S02.E08: Su-Zakana

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

When a young woman's body is discovered inside of a horse, Hannibal suggests to Jack that Will be brought in to help crack this peculiar case. Will has seemingly cast aside his suspicions of Hannibal, resuming their doctor-patient relationship, but Alana remains skeptical regarding Will's true intentions and worries that Hannibal may still be in danger. The FBI questions the man they suspect to be the killer in their case, but lack of evidence forces them to let him go. Will and Hannibal race to guard the safety of a witness they believe is in jeopardy, but it might be Will's own judgment that is in peril.

[heyerchick]

NBC Hannibal offer an exclusive look at the episode.

[AimingforYoko]

"I'm much weirder than you will ever be, Margot." That's our Hannibal, master of the massive understatement.

[mrsdalgliesh]

Glorious gross Turducken crime scene.  Starling (!)  Cheesecloth Halanna sex. Zeller making amends with Will.  Hannibal (ostensibly) stopping Will from killing someone.  That last 'embrace.'

I'm beat.

Edited April 19, 2014 by mrsdalgliesh

[thuganomics85]

Yep, a guy burst out of a FUCKING HORSE, and Hannibal just gives him a nonplus "Oh, it's you.  Look at the mess you made.  This was sloppy work!" look.  Pretty much vintage Hannibal Lector, right there.  And thanks to Will, I want to find some way to work "Is your social worker in that horse?" into everyday conversations or interviews.

Get to meet Margot and get a glimpse of her brother.  I'm 100% sure it's only going to escalate on that front.

I thought Jeremy Davies' Dickie Bennett on Justified was something, but Peter had it rough here.  I wonder what his and the killer's fate is going to be.

Loved that Hannibal really wanted to know how Will fantasized about killing him, and how he seemed impressed that Will answered with "his hands."  Hannibal is all about the hands-on killing method.  Mads and Hugh really do shine together.

[MisterGlass]

That was...um...the strangest thing I've seen on network television.

The parallels between the characters were not subtle but I think they were very interesting.  It seems Will is not quite as certain of himself and his feelings as I thought he was.  He remains firm in his convictions about Hannibal, at least.  I like that he made no secret of that in therapy and that he brought fish to the meal.  Also, trust Hannibal to display the fish so that they are eating each other.

Will is troubled by his attempt to kill Hannibal, more so than he let on to Alana or Jack.  He isn't sure what his limits are anymore, just that they aren't what they were.  He managed to bond with another troubled human being, and he wanted to avenge him.  Hannibal is equally curious about Will's limits.  The metamorphosis metaphor is apt, with neither of them actually knowing what Will is becoming.  A stag?

The starling was a weird call forward, and the chrysalis/butterfly imagery.  And so much water.  Will's mental river is replaced by a frozen one. Margo is attacked by a fish tank. Her tears.  Fluid motion.  Rain.

I liked that Zeller apologized for not believing Will.

I could like this version of Margo.  She is an interesting amalgam of Hannibal and Abigail.  I can see why he's so interested. 

Edited April 19, 2014 by MisterGlass

[jelaine]

Really loved the water imagery the ep. 

Hannibal seems to be setting Margot up for something. The attack on Mason makes the most sense, but it's never that easy with this show.

[LittleIggy]

Yeah, I was all "It's Dickie Bennett"! Love Jeremy Davies. Okay, color me sick, but I was much more upset by the dead horses than by all the dead people we have seen over the weeks. What happened to the animals Peter had? Did the world's worst social worker kill them? I didn't see blood and bodies. How did the bird survive being inside the dead woman for so long? How was she put in there? The guys cracked her chest and used a rib spreader...

Man, was I jealous of Alanna! Whew! ;-)

[heyerchick]

If anything, this episode convinced me that Will's feelings for Hannibal run as deep as Hannibal's for Will. When he was talking to Peter about their common experience of being betrayed by a friend, someone each had trusted, he seemed as much sad as angry. Hannibal really is the only person Will has allowed in behind those massive walls of his, and I think he was completely honest when admitting he didn't know what he was supposed to feel. This would all probably be easier on him if all he felt was righteous, fueling anger, but it clearly isn't. Hannibal really has wounded him deeply. But I have to agree with Will that he's a good fisherman, and he is absolutely right in the metaphor from the ice fishing scene: as a lure, he is irresistible to Hannibal, and he is going to keep on tempting Hannibal despite all the evidence that tells Hannibal to keep a safe distance.

