nice, but in the end, little more than play thing for Samantha. I'm not saying she didn't care about him. She clearly did, but I guess, as far as long term potential, I didn't see their relationship going the distance. The movie confirmed that with their break up. Not all relationships have to last 50 years and a partner's death to be considered a success, and I think theirs was a good example of that.

Richard. Oh, Richard. I'm going to admit something about myself that is not flattering. If I was Samantha, I would have stayed with Richard. I know, it's sad, but Richard is the sort of guy I would be incessantly attracted to, and I don't think I would be able to pull myself away from him just because he cheated. The chemistry was too good. Samantha is a better woman than me.

Finally Big. I never got Big really, or at least I never understood why Carrie was obsessed with him.  With Harry and Steve I saw good-looking, intelligent, supportive men; with Richard I saw smarmy, steamy, sexy energy; with Aiden I saw deep devotion, but with Big ...? What was the attraction to Big? I admit his money was nice. I mean anyone who could afford that sort of apartment in NYC has my attention, but overall I could never tell why Carrie was so hung up on Big. He ignored her most of the time, was moody as hell, and treated her like an afterthought. He also seemed pretty closed off. I don't know, I feel like the show did a terrible job of showing me why Big was such a great catch.

A lot of great points about Harry and Steve. They were both pretty sweet and supportive partners. 

I enjoyed Aiden for the most part though. I don’t disagree about him being a doormat, but he was a good person and crazy about Carrie. I also thought he was one of the best looking of all the men on the show, way hotter than Harry, and even Big and Steve. I’m not sure when the cabin incident occurred. Carrie had some balls with that whole fiasco. 

Smith was absolutely beautiful. I’d probably never get over how hot he is if he were mine. He was also a sweetheart. Relationships with that large of an age gap don’t typically last. So as much as I loved Smith, I get the writers ending the relationship when they did. I loved how he supported Samantha when she had cancer. He also cared about her safety even when she was with another man. He showed a mature, caring side, even with a woman so much older than him. 

Richard was a sexy guy and age appropriate for Samantha. He hurt her pretty badly, right? I think he was the first man Samantha wanted to have as more than a plaything. 

Big wasn’t my favorite, but in addition to his money, he had a lot of charisma. Otherwise, I’m in the same boat of not seeing him as this incredible guy. I like a man to really love me. Carrie also didn’t seem like a gold digger type. She liked extravagance, but I don’t remember her ever talking much about the status of the different men she dated. Charlotte was said to like “looks, money, manners.” I don’t recall Carrie being like that. We were lead to believe she made good money as a writer and spent it all on shoes.

[ByTor]

17 hours ago, piccadilly83 said:

I saw Carrie taking Natasha to the hospital as necessary, not endearing.

I loved the acting in that scene.  Bridget Moynahan did this subtle hand motion when Carrie was getting her into the cab, as if to say "OK, you got me in here, now go away!"  SJP also did a nice job, IMO, showing her guilt over the whole thing.  Thanks to the acting, this is actually one of my favorite episodes.

[piccadilly83]

4 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Big wasn’t my favorite, but in addition to his money, he had a lot of charisma. Otherwise, I’m in the same boat of not seeing him as this incredible guy. I like a man to really love me. Carrie also didn’t seem like a gold digger type. She liked extravagance, but I don’t remember her ever talking much about the status of the different men she dated. Charlotte was said to like “looks, money, manners.” I don’t recall Carrie being like that. We were lead to believe she made good money as a writer and spent it all on shoes.

That's true that Big was supposed to have charisma, I guess I just didn't see enough of it. I think I've seen more charisma from Chris Noth when he played Logan on Law & Order or Peter Florrick on The Good Wife. Maybe I need to rewatch the first couple seasons again.

Carrie definitely hooked up with guys who weren't super wealthy from time to time, but over the run of the series I think all of her serious boyfriends were well off. Big, Burger, Aiden, Petrovsky. I don't think money was supposed to be something she consciously cared about, but subconsciously I think it was probably a concern because she did spend so much time travelling in moneyed circles. Really all of the women did. 

