All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[Ambrosefolly]

23 hours ago, clack said:

Season 7 missed an opportunity, when Marty was brought back, for Rory to be confronted on just how fucked up that whole situation was.

Rory knew Marty was avoiding her, and had probably guessed why. Her response was to cajole Marty into an intimate, just-we-two evening, an evening where she expended a great amount of effort (not to mention money) -- dressing in a Harpo costume, putting up Marx Bros. posters on the walls, preparing snacks -- to woo Marty back.

And then Logan shows up, crooks his little finger, and Rory abandons her intimate Marty evening mid-movie.

But who's the wronged party? According to season 7, it's Rory.

 

I hated what they ended up doing with Marty. While I get Lucy's initial anger, I really wish she had taken him back; she was much better for Marty than Rory (probably my love for Kristen Ritter speaking though) and in Marty's defense, him and Rory hadn't spoken in year and a half/maybe even 2 years.So it was less like they were friends for 3 years, but friends 2 years ago.  It looked like Marty froze and made a bone headed, but split, decision and they got so far in the charade he felt he couldn't walk back from it. I don't for a second think Logan cared about Lucy and outed Marty because he thought she was "nice". How long did Colin have that European chick (who didn't know English) before any of  the LoDBs found someone that spoke her language and told that rather sweet farm girl that Colin couldn't stand her any longer? Probably very long.They, including Logan, thought it was funny.  Logan was jealous and pissed that Marty managed to get in one zinger about Logan being a trust fund baby, despite Logan needling Marty all night about people that crush on Rory and his many jobs.

[tarotx]

The farm girl Katrinka was in one episode. I think one scene really. And before that Logan had not seen Colin so he didn't know Colin was done with Katrinka. Marty didn't need to take the jab of he was waiting for his trust fund to kick in. Lucy was the one going on and on about Marty's job. And she is the one who asks how Rory and Logan met. There was no reason for Rory to keep that she knew Marty from Lucy and to not tell Logan about it at all. That is the reason Logan was upset in the first place.  She gets mad about things like Bobby but then doesn' tell him this Marty/Lucy business. 

[Ambrosefolly]

20 minutes ago, tarotx said:

The farm girl Katrinka was in one episode. I think one scene really. And before that Logan had not seen Colin so he didn't know Colin was done with Katrinka. Marty didn't need to take the jab of he was waiting for his trust fund to kick in. Lucy was the one going on and on about Marty's job. And she is the one who asks how Rory and Logan met. There was no reason for Rory to keep that she knew Marty from Lucy and to not tell Logan about it at all. That is the reason Logan was upset in the first place.  She gets mad about things like Bobby but then doesn' tell him this Marty/Lucy business. 

 

The farm girl was mentioned earlier and that she was flown in from her home country to be with Colin. Him outing Marty come across as less than sincere, and I argue Rory was more taken back by Bobbie being a beautiful english woman than really upset. She even said she felt stupid about complaining. I agree there wasn't a reason for Rory to keep the lame secret but she was and he outed it in a why to make seem they were keeping the secret for nefarious purposes, making them look like jerks, even though Rory was just doing a favor for Marty. He was being a shit boyfriend to her outing it like that instead of trying to convince her afterwards to fess up to Lucy and there isn't anything you can say that can convince me that Marty making that crack about the trust fund didn't play into it.

[tarotx]

11 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

The farm girl was mentioned earlier and that she was flown in from her home country to be with Colin. Him outing Marty come across as less than sincere, and I argue Rory was more taken back by Bobbie being a beautiful english woman than really upset. She even said she felt stupid about complaining. I agree there wasn't a reason for Rory to keep the lame secret but she was and he outed it in a why to make seem they were keeping the secret for nefarious purposes, making them look like jerks, even though Rory was just doing a favor for Marty. He was being a shit boyfriend to her outing it like that instead of trying to convince her afterwards to fess up to Lucy and there isn't anything you can say that can convince me that Marty making that crack about the trust fund didn't play into it.

 

 

Colin liked the farm girl until he got back to the states. And Rory doesn't tell Logan other guy stuff which is one of the reasons he was angry about Jess and why he was happy that she was telling him about her "crush" on her TA in 7.14.

Edited January 28, 2017 by tarotx

[Ambrosefolly]

1 minute ago, tarotx said:

Colin liked the farm girl until he got back to the state. And Rory doesn't tell Logan other guy stuff which is one of the reasons he was angry about Jess and why he was happy that she was telling him about her "crush" on her TA in 7.14.

 

Well, there is better ways to show it than making your girlfriend and your former bartender look like complete assholes because you feel slightly threatened. He should know that it had been over a year since Marty and Rory had even spoken and only recently started to spend time together because of Lucy, who Rory had just befriended and spent a girls weekend with, before finding out who Lucy had been dating.  If it were Finn or Colin doing what Marty did, he would have kept his mouth shut at least until he could convince Rory to come clean. Part of me wished she had mentioned making out Jess while he was on his last idiotic LaDB trip that nearly got him killed, just to show where the real threat would be.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Logan was under no obligation to continue the lie. He was unhappy with it before Marty acted like a jerk. And yes, Marty was being a jerk. Being poor doesn't negate his actions  ... or whatever curve he's graded on. 

 That whole thing was no one but Marty's fault. Rory shouldn't have gone along with it, not for as long as she did. And Logan certainly didn't have to play along. 

 

ETA: Colin and Finn are Logan's friends. Marty is not. He owns him no loyalty.  How do we know what he thought of the farm girl one way or another? Hadn't he just come back from a trip himself and wanted to just hang out with his friends? It is not his place to straightened his group of friends. All the characters overlook questionable behavior from the people closest to them but somehow Logan's is judged for Colin and Finn's behavior.  