As much as I loved the intimate, laden embrace at the end of the episode, I loved the accompanying music. Epic and doomy, at the same time.

[lilmissprefect]

I think that what this episode showed the most is that Will is just as drawn to Hannibal as Hannibal is to him, and he hates that. He knows what Hannibal is, he is determined to bring him down for what he has done, and yet he can't just hate him cleanly, either. And we all know Hannibal is obsessed with Will. Their relationship is fascinating. 

The Hannibal/Alana stuff was not my cup of tea, but it is intriguing that their version of pillow talk is all about Will Graham. I do like that Alana called him out on sexing her up so that she would shut up, but there is a time and place for discussing the guy that at least one of you is kind of in love with, and it sure isn't the bedroom.

I am curious as to why Hannibal stopped WIll from killing the social worker, as in some respects it would push him even closer to the line Hannibal has been doing his best to shove him over since he's known him. Perhaps because he would only be a cheap substitute for who Will really wanted to kill and Hannibal wants all his murderous thoughts focussed on himself? 

Is Jack playing Hannibal right now or does he really believe that Chilton was the Ripper? I'm thinking the former, for two reasons. One, that fishing conversation with Will, and two, the look he shot him when Will said that he knows how it feels to point at a killer and have no one believe him. It seemed very "not now, William" rather than "are we still doing this?"

[Slovenly Muse]

Woah. That embrace at the end will be haunting my dreams for sure.

I have a lot of questions after this episode, mostly about Will. I'm 100% convinced that Jack believes Will, and they are working together to lure Hannibal onto the hook. But given that Will has decided to offer himself as bait, I'm not sure what to think about a lot of his interaction with Hannibal. Now that he knows who Hannibal is and what he wants, his guard must be up in a major way, and yet his interactions with Hannibal seem to almost parody that intimacy they once had, as though he's toying with Hannibal by letting him feel he's getting close, getting back inside Will's head. But how close is he really letting Hannibal get? How much of his emotional turmoil is really too strong to cover up, and how much is exaggerated to catch and hold Hannibal's interest? How close did he really come to shooting that social worker? Would he have done it if Hannibal hadn't interfered? Or was he merely taking a page from Hannibal's book and deliberately creating a volatile situation just to see what Hannibal would do?

I believe that he is in turmoil trying to sort out how he feels about Hannibal and what the good doctor has pushed him to become ("I envy you your hate" - it must be difficult to genuinely hate someone you understand so thoroughly, and are able to empathize with so strongly. It must be tearing Will apart), and that he over-identified with Peter and was not in control of his emotions because of it. But why would he explicitly say this to Hannibal, reveal that weakness, and then bring him along to the stable with him if not as a form of manipulation? Or is Will really so far gone, so shaken by what he tried to do, that he is forced to still rely on Hannibal for emotional support, since there is no one else who can understand him? Either way, this situation is building to something massive.

Why did Hannibal stop Will from killing the social worker? My working theory is, as he hinted at with the cocoon analogy, is that he knew that if Will killed the man, he would truly be reborn, he would become someone new that Hannibal could no longer influence. He would lose Will and the connection they shared. It seems to me that Will is still "in the cocoon" and is still transforming into whatever this experience is causing him to be. Hannibal wants to shape Will's transformation himself, and letting him shoot that man in cold blood would change him in such a way that would ruin his careful work and damage his control over Will. 

Loved Zeller's apology to Will and his acknowledgement that their closed-mindedness (even if it was understandable) helped make Beverly easier prey for the real killer. I like him and Price almost as much as I liked Beverly, so it's nice to get a great character moment like that from him, instead of just exposition.

Loved the introduction of Margot, though I wonder what people who hadn't read the books would have thought without the automatic gut-churning response to the phrase "you should have taken the chocolate" and the sight of the eel. Would the weight of her situation still be there? I know there's been discussion about the differences between this Margot and book Margot. Here's my thought...

I've seen a few people unhappy because show Margot is not a bodybuilder like book Margot. I wonder, since this takes place so long before the book "Hannibal", if the attack by her brother is what causes her to begin accumulating physical strength to the point of near obsession, and the Margot we will theoretically see as the show continues will begin to resemble book Margot more and more. I can't remember if her backstory in the book is detailed enough to support or dash this theory. Anyone remember?

