S01.E11: Freedom from Fear

[blackwing]

I don't think Young Cam ever mentioned Sophie, did he?  I would think that if she was around, we would have seen a Young Sophie.  SBK knew the alarm code, so his accomplice is someone that has a connection to the family.  The only plausible explanation is Tom.  It would be a cop out if they say it was the housekeeper or Gunther or some other employee.

[Happytobehere]

2 hours ago, auntl said:

I think SBK's accomplice is Sophie. I think that she is SBK's daughter. The American Gothic painting is a picture of a creepy man and his daughter. The theory that it's Sophie is also supported by the fact that she's an artist. It also explains Jack's behavior.

I really like this theory.  It also explains the story we heard in the Garrett flashback episode where Cam talked about how he kept running into Sophie wherever he went.  Sophie knows that the Hawthornes had to have something to do with her Dad's disappearance; she watches the family; realizes Cam is the weakest link and moves in on him (maybe even coming to care for him along the way, at the very least, she loves the access to the family and the money for her habit). The discovery of the belt; Mitchell's heart attack and Garrett's return now set the stage for her to act.  Perhaps Sophie logically assumed that Garrett killed her father (he did, but not in the way she thinks), and perhaps Mr. Morales.  Sophie is now striking again because she is ready to make Garrett and the Hawthornes pay in her own special way, especially now that Cam has finally kicked her to the curb.  The reporter stumbled upon something and had to go, when Brady and the other cop found the blind lady (a relative or family friend perhaps), she became a liability and had to go.

This story also explains Garrett's obsession with Christina.  He blames himself for her father's death because he let his parents talk him out of calling the police and into getting rid of SBK's body, thus enabling them to murder Christina's Dad and frame SBK. It's still hella-creepy but it's a more understandable creepy if that makes sense.

I knew Maddie had more to do with Morales's death than she was acknowledging first because we have seen who she really is; second because she was way too quick to come up with a theory that would throw Garrett under the bus; third because even after Mitch's death, she very clearly did not want him around, had it just been M itch, she would have copied up to her son and asked for silence based on Mitch's death; fourth because I always suspected that the only person Maddie ever tried to protect was/is Maddie.  Yes she cared for Mitch, yes, she cares for her kids, but above all, Madeline cares for Madeline.

To me, the only real twist at this point would be if the guy Tessa pushed down the stairs wasn't SBK, but rather someone Maddie hired to take out Mitch when she knew the ish was getting ready to hit the fan.  The guy had the bells because the plan was to make people think Mitch was an SBK victim.  Eliminating Mitch, the thief and setting herself and the children for sympathy rather than ostracizaction, plus Mitch's death would likely temporarily shut up Morales who seemed like a good man, who wouldn't further decimate a grieving family; thereby giving Maddie time to hide a good portion of the Hawthorne fortune before the theft is revealed. SBK goes into hiding, or is perhaps arrested around d the time of the Morales murder and when things get brought up again, he becomes active as SBK again.  He could have changed his MO and have been actively killing since then, but that would be another story.

[sjohnson]

Since Madeline is such a liar, I've been trying to remember which flashbacks were her versions told to the kids, and which were actual flashbacks. Worse, I'm remembering a little dialogue that suggests she's coached Garrett. 

I'm not at all sure, but I think the only real flashback was the final one (which I initially missed,) that confirmed Madeline and Mitchell murdered Morales. The flashbacks as to why Morales was murdered, not. Allison's surprise at the alleged problem with the files could just be her surprise. My first reaction was that Mitchell was making that up as an excuse to go SBK! I'm not sure yet we really know Mitchell's and Madeline's motives. Is my mind failing, or did Conley and Cutter claim that Morales wasn't so averse to corruption? Conley's pay off to Cutter would have been found out if Morales laid charges that started an investigation, no?

Ditto the discovery that the intruder was SBK himself, instead of the accomplice, there to meet his senior partner Mitchell. It's even possible the dude was given the security by Mitchell or Madeline just to deliver the kit, details of which were leaked from the corrupt PD. 

Obviously I've spent too much time giggling to have properly registered the details!

Edited September 1, 2016 by sjohnson

[Chaos Theory]

Everyone needs to remember who Madeline's mother is.  Those short scenes seemed like needless throwaways bit now they go a long way to explainging her.  Being raised by a low rent con artist,. Madeline must have latched on to Mitch early and latched on tight.   She is someone who would do anything to keep what she has because she knows what losing it means.

[Happytobehere]

26 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

They actually tied this together better than I expected them to.  Several things had already been figured out by the posters here, but I would rather have the SL make sense than for the writers to ruin everything with a twist that is just not believable.