I'm not sure how much money Carrie made from writing for the The New York Star, but it was apparently enough to afford an apartment in Manhattan in the late nineties. To be fair, it was rent controlled, but I still doubt it was cheap. Also she bought a lot of name brand clothes and shoes. In the episode where Carrie has to figure out how to pay for her renovated apartment now that Aiden is out of the picture, Miranda calculates that Carrie has spent over $40,000 in shoes; so yes, I do think we're supposed to believe that Carrie was pretty wasteful with her money.

4 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Smith was absolutely beautiful. I’d probably never get over how hot he is if he were mine. He was also a sweetheart. Relationships with that large of an age gap don’t typically last. So as much as I loved Smith, I get the writers ending the relationship when they did. I loved how he supported Samantha when she had cancer. He also cared about her safety even when she was with another man. He showed a mature, caring side, even with a woman so much older than him. 

I also agree that Smith was mature beyond his years. That episode where he waits for Samantha after he knows she cheated on him with Richard just so he could see if she was ok was so touching.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Didn’t Carrie say she paid $750 for her apartment when she was looking for a new place after her second split with Aiden? She was astonished at the asking price for a much smaller place above an Indian takeout restaurant. 
 

I currently pay more than Carrie did for a much smaller place in the suburbs. Granted it’s 2019, but even in 2002 I think expecting a Manhattan apartment that could fit a desk and a bed for under $1,000 was laughable. 

[Harvey]

4 hours ago, piccadilly83 said:

Carrie definitely hooked up with guys who weren't super wealthy from time to time, but over the run of the series I think all of her serious boyfriends were well off. Big, Burger, Aiden, Petrovsky. I don't think money was supposed to be something she consciously cared about, but subconsciously I think it was probably a concern because she did spend so much time travelling in moneyed circles. Really all of the women did. 

Berger was not well-off at all. In fact, the entire reason their relationship went downhill was that Berger was a failure as a writer and couldn't handle Carrie doing so much better than him and then that brought out his insecure side. He then became ultra sensitive to the smallest of criticisms even when Carrie said something only as an off-handed joke.

I always laugh when someone says Carrie was into Big because of his money (or that she was a gold digger in general) because it is so obviously not true. Those people simply just need a re-watch because they clearly did not understand Carrie's personality.

Also, Aiden. Carrie had no idea AT ALL about Aiden's financial state, it never came up. (and why would it, it is not something you ask). She was surprised when Aiden mentioned that he was able to afford buying the place next to Carrie's to extend her apartment. So no, the fact is Carrrie was not thinking about money when choosing her men. And if someone thinks otherwise, they have not been paying attention.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Harvey

[piccadilly83]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Berger was not well-off at all. In fact, the entire reason their relationship went downhill was that Berger was a failure as a writer and couldn't handle Carrie doing so much better than him and then that brought out his insecure side. He then became ultra sensitive to the smallest of criticisms even when Carrie said something only as an off-handed joke.

I always laugh when someone says Carrie was into Big because of his money (or that she was a gold digger in general) because it is so obviously not true. Those people simply just need a re-watch because they clearly did not understand Carrie's personality.

Also, Aiden. Carrie had no idea AT ALL about Aiden's financial state, it never came up. (and why would it, it is not something you ask). She was surprised when Aiden mentioned that he was able to afford buying the place next to Carrie's to extend her apartment. So no, the fact is Carrrie was not thinking about money when choosing her men. And if someone thinks otherwise, they have not been paying attention

Please do not assume I was not paying attention to the show just because we disagree about Carrie.  Berger was well off, he had family money. Aiden also owned his own store and was able to afford a cabin in the woods. I never said Carrie was a gold-digger, just that on some level her long term potential love interest's financial situations mattered to her. It's not that Carrie wouldn't date poor men, I even mentioned that she did. She just preferred being with financially well-off men. That's true for most people I know. If she really wanted to just meet some nice guys who could take care of her in all other ways but financial, she could have bothered to look in more places than the high end parties, exclusive night clubs, and whatever other VIP events she was invited to.  Even when she met characters outside of those events, they were usually well off.  The few times she was with a guy who was not well off it failed pretty quickly. I'm not saying it only didn't work out with them because of their money. One of the few poor (and really, that's a relative term) guys I can think of Carrie hooking up with was some hot younger guy she met at a club she went to after she was pissed with dealing with Big. She had a fun time with him, but then realized he was way too young, immature, and unfocused in his life for her to take him seriously.  Basically, she woke up, saw that his place was a mess, and super cramped, and he had a roommate.  I think her disinterest in him had as much to do with the messiness of his apartment as they fact that he was living like an aimless 20 year old and she knew she was done with that part of her life. She was gone after one night.

