Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
Dougal

All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

Recommended Posts

Rowan pretty much summed up my impressions. I could understand the panic and shock and reacting the way he did in the immediate aftermath, but the fact that he managed to save the duffel bag with his clothes and all the money is really convenient. I don't believe his version of what happened. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

3 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I actually disagree. I went to the Town Hall just a couple weeks ago and and asked for a new copy of my daughter’s birth certificate. I gave her name and date of birth. The clerk pulled it up, printed it out, embossed it, asked for the $10 and I was on my way. I look a good 10-15 years younger than my age and she never questioned me asking for a 21 year old’s birth certificate. I was legit, so I didn’t question it. I live in a decent sized town (about 40,000). I didn’t know the clerk. So, I guess that should’ve been harder. 

That's proof that this can still easily be done, plus keep in mind the guy did this what, 20-plus years ago? No Internet, no cell phones, no one locked their doors, we all lived in a Leave It To Beaver world. Bad things just didn't happen. Heck, some people are even like that today when interviewed on the news after a mass murder in their neighborhood: "Those things never happen here." And Whimsy did this in today's world. Imagine how easy it was a couple decades ago.

Yeah, I totally believe he got mugged by the driver who gave him a ride (the kid might even have told him he had a bunch of money and was going to ... wherever ... to begin a new life/job/school/whatever). The kid also grew up with Leave It To Beaver so trusted the driver.

Thinking back, I went to college three states away. It was common for my boyfriend to hitchhike out to see me, then hitch back home again. I would make him signs to hold to show drivers where he was headed. Try to find anyone doing that today.

I'm still split as to whether I think he's guilty (of what though?) or not. Disappearing as he did, and for so long, and being just a kid at the time is pretty amazing and took some skillz. Plus being on American's Most Wanted for so long with no sightings. Mind boggling.

It was a good episode though. This show has OD'd on husband/wife being murdered by wife/husband for insurance money and/or for cheating. That's the stuff that's common these days, and happens everywhere.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Rowan pretty much summed up my impressions. I could understand the panic and shock and reacting the way he did in the immediate aftermath, but the fact that he managed to save the duffel bag with his clothes and all the money is really convenient. I don't believe his version of what happened. 

Ya, I don't either. I was also annoyed that Keith kept referring to the girlfriend who died as sweet and innocent. She didn't deserve to die, but she went willingly and was an accomplice in stealing a plane. A frickin' plane! That would be a step or two up from stealing a car, and had she lived and they were both caught, she would have been convicted and served time right along with him. And I don't buy the young and naive argument that some might make. I am only a few years older than Diane, and I certainly knew at her age that stealing a plane and attempting to disappear without a trace would not be good idea. And a horrible thing to do to my family. 

I was surprised that such a smart guy made such a dumb mistake by lying about his age, all the while wearing a class ring that pretty much proved that he was lying. I wonder how much longer he could have escaped detection had he not confessed to the girlfriend (who's name I cannot remember). 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I was also annoyed that Keith kept referring to the girlfriend who died as sweet and innocent. She didn't deserve to die, but she went willingly and was an accomplice in stealing a plane. A frickin' plane! That would be a step or two up from stealing a car, and had she lived and they were both caught, she would have been convicted and served time right along with him. And I don't buy the young and naive argument that some might make. I am only a few years older than Diane, and I certainly knew at her age that stealing a plane and attempting to disappear without a trace would not be good idea. And a horrible thing to do to my family. 

First, all dead girls are sweet and innocent. In fact, everyone who dies becomes saint-like. Good point that she was an accomplice in stealing a plane. Did the show say why the two were running away to begin new lives somewhere else? Change identities, make their families believe they were dead? What was up with that? What was their home life like that they would do that?

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I was surprised that such a smart guy made such a dumb mistake by lying about his age, all the while wearing a class ring that pretty much proved that he was lying.

A better question is, what 44-year-old guy wears a class ring?