I agree if SBK had an accomplice it could be Tom or Sophie.  However, the reason the cops thought SBK had an accomplice was because of the video of Mitchell getting in the passenger seat of the car while someone else (who we now know was Maddie) was driving.  The killer who is now after the Hawthorne's could be Morales' daughter, she wants revenge, and her stabbing Garrett was not an accident.

If I'm not mistaken, the video that revealed the accomplice was not from the Morales murder, but another of the murders.  That video also corresponds with what we saw here.  There is someone waiting in the car, SBK does the deed, comes out, gets in the car with the accomplice who drives away.  Maddie was in the house with Mitchell, so she clearly wasn't sitting in the car waiting for him so they could drive away.

As for the stabbing, I think we are supposed to conclude that Chrisitna stabbed Garrett on behalf of her dad, and also likely because he insinuated himself in her life and she was actually falling for the man involved in her father's death.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Uh, maybe this is one cat they shouldn't have let out of the bag. 

Upon revelation, the whole backstory is so flimsy it's laughable. Let's break it down, shall we? Apparently, Mitchell was mastermind enough to steal 401k money from his employees without them ever knowing it. Yet, at the same time, he was enough of a blithering idiot to leave some "box of payroll receipts" lying around somewhere which would expose his whole scheme. Further, he was blithering idiot enough to task his teenaged daughter with sending an (apparently) identical box to the accountant. which happened to be (apparently) within the vicinity of the box of business-destroying evidence. Which was just laying around. OK then.

Even more implausible is the idea that they couldn't call the police after SBK broke into their house and got pushed down the stairs. Because . . . bad publicity? It what universe would stopping and catching a serial killer be bad publicity? And how would this have so traumatized poor baby Tessa? What kid that age wouldn't have basked in the glory of having killed a serial killer? Even if Madeline plotted the whole thing to her advantage what kind of idiots were Mitchell and Garrett to go along with it?

In the "only on TV" category: someone falls down the stairs and is knocked out, their body is dragged down said stairs, out the door, put into the trunk of a car, driven God knows how many miles to another state, pulled out of the trunk, spread out on the wet ground during a rainstorm, and then and only then, comes to. And all this time nobody thought to check his pulse. Meanwhile, tiny little Madeline can strangle a guy from behind for approximately 12 seconds and kill him dead. OK then.

Given the fact that the show didn't deem SBK important enough to even identify him, I doubt there is any "accomplice" aside from Madeline herself, who is probably schizophrenic and is gaslighting herself.

Yeah, Garrett said it was a few hours to drive to Maine, so the guy went from 'dead' level of unconsciousness to fighting form in a flash.  Though Mitchell did check his pulse, apparently not in the right place.  

Also implausible is that a company large enough to support this family's wealth level wouldn't have fully computerized books in 2002.  Or really any company, for that matter.  

37 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

They actually tied this together better than I expected them to.  Several things had already been figured out by the posters here, but I would rather have the SL make sense than for the writers to ruin everything with a twist that is just not believable.

I agree if SBK had an accomplice it could be Tom or Sophie.  However, the reason the cops thought SBK had an accomplice was because of the video of Mitchell getting in the passenger seat of the car while someone else (who we now know was Maddie) was driving.  The killer who is now after the Hawthorne's could be Morales' daughter, she wants revenge, and her stabbing Garrett was not an accident.

The video was of the 1999 SBK murder, not the 2002 David Morales murder.  That wasn't Mitch and Maddie.  

The best way to get revenge when someone murders your parents is to tell the police, I think.  Christina stabbed Garrett because Brady told her he was an SBK suspect, I think.

32 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I don't think Young Cam ever mentioned Sophie, did he?  I would think that if she was around, we would have seen a Young Sophie.  SBK knew the alarm code, so his accomplice is someone that has a connection to the family.  The only plausible explanation is Tom.  It would be a cop out if they say it was the housekeeper or Gunther or some other employee.

The 2010 cabin flashback in The Oxbow implied Cam and Sophie had met in the last few years, I thought, and that things moved quickly from there.  I don't think there was any suggestion she was around back in 2002, when Cam was in high school.  

Someone remind me... what evidence do we have that Sophie's an artist?  Cam is an artist.  Their apartment has artistic photos of Sophie on the wall, so she wasn't the photographer.  We've seen her help with the school play props.  All us moms do that stuff.  Is it just her overall, tatted, free-spirit demeanor or am I forgetting art scenes?  I have trouble believing she could get that giant dollhouse indoors, set up and plugged in alone and undetected, though same goes for Tom, really.  

Edited September 1, 2016 by Guest

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also implausible is that a company large enough to support this family's wealth level wouldn't have fully computerized books in 2002.  Or really any company, for that matter.  