But even if she does deviate from book canon in a major way, I like the way she's been written so far, and have no issue with the change.

This episode was so strange and just packed with layers of complexity, both story-wise and emotionally. I feel like I could pick it apart all night and probably still never figure it out! As always, it has left me super excited for next week.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Slovenly Muse

[ApathyMonger]

Fuller goes through the reasoning behind the changes for Margot in this week's AV Club piece: http://www.avclub.com/article/hannibals-bryan-fuller-rebooting-season-two-halfwa-203515

Even though, in the novel, Margot at this stage of the story really should be 6 years old— because when she first was in therapy with Dr. Lecter, she was a little girl, and she was horribly molested, and it was very, very dark—I didn’t want to tell that story, so we generalized the sadism of Mason Verger so it wasn’t a sexual sadism. It was more, this is a bad man who, like Hannibal, gets off on what people do under certain circumstances.

In the novel, she’s a very masculine character, who has had years of steroid abuse and is a lesbian, and it was unclear to me in the novel whether she was either transgender or a lesbian as a result of those horrible abuses and that horrible childhood and [beat.] that’s not how transgenderism or homosexuality works. So I didn’t want to contribute to that misconception of what it is to be transgender or a gay woman.

It was important for her to have a strength to her and the idea of the reason she’s going into therapy not being because she was this victim of horrible abuse. Which she is, in a different way. She grew up with a sadist, who was incredibly cruel and will be even more cruel in the future, but I like the idea that she’s in therapy because she tried to kill him, as opposed to because she was so victimized, that she had taken an active role in her victimization and had enough, tried to turn it around, and it didn’t go well for her.

Edited April 19, 2014 by ApathyMonger

[Helena Dax]

I totally believe now that Chilton's still alive. No one talked about him, and that silence has to mean something. Crawford and Will are playing Hannibal,

"Is your social worker in this horse?". This show, man. This show.

I think Hannibal stopped Will for practical purposes too. If Will had killed that guy, he could have been sent to prison and Hannibal wants to be with Will. 

Glad to see the Vergers! Do we know who's going to play Mason? 

The dinner at Hannibal's was hilarious. It was like "Oh, no, no, we don't believe that you've been serving human meat to  us, not at all, the fact that we brought those trouts for dinner doesn't mean anything, just a coincidence". 

[ariannemartell]

Was Hannibal's checkered suit at the dinner party a call out to Chilton's style? Hannibal literally takes a part of each of his victims. If he thinks Chilton is dead, is the suit representative of Hannibal metaphorically taking a part of Chilton?

[Ostrich]

Loved the introduction of Margo, though I wonder what people who hadn't read the books would have thought without the automatic gut-churning response to the phrase "you should have taken the chocolate" and the sight of the eel. Would the weight of her situation still be there?

I'm not book spoiled, so I had no idea who this "Margot" was or what was going on. Both of those references went right over my head. I just thought, "oh, Hannibal is doing blatant psychic driving to get this girl to kill her brother." He practically gave her permission. Margot seemed like a non-camp version of Wednesday Addams.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Here's what I wrote about the episode.

[DittyDotDot]

I'm not book spoiled, so I had no idea who this "Margot" was or what was going on. Both of those references went right over my head. I just thought, "oh, Hannibal is doing blatant psychic driving to get this girl to kill her brother." He practically gave her permission. Margot seemed like a non-camp version of Wednesday Addams.

Hee! I just posted something similar over at TWoP, Ostrich. Glad to know someone else was getting the Wednesday vibe...and I too have not read the books nor seen the movies, so I have no clue who she is and all the references just flew over my head also. I was thinking of reading the books this summer--so I would have a clue when these things cropped up on the show--but I decided I prefer to watch it this way. No expectations that way, just enjoying the ride.

 

I really enjoyed this episode. It was nice to get Will back on the team and Zeller's apology was so wonderful--I do like Team Sassy Science, but they were starting to get on my nerves there for a bit with them not seeing how the evidence didn't add up--that was such a nice moment and they way he cracked a little when talking about Beverly...very nicely played Mr. Zeller.  I also loved Price's "you were being too wordy" comment to Zeller. I do love these two numbskulls.

Mads subtle facial expressions just floor me--he's so damn good--all the scenes with Will and Hannibal were just chalked full of mastery.

Can I join the Chilton's-not-dead club? Is there a secret knock or handshake...while I'm at it, could someone let me into the Jack's-on-the-same-page-as-Will club too?

