S12.E01: The Crimson King

[ReidFan]

I'd love this except for one big fat problem. Good luck getting Jackson Rathbone back. :(

[normasm]

7 hours ago, zannej said:

The Good

• I like Alvez. He's professional and despite the awkwardness with Penelope, he handled her rudeness well.
• Hotch got to give some advice to Alvez
• Aisha did a great job of showing Tara's emotions as she dealt with what transpired
• JJ was empathetic with Tara, yet kept her head
• I like Bodhi Elfman. There is something about his voice that I like. I can't quite put my finger on it.
• It seemed reasonable to me for Brian to be worried about being laughed at .
• It actually made some sort of sense that JJ and Tara could get through to the unsub because it was girls who comforted him when he was suffering
• Reid's name being used to purchase stuff at a BDSM shop and Reid didn't get all flustered. It's particularly amusing to me since there are unsubstantiated rumors that Gubler is in to BDSM.
• I like how Alvez gets along with most of the team.
• I actually felt sorry for Brian at the end of the episode.
• We got to see the late deputy's family and I thought the way the cops reacted was actually believable
• I liked that Tara stayed with Brian to make sure the cops didn't hurt him.
• While I guessed from the moment they picked Brian up that he might be the unsub, it was still interesting to see the Manchurian Candidate type element where a word triggered his break. It also made me wonder if he placed a suggestion like that in Hotch's mind.
• I do NOT miss the whole "baby girl" and "chocolate thunder" crap. I was glad to not have the over the top innuendo crap, although I sort of wish there had been a little gentle ribbing of Reid about his name being used for the BDSM store. In earlier seasons, Garcia would have teased him at least a little and with his growth over the last few seasons he probably would have at least cracked a smile.
• Despite Garcia's rudeness to Alvez, I felt that the two had chemistry (not sexual, but I couldn't help but get the sense that Kirsten and Adam like each other-- although maybe it's biased because I've seen behind-the-scenes photos and comments).

The Bad

• I felt like it was a bit too light on Hotch
• The team was too spread out, didn't share info, and it just didn't feel like they were working together. I wanted to see the team in the room with Hotch more and see them looking at him with concern as they discussed Mr. Scratch.
• Certain plot elements- plot was a bit too convoluted and the team took too long to figure out stuff that I figured out without having any info the team did not already have.
• Team failed to do Victimology on Brian properly-- should have found out about the DID diagnosis much earlier on.
• Once they had the DID diagnosis, they should have brought Reid in to talk to him along with Tara because Reid has more knowledge of the disorder and more experience dealing with people who suffer from it, than the rest of the team.
• Exposition dialog was clunky in some places.
• Reid's line about Mr. Scratch being so dangerous because he's a "math genius" was laughable. Being a math genius does not endow one with common sense, understanding of human psychology, or a myriad of other things that would be necessary to accomplish his goals.
• Continuity fail with Garcia's surname origin- in season one she said it was her step-father's surname. Also, her parents died when she was in college-- putting her in her late teens at their death, so it makes no sense that she would abandon their surname at that age and take a different one. Also highly unlikely that she was adopted at that age-- particularly with things established in past episodes.
• Line delivery from Matthew-- too rushed and he was pretty much relegated to exposition with no emotional reaction or connection to the past incidents involving DID. Something just seemed off about his delivery to me.
• Line delivery from Joe during certain exposition scenes. Sounded like he was telling a story rather than actually talking to someone at points.
• Hotch walking along next to Tara silently while she talked to the police chief as if she were in charge. They could have had him ask at least one question during the walk to see the victim.
• At one point the smoke was escaping from the gas mask-- I wonder how uncomfortable that was for the actor to have that stuff blown in his face.
• Even before reading other reviews, I called BS on the treatment for Reid's mother's dementia.
• When Brian said he recognized faces instead of names, wouldn't it have made more sense for them to have obtained the list, found photos of each of the individuals and then shown the pictures to him and kept the names to themselves instead of saying them out loud? Or, showing a face and letting him say it was familiar and then having the deputy say the name out loud.
• Garcia's behavior toward Alvez made absolutely no sense at all. He was just on loan from another agency at the time she was acting snippy toward him. It was childish and unprofessional. I also felt it was out-of-character for Garcia to be so rude and judgmental of someone based on their looks. She never treated Morgan rudely. I kept wanting to see Hotch step in and tell her to knock it off. IF he'd already been a full-fledged member of the team and was replacing Morgan outright, I could see her being a little hesitant, but this just made zero sense. Attention writers: Please stop trying to have the characters be the voice of what you think the audience is feeling. It almost always flops.