Edited January 28, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Logan should've either backed out of the dinner if he wasn't willing to go along or played the charade since he decided to go. Rory wanted to tell Lucy on kinder terms. Logan deliberately humiliated her and then tried to play like he did it out of concern for her feelings. 

[tarotx]

Logan was unhappy that Rory was keeping things from him. This was things done when Rory is his girlfriend. Logan probably still doesn't know Rory and Jess kissed during her s6 Philadelphia trip. And Logan's parachuting out of a plane trip happened because Rory wasn't talking to him. She was being bitchy even though she said she was fine. He didn't know how to deal with Rory and handled it with Colin&Finn. He had tried to get her to talk. She should never have moved back into his place when she was that angry. And if she didn't move back and say everything was ok, the Jess kiss would never have been an issue. 

And the reason s7 Logn went to dinner was he wanted to see how Rory was with her friends. He and Rory were having a long distance relationship and she wasn't telling him stuff. Even after Rory was unhappy with this issue earlier. Though Logan was talking about Bobby as if she was just a regular co-worker, which she was. Rory had the right to be mad but Logan wasn't in the wrong. Rory was the one keeping secrets about time that she was in a relationship with Logan. And she was causing even more lying to happen. For no reason. Marty didn't deserve Rory keeping this from Lucy for him. And Logan and Rory were already in a weakened position because of the long distance and her attack of his friends a couple of weeks earlier. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by tarotx

[Kohola3]

Quote

Well, there is better ways to show it than making your girlfriend and your former bartender look like complete assholes because you feel slightly threatened.

It was such a childish reaction.  "I know something you don't know - neener neener".  Nice move to humiliate your girlfriend AND screw over a perceived threat at the same time.  Big baby.

[tarotx]

Logan had a laid back chill attitude, Lucy was all cutesy and Rory and Marty were lying for no reason and acting like it with coy reservedness when anything could be about the lying.  I can't find a video of the scene but once I do I'll post it.

[clack]

In the Marx Bros movie date night scene, it's fair to say that Rory was seducing Marty. She was plying him with his favorite snacks, his favorite movies, she dressed in costume, she theme re-decorated her room -- hell, she had her legs draped over his boner (c'mon, the guy was 19 and in love -- you know he was aroused).

But, she didn't want to sleep with Marty. What was she seducing Marty into? All that effort to restore a fairly short-term friendship?

Something unstated was going on. Did Rory enjoy being desired by an attractive boy, though she didn't particularly desire him, and just want to keep Marty on a string? Or, there is the old-fashioned concept of a "romantic friendship" : a non-sexual relationship that yet has more emotional intensity and desire for intimacy than you find in a more usual friendship -- did Rory want from Marty something less than boyfriend, but something more than casual friend?

Which all leads up to Logan's motives in the 2 dinners that pretty much bookend Marty's fall from Gilmore grace : was Logan jealous of Rory and Marty's relationship and did he set out , consciously or unconsciously, to sabotage Marty on both occasions?

[Frelling Tralk]

I didn't think that Rory was intentionally romantically stringing Marty along, more that she couldn't stand to think of anyone disliking her, or really having any kind of problem with her. That's why she was so determined to get back on good terms with Marty imo, because she didn't want to come across as the "bad guy" who would willingly ditch a friend for her boyfriend.  

[hippielamb]

Interesting that so many people defend Marty when he purposely needled Logan with that trust fund comment. Seemed like a jerk move to me. 

I don't like Marty. Period. I should, though. I have been a bartender for 20+ years, and have served rich, frat dudes plenty of times. They leave the best tips, fyi. Marty's sad sack woe is me attitude about money annoys me because we are supposed to feel bad for him. When in reality he got himself into these situations. If he didn't like working for the Life & Death crew, don't take the job (and the huge tips). Don't go to a restaurant with them when you don't like them, and don't have any money. Don't whine to the girl you like because you put yourself in an uncomfortable position. 

[clack]

Not stringing him along romantically so much as -- I think Rory wanted Marty to be her Luke ( this was before Luke and Lorelai became a couple).

Logan is Christopher, the exciting one, with Marty as Luke : an attractive male friend who is half in love with you, and who is always there for you. Excitement on the one hand, security on the other. Rory is trying to model her relationships after Lorelai's.

[Ambrosefolly]

8 hours ago, tarotx said:

Logan was unhappy that Rory was keeping things from him. This was things done when Rory is his girlfriend. Logan probably still doesn't know Rory and Jess kissed during her s6 Philadelphia trip. And Logan's parachuting out of a plane trip happened because Rory wasn't talking to him. She was being a bitch even though she said she was fine. He didn't know how to deal with Rory and handled it with Colin&Finn. He had tried to get her to talk. She should never have moved back into his place when she was that angry. And if she didn't move back and say everything was ok, the Jess kiss would never have been an issue. 

And the reason s7 Logn went to dinner was he wanted to see how Rory was with her friends. He and Rory were having a long distance relationship and she wasn't telling her stuff. Even after Rory was unhappy with this issue earlier. Though Logan was talking about Bobby as if she was just a regular co worker, which she was. Rory had the right to be mad but Logan wasn't in the wrong. Rory was the one keeping secrets about time that she was in a relationship with Logan. And she was causing, even more, lying to happen. For no reason. Marty didn't deserve Rory keeping this from Lucy for him. And Logan and Rory were already in a weakened position because of the long distance and her attack of his friends a couple of weeks earlier. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, tarotx said:

Logan had a laid back chill attitude, Lucy was all cutesy and Rory and Marty were lying for no reason and acting like it with coy reservedness when anything could be about the lying.  I can't find a video of the scene but once I do I'll post it.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Logan was under no obligation to continue the lie. He was unhappy with it before Marty acted like a jerk. And yes, Marty was being a jerk. Being poor doesn't negate his actions  ... or whatever curve he's graded on. 

