S02.E08: eps2.6_succ3ss0r.p12

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Elliot realizes the repercussions of a power vacuum; fsociety begins to fracture; Darlene must make hard decisions.

 

[patty1h]

For an Elliott-free episode, I liked this.  

I don't see how fsociety is gonna get out of this, with the FBI and the Dark Army on their asses. That car creeping down Trenton's street was... creepy.    I can only assume that Whiterose's soft spot for Elliot will play a part.  Also, WTF Angela, picking up older gentlemen in bars for...?   

Darlene is now a stone cold killer and stick swinger.  Batter up Cisco, you backstabbing asshole.

Edited August 25, 2016 by patty1h

[possibilities]

I hated Angela for insulting the guy for being a plumber. I don't care what her other issues are, she's dead to me for that shitty comment.

It took until this episode for me to realize the house they took over was not Joanna's. Except for the hair, the two actresses look exactly the same to me.

Why does White Rose like and protect Elliot, and not Darlene?

[benteen]

While I disapprove of an Elliot-free episode, I very much enjoyed this one and the fact that it gave fsociety more screen time.

Darlene telling Susan that she remembers her laughing after E Corp was cleared in her father's death was strong.

[numbnut]

28 minutes ago, patty1h said:

For an Elliott-free episode, I liked this.

I liked this more than the Elliot episodes. That droning voiceover. Ugh. Though Darlene's glottal fry isn't much better. I'm only watching out of habit at this point but I hope Trenton and Mobley aren't gone for good.

[scrb]

The plumber started it.  Pretty vile shit he said to her.

Her boasting about making more money than he ever has shouldn't really be a putdown except in a money-conscious society.

 

Yeah Darlene seems to have crossed the rubicon but if you think about it, the chaos unleashed by 5/9 probably caused misery and early deaths for a lot of people.  Maybe not to the extent that E-corp has but it sure doesn't seem like they liberated people from debt.

[green]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

The plumber started it.  Pretty vile shit he said to her.

Her boasting about making more money than he ever has shouldn't really be a putdown except in a money-conscious society.

 

Actually she started it by hurting her father deeply.  The plumber was a good friend of his and was just standing up for him.  I would have done the same.  And whatever con she may be playing or play acting at (if that is your pov of what she is about) doesn't have to extend to insulting a guy who actually has earned an honest living at a respectable job.  It was a total thoughtless, selfish act of cruelty.

And it was a putdown because we do indeed live in a money conscious society and are brainwashed from early childhood that we should live the "American Dream" which comes down to making money money money so we can consume tons of stuff because only things bring us happiness and having more than your neighbor makes you a greater person and this is the whole reason for our being born, living and dying.  You have to have awaken just enough to realize that is all garbage not to get hurt by that comment but even then you get sucked back into the garbage just to buy food and keep a roof over your head.  So struggling to survive oftentimes doesn't allow even the more awaken among us to seek the real meaning of life.  So yeah what she said was meant to hurt that man very very deeply.  And it did.

I missed Elliot a lot in this episode.  They could have thrown in a few small scenes at least.

As for Darlene, she sure as hell was having a pretty bad hair day I'd say.  Why they even took over that Evil Corp woman's house to start with let alone didn't keep tabs on her makes no sense.  Darlene seemed to have done it based on this episode as a way to get back at that woman for laughing at the death of her father.  But that's not a good, logical reason to do something that stupid for f.society.  But then clever people aren't always logical and often overlook the most obvious stuff.

Interesting she talked about how she thought if she ever ran into that Susan woman something would hold her back from harming her for real but it didn't.  Like I mentioned in last episode's thread about Lawrence of Arabia.  Similar line when he was forced to kill someone he didn't want to kill in his case and found it disturbing.  Not in the usual sense but in the sense that he found he enjoyed it as in the exercise of absolute power over someone.  Playing with real lives can change people forever and usually not in a good way.

Also does she read Chinese?  I didn't see her run it through a translator program.

I feel sorry for the other two on the run now.  It's like I'm waiting for them each to die some horrible death.  They are so the Red Shirts.  I wish just for once they would write against the grain and a Red Shirt can be allowed to live long and prosper.

Edited August 25, 2016 by green

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

Yeah Darlene seems to have crossed the rubicon but if you think about it, the chaos unleashed by 5/9 probably caused misery and early deaths for a lot of people.  Maybe not to the extent that E-corp has but it sure doesn't seem like they liberated people from debt.

Totally agree.  This is why I like this show and this season.  Last season it was all about "who is Mr. Robot" and "will they manage to complete the hack?"  This season it's been done and we're seeing the repercussions of it. 

To me, this show is about Elliot and Darlene who felt their lives were ruined when their father died, because of negligence by E-Corp; kind of like the shit that happened in Flint Michigan.  Elliot and Darlene were not about saving the world as they were avenging their father's death.  What happened was they involved the Dark Army, which has its own agenda, perhaps to destabilize the US economy.  F.society became pawns in the Dark Army's game and now the Dark Army is cleaning house and the FBI is onto them. 

I don't know why Whiterose has a soft spot for Elliot, sending Leon in the prison to protect him, but maybe that will be revealed later.  Maybe he feels that Elliot would work for him, where Darlene wouldn't. 

I think Angela is getting sucked into that E-Corp lifestyle, she's starting to consume the Kool Aid.

I don't think Darlene reads Chinese but she did see that photo of herself sleeping, read the Chinese and knew it had something to do with the Dark Army.