In Between

• Brian working for the unsub was predictable to me. I figured it out quite early on, although I did wonder what exactly the end-game was.
• I'm not sure if the cuts on the stomachs really worked for me. On one hand, they seemed too wide, but it wasn't the worst wound makeup I've seen on the show.
• Did I miss something? Was Alvez saying Garcia had a "Canadian boyfriend" an inside joke of some sort? I mean, in one regard, I think he was trying to get her to open up, but it just seemed like an odd thing to say.

I really want them to stop the crap with Garcia being rude asap. I don't expect her to treat Alvez the way she treated Morgan-- I really don't want her to do that at all. I would like to see her attaching herself (in an appropriate manner) to another team member.

I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either. It was moderately entertaining so I'll give it a C.

Zannej, can we please NOT substantiate rumors about Matthew's private life here? Do you know anyone with firsthand knowledge of his sexual proclivities? If not, let's keep those chuckles private, K?

[JMO]

Thank you, Normasm.  By definition, 'unsubstantiated rumor' is gossip.  Not cool.

[MMC]

Final ratings for this episode are a 1.9/6 in its demo and 8.92 (million) viewers. Once again it was Wednesday night's most watched drama. It was the 3rd most watched show of the night. And the 2nd most watched among scripted shows. It was 5th overall in its demo, 4th among scripted shows. Although one could make the case for CM having tied with The Goldbergs which got a 1.9/7. So that would make its demo the 3rd highest of the night among scripted shows.

[Binaanne]

9 hours ago, novhappy said:

ps. Anybody catch the subtle Hamilton reference?

I came here to see if anyone caught that! I'm a long time lurker of this forum, but I had to comment on this. It kind of took the tension out of that scene because I had "Angelica! Eliiiiiiza!" running though my head the whole time'

[novhappy]

10 minutes ago, Binaanne said:

I came here to see if anyone caught that! I'm a long time lurker of this forum, but I had to comment on this. It kind of took the tension out of that scene because I had "Angelica! Eliiiiiiza!" running though my head the whole time'

I know right!!  Still singing it in my head!

[Prairiemakeup]

10 hours ago, novhappy said:

I didn't understand why they had to go to the guy in the hospital to get the names of the kids in the camp. What, now Garcias Magic computer doesn't work?

ps. Anybody catch the subtle Hamilton reference?

Eliza! Angelica! That made me smile. 

[SSAHotchner]

On 9/28/2016 at 11:48 PM, Danielg342 said:

Bored. Really bored. Devoid of real depth or exploration or anything really intriguing anyway. I knew Mr. Scratch would get away, so that was false drama.

I also believe Mr. Scratch got away way too easily...c'mon, you've got a proven supercriminal on the run, you've pinpointed his exact location...and no one thinks to shut down the entire Greater Phoenix area? Seriously, who runs the police on this show?

What it really boils down to is the fact the writers don't think too much about the details...they have their goals and they do a cursory bit to get to them. This is going to be unpopular, but I find Peter Lewis horribly underwhelming. We get a whole lot of talk about how smart he is, but we never see it in action. If he was a one-off criminal, I could excuse a criminal who does little more than drug his victims with sage and gets them to go on rampages. Since we're told that he's some sort of mastermind, the lack of insight into his planning, his method of escape and, well (more importantly), having his plans have some kind of demonstrable goal is mind-boggling.

What was the point of the BAU going on this wild goose chase? To arrest the guy he drugged? So what? Who is he? Why should I care? What purpose does it serve? It's not like Mr. Scratch and his Merry Band of Villains needed some kind of set-up- we had that in "The Storm". I suppose this is "taunting" but...c'mon, we've seen him taunt the BAU enough, it's tiring.

As for the other parts of the episode- well, I think the only real bright spot we had was the new guy, Luke Alvez. Adam Rodriguez had instant chemistry with just about everyone (especially Garcia) and thus Alvez fit in just fine. Really think he ought to have his own star vehicle by now. Looking forward to the energy he brings to the set as well as the episodes. As far as I'm concerned, he's more than a worthy Derek Morgan replacement in my book.

Everything else...nothing really stuck out. I mean, the rest of the team were there and they appeared to be contributing...but they did nothing memorable in my books. Perhaps they really should make CM all about Alvez...he was the only one worth watching, really.