[Slovenly Muse]

ApathyMonger, thanks so much for posting that interview! Of course, it makes perfect sense, and in true Bryan Fuller style, I like it better than the original! I do remember being really pleased with Fuller's comment early on that he would never tell a rape story on Hannibal... and then mildly confused when I read that he was bringing in the Vergers this season. But look, he fixed it! That interview is very good news to me.

In that vein, there is a really interesting review of the episode at tv.com. Worth a read!

[DangerousMinds]

I think that what this episode showed the most is that Will is just as drawn to Hannibal as Hannibal is to him, and he hates that. He knows what Hannibal is, he is determined to bring him down for what he has done, and yet he can't just hate him cleanly, either. And we all know Hannibal is obsessed with Will. Their relationship is fascinating. 

The Hannibal/Alana stuff was not my cup of tea, but it is intriguing that their version of pillow talk is all about Will Graham. I do like that Alana called him out on sexing her up so that she would shut up, but there is a time and place for discussing the guy that at least one of you is kind of in love with, and it sure isn't the bedroom.

I am curious as to why Hannibal stopped WIll from killing the social worker, as in some respects it would push him even closer to the line Hannibal has been doing his best to shove him over since he's known him. Perhaps because he would only be a cheap substitute for who Will really wanted to kill and Hannibal wants all his murderous thoughts focussed on himself? 

Is Jack playing Hannibal right now or does he really believe that Chilton was the Ripper? I'm thinking the former, for two reasons. One, that fishing conversation with Will, and two, the look he shot him when Will said that he knows how it feels to point at a killer and have no one believe him. It seemed very "not now, William" rather than "are we still doing this?"

I don't think Will is truly fascinated with Hannibal, i think he's just playing him in any and every way possible in order to catch him.

[DittyDotDot]

Yeah, I think Will knows that above all Hannibal loves to be "interesting." Mads little smirk there was just fabulous! He was so flattered by the idea that his little pet was interested in him.  I'm not saying that Will isn't interested in Hannibal, but I think he's using Hannibal's weakness to get him to reveal himself a bit here. And it seemed to work. Hannibal was much more Hannibal-like the rest of the episode. He kept trying to push Will and play with him, but I think Will was playing more with Hannibal now.

[attica]

I love trout, I love octopus. Why can't I get invited to a Hannibal dinner?!? I promise to be interesting and not rude! I'll do the dishes, fer cryin' out loud.

I am very pleased Davies could keep Dickie Bennett's hair for this role. I'd hate to see him part with that. Gosh, what if that's how JD likes his hair? I'd call in a social worker, but that seems... contraindicated here.

I'm hoping shoulder pads come back into fashion, so I'm particularly pleased that Margot's rocking them.

[heyerchick]

Will is using the truth, because he knows Hannibal is acutely perceptive, especially with regards to people he's interested in. I think he is genuinely conflicted about Hannibal and he has feelings he's struggling with. But he is most definitely playing the long game, always holding the deepest part of the truth back, while giving Hannibal the honesty (to a point) and emotional intimacy he craves. I think the story works better when Will is conflicted, in part because it's true to the core of Will's character. He is terribly alone, and he did let Hannibal in, and Hannibal does understand and empathise with him in a way literally no one else can. It's a fundamental truth for both men, this attraction they have to one another. I'm loving Will in his role as Nemesis, but he hasn't magically healed from all the damage that's been done to him or been cured of his personality disorders or been able to hitch his horse away from that spot closer to asperger's. I think Will has set his mind to being Hannibal's nemesis, and is set on seducing Hannibal to his downfall, but it's true to his journey and to the show's premise that Will is going to question and suffer throughout. The toll this is all taking makes what he's doing that much braver, for me. I love the man to bits, but he's Will Graham and this is Hannibal. He's fucked. He is always going to have to pay the price. I don't know if Bryan Fuller will actually have Hannibal gut Will physically, but he's certainly intent on gutting him emotionally and spiritually.

I think Hannibal didn't let Will pull the trigger on Ingram for the reason he stated: he wants Will to kill for himself. It's one thing to get Will to pull the trigger, it's another to get him to the point where pulling the trigger won't utterly destroy that purity of character Hannibal so admires. In Hannibal's mind, he's polishing a diamond in the rough; there's no place for crudity, only meticulous crafting. 