It's absurd, and it's even more absurd that Mitchell would keep a box - a literal box of payroll receipts which clearly expose his fraud. Just lying around. Then tell his teenaged daughter to go upstairs into his office and grab a box and send it to the accountant. WTF?

I also thought it was silly for Madeline to begin her story with "It started with you, Alison!" as though this were somehow all Alison's fault. She did that twice. "Again, because of you, Alison!" Because there was really no other way to tie Alison into this storyline I guess. Tessa pushed SBK down the stairs, Garrett hid the body, Mitchell was in on it and a drugged up Cam witnessed it. They had to get Alison involved somehow I guess.

The other thing that was absurd was Garrett's excuse for digging up this body. "Oh, I figured if I could eliminate the one piece of evidence connecting me to the crime I could move forward." Uh, excuse me - you already did that 14 years ago. Nobody is looking for this body, it's buried out in the middle of nowhere, nobody is going to stumble across it, and even if they did, there's nothing tying you to it. Why take a wood chipper out to the middle of the field in the middle of the day? Other than plot contrivance so Brady could catch him and Garrett could tell his story.

Edited September 1, 2016 by iMonrey

[Bythebayou]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

. . But it did seem a little convenient that SBK decided to descend on their house right when they were having money issues. I know SBK was targeting rich people, but I really don't know why you'd pick a family that had so many children, especially older children, living at home. And send one guy in? Sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen. Sloppy work for a serial killer. 

 

Maybe he was hired by Maddie to kill her husband, or by the husband to kill her. Or if not hired, blackmailed, seduced, whatever. He might not have even been the real silver bells killer, which would be why she didn't want to call the police.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I agree that Young Cam and Young Allison were great casting.  Young Cam had the mannerisms of Present Day Cam down pat, and even had the stupid hair.

My only question about the Morales murder was, did nobody know that he was meeting with the Hawthornes?  I think he was in his home.  I forget, did they ever say what happened to his wife or where Christina was?  Wouldn't someone have known he was going to meet with them?  He wouldn't have mentioned it to anybody at all?  No nosy neighbours who can identify the car that was parked on his driveway.  Wouldn't Morales have told somebody about what he learned about Mitchell?  Or written a memo somewhere?

Christina's mother was dead or otherwise out of the picture, I think.  Literally, in that David's Christmas cards on his desk were just him and Christina.  Christina told Garrett she came downstairs one morning and found her dad dead, so that was his house.  It's all fairly implausible.  

I also agree that young Cam and young Alison did great.  Tessa is already like most little blonde girls so that would be easy casting.  I still call young Garrett "Garrett Stoltz" in my head.

It would be fun if the SBK they killed was an imposter hired by Maddie but killing Mitch wouldn't make her money/legal problems go away.  And she seems like the DIY type for this sort of chore.  We've seen her kill Mitch and David herself.  And what mom wouldn't take the kids out for pizza the night her hired killer was coming over to strangle her husband and pose him tied to a chair in the living room?  

[Enigma X]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but I can see a scenario where Sophie is the accomplice if she knows how to drive a getaway car even if she is a young teen. It makes more sense if they portray Morales as the older dude who introduced her to drugs.

[curiously]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Someone remind me... what evidence do we have that Sophie's an artist?  Cam is an artist.  Their apartment has artistic photos of Sophie on the wall, so she wasn't the photographer.  We've seen her help with the school play props.  All us moms do that stuff.  Is it just her overall, tatted, free-spirit demeanor or am I forgetting art scenes?  I have trouble believing she could get that giant dollhouse indoors, set up and plugged in alone and undetected, though same goes for Tom, really.  

In the pilot, it was mentioned that Cam and Sophie met in art school. So Sophie's at least good enough at art to get into art school. This also implies that Cam did not know Sophie in 2002, so the question remains as to how SBK could've gained access into the Hawthorne mansion.  It's possible that this question would be resolved when we learn more about the identity of SBK himself - there has to be more reason why they specifically chose to intrude into House Hawthorne when the entire clan is around. If SBK really is just some random dude we haven't learned about in the past 10 episodes, this would be a seriously unsatisfactory payoff to the primary mystery that supposedly drives the show. Replacing it with "who is the accomplice" just isn't good enough.

[Cardie]

3 hours ago, Lostinthehouse said:

 

(Sorry about the above formatting I can't seem to get rid of.) Maddie is not only the daughter of a skilled grifter whose methods she has studied carefully. She is a practiced manipulator who probably picked Mitch because he was rich and easy to bend to her will. Her mom said that Mitch did everything Maddie wanted, unlike Caleb. It may be that she always loved Caleb--as much as she can love anyone but Maddie--but wouldn't marry him because he didn't fall for her manipulations.