Episode Grade: D. Thought about the "F" because it was dreck...but Rodriguez was fun. So it gets a partial upgrade.

This was my fear. I am not watching this season because of the Hotch/TG situation. But it seems to me that it doesn't matter who they bring into the cast if they're not going to improve the quality of the writing. There are too many continuity errors, too many implausible scenarios, too many errors due to lack of fact checking and just too many scripts that plain suck. So while Erica may be touting getting Prentiss back full time and getting Jane Lynch back for a few episodes, and, hey, wait 'til you see our new guy!!! what good will that do if the material these actors are given is lousy?

So thank you for setting my mind at ease that I hadn't missed anything by not watching.  

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, qwerty said:

Edit: Was slightly disappointed this episode had nothing to do with the band King Crimson. 

No disrespect to King Crimson, but I also don't think we ever learned why the UnSub ever earned the moniker "The Crimson King". Was it a reference to the red rocks that colour the desert in the area?

(Rocks that are really pretty, by the way)

[ReidFan]

I seem to recall someone alluding to a novel Stephen King wrote. And since I don't read Stephen King, the subject stalled right there for me.

[Mom x 3]

Is the guy playing Alvarez channeling Gerard Butler via 300?  Because that is totally the vibe I get from him.  And I thought Garcia was politely hostile to Alvarez due to some sexual tension there - different than Morgan, because they always came off as brother and sister to me.  

[normasm]

I basically liked the episode, it was heavy on Alvez, but they did with Callahan and Lewis' debuts in previous seasons, so, that wasn't a surprise. He's a little twitchy and loud for my tastes, but the actor is engaging, so, hopefully the character will take shape quickly.

The case was OK, although it was kinda stupid that the BAU didn't figure some things out better and faster - is Mr. Scratch really that much smarter than all 8 or 27 or however many agents they have now? Peter Lewis is a nice nemesis, too bad Hotch won't get to catch him after all. This is horribly disappointing, and I will so miss Hotch after next week. I already miss him, matter of fact.

Breen's ongoing problems with continuity: honestly, does the man try to monkey with us so that he'll be known as the King of anti-canon? Not only can Diana you-know-I'm-terrified-of-flying Reid merrily fly to Paris and back, she can beat down that pesky Alzheimer's with a few meals heavy on the Omega-3s? Oh, well, at least it was a happy-Spencer thing. But Garcia being adopted by a family named Garcia after her parents died is just a head-scratcher. We know she's said that 1) her step-dad's name was Garcia, and 2) her "parents" died when she was 18, after which she went off the grid ala Black Queen, with no need for an adoptive family. Eye-roll.

However, there were pluses. I enjoyed that Reid was welcoming and ready to work with Alvez - no sulking, leftover missing of Morgan. (All I'll say about Garcia and Luke is she seems to be fighting a monster attraction to him, rather than resenting his being there in place of Morgan. Talk about infantile!) Reid and Alvez in the field was good, they worked well together, and Reid's concern at the end when Luke was baiting the Crimson King was promising that there might be a little realistic conflict in the style of policing the two do.

The plot devices of Mr. Scratch spoofing out JJ, Rossi, and especially Reid, added a nice creepy touch. 

I liked Alvez talking privately to Hotch about their respective nemeses, and that Hotch said "I try not to think about the ones I catch, but the ones I save (paraphrase)." Liked Tara trying to help the pretend King, and how bad she felt when the deputy was murdered. JJ coming to her comfort was underplayed and lovely, I really think AJ has taken a page from Aisha's acting style, projecting strength that has nothing to do with kicking people's asses and everything to do with figuring out what's going on with the Unsub while keeping one's own sanity. I hope that continues. When Tara and JJ came in at the end repeating the line that his little friends used to say to him to help him calm down, I thought it was affective and rational, and I hope that continues as well.

The paucity of Rossi, and minimal Garcia was appreciated (honestly, there's too damn many people on this team!). Despite the exit of the Hotch character, I have hope that this season will be good overall, and I'll continue to watch what I think is their last season (and would have been even without all the drama behind the scenes). 

[CoyoteBlue]

On 9/28/2016 at 10:40 PM, ReidFan said:

agree, FA...... If Garcia 'hates' Alvez solely because he isn't Morgan, that sure did not come across in the episode. 

During that opening elevator scene, I thought they had hooked up and Garcia was pissed he was being too obvious at work about it...