I too feel for Trenton and Mobley because both of them are idealistic and weren't doing it for revenge. 

This reminds me of something they say in 12 step programs, how resentment is the #1 offender, how it destroys alcoholics and addicts because you can't see beyond your own resentment and anger.  That's what I think happened to Darlene; it's not that her feelings were wrong, but what she did about them was IMO.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Neurochick

[benteen]

I laughed during the flashback when she told Mobley and Trenton that her brother was being melodramatic.  What she read was from Elliot's narration in the pilot episode, I believe.  Maybe that's who Elliot was "talking to" at the time.

All this fsociety focus reminds me that I miss Romero.  I just saw the actor in the first episode of Netflix's The Get Down, playing a fun character.

Edited August 25, 2016 by benteen

[islandgal140]

Never would have thought I would have enjoyed an Elliott free episode so much. I think part of it maybe because there was no reliance on the unreliable narrator and I can rest and be somewhat sure that what was happening was actually happening. Plus there was story movement. Sweet, sweet story movement.

Hmm. .. fsociety thought the Dark Army was an ally and a tool to help them achieve their ends when it is looking more and more like fsociety was a pawn of the Dark Army and apparently their trojan horse. I really want to know more about White Lotus's motives and ultimate goals. By day Chinese Minister by night and during off hours White Lotus. In some ways White Lotus is a self-aware, has her shit together Elliot  with a clock fetish. 

Damn Darlene! Did like that we got a glimpse of an email subject title with 'pacemaker' in it and from there we get bloodless murder.  Seems like moving the body and involving animal shelter guy was the wrong move. It is possible that her death could have been ruled as a malfunctioning pacemaker, she feel hit her head and subsequently landed in the pool. Only issue would be if the ties on her hands caused marks or the stun gun caused a burn however, they put her outgoing message as being out of the office until 7/27 (?) so possible that the body would be in the water for 23 days so it would be a mess and maybe make those things not as noticeable or at least inconclusive. I just feel that is coming back to haunt them.

Str8 female here but damn does Carly C has some beautiful enviable lips. She may not be traditionally or conventionally pretty but she is very, very striking and interesting to look at.

I feel like they should've used a slightly older actress to play the E corp general counsel if they were gonna play it they way they did. I feel like the line 'you've aged well' was supposed to cover that.

The sequences of DJMobley going back to his apartment to get some stuff and hearing a knock and Trenton sitting with her family and hearing a noise outside was so well done and more effective than any of the jump scare movies of today. Reminds me of before my fragile little mind was desensitized to violence by horror and crime films and I was anxious and on pins and needles. Well Done show!

I've been wondering for at least 3 episodes why that woman just abandoned her absolutely fab house with an indoor pool, which must be worth near or over $30m (pre 5/9) for weeks on end, never to return. I mean not even pick up some clothes, no maid with a key to come clean (don't tell me E corp lady is cleaning that place herself), have some PA let in the pool guy, meet repairmen, have some lackey check on it, NOTHING! Made no sense. Also, thought fsociety was just gonna throw a party there and use it for a few days not set it up as HQ for weeks on end and than forget to monitor the place. Dumb! 

When did Andrea turn into a robot? I just don't understand she of the 1,000 yard stare and blank expression. Real surprise in her story was the bar guy being an FBI plant.

Edited August 25, 2016 by islandgal140

[morgankobi]

Cisco's reply of something like, "I have her/she's here" actually struck me as a possible mis-direct. Perhaps Whiterose is having Cisco watch over Darlene as Leon was watching over Elliot. 

I thought it was interesting that they mentioned there was another Ron's Coffee nearby in the flashback. I wonder if maybe either Mobley or Trenton is at the wrong one at the end of the episode.

[Neurochick]

12 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

I've been wondering for at least 3 episodes why that woman just abandoned her absolutely fab house with an indoor pool, which must be worth near or over $30m (pre 5/9) for weeks on end, never to return.

She had some high tech house and f.society hacked into it and fucked everything up.  I think the woman was like, "screw this" and split.  I guess that shows too how wealthy the woman was that she could just leave a place like that and not care.  But f.society should have known she was coming; I guess that shows us, the audience how that group is breaking down. 

[Primetimer]

Sarah D. Bunting is not a crackpot. She just thinks casting the former Duck Phillips is a reason to believe.

View the full article

[cardigirl]

  58 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

I've been wondering for at least 3 episodes why that woman just abandoned her absolutely fab house with an indoor pool, which must be worth near or over $30m (pre 5/9) for weeks on end, never to return.

She had some high tech house and f.society hacked into it and fucked everything up.  I think the woman was like, "screw this" and split.  I guess that shows too how wealthy the woman was that she could just leave a place like that and not care.  But f.society should have known she was coming; I guess that shows us, the audience how that group is breaking down. 

I think fsociety set it up with her that the repair of the smarthouse would take a few weeks. That's why she left.
She thought she was communicating with the people who had built the systems.

[Neurochick]

This may be an UO, but I find Darlene smug and nasty; I really, really hope her sorry ass gets taken down big time.  I really get her being upset about what happened to her father, but that's not the way, and now she's killed maybe two people, really for nothing.  I hope Darlene goes down, way the fuck down.

[Avaleigh]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

It took until this episode for me to realize the house they took over was not Joanna's. Except for the hair, the two actresses look exactly the same to me.

Their lips are night and day. The actress who plays Joanna looks as though she's gone overboard on the collagen. 

12 hours ago, scrb said:

The plumber started it.  Pretty vile shit he said to her.