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I actually disagree. I went to the Town Hall just a couple weeks ago and and asked for a new copy of my daughter’s birth certificate. I gave her name and date of birth. The clerk pulled it up, printed it out, embossed it, asked for the $10 and I was on my way. I look a good 10-15 years younger than my age and she never questioned me asking for a 21 year old’s birth certificate. I was legit, so I didn’t question it. I live in a decent sized town (about 40,000). I didn’t know the clerk. So, I guess that should’ve been harder. 

In my state, anyone can request one. You do have to show your ID and fill out a form. But you just pay the fee and get it.

Share this post


Link to post

It's a small thing, but I wasn't thrilled that Dateline gave him a plug for his book about the whole story.  It just rubs me the wrong way that this guy got away with a slap on the wrist for (at least) negligent homicide, identity theft, document forgery, and plane theft and is now profiting off the sale of his book.  

Nevertheless, I was super-glad Keith was back.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

Quote

Did the show say why the two were running away to begin new lives somewhere else? Change identities, make their families believe they were dead? What was up with that? What was their home life like that they would do that?

There was a suspicious lack of family commentary in this story, just as there was last week. There was an early narrative about the pair being star-crossed like Romeo and Juliet, and that her parents didn't approve because he was from the "wrong side of the tracks." Then the reporter said she spoke with the girl's parents and they denied being against the relationship. However, neither her family nor his family made any appearances on the show to speak for themselves and little was said about either of them.

You would think the girl's family would want the chance to speak out against the injustice of this guy getting away with his crimes, and you would also think if his own family supported and believed him they would likewise want to stand up for him. The silence from both camps is indeed interesting.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

You would think the girl's family would want the chance to speak out against the injustice of this guy getting away with his crimes, and you would also think if his own family supported and believed him they would likewise want to stand up for him. The silence from both camps is indeed interesting

I mostly love Dateline, and that includes sometimes loving to hate it, but I get not wanting to put your personal life on blast. If I was a potential talking head in a case Dateline wanted to feature, and thank the stars I live a pretty boring life, I would politely decline. I mean that shit has got to be hard both ways. Whether you’re the loved one of the deceased or you’re the loved one of the perpetrator of the crime, I can’t imagine wanting to relive that stuff on camera. 

The only way I think I could stomach it is if I was one of those people who felt they needed to defend someone’s innocence. I’d really have to have no doubts though, and even then, I still wouldn’t  want to. 

Edited by Rowan
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

It was brought up that she had just had an abortion, I think possibly the original plan to leave together might have been motivated by the pregnancy.  I grew up where they lived and actually knew of some of her relatives.  There were a lot of rumours,  that she was pregnant and maybe he didn't really want it was one I recall.  The other was they were eloping and also that they were possibly involved in drugs.  There were many rumours but those were the main ones I recall.  It was a real unsolved mystery.  I also seem to recall watching another show about him and his capture a few years ago, he was caught in 2006 I believe.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Did anyone watch the Pizza Bomber episode Friday night? I kept doing other things so pretty much missed most of the narrative after the sequence of events was figured out so was hoping to get some insight here. (I guess I can google it, duh.) I do remember seeing the pizza guy with the bomb around his neck on the news though. Nightmare.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I watched the first hour, but I've seen the Netflix doc, and Dateline didn't seem to be covering anything new. I haven't erased it yet, so let me know if it's worth watching the second hour.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

5 hours ago, tobeannounced said:

I watched the first hour, but I've seen the Netflix doc, and Dateline didn't seem to be covering anything new. I haven't erased it yet, so let me know if it's worth watching the second hour.

To be honest I got bored with it and got up started doing other things.  Why two weeks in a row Dateline is bringing us really old news stories?

Edited by endure
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, tobeannounced said:

I watched the first hour, but I've seen the Netflix doc, and Dateline didn't seem to be covering anything new. I haven't erased it yet, so let me know if it's worth watching the second hour.

No new info and the doc was way more entertaining.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think I ever followed up on this story so this was news to me. I do of course remember the incident with the pizza delivery guy and the bomb but I never knew what became of the investigation or if they ever found out who was responsible. What a horrific way to die.