Aside from the hot club/waiter/druggie guy, other potentially "poor" significant others were David Duchovny's character, Daniel Sunjata's character, and the politician. David Duchovny's character was her childhood sweetheart, so she already had an emotional pull towards him because of that. Daniel Sunjata played the seaman during Fleet Week. Instead of having sex with him though, she spends the night alone. That's cool, she liked him, but realized she wasn't interested for reasons I can't remember. The bigger issue though is that she never went into Fleet Week expecting to find a husband. She always just wanted a one night stand. None of these working class guys were on her radar as someone to start a serious relationship with. That could just be because they were there one night, but it's not like she was hitting up any military balls to meet petty officers in her free time either. The politician may have been poor, but I doubt it.  He dressed well and that actor almost always plays well off characters, plus he was (I believe) a successful politician in New York, which meant he had power and could travel in the right circles as well. Jon Bon Jovi also guess starred, but I don't remember anything about his character.

She delighted being in the company of men who had wealth and/or power. That doesn't mean she would sell her soul to the devil to marry a wealthy man, or that she was determined to marry any old wealthy man. It was clear she wanted to be with someone she loved as well, I just think on a subconscious level, her partner's financial and social standing mattered to her too.

Edited October 10, 2019 by piccadilly83

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/30/2019 at 5:05 AM, Harvey said:

You have to remember, mental health and shrinks were a lot more stigmatized back then than they are today. Carrie didn't mean anything bad by her comment, if you watched the show it was obvious Miranda had a lot of unresolved anger issues towards the opposite sex.

Just one example is her inability to say "I love you" to anyone until the final season.

Hugely disagree.  It was 90's Manhattan among the bourgeousie.  Carrie was dating a Trump Wannabe.  They were very privileged people.  Her best friend Stanford was seeing Gwyneth Paltrow's therapist and recommended her.  Carrie really thinks she's above it all while all of her friends, and known celebrities, were obviously in therapy.  Her comment towards Miranda was uber judgemental.  

On 9/30/2019 at 10:01 AM, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Stigmatized in the greater world, sure. But therapy was de rigeur for the Manhattan elite, as Stanford pointed out a scene later. As cringeworthy as the idea of mental health being “trendy” is, it kind of was (and still is, in a different way) among the intelligentsia. So, like bisexuality, polyamory, and a host of other subjects, it’s something Carrie should’ve had a more enlightened view on. 

Also, as others have said, it’s RICH for Carrie to think she’s too stable for therapy. Her entire career is built on the idea that her relationships are so unstable that they’re an endless gold mine of story ideas. 

Totally agree.  Wrote my post before I saw yours.

On 9/30/2019 at 1:42 PM, txhorns79 said:

I tend to think at some point Samantha became a sex cartoon.  In the episode where she was blowing the guy in her office, Carrie walks in, sees what is happening and then quickly stumbles out.  Later on, Carrie is judgey about the situation, but I did kind of think that Samantha might benefit from being more discreet and having some self-control. 

The thing was, it was her own office, and I assume the door was closed.  Does anyone remember?  That's why I wouldn't judge.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/9/2019 at 8:25 PM, piccadilly83 said:

Please do not assume I was not paying attention to the show just because we disagree about Carrie.  Berger was well off, he had family money.

Yeah, didn't have have a place in Manhattan and ALSO in the Hamptons?  I agree, I thought Berger was well off.  His writing career wasn't what he wanted it to be, but he had money.

On 10/9/2019 at 6:59 PM, Harvey said:

Also, Aiden. Carrie had no idea AT ALL about Aiden's financial state, it never came up. (and why would it, it is not something you ask). She was surprised when Aiden mentioned that he was able to afford buying the place next to Carrie's to extend her apartment. So no, the fact is Carrrie was not thinking about money when choosing her men. And if someone thinks otherwise, they have not been paying attention.