Her boasting about making more money than he ever has shouldn't really be a putdown except in a money-conscious society.

I didn't feel sorry for the plumber at all. He treated Angela (his friend's daughter) like shit, made a rude and vulgar comment that suggests sex is the only thing she's good at, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for this guy because she said something nasty in retaliation? He was the one who asked her who she was and he got to find out.

7 hours ago, green said:

Actually she started it by hurting her father deeply.  The plumber was a good friend of his and was just standing up for him.  I would have done the same.  And whatever con she may be playing or play acting at (if that is your pov of what she is about) doesn't have to extend to insulting a guy who actually has earned an honest living at a respectable job.  It was a total thoughtless, selfish act of cruelty.

And it was a putdown because we do indeed live in a money conscious society and are brainwashed from early childhood that we should live the "American Dream" which comes down to making money money money so we can consume tons of stuff because only things bring us happiness and having more than your neighbor makes you a greater person and this is the whole reason for our being born, living and dying.  You have to have awaken just enough to realize that is all garbage not to get hurt by that comment but even then you get sucked back into the garbage just to buy food and keep a roof over your head.  So struggling to survive oftentimes doesn't allow even the more awaken among us to seek the real meaning of life.  So yeah what she said was meant to hurt that man very very deeply.  And it did.

I missed Elliot a lot in this episode.  They could have thrown in a few small scenes at least.

As for Darlene, she sure as hell was having a pretty bad hair day I'd say.  Why they even took over that Evil Corp woman's house to start with let alone didn't keep tabs on her makes no sense.  Darlene seemed to have done it based on this episode as a way to get back at that woman for laughing at the death of her father.  But that's not a good, logical reason to do something that stupid for f.society.  But then clever people aren't always logical and often overlook the most obvious stuff.

If Angela's father's friend hadn't come at her in such a vile and negative way, I totally would have felt sympathy for him. Like, 'Ang, I can tell how tough it is on your father that you're working at E Corp now.' Not phrasing it by telling her that she's working for the bastards who killed her mother and how swallowing is something she's never had a problem with to his knowledge. He went over the line and Angela responded to him going out of his way to be mean. 

I totally agree with the bit in bold. I was wondering why they just thought they could crash there indefinitely. I agree that the woman was targeted because of Darlene wanting to get back at her. 

I don't really buy that four year old Darlene has such a clear memory of the woman in court that day but am going to take those thoughts over to speculation. 

All in all I enjoyed the episode although I am missing Price, Whiterose, Tyrell, and Joanna. I'm fine with having a one episode break from Elliot and Mr. Robot. 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Avaleigh

[Ms Lark]

I'm totally gonna start calling Darlene "Lil' Slugger" from Paranoia Agent. An older anime that is probably even more f*ed up than Mr. Robot! Damn girl, dark side? Understatement. More like psychopathic side... I'm still a bit lost, but I guess the whole family is FUBAR.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Ms Lark

[Melissa56789]

Quote

I thought it was interesting that they mentioned there was another Ron's Coffee nearby in the flashback. I wonder if maybe either Mobley or Trenton is at the wrong one at the end of the episode.

I liked the call back to the pilot episode's Ron's Coffee (the other location) that had the super fast wifi.

(we found out in the pilot episode that "Ron" had super fast wifi at the other location because he managed his child porn website from there)

Maybe "the other" Ron's Coffee location closed down after the police raid at the end of the pilot episode?

[riverheightsnancy]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

This may be an UO, but I find Darlene smug and nasty; I really, really hope her sorry ass gets taken down big time.  I really get her being upset about what happened to her father, but that's not the way, and now she's killed maybe two people, really for nothing.  I hope Darlene goes down, way the fuck down.

I agree with this. She is really an unsympathetic character, while Elliot, on the other hand, is. I have to wonder if Darlene manipulated Elliot into the 5/9 hack? Perhaps it was all her idea? These guys weren't smart enough to do what they thought they were doing.  They never really thought through what would happen to all the "regular" people. Arrogant and selfish in my opinion. 

[Sydka]

I did miss Elliot -- I find Rami Malek riveting; I am always waiting for him to come back on screen -- but I loved this episode.  A perfect episode is one where we get this much story movement with Elliot integrated into the action.  In a recent "The Watch" podcast, one of Andy Greenwald's critiques for Season 2 thus far was, "we miss having a protagonist."  Last night we got Darlene instead of Elliot, but at least we finally got one.

I think I spent the entire episode saying "Damn, Darlene!" 

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, riverheightsnancy said:

I agree with this. She is really an unsympathetic character, while Elliot, on the other hand, is. I have to wonder if Darlene manipulated Elliot into the 5/9 hack? Perhaps it was all her idea? These guys weren't smart enough to do what they thought they were doing.  They never really thought through what would happen to all the "regular" people. Arrogant and selfish in my opinion. 

Yes, Darlene is all about ME, ME, ME.  But Elliot, I think really thought he was saving the world.  To me Darlene is just annoying, smug and self centered.

[kat165]

Possibilities, "she's dead to me for that shitty comment. " Pun intended?

I missed Elliot too, but the fsociety stuff was interesting. It was kind of nice to see Angela drunk with her hair down and witout the makeup and false eyelashes, but she still bores me. There's something dead about her. Or the acting. Islandgal, yeah, she is a robot. Hehe, Ms. Robot.

I really wanted to see some aftermath after last wk's where is Elliot really reveal. It was a huge letdown that he wasn't even in the episode.