This makes her success on the night in 2002 a bit less ludicrous. Everyone else is panicked and hysterical but she is ice-cold calm and knows just what buttons to push. I would love it if the SBK incursion was in fact part of some larger scheme of hers.

Someone wondered why they took a Hawthorne belt to strangle Morales with. Perhaps SBK never brought his ligature with him but as part of the ritual used a belt from within the victim's home. Only the belt in concrete was ever found, unlike the ropes and the bells present at all the killings. I do have to say that SBK targeting people while other family members were in the house was pretty stupid. Since we know very little about his actual victims, we don't know if there were other adults at home. (Garrett and Allison were not home when he entered, and he may have lain in wait and seen Cam leave as well. Still a husband and wife are pretty risky.)

Just to be thorough on the accomplice pool, which includes those who attended Mitch's funeral, I wanted to bring up Naomi. She sort of looks like SBK and we know she likes to tie people up.

[Lostinthehouse]

I keep dwelling on all those bells in Maddie's bag.  I'm thinking she did that herself, to make her look less guilty than she was/is.  She's a liar, manipulator, killer, her kids don't trust her, nothing stands in the way of maintaining her wealth.  So for her to appear guilty shatters her lies, and puts her money at risk if she is in prison.

Still . . .  that dollhouse.  Yikes!  (Reminds me of the Miniature Killer in old CSI episodes.)

[ghoulina]

I thought the mom said the opposite - that Maddie did everything Mitch told her to, but she never put up with that with Caleb?

 

So speaking of Caleb, was that entire thing a red herring? Maddie said something on the phone about, "Why would you show up at the funeral after everything you two did together?" I'm paraphrasing, but that was the general idea. Was Caleb in on the fraud? How are all these stories connected? 

It's hard to say because anything that comes out of Maddie's mouth is suspect. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, curiously said:

In the pilot, it was mentioned that Cam and Sophie met in art school. So Sophie's at least good enough at art to get into art school. This also implies that Cam did not know Sophie in 2002, so the question remains as to how SBK could've gained access into the Hawthorne mansion.  It's possible that this question would be resolved when we learn more about the identity of SBK himself - there has to be more reason why they specifically chose to intrude into House Hawthorne when the entire clan is around. If SBK really is just some random dude we haven't learned about in the past 10 episodes, this would be a seriously unsatisfactory payoff to the primary mystery that supposedly drives the show. Replacing it with "who is the accomplice" just isn't good enough.

That's weird they said they met in art school in the pilot.  Cam said something different when Brady asked how they met, at the cabin in the flashback.  Cam said he had seen her all over around town (the park, the book store, something else) and then she approached him at the park (?) one day and Tessa blurted out "and said she was your girlfriend", or something like that.  

I do think the alarm code has to have meaning because otherwise why show it.  

If this entire mystery resolution is that Tom or Sophie and some random dude or parent are the SBKs, I will file it under 'tv mysteries that were fun to think about while they lasted but overall disappointing and not worth the effort'.  I would throw The Family and How to Get Away With Murder in that pile.  

1 minute ago, ghoulina said:

I thought the mom said the opposite - that Maddie did everything Mitch told her to, but she never put up with that with Caleb?

 

So speaking of Caleb, was that entire thing a red herring? Maddie said something on the phone about, "Why would you show up at the funeral after everything you two did together?" I'm paraphrasing, but that was the general idea. Was Caleb in on the fraud? How are all these stories connected? 

It's hard to say because anything that comes out of Maddie's mouth is suspect. 

Maddie's mom did say something to that effect.  

I think Caleb truly was an affair who got beat up by Mitch in 2002, hence the police report, and otherwise was just a red herring.  I recall Maddie's comment more like "after all you'd been through together", as in fist fights.  The mom trip was just an excuse for a cliffhanger ending in the ep before it, and more weird drama to drag the story out.  I think.  

[atomationage]

I'm really enjoying The Addams Family Chronicles.  Digging up a body and pulling the jaw off the skull and throwing it in a wood chipper!  These are some nice people.   I thought young Cam didn't look much like Justin Chatwin in profile in the car, but when he was facing the camera, he looked like young Justin in Weeds.   On the accomplice, maybe the getaway car was from the UK and the steering wheel was on the right side instead of the left.   Love this show!

[Greta]

I am just going to go full kitchen sink and say both Tom and Sophie are involved. Maybe all SBK's victims were involved in corruption somehow.  Tom was the one who switched the boxes on purpose. (Allison seemed a little confused at how she could have made the mistake.) And then when his mentor died, he started to play a long revenge game. Are we even sure he stopped killing? The silver bells might have just been SBK's kink. 

And Sophie has to have stalked Cam for some reason. Maybe she is SBK's daughter or the child of one of the people Mitch swindled. If the first, Jack's creepiness doesn't come from ( at least entirely) from the Hawthornes.