[rainsmom]

1 hour ago, CoyoteBlue said:

During that opening elevator scene, I thought they had hooked up and Garcia was pissed he was being too obvious at work about it...

Oh my God, I thought that too!

(And Roxie is totally a pet. Hopefully a cat, because he's gone too much to have a dog.)

[JMO]

Finally had a chance to watch.

I have to give credit where credit is due.  For all of my concerns and complaints about the writing, I thought this one was very good.  I felt compelled to pay attention, which I greatly respect, and it held my interest throughout.  Just wish they’d done their homework re: continuity.  I guess, technically, they had continuity with the previous continuity error, where they mentioned Diana and Reid planning to fly to Paris, but…no, that doesn't count.  

I did like the newbie, and I even liked Tara in this episode.  She’s taken a full season to grow on me.  Luke is a little too jovial for a ‘first in/last out in a war situation’ kind of guy, but I think he can be a good fit for the team.  Just enough ego to do the job, not so much that he’ll be difficult to work with.

Very bittersweet knowing we have so little of Hotch left to us.  He was as marginalized as he’s been for many episodes over the past few years, and more so than I would have expected in an episode so infused with Mr. Scratch.  As I suspect will be true of many, I will forever wonder what the denouement of Mr. Scratch was supposed to be, no matter how it plays out during the season.

I agree with those who think Reid’s lines were delivered too quickly.  To me, it always makes sense that he should fast-talk when he’s explaining a concept that excites him, but not when he is having a normal exchange.  I kind of wish Reid’s voice inflection would grow up with the rest of him. 

Definitely passed the Reid-meter, and I’m thrilled that they dressed him like a grown up and found a comb for him to use.

I will miss Hotch terribly this season.  Terribly.  But I also have to admit that there just might be a chemistry here that can sustain the show past season twelve. 

I hope they move forward with liberal references to their absent unit chief, and do not ‘erase’ the character, as Thomas Gibson indicated they might.  There is much gold to be mined in the reactions of the characters to whatever unfolds with Hotch.  Please don’t blow it, CM.

[Morrigan2575]

I haven't watched in awhile, i only came back this season out of curiosity and 

Spoiler

Because Paget is coming back

I enjoyed the episode. I liked the introduction of the new guy. Adam Rodriguez looks much better here than he did on Roswell and CSI:Miami.

Having not watched in awhile I wasn't sure what was going on with Adam/Garcia. My intial take was that Garcia was trying to be super professional but that's nor her norm so she was really bad/akward at it. Sort of like that episode where she took over the media job after JJ left and changed her appearance/clothes, etc.  I actually thought it would be really funny to see a reversal of the Garcia/Morgan relationship where Adam (don't know the character name) is the flirty/inappropriate one and Garcia took on the Morgan role.

[Irish Mermaid]

On September 26, 2016 at 6:10 PM, ReidFan said:

Just me and the dog (cause he doesn't make disparaging rebarks) to watch it.

I hope this play on words was intentional because it's awesome, but if not,  best typo ever!

[ReidFan]

6 hours ago, Irish Mermaid said:

I hope this play on words was intentional because it's awesome, but if not,  best typo ever!

Thank you and yes it was intentional. I'm a writer.  We do crap like that 

 

thank you for catching it!

[senin]

40 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

Thank you and yes it was intentional. I'm a writer.  We do crap like that 

 

thank you for catching it!

 

Can anyone explain it to me?? Pleaaaseee 

[normasm]

It was supposed to be "disparaging remarks" but because this included her dog, it was "reBarks"

[ReidFan]

thanks Normasm! nicer explanation than the one I was gonna post :) 

[ReidFan]

16 hours ago, rainsmom said:

Oh my God, I thought that too!

(And Roxie is totally a pet. Hopefully a cat, because he's gone too much to have a dog.)

while I don't think they 'hooked up' I do completely agree with you, Roxy is a cat, not a girlfriend. There's no way he'd be involved in a serious relationship right now, when he's been single-mindedly bent on finding his missing partner/arresting the responsible baddie

[senin]

29 minutes ago, normasm said:

It was supposed to be "disparaging remarks" but because this included her dog, it was "reBarks"

 I read it so quickly I hadn't realised it said rebarks and no remarks!! Thanks 

[Bookish Jen]

4 hours ago, ReidFan said:

Thank you and yes it was intentional. I'm a writer.  We do crap like that 

 

thank you for catching it!

May I borrow this line? I'll give you the important credit, okay?