[Anela]

That man was vile to Angela (who looks utterly miserable). 

I also wondered if White Rose had Darlene's ex protecting her. FBI didn't turn up at her house, to arrest her for murder, but did he turn in the others? I keep missing things (and getting people mixed up). 

I also missed Elliot. 

[benteen]

Quote

I feel like they should've used a slightly older actress to play the E corp general counsel if they were gonna play it they way they did. I feel like the line 'you've aged well' was supposed to cover that.

Yeah, that woman who played Susan looked like she could pass for being under 40.  I had a hard time believing she was a big shot lawyer for E Corp more than two decades ago.

I can totally buy that Darlene deliberately targeted Susan, hoping to provoke this kind of situation.  It would remind me of Justified, particularly the first episode.

If that pervert Ron was the sole owner of Ron's Coffee, there's no way the company would have survived that kind of scandal unless it was bought out.  Remember, that guy owned an entire chain of coffee houses.  But whomever owns it would make damn sure to remove Ron's name from the company, no matter how much money it cost.  Subway doesn't associate with Jared anymore and whoever or whatever owns Ron's Coffee wouldn't want any association with the former owner after the horror that he was engaged it.

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Yeah, that woman who played Susan looked like she could pass for being under 40.  I had a hard time believing she was a big shot lawyer for E Corp more than two decades ago.

The actress is 46, still would have been barely out of law school when Darlene was 4.

[benteen]

I could buy Susan being a junior member of the E Corp legal team in the mid-90s but not the lead lawyer.

Checking out Wiki, she's actually 43 so year, a little young to be the E Corp lawyer more than two decades ago.

Edited August 25, 2016 by benteen

[justmehere]

10 hours ago, green said:

Actually she started it by hurting her father deeply.  The plumber was a good friend of his and was just standing up for him.  I would have done the same.  And whatever con she may be playing or play acting at (if that is your pov of what she is about) doesn't have to extend to insulting a guy who actually has earned an honest living at a respectable job.  It was a total thoughtless, selfish act of cruelty.

A grown man stands up for his friend by calling that friend's daughter a whore and that's OK? Uh uh. No way.

When Angela first saw him, that was the first natural smile I think we've seen from her in ages. Then this man she's probably known most of her life unloads on her in an immature, horribly sexist, inexcusable way. Her response wasn't mature or kind either, but after such an attack, I blame her much less. The 60-year-old man was thoughtless, selfish, and cruel. He's also known her most of her life, and from what we've seen, she's not the least bit promiscuous (no, we haven't seen everything, but nothing points to it - and so what if she was?). Except demeaning a woman sexually is an easy and powerful way to tear her down. He attacked her flat out. All he had to say was: "It's killing your father to see you working for E Corp. Why are you there?" Then he might have gotten a civilized answer in return. (Similar to what Avaleigh said.) Instead, she answered using a powerful way to tear a man down, by going after his profession and level of success. It wasn't mature of her, but he got what he gave.

Additionally, Angela was also earning an honest living at a respectable job before 5/9 and lost it through no fault of her own. We don't yet know exactly what she's doing or what it's costing her to do it, but whatever the case, even if it's just surviving, she didn't deserve that attack.

-------------------

Whatever is going on with Angela, the zombie, drugged, whatever stare is annoying now. We did see a brief smile before the stare returned. Maybe she's compromising herself to such a degree to do whatever she's doing that it takes shutting herself down completely that way. All the affirmations might be a way to psych herself up for the personality removal (or into the corporate mode) she needs in order to function in the enemy camp rather than an actual desire for herself.  I can't remember what she was like when visiting Elliot; I don't think she was quite the zombie was she? Rationalizations aside, I'd still like to see some variance in the performance.

 

8 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

The sequences of DJMobley going back to his apartment to get some stuff and hearing a knock and Trenton sitting with her family and hearing a noise outside was so well done and more effective than any of the jump scare movies of today. ... Well Done show!

Agree. They did a great job with the suspense.

Loved the interrogation later when Mobley realized he was (momentarily) safe, pushed the folder back to Dom, and asked for a lawyer. I thought he ditched his phone to avoid the FBI tracking him, but maybe he did make some kind of deal and didn't want Trent following. Hope not. I'm worried for Trent.

I'm not sure what to make of Darlene or whether or not killing the lawyer was deliberate. She didn't hesitate to go after Cisco, but she was definitely emotional there. As for Cisco -- I'm sort of inclined to believe he betrayed her because of the way the Dark Army thugs came after him and "motivated" him. I'd be glad to be wrong about that though.

I was very caught up in the episode, but then halfway through realized we hadn't seen Elliot yet. Then I couldn't stop waiting for a scene with him. They did a great job with the episode and I really missed Elliot and Mr. Robot.

[Chaos Theory]

I really enjoyed the episode.  I liked the callback to the burn room.  The suspense was ramped up.  I liked Angela's song choice and how it worked well with Darlene and Co trying to decide what to do next.  I also like how Dom is slowly but surely putting the pieces together.  Not all the pieces always fit or fit quite right as of now but she is closer to the truth then others think she is.  