 That whole thing was no one but Marty's fault. Rory shouldn't have gone along with it, not for as long as she did. And Logan certainly didn't have to play along. 

ETA: Colin and Finn are Logan's friends. Marty is not. He owns him no loyalty.  How do we know what he thought of the farm girl one way or another? Hadn't he just come back from a trip himself and wanted to just hang out with his friends? It is not his place to straightened his group of friends. All the characters overlook questionable behavior from the people closest to them but somehow Logan's is judged for Colin and Finn's behavior.  

 

 

 

One, he did owe a degree of loyalty to Rory, his live in girlfriend, even if he didn't owe anything to Marty. Two, the statement about how Finn and Colin were Logan's friend indicates that Logan didn't find it that morally reprehensible, just he didn't like Marty in that moment and took it out on him and Rory the first moment he could.  I saw it recently and the episodes when Marty was reintroduced in season 7, MC acting had that undercurrent of Logan trying to be in control of the dinner, which was slightly more difficult because the place was someplace that Marty could actually afford and Marty and Lucy were Rory's friends, not Logan's. It is incredibly shortsighted of Logan to not realize why Rory wasn't forthcoming about seeing Marty after a couple years considering how weird everything went when Logan and Marty were competing for Rory and she hadn't interacted with the guy at all since she started sleeping with Logan.  While it was not the smartest move, I completely understand why Marty pretended not to know Rory considering how their initial friendship ended and why Rory went along with, and weirdly it had nothing to do with Lucy; Marty put her on the spot and Logan made the situation worse. And interacting with Marty again seemed like a recent development, not something that was going on for months.  He knew perfectly doing it the why he did would botch things not only with Marty but with Lucy.

The more I think about the more pissed I am at Logan for what he did to Rory, Marty aside. Once Rory became Logan's girl friend, she almost fully became that: Logan's girlfriend, not the Rory Gilmore she was freshman year. She didn't seem to have many close friends and hung out almost exclusively with LaDB, even if they weren't the normal type of people she would make friends with, as she tended to befriend quirky, plainer or more serious people like Lane, Dean, Jess and Paris, nor did Rory make friends that easily. It also didn't seem she had much of a relationship with the people outside of the Yale newspaper. Senior year she finally befriended some girls that seemed pretty fun and kind hearted (and not that different from Lorelai) and Logan nearly wrecks those budding friendships to stick it both Marty and Rory.

Rory was being a bitch, agreed, but  Logan isn't a fucking child, it isn't her responsibility to keep him from doing stupid things, whether or not she is perfectly happy with him or completely pissed. 

I started getting a bit pissed that it got to a point where the impression was that Lorelai and Rory had to walk on eggs shells after every interaction they had with exes or in the cause of Marty, an ex-male friend, no matter how innocent and/or brief the interactions were. Going over to Christopher's to drink tequila, even after his dad died, perfectly understandable that she should have told Luke right away and she probably shouldn't have done it in the first place, going to see Chris over a possible inheritance for Rory and worrying about what Luke would think, a little worrisome (even though Luke completely understood, though he was keeping the fact he had a 12 year old daughter from his fiancee at the time).

1 hour ago, hippielamb said:

Interesting that so many people defend Marty when he purposely needled Logan with that trust fund comment. Seemed like a jerk move to me. 

I don't like Marty. Period. I should, though. I have been a bartender for 20+ years, and have served rich, frat dudes plenty of times. They leave the best tips, fyi. Marty's sad sack woe is me attitude about money annoys me because we are supposed to feel bad for him. When in reality he got himself into these situations. If he didn't like working for the Life & Death crew, don't take the job (and the huge tips). Don't go to a restaurant with them when you don't like them, and don't have any money. Don't whine to the girl you like because you put yourself in an uncomfortable position. 

 

 

 

 

 

Logan had needled him in the past and was going in on a conversation thread about all the people that have a crush on Rory and Marty finally needled him back, albeit at a very stupid point.

Marty wasn't just a bartender, but a full-time student that recently found out that his dad wasn't his dad.  That is a lot of shit to deal with. He didn't like working for the LaDB, but a job is a job and he didn't think they would be so close to his life as one of them would start to woe the girl he had a crush on. He probably thought he could put them in a separate compartment from his personal life. I am sure even work study people don't absolutely love it that they have to take work study jobs, even if the jobs will pertain to their desire profession.  As someone mentioned, Marty probably tried to order the cheapest thing on the menu and hopefully didn't go family style with the dinner, but Colin divided it up to $75 per person, at a Chinese restaurant of all places. He wanted to hang out with Rory in a last ditch effort to gain her romantic affections and it backfired spectacularly. Rory sought Marty out, because she did care about him as a friend and he fessed about what he got himself into and eventually took Rory up on her offer for her to pay for him that night. He finally put his cards on the table with Rory and Rory as gently as possible, rejected his romantic interest, but still cared about him, but that weirdness would end any type of friendship, and she started having sex with Logan soon after. It also seemed Marty stopped bartending for the LaDB after that point over what happened with Rory, despite the money he would be losing.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[tarotx]

Rory wasn't telling Logan stuff. Again. He was unamused and didn't understand it. It meant trouble was on the horizon the other times it happened. I don't think Logan owed Rory lying to people. I mean Rory had the right to be mad at him and she was but she brought this on herself. And she doesn't deal with her feelings. She puts them aside after Logan apologizes and goes spends Christmas in London with him. Logan did confess to being a bit Jealous in the moment. Later Rory does confess right away when she has a crush on the TA because of what happened with Marty. And Logan Apologises again.

