S08.E19: Tomfoolery

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 8/21/2016 at 4:52 AM, Sherry67 said:

 

It wouldn't be the first time some of the ladies have shared the same wiener.

 

 

Too soon?

LOL!!! come on up here and thank the Academy girl. 

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

The discussion was whether it would be consider cheating or not just because the act of sex hasn't occurred.  I contend that to suggest cheating only occurs if genitals are involved is merely an excuse given by the cheater to get out of a jam and a way for the cheatee to whitewash what actually occurred.

 Many people have been cheated on and still go forward with the relationship; but that wasn't point of my comments.  

But if Luann and/or Tom don't consider making out with tongues cheating then it isn't a deal breaker to them. As I have said all along, we just don't have all the pertinent information at this point. All we have is Bethenny's second hand info and it is more than possible that she is exaggerating it (it has gone from a 1 hour long make out session to a 2 hour session in a very public place) to cause maximum humiliation/pain for Luann. Also, just because you (and I) believe tonsil hockey with another woman while engaged to someone else is cheating, doesn't mean everyone else believes that way. LOL

[Yours Truly]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Well, yes we were talking about how the mindset and whether that applies, I suppose.  I was making a general statement of how in love Tom must be if he's swapping tongues with another woman while they are supposed to be in the can't-get-enough-of-each-other stage.  But yes, maybe that is the way Lu views the cheating -- that it aint cheating if genitals weren't engaged!

Or maybe she doesn't consider that particular act to have as much weight with regards to diminishing what they feel for each other. I'm inclined to believe that she doesn't truly condone the mistake but she also doesn't give it enough power that it completely negates the feelings they have for one another.

So I guess, sure it can be considered cheating but it also doesn't have to be that he doesn't truly love her.

I take it to mean that as much as he does love her he still has moments of selfishness as most people do. Indulging in selfish actions doesn't mean he doesn't love her per se it can also mean that he needs to be more conscious of how his poor judgement affects his relationship.

Obviously the official terminology isn't a factor with these two and it's more about circumstance, the magnitude Lu applies to the act, and flexible interpretation of the situation which it seems Lu applied in this case.  I would also think a heartfelt apology and lengthy discussion over the matter also played a part.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Normades]

17 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Really good comparison.

The NBA analogy doesn't work as well for me.  Going on what has been said here, the UES is a small community, Tom dated Ramona and both have said there was no connection.  He also dated and is engaged to LuAnn.  The Sonja story is too murky for me to give much consideration despite her desperate cries of being "lovers."  With Sonja, I know they were together between 1 and 100 times in the past, ranging between 9 years and 364 days ago and sometime last Thanksgiving before meeting his mother --- again, too murky for me.  But, yes he did date three of them at some point.  I think a groupie goes along and wants to be near the cast/team at almost any cost.  A groupie would have latched on to Ramona or tried to many years ago or would have ensured any Sonja hook ups saw the light of day.  From what I see, Tom dated them, but did not go public or try to hang around RH events in the background.  When he met LuAnn and had a real connection, he had a presence on the show.  I don't think he loves the camera (I'm looking at you, Adam and John) which is why he seemed very uncomfortable at the party.  To me, there has to be more to his behavior other than dating women from a certain group before I can call him a groupie.  Plus, I think if he wanted to be on the show and was such a groupie, if he merely mentioned it to Sonja he would have been on.  Remember the whole stupid Harry Dubin chapter?  She would have been thrilled to have Tom give her a CZ ring, no matter how gauche or cloudy.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

You all are nicer than I am.

I wouldn't want to marry someone who when a "rough patch" was hit was in a bar making out with someone else while we were engaged.  If that rough patch meant the wedding was called off and they were on a break, then that's different.  Otherwise, you have someone who is not only disrespectful enough of his fiance to cheat, but you also have someone disrespectful enough to not even offer the slightest bit of discretion and is making out in public.. 

And I also don't buy the old "you caught me before anything really happened."  They may have started making out and the bar and worked their way back to each other's places for the swapping of body parts.

But that's me.  Cheating so early into the relationship doesn't bode well for the person who believes she found her soulmate.

Had Tom and his tonsil hockey teammate left together, Bethenny would have broadcast that fact from the rooftops by now! LOL

[Duke2801]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 9:20 AM, Yours Truly said:

No Comparision.

A twitter cat fight and disapproving a relationship?

Yawn.

The ponies are by the pool with that one.

It went well beyond Twitter. But whatever. This thread isn't the place for that discussion. 

Double yawn to this ad-nauseam defense of Lu as some frail, helpless victim.  Lu has put herself directly IN the fray now for nearly a decade.  She's no reality TV newbie.  

I don't excuse Bethenny for being a callous cow this episode and this season (plus last season), just as I don't excuse Lu for being a cruel, demeaning bitch at times throughout the past 8 years.  What goes around comes around, LuLu. 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Duke2801

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, Normades said:

I can understand giving someone I love a chance for redemption, but maybe as YourTruly so eloquently put it "as I've gotten older, my position has softened."  I would want to be given a chance to change for the better. 

Age may have something to do with it.  But it could also be that some people have less tolerance for bullshit than others.  

The kind of BS that Tom handed Luann, whether it was a full fledged, hands entangled in the Bunny's hair, sweat inducing, face sucking session that Beth is portraying - or one slow tongue kiss is something I could never, ever tolerate from a guy I wasn't even married to yet. 

I see the difference between stealing a pencil and robbing an old lady.

But there's also a difference between your fiancé kissing a woman the night before your engagement party and your husband of 20 years doing it.  For me, my fiancé would be done like dinner, regardless of the circumstance.  Buh bye.  So might my husband.  But I'd put more consideration in ending my marriage than with some cheater than I'm not wed to, yet.

[izabella]

13 minutes ago, Normades said:

The Sonja story is too murky for me to give much consideration despite her desperate cries of being "lovers."

It's intersting that Sonja never called him her lover until Carole said it to her...."in another time he would be called your lover."  Sonja grabbed onto that and has been calling him that ever since.  Next thing you know, she'll show us a murky cubic zirconia and tell us Tom gave it to her.

Lol, Carole!  No, in no time would he be called her lover since he was only a late nite fwb and not a lover.  This is not chick-lit, and Sonja isn't Carrie Bradshaw with her Russian artist love-ah.

[Natalie68]

1 minute ago, Normades said:

The NBA analogy doesn't work as well for me.  Going on what has been said here, the UES is a small community, Tom dated Ramona and both have said there was no connection.  He also dated and is engaged to LuAnn.  The Sonja story is too murky for me to give much consideration despite her desperate cries of being "lovers."  With Sonja, I know they were together between 1 and 100 times in the past, ranging between 9 years and 364 days ago and sometime last Thanksgiving before meeting his mother --- again, too murky for me.  But, yes he did date three of them at some point.  I think a groupie goes along and wants to be near the cast/team at almost any cost.  A groupie would have latched on to Ramona or tried to many years ago or would have ensured any Sonja hook ups saw the light of day.  From what I see, Tom dated them, but did not go public or try to hang around RH events in the background.  When he met LuAnn and had a real connection, he had a presence on the show.  I don't think he loves the camera (I'm looking at you, Adam and John) which is why he seemed very uncomfortable at the party.  To me, there has to be more to his behavior other than dating women from a certain group before I can call him a groupie.  Plus, I think if he wanted to be on the show and was such a groupie, if he merely mentioned it to Sonja he would have been on.  Remember the whole stupid Harry Dubin chapter?  She would have been thrilled to have Tom give her a CZ ring, no matter how gauche or cloudy.

Why I think its a good comparison is not just because UES is small but because of the show.  Surely there are single men in the UES that haven't been intimate with 1/2 the cast.  I think his character is in question and I think her picker is off when it comes to men (she seems to have no problem admitting to sleeping with creepy men as evidenced by the Ibiza dude, that would be a what happens in Ibiza stays in Ibiza event!).  Not just because of the fact he's got a thing for a small group of friends and castmates but he is also a cheat.  If Lu doesn't think its cheating that's her opinion and her right.  Let's say he only went out with Ramona once, Sonja once, and now is engaged to Lu after 3 months or so.  He is still a skeeve. 

I work in a small office with as many women as there are housewives on this show.  If the same scenario had happened in our office it would not only be a distraction from actual work it would make it super uncomfortable.  If I liked the coworker I would be compelled to say something and the dud would always get the hairy eyeball from me.

Its Lu's life to live as she sees fit.  If she doesn't care no one should.  BUT he is gross in my opinion and she COULD do better.  

[zoeysmom]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 7:51 PM, sasha206 said:

Maybe so, but if RHONY were the NY Knicks and the same woman had dated 3 members of a basketball team, I'd feel perfectly comfortable calling that woman a groupie and not chalk it up to it being a small town.  The cast is small; he's supposedly already been through 1/2 of it.  Surely, there are other women in NYC that he could feel hit by an asteroid by (and maybe manage actually keeping his tongue out of someone who isn't his finance?)