For those who've seen the Netflix doc, is there anything else to be gleaned by watching it that wasn't already covered in the Dateline story?

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't think I ever followed up on this story so this was news to me. I do of course remember the incident with the pizza delivery guy and the bomb but I never knew what became of the investigation or if they ever found out who was responsible. What a horrific way to die.

For those who've seen the Netflix doc, is there anything else to be gleaned by watching it that wasn't already covered in the Dateline story?

Since I had already seen the documentary and knew the twists and turns, I only half watched the Dateline episode. I am not sure if knowing the outcome from the get-go will affect your viewing pleasure. The documentary was multi-episode and way more in depth.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I’m finding myself bored by the 2 hour episodes.  They seem to pick the wrong stories to make into 2 hour episodes. I just can’t dedicate that much time and attention to episodes with so much filler. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

I am not sure. On one hand, he had notes like it was a real treasure hunt , and other he was nonchalant.

 

I do think he had the mental capacity of a sixth grader, and they took advantage of it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

The authorities did not go in depth enough to figure out if Wells was really involved. They totally implied that he was involed in some way, but it was nebulous and others said he wasn't. I think you need to be SURE about something like that before making it part of this man's legacy.   

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

Dateline.....please rerun the Colonel Williams 2 hour special with Keith.  Pretty Please.

So many years, so many crimes, but that creepy motherfucker never stops fascinating us.  :-)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

As a Canadian I had a special fascination with this case. But there were other reasons too. As so many experts stated, he just didn't fit any of their profiles. I think of his interrogation video often when watching fictional crime shows. It was so calm and civilized, and that made it more shocking when after several hours, without any drama, he just admitted to doing it and appeared genuinely worried about his wife. I've never seen a fictional interrogation remotely like this. 

Edited by Melina22
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

A friend of mine (who works for an American aerospace company that sells planes to foreign countries) recently told me that that she had dealt with this guy when they were selling planes to Canada.  She said she had worked quite a bit with him, and had even attended work dinners, etc. where he was in attendance.  Creepy!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Regarding the Pizza Bomber, the doc was good and I am glad the maker of it wanted to know Brian Wells-with the collar bomb-story and involvement. I cried at the end because it seemed he was forgotten and blamed when to me he was a victim.

Also, back to hating the FBI in probably an unreasonable way.I can't stand them . Have hated them since Buddy Jewel in the 1994 bombing at the Olympics.

Rothstein and Margory were the smartest people in the room and the FBI guys came in second. Dumbasses.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Melina22 said:

As a Canadian I had a special fascination with this case. But there were other reasons too. As so many experts stated, he just didn't fit any of their profiles. I think of his interrogation video often when watching fictional crime shows. It was so calm and civilized, and that made it more shocking when after several hours, without any drama, he just admitted to doing it and appeared genuinely worried about his wife. I've never seen a fictional interrogation remotely like this. 

Det. Sgt. Jim Smyth.  Every wanna-be cop should watch this interrogation.  

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I can't believe that he wife saw a garage full of cabinets etc, and didn't wonder what was in them.
Other people might bring home old projects from the office, but at his level, you wouldn't be bringing homes reams of stuff.
 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

That was one of the cases where hearing about it makes you feel like you can't completely know anyone. I believe his friends and family when they say that his being a psychopathic murderer never crossed their minds, not for a second. For Pete's sake, they trusted him with the Queen! Creepy. I try not to dwell on that kind of thing too much. 

I read a book about him too, but had to skip the really gruesome bits. I'm very interested in psychology, but hate to read about people's suffering. Weird, isn't it? 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I’m conflicted about whether Brian Wells was involved or not. His behavior wasn’t that of someone who thought it was a real bomb, but on the other hand he also had a low IQ so it’s possible his reaction wouldn’t be what I would expect of someone who was of average or higher intelligence. In any case, I agree with Jim Clemente (former FBI profiler) from the Real Crime Profile podcast that the police should have tried to protect Brian Wells by putting a bullet proof vest between him and the bomb. Even if he was involved he clearly didn’t consent to being blown up, and at that point they had no way of knowing if he was involved or not. Law enforcement really messed up in this case (both police and FBI). 