I really like the way the show is handling Angela.  Or maybe the way it is handling the female characters.  On most shows they either handle one gender well or the other.  Rarely does a show write both genders well.  This show does.  And writes them well on both sides of the law.  Angela fascinates me because I can see why she does what she does.  Her actions are often reactionary.  Her father's friend acted so vile towards her she reacted in a way that was both cunning and a little childish.   I think Darlene may be just as crazy as Elliot but in a different way.  There are no voices in her head but she has no problem outright killing someone if it gets her what she wants.  I like Trent alot and her reaction to being called ISIS was quite violent.  I liked hearing her motives once again for why she joined Fsociety and I liked that they still haven't changed.  It will be interesting to see what happens when the police or more likely Dom catches up to her.  As for Dom,  like I said I am enjoying her steady progress to the truth.I think the character is well written instead of being the idiot cop who trips her way into the truth.  

This was a fun episode and I didn't really miss Eliot at all.    

 

Wondering how many Angela vids are going to pop up with "Everybody Wants to Rule The World"?  

Edited August 26, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[tankgirl73]

12 hours ago, green said:

Why they even took over that Evil Corp woman's house to start with let alone didn't keep tabs on her makes no sense. 

They were keeping tabs on her. It showed in the "previously" for those that may have forgotten, but they were tracking the GPS on her phone. They did get stupid and got distracted and weren't tracking her *right then* of course. They even said so -- 'why wasn't anyone watching her feed' or something like that. And like others have said, they spoofed themselves as the repair company too, so lawyer-lady was deceived into staying away. Remember too that show-time is not real-time -- only a couple of months have passed since 5/9, it's July 4 'now'.

I confess I only realized as the episode went to black, that we hadn't had Elliot at all. And I'm in the "I like Elliot more than I like the f-society plot" camp.

[AliShibaz]

19 hours ago, Cardie said:

The actress is 46, still would have been barely out of law school when Darlene was 4.

The part of the story involving her had a few real weaknesses. For example, when she knocked herself out. That was probably the most ridiculous thing I've yet seen so far in this show. I've tried to think if Mr. Esmail was just trying to be funny. But I can't see that. That was just plain stupid - through and through!

Edited August 26, 2016 by AliShibaz

[green]

On 8/25/2016 at 8:17 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I really enjoyed the episode.  I liked the callback to the burn room. 

And what the attendant at that animal shelter said.  That all the dogs f.society freed the first time all came back to them at the end since there was no other place to go to get food and shelter. 

The upfront allegory for the revolution that isn't happening as planned.  Free the people and after the exhilarating rush of the event it comes down to still needing food and shelter and where else to get it but back with the corporations (animal shelter).  And that animal shelter (not all, just the one we see here) is pretty much like the evil elite that rule the world in that few there are in their control that actually find a happy home in the end and many there are who are just used and then thrown into the fire as their time with them expires. 

About Angela vs The Plummer:  I didn't catch the line from the plumber that Angela slept her way up the Evil Corp ladder.  But even so since he is best friends with Angela's father that line was then meant to show what her own father is probably thinking and fearing about her at this point.

Consider, she loses her job, comes back home and lays around on the couch free loading for weeks at a time.  Her father is fine with it because he loves her.  How does she repay his love?  One day she just saunters off with her pretty thin junior exec resume and joins Evil Corp and within like a month she is promoted into a 6-figure (according to her) salary?  No one has that happen at that speed at any corporation if there isn't backroom "stuff" happening.  No one.  Period.

So is there any way her father doesn't fear this is happening?  His friend was in the show to voice that pain and fear in the form of anger at what it is doing to this nice guy father (from what we have seen) and good for him.  Could he have been more polite and just hinted at it?  Yeah maybe but the direct approach may just have awaken Angela more as to how she is making her father suffer all in the name of righting the wrong done to him and her mother.

If she is playing E Corp then she should have told her father her plans instead of thinking she was protecting him by not telling him.  I hate all characters in fictional shows that knowingly hold back the truth to make a mess of things by doing that.  I hate those storyline choices.  They drive me up the wall. 

And that kind of choice not to include him was patronizing and demeaning to him like he was just a stupid jerk and a fool not to be trusted and not being able to help her and she was so much better than him that she would be his white knight like she was helping a little helpless puppy or someone who wasn't human and didn't have worthwhile ideas of his own.  Even if she turns out in the end to be the hero of heroes of this show she injured the heart of another in a way I find unforgivable.

Edited August 27, 2016 by green

[AliShibaz]

Unlike most people, I didn't find fault with Angela for responding to the plumber as sharply as she did. I saw that exchange as being a verbal attack by the plumber against Angela and her reply was her defense of herself - her character and her abilities.

It is certainly true that she could have easily been more sympathetic and replied to him with a great deal more kindness and understanding. After all, I think she is much more intelligent and educated then he is and could easily have taken the high road with him instead of the low road. But on the other hand, if someone comes up to you and insults you face to face with some rather harsh statements, it seems to me that it's very difficult (almost impossible for most of us) to avoid defending yourself (on the spur of the moment) and telling the other person to just STFU and go DIAF. It takes a real saint to take the high road and reply to them with kindness and understanding when they have attacked you in such a harsh way.

However, I am most certainly biased because I seem to feel very strongly towards Angela. If this was a real life situation, I think I would be in love with her. Everything about her just pushes all my "love buttons". All of her attributes (her character, her personality, her education and intelligence, etc.) just appeal to me as the kind of lady with whom I would love to have a romance - maybe even a marriage . I guess I just have much affection for her. IMO, Angela is a real darling  -  almost a perfect kind of spouse.. I know that under these circumstances, that sounds very foolish - almost crazy. But for some reason, that is truly the way I feel about her.  She is wonderful and beautiful too.

Edited August 26, 2016 by AliShibaz

[Neurochick]

I realized just what bugs me about Darlene.  So she kills a woman, a WOC who was a junior lawyer?  Who was probably just there? 