The whole situation was awkward because Rory and Marty lied to Lucy and Rory didn't tell Logan until she was forced too. There was no need to lie here.  Marty was just not in a good space because he still had a crush on Rory and was lying to his girlfriend. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by tarotx

[Ambrosefolly]

8 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Rory wasn't telling Logan stuff. Again. He was unamused and didn't understand it. It meant trouble was on the other times it happened. I don't think Logan owed Rory lying to people. I mean Rory had the right to be mad at him and she was but she brought this on herself. And she doesn't deal with her feelings. She puts them aside after Logan apologizes and goes spends Christmas in London with him. Logan did confess to being a bit Jealous in the moment. The whole situation was awkward because Rory and Marty lied to Lucy and Rory didn't tell Logan until she was forced too. There was no need to lie here.  Marty was just not in a good space because he still had a crush on Rory and was lying to his girlfriend. 

 

Did Marty truly have a crush on Rory at that point, or did he just seek a desire for some sort of validation from the girl that rejected him? On General Hospital, there was an ongoing storyline with the character Scott Baldwin chasing after his first wife, Laura (of Luke & Laura), who left him for her rapist (that would be Luke), and even though he had serious relationships and eventually married and fell in love with a model beautiful heiress that loved him in return, once Laura came back into his orbit decades later, he went into his old patterns of trying to woe her. I think Marty was happy in his relationship with Lucy, but the sudden reappearance of Rory threw him for a  loop and he was "Naked Guy" all over again and was trying to test if Rory might have had any romantic feelings towards him just for the sake of his own self worth. And considering that Logan not only failed to inform her that they had broken up, with his sister unwittingly telling Rory, he did let Rory walk into a room with at least two girls that he had sex with while he thought their fight  was a break up without informing her about the hook ups, not to mention the 6 months of hell she went through because of his asshole family, maybe he could cut her a little bit of slack he wished Rory gave him and kept his mouth shut about her and Marty's  short friendship until they were alone together. He knows Rory well enough that she wasn't trying to be a bitch to either Marty or Lucy by keeping the secret, and he should have also guessed that Rory was better friends Lucy than with Marty at that point. If Rory and Marty had coped to their friendship the moment they got reacquainted, but not that Marty had a huge crush on Rory and Rory rejected Marty for Logan, Logan would have outed that instead under the guise of thinking that Lucy was super duper nice.

[Frelling Tralk]

10 hours ago, hippielamb said:

I don't like Marty. Period. I should, though. I have been a bartender for 20+ years, and have served rich, frat dudes plenty of times. They leave the best tips, fyi. Marty's sad sack woe is me attitude about money annoys me because we are supposed to feel bad for him. When in reality he got himself into these situations. If he didn't like working for the Life & Death crew, don't take the job (and the huge tips). Don't go to a restaurant with them when you don't like them, and don't have any money. Don't whine to the girl you like because you put yourself in an uncomfortable position. 

I feel the same way honestly. Marty did put on a sad sack attitude all the time, even though there was nothing forcing him to accept Logan's invite to join them, and it was clear that he was understandably not thrilled at the thought of spending a social evening with Colin and Finn. He reminds me of those friends who put on Marty's attitude of 'no it's okay, I'll go with you' after you keep asking if they're sure that they want to do this, then do nothing but act miserable and put-upon all night. Again nothing was forcing him to hang out with people that he obviously harboured a lot of resentment towards, he could have very easily backed out of it by telling Rory that it's fine if she really wants to go out with Logan, they'll catch up another night. 

And okay Logan could have handled the dinner situation even more tactfully by saying that he was treating *everyone* to dinner, but he didn't purposely single out the only poor guy at the table either and make an issue of Marty having no money, he said that it was his treat for both Rory and Marty as he was the one that invited them. Marty was the one to draw attention to his lack of money by insisting that no I'll pay for myself, then fleeing to the street in supposed search of an ATM. Sure it was already obvious that Logan only really offered to treat them because Marty was poor, but it didn't need to be that big a deal, Marty was the one to shine a light on his huge insecurity about it. He certainly shouldn't have taken up Rory's offer to pay for him, as pointed out above Logan and his friends probably ate the bulk of the meal anyway as Marty and Rory had already been filling up on pizza and snack food before they went out, yet Rory gets stuck with a $75 share because Marty's male ego couldn't stand the thought of Logan paying for him 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Frelling Tralk

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

6 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Did Marty truly have a crush on Rory at that point, or did he just seek a desire for some sort of validation from the girl that rejected him?  And considering that Logan not only failed to inform her that they had broken up, with his sister unwittingly telling Rory, he did let Rory walk into a room with at least two girls that he had sex with while he thought their fight  was a break up without informing her about the hook ups, not to mention the 6 months of hell she went through because of his asshole family, maybe he could cut her a little bit of slack he wished Rory gave him and kept his mouth shut about her and Marty's  short friendship until they were alone together. He knows Rory well enough that she wasn't trying to be a bitch to either Marty or Lucy by keeping the secret, and he should have also guessed that Rory was better friends Lucy than with Marty at that point. If Rory and Marty had coped to their friendship the moment they got reacquainted, but not that Marty had a huge crush on Rory and Rory rejected Marty for Logan, Logan would have outed that instead under the guise of thinking that Lucy was super duper nice.

Nice guy Marty be facetious? Or dare I say it. Manipulative?  You jest. 

Logan is not responsible for how she reacted to his family. He was as supportive of her during that time as could be.

But Marty and Rory didn't cope to their past friendship.  

1. Had they coped to it, Logan wouldn't have told on them

2. Had Marty not needled him about his heritage, Logan wouldn't have told on them

3. More importantly, had Marty come clean to his girlfriend that he supposed lie at any point, Logan wouldn't have had the opportunity to hurt his poor feelings. 