Edited by glowbug
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, glowbug said:

I’m conflicted about whether Brian Wells was involved or not. His behavior wasn’t that of someone who thought it was a real bomb . . . 

I felt like he was manipulated into thinking he was going to get a cut of the money from the bank robbery.  They said he liked working puzzles, so those who planned the robbery (who reportedly knew Wells) worked up this scheme.  "We'll put this fake thing around your neck, and you tell them it's a bomb.  Then you'll have this complicated treasure hunt to complete, and when you get to the end, we'll be there with they key to take the fake bomb collar off your neck.  Then we split the money.

Most people, if there's a real bomb around their neck, are not going to walk into a bank with a shotgun disguised as a cane, and calmly rob the bank.  They're going to say, "I was held down while this device was put around my neck.  This cane is actually a shotgun, but I'm not part of the plan.  Take the cane.  Call the cops.  Get me out of this NOW."  And they won't calmly grab a lollipop on the counter.

When the one cop was talking to Rothstein on his deathbed, asking him to tell the truth and not take it to his grave, my thought was . . . "This guy is a diabolical liar who conned a man into participating in a bank robbery.  Why would the cop believe anything he said, even on his deathbed?"  Rothstein was definitely one of those guys who wanted to have the last laugh.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I think this is why I watch these shows. It's the same reason I watch Survivor and BB. No matter how well you think you understand people, they'll always surprise and mystify you, and do the very last thing you expected, or that even makes sense. If there was a fictional movie in which a man with a bomb around his neck, real or fake, strolled into a bank, delivered a holdup note, then calmly took a lollipop, I'd dismiss it as 100% phony and unrealistic. Same if I watched a movie where the main character was a highly visible, highly respected military officer, who was secretly a psychopathic murderer. And yet people really did these things. 

Horrifying, but fascinating. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

I don’t know if tonight’s episode was new or a repeat, but that was chilling. I cannot imagine the grief her parents have endured.

Geovany was an asshole. He should never be paroled. He’s evil.

The friend with the black hair and the huge eyeballs .... she needs to hook up with James from Love After Lockup. Can you imagine the children they’d have?

 

F169CB60-581A-4537-96C1-76B3B56DF0FB.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post

Geovany's reasoning behind smothering Amber was beyond ridiculous.  He was "always thinking of others, and knew his family needed the money" so she should not have been screaming.  WTF?

 

Sorry they made the deal with him so that there is a possibility of parole...at any time.

Edited by sinycalone
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I lost some of my sympathy for Brian Wells when he just would not stop with his "blame the black guy" nonsense. He had the opportunity to tell the truth and he didn't. 

As for last night, what a senseless murder. Giovanni strikes me as a sociopath.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

Good grief, Cooksdelight! I guess we'll be alright then.

Yes, Giovanny was one of the worst with his slow, cold blooded bag-over-the-head murder while thinking that needing money was a perfectly understandable reason to take her life.  I didn't for one second think the 23 year-old store clerk did it.  You don't commit murder and then just stand around.  I could easily believe his story about getting to the locked store and thinking, "Oh no! I must have got my schedule mixed up,"  Then seeing the mess on the floor and thinking the night clerk left it and he'd better get the store opened and clean up right away.  Also, managers never tell someone in advance that they're writing them up.  Why have two awkward conversations? I was glad for him that he seemed to have grown out of his slacker years and done well in life.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

Why was this story being shown so many years later?  How did Geovany happen upon the store?  Was it just random?  I skipped some of the middle. 

Share this post


Link to post

I think Geovany used to work there, briefly. He knew there’d be money in the safe. Why he didn’t take what was in the cash register is anyone’s guess.