But I notice she didn't go after the main players, who were probably white men, who no doubt made the real decisions that caused her father's death.  Darlene is no revolutionary at all, she's not even a hero, she's just a common criminal, a murderer, period, end of story.

[AliShibaz]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I realized just what bugs me about Darlene.  So she kills a woman, a WOC who was a junior lawyer?  Who was probably just there? 

But I notice she didn't go after the main players, who were probably white men, who no doubt made the real decisions that caused her father's death.  Darlene is no revolutionary at all, she's not even a hero, she's just a common criminal, a murderer, period, end of story.

She certainly ain't no nice girl. Dass fer sure! I think you could take things much further. There is a lot more hatred and meanness in her character and I have a feeling it may well come out before this show is over. She may well wind up killing some very important characters - maybe even her brother?

[Avaleigh]

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I realized just what bugs me about Darlene.  So she kills a woman, a WOC who was a junior lawyer?  Who was probably just there? 

But I notice she didn't go after the main players, who were probably white men, who no doubt made the real decisions that caused her father's death.  Darlene is no revolutionary at all, she's not even a hero, she's just a common criminal, a murderer, period, end of story.

I'm not going to defend Darlene's actions, I agree that she was 100% wrong. I do disagree with the idea that the lawyer was being portrayed as some innocent person who 'was probably just there' as opposed to her being a slimy E Corp lawyer who is dedicated to helping E Corp get away with murdering innocent people and laughing about it. This woman laughed knowing perfectly well that the company she was defending is responsible for a bunch of heinous shit. Darlene remembers the woman's insensitivity and that's what made her stand out to Darlene. 

I get the impression that Darlene is trying to bring down the top people at E Corp and don't think that she is trying to avoid going after the main players because they're likely white men. I haven't seen anything that suggests race is a factor for why Darlene singled out the female lawyer.

I agree that Darlene isn't a hero or a revolutionary but I find the character to be fascinating and am curious to see where she goes from here.  

[Neurochick]

6 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I agree that Darlene isn't a hero or a revolutionary but I find the character to be fascinating and am curious to see where she goes from here. 

I used to think she was okay, but after committing cold blooded murder; killing a woman by using a stun gun to hit her in the pacemaker, whoa, how revolutionary.  I can't defend her at all, I don't even like her and I hope she goes down hard.  Go after the big dogs at E Corp; I mean if all she can remember was this woman laughing when she was four then she's the one who should be locked up, not Elliot.

Darlene is nothing more than a punk and a coward; no different from people who knock old ladies down and steal their pocketbooks.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Neurochick

[Avaleigh]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

I used to think she was okay, but after committing cold blooded murder; killing a woman by using a stun gun to hit her in the pacemaker, whoa, how revolutionary.  I can't defend her at all, I don't even like her and I hope she goes down hard.  Go after the big dogs at E Corp; I mean if all she can remember was this woman laughing when she was four then she's the one who should be locked up, not Elliot.

That woman was one of the big dogs at E Corp. We saw proof of that during her scenes with Price and Scott Knowles. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Avaleigh

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

That woman was one of the big dogs at E Corp. We saw proof of that during her scenes with Price and Scott Knowles. 

I'm sure she wasn't that big a dog, if Darlene remembers her when she was four; that woman could only have been in her late 20's early 30's, and E-Corp is probably like most corporations, male dominated.  I doubt she was that big of a dog, and how "gangsta" can she be to hit a woman's pacemaker with a stun gun?  Like I said, Darlene is a fucking thug IMO, don't like her, don't give a shit what happens to her; you like Darlene, I don't.  Bring back Elliot.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Neurochick

[tankgirl73]

I noticed this last week and it's again this week -- the episode description at the top of the forum is NOT this week's. The episode description on last week's forum left me confused -- I mentioned it but nobody else seemed to care/notice -- but now it makes sense because it was the description for THIS week's episode.

The description at the top of this forum for this week's episode -- "Elliot realizes the repercussions of a power vacuum; fsociety begins to fracture; Darlene must make hard decisions." -- is clearly for next week's episode.

[scrb]

Once they were busted (whether intentionally or not, maybe Darlene allowed her to find them at her home), they either had to kill her or convince her not to turn them in.

Otherwise, f society was done.  The lawyer was bold, confronting the intruders instead of calling the cops when she realized someone was in her home. She tried to fight one of them only to get a knock on her head (and what was she going to do, physically over power all 4 of them?).

Of course Darlene's initial idea to "own her" is also morally questionable, violating her privacy the way Eastern European criminal gangs do with malware and hacks.

As far as the story goes, the lawyer wasn't going to get out of that situation alive and as previously noted, the 5/9 hack probably disrupted and ruined a lot of lives of innocent bystanders.

So these hackers are not cuddly and lovable people.  They may have ideals but they're not above stomping on people to pursue them.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

So these hackers are not cuddly and lovable people.  They may have ideals but they're not above stomping on people to pursue them.

See, I don't even think they have ideals.  To me, they act like selfish children, doing what they want without thinking of the repercussions.  

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

So these hackers are not cuddly and lovable people.  They may have ideals but they're not above stomping on people to pursue them.

I definitely agree with this. I wasn't expecting them to be lovable cuddly people. I'm actually in the minority in that I'm okay with having a lead who isn't a hero or isn't necessarily somebody to root for. I don't need to root for characters to find them watchable and interesting. 