And I really like the idea of Jack as the red herring, when the real bad seeds, maybe revealed only to the audience, are the Shining twins. One of whom is named Harper, in what I just realized might be an homage to Harper's Island.

[atomationage]

Jack wasn't in this episode.  I enjoyed it so much I forgot about him. 

[la11]

maybe jack made the dolls

[curiously]

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That's weird they said they met in art school in the pilot.  Cam said something different when Brady asked how they met, at the cabin in the flashback.  Cam said he had seen her all over around town (the park, the book store, something else) and then she approached him at the park (?) one day and Tessa blurted out "and said she was your girlfriend", or something like that.  

You're right, that is strange. I suppose they could both be in art school when this happened, so the two stories are not necessarily inconsistent, but that's pushing it a little. Plothole...or is there something more to it?

23 minutes ago, la11 said:

maybe jack made the dolls

Did the dolls have teeth? :-p

[aimlessbird]

There is a reason that in one of the early episodes Cam and Sophie mentioned how easy it has always been for Sophie to sneak into the Hawthorne house.  It was a quick little moment but the writers slid that fact into the story.

[Enigma X]

I am leaning toward Sophie as the accomplice. Heck, Brady is pretty suspect in my mind. Probably not as the original accomplice. But I can see Tom and Sophie somehow involved with the original, and Christina and Brady joining them now to terrorize the Hawthornes for some reason.

 

I really enjoy this batshit show.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, curiously said:

You're right, that is strange. I suppose they could both be in art school when this happened, so the two stories are not necessarily inconsistent, but that's pushing it a little. Plothole...or is there something more to it?

Did the dolls have teeth? :-p

BWAHAHA.  (Doll teeth.)  

I'm thinking it was just lazy writing and I'll fanwank he meant he saw her all over AT SCHOOL then she approached him.  I'm not positive he said 'book store' but that is a campus thing (and a regular thing).  

Good catch about Sophie sneaking in.  But why would Sophie need to sneak in at all?  SBK walked right in the front door, triggered the alarm and just calmly shut it off.  No one noticed except the drugged, sick Tessa, apparently.  I have an alarm on my house and if someone triggered it at night even for 2 seconds we'd notice, for sure.  I get the impression the Hawthorne parents had too much going on to worry about supervising their adult kids.  

[aimlessbird]

Someone sneaked in to set up the doll house.

[thuganomics85]

It's all finally falling into place!  Kind of.  A lot of holes and "Really?!" moments, but at least it is going somewhere finally.

Sure enough, the body Garrett was digging up is actually the true SBK killer.  He seems like he was in the Hawnthorne house to kill someone, but bumps into Tessa, who freaks out, and shoves him down the stairs.  Garrett wants to call the police, but Mitchell and Madeline convince him to get rid of the body instead, so this won't effect the family.  But it turns out the SBK is not only not dead, but apparently has mad healing skills, so he comes after Garrett like a serial killer from a horror film, until Garrett finally puts him down for good.  That explains that earlier flashback weeks ago where Garrett was covered in blood.  Also explains him having the killer's knife.

During this, Madeline and Mitchell use this time to kill Morales, who finds out that Mitchell was taking money out of his employee's 401ks, thanks to Allison accidentally sending the information to him (good job there, Mitchell.  Maybe you should lock up any incriminating evidence, when you're doing something illegal...)  And while Garrett had thought it was Mitchell who was the evil bastard, it really was Maddie who came up with the idea, ran the show, and killed Morales, because, really, you don't get Virgina Madsen for this role, and not have her get to go stone-cold, heartless, steely-eyed, ice queen on someone's ass.  Damn, she is messed up!

Of course, we got two episodes left, so it now seems to be all about this other killer, who they believe was the original SBK's accomplice, and is gunning for the entire family.  Since they have the ability to sneak around the house and seem to know the layout well, I have to think it's a character who has been here a lot.  So, the only ones that really seem plausible to me are Tom, Sophie, Brady, and Naomi.  Only one of those I really doubt would be Brady, but I can buy one of the other three.  Then again, it could end up being anyone!

One thing I was wondering about is that from the brief part we saw of the SBK, he didn't seem like a psycho, but almost like a professional hitman even, so I'm wondering if he is/was actually someone who was paid by someone really powerful and rich (Conely?), to do all the past killings, and he was there for either Mitchell or Maddie because they were on the list.  I guess we'll find out next week! 

[Guest]

I know what you mean about SBK seeming cool and detached but he kind of sucked as a killer, too.  He was thwarted first by a sick little girl on cough medicine then a skinny 20-something who took his tiny knife away from him.  

