S01.E02: The First Day

[queenanne]

  On 9/30/2016 at 1:00 AM, theredhead77 said:

I have lots more to say but until I can organize my thoughts I'll just suggest this:

In TWW we learned* the Secret Service appointed to the First Children don't report the activities the First Children are doing. It's to maintain trust between the Secret Service and First Children. It's highly possible the Secret Service (because I just can't bring myself to post SS) will not rat out Leo.

*Because everything I learned about the inner-workings of The White House I learned from TWW. Therefore it's completely true. *g*

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I wouldn't be so sure about this.  Almost certain that despite doing a healthy amount of research, Aaron Sorkin has said he was always getting pestered by White House staffers giving him postmortem "such and such would never happen" what-for.  

That said, sometimes they gave him potential stories instead, so one never knows.

[Enero]

  On 10/1/2016 at 2:48 AM, racked said:

I know it would be impossible to truly capture the chaos that would ensue if an attack of this magnitude happened but this didn't even come close. No one would care what police in Dearborn were doing. No one would care if one kid was murdered when almost the entire federal government were killed the night before. It would be looting and riots and mass panic in far more places, unless the military interceded.  

 

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I agree. The country would be in complete chaos. IMO Kirkman would not even have a time to visit the bomb site ala Bush visiting the WTCs site after 911 because it would be anarchy in America, and he and the few politicians left would be trying to save the country from tearing itself apart.  Yeah I know Kirkman said this. I can't remember in which episode, but I'm not seeing it. Everything is a bit too calm and frankly organized after such an attack. If I didn't know any better I'd have no idea that the entire leadership of the country was dead.

That said, I'm mildly curious about where they're going with this. It's definitely more entertaining than realistic that's for sure. 

[SharonH58]

I cheered when Kirkman said "damn it!"

[henripootel]

  Quote

It's highly possible the Secret Service (because I just can't bring myself to post SS) will not rat out Leo.

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True, but would you buy drugs in full view of the Secret Service?  They are gonna watch him closely and, I assume, tip off the narc cops to nab Leo's customer base.  And they're never gonna let his lowlife suppliers near him again.  Let's face it, Leo's out of the recreational chemistry business.

On the good side, he's suddenly in the 'I'm famous and getting tail from it' business, so he'll adjust.  

[MaryPatShelby]

  On 9/29/2016 at 4:38 PM, Netfoot said:

Are there any such to be found?

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Sue Heck on The Middle.

[Sake614]

So I've been thinking about this for a few days but didn't get a chance to post: to those who are complaining that Tom and Alex are coddling Penny, remember that this has to be very overwhelming for all of them. Maybe they're just trying to find a quiet time to explain things to her in a way she'll understand and not be frightened. I also don't think the character is 10 but probably closer to 8, maybe 9. 

as for asking Leo to watch his sister, again, it's been less than a day. Sure there are WH staffers who could watch her, but the Kirkmans don't know any of them yet. So it isn't at all unreasonable to me that they wouldn't want to leave their child with strangers, especially during a time like this. I've been the little sister whose brother didn't want to babysit, but that's tough. You do as you're told, and that's includes not leaving the room to take a call that likely was about drugs anyway.

re turning on the TV to a kids channel, the TV will turn on to the last channel watched, which was likely the news. So even before anyone could change the channel, Penny would see the devastation and possibly her parents in harms way. So that's probably why her mother didn't want her watching TV. 

So these are my thoughts. As always, YMMV and that's what makes this such a great place to post!

[vibeology]

  On 10/3/2016 at 2:09 PM, Sake614 said:

as for asking Leo to watch his sister, again, it's been less than a day. Sure there are WH staffers who could watch her, but the Kirkmans don't know any of them yet. So it isn't at all unreasonable to me that they wouldn't want to leave their child with strangers, especially during a time like this. I've been the little sister whose brother didn't want to babysit, but that's tough. You do as you're told, and that's includes not leaving the room to take a call that likely was about drugs anyway.

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And what if he had left the room to use the bathroom? Does he drag his 9 year old sister in there with him? The teen is clearly an irresponsible shit, but using him stepping out of the room for a few minutes to demonstrate that doesn't make sense. She's 9. She can be in a room by herself a few minutes. If the show wanted to portray him as irresponsible, there would have been better ways to do it and in fact they've already done a pretty good job when they showed him lying to his parents and going out to deal drugs.

[secnarf]

  On 10/3/2016 at 2:09 PM, Sake614 said:

So I've been thinking about this for a few days but didn't get a chance to post: to those who are complaining that Tom and Alex are coddling Penny, remember that this has to be very overwhelming for all of them. Maybe they're just trying to find a quiet time to explain things to her in a way she'll understand and not be frightened. I also don't think the character is 10 but probably closer to 8, maybe 9. 

as for asking Leo to watch his sister, again, it's been less than a day. Sure there are WH staffers who could watch her, but the Kirkmans don't know any of them yet. So it isn't at all unreasonable to me that they wouldn't want to leave their child with strangers, especially during a time like this. I've been the little sister whose brother didn't want to babysit, but that's tough. You do as you're told, and that's includes not leaving the room to take a call that likely was about drugs anyway.

re turning on the TV to a kids channel, the TV will turn on to the last channel watched, which was likely the news. So even before anyone could change the channel, Penny would see the devastation and possibly her parents in harms way. So that's probably why her mother didn't want her watching TV. 