And come on, do you *really* think people don't consider sticking your tongue down someone else's throat in a make-out session isn't cheating because they haven't swapped genital parts yet?  When did this become the norm?  That may be the line they use on the woman who desperately wants to believe her man didn't *actually cheat* but if you saw your neighbor's husband in a passionate makeout session with someone other than his wife, you'd call it cheating.  If you saw your kid's fiance in passionate makeout session, you'd call it cheating.  Maybe the cheater is using that as an excuse to get out of being considered a cheater, but that defies credulity.

Luann is a beautiful, elegant woman.  Or she was before she started pushing this desperate soulmate storyline.  I have no doubt a man wouldn't feel like he was struck by her.  But all I need to know about this guy is he's (supposedly) dated 1/2 the cast, engaged to one, and is playing tonsil hockey with someone else shortly after the asteroid hit him.  Maybe he never dated Ramona or was Sonja's 10 year fuck-mate.  But he's admitted to the "actions he regrets" because they "hit a rough patch."  So I feel fine in judging him to be an asshole based on that alone.

So if the woman is a cheerleader for the Knicks does it change things?  Does she really need be labelled?  If you are attending a college and are say an arts major in a relatively small department, and you date one person, while involved in a serious relationship, have a one night stand with another and marry someone else, all from the same small circle and in fact may have had group shows with seven people what would you be called?  Would the other artist who one dabbled with be invited to the wedding or would they ever again be part of a group show?

Why should any of these women be concerned with who either of them dated in the past?  I guarantee if George Clooney were single and approached any of the women, no one would look to label George or the RH who dated, had a night stand or married him because Carole allegedly had a year long thing with him.   In the stupid Girl Code, if a guy is popular the rules of dating an ex don't apply.  In this case one could hardly consider Ramona an ex, Sonja becomes more and more specious every time she opens her yap.   Now the tiara wearing Sonja has him as someone she could summon up when she had the urge-on her terms.  I wonder how deep the Queen's stud stable is? 

Ramona didn't seem to have any problems dating Tom when she was in a serious relationship with another man, why should it bother her if he is with Luann?  Or if he and Sonja banged? 

I do think Tom was an asshole for making out with another woman while engaged to Luann simply because he was the one who said he couldn't wait to propose to Luann.  Is he still an asshole-that remains to be seen.  Sonja didn't seem to have any problems attending Luann's surprise party in May.  I would say the thing perhaps keeping Sonja and Tom from being on cordial terms is their inability to agree what exactly their friendship/friends with benefits/lover status entailed.  Most of all I think Sonja does not once again want to be considered a third wheel. When Sonja hung out with Mario and Ramona she liked the attention he gave her.  I think she liked Mario fussing and ogling her.  I don't see her being able to pull that off with Tom and Luann.

[Yours Truly]

7 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

But if Luann and/or Tom don't consider making out with tongues cheating then it isn't a deal breaker to them. As I have said all along, we just don't have all the pertinent information at this point. All we have is Bethenny's second hand info and it is more than possible that she is exaggerating it (it has gone from a 1 hour long make out session to a 2 hour session in a very public place) to cause maximum humiliation/pain for Luann. Also, just because you (and I) believe tonsil hockey with another woman while engaged to someone else is cheating, doesn't mean everyone else believes that way. LOL

This is so very true too. I mean what the hell do they have. What kind of pictures? Were they playing tonsil hockey or were they conodoling and flirting and he was just getting a little too inappropriate with personal space while this "playboy bunny" was also leaning in stealing pecks (which he was stupid to allow).  I just get the feeling tonsil hockey and make out sessions is an exaggeration...

I hang out at my local bar, it's a cool place nothing major, not a dive but definitely NOT the Regency. We've got mostly 30 somethings, 40 something and a bit older and sometimes youngins in their 20's but yeah that's the crowd and UMMMM making out and making spectacles of ourselves.. Just very unlikely. I'm going to admit I actually did that one night with a dude I met there that night and had a couple of dates with afterwards (when I first started to hang out there) and now that I'm a regular and am used to the basic vibe of the place I'm ALWAYS embarrassed about the way I was hanging all over him and making out at the bar all night. Especially now that I know everyone, they know me and now that I'm more in tune with the atmosphere, which is low key chill and not a dive bar or loud club where those sort of antics don't really stand out. 

So with that said I find it hard to believe that Beth's accounts are what really went down in a place like the Regency.  It just doesn't seem to ring true that Tom would be engaged in such blatantly crude behavior, not unless he's THAT guy but then wouldn't that have already seeped into the chatter? Like Tom? Oh wow, I know him. Sloppy, drunken playboy that hits on everything in a skirt and engages in constant inappropriate PDA's all over the UES. We know he's been on the market and has been shopping but I would think that if these were his normal antics then it would have already been included in the gossip before now.  I'm more inclined to believe that it wasn't as extreme as all that and what did transpire was something that Lu and Tom was obviously able to work through. I highly doubt the scene played out that way.

But I definitely could be wrong.

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, izabella said:

It's intersting that Sonja never called him her lover until Carole said it to her...."in another time he would be called your lover."  Sonja grabbed onto that and has been calling him that ever since.  Next thing you know, she'll show us a murky cubic zirconia and tell us Tom gave it to her.

Lol, Carole!  No, in no time would he be called her lover since he was only a late nite fwb and not a lover.  This is not chick-lit, and Sonja isn't Carrie Bradshaw with her Russian artist love-ah.

What was it that Bethenny called Sonja, when Carole and Ramona met up with her at her apartment before the Miami trip? It was something along the lines of her being a possible issue/problem for Luann/Tom at the engagement party. Next thing we know/see is Ramona/Carole upping Sonja's "relationship" with Tom from FWB to lover about to meet his mother, like they are trying to work her into sabotaging Luann's engagement party. All done at Bethenny's suggestion and with her blessing.

[Yours Truly]

26 minutes ago, Normades said:

The NBA analogy doesn't work as well for me.  Going on what has been said here, the UES is a small community, Tom dated Ramona and both have said there was no connection.  He also dated and is engaged to LuAnn.  The Sonja story is too murky for me to give much consideration despite her desperate cries of being "lovers."  With Sonja, I know they were together between 1 and 100 times in the past, ranging between 9 years and 364 days ago and sometime last Thanksgiving before meeting his mother --- again, too murky for me.  But, yes he did date three of them at some point.  I think a groupie goes along and wants to be near the cast/team at almost any cost.  A groupie would have latched on to Ramona or tried to many years ago or would have ensured any Sonja hook ups saw the light of day.  From what I see, Tom dated them, but did not go public or try to hang around RH events in the background.  When he met LuAnn and had a real connection, he had a presence on the show.  I don't think he loves the camera (I'm looking at you, Adam and John) which is why he seemed very uncomfortable at the party.  To me, there has to be more to his behavior other than dating women from a certain group before I can call him a groupie.  Plus, I think if he wanted to be on the show and was such a groupie, if he merely mentioned it to Sonja he would have been on.  Remember the whole stupid Harry Dubin chapter?  She would have been thrilled to have Tom give her a CZ ring, no matter how gauche or cloudy.

Yeah, you don't really need to be that conniving to get on the damn show. ESPECIALLY if your in is Sonja. She LOVES showing off how many men just ADORE her so if Tom really wanted to show up he could have just given Sonja a call and she would have complied. Much in the same manner she complies when he rings her for sex. So this whole Tom was just bouncing off the walls desperately waiting for his way in for the last 7-9 years seems like such a stretch.

[KungFuBunny]

On 8/20/2016 at 10:51 PM, sasha206 said:

Maybe so, but if RHONY were the NY Knicks and the same woman had dated 3 members of a basketball team, I'd feel perfectly comfortable calling that woman a groupie and not chalk it up to it being a small town.  The cast is small; he's supposedly already been through 1/2 of it.  Surely, there are other women in NYC that he could feel hit by an asteroid by (and maybe manage actually keeping his tongue out of someone who isn't his finance?)

And come on, do you *really* think people don't consider sticking your tongue down someone else's throat in a make-out session isn't cheating because they haven't swapped genital parts yet?  When did this become the norm?  That may be the line they use on the woman who desperately wants to believe her man didn't *actually cheat* but if you saw your neighbor's husband in a passionate makeout session with someone other than his wife, you'd call it cheating.  If you saw your kid's fiance in passionate makeout session, you'd call it cheating.  Maybe the cheater is using that as an excuse to get out of being considered a cheater, but that defies credulity.

Luann is a beautiful, elegant woman.  Or she was before she started pushing this desperate soulmate storyline.  I have no doubt a man wouldn't feel like he was struck by her.  But all I need to know about this guy is he's (supposedly) dated 1/2 the cast, engaged to one, and is playing tonsil hockey with someone else shortly after the asteroid hit him.  Maybe he never dated Ramona or was Sonja's 10 year fuck-mate.  But he's admitted to the "actions he regrets" because they "hit a rough patch."  So I feel fine in judging him to be an asshole based on that alone.