I think if you're going to walk into a house occupied by 5 adults and a child, triggering the alarm as you enter, you'd at least bring a gun.  

[abbottrabbit]

23 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

  Tom makes more sense than Sophie, given the ages, the alarm code and the size of that dollhouse.  Him buying the cement company was odd, too.  Did SBK look old enough to be his father?  I wonder why if it was Tom he stopped killing, unless he was maybe pressured into being an accomplice in the first place.  

I thought maybe Tom had been like a honey trap for SBK -- like he was the younger partner (maybe the killer's kid), who got involved with the rich prospective victims' daughters (or, hell, sons -- he and Allison might both be bi). So he would infiltrate the family, get the know-how SBK needed to break into the houses (alarm codes, habits, etc), and then drive the get away car while the main SBK did the actual killing.  

Before the whole thing got hung on Mitchell, the police had speculated that the killer was motivated by hatred of the rich, so a dad or other male figure with a class grudge setting his son out as bait for pampered kids would work.  Hell, it could have started because Tom was a scholarship kid at prep school and/or whatever college he and Allison were at, and was treated badly by his peers and their parents. 

And then when SBK never came out of the Hawthornes' house, the killing stopped because Tom wasn't the primary killer. But then he married Allison and stuck around so that he could find out exactly what happened, and someday get his revenge. 

The biggest flaw in that kind of theory is that I don't for a minute believe that Allison, even at age 21 or whatever, didn't have a phone book sized file of opposition research on the family of anyone she got involved with. 

[sugarbaker design]

3 minutes ago, abbottrabbit said:

Hell, it could have started because Tom was a scholarship kid at prep school and/or whatever college he and Allison were at, and was treated badly by his peers and their parents. 

Right, and SBK's hatred might have been exacerbated by Tom losing the school election.

[Guest]

They did say he lost because he didn't have the Greek vote.  The frat/sorority system is usually the rich kids.  

[MaggieG]

Damn, Maddie really is a stone cold bitch isn't she?

I actually enjoyed the episode and all the revelations. Now I'm curious about SBK. I agree with those upthread mentioning that he seemed very calm and collected, like it was just a job. Maybe he was a hitman and not a sociopathic serial killer?

[atomationage]

7 hours ago, aimlessbird said:

Someone sneaked in to set up the doll house.

When Cam found it, I immediately assumed that he had either done that, or helped whoever did it, Sophie or Jack?  I'm going with Jack for now.  Was there a Jack doll in the doll house?

I hope they don't ruin this show with a cliffhanger ending.  If there's going to be another season, I would like most of the same actors and characters, but a completely different story. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by atomationage

[Guest]

8 hours ago, aimlessbird said:

Someone sneaked in to set up the doll house.

Right, but I meant why would Sophie need to be sneaking into the house when she and Cam were dating if they met as adults.  I guess the Hawthornes could have a 'no sleepovers until marriage' rule, or just not have liked Sophie, though.  

[aimlessbird]

I also wonder if Sophie has a tattoo similar to the one the man Tessa pushed down the stairs.  I've wondered about a few of the self portraits in Sophie's apartment also since the camera always seems to include 1 or 2 of them in the background.  The same 2 are usually featured quite prominently where the other art in her apartment not so much.    The style of the art in the dead reporter Jennifer's apartment is similar to the art in Sophie's place.  I'm grasping at straws but it is fun to speculate.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, atomationage said:

I'm really enjoying The Addams Family Chronicles.  Digging up a body and pulling the jaw off the skull and throwing it in a wood chipper!  

What I loved about Garrett's Maine scenes was the sound effects.  He picks up a bone prop (CRACK), drops it in what was probably an inert prop machine (WHIRRRRR), and the slashing sounds of his and SBK's fight.  They were like a sword fight in Game of Thrones.  SBK would slash at Garrett's arm or back and you'd hear that SQUELCH/ZING.

Oh, and the dramatic lightning flash-->cut to Garrett Starr face-->cut back to Garrett Stoltz face.  Ha.  

[atomationage]

4 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

SBK would slash at Garrett's arm or back and you'd hear that SQUELCH/ZING.

Too Funny!  They should have put the words up on the screen like an old Batman episode.   I would like the show even more if they went more over the top.

One of the self portraits of Sophia was damaged when there was a fight or argument at her apartment.  I lost all respect for her after we found out she used Jack to buy heroin.   that was probably the writers' point too. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by atomationage

[tennisgurl]

This show is finally living up to the Gothic part of its name! Dramatic revelations! Digging up bodies? Super intense thunder and lightning! I can get behind this. Its all a little...convenient that Silver Bells is just some random guy (at least this part of the Silver Bells Team) who broke into their mansion, and was taken down by a sickly Tessa. Not the most OMG twist, but it worked alright. And I do like that this backstory conforms that Maddie is an evil criminal mastermind. She is just cold as ice, I love it. 