4. Had Marty come clean to his girlfriend whom he loved when he found out they were dining with Logan, Logan wouldn't have had the upper hand.

Admitting to any one of these would put Marty, and only Marty in the wrong. But because he ... is poor? ... never got the girl (though she's the worst!)? ... we'll just dump Olivia getting hurt on Logan? I honestly don't get it.

[Kohola3]

Quote

One, he did owe a degree of loyalty to Rory, his live in girlfriend, even if he didn't owe anything to Marty. Two, the statement about how Finn and Colin were Logan's friend indicates that Logan didn't find it that morally reprehensible, just he didn't like Marty in that moment and took it out on him and Rory the first moment he could.

Classic male dominance move. If he truly had feelings for Rory, he would have taken her aside privately to discuss it.  Instead he wanted to make it clear he had her under his thumb by announcing things in a public place to a) show his power over her and b) humiliate Marty at the same time.  Hurting the innocent party's feelings were not even part of his thought process.  It never is with bullies.

[Ambrosefolly]

8 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Classic male dominance move. If he truly had feelings for Rory, he would have taken her aside privately to discuss it.  Instead he wanted to make it clear he had her under his thumb by announcing things in a public place to a) show his power over her and b) humiliate Marty at the same time.  Hurting the innocent party's feelings were not even part of his thought process.  It never is with bullies.

 

 

 

I'm I allowed to bring up things that happened during the current revival? Since I don't know

Spoiler

Logan's moral superiority about lying to a  girl kind of goes out the window knowing in 2016 he is cheating on his fiancee with his college girlfriend. Does it count as lying when he fails to mention that he has been sleeping with his ex while he is on some "business trip." It doesn't make it any better that it is some arranged marriage, especially if Rory is now pregnant with Logan's first child. Not only that, he doesn't seem to have much of a problem  with Rory lying to some unsuspecting sap, because it largely benefits him. And no, I don't give a shit that they are still "in love" and they are/were basically using these people. But hey, Rory and Marty no fessing up to a non sexual relationship that ended 2 years ago is way worse or at least on the same level. And you know that ASP will write things ending better for Logan one way or another than the show did for Marty. 

 

2

 

 

8 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Nice guy Marty be facetious? Or dare I say it. Manipulative?  You jest. 

Logan is not responsible for how she reacted to his family. He was as supportive of her during that time as could be.

But Marty and Rory didn't cope to their past friendship.  

1. Had they coped to it, Logan wouldn't have told on them

2. Had Marty not needled him about his heritage, Logan wouldn't have told on them

3. More importantly, had Marty come clean to his girlfriend that he supposed lie at any point, Logan wouldn't have had the opportunity to hurt his poor feelings. 

4. Had Marty come clean to his girlfriend whom he loved when he found out they were dining with Logan, Logan wouldn't have had the upper hand.

Admitting to any one of these would put Marty, and only Marty in the wrong. But because he ... is poor? ... never got the girl (though she's the worst!)? ... we'll just dump Olivia getting hurt on Logan? I honestly don't get it.

 

 

 

So I guess only alpha assholes are the only ones that are allowed to be manipulative and even liars and the nice guys are supposed to always be striving for sainthood . 

I guess it was a lot harder for Logan keep his mouth shut 24 hours after meeting Lucy face to face and seeing Marty for the first in nearly 2 years than it was to let Rory know that he had slept with two of the bridesmaids she would be interacting with at his sister's wedding while they were on a break, that Rory had no idea they were on until she was informed by his sister. 

Like I said, Logan could have easily said that Marty had at one time pursued Rory romantically even if Lucy knew from he jump that Marty and Rory were once friends.

Here is the thing, if Logan had instead kept quiet during dinner, even after that crack from Marty and told Rory later that night he would no longer be going along with whatever she and Marty were doing. She could again go to Marty, this time saying he needs to tell Lucy tonight about their friendship from freshman year because she would be talking to Lucy about it tomorrow, no matter what and Logan was being big enough not to out them, even after that dig Marty made. Maybe it would shame him or maybe it would turn him into a bigger jerk, but it would let Rory save some face with her new friendship with Lucy.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[ghoulina]

I'm torn on the Logan outing Rory and Marty issue. I think they're all culpable to different degrees; save Lucy, poor thing. Marty was the king jerk in this situation. He absolutely should never have pretended not to know Rory. Why? It's not like they were exes. By acting like there was something to hide, that was (to me) a way of showing he was STILL into Rory. And I really think he was, due to that awkward couch moment at the 2002 (2003?) party. 

Rory also shouldn't have gone along with it. But then that puts HER in the position of outing Marty's lie, and potentially hurting two friends. 

And I do think Logan was kind of dickish and immature about the way he handled it, but I could not have sat at that dinner and pretended I didn't know what was going on. It would have felt dirty. I think Logan was TRYING to play along. But then Lucy asked how he and Rory met and....well....they met because of Marty. So now Logan has to start telling tall tales as well? The lie was just getting too big. It was shitty to embarrass Lucy like that at the restaurant, but I don't think he knew what else to do at that point. 

In the end, I put most of the blame on Marty. I think he liked Lucy well enough, but still had Rory on this pedestal in his mind, and Lucy (IMO) deserved better. 

[shron17]

4 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

And I do think Logan was kind of dickish and immature about the way he handled it, but I could not have sat at that dinner and pretended I didn't know what was going on. It would have felt dirty. I think Logan was TRYING to play along. But then Lucy asked how he and Rory met and....well....they met because of Marty. So now Logan has to start telling tall tales as well? The lie was just getting too big. It was shitty to embarrass Lucy like that at the restaurant, but I don't think he knew what else to do at that point. 