Another sad thing, the Regency is a spot this small group frequents. So not only are there pictures, they probably have acquaintances and friends who witnessed the saliva swap meet. Tom being so serious with Luanne must have known the filming schedule at least to the point where he knows it was ending soon. If he was going to suck spit he should have chosen a spot not in NY and waited a few weeks.

I also don’t understand his rough patch comment. What happened in the 2 weeks after he gave Luanne her ring?

So:

Dorinda = Village Idiot

Bethenny = Town Crier

Tom = Village Bicycle – everyone gets to ride

I also would not be surprised if mystery girl comes out with an interview after the finale and reunion airs

[zoeysmom]

I posted the video of the conversation between Tom and Luann when she confronts him over on First Looks.  Here it is as a spoiler

Spoiler

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/luann-de-lesseps-confronts-fiance-tom-in-rhony-finale-w435476

I guess discussion should be on First Looks?

[Normades]

14 minutes ago, izabella said:

It's intersting that Sonja never called him her lover until Carole said it to her...."in another time he would be called your lover."  Sonja grabbed onto that and has been calling him that ever since.  Next thing you know, she'll show us a murky cubic zirconia and tell us Tom gave it to her.

Lol, Carole!  No, in no time would he be called her lover since he was only a late nite fwb and not a lover.  This is not chick-lit, and Sonja isn't Carrie Bradshaw with her Russian artist love-ah.

Yes, quite interesting.  Also remember that when Tom casually said that Ramona smelled like grapefruit, Carole turned it into the cutest thing a man has EVER said to a woman.  Maybe I've gotten so old that I'm missing something.  Is grapefruit some kind of code or something??  

Carole is so obviously winding up both Ramona and Sonja and using them to take shots at LuAnn.  Most likely at B's direction. YMMV

[izabella]

Just now, KungFuBunny said:

I also don’t understand his rough patch comment. What happened in the 2 weeks after he gave Luanne her ring?

Bethenny told some tabloid that he had been banging Ramona and Sonja?

1 minute ago, Normades said:

Yes, quite interesting.  Also remember that when Tom casually said that Ramona smelled like grapefruit, Carole turned it into the cutest thing a man has EVER said to a woman.  Maybe I've gotten so old that I'm missing something.  Is grapefruit some kind of code or something??  

Carole is so obviously winding up both Ramona and Sonja and using them to take shots at LuAnn.  Most likely at B's direction. YMMV

Yes, grapefruit is code for:  your breath smells like pinot grigio and you've had so much of it you either spilled it on yourself or it is seeping out of your sweaty pores.

[Normades]

3 minutes ago, izabella said:

Bethenny told some tabloid that he had been banging Ramona and Sonja?

Yes, grapefruit is code for:  your breath smells like pinot grigio and you've had so much of it you either spilled it on yourself or it is seeping out of your sweaty pores.

Why, thank you.  I'll keep that in mind if anyone ever says it to me!  

The things you learn from RHNY!

[Yours Truly]

21 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

It went well beyond Twitter. But whatever. This thread isn't the place for that discussion. 

Double yawn to this ad-nauseam defense of Lu as some frail, helpless victim.  Lu has put herself directly IN the fray now for nearly a decade.  She's no reality TV newbie.  

I don't excuse Bethenny for being a callous cow this episode and this season (plus last season), just as I don't excuse Lu for being a cruel, demeaning bitch at times throughout the past 8 years.  What goes around comes around, LuLu. 

That it infiltrates each episode discussion is what truly boggles is all.

"Beth stabbed Lu with the butter knife in the study and she's bleeding all over the carpet, no not Beth and her fibrods Lu, she critically injured, poor Lu"

-Yeah, but she went CAAHHH RAAAYYYY ZEEEE on Carol and Adam so whatev...

It's gone waaaayyy passed it's expiration date for me.

I call statue of limitations on that one is all. LOL.

[zoeysmom]

Well Luann got blasted for saying it was uncool for Carole to date her niece's ex-boyfriend.  Apparently, it is okay for a guy to trade up from a friend/relative of a RH, who was brought on strictly for self promotion, by one RH but very wrong for a guy to marry a RH because he banged another RH at some point in the past and has never used the show to promote his business.

I think the lines have become so blurred it is time to move on.

Carole has said she and Adam see Nicole and have no issues.  I wonder if Adam has ever mentioned Nicole smells like grapefruit.  Apparently, it didn't bother Carole for Adam and Nicole to travel to Central America together in the name of charity.  For some reason Carole is incredibly vested in seeing Tom with Sonja and Ramona. . . seems odd.

[WireWrap]

31 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

It went well beyond Twitter. But whatever. This thread isn't the place for that discussion. 

Double yawn to this ad-nauseam defense of Lu as some frail, helpless victim.  Lu has put herself directly IN the fray now for nearly a decade.  She's no reality TV newbie.  

I don't excuse Bethenny for being a callous cow this episode and this season (plus last season), just as I don't excuse Lu for being a cruel, demeaning bitch at times throughout the past 8 years.  What goes around comes around, LuLu. 

What Luann did to Carole over Adam was nasty, without a doubt, but it did not rise to this level of ugly IMO. 

I also don't think anyone is saying that Luann is some frail, helpless victim either. Yes, Luann has slung her share of mud at others but she has never gotten her rocks off in doing so like Bethenny has/does. It is a big difference IMO, Bethenny enjoys eviscerating whoever her current target is at that moment. The others, Luann included, have their say, throw some mud but stop short of destroying another HW. Bethenny not only doesn't stop, she keeps at them until there is nothing left, laughing the entire time with her eyes sparkling in orgasmic glee. 

If anyone needs to worry about "What goes around", it is Bethenny and even I wouldn't wish that on her because it will be bad when it happens, ugly bad.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

So if the woman is a cheerleader for the Knicks does it change things?  Does she really need be labelled?  If you are attending a college and are say an arts major in a relatively small department, and you date one person, while involved in a serious relationship, have a one night stand with another and marry someone else, all from the same small circle and in fact may have had group shows with seven people what would you be called?  Would the other artist who one dabbled with be invited to the wedding or would they ever again be part of a group show?

Why should any of these women be concerned with who either of them dated in the past?  I guarantee if George Clooney were single and approached any of the women, no one would look to label George or the RH who dated, had a night stand or married him because Carole allegedly had a year long thing with him.   In the stupid Girl Code, if a guy is popular the rules of dating an ex don't apply.  In this case one could hardly consider Ramona an ex, Sonja becomes more and more specious every time she opens her yap.   Now the tiara wearing Sonja has him as someone she could summon up when she had the urge-on her terms.  I wonder how deep the Queen's stud stable is? 

Ramona didn't seem to have any problems dating Tom when she was in a serious relationship with another man, why should it bother her if he is with Luann?  Or if he and Sonja banged? 

I do think Tom was an asshole for making out with another woman while engaged to Luann simply because he was the one who said he couldn't wait to propose to Luann.  Is he still an asshole-that remains to be seen.  Sonja didn't seem to have any problems attending Luann's surprise party in May.  I would say the thing perhaps keeping Sonja and Tom from being on cordial terms is their inability to agree what exactly their friendship/friends with benefits/lover status entailed.  Most of all I think Sonja does not once again want to be considered a third wheel. When Sonja hung out with Mario and Ramona she liked the attention he gave her.  I think she liked Mario fussing and ogling her.  I don't see her being able to pull that off with Tom and Luann.

And I think that's what bugs Sonja the most. That she can't run around and use that as some sexy one up on Lu by not being allowed to add that very juicy connection they all have in future situations. I will bet hands down that if Sonja were allowed to turn their connection into some sexy flirty joking anecdote at group functions where it can be noted that the groom to be had eyes for Sonja but that in all graciousness Sonja was still able to be jovial over his engagement to Lu just as long as he knows that "he better behave himself since Sonja has no intentions of being the other woman or hurting her girl Lu..." wink, wink <end inappropriate self centered joke> One that implies that Tom would most certainly still be trying to continue their arrangement cause she's just that intoxicating. More like intoxicatED... <eyeroll>

She wants to still play the role of sexy vixen to Lu's wive role and thought she would be allowed to play it out in order to stroke her ego and with their blessing to boot. I mean saw just how much in her element she was around Ramona and Mario making comments about being in the shower together (when mario had to fix a shower knob that one time) and her practically slipping out of her loosely tied silk robe wearing nothing underneath. That women LIVES to have YOUR man salivate over her. At all costs too. That's one thing I truly dislike about her.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

http://www.realitytea.com/2016/08/22/bethenny-frankel-wouldnt-tell-luann-de-lesseps-toms-cheating/

I guess Bethenny is feeling the fall out for her behavior.  You can't mention it on camera and then take some sort of road I would not tell her.   Sonja had it correct the first time,tell Tom.  Let him deal with it and Luann be the one to let the others know he made her aware and the decision she made regarding their relationship.

bethenny thought this through, she did talking heads and even claimed to be gloating, she set it up over three days and now has to live with her choices. I guess she figured cutting bangs would absolve her of bad press. 