Carrie met Aidan knowing that he was a successful furniture designer with his own business.  Stanford found him because an article was written about him.  He was doing well on Day 1 and Carrie knew it.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/9/2019 at 6:59 PM, Harvey said:

I always laugh when someone says Carrie was into Big because of his money (or that she was a gold digger in general) because it is so obviously not true. Those people simply just need a re-watch because they clearly did not understand Carrie's personality.

Big and Carrie ran into each other on the street, then the next time Carrie saw Big, Sam informed her that he's the next Donald Trump.  Everyone knew he was rich.  He had his own personal driver.  This is all in the pilot.  I don't think it can be proven that the money/status did not attract her.  Candace Bushnell was writing about herself and her own relationship, which mirrored Carrie/Big.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[ByTor]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yeah, didn't have have a place in Manhattan and ALSO in the Hamptons?  I agree, I thought Berger was well off.  His writing career wasn't what he wanted it to be, but he had money.

I don't know what we were supposed to think about him.  I thought he had that place in the Hamptons, so yeah, money.  But then he got sticker shock at Prada, so I guess we weren't supposed to think he had money?  But to be fair, I know people with plenty of money who think the price of designer clothing is insane.

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Big and Carrie ran into each other on the street, then the next time Carrie saw Big, Sam informed her that he's the next Donald Trump. 

I saw that as Carrie being attracted to Big without knowing he had money, and since it was the pilot Sam made the "next Donald Trump" comment to establish his character.  I don't think we could prove whether or not the money attracted her at that time, but in the 1st movie she sure as hell loved that closet!

[Ms Blue Jay]

Berger was a writer who seemed not into the superficial, so I found it realistic that he would be shocked that a Prada shirt costs $3000.

Also, Big was really well dressed when Carrie first met him - but I agree she didn't know he was Donald Trump #2 until the second meeting.  But that led to a 6 year obsession.  Let's say Big was poor or unknown, maybe they'd have a fling but I don't think the 6 year obsession.  I definitely think his power and status contributed to it.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[chitowngirl]

7 hours ago, ByTor said:

I don't know what we were supposed to think about him.  I thought he had that place in the Hamptons, so yeah, money.  But then he got sticker shock at Prada, so I guess we weren't supposed to think he had money?  But to be fair, I know people with plenty of money who think the price of designer clothing is insane.

I saw that as Carrie being attracted to Big without knowing he had money, and since it was the pilot Sam made the "next Donald Trump" comment to establish his character.  I don't think we could prove whether or not the money attracted her at that time, but in the 1st movie she sure as hell loved that closet!

Well, who wouldn’t love that closet! I always wondered what room was sacrificed for it? A bedroom, maid’s room?

[blondiec0332]

7 hours ago, ByTor said:

I don't know what we were supposed to think about him.  I thought he had that place in the Hamptons, so yeah, money.  But then he got sticker shock at Prada, so I guess we weren't supposed to think he had money?  But to be fair, I know people with plenty of money who think the price of designer clothing is insane.

He was a published author with at least one book so he probably made money from that.  Carrie's editor told her they didn't pick up the option for Berger's next book so he might have had to start planning for a future without a steady income coming in.  By that point Carrie was making  money from her book.  

I never would have called Carrie a gold digger but there was no way she was ever going to end up with a guy who was struggling financially. Carrie liked nice things and liked going to nice places.  She had no problem supporting  herself (or at least until she needed to buy her apartment) but I doubt she would have wanted to support a man.

[Hiyo]

Carrie may or may not have been a gold digger, be she was definitively an entitled idiot when it came to money.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Folks,

1) Discuss the show, not each other.  Let's agree or disagree respectfully. (Most of this discussion is; let's keep going that way).

2) Let's not assign characteristics to characters based on sexuality unless you are discussing how various sexualities are represented on the show. 

[txhorns79]

I did a kind of mini-rewatch of the last couple seasons of the show, and I'll say this again and again:  Carrie looks stunning in that layered ruffled dress that she wore in her hotel room when Petrofsky stood her up.  So many of her later season outfits are terrible, but she looks incredible there. 

[BlueMoon81]

On 10/6/2019 at 1:50 PM, piccadilly83 said:

I didn't think Carrie was a terrible friend.  There's really only one episode where I think Carrie was out of her mind and went over the line is when she tried to guilt Charlotte into paying her apartment expenses because Charlotte had managed to keep her expensive wedding ring after the divorce. The gall. Overall though I saw Carrie as a very good friend.