Got to say, the nods to Silence of the Lambs were fun, with the starling and Hannibal petting the sheep. And his speech to Will at the very end of the episode was lifted verbatim from a Hannibal interior monologue regarding Clarice. 

[arjumand]

In the novel, she’s a very masculine character, who has had years of steroid abuse and is a lesbian, and it was unclear to me in the novel whether she was either transgender or a lesbian as a result of those horrible abuses and that horrible childhood and [beat.] that’s not how transgenderism or homosexuality works. So I didn’t want to contribute to that misconception of what it is to be transgender or a gay woman.

 

Thank you, ApathyMonger, and thank you, Bryan Fuller. Thank you so very, very much.

See, the reason I only started watching Hannibal about a month ago (when I inhaled an entire season in 3 days) was that, after loving Red Dragon (book and Manhunter movie) and Silence of the Lambs (book and movie) I absolutely loathed and despised Hannibal the novel. I hated it so much that after taking it with me on a trip to London to read on the plane, I left it in my hotel room on purpose. I have never watched the movie and I don't think I ever will. I considered it such bullshit, full of over the top, almost cartoonish characters, and it did the unforgivable: it explained Hannibal Lecter and tried to somehow create reasons for the way he is. Hannibal only works if you consider him a force of nature (we've often said that there's no way he could physically accomplish the things he does in the time available to him, so why try to explain him?).

Ugh. I don't even want to think about that crappy piece of shit. So I love that Fuller is fixing what he can, and making it all so incredibly stylish and stylised and many other adjectives I can't think of right now (that sling she was wearing! was that black leather? OMG).

This episode? I don't really know, I found it slightly disjointed but I'm fine with it, though I'd love to know what happened to Chilton and Miriam Lass.

[Kristen]

I commented on this on Sarah's write-up, and I'm repeating it here: How do you fit an intact grown human being inside of a horse with all the horse entrails still in there? I'm along for the ride here, I'm into this show, and I'll suspend my disbelief far more than some people are willing to, but how does that work, Bryan Fuller? HOW?

[DittyDotDot]

Well, maybe he took some other stuff out...Nope, not going down that road any further, just started to gross my own damn self out.

Edited April 19, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[walnutqueen]

How do you fit an intact grown human being inside of a horse with all the horse entrails still in there?

 

How do you think a foal fit in there?  That didn't stretch my incredulity, but a live bird in the chest of the body inside the body?  THAT is what I want explained.  Stupid, stupid show tests my patience at every turn - that's what you get for not being impressed by all the "visual mastery".

[lilmissprefect]

Well, heyerchick put it in much better terms than I could, so I will not repeat what has already been said so wonderfully. However, I will add that I wasn't actually pulling from Will's interactions with Hannibal for my belief that he cares for him and loathes him at the same time - I was actually pulling from his conversations with Bernadone. Will was honest with him because he had no reason to lie - there was no audience, and the way that the social worker betrayed Bernadone resonated with him because he feels the same way. Then later he tells Bernadone that he "envies [him] [his] hate", because it makes it easier to kill. From this I got that he wishes he hated Hannibal clearly, but he doesn't, maybe feels (at this point) that he can't (because he let him in too far? Because he was his only friend? Because he still understands him?), and it's tearing him up. 

Also, another thing from Hannibal - Margot's therapy and Hannibal's urging her to kill Mason is pretty much exactly what they talk about in Hannibal the book. 

[Kristen]

How do you think a foal fit in there?  That didn't stretch my incredulity, but a live bird in the chest of the body inside the body?  THAT is what I want explained.  Stupid, stupid show tests my patience at every turn - that's what you get for not being impressed by all the "visual mastery".

A foal is smaller than a full-grown man, no? I could see maybe the woman fitting, but that guy wasn't small. The bird WAS more of a head-scratcher though. How did it get it in there and how did it not suffocate??

Edited April 20, 2014 by Kristen

[walnutqueen]

A foal is smaller than a full-grown man, no?

 

Yes, but I've seen horses carrying twins - those foals had some pretty decent sized torsos attached to impossibly long limbs. The full grown man didn't have to worry about crushing or compressing vital organs, if they were still all in place. 

Besides - didn't you ever see Kate Gosselyn's pregnant belly?  :~()

[DangerousMinds]

"This episode? I don't really know, I found it slightly disjointed but I'm fine with it, though I'd love to know what happened to Chilton and Miriam Lass."