[sasha206]

Since I'm the one that did the NBA analogy, the point went to intent of why you are dating a famous person, particularly if you're dating famous people that are on the same team, the same cast.  Are you dating them for them, or their fame?

If you are a woman who has dated 3 men on a basketball team, is it because you just run in the same circles as they do?  Or is it larger than that:  You want a basketball player because you like what goes along with being a girlfriend of an NBA player.  Believe me, women who date multiple players on a team -- whether you call them groupies or other -- aren't well thought of by those athletes.  You're simply someone who is being passed around.

The reason I made that analogy was I questioned whether Tom is in this relationship with Lu b/c he's bit hit by the asteroid of love with her or whether he's just another fame whore who enjoys the perks of dating a Bravolebrity.  And maybe Lu is the only one he could feel proud to have on his arm.

He may deny he dated Ramona, but Radar Online ran a story about it -- it was certainly gossiped enough that makes me believe Ramona.   I don't believe he's been a fuckmate of Sonja's for 10 years, but I'll bet at one time he was a friend with benefits.

Now you fast forward to the fact that he apparently has been with someone else in an intimate sense when they hit a rough patch.   What does that really say about this guy?  He is a cheat.  That's what that says.  I'm actually surprised that people seem to be whitewashing it.  Is it because of the messenger?  I can't stand Bethenny but the guy has already come out and said he regretted the actions.  So he's clearly guilty of something.  

[WireWrap]

14 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

http://www.realitytea.com/2016/08/22/bethenny-frankel-wouldnt-tell-luann-de-lesseps-toms-cheating/

I guess Bethenny is feeling the fall out for her behavior.  You can't mention it on camera and then take some sort of road I would not tell her.   Sonja had it correct the first time,tell Tom.  Let him deal with it and Luann be the one to let the others know he made her aware and the decision she made regarding their relationship.

bethenny thought this through, she did talking heads and even claimed to be gloating, she set it up over three days and now has to live with her choices. I guess she figured cutting bangs would absolve her of bad press. 

2 things from her interview. First this, Bethenny says "“I think, frankly, that they both are OK with the way that they are living their lives and I wouldn’t do it again. Now, I wouldn’t tell her again.”" (I bolded) Is she trying to claim that Luann/Tom have an open relationship and that is why they moved past this incident and are still planning on getting married? She is still trying to throw mud and hoping that no one see it!

Second, "On why she shared the information with her co-stars before she revealed it to Luann, she says it’s because the other ladies already had their own “stories” about Tom.  “There were a lot of red flags from the other housewives saying multiple different stories.”" So now it is the other HWs, Ramona's/Sonja's, fault that Bethenny did it! LOL GTFOH! This ranks right up there with her "You made me go there" excuse blaming her victims when she goes ballistic on them over nothing.

[KungFuBunny]

Real Housewives Season 9

Bravo decides to film Luanne’s wedding on the condition that all cast members attend (Bethenny, Carole, Ramona, Dorinda, + new HW)

If anyone objects to this marriage, let them speak now or forever hold their peace…

Sonja who’s not even a Friend Of HW, bursts in “I do” holding up her frayed diary with Sharpie squiggles wearing her Mrs Haversham Wedding Gown and Party City tiara

Yep….I’m in

[sasha206]

6 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

2 things from her interview. First this, Bethenny says "“I think, frankly, that they both are OK with the way that they are living their lives and I wouldn’t do it again. Now, I wouldn’t tell her again.”" (I bolded) Is she trying to claim that Luann/Tom have an open relationship and that is why they moved past this incident and are still planning on getting married? She is still trying to throw mud and hoping that no one see it!

Second, "On why she shared the information with her co-stars before she revealed it to Luann, she says it’s because the other ladies already had their own “stories” about Tom.  “There were a lot of red flags from the other housewives saying multiple different stories.”" So now it is the other HWs, Ramona's/Sonja's, fault that Bethenny did it! LOL GTFOH! This ranks right up there with her "You made me go there" excuse blaming her victims when she goes ballistic on them over nothing.

It's funny though -- I can't stand Bethenny.  I don't believe for one second that her decision was something she struggled with.  Nor do I think she was devastated for hurting Lu.  That said, I don't blame her for the actually telling of this to Lu.  I would bet most of us in receipt of this information about someone who supposedly dated 1/2 the group would share that the person you are telling us is your soulmate is out in public canoodling with someone else.  

If Lu is okay with it, then that's her choice.  But I can't imagine NOT sharing that information, especially with someone who is in a whirlwind romance with someone else who may not be all he appears to be.

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

It's funny though -- I can't stand Bethenny.  I don't believe for one second that her decision was something she struggled with.  Nor do I think she was devastated for hurting Lu.  That said, I don't blame her for the actually telling of this to Lu.  I would bet most of us in receipt of this information about someone who supposedly dated 1/2 the group would share that the person you are telling us is your soulmate is out in public canoodling with someone else.  

If Lu is okay with it, then that's her choice.  But I can't imagine NOT sharing that information, especially with someone who is in a whirlwind romance with someone else who may not be all he appears to be.

Bethenny telling Luann about this isn't what upsets/bothers me, it is how she did it, why she did it and the glee/joy she took in doing it. I agree, she didn't "struggle" telling Luann, not for a second. 

[sasha206]

Just now, WireWrap said:

Bethenny telling Luann about this isn't what upsets/bothers me, it is how she did it, why she did it and the glee/joy she took in doing it. I agree, she didn't "struggle" telling Luann, not for a second. 

On that we definitely agree!  Her fake tears and fake anguish after breaking the news said it all to me.  

[zoeysmom]

42 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Since I'm the one that did the NBA analogy, the point went to intent of why you are dating a famous person, particularly if you're dating famous people that are on the same team, the same cast.  Are you dating them for them, or their fame?

If you are a woman who has dated 3 men on a basketball team, is it because you just run in the same circles as they do?  Or is it larger than that:  You want a basketball player because you like what goes along with being a girlfriend of an NBA player.  Believe me, women who date multiple players on a team -- whether you call them groupies or other -- aren't well thought of by those athletes.  You're simply someone who is being passed around.

The reason I made that analogy was I questioned whether Tom is in this relationship with Lu b/c he's bit hit by the asteroid of love with her or whether he's just another fame whore who enjoys the perks of dating a Bravolebrity.  And maybe Lu is the only one he could feel proud to have on his arm.

He may deny he dated Ramona, but Radar Online ran a story about it -- it was certainly gossiped enough that makes me believe Ramona.   I don't believe he's been a fuckmate of Sonja's for 10 years, but I'll bet at one time he was a friend with benefits.

Now you fast forward to the fact that he apparently has been with someone else in an intimate sense when they hit a rough patch.   What does that really say about this guy?  He is a cheat.  That's what that says.  I'm actually surprised that people seem to be whitewashing it.  Is it because of the messenger?  I can't stand Bethenny but the guy has already come out and said he regretted the actions.  So he's clearly guilty of something.  

Is this the Radar On Line, where Ramona who does give stories about she and Tom claims they went out 12 times?   http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/ramona-singer-blasts-luann-de-lesseps-relationship-built-on-lies/

Here is what I think of Tom.  I think he is a guy that wasn't really into commitment, probably didn't really treat women poorly, but just wasn't a really good catch emotionally.  I think he likes or hopefully liked the game, liked the attention and when he left the relationship be it a one night stand, a three month relationship, didn't burn bridges.  Hopefully the woman who got the gold bracelet was the one he was with the night he got hit by the asteroid after meeting Luann.  He may have really polished lines of BS, he may not be deep.  I don't think he saw a reason to hold it against a woman because they had sex and the relationship went nowhere.  Why should he?  It would be a dick move.  Maybe he valued the woman as more of friend he was intimate with than a conquest.  It is kind of the idea Sonja is putting out there-initially, until he became her lover and some sort of male concubine to the Queen. There was probably a lot of flattery and lovely parting gifts.  So when he met Luann, and I am thinking things got serious over the holidays, he perhaps had not really cleaned up the loose ends.  He reminds me a bit of the character Samantha from Sex and the City  she made a few bad choices when she would get jealous.  So when Luann came along, I think he of big ego, maybe didn't know how to let go of the bachelor/player, personality he had developed over the years.  The dick move was going out the night Luann left town.  Pick up some take out go home and watch the golf channel.  After the week of publicity he had endured the last thing he should be doing is frequenting one of his haunts.