After Rory explained the situation she offered to get Logan out of dinner and he declined.  Also, asking Lucy how she and Marty met made it likely she would ask Logan the same thing.  It seems to me Logan was fairly manipulative in the way he agreed to the dinner, started talking about everyone having a crush on Rory, and then responded to Marty's trust fund jab by asking Lucy how they met.  He wanted to let the secret out while appearing that he had no choice.  While I agree Marty shouldn't have lied in the first place and Rory shouldn't have gone along with it, it just wasn't Logan's secret to tell.  Especially since Rory had explained how it happened and expressed concern about Lucy's feelings. 

[TimetravellingBW]

On 1/29/2017 at 6:12 PM, tarotx said:

Rory wasn't telling Logan stuff. Again. He was unamused and didn't understand it. It meant trouble was on the horizon the other times it happened. I don't think Logan owed Rory lying to people. I mean Rory had the right to be mad at him and she was but she brought this on herself. And she doesn't deal with her feelings. She puts them aside after Logan apologizes and goes spends Christmas in London with him. Logan did confess to being a bit Jealous in the moment. Later Rory does confess right away when she has a crush on the TA because of what happened with Marty. And Logan Apologises again.

The whole situation was awkward because Rory and Marty lied to Lucy and Rory didn't tell Logan until she was forced too. There was no need to lie here.  Marty was just not in a good space because he still had a crush on Rory and was lying to his girlfriend. 

On 1/29/2017 at 7:47 AM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Logan was under no obligation to continue the lie. He was unhappy with it before Marty acted like a jerk. And yes, Marty was being a jerk. Being poor doesn't negate his actions  ... or whatever curve he's graded on. 

 That whole thing was no one but Marty's fault. Rory shouldn't have gone along with it, not for as long as she did. And Logan certainly didn't have to play along. 

I totally agree Marty shouldn't have lied in the first place and Rory shouldn't have gone along with it. I don't blame Logan for not being comfortable about it. However, I have issue with Logan outing them for several reasons

1) He didn't do it because he felt bad for Lucy or it was the right thing to do - he did it because he was angry about Marty's "trust fund" comment and wanted to reassert dominance over the situation. (As @Kohola3 said it was a show of power on his part to humiliate Marty). When you look at the conversation it's incredibly obvious Logan set up the situation to expose them due to Marty's comment: 

MARTY: Hey, I'm just waiting for that trust fund to kick in. [Rory's napkin falls on the floor] I got it. There.

RORY: Thanks.

LOGAN: [Pauses] So how did you two meet?

[Lucy tells her story]

LUCY: I can't believe I don't even know this. How did you two meet?

LOGAN: Actually, Marty introduced us.

Watching the scene, Logan clearly brought up the "how did you meet" to maneuver the conversation round to how he and Rory met so he was the innocent party in having to tell the truth. (He later comments that it was a direct question and he just gave an answer because had no choice. Which is horribly manipulative. Also he could have just told the story about Finn trying to find a girl at her dorm room). Marty's comment was rude but given Logan spent their past interactions passively-aggressively bullying him and putting him down I'm not going to frame Marty as the totally evil guy for making one jab. (Granted he should have got over it by now but hey, Logan this is what happens when you're a bully, people lash out. And how was Marty meant to know Logan had changed?)

2) In wanting to one up Marty and punish Rory he showed zero care for the one innocent person in the situation: Lucy. Rather than forcing Rory to talk to her sensitively, he put his own ego before the perfectly innocent girlfriend.

3) He revealed the truth in the most hurtful way possible and phrased it to give Mary and Rory's friendship far greater implications that it had.

LOGAN: I'm sorry. I can't be a part of this.

LUCY: A part of what?

RORY: Logan.

LOGAN: They've known each other since freshman year.

LUCY: I don't understand.

LOGAN: Rory and Marty, they used to hang out all the time at Branford and watch "Duck Soup."

They knew each other in freshman year, the last time they hung out was in sophomore year - don't make it sound like they've been carrying on this friendship since then. And referencing cutesy movie nights is just twisting the knife. If Logan wanted to reveal the truth gently to Lucy he could have just said they used to be friends a few years ago.

Logan wasn't acting out of genuine moral care for Lucy, he was acting out of spite.

On that note:

On 1/30/2017 at 10:19 AM, Ambrosefolly said:

I'm I allowed to bring up things that happened during the current revival? Since I don't know

  Hide contents

Logan's moral superiority about lying to a  girl kind of goes out the window knowing in 2016 he is cheating on his fiancee with his college girlfriend. Does it count as lying when he fails to mention that he has been sleeping with his ex while he is on some "business trip." It doesn't make it any better that it is some arranged marriage, especially if Rory is now pregnant with Logan's first child. Not only that, he doesn't seem to have much of a problem  with Rory lying to some unsuspecting sap, because it largely benefits him. And no, I don't give a shit that they are still "in love" and they are/were basically using these people. But hey, Rory and Marty no fessing up to a non sexual relationship that ended 2 years ago is way worse or at least on the same level. And you know that ASP will write things ending better for Logan one way or another than the show did for Marty. 

 

2

 

So I guess only alpha assholes are the only ones that are allowed to be manipulative and even liars and the nice guys are supposed to always be striving for sainthood . 

I guess it was a lot harder for Logan keep his mouth shut 24 hours after meeting Lucy face to face and seeing Marty for the first in nearly 2 years than it was to let Rory know that he had slept with two of the bridesmaids she would be interacting with at his sister's wedding while they were on a break, that Rory had no idea they were on until she was informed by his sister. 