Most likely Roxy is a cat or a goldfish or another rather easy to take care of pet? Unless, you have family at home a dog is way too high maintenance for our BAU-teers. Heck, I'm not out of town like the BAU-teers and Pokey Jones is all the pussy I can handle.

Right now I'm going to play it neutral when it comes to Luke Alvez. He seems smart and capable and comes across as a professional and personable kind of guy. And I hope Garcia's momentary lack of maturity is brief and she soon warms up to Luke. But I won't hold my breath.

And though I'm thrilled Emily is coming back, I'm really going to miss Hotch even though TG kicked, oops, I mean dug his own grave.

[Danielg342]

3 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

Most likely Roxy is a cat or a goldfish or another rather easy to take care of pet? Unless, you have family at home a dog is way too high maintenance for our BAU-teers. Heck, I'm not out of town like the BAU-teers and Pokey Jones is all the pussy I can handle.

Morgan had a dog, so it's not unprecedented at the very least.

[Bookish Jen]

5 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Morgan had a dog, so it's not unprecedented at the very least.

Maybe he had a kindly dog sitter.

[Danielg342]

27 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Maybe he had a kindly dog sitter.

In my fics, I wrote that he had one.

[SSAHotchner]

7 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Morgan had a dog, so it's not unprecedented at the very least.

Clooney, and he was on the couch. :)

[arjumand]

On 30/09/2016 at 4:18 PM, HospiceDoc said:

Is the guy playing Alvarez channeling Gerard Butler via 300?  Because that is totally the vibe I get from him.  And I thought Garcia was politely hostile to Alvarez due to some sexual tension there - different than Morgan, because they always came off as brother and sister to me.  

Yeah, that's the first thing that came to mind for me.

IMO, her thought process was "Oh great, another smokin' hot and completely unattainable guy for me to pine over, while he spends ten years treating me / thinking of me like his kid sister."

That's why I also think Roxy is a pet of some sort, so we can have some shenanigans later when Alvez either hooks up with some hottie (90% chance) or makes a play for Garcia (0.1% chance - fat 'n sassy comic relief never gets the hot guy - sorry, got some residual bitterness in there; let me mop it up).

"But what about Roxeee?"

"Haha ha . . . Roxy's my cat / goldfish / parakeet!" And then everybody bursts out laughing. Cut to credits.

I kind of liked the episode? Even though it was kind of a mess, but it was fun, and there wasn't a lot of the stuff which put me off Criminal Minds recently. And I really liked Adam Rodriguez as an addition to the cast. But this Garcia business is getting me down - why can't they let her act like a quirky adult rather than the protagonist of one of those teen in an adult's body movies? And did we retcon her backstory while I wasn't looking? Since when is she a poor orphan taken in by kindly Latino parents?

Ugh. Also, I was distracted throughout by wondering how Hotch is going to be written out.

[ForeverAlone]

I don't think Penelope was deliberately giving any sort of fake story to head off Luke. I think instead this is just Breen the Continuity King striking again. He is well known for getting continuity wrong. I mean, he already screwed up Penelope's canon with "The Black Queen", and this is just the latest example. 

[Watermelon]

44 minutes ago, qwerty said:

I don't think that her story was fake, just that she said it in a way that was misleading about the order of things, but with this show it's much more likely to be a writer mistake than something worth speculating about. 

I find that so odd. As an actor, you really don't remember that your last name came from your stepfather? Did no cast member notice or did they just go with the line anyway?

[ForeverAlone]

I'm going to guess that it could be a little bit of both. I mean, this isn't the only example of a continuity error on the show, and they have happened with pretty much all of the characters at one point or another. I could see that the actors may not remember such details (it's just a job to most of the actors and they probably aren't obsessed with the show like hardcore fans are), or maybe they just don't care that much, because it's just a job to them. 

[Bookish Jen]

7 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I'm going to guess that it could be a little bit of both. I mean, this isn't the only example of a continuity error on the show, and they have happened with pretty much all of the characters at one point or another. I could see that the actors may not remember such details (it's just a job to most of the actors and they probably aren't obsessed with the show like hardcore fans are), or maybe they just don't care that much, because it's just a job to them. 

Like a lot of people, CM is a job, and probably a pretty good one. As glamorous as show biz sounds, the cast of CM are working stiffs just like the rest of us (only much better paid). Perhaps CM is just a steady paycheck and at times, a chance to do some cool stuff like Matthew getting to direct an episode or Kirsten getting a chance to write a script.