So Sonja being upset by his departure from his life probably felt more like a betrayal than anything else.  The guy was looking at having to film with both Sonja and Ramona within 10 days after a couple of pretty inflammatory stories ran and in addition to the cameras, he would have all the guests and Carole seeing how he handled himself. 

He is guilty of being a dick in the first degree.  It is up to Luann to see if she get past his dick move and show him there are ways to commit and ways to be social with exes be them three month relationships or 16 year marriages.    He better be a quick learner because the world is watching.  I am so hoping the woman comes forward and sells  tells her story.

[SweetieDarling]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

But if Luann and/or Tom don't consider making out with tongues cheating then it isn't a deal breaker to them. As I have said all along, we just don't have all the pertinent information at this point. All we have is Bethenny's second hand info and it is more than possible that she is exaggerating it (it has gone from a 1 hour long make out session to a 2 hour session in a very public place) to cause maximum humiliation/pain for Luann. Also, just because you (and I) believe tonsil hockey with another woman while engaged to someone else is cheating, doesn't mean everyone else believes that way. LOL

Maybe she was an old Italian friend that he ran into ;)

[Duke2801]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

What Luann did to Carole over Adam was nasty, without a doubt, but it did not rise to this level of ugly IMO. 

I also don't think anyone is saying that Luann is some frail, helpless victim either. Yes, Luann has slung her share of mud at others but she has never gotten her rocks off in doing so like Bethenny has/does. It is a big difference IMO, Bethenny enjoys eviscerating whoever her current target is at that moment. The others, Luann included, have their say, throw some mud but stop short of destroying another HW. Bethenny not only doesn't stop, she keeps at them until there is nothing left, laughing the entire time with her eyes sparkling in orgasmic glee. 

If anyone needs to worry about "What goes around", it is Bethenny and even I wouldn't wish that on her because it will be bad when it happens, ugly bad.

Replied in the Luanne thread. :)

[Celia Rubenstein]

2 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

Double yawn to this ad-nauseam defense of Lu as some frail, helpless victim.  Lu has put herself directly IN the fray now for nearly a decade.  She's no reality TV newbie.  

I don't excuse Bethenny for being a callous cow this episode and this season (plus last season), just as I don't excuse Lu for being a cruel, demeaning bitch at times throughout the past 8 years.  What goes around comes around, LuLu. 

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

What Luann did to Carole over Adam was nasty, without a doubt, but it did not rise to this level of ugly IMO. 

I also don't think anyone is saying that Luann is some frail, helpless victim either. Yes, Luann has slung her share of mud at others but she has never gotten her rocks off in doing so like Bethenny has/does. It is a big difference IMO, Bethenny enjoys eviscerating whoever her current target is at that moment. The others, Luann included, have their say, throw some mud but stop short of destroying another HW. Bethenny not only doesn't stop, she keeps at them until there is nothing left, laughing the entire time with her eyes sparkling in orgasmic glee. 

 

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny telling Luann about this isn't what upsets/bothers me, it is how she did it, why she did it and the glee/joy she took in doing it.

Would it be better if Bethenny had been as slick and guileful as Luann was when she and Jill stuck their shivs in Ramona in Morocco?

Because they totally set Ramona up with that "psychic," you realize.   The whole thing was a carefully laid plan to expose the rumors about Mario cheating on the air and humiliate Ramona.  Their fake concern for the state of their friend's marriage was actually kind of insulting to my intelligence.  It was just a way to stick more pins in under the guise of innocent discussion.  They intended to come across as sincere friends but it felt more like I was watching some old hags around a bubbling cauldron.  

I think I'd prefer if they had just looked right into the camera a laughed like Bethenny supposedly did.  It would have been more honest.

If it is the level of potential destruction of another housewife that makes the difference, again I think what Jill and Lu did to Ramona was worse.  Ramona was actually married to Mario, for almost 20 years at that point.  They had a daughter, Avery, young enough to still be living at home but old enough to be pained by their little scheme.  Lu has what, six months? invested in this clown.  They don't even live together.  They don't have kids.  The potential harm of Bethenny letting Luann know Tom was catting around town is nothing compared to what Jill and Lu risked setting in motion in Ramona's life. 

Sure the little psychic reading scheme was clever and funny.  Lu and Jill maintained plausible deniability which was brilliant. And it made for good TV (so good that I am sure someone is about to tell me it was all real, lol).  But let's not pretend that Lu and Jill didn't experience the same level of joy that Bethenny supposedly took in getting to burn Luann.  They just had the good sense not to gloat about it openly on TV.  Even though what they did was throw a woman's 20 year marriage and her young daughter under the bus.

That will always be nastier than anything Bethenny has ever dished out to anyone on this show, imo. 

[zoeysmom]

24 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

Would it be better if Bethenny had been as slick and guileful as Luann was when she and Jill stuck their shivs in Ramona in Morocco?

Because they totally set Ramona up with that "psychic," you realize.   The whole thing was a carefully laid plan to expose the rumors about Mario cheating on the air and humiliate Ramona.  Their fake concern for the state of their friend's marriage was actually kind of insulting to my intelligence.  It was just a way to stick more pins in under the guise of innocent discussion.  They intended to come across as sincere friends but it felt more like I was watching some old hags around a bubbling cauldron.  

I think I'd prefer if they had just looked right into the camera a laughed like Bethenny supposedly did.  It would have been more honest.

If it is the level of potential destruction of another housewife that makes the difference, again I think what Jill and Lu did to Ramona was worse.  Ramona was actually married to Mario, for almost 20 years at that point.  They had a daughter, Avery, young enough to still be living at home but old enough to be pained by their little scheme.  Lu has what, six months? invested in this clown.  They don't even live together.  They don't have kids.  The potential harm of Bethenny letting Luann know Tom was catting around town is nothing compared to what Jill and Lu risked setting in motion in Ramona's life. 

Sure the little psychic reading scheme was clever and funny.  Lu and Jill maintained plausible deniability which was brilliant. And it made for good TV (so good that I am sure someone is about to tell me it was all real, lol).  But let's not pretend that Lu and Jill didn't experience the same level of joy that Bethenny supposedly took in getting to burn Luann.  They just had the good sense not to gloat about it openly on TV.  Even though what they did was throw a woman's 20 year marriage and her young daughter under the bus.

That will always be nastier than anything Bethenny has ever dished out to anyone on this show, imo. 

Actually Jill NOT Luann said at the Reunion there were rumors about Mario cheating.  So fast forward to this season with Ramona who is flopping around on the bed, with a stupid roller on her head, claiming she only found out about Mario's cheating through Page Six may want to thank Jill instead of being a victim.  I don't believe in the psychic stuff, but I also don't believe Luann set Ramona up.  It was Jill she was at odds with at the time.  Ramona had already done quite a bit to Luann prior to the fourth season and was the one who claimed Luann had an open marriage (when it was none of her business), called Luann a slut, called the Count an old man in front of his daughter, said Luann was with lots of men and cheated throughout her marriage because Luann didn't want to go to her house after Mario called her Countless in front of press, went after Luann's daughter and Luann as a mother.  So there was probably a no more deserving recipient than Ramona Singer of gossip, even if out of the mouth of a psychic.  I think the reoccurring theme with Ramona is she has always been so arrogant how wonderful her marriage is, how her relationship with her daughter is superior to anyone else's.  All Luann was saying is she is happy or was and engaged.  I think what separates the two, is Luann isn't going after the others and their relationships as Ramona has after hers and Bethenny has gone after Luann.  Prior to Season 4, I can't recall Luann ever doing anything to Ramona, whereas Ramona has been pretty merciless going after Luann.

[Normades]

13 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Actually Jill NOT Luann said at the Reunion there were rumors about Mario cheating.  So fast forward to this season with Ramona who is flopping around on the bed, with a stupid roller on her head, claiming she only found out about Mario's cheating through Page Six may want to thank Jill instead of being a victim.  I don't believe in the psychic stuff, but I also don't believe Luann set Ramona up.  It was Jill she was at odds with at the time.  Ramona had already done quite a bit to Luann prior to the fourth season and was the one who claimed Luann had an open marriage (when it was none of her business), called Luann a slut, called the Count an old man in front of his daughter, said Luann was with lots of men and cheated throughout her marriage because Luann didn't want to go to her house after Mario called her Countless in front of press, went after Luann's daughter and Luann as a mother.  So there was probably a no more deserving recipient than Ramona Singer of gossip, even if out of the mouth of a psychic.  I think the reoccurring theme with Ramona is she has always been so arrogant how wonderful her marriage is, how her relationship with her daughter is superior to anyone else's.  All Luann was saying is she is happy or was and engaged.  I think what separates the two, is Luann isn't going after the others and their relationships as Ramona has after hers and Bethenny has gone after Luann.  Prior to Season 4, I can't recall Luann ever doing anything to Ramona, whereas Ramona has been pretty merciless going after Luann.