I really love that Maddie isn't just your typical manipulative, rich matriarch of American East Coast Upper-Crust type, oh no. She prefers to get others to do her dirty work, but if Dad tries to back down from their murder plot, she will get her hands dirty. She just straight up strangled a guy, and her expression hardly changed. And I LOVED that transition between Maddie starring down coldly at her (completely innocent, as it turns out) murder victim who she just killed with her bare hands, and present day Maddie, with the same expression on her face, saying how they were all victims of her husband. Damn.  

This whole thing also makes me feel pretty retroactively bad for Cam. Its clear he was already having issues with drugs, but it seems like seeing the body really pushed him over the edge, thinking that someone in his family murdered someone and covered it up. Which, they did, it just wasn't that murder specifically. At least, thats what I think was his issue. If his parents had been honest and called the cops, things might have been better for him. Certainly not his parents worst crime, or even something they did on purpose, but still just another reason they really do suck. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by tennisgurl

[MD2020]

I could see Sophie as the accomplice with her being the "artistic" half of the duo:  SBK kills the victim since he's stronger and/or a professional; he then signals to Sophie to come in and then Sophie frames the tableau.

Would fit her being an artist and also explain why she is more accepting of Jack; she sees herself in him.

Problem with this is if SBK is a professional, how does Sophie pay him?  I could see her being "estranged art-school daughter of wealthy Bostonian" as a way to pay a hitman, but I don't recall any discussion of her family life.

Another option would be SBK is her father/family member, but then that would mean that Maddie/Mitchell/Tessa never saw a picture of Sophie's family since she was with Cam.  (Garrett wouldn't have been around for the past 14 years, so that at least makes some sort of sense).

[aimlessbird]

Well, we know that Sophie is willing to use her body to pay off drug dealers....................

[NorthstarATL]

The show is such a great comic farce! I love how they sent Garrett out alone in the middle of the night into the middle of nowhere in the rain to bury someone that wasn't quite dead yet! And that Tessa, who as an adult doesn't look strong enough to push a grown man down a flight of steps, did so as a child! What really took me out of the episode, though, was I totally remember still being gay in 2002, with LGBT not yet a "thing".

[Cardie]

I've been frustrated that we have so little information about any connections among the SBK victims but perhaps that was intentional so that they can spring a last surprise of his being hired by some big bad to take these people out--or at least he and his family have specific grudges against all of them. I'm leaning toward the accomplice being his kid or other relative. It would be wild if Tom was the accomplice but Sophie was connected to SBK as well and maneuvered her way into the family. Then she and Tom can face off with amazement about how they both sought revenge on the Hawthornes.

I'll give the show one thing. It began with the premise that this is a family with a member who is a killer. And in the first episode it showed us that killer in action: Maddie. Because it then ran us around looking for the Hawthorne who was SBK, we missed the answer right in front of us..

[preeya]

Would someone explain to me why Garrett was digging up the remains that have been buried there for years.

That corn grinding machine brought back memories of Fargo's wood chipper. Where is Steve Buscemi when you need him most?

[TigerLynx]

3 hours ago, Cardie said:

I'll give the show one thing. It began with the premise that this is a family with a member who is a killer. And in the first episode it showed us that killer in action: Maddie. Because it then ran us around looking for the Hawthorne who was SBK, we missed the answer right in front of us..

While some of the story has been ridiculous, Maddie's part ties together nicely.  From the second Tessa pushed SBK down the stairs, Maddie immediately began to think of ways to turn things to her advantage, and she very cleverly played Mitchell and Garrett from the get go.  Then 14 years later, Mitchell becomes a problem, and Maddie has no problem taking him out.  Her children start to question things, and she tells them enough half-truths to protect herself, and get them worried about someone trying to kill them playing the "We have to stick together as a family to defeat this person" card, leaving out the part where she'll sale them down the river to save herself if she has to.

Quote

Would someone explain to me why Garrett was digging up the remains that have been buried there for years.

This comes under the heading of in order to move the plot along, a character must do something completely stupid and unnecessary to get the story to where the writers want it to be.

Edited September 3, 2016 by TigerLynx

[Happytobehere]

4 hours ago, Cardie said:

I've been frustrated that we have so little information about any connections among the SBK victims but perhaps that was intentional so that they can spring a last surprise of his being hired by some big bad to take these people out--or at least he and his family have specific grudges against all of them. I'm leaning toward the accomplice being his kid or other relative. It would be wild if Tom was the accomplice but Sophie was connected to SBK as well and maneuvered her way into the family. Then she and Tom can face off with amazement about how they both sought revenge on the Hawthornes.