That's such a good point about Logan's general view on being honest in relationships. While he did get better in s7 (when ASP wasn't writing him) when you take in the whole context of his character - asserting power over Marty and Rory in s5, his dishonesty regarding their break in s6, his cheating in the revival - he's the last person to stand on moral superiority. 

The more you break down Logan's actions the more worrying his dominance gets. I used to think his proposal ultimatum (I have a life planned for us! Say yes or everything's over!) was out of character but I'm reconsidering. He continually shows he needs control and most of their relationship is only ok because Rory goes along with him. Even his big romantic gesture (the coffee cart, saving the YDN, his heartfelt "I didn't cheat" speech, going to Lorelai) are when he's lost control and Rory's annoyed. And then things return to the status quo with a happy Logan because he got his way.

Edited January 31, 2017 by TimetravellingBW

[Ambrosefolly]

It should be noted in season 4, Rory stumbled upon Paris cheating on Jaime with Asher. Rory more or less let Paris know the disgust she had for what she was doing to Jaime, who came across as a pretty decent guy. Even with Jaime showing up at Yale and asking about what was wrong with Paris, Rory didn't out what Paris was doing and instead went to Paris to give her the ultimatum to deal with it. I wouldn't have faulted Rory one bit if she had caved in that moment, but she went directly to Paris and let Paris deal with it, and Paris was way more of a jerk to Jaime than Marty and Rory were to Lucy. 

Edited January 31, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[tarotx]

Augh >.< I'm going to try this again. The first I hit enter and the whole post disappeared >.<

Rory has full control of her choices.  S5 Rory is the one who doesn't tell Logan that she has made plans with Marty and she is staying in the plan. Though maybe because Logan and Rory had loose plans for the Saturday he got back. But she could have nipped that in the Bud. She didn't want to. She liked Logan's surprises. Until she didn't. And she made it known. And even when she took Logan back after Lorelai's letter, it wasn't right away a straight forgiveness to dating again. The bridesmaids fight kind of was but she was cold and treated him like shit. He tried to talk to her and she wouldn't talk. She didn't even tell him she needed time. She told him things were fine but acted like they weren't. 

Rory is the one who didn't tell Logan about Jess. He had no idea Jess was an ex so obvious they just didn't talk about the time they aren't a couple. And then after chasing down Jess Rory comes back and goes at Logan's character. And then choose to stay at the bar which he allowed her her own choice. And Rory is the one who didn't call to talk to Logan to make up or break up after the scene that was centered around her anger at him. That was her prerogative and she needed space but Logan had never been in a relationship until Rory. The public fight felt horrible drama filled. Logan went home for Thanksgiving, didn't want to deal with Honor Where's Rory, so he told her they had broken up. Then Honor called Rory. Now maybe Logan asked Honor to call Rory but either way from that moment Rory knew Logan considered them broken up. She didn't try to talk with Logan. So they weren't just on a break when Logan slept with the two Bridesmaids. And considering they didn't talk about exes it's not shocking that nothing was mentioned about the girls. Those girls were friends of Logans.  This wasn't about honesty or dominance. Rory and Logan just don't talk about their other partners when they aren't together - chaste or not. Which actually carries onwards into their Vegas agreement.  They get mad and a bit jealous but they still don't talk. But Logan thought they were doing so after Rory was sad that he didn't tell her Bobby was a girl. This comes on top of Rory writing that article about the people in his circle. I can see how it might have felt like the Jess situation again. 

 Rory isn't telling him things. And then she knows Logan's upset about it even if he says it's fine to go to dinner. He clearly wasn't. Once again they don't talk. And Rory and Marty both should have taken this time to plan out a course of action with Lucy. Rory because she knows Logan is upset and that it's wrong. Marty because he doesn't like Logan and he Knows he kind of showed he was still crushing Rory at the Party. The Jaime/Asher/Paris situation is different because Paris is the one Rory is friends with. Logan is friends with Rory and she isn't cheating or lying to her friend and not telling her boyfriend things. 

This issue with Marty and Lucy is also season 7 so Amy didn't write this either. I didn't remember Logan asking how Lucy and Marty met. But Logan gave Rory and Marty so many ins to telling Lucy. Marty really should have told Lucy instead of Jabbing Logan with the trust fund bit (which hit because Logan and Rory had an argument about his circle. So this is cumulative over a couple episodes).  

Logan's public proposal was a bit more public than the other intimate stuff Logan has surprised Rory with but the ask for her hand, the proposal itself and the ultimatum were 100% in character. Logan and Rory had agreed to factor each other in. She didn't get her Fellowship. Her career was wide open. So Logan felt that Rory would allow him to factor her in. He didn't have a lot of choices because his media field is dominated by his father's influence. Logan felt Rory loved him and they had been living together so a show of commitment was the next step. It overwhelmed Rory but even in the public party, Rory had control. She didn't feel obligated to say yes. Logan allowed her to tell him she needed time. And this felt like never or now to Logan. Rory wasn't just choosing a career over him, she was choosing a potential career in New York when she had great options in California. It didn't just feel like this was going to be a long distance to an eventual come together. This was what Paris and Doyle fought over in 7.19 and the Paris/Rory talk after. Rory wasn't  choosing a career - just a potential dream That was why the Ultimatum. And Rory said no even with the Ultimatum.  It was truly in character and not shocking for a couple who have dated for a while and lived together. Though Logan and Rory had never been truly stable-stable. Communication issues big time. But Rory has as much power in this relationship as Logan. 