I totally agree with this.  When Ramona went after LuAnn's child, I was horrified.  I obviously don't condone Victoria's actions, but she was a child and should have been off limits.  Had that been my child, I would have lost it.  I also think when they show LuAnn with her kids, they seem happy and comfortable.  I wouldn't say the same about Avery, since I've seen her cringe many, many times at her mother's actions.  I'd love to see the dynamic between Qunicy and Sonja, plus it will be interesting to see how Brynn and B get along as time passes.  Anyone have psychic predictions on that?

[Natalie68]

47 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

Would it be better if Bethenny had been as slick and guileful as Luann was when she and Jill stuck their shivs in Ramona in Morocco?

Because they totally set Ramona up with that "psychic," you realize.   The whole thing was a carefully laid plan to expose the rumors about Mario cheating on the air and humiliate Ramona.  Their fake concern for the state of their friend's marriage was actually kind of insulting to my intelligence.  It was just a way to stick more pins in under the guise of innocent discussion.  They intended to come across as sincere friends but it felt more like I was watching some old hags around a bubbling cauldron.  

I think I'd prefer if they had just looked right into the camera a laughed like Bethenny supposedly did.  It would have been more honest.

If it is the level of potential destruction of another housewife that makes the difference, again I think what Jill and Lu did to Ramona was worse.  Ramona was actually married to Mario, for almost 20 years at that point.  They had a daughter, Avery, young enough to still be living at home but old enough to be pained by their little scheme.  Lu has what, six months? invested in this clown.  They don't even live together.  They don't have kids.  The potential harm of Bethenny letting Luann know Tom was catting around town is nothing compared to what Jill and Lu risked setting in motion in Ramona's life. 

Sure the little psychic reading scheme was clever and funny.  Lu and Jill maintained plausible deniability which was brilliant. And it made for good TV (so good that I am sure someone is about to tell me it was all real, lol).  But let's not pretend that Lu and Jill didn't experience the same level of joy that Bethenny supposedly took in getting to burn Luann.  They just had the good sense not to gloat about it openly on TV.  Even though what they did was throw a woman's 20 year marriage and her young daughter under the bus.

That will always be nastier than anything Bethenny has ever dished out to anyone on this show, imo. 

Even *Krazy Kelly had a problem with Lu's psychic translation for Ramona because it wasn't exactly what was being said and K seemed to think they were being unfair to her.  And way to be shitty Lu.  Why not say to Ramona, I will tell you later, its not for open discussion.  At least B told Lu in the privacy of her hotel room and not in the middle of a party.  And it wasn't a premeditated humiliation moment.  

 I remember the old Lu.  She was dismissive of those she felt beneath her (season 1, and it was everyone), she was AWFUL to Alex in Morocco, awful to Alex after Morocco, and there is probably more but I can't recall at this very moment.  She can give as good as the others.  She became more sympathetic when the Count dumped her but she is still the same old Lu.  

I don't see B as a huge bitch for telling her and getting some bit of pleasure.  They have had their issues (Lu getting in the way of B and Jill at Ramona's when B and J were on the outs).  I saw a few things watching Bethenny once the news was delivered.  A bit of schadenfreude, empathy for another human being going through shit (I would also prob feel sympathy telling someone I had a difficult relationship with), and a damn it, I should have just called Tom or had Dorinda tell her.

No matter what you may think of someone, unless you are a total sociopath, you feel something for anyone going through grief, self imposed or not.  And it can include sadness as well as satisfaction at the payback for being callous of others feelings in similar circumstances (Tom's date when Lu walked him off into the sunset to dazzle him with her magic V).  They have known each other a long time.  Its a complicated relationship.

*Don't judge me.  I read her book and she came across a lot better than in live action.  Disclaimer:  I did not buy it, my sister gave it to me as a gag gift.

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

 I don't believe in the psychic stuff, but I also don't believe Luann set Ramona up.  It was Jill she was at odds with at the time.  Ramona had already done quite a bit to Luann prior to the fourth season and was the one who claimed Luann had an open marriage (when it was none of her business), called Luann a slut, called the Count an old man in front of his daughter, said Luann was with lots of men and cheated throughout her marriage because Luann didn't want to go to her house after Mario called her Countless in front of press, went after Luann's daughter and Luann as a mother.  

 

You make a better case for why Luann might want to go after Ramona than I did, yet you insist she couldn't possibly have played a part in setting up Ramona.  Damn, she's good.  Stealthy as hell. Never turn your back on her. 

Part of me is starting to think that all this Tomfoolery is just a big scam Luann is running to make herself the focus of the show so she can hang onto (reclaim?) her apple.   Think about it.  Luann for some reason is over the moon about this guy who just really doesn't seem like *all that* to, well, anybody.  He's not gorgeous and young like Jaques, he's not that wealthy or socially connected. I was not certainly not impressed with his wit and charm at all.*  Yet they are engaged almost instantly.  For some strange reason Luann feels compelled to mention her castmates' relationship with Tom in the press (not very Luann-like, imo), but conveniently pricking everyone's ears in anticipation of what's coming.

She swans around all season talking about their *great love* after they've been together five whole minutes, even though it's awkward as hell given what went on "BL." But it sure got her some screen time, didn't it?  People are either talking to her or about her. Then Tom (an experienced ladies man who knows his way around)  just happens to get his picture taken sucking face out in public in one of his main haunts right before the engagement party.  Those pictures conveniently find their way to Bethenny, and .... Bravo is off to the races.  Luann's love affair is edited into being the whole damn show this season, all so they can feature it blowing up in her face, making her the object of sympathy with Bethenny happily playing the role of Satan (typecasting, I'm sure some of you would suggest). 

Now everyone is busy trying to figure out "will they stay together?" and "why would they stay together?"  Her New Year's Eve wedding is going to guarantee her another season (what 50 year old couple has such a long engagement, you ask? one who needs the wedding to take place at a certain time so it can be filmed for the next season, duh).  She's even going to have Jill in her wedding party.  Is she angling to have Jill return so she can have her wingman back?  Hmmm.  

This is really starting to smell fishy to me.  

*ETA - I forgot to mention their lack of chemistry, lol ... which is a biggie.  They don't seem very comfortable kissing each other, really, as several here have noted.  And if you think of the old footage of Luann and Alex when they first got together, or even remember her with Jacques, the difference is really striking. 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

Would it be better if Bethenny had been as slick and guileful as Luann was when she and Jill stuck their shivs in Ramona in Morocco?

Because they totally set Ramona up with that "psychic," you realize.   The whole thing was a carefully laid plan to expose the rumors about Mario cheating on the air and humiliate Ramona.  Their fake concern for the state of their friend's marriage was actually kind of insulting to my intelligence.  It was just a way to stick more pins in under the guise of innocent discussion.  They intended to come across as sincere friends but it felt more like I was watching some old hags around a bubbling cauldron.  

I think I'd prefer if they had just looked right into the camera a laughed like Bethenny supposedly did.  It would have been more honest.

If it is the level of potential destruction of another housewife that makes the difference, again I think what Jill and Lu did to Ramona was worse.  Ramona was actually married to Mario, for almost 20 years at that point.  They had a daughter, Avery, young enough to still be living at home but old enough to be pained by their little scheme.  Lu has what, six months? invested in this clown.  They don't even live together.  They don't have kids.  The potential harm of Bethenny letting Luann know Tom was catting around town is nothing compared to what Jill and Lu risked setting in motion in Ramona's life. 

Sure the little psychic reading scheme was clever and funny.  Lu and Jill maintained plausible deniability which was brilliant. And it made for good TV (so good that I am sure someone is about to tell me it was all real, lol).  But let's not pretend that Lu and Jill didn't experience the same level of joy that Bethenny supposedly took in getting to burn Luann.  They just had the good sense not to gloat about it openly on TV.  Even though what they did was throw a woman's 20 year marriage and her young daughter under the bus.

That will always be nastier than anything Bethenny has ever dished out to anyone on this show, imo. 

I don't recall but did that little scene play out over 3 episodes? After Ramona being slut shamed and called a fuck doll? Was it the topic of catty conversation over and over and over again among the rest of the cast?  I wonder how many pics are floating around of Mario and his laughing flirting ways.. oh wait we have some film of it shining through throughout the seasons... but no one truly delighted in that turn for the worst the way Beth and the others are cackling about Lu current situation.  There's catty and inappropriate and bad decisions based on getting ratings/keeping apples and then there's complete annihilation. I get that the show is about creating conflict and pushing the other cast mates to the brink but  holy skamoly this was just some evil shit. Plain and simple. Barely recoverable whereas some of the other unfortunate antics of the others in past seasons does not come close to the level of damaging as what's being done to Lu this season.

They may drop bombs and allegedly coordinate sneak attacks in this form or another (usually death by psychic) but never have there been such a dragged out multi level plan of attack that's been waged on Lu. This is far beyond short lived catty "set ups". They never ran with that info and really tried to force it into an ongoing storyline. That nonsense last the end of one episode (as a cliffhanger) and into the next. At least that's how I remember it. 