I'll admit that for me work is just a place to earn my bread and butter and show off my cute outfits.

[smoker]

There are basic things they know about their characters, but it's usual they didn't remember everything.

Anyway, I think there is a limit for continuity mistakes. There are details which are changed or manipulated because it's the easiest way to fit the pieces of the current storyline or worse, negligence.

I agree with your points, it's a job, and even if they don't like the change, their job is deliver those lines.

As always the problem is the script. And these mistakes don't happen only in the mythology. Physical traumas are a problem too. Of course, I don't talk about real life events, actors are human beings and sometimes we need to be flexible when it comes to the reasons behind accidents or hidden pregnancies. For example, what about scars, Hotch (arms) and Garcia (chest) got their scars erased very conveniently.

In others shows, there are records to avoid these mistakes, and they are used.

The only thing I know is that I love it when those details are respected, but I cringe when they spit on them.

Edited October 3, 2016 by smoker

[Chaos Theory]

What I thought (and would have liked actually) would have been that the reason all the awkward between Garcia and Alverz was because they were in a relationship or had a one night stand or something and were trying to act "cool" and failing miserably at it.  

Edited October 3, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[secnarf]

Well, a dispute over a bit of dialogue that contradicted what had happened earlier is supposedly the conflict that prompted The Kick, so I suppose (some of) the actors will bring it up if they notice it, albeit maybe not in the most appropriate way. If - and this is pure speculation - writers have historically not been receptive to actors bringing up something like this, I can see why actors might fail to mention it.

@Chaos Theory that's a good point! Those scenes could easily be viewed in that context. IMO, I think they did a pretty poor job of setting up why Garcia was behaving that way, instead relying on a deleted scene and cast/TPTB interviews.

[tobeyoungagain]

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 10:20 PM, Droogie said:

Hmmm...

I was pleased with the credits, more or less.

Not so thrilled with Reid spouting facts and not much else.  I liked Reid going in the house first with Alvez.  Less so, the fact that Lewis is the one who empathized and talked the perp down.  I feel like that's Reid's job.  Reinforces my belief that the team is just too big.  I Ike Lewis, but we don't need her.  We just don't.

New guy is ok so far.  His banter with Garcia didn't make me want to lay open a vein.  I did snicker when Garcia bit her thumb to keep from responding when Alvez suggested they look into BDSM shops.  I was glad they didn't play Reid having to go there with Alvez for laughs.  He's a middle-aged man -- start treating him like one.

Why didn't they address Mr. Scratch last season, when it was fresh and we still had Hotch?  

Rossi ends to shed the vest.  I love Joe but he has just aged right out of the job.  Make him a consultant.

I am going to miss Hotch so terribly.  I have always loved him but watching this ep showed me how much.

I don't have another thought in my head about the show tonight.  Happy to see Reid on my screen again.

I'm going to miss Hotch too .. sigh, who will lead the team now??  Before Hotch was grooming Morgan to lead the team and now both Hotch and Morgan are gone.  Who is the leader?  None of the others have the same leadership quality those 2 did.  Ugh!! 

I don't get the banter he has with Garcia - why is she acting all weird with him?  Does she like him?  Isn't she dating Kevin and super in love with him?  Very confusing but I'm not lovin' it.  Also I'm not a fan of Lewis either - not sure what her purpose is or why she's here.  What's her "special skill"?

[Chaos Theory]

There is a difference between continuity errors and CONTINUITY ERRORS.  I have often felt fans of the show hold most shows especially long running procedurals to too high a standard when it comes to continuity.  You may have just watched a episode of season two yesterday and season eight contradicts what was a throwaway line.  That's one thing but changing a characters motivation or personality season to season or even how Garcia and Morgan met was an unnecessary change to cannon.  I do t expect writers to read over every old script with a fine toothed comb each time they write a new script so not to contradict a previous sentence but the big things......the big things.  

As for the new season......if the show is going with the stupid and borderline offensive Garcia having yet another crush on hot guy who could never ever ever like her that way I think I may not just be out but OUT!!!!!!!

Edited October 3, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, tobeyoungagain said:

I'm going to miss Hotch too .. sigh, who will lead the team now??  Before Hotch was grooming Morgan to lead the team and now both Hotch and Morgan are gone.  Who is the leader?  None of the others have the same leadership quality those 2 did.  Ugh!!