I also suspect that Elliot's hands are just as dirty as Darlene's. It seriously creeps me out that he burned Shayla onto a disc in what seemed to be a kind of ritual.  

I really like that the 5/9 hack didn't work out the way that fsociety hoped it would and that it seems to have only made lives for people worse because that feels more realistic to me. 

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I'm sure she wasn't that big a dog, if Darlene remembers her when she was four; that woman could only have been in her late 20's early 30's, and E-Corp is probably like most corporations, male dominated.  I doubt she was that big of a dog, and how "gangsta" can she be to hit a woman's pacemaker with a stun gun?  Like I said, Darlene is a fucking thug IMO, don't like her, don't give a shit what happens to her; you like Darlene, I don't.  Bring back Elliot.

We'll have to agree to disagree that the lawyer wasn't a big dog in E Corp. I feel like everything we've seen on the show suggests that she was incredibly important. Just the fact that her nickname is the Executioner indicates how much power she had to say nothing of how well she's done within the company and how Price and Knowles treated her like she was a top dog. 

As for the idea that Darlene isn't 'gangsta'. She totally is. Gangsters aren't people to be admired. They're ruthless thugs, so I'd say that's a label that the Darlene character can certainly carry.

I actually didn't say anything about liking the character just that I find her to be fascinating. I find all of the characters on this show to be fascinating but that doesn't mean that I'd want to be friends with these people if they were real or that I somehow don't see their flaws. 

Elliot is also the guy who regularly gave money to a murderous thug like Vera not to mention the little incident where he released dozens of hardened criminals onto the public. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Avaleigh
Edited to change the tense since lawyer lady is dead.

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I really like that the 5/9 hack didn't work out the way that fsociety hoped it would and that it seems to have only made lives for people worse because that feels more realistic to me. 

Yes, I think that is one of the points of this show.  Elliot and Darlene have no "street smarts" or "common sense."  Elliot had Vera arrested and never thought that maybe Vera was smart enough to trace it back to him, thus getting Shayla killed.  It's like when you think you know what's best for everybody, when in reality you don't.  

I'm not fascinated by Darlene at all; to me Angela is a more interesting character; because Angela had a job and everything before f. society fucked it all up, now she's playing both sides of the fence.  

And to me, a gangsta is someone who stands up and fights hand to hand, not what Darlene did, which was a punk ass move IMO; hitting someone in the pacemaker with a stun gun.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Neurochick

[possibilities]

I'm not defending the errors of Darlene or anyone else in fsociety, but ECorp and its minions are not by any stretch of the imagination somehow innocent victims here. The people of ECorp willfully did what they did for profit, knowing the harm it was causing. Fsociety did what they did INTENDING to help people, and INTENDING to stop ECorp's villainy. That they didn't think it through is on them. But it's not worse than ECorp's people who DID and CONTINUE TO think it through, see the evil, and do it anyway for their own selfish reasons.

From Darlene's perspective, fancy lawyer lady not only defended the murder of her father and many others, but laughed about it. It's hard to see why she would be asked to care about that person's well-being after that. Again, I'm not saying she's handled her outrage in the best way, but I don't think she's just randomly acting out, doing it for personal profit knowing the harm it would cause to innocents, or that fsociety in general is as evil as ECorp.

I like that this show explores how people become so bitter and angry and hopeless about justice being served, that they get to the point where they start acting out as vigilantes, even without really having a rational plan. There may not BE a rational plan. They tried the courts first, and that failed. After that, they kind of went crazy, is how I see it.

Again, even within fsociety, there is enough perspective to be horrified about outcomes and choices as they unfold. Trenton and Mobley are well aware of how things didn't work out the way they'd hoped and they don't know how to fix it. We don't know what their original connection is-- did they also have family members who died from ECorp malfeasance? They seem to be less off their rockers than Darlene and Elliot, but we don't know enough about them to know why they are where they are and why they are relatively saner, either.

It's easy to make excuses for people when their misdeeds are discussed but not shown. We have to take Darlene's word for it that the woman laughed. But we don't have reason to disbelieve it, and if it's true, there is a certain cold-blooded logic to Darlene's insanity, no worse than the cold blooded logic of ECorp itself.

I'm not saying I advocate murder as a way to solve a problem. I just don't think it's necessarily any worse to be a murderer for revenge than for profit, and that we've seen lots of murders on this show. Why is Darlene's murdering so much worse than ECorps, or the massacre of Dom's colleagues or the killing of Romero? Why is it suddenly that Darlene is reviled, when all those other plot points have not generated the same kind of outrage and condemnation?

[Rinaldo]

My feeling about the show is that nobody is particularly sympathetic, or supposed to be. It never occurred to me that I was supposed to find Darlene (or anyone else) likable; I don't. This is a bunch of messed-up people on all sides.

[tankgirl73]

Quote

I'm not defending the errors of Darlene or anyone else in fsociety, but ECorp and its minions are not by any stretch of the imagination somehow innocent victims here. The people of ECorp willfully did what they did for profit, knowing the harm it was causing. Fsociety did what they did INTENDING to help people, and INTENDING to stop ECorp's villainy. That they didn't think it through is on them. But it's not worse than ECorp's people who DID and CONTINUE TO think it through, see the evil, and do it anyway for their own selfish reasons.

**APPLAUSE**

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why is Darlene's murdering so much worse than ECorps, or the massacre of Dom's colleagues or the killing of Romero? Why is it suddenly that Darlene is reviled, when all those other plot points have not generated the same kind of outrage and condemnation?