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Actually Jill NOT Luann said at the Reunion there were rumors about Mario cheating.  So fast forward to this season with Ramona who is flopping around on the bed, with a stupid roller on her head, claiming she only found out about Mario's cheating through Page Six may want to thank Jill instead of being a victim.  I don't believe in the psychic stuff, but I also don't believe Luann set Ramona up.  It was Jill she was at odds with at the time.  Ramona had already done quite a bit to Luann prior to the fourth season and was the one who claimed Luann had an open marriage (when it was none of her business), called Luann a slut, called the Count an old man in front of his daughter, said Luann was with lots of men and cheated throughout her marriage because Luann didn't want to go to her house after Mario called her Countless in front of press, went after Luann's daughter and Luann as a mother.  So there was probably a no more deserving recipient than Ramona Singer of gossip, even if out of the mouth of a psychic.  I think the reoccurring theme with Ramona is she has always been so arrogant how wonderful her marriage is, how her relationship with her daughter is superior to anyone else's.  All Luann was saying is she is happy or was and engaged.  I think what separates the two, is Luann isn't going after the others and their relationships as Ramona has after hers and Bethenny has gone after Luann.  Prior to Season 4, I can't recall Luann ever doing anything to Ramona, whereas Ramona has been pretty merciless going after Luann.

It's a reoccuring theme actually. I mean the lowest up til now was when Ramona kept calling Lu a part time mom and THEN brought up what happened with Lu's daughter. They've always been VERY unhanded when dealing with Lu when in all actuality Lu may have slung some mud but I don't recall her ever being conniving or calculated about any of her conflicts with the others. Sure she can get nasty but as I've said before I've only noticed her go there in response to some sort of negativity aimed her way for whatever reason big or small. She does react its just that her reactions for the most part aren't as unglued or flustered as they would hope so in turn she succeeds in making them look small just by comparison. This then turns into Lu's so fake or Lu thinks she's better blah blah blah. No, now YOU feel stupid cause she didn't react like a shrill harpie therefore coming out looking a whole lot more sophisticated than your dumb asses.  And hence the vicious cycle.

They finally got their Holy Grail of ammo to finally cut into Lu and boy are they fucking running with it. I'm completely amazed at the excitement these women are expressing over all this gossip and info. It's so very disturbing on a whole other level. I must say.

[WireWrap]

12 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

You make a better case for why Luann might want to go after Ramona than I did, yet you insist she couldn't possibly have played a part in setting up Ramona.  Damn, she's good.  Stealthy as hell. Never turn your back on her. 

Part of me is starting to think that all this Tomfoolery is just a big scam Luann is running to make herself the focus of the show so she can hang onto (reclaim?) her apple.   Think about it.  Luann for some reason is over the moon about this guy who just really doesn't seem like *all that* to, well, anybody.  He's not gorgeous and young like Jaques, he's not that wealthy or socially connected. I was not certainly not impressed with his wit and charm at all.  Yet they are engaged almost instantly.  For some strange reason Luann feels compelled to mention her castmates' relationship with Tom in the press (not very Luann-like, imo), but conveniently pricking everyone's ears in anticipation of what's coming.

She swans around all season talking about their *great love* after they've been together five whole minutes, even though it's awkward as hell given what went on "BL." But it sure got her some screen time, didn't it?  Then Tom (an experienced ladies man who knows his way around)  just happens to get his picture taken sucking face out in public in one of his main haunts right before the engagement party.  Those pictures conveniently find their way to Bethenny, and .... Bravo is off to the races.  Luann's love affair is edited into being the whole damn show this season, all so they can feature it blowing up in her face, making her the object of sympathy with Bethenny happily playing the role of Satan (typecasting, I'm sure some of you would suggest). 

Now everyone is busy trying to figure out "will they stay together?" and "why would they stay together?"  Her New Year's Eve wedding is going to guarantee her another season (what 50 year old couple has such a long engagement, you ask? one who needs the wedding to take place at a certain time so it can be filmed for the next season, duh).  She's even going to have Jill in her wedding party.  Is she angling to have Jill return so she can have her wingman back?  Hmmm.  

This is really starting to smell fishy to me.  

Well, then Luann is a genius, a PSYCHIC GENIUS at that. Without her whirlwind courtship, engagement and Tom playing tonsil hockey with some random playboy bunny, we are left with Bethenny bleeding all over the place out of every orifice of her body and canceling every "girls" trip production pitches, not talking to Sonja and Luann, holding court in a variety of locations, Carole/dog weddings and that's about it. How fortunate we are that Luann planned out this "scam" for our entertainment. LOL (JK or not.......umm, maybe) LOL  Seriously though, Tom is interesting enough that Sonja had a long term FWB arrangement with him, that Ramona went out with him 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, or 12 times and that Dorinda thought he/Luann would hit it off, so there must be something attractive about him. As for his wit, charm, or lack of, we really haven't seen/heard from him at all to access his real personality IMO.

[ryebread]

2 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

Would it be better if Bethenny had been as slick and guileful as Luann was when she and Jill stuck their shivs in Ramona in Morocco?

Because they totally set Ramona up with that "psychic," you realize.   The whole thing was a carefully laid plan to expose the rumors about Mario cheating on the air and humiliate Ramona.  Their fake concern for the state of their friend's marriage was actually kind of insulting to my intelligence.

Yup, yup, yup.  Sure was. 

That said, I still think Beth is worse than Lu and Jill put together.  But I think the single stunt that Lu and Jill pulled on Moaner was worse than what Beth did to Lu.

They're all shits.

Edited August 22, 2016 by ryebread

[Celia Rubenstein]

12 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I don't recall but did that little scene play out over 3 episodes? After Ramona being slut shamed and called a fuck doll? Was it the topic of catty conversation over and over and over again among the rest of the cast?  I wonder how many pics are floating around of Mario and his laughing flirting ways.. oh wait we have some film of it shining through throughout the seasons... but no one truly delighted in that turn for the worst the way Beth and the others are cackling about Lu current situation.  There's catty and inappropriate and bad decisions based on getting ratings/keeping apples and then there's complete annihilation. I get that the show is about creating conflict and pushing the other cast mates to the brink but  holy skamoly this was just some evil shit. Plain and simple. Barely recoverable whereas some of the other unfortunate antics of the others in past seasons does not come close to the level of damaging as what's being done to Lu this season.

They may drop bombs and allegedly coordinate sneak attacks in this form or another (usually death by psychic) but never have there been such a dragged out multi level plan of attack that's been waged on Lu. This is far beyond short lived catty "set ups". They never ran with that info and really tried to force it into an ongoing storyline. That nonsense last the end of one episode (as a cliffhanger) and into the next. At least that's how I remember it. 

How many episodes an incident or aspect of a storyline ends up being covered in is determined by the Bravo editors, isn't it?  I don't think Bethenny is in charge of that so I don't think it's really relevant to a discussion of her behavior.  At any rate, I think they got two episodes out of the psychic but there was a lot else going on in Morocco - unlike this season that is dragging out the Tomfoolery stuff because, well, what else is there to show?  I think that is why is has warranted three episodes.  It's not Bethenny's fault. 

Regarding the rest of what you say about Bethenny and the shocking unprecedented reign of terror being launched at poor delicate Luann, I am going to have to go back and watch more closely.  I am just not filled with the horrifying recollections of a cackling Bethenny rubbing her paws together and rolling on the floor with orgasmic glee that seem to be troubling some here.   She wasn't crying her eyes out at the prospect of dropping her little bomb on Luann, but I think the joy she supposedly took in it is being just a bit overstated.

As for Luann being destroyed or annihilated or eviscerated, I don't get the hyperbole.  She was upset.   I think she may cry a little and yell at Tom on the phone some.  I actually think the stuff that was mentioned up above about how nasty Ramona was to Lu re: the count and her daughter is WAY WAY WAY worse than anything she has dealt with this season.  Of course it is now Bethenny who is being harsh on Luann, not Ramona. I think that is why it is being viewed as heinously monstrous behavior and not just the run of the mill catty set-ups that people are fine with. Because it's Bethenny.

 

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Seriously though, Tom is interesting enough that Sonja had a long term FWB arrangement with him, that Ramona went out with him 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, or 12 times and that Dorinda thought he/Luann would hit it off, so there must be something attractive about him. As for his wit, charm, or lack of, we really haven't seen/heard from him at all to access his real personality IMO.

I have to laugh at the idea that because Sonja slept with Tom, he must be okay.  LOL really, she will sleep with almost anyone from the sound of it.  The fact they got together hardly put's Tom in a good light imo.  I think she and Ramona are both exaggerating their relationships with him. And for the record, I think the introduction by Dorinda is being exaggerated, too.  I don't see Dorinda as the type of woman to usher another woman into someone else's date, mid-evening.  I think it was much less formal, as in "Luann, meet Tom, Tom this is Luann."  Nothing more, certainly no matchmaking or anything. 