The episode you mention here where Carrie makes a remark about Miranda going to therapy was funny to me.  I honestly wouldn't want to be friends with someone who could not either joke with me or keep it real as it were. I've had people say the same thing to me, and they weren't wrong. Miranda is always in her head over-analyzing things. I think that scene was also used to demonstrate how much denial Carrie was in for her own need of therapy. 

I didn't think Carrie was judging Sam for giving a blow job to the delivery driver. I think she was more shocked that Sam would do that in her office and not lock the door.  I can't blame her for that. I felt the same way. 

Sam really couldn't judge Carrie in any of those situations though, could she? I mean Sam judging one of her friends for having an affair with a married man? How would that even begin to make sense? I will agree though that Sam was a great friend.  I thought she could be a bit selfish at times with her need to be sexually provocative at all times, no matter who was in the room or what the cost, but overall her support for Carrie and the other girls was great.

I'm wondering how people feel about Miranda? If anyone came off as judgy to me during that series it was both Miranda and Charlotte. Charlotte's judgments were pretty much restricted to sex, but Miranda judged Carrie's decisions a lot. In the quote above, I believe Miranda was the one who judged Carrie for jetting off to Paris to follow Petrovsky and I know she was super critical of Carrie's relationship with Big multiple times. Aside from that, I'm pretty sure Miranda met Carrie blow for blow when it came to snarking on other people's sex practices, their friends' included. Personally, I didn't mind Miranda's opinions on Carrie's behaviors because it came out of place of love and concern, but I felt the same way about all of the women's criticisms of each other.

As for Carrie, that crack about Miranda wasn’t some mutual, lighthearted joke that both laughed at—it was a catty, snarky dig so that Carrie could prove that she was “to evolved” to need therapy, and Miranda wasn’t. She was CONSTANTLY making adolescent, school-girl cracks like that at all the women, especially after S1. Carrie in my opinion was EASILY the worst friend of the group, and I truly never understood why any of the other characters were friends with her to begin with

As far as Carrie/Sam and the blow job that Carrie walked in on—it doesn’t matter if Carrie herself wouldn’t have engaged in that behavior, that isn’t the point. The point is that Carrie had ZERO right to judge Sam for it, especially since Sam never judged her in return—whether it was Carrie having the affair with a married Big (including cheating on Aidan to hook up with Big all over town), Carrie dating the alcoholic (whom she caused to relapse), Carrie feeling like she was allergic to marriage when Aidan asked her, Carrie thinking she was pregnant by Big in Season 1....Sam NEVER judged. Yet Carrie was constantly judging Sam (when she wanted to get back with Richard in Season 5, when Sam had a botched chemical peel and Carrie badgered Sam into coming to her book release party and then mocked her appearance, when Sam revealed she was dating Maria in Season 4 (that ugly convo Carrie/Charlotte/Miranda had on the walk home from the restaurant), etc)

Edited October 15, 2019 by BlueMoon81

[blondiec0332]

Quote

20 HOURS AGO, BLUEMOON81 SAID:

As for Carrie, that crack about Miranda wasn’t some mutual, lighthearted joke that both laughed at—it was a catty, snarky dig so that Carrie could prove that she was “to evolved” to need therapy, and Miranda wasn’t. She was CONSTANTLY making adolescent, school-girl cracks like that at all the women, especially after S1. Carrie in my opinion was EASILY the worst friend of the group, and I truly never understood why any of the other characters were friends with her to begin with

Carrie seemed so much more immature than the others.  Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte were all professional women who took their jobs seriously. I never got the impression Carrie took her job seriously. She seemed content to use her life and her friend's lives as her reason to write her column. She only started writing for Vogue because she needed the money. The book offer came to her, she didn't seek it out. The woman was in her 30s and had a job that could have vanished in a quick second.  She had very little savings and when faced with a huge expense (buying her apartment) she was unable to do so without help from a friend.

[Hiyo]

Quote

she was unable to do so without help from a friend.

That she had to browbeat and shame into doing so.

[txhorns79]

Quote

 The woman was in her 30s and had a job that could have vanished in a quick second.