If you really want to know, the new team leader's identity has been released in various media platforms and discussed in other forums on there. I'm not sure if it's considered a spoiler given the media coverage, but I'm not going to post it here just in case some people don't want to know! It's pretty easy to find if you're interested, though.

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

There is a difference between continuity errors and CONTINUITY ERRORS.  I have often felt fans of the show hold most shows especially long running procedurals to too high a standard when it comes to continuity.  You may have just watched a episode of season two yesterday and season eight contradicts what was a throwaway line.  That's one thing but changing a characters motivation or personality season to season or even how Garcia and Morgan met was an unnecessary change to cannon.  I do t expect writers to read over every old script with a fine toothed comb each time they write a new scoot so not to contradict a previous sentence but the big things......the big things. 

I think it's good practice to keep track of biographical information about the characters, biggest fears, etc. It can be something as simple as a Word doc with a page for each character and a basic blurb "Garcia - has x siblings, took stepfather's surname, parents died at age y", "Diana - fear of flying therefore cannot come visit Reid", etc.

What's "big" is subjective. Something that I consider major may not be that important to you, and vice versa.

[Droogie]

5 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I think it's good practice to keep track of biographical information about the characters, biggest fears, etc. It can be something as simple as a Word doc with a page for each character and a basic blurb "Garcia - has x siblings, took stepfather's surname, parents died at age y", "Diana - fear of flying therefore cannot come visit Reid", etc.

Sounds reasonable, but I'm not convinced that the current herd of writers have even watched all the older episodes even one time, let alone having some sort of wiki-type file to reference.  It's not my job to do so but even seeing some episodes only once, I generally know whether something is canon.  I would hope that if writing for the show were my actual paying profession, I would know my characters and their backstories inside out.

If they're too lazy/unmotivated/disinterested themselves to know the characters for whom they write (and we know there is some sort of problem there, as evidenced by --Duh! -- the actual writing), then they could at least employ a consultant/CM nerd whose sole mission it was to know the characters, who could correct them when they get it So. Very. Wrong.

[Bookish Jen]

8 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Sounds reasonable, but I'm not convinced that the current herd of writers have even watched all the older episodes even one time, let alone having some sort of wiki-type file to reference.  It's not my job to do so but even seeing some episodes only once, I generally know whether something is canon.  I would hope that if writing for the show were my actual paying profession, I would know my characters and their backstories inside out.

If they're too lazy/unmotivated/disinterested themselves to know the characters for whom they write (and we know there is some sort of problem there, as evidenced by --Duh! -- the actual writing), then they could at least employ a consultant/CM nerd whose sole mission it was to know the characters, who could correct them when they get it So. Very. Wrong.

I think they should hire all of us, clearly we know our CM characters very well. Just call us the CAU-Character Analysis Unit and invite us to sit a spell. We'll even bring treats and snacks.

[JMO]

I completely agree, Droogie.  And I don't give the actors a pass, either, as 'just doing a job'.  

A guest star has the privilege of simply acting, and portraying whatever he is given to portray in the given episode.  But someone starring in a series has the additional responsibility of inhabiting the same character, show after show, in the most excellent way possible.  That includes knowing, and protecting, backstory.  It is the responsibility that goes with the privilege of continuous employment.

I know there are people in all walks of life who just show up, put in their hours, and then go home.  I know there are those who don't think it is important to strive for excellence in whatever occupies them from day to day.  I don't admire or respect their attitudes any more than I admire or respect a writer, or an actor, who doesn't bring his best to every performance.

[Droogie]

ITA, JMO.  So many things come to mind, not the least of which is Reid, suddenly being a MIT grad, despite the audience having heard only of Cal Tech.  Much contorting has allowed me to accept this new info, but really, it's inexcusable from a continuity standpoint.  And that leads me to believe MGG hasn't been all-in with CM for some time, which is another discussion altogether...

[SSAHotchner]

1 hour ago, Droogie said:

Sounds reasonable, but I'm not convinced that the current herd of writers have even watched all the older episodes even one time, let alone having some sort of wiki-type file to reference.  It's not my job to do so but even seeing some episodes only once, I generally know whether something is canon.  I would hope that if writing for the show were my actual paying profession, I would know my characters and their backstories inside out.

If they're too lazy/unmotivated/disinterested themselves to know the characters for whom they write (and we know there is some sort of problem there, as evidenced by --Duh! -- the actual writing), then they could at least employ a consultant/CM nerd whose sole mission it was to know the characters, who could correct them when they get it So. Very. Wrong.