There’s an episode on now, about a girl named Chelsea who disappeared from a Halloween party. I am so distracted by one of the detectives ... the bald one on the left of the screen. He has a huge purple sore on his lower lip and my mind is wandering all over the place wondering how he got that, so I may miss some of the details. LOL!! 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I remember the show about Chelsea has been on before, because I remember some discussion about it, but it's the first time I've seen it.

Her friends were appalling. I'm sorry, but they LEFT without her? And one of them had her PHONE????? What the pixellated hell?

cooksdelight, btw, thank you for the story about the lip sore:  It was all I could see when they showed that guy LOL. Agree, what was that anyway? It almost looked like a boil or cyst of some kind... must have been painful.

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe I'm just a skeptic but I didn't buy Geovany's wife's story. I think at the very least she knew about the robbery from the start, and it wasn't until the cops showed up at the door she realized the jig was up and she might get arrested too, so she started sobbing about how afraid she was. Any time the story involves being taken in a car to some desolate location and threatened with a gun, and then yet you live . . . it just sounds made up. Also her description of seeing the news report about Amber and her reaction sounded phony too. I can believe the guy was abusive towards her but I think she was laying it on a little too thick to cover her own ass and elicit sympathy.

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post

On 10/28/2018 at 11:08 AM, iMonrey said:

Maybe I'm just a skeptic but I didn't buy Geovany's wife's story. I think at the very least she knew about the robbery from the start, and it wasn't until the cops showed up at the door she realized the jig was up and she might get arrested too, so she started sobbing about how afraid she was. Any time the story involves being taken in a car to some desolate location and threatened with a gun, and then yet you live . . . it just sounds made up. Also her description of seeing the news report about Amber and her reaction sounded phony too. I can believe the guy was abusive towards her but I think she was laying it on a little too thick to cover her own ass and elicit sympathy.

I agree that she did seem to dramatize her story somewhat.  But he was convicted of sexual assault against her....so I think the part about going off in the car was probably true.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/23/2018 at 1:21 PM, cooksdelight said:

Here’s his complete confession to police, from the minute he walked in the door.

 

Thanks for the photo.....?????

Share this post


Link to post

Was Friday night’s show a rerun? I hadn’t seen it, if it was. I have no doubt that the wife was the mastermind behind that girl’s death. Would like to know what kind of sentence her husband received. It happened in Myrtle Beach, SC, where my family went for summer vacation every year once my Dad took up golf.

https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/dateline-episode-trailer-the-landing-1359175235676?v=railb&

Share this post


Link to post

It was an interesting episode. Two things bothered me. One was that not one person in the family or any of her friends appeared to have a problem with the girl deliberately dating a married man with the goal of him leaving his wife. They all described her as being perfectly sweet and innocent. Granted, she did not deserve to be murdered, but I feel like they really whitewashed her, as they often do in these shows. 

On a different note, if you freeze the nasty Facebook post from the wife, you see her admission that she'd had a boyfriend for 2 years. I was shocked this wasn't mentioned in the show,if only because it seems like an important detail to leave out. 

In the end, it looks very likely they were guilty, but these things remind me that we can't assume these shows tell us the whole story. Probably not even close. 

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

I agree they left a lot out. Did her family know the man she was dating was married?

I got the impression the parents did not know he was married.  But her friends apparently did.  I realize those friends did not want to appear judgmental when it was a show about her murder....but just brushing it aside was ridiculous.

I also believe the wife was the mastermind.  I suspect the fact that she had been cheating, too, was brought up in the trial....to create doubt about her being the perfect wife and mother.  

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I saw this earlier today. They did leave a lot out. Ok, so there never was a body that was found, but no speculation as to where the body was? I thought that was a bit strange.

Anyways, I think the wife was the mastermind but they both deserve to rot in jail. Such scum.

Heather was careless (and naïve) getting involved with a married man with the expectation that he would leave his wife. That carelessness and naiveté doesn't mean she deserved any of what they did to her though. I feel bad for her parents and sister. I can't imagine the pain and powerlessness of their situation.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size