Does anyone have a job that can't vanish in a quick second?  I mean, from everything we saw, Carrie's column was a draw for her newspaper and there was no suggestion from her boss that she was ever on the verge of losing it because of poor performance.  I never had the impression that her position was somehow less stable than that of any of the other women.   

[ByTor]

11 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Does anyone have a job that can't vanish in a quick second? 

Nope!  Samantha was successful, but all she had to do was lost clients to competition and she'd be in trouble.  I'd say Miranda as partner in a law firm would be safest.

[RealHousewife]

Has Sarah ever talked about Carrie’s flaws or how similar/different she is to the character? 

Cynthia is a bright, hardworking woman much like Miranda. I could totally see Miranda as an activist/politician.

Kim is very confident in her looks and body like Samantha, but I think she’s said she’s shyer and different from the character otherwise.

Kristin wasn’t at all consumed with getting married and having the picture perfect life. Acting was her focus, but she did end up adopting like Charlotte. 

[txhorns79]

I was watching the episode from Season 1 where Miranda's colleague mistakenly tries to fix her up with a woman, and I just realized how weird a storyline this actually was.  Miranda's boss wrongly assumes that Miranda and the woman are a couple and invites them to dinner.  Miranda accepts the invitation because this was the first time her boss had really acknowledged her, and then later confesses to her boss that she isn't actually a lesbian, which he is upset about mostly because he apparently needed a lesbian couple to win at Go Fish, err...for their dinner parties.  I don't know that we ever find out what the woman who is acting as Miranda's girlfriend thinks of any of this, whether it bothers her or why she would choose to go along with the deception.         

[Hiyo]

Probably for the same reason Miranda did. "Hey, the boss noticed me, finally!"

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Syd, Miranda’s S1 date, didn’t work for the firm. She was presumably a friend of the colleague who thought single=gay. 
 

Miranda was pretty clear that she was straight, but they got along. Hell, if my straight friend asked me to be her girlfriend for the evening at a dinner party, I’d say yes simply to amuse myself while scarfing some free food and drinks. But that’s me. 

[txhorns79]

2 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Miranda was pretty clear that she was straight, but they got along. Hell, if my straight friend asked me to be her girlfriend for the evening at a dinner party, I’d say yes simply to amuse myself while scarfing some free food and drinks. But that’s me. 

Maybe it just made more sense in 1998.  It just seemed odd to me that this woman just goes along with a fake date with someone she just met for no real reason.  Then Miranda randomly kisses her at the end!   

[Hiyo]

Quote

Syd, Miranda’s S1 date, didn’t work for the firm.

I thought it was a softball game organized by the firm for it's employees?

[libgirl2]

On 10/9/2019 at 1:05 AM, piccadilly83 said:

So a post in a different forum got me thinking about Harry and Charlotte. I'm interested in hearing what everyone thought about the women's different boyfriends during the series.

Personally, I loved Harry and Steve. If I ever got married, I hope it would be to a man like either of them. They're sweet, compassionate, supportive, and yet assertive enough to stand up for themselves. When Charlotte freaked out on Harry about setting a date and he felt she insulted his looks he was done, and when Miranda treated Steve like shit during their first date he had no problem walking the fuck away. I get all misty-eyed when I watch the scene where Harry goes to Brady's birthday party without Charlotte because he knows Miranda is her friend it's important to her, even if she, herself, wasn't emotionally strong enough to go. And although I understood every time Steve got on Miranda's nerve, I loved how much adored her and wanted to be a part of her life.

I liked Aiden, but I wouldn't want to marry someone like him.  He was too much of a doormat. The way he let Carrie walk all over him in their relationship was a bummer. I know he was just trying to be supportive and keep the peace, but I really wish he would have stood up for himself earlier on. Didn't he end up letting Big in his cabin? Was that before or after he went off on Carrie about not really wanting to get married?

Smith Jerrod was nice, but in the end, little more than play thing for Samantha. I'm not saying she didn't care about him. She clearly did, but I guess, as far as long term potential, I didn't see their relationship going the distance. The movie confirmed that with their break up. Not all relationships have to last 50 years and a partner's death to be considered a success, and I think theirs was a good example of that.