 

Dead (Chilton) and brainwashed and drugged (Miriam).

 

I agree with you, I also found the episode somewhat disjointed and a bit unsatisfying. Not enough backstory on the psycho social worker for me to get invested and interested.

How do you think a foal fit in there?  That didn't stretch my incredulity, but a live bird in the chest of the body inside the body?  THAT is what I want explained.  Stupid, stupid show tests my patience at every turn - that's what you get for not being impressed by all the "visual mastery".

I read somewhere that he "sewed" the bird into the deceased's chest cavity, but I'm having a hard time imaging HOW as well.

Edited April 19, 2014 by DangerousMinds

[catrox14]

Can anyone tell me what music was being played when Hannibal is driving? It was very familiar and I want to say the last time I heard it was in 28 Days Later. 

[walnutqueen]

My annoyance level at the bird stunt was over the top because of the whole oxygen for unlimited hours/days little detail, and that the fact that I have first hand experience with wild birds.  I think it was supposed to be a starling, and although they are one of the hardiest of birds I have rescued/rehabbed, they are not particularly suited to oxygen deprivation.  The killer should have used a baby penguin. *

 

* at least then we could cut to Cookie the Penguin tickle video (which I could use after every friggin episode of this show!)   :-)

[Helena Dax]

 

Can anyone tell me what music was being played when Hannibal is driving? It was very familiar and I want to say the last time I heard it was in 28 Days Later.

In Paradisum, by Faure.

[catrox14]

Thank you! And yes it was in 28 Days Later.  How odd that such a beautiful piece of music I remember from two different horror genre works.  

Edited April 19, 2014 by catrox14

[Kristen]

Yes, but I've seen horses carrying twins - those foals had some pretty decent sized torsos attached to impossibly long limbs. The full grown man didn't have to worry about crushing or compressing vital organs, if they were still all in place. 

Besides - didn't you ever see Kate Gosselyn's pregnant belly?  :~()

Haha. Fair enough. I guess my knowledge of horses isn't as stable as I thought.

I suppose you could say that I was harnessed to that idea, and I couldn't let go of the reins.

Maybe I was just champing at the bit a little too much.

Horses.

[MisterGlass]

Is Jack playing Hannibal right now or does he really believe that Chilton was the Ripper? I'm thinking the former, for two reasons. One, that fishing conversation with Will, and two, the look he shot him when Will said that he knows how it feels to point at a killer and have no one believe him. It seemed very "not now, William" rather than "are we still doing this?"

That's very well phrased. The two of them seemed much more reconciled, and I like the idea that it is with that purpose in mind.  Jack and Will both know how to play to vanity, and their combined efforts would be powerful.  I agree that the lack of mention of Chilton and Miriam by them was noteworthy.

I agree that Will is sincerely conflicted about Hannibal.  Hannibal was much more genuine with him at the end of the episode than I think he has been since their first kitchen confrontation.  They connected, and that is hard to put aside no matter how evil the other person is.  I think to some extent he will even feel guilty about bringing Hannibal to destruction, necessary as it is.  In their therapy session, before agreeing to be honest except for sins of omission, and discussing how Will would kill Hannibal, they say the following:

Will: Rebirths can only ever be symbolic.

Hannibal: You've been reborn.

Will: Wasn't that the goal of my therapy?

Will is a changed person, and he is changed because of Hannibal.  He doesn't even wear his glasses as a shield any longer.  His non-traditional therapy included hypnosis, drugs, manipulation, severe illness, and false imprisonment, not to mention the losses of Georgia, Abigail, and Beverly.  And of course the loss of Will's innocence in trying to have Hannibal killed.  And after suffering through all of that, he is free and more in control than he has ever been.  I wonder if Will likes himself better than he did before.  If he does, if accepts that he emerged from this improved, then does he feel culpable for the price of the "treatment"?

I think Fuller's interview makes good points about Margot.  I do like that this version is already much more empowered even if more delicate physically.  To be honest I was not looking forward to the entire Verger story line, and this has gone a bit toward easing my fears.  When I think of the book progression of events the only word that comes to mind is grotesque.

Edited April 20, 2014 by MisterGlass

[walnutqueen]

Haha. Fair enough. I guess my knowledge of horses isn't as stable as I thought.

I suppose you could say that I was harnessed to that idea, and I couldn't let go of the reins.