So these are my thoughts. As always, YMMV and that's what makes this such a great place to post!

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The parents were coddling Penny before anything happened, though - they made that clear in the scene where she is refusing to go to bed for the babysitter while the parents were watching the SOTU address.

Ultimately I think this is a difference in perspectives/life experience. You've been the younger sibling whose brother didn't want to babysit, I was the oldest of five who was always babysitting, responsible for getting my siblings ready in the mornings and getting them (and a couple of neighbourhood kids) to school and bringing them home safely, was never able to go out with friends when we had days off school because I had to babysit, etc. This started when I was 11-12, so not really much older than the younger kid is on this show. After a while, you just get sick of it. And this doesn't really apply to the show, but I was especially annoyed when the sibling closest in age to me was old enough to babysit the younger ones, but was allowed to go out with her friends all the time while I was still stuck babysitting the younger ones. It's somewhat gratifying to hear that sibling openly acknowledge and make sure our younger siblings know that I got the raw end of the deal :P

I can see how a teenager who is already kind of messed up would totally reject the responsibility of always being asked to watch his coddled sister. We've seen him asked to watch his sister twice. This obviously isn't a new demand put on him, and probably not an unreasonable one either, but he did agree to watch her the second time. He also would be keenly aware of how much his sister is coddled, which doesn't really do much to help the situation - when siblings perceive unfair treatment, it has a really negative effect. It wouldn't surprise me if he feels neglected by his parents. They obviously aren't paying him much attention except as it relates to him watching his sister, and have no idea he is dealing.

I feel like the treatment of the kids is probably going to be one of the more divisive issues because it's so personal - people bring their experiences as kids and as parents into it. It's interesting to hear different perspectives.

[Perfect Xero]

Yeah, it's hard for me to see the son as irresponsible because he left the room to take a phone call. At least he was actually doing a good job watching her, playing a card game and joking with her rather than sitting there sulking and playing games on his phone.

[TomServo]

  On 9/29/2016 at 4:41 AM, johntfs said:

I recall from high school the range was

100 - 95 A

...

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That was the scale my high school used, as well.  In college, they used the 90 - 100 = A, 80 - 89 = B, etc. scale.  But very few of the professors believed in grading on a curve.  You got what you earned outright, especially in the intro courses where they were trying to weed out the students who realistically belonged elsewhere.  I only remember one class taught by a dean where the tests were regularly curved, and one Calculus class where the instructor let us retake the make-up version of the tests if we wanted to try for a better grade.

So 75% = C is plausible, depending on the school.

[dwmarch]

  On 9/30/2016 at 10:34 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Tom Kirkman is obviously not Jack Ryan, AFAIK he's not a former Marine, Financial Wiz Kid, Historian or CIA Anlyst  I wasn't talking about the plot or character history. I was saying that, as a character, Tom Kirkman has a very similar disposition to Jack Ryan  (especially in the earlier novels). 

Although, I've never read any of the President Jack Ryan novels, i stopped with Debt of Honor. So I have no idea what President Jack Ryan dealt with after being sworn in.

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They're old books but I'll spoiler code them just in case.

  Reveal spoiler

Executive Orders: As Jack Ryan is trying to put the government back together he gets to deal with terrorists attacking his family, a biological attack on the US, a domestic scandal over who is the real president and a new country made of up a combined Iran and Iraq trying to knock over Saudi Arabia.

Rainbow 6: eco-terrorists (I'm not kidding!) fortify the ebola virus and try to wipe out the entire world. Jack Ryan isn't really in this book at all but the Rainbow team was his idea and is the start of a trend of blacker-than-black special forces/spy outfits.

The Bear and the Dragon: about 900 pages of various racial slurs against the Chinese followed by a short war where the US and Russia team up (Russia even joins NATO!) and defeat the advancing Chinese army with a few simple counter-punches. The Chinese try to nuke Washington but Jack Ryan is onboard the Navy ship that successfully shoots the missile down.

Red Rabbit: This goes back in time to before HfRO and is the tale of insightful junior CIA analyst Jack Ryan discovering and foiling a plot to assassinate the Pope. It was better than it sounds.

The Teeth of the Tiger: Clancy's first novel set post 9/11 which happened in the Clancyverse but isn't really directly referenced. This novel introduces The Campus, an off-books intelligence outfit with a stack of blank pardons and a license to kill. Terrorists shoot up suburban malls all over the US and the operators of The Campus track them down and murder them one at a time with poisoned pens.

Dead or Alive: The back half of the previous novel. The Campus finds Clancy's version of Osama bin Laden and stops him just before he can detonate a nuke inside of Yucca mountain, which would have poisoned America's water table forever. They actually capture the bad guy for once, leading into...