The show's narrative structure has set up the audience to identify with fsociety's mission (at least through the first season.) As in shows like The Sopranos or Breaking Bad, such structures leave us little choice but to enter the plot with these characters and therefore become implicated somewhat in their actions. When such a character steps over a line the viewer feels is morally indefensible there can be a feeling of betrayal. We know Darlene; she's a regular. The perpetrators of those other slaughters are faceless operatives in whom we have no investment.

Having been through many of these debates about the morality of fictional characters, I know that judgment depends upon how we apply our own moral codes. There are absolutists who believe that a million wrongs never make a right. They judge fictional characters as they would real ones and nothing mitigates a cold-blooded murder. There are relativists who say, this action may be bad but what the victim did to the character was worse or what others did to other characters was worse. There are those who say it's fiction and moral considerations are really beside the point. There's no agreement on such questions because people aren't going to stop believing as they do about moral choices by fictional characters.

I'm beginning to think that Darlene brought Mr. Robot out so he could enlist Elliot's skills in her revenge plot against E-Corp. I've never been fond of her but did feel a shock when she killed Jacobs. But she's not real, so I'm not tying myself up in knots to judge her. If psycho murderer Tyrell turned out to be part of Elliot, that would make it harder for me to sympathize with him, but again I wouldn't feel passionate about it the way I did when our family found out a relative by marriage was a pedophile. But that's me and I'm not saying others should approach the subject as I do.

[AliShibaz]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

See, I don't even think they have ideals.  To me, they act like selfish children, doing what they want without thinking of the repercussions.  

And they will pay the price for that. A big heavy price for certain. Foolish people. I'm thinking maybe the reason Elliot wasn't around this week was because he was just embarrassed by their stupid decisions. I know that I would be.

[thuganomics85]

A Mr. Robot episode without either Mr. Robot or Elliot, I see.  Kind of a bold strategy there.

For most part, it worked.  I still missed Rami Malek a bit, but I liked seeing more of F-Society, and them somewhat fall apart once paranoia really set in, and things getting out of hand with the lawyer returning.  Totally had a feeling she wasn't making it out alive, but Darlene doing it on purpose was certainly something.  Interesting that it wasn't someone who seem mainly responsible for what happened to her dad, but someone who was probably only a junior lawyer, but since Darlene saw her laughing, that is what stuck with her, and the one she really wanted to see fall.  Of course, it seems like she was the big cheese now, so it will still be a big "victory" for her to be out of the way, but basically it was mainly an emotional, maybe reckless decision from Darlene.  Interesting.

Have no idea what to make of Mobley and Trenton's fates.  Probably won't find out until next week or maybe even longer.  Trenton's final shot totally reminded me of The Sopranos series finale.  But Mobley being apparently two hours late doesn't bold well for him, I have to think.

Dom seems to getting so much closer now.

Angela was absolutely being classist against the plumber.  But frankly?  He took the most immature, rudest, sexist way possible to make his point, so fuck it.  While I'm sure some of it is probably really how she feels (I remember the scene of the shoe salesman), I think a lot of it was also that she knew that this way would be the way to really bury the knife in him, and after what he said, I can't really get to upset with her.  Had he taken a different approach; even one still firm but less judgmental and crass; then maybe I would hate her for it.  But the way he went at it?  Then he can suck it.

That said, Angela really is at an all time low if she's going off with freaking Duck Phillips (Mark Moses in the house!)  Don Draper or even Roger Sterling, I would understand.  But fucking Duck Phillips, Angela?! 

[Hecate7]

1 hour ago, tankgirl73 said:

**APPLAUSE*

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm not defending the errors of Darlene or anyone else in fsociety, but ECorp and its minions are not by any stretch of the imagination somehow innocent victims here. The people of ECorp willfully did what they did for profit, knowing the harm it was causing. Fsociety did what they did INTENDING to help people, and INTENDING to stop ECorp's villainy. That they didn't think it through is on them. But it's not worse than ECorp's people who DID and CONTINUE TO think it through, see the evil, and do it anyway for their own selfish reasons.

*snip!*

Why is Darlene's murdering so much worse than ECorps, or the massacre of Dom's colleagues or the killing of Romero? Why is it suddenly that Darlene is reviled, when all those other plot points have not generated the same kind of outrage and condemnation?

 

Exactly! This! Why is it ok that Elliot killed Tyrell in cold blood for what appears to be no real reason at all? Why does this lawyer have the right to live at all, let alone live so incredibly extravagantly, when she is sitting on a heap of dead bodies whose murderers she cleared of all charges? Lawyer lady had it coming, actually. Darlene is a mess, but I don't judge her for this particular murder. I get bored with her "little miss badass" act though.

Quote

Angela was absolutely being classist against the plumber.  But frankly?  He took the most immature, rudest, sexist way possible to make his point, so fuck it.  While I'm sure some of it is probably really how she feels (I remember the scene of the shoe salesman), I think a lot of it was also that she knew that this way would be the way to really bury the knife in him, and after what he said, I can't really get to upset with her.  Had he taken a different approach; even one still firm but less judgmental and crass; then maybe I would hate her for it.  But the way he went at it?  Then he can suck it.

 

Angela chose her classist, nasty speech very carefully and deliberately, after thinking over what the plumber had said to her. Frankly it bothered me more that she didn't seem to realize that plumbers make as much money as she does, than that she went after him as hurtfully as possible. We haven't seen Angela's father, and if he can't be bothered to talk to her himself then I don't really care how he feels.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Hecate7