Maybe I was just champing at the bit a little too much.

Horses.

 

I am ever so delighted to make your acquaintance, Kristen - I suspect you're a dark horse.

Oh, and I believe the scientific term is "horsies!". 

[90PercentGravity]

I love trout, I love octopus. Why can't I get invited to a Hannibal dinner?!? I promise to be interesting and not rude! I'll do the dishes, fer cryin' out loud.

 

If the invitation comes, you might want  to stick with the surf and avoid the turf.

I too think Chilton is still alive. Him being dead at this point in the story just doesn't make sense. If we don't see the lab geeks poking around on him, he ain't dead.

[Epeolatrix]

"Goodbye horses, I'm flying over you...

Probably not intentional, but the starling brought this to mind. :-)

[MisterGlass]

I've read threads about this episode on several sites, and every one of them is full of horse jokes.  They must be intrinsically punny.

[catrox14]

Are you saying there is a lot of horsing around in these threads?

[lilmissprefect]

If the invitation comes, you might want  to stick with the surf and avoid the turf.

 

Then again, that's not necessarily a guarantee of a people free meal. Pretty sure the "flounder" from Kaiseki wasn't any type of fish I'd like to eat...

[iamdog]

I totally believe now that Chilton's still alive. No one talked about him, and that silence has to mean something. Crawford and Will are playing Hannibal,

"Is your social worker in this horse?". This show, man. This show.

I think Hannibal stopped Will for practical purposes too. If Will had killed that guy, he could have been sent to prison and Hannibal wants to be with Will.

 

 

I think Chilton may well be alive because he was referred to in the present tense: "Chilton has many victims beyond the dead" - not 'had'.

"Is your social worker in the horse?" what a line! Suprassed possibly only by Hannibal's "you might want to crawl back in there if you know what's good for you."

I agree on the practical purposes for stopping Will, he would have been tied up in red tape and likely put out of Hannibals immediate reach for some time.

 

And I just want to say the aural sensations delivered in this episode were exceptional.

Edited April 20, 2014 by iamdog

[niven]

I think Chilton may well be alive because he was referred to in the present tense: "Chilton has many victims beyond the dead" - not 'had'.

I noticed the "has" too. Still keeping up hopes for Chilton.

[arc]

The EW season preview, months ago, started off with Fuller explaining the grossest twists of this ep, and thank goodness I was spoiled because I'd hate to have gotten this episode full force. (Not sarcastic.)

In the AV Club walkthrough, Fuller also says in his mind that Bernardone put a dead bird in the victim's chest, but that much magic would have been a bit of a misstep for the show, so I'm glad he held back there. Even so, how did Bernardone get it in there? The lab guys examined her entire body and only came up with strangulation. Certainly he didn't crack her ribs open to do it.

Edited April 20, 2014 by arc

[Ostrich]

Whoa. You guys need to rein in all the horse puns.

[blixie]

 

And I just want to say the aural sensations delivered in this episode were exceptional.

Really? I found them overbearing, intrusive, and annoying. Very  much a distraction from the fact that almost nothing of real important or interest happens in this episode. The episode didn't end so much as stop randomly.

I do have to admire the way Ticky Ticky Jeremy Davies finds parts for which his Ticktastic style and bad haircuts works. Weirdly this was one of the few tableaus that didn't break me in terms of suspending belief, especially the person in the horse womb part, and the bird in the chest was worth it because it really was super beautiful AND super gross.

I did like the introduction to Margo and Mason and the ways it seemed to change the vibe of that story. Her outfits were gorgeous, including her black leather sling. 

Otherwise the only thing that I truly liked from the main continuing plot of Will v. Hannibal was MM getting all intimately handsy with him. All I can do is whisper through the chrysalis. Ooooh dirty.

 

 

[catrox14]

 

Whoa. You guys need to rein in all the horse puns.

Well, not to beat a dead horse...

Edited April 20, 2014 by catrox14

[Kristen]

Whoa. You guys need to rein in all the horse puns.

This is hands down running wild. We need to get back on the inside track here before we're saddled with being a bunch of one-trick ponies.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Kristen

[DittyDotDot]

Sorry, to drive you buggy and stirrup trouble. I'd change it, but I canter race what others have ridden. I'd like to thank all of you chaps for participating, your mothers reared you properly, but it might be time to bale before I get whinny.

Edited April 20, 2014 by DittyDotDot