I just don't see the appeal of Tom.  I can see the charm of Alex or Jacques and understand Luann falling for them.  Hell, I understand her attraction to Johnny Deppleganger the pirate more than I do Tom.  He had a certain greasy charm, lol.  But Tom?  Nah.  And Luann is trying too hard to sell it, with the adoring stare she gives him and the ridiculous braying about him being her soulmate.  I don't think she is that into him at all.  And he does not look all that into her, either.  It's a show-mance, nothing more. 

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Her New Year's Eve wedding is going to guarantee her another season (what 50 year old couple has such a long engagement, you ask? one who needs the wedding to take place at a certain time so it can be filmed for the next season, duh).  

I still say ain't gon be no weddin'.

Actually, I think if Lu was going to get a show, Lu Starting Over would be FAR more interesting than: 

Lu and Tom sitting in a tree,

While he kisses other women at the Re-gen-cy.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I will join you on the ain't gonna be a wedding wagon. 

[Lisin]

OK gang. Morocco talk should be in another thread. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

I have to laugh at the idea that because Sonja slept with Tom, he must be okay.  LOL really, she will sleep with almost anyone from the sound of it.  The fact they got together hardly put's Tom in a good light imo.  I think she and Ramona are both exaggerating their relationships with him. And for the record, I think the introduction by Dorinda is being exaggerated, too.  I don't see Dorinda as the type of woman to usher another woman into someone else's date, mid-evening.  I think it was much less formal, as in "Luann, meet Tom, Tom this is Luann."  Nothing more, certainly no matchmaking or anything. 

I just don't see the appeal of Tom.  I can see the charm of Alex or Jacques and understand Luann falling for them.  Hell, I understand her attraction to Johnny Deppleganger the pirate more than I do Tom.  He had a certain greasy charm, lol.  But Tom?  Nah.  And Luann is trying too hard to sell it, with the adoring stare she gives him and the ridiculous braying about him being her soulmate.  I don't think she is that into him at all.  And he does not look all that into her, either.  It's a show-mance, nothing more. 

There has to be something about him that drew both Sonja and Ramona to him in the first place and Yes, Dorinda tried to play cell phone matchmaker with Luann and Tom, they did not actually meet until a few months later. As for Sonja jumping anything male that moves, that is also true. LOL

How much have we really seen Tom though? I think we saw/heard more of/from the pirate than we have Tom so far this season. He is a large part of the show because Luann, Sonja, Ramona, Bethenny and to lesser extents Dorinda/Carole have talk about him even though he has spent very little time on camera for us to get to know. IMO, we haven't seen him enough to make any decisions about the type of person he is or the type of relationship he/Luann have and I am unwilling to take Bethenny's word on him as she has never met him. LOL

[zoeysmom]

50 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

How many episodes an incident or aspect of a storyline ends up being covered in is determined by the Bravo editors, isn't it?  I don't think Bethenny is in charge of that so I don't think it's really relevant to a discussion of her behavior.  At any rate, I think they got two episodes out of the psychic but there was a lot else going on in Morocco - unlike this season that is dragging out the Tomfoolery stuff because, well, what else is there to show?  I think that is why is has warranted three episodes.  It's not Bethenny's fault. 

Regarding the rest of what you say about Bethenny and the shocking unprecedented reign of terror being launched at poor delicate Luann, I am going to have to go back and watch more closely.  I am just not filled with the horrifying recollections of a cackling Bethenny rubbing her paws together and rolling on the floor with orgasmic glee that seem to be troubling some here.   She wasn't crying her eyes out at the prospect of dropping her little bomb on Luann, but I think the joy she supposedly took in it is being just a bit overstated.

As for Luann being destroyed or annihilated or eviscerated, I don't get the hyperbole.  She was upset.   I think she may cry a little and yell at Tom on the phone some.  I actually think the stuff that was mentioned up above about how nasty Ramona was to Lu re: the count and her daughter is WAY WAY WAY worse than anything she has dealt with this season.  Of course it is now Bethenny who is being harsh on Luann, not Ramona. I think that is why it is being viewed as heinously monstrous behavior and not just the run of the mill catty set-ups that people are fine with. Because it's Bethenny.

 

I have to laugh at the idea that because Sonja slept with Tom, he must be okay.  LOL really, she will sleep with almost anyone from the sound of it.  The fact they got together hardly put's Tom in a good light imo.  I think she and Ramona are both exaggerating their relationships with him. And for the record, I think the introduction by Dorinda is being exaggerated, too.  I don't see Dorinda as the type of woman to usher another woman into someone else's date, mid-evening.  I think it was much less formal, as in "Luann, meet Tom, Tom this is Luann."  Nothing more, certainly no matchmaking or anything. 

I just don't see the appeal of Tom.  I can see the charm of Alex or Jacques and understand Luann falling for them.  Hell, I understand her attraction to Johnny Deppleganger the pirate more than I do Tom.  He had a certain greasy charm, lol.  But Tom?  Nah.  And Luann is trying too hard to sell it, with the adoring stare she gives him and the ridiculous braying about him being her soulmate.  I don't think she is that into him at all.  And he does not look all that into her, either.  It's a show-mance, nothing more. 

Well it kind of is Bethenny's fault.  If she wanted to blow up or tell Tom or Luann she could have done it Thursday the day before the engagement party, or as soon as Luann arrived in Miami, but she was the one stretching it for three episodes and pretty much said the same on her radio show.  Bethenny flat out said she was gloating over the fact Tom cheated.  In Bethenny's defense I think she thought Luann was doing it for a storyline.  One cannot have it both ways and say, they are to quick to pull the trigger on getting married, oh and the engagement is too long.  I think there was a built in backstop.  We didn't elope this NYE, but next NYE will have the big wedding.

The Dorinda introduction goes something like this: Dorinda saw Tom (an old friend of her late husband's) at an event and said you are just like my friend Luann.  Dorinda called Luann up and from there Tom and Luann exchanged numbers and could not make their schedules work. So before there was a Ramona date there was the opportunity for these two to meet and neither took advantage of it.  So five months later, while on dates with others, they crossed paths.

Bethenny brings it on herself.  We are now 130 days away from the big day and there are no signs of it being called off.  Bethenny knows it all, and I think this time her trusted advisors might have gotten it all wrong.  It most likely wasn't for a storyline and in the scheme of things eliminating RHs this season there is a long line forming behind Luann for people without storylines, Ramona, Sonya, and Carole, to name three.   The problem with relying on instinct and chasing a friend away is you really don't get to have a first hand account of what is going on with that person.  Have they found Jesus, decided they like women, fallen in love, turned over a new leaf?  Bethenny had no way of knowing because she calls Luann, "just a whore".  

[straightshooter]

9 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I posted the video of the conversation between Tom and Luann when she confronts him over on First Looks.  Here it is as a spoiler

  Hide contents

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/luann-de-lesseps-confronts-fiance-tom-in-rhony-finale-w435476

I guess discussion should be on First Looks?

Whoops!  Never mind....I thought this was about what just aired on ET.  Sorry!

Edited August 23, 2016 by straightshooter

[breezy424]

Interesting that there are no blogs this week except for Lu (or maybe the page is caching and not updating for me).  Dorinda did touch on the subject a few days earlier in her blog.  She does say:  The comments and questions were so uncomfortable and confusing at the time, but now, they’re just downright painful and humiliating in retrospect.

You've got to wonder if they just don't know how to spin their behavior.  I'm looking especially at you Beth....because most of the season your 'blog' was usually the first one up. 

Sonja was on AH tonight.  She just came over as ridiculous.  I actually wondered if she had a few (drinks or meds) before the interview.

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Interesting that there are no blogs this week except for Lu (or maybe the page is caching and not updating for me).  Dorinda did touch on the subject a few days earlier in her blog.  She does say:  The comments and questions were so uncomfortable and confusing at the time, but now, they’re just downright painful and humiliating in retrospect.

You've got to wonder if they just don't know how to spin their behavior.  I'm looking especially at you Beth....because most of the season your 'blog' was usually the first one up. 

Sonja was on AH tonight.  She just came over as ridiculous.  I actually wondered if she had a few (drinks or meds) before the interview.

No, it seems they are not writing their blogs. Luann did a blog last week but missed the week before, Dorinda did one 2 weeks ago but missed writing I for the 2 prior shows, Ramona and Sonja rarely submit blogs any more, Carole is missing more than ever, as is Jules. That said, it seems that a lot of HWs stop blogging after the reunion is filmed even though there are still regular season episodes left. It happens franchise wide and that is why filming the reunion when they do isn't the smartest idea IMO. Also, it seems that many HWs use SM (twitter/snapchat) to give their spin on each episode and they will answer some questions about it as well.