I'll give the show one thing. It began with the premise that this is a family with a member who is a killer. And in the first episode it showed us that killer in action: Maddie. Because it then ran us around looking for the Hawthorne who was SBK, we missed the answer right in front of us..

I love this post. Both the idea that the SBK connect is both Tom and Sophie for different reasons, and the fact that the show so many of us have been slamming as stupid, did the smartest thing possible, showed us the killer (Maddie) and then hid her in plain site, all the while reminding us that she is a saddistic, cold-blooded killer.  Remember her conversation with Garrett about killing Mitch and her employing Alllison to destroy anyone who got in her way.

[Guest]

I think Garrett's grave digging was a plot device but I suppose I can fanwank it that it was like the The Telltale Heart and as long as that body was out there he was going to feel guilt and fear.  I suppose I'd feel more comfortable having made cornmeal of my work, too, though I think I'd realize it was not rational to risk the process.  Or at the very least I'd make sure I wasn't followed.  

Not all of us forgot Maddie was a killer from ep. 1.

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Not all of us forgot Maddie was a killer from ep. 1.

I never forgot she was a killer, just thought she wasn't the killer we were looking for.

[curiously]

Who told the story of Tessa pushing SBK downstairs anyway? Has to be Maddie, right? If it was Maddie, it could've easily been Maddie killing SBK and then pinning the blame on Tessa. If she's strong enough to strangle Morales, she's strong enough to push SBK downstairs.

If we want to go even more Machiavellian: SBK is a hitman hired by Maddie for some reason, something happens that causes the connection between Maddie and SBK to potentially leak (maybe SBK is about to leak the connection himself, either carelessly or on purpose), so Maddie "hires" SBK to come in and off a family member (Mitchell?), with the intention of betraying SBK and killing him in the dark, thinks she succeeded, pins the blame on Tessa, manipulates Mitchell into killing Morales, and Garrett into burying the body. Totally far fetched, but at least it would make SBK more than just some random dude that finally shows up in episode 11 and is immediately offed by a sickly little girl.

I think the consensus now is that the accomplice is Sophie and/or Tom? I am on Team Sophie, but Tom is certainly the next most likely possibility for me.

Edited September 3, 2016 by curiously

[curiously]

Oh, and if the accomplice is not Sophie: the Hawthornes should just unleash Jack on the accomplice. He'll take care of him/her!

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, curiously said:

Who told the story of Tessa pushing SBK downstairs anyway? Has to be Maddie, right? If it was Maddie, it could've easily been Maddie killing SBK and then pinning the blame on Tessa. If she's strong enough to strangle Morales, she's strong enough to push SBK downstairs.

Exactly. Maddie is all, "It's time to know the truth". But, damn, girl, you've been lying this entire time. Should we just automatically buy this as well? She tried to pin Morales all on Mitchell, so why should we not come to the conclusion that she's trying to pin SBK all on Tessa? Maybe the reason I found Tessa's reaction so unnatural (no screaming, no tears, just a push....from a small, sick child) is because that's STILL not what really happened. Even Tessa herself says she doesn't remember. Maddie claims it's because they convinced her it was a fever dream, but I think that's something you wouldn't forget. Even Cam had drug-induced memories of the body dragging resurface. At this point, you can't really trust 100% what she says. 

 

7 hours ago, curiously said:

 

Oh, and if the accomplice is not Sophie: the Hawthornes should just unleash Jack on the accomplice. He'll take care of him/her!

 

Hell, even if it IS Sophie....

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Exactly. Maddie is all, "It's time to know the truth". But, damn, girl, you've been lying this entire time. Should we just automatically buy this as well?

I got home late and had to watch the second half of the ep first, and when Maddie told that story I immediately thought she was lying.  But then when I saw the first half with the flashback I assumed it was true.  

If the flashbacks can be fiction, I think that's dirty pool at this stage of the story.  So far they've been a reliable narrative device.

9 hours ago, Cardie said:

I never forgot she was a killer, just thought she wasn't the killer we were looking for.

Thanks to that stupid news article I read the first week saying this was inspired by BTK, plus her ease at killing her husband, I thought it was her and/or Mitch for a while but when they started heavily suggesting Tessa was being protected by Garrett and Maddie I figured it was something more complex, like all 3 of them killed, which they kind of did.  All four even, really.  I just didn't see Morales' innocence and the embezzlement thing coming.  

But I also really suspected earlier this week that the Hawthornes might be cleared of serial killer activity and Morales would be guilty, making Garrett's baby a potential Jack but worse.  So good fakeout there.  

[Enigma X]

It seems that Maddie's mother had the wrong perception of Mitch. I mean Maddie clearly wore the proverbial pants in that relationship.