Richard. Oh, Richard. I'm going to admit something about myself that is not flattering. If I was Samantha, I would have stayed with Richard. I know, it's sad, but Richard is the sort of guy I would be incessantly attracted to, and I don't think I would be able to pull myself away from him just because he cheated. The chemistry was too good. Samantha is a better woman than me.

Finally Big. I never got Big really, or at least I never understood why Carrie was obsessed with him.  With Harry and Steve I saw good-looking, intelligent, supportive men; with Richard I saw smarmy, steamy, sexy energy; with Aiden I saw deep devotion, but with Big ...? What was the attraction to Big? I admit his money was nice. I mean anyone who could afford that sort of apartment in NYC has my attention, but overall I could never tell why Carrie was so hung up on Big. He ignored her most of the time, was moody as hell, and treated her like an afterthought. He also seemed pretty closed off. I don't know, I feel like the show did a terrible job of showing me why Big was such a great catch.

I always say my husband is like Harry. He's not flashy but he's such a good man. I had the super handsome, muscular husband in my first marriage,  he wasn't so good. My husband might be balding and have a bit of a pot belly but he adores me and treats me with respect  like Harry with Charlotte 

[WendyCR72]

On 10/9/2019 at 2:05 AM, piccadilly83 said:

Personally, I loved Harry and Steve

I love Steve, too! It's rare here. LOL! (I say this in jest and good fun, not judgment, all!) But I was glad when Miranda chose Steve over bland as hell Robert in the end. Opposites really did attract as far as Steve and Miranda went.

[Rescue Mama]

I thought I was the only one who loved Steve!  I don't understand the hate for him. 

[txhorns79]

47 minutes ago, Rescue Mama said:

I thought I was the only one who loved Steve!  I don't understand the hate for him. 

I didn't hate Steve.  There were times when I thought he was a bad fit for Miranda, and that she could do better.  For example, when he essentially was too big of an insecure macho baby to let Miranda purchase him a nice suit to attend her firm's dinner, and he ended up dumping her for her trouble.       

[RealHousewife]

37 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I didn't hate Steve.  There were times when I thought he was a bad fit for Miranda, and that she could do better.  For example, when he essentially was too big of an insecure macho baby to let Miranda purchase him a nice suit to attend her firm's dinner, and he ended up dumping her for her trouble.       

I’m glad they had almost all the characters date insecure men at some point. Women get this pressure to not be all about careers and money when looking for a man, but the truth is that so many men can’t bear for a woman to have more money/success.

[Hiyo]

I liked Steve, but there were times where he was just effing annoying.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I didn't hate Steve.  There were times when I thought he was a bad fit for Miranda, and that she could do better.  For example, when he essentially was too big of an insecure macho baby to let Miranda purchase him a nice suit to attend her firm's dinner, and he ended up dumping her for her trouble.       

Same here. I really liked the idea of Steve and Miranda then what we got. Miranda falling for a blue collar guy, a bartender and later bar owner. It sounded really interesting. I really wish they kept the Steve that read great literature. It was such a nice surprise. The way the show went back and forth on them drove me crazy. Like the episode where their happy, Miranda's happy enough that she likes doing his laundry, and the next episode suddenly she's not happy, she's sick of him and Steve acts like a child watching cartoons. As much as I love Miranda proposing to Steve and other moments. There's so many moments when Miranda seems annoyed by Steve. 

[BlueMoon81]

I liked Steve as an individual character—I thought he was a genuinely sweet and nice guy, who was caring and non-judgmental. I just thought he and Miranda as a couple were kinda forced, especially after Season 3. Miranda breaking up with him in Season 3 was wholly organic and really felt relatable—she realized that Steve wasn’t the guy for her in a romantic sense, for various reasons. As she said his suggestion of having a kid “would’ve been a temporary fix”. And she acknowledged that there was “good stuff” between them, but not enough to make it work long-term. The fact that they had her and Steve have an unplanned baby was what a poster referred to earlier in this thread as the “tied together by the red string” writing trope 

I actually loved Miranda and Robert together—CN and BU had electric chemistry, I loved seeing him doctor her through the chicken pox, watching Jules and Mimi with her, and even getting Miranda to relax enough to *gasp* take a personal day off from work. I think the writers put Steve/Miranda back together because of the whole Season 5/6 storyline of Miranda “realizing she’s in love with Steve after all”