Locked On: Jack Ryan's evil liberal opponent Ed Kealty is president and his liberal namby-pambyness will let the terrorists win if The Campus doesn't continue killing terrorists. The evil liberals at the FBI try to haul John Clark in on some total bullshit charges but he escapes and travels around the world to try to figure out who set him up. There's also some super-terrorist (he was the leader of about 20 different terror groups but none of them knew he was in charge of them all) and he tries to nuke Russia. Rainbow sweeps in at the last second. This is probably the worst Clancy book of them all and he was obviously in a terrible mood when he wrote it.

Threat Vector: a semi-sequel to The Bear and the Dragon. China is going through tough times so they use cyber-warfare and assassinations to mess with America. The Campus operators chase them around.

Command Authority: the last novel Clancy wrote before he died. The rest after this are written entirely by his co-authors. Russia is the bad guy again and they are about to knock over the Ukraine. Jack Ryan has to dig deep into his past to figure out some mystery about the Putin-equivalent who is causing him so much trouble.

Support and Defend: not much Jack Ryan in this one. This is the story of an Edward Snowden-clone taking off with the USA's most valuable secrets while a couple of The Campus guys chase him.

Full Force and Effect: North Korea just hit the gas on trying to produce nukes. They almost manage to assassinate Ryan with a bomb. The Campus fouls up their plans.

Under Fire: another side adventure featuring Jack Ryan Jr. as he gets into trouble around Eastern Europe. The Russians are trying to start a coup and it's up to Junior to stop them.

Commander in Chief: despite the title, this is more of a Jack Ryan Jr./The Campus adventure. Russia is stirring up trouble all over the world trying to get oil prices to rise so they can continue with their wicked ways. President Ryan spends a lot of time reacting to stuff and bitching up a storm. Various world leaders tell him off over the USA's aggressive foreign policy. The Campus digs deep into the financials of not-Putin and not-Putin's own lackeys murder him.

Duty and Honor: Jack Ryan Jr. is being chased by bad guys and has to figure out why they are after him.

So that's what's new in the Tom Clancy novels since you last checked in. As regards the topic, I'd say this show isn't going to follow Clancy's ideas beyond the basics because it would veer way too far into 24 territory.

[SlackerInc]

This show is coated with a thick layer of network-y cheese, but there's enough about it that interests me (the poor-man's West Wing aspect) that I'm not ready to give up on it just yet.  I really hope it focuses more on the realistic and thorny aspects of getting government back on its feet, and less on convoluted conspiracies.  We shall see.

[marinw]

Awe, Kirkman has no use for Kievlar (Kiefer+Kevlar=Kievlar)

(I have serious jet lag and this is the most profound thought I can come up with after catching up last night)

[marinw]

I know this will never happen now, but I am still amused at the idea of the Kirkmans facing exile in Montreal. The horror! The horror! Montreal is actually a really nice, fun, sophisticated city where most Montrealers love to live.

Ok, that is my PSA for the day,

[John Potts]

Even in the worst disaster, I would think somebody in  the Capitol would survive (badly injured perhaps), but some live bodies (as well as lots of dead ones) would be found. There would be those people who were finishing up paperwork in their offices and managed to survive by hiding under their desks, people who'd nipped outside for a smoke and miraculously avoided being caught in the rubble and even those people who just miraculously happened to be in the right place to survive. And of course, it gives the possibility that they survived for sinister reasons. I doubt our (now single) survivor pulled from the rubble could have sinister reasons why they survived since they'd have to have actually been there when the bomb went off (presumably the site has been under continuous observation from essentially the moment of the explosion) - but we'll see.

I get there would be a need to DO SOMETHING, but one day seems unusually short before bombing somebody. After 9/11, it was about a month before they sent the army into Afghanistan - here people are complaining that after one day the new President hasn't bombed anyone. Even in today's news cycle, he'd be given a few days where everyone rallies to the flag and offers their support.

Liked the portrayal of the old cop - both the initial stop and the meeting at the rubble seemed believable. Sure, he had no real reason for stopping Seth (beyond "looking foreign") but you'd expect a paranoid reaction like that. And he seemed reasonably sympathetic when they met again at Ground Zero.

What exactly is it they're keeping from the First Daughter? I find it almost impossible to believe she won't have the broad picture already. She knows they've moved house and she (presumably) has friends she talks to, she's going to know roughly what happened. (It doesn't help that I find it impossible to judge how old she's supposed to be - not just because I don't have kids but because child actors are invariably older than their characters. But unless she's twelve-playing-three, she should know what's up.

  On 10/3/2016 at 4:20 AM, henripootel said:

would you buy drugs in full view of the Secret Service?  They are gonna watch him closely

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You'd think having a Secret Service Agent stationed on his shoulder would be a deterrent for any dealer with half a brain coming within 100 yards

  On 9/30/2016 at 11:50 PM, OtterMommy said:

My BIL suggested a 4th option...

4 - Australia is behind it all.  'Cuz, you know...

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Hey, remember when us Brits were the go to bad guys (the 90s, mainly)? It's revenge for 1776, I tell you!