Okay, I don't expect every single writer, especially newbies, to know all these little details that we all know about each of the characters, but I expect somebody there to know. For the one millionth time, who proofreads these scripts? There should be someone that checks this kind of thing as well as other facts, such as things about the location the episode is set in, the medical or crime facts, etc., etc. I don't think there's a good excuse to get stuff wrong. To me it always seems like A) they don't care enough to check, B) they think we're too stupid to notice, C) they think those of us who catch their errors are fanatical, nit-picky, whatever. And all of those things piss me off. 

[Droogie]

3 minutes ago, SSAHotchner said:

Okay, I don't expect every single writer, especially newbies, to know all these little details that we all know about each of the characters, but I expect somebody there to know. For the one millionth time, who proofreads these scripts? There should be someone that checks this kind of thing as well as other facts, such as things about the location the episode is set in, the medical or crime facts, etc., etc. I don't think there's a good excuse to get stuff wrong. To me it always seems like A) they don't care enough to check, B) they think we're too stupid to notice, C) they think those of us who catch their errors are fanatical, nit-picky, whatever. And all of those things piss me off. 

A-MEN, my friend. My sentiments, exactly.

[JMO]

17 minutes ago, SSAHotchner said:

Okay, I don't expect every single writer, especially newbies, to know all these little details that we all know about each of the characters, but I expect somebody there to know. For the one millionth time, who proofreads these scripts? There should be someone that checks this kind of thing as well as other facts, such as things about the location the episode is set in, the medical or crime facts, etc., etc. I don't think there's a good excuse to get stuff wrong. To me it always seems like A) they don't care enough to check, B) they think we're too stupid to notice, C) they think those of us who catch their errors are fanatical, nit-picky, whatever. And all of those things piss me off. 

Or D) they do it because it amuses them to watch the fans react.  

[SSAHotchner]

2 minutes ago, JMO said:

Or D) they do it because it amuses them to watch the fans react.  

Yeah, that pisses me off, too, JMO. :)

[torqy]

On 10/1/2016 at 5:06 AM, ReidFan said:

Thank you and yes it was intentional. I'm a writer.  We do crap like that 

 

thank you for catching it!

@ReidFan: I caught it also. Kudos to you, my kind of suble humor. I'm not a writer, but I do collect this sort of thing in a text file on the laptop.

Edited October 4, 2016 by torqy

[torqy]

On 10/3/2016 at 3:27 PM, SSAHotchner said:

Okay, I don't expect every single writer, especially newbies, to know all these little details that we all know about each of the characters, but I expect somebody there to know. For the one millionth time, who proofreads these scripts? There should be someone that checks this kind of thing as well as other facts, such as things about the location the episode is set in, the medical or crime facts, etc., etc. I don't think there's a good excuse to get stuff wrong. To me it always seems like A) they don't care enough to check, B) they think we're too stupid to notice, C) they think those of us who catch their errors are fanatical, nit-picky, whatever. And all of those things piss me off. 

I agree with these points, and will add a personal pet peeve-establishing shots that look nothing like the location to be established. I guess the viewers are supposed to be too dumb to notice.

[SSAHotchner]

2 hours ago, torqy said:

I agree with these points, and will add a personal pet peeve-establishing shots that look nothing like the location to be established. I guess the viewers are supposed to be too dumb to notice.

Yes. I know I've mentioned this before, but LDSK (season 1) was supposed to take place in my hometown, Des Plaines, IL (suburb north of Chicago). The names of the park and hospital were phony, there wasn't one tree or shrub that looked like it could belong in the midwest, and I caught mountains and palm trees in the exterior shots. But I did find it cool that they used the name of the town. What they should have mentioned is that the Des Plaines police were responsible for the capture of John Wayne Gacy. Not the BAU. The police were the ones who figured out he was a serial killer and were able to get the evidence in his house. It was a big deal in the Chicago area. His last victim was a kid from my high school. I had already graduated but I remember his older brother when I was in high school. This kid, Robert Piest, was just a normal, decent kid that went outside of his work place (a pharmacy) to ask Gacy for a job and was never seen alive again. That's how they got onto Gacy being someone involved in the disappearance of a  young guy. Then they were able to discern that there were signs of him having involvement with other guys who had disappeared. He kept trophies from the victims. Anyway, I always thought they should have found a way to work that into the script and show some respect for the local LEOs.