Edited January 31, 2017 by tarotx

[Ambrosefolly]

48 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Augh >.< I'm going to try this again. The first I hit enter and the who post disappeared >.<

Rory has full control of her choices.  S5 Rory is the one who doesn't tell Logan that she has made plans with Marty and she is staying in the plan. Though maybe because Logan and Rory had loose plans for the Saturday he got back. But she could have nipped that in the Bud. She didn't want to. She liked Logan's surprises. Until she didn't. And she made it known. And even when she took Logan back after Lorelai's letter, it wasn't right away a straight forgiveness to dating again. The girlfriend fight kind of was but she was cold and treated him like shit. He tried to talk to her and she wouldn't talk. She didn't even tell him she needed time. She told him things were fine but acted like they weren't. 

Rory is the one who didn't tell Logan about Jess. He had no idea Jess was an ex so obvious they just didn't talk about the time they aren't a couple. And then after chasing down Jess Rory comes back and goes at Logan's character. And then choose to stay at the bar which he allowed her her own choice. And Rory is the one who didn't call to talk to Logan to make up or break up after the scene that was centered around her anger at him. That was her prerogative and she needed space but Logan had never been in a relationship until Rory. The public fight felt horrible drama filled. Logan went home for Thanksgiving, didn't want to deal with Honor Where's Rory, so he told her they had broken up. Then Honor called Rory. Now maybe Logan asked Honor to call Rory but either way from that moment Rory knew Logan considered them broken up. She didn't try to talk with Logan. So they weren't just on a break when Logan slept with the two Bridesmaids. And considering they didn't talk about exes it's not shocking that nothing was mentioned about the girls. Those girls were friends of Logans.  This wasn't about honesty or dominance. Rory and Logan just don't talk about their other partners when they aren't together - chaste or not. Which actually carries onwards into their Vegas agreement.  They get mad and a bit jealous but they still don't talk. But Logan thought they were doing so after Rory was sad that he didn't tell her Bobby was a girl. This comes on top of Rory writing that article about the people in his circle. I can see how it might have felt like the Jess situation again. 

 Rory isn't telling him things. And then she knows Logan's upset about it even if he says it's fine to go to dinner. He clearly wasn't. Once again they don't talk. And Rory and Marty both should have taken this time to plan out a course of action with Lucy. Rory because she knows Logan is upset and that it's wrong. Marty because he doesn't like Logan and he Knows he kind of showed he was still crushing Rory at the Party. The Jaime/Asher/Paris situation is different because Paris is the one Rory is friends with. Logan is friends with Rory and she isn't cheating or lying to her friend and not telling her boyfriend things. 

This issue with Marty and Lucy is also season 7 so Amy didn't write this either. I didn't remember Logan asking how Lucy and Marty met. But Logan gave Rory and Marty so many ins to telling Lucy. Marty really should have told Lucy instead of Jabbing Logan with the trust fund bit (which hit because Logan and Rory had an argument about his circle. So this is cumulative over a couple episodes).  

Logan's public proposal was a bit more public than the other intimate stuff Logan has surprised Rory with but the ask for her hand, the proposal itself and the ultimatum were 100% in character. Logan and Rory had agreed to factor each other in. She didn't get her Fellowship. Her career was wide open. So Logan felt that Rory would allow him to factor her in. He didn't have a lot of choices because his media field is dominated by his father's influence. Logan felt Rory loved him and they had been living together so a show of commitment was the next step. It overwhelmed Rory but even in the public party, Rory had control. She didn't feel obligated to say yes. Logan allowed her to tell him she needed time. And this felt like never or now to Logan. Rory wasn't just choosing a career over him, she was choosing a potential career in New York when she had great options in California. It didn't just feel like this was going to be a long distance to an eventual come together. This was what Paris and Doyle fought over in 7.19 and the Paris/Rory talk after. Rory wasn't  choosing a career - just a potential dream That was why the Ultimatum. And Rory said no even with the Ultimatum.  It was truly in character and not shocking for a couple who have dated for a while and lived together. Though Logan and Rory had never been truly stable-stable. Communication issues big time. But Rory has as much power in this relationship as Logan. 

 

You know what have been an even better in or out to get Rory to fess up to her platonic 1 and half year friendship with Marty? After the indian dinner, when they were alone and not making her look like some weirdo. Reading the analysis of him setting up Lucy so ask him about his and Rory's "Meet Cute" story, makes him an even bigger douche than I originally pegged him for. 

Watching Marty season 7, someone must have really hated the character during his first run, because the choice to have Marty pretend he didn't know Rory and act so cold to her, then act like he was still hung up on her seemed mean spirited and bizarre, especially if Rory and Marty revealed to Lucy where they lived freshman year and since they were all attending Yale, that could have easily been a conversation they could have had early on.

As for the bridesmaids debacle, he knew perfectly well they would be in his sister's wedding party and therefore, could very well tell Rory that they had slept with Logan during the time they were separated. Rory even mentioned it. Lorelei knew this when Christopher appeared at her parent's wedding and she quickly explained to Luke about her night of tequila drinking with her ex so Luke wouldn't be completely blindsided if Christopher happened to talk to Luke. Either he was stupid or didn't care enough about potentially hurting Rory's feelings. 

As for season 5 and the Chinese dinner, it seemed that Rory wasn't even expecting him to even be in town. He just showed up and pretty much told her and Marty to come along with the other friends he had spoken earlier about the dinner. 

[shron17]

7 hours ago, tarotx said:

 Rory isn't telling him things. And then she knows Logan's upset about it even if he says it's fine to go to dinner. He clearly wasn't. Once again they don't talk.

Logan is also in full control of his choices.  He chose to out his girlfriend about a secret she was keeping in a public way that could have easily cost her two friends (Lucy and Olivia).  He wasn't upset because a secret was being kept from poor Lucy, he was mad at Marty for creating the situation and mad at Rory for allowing him to do it.  

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

As for the bridesmaids debacle, he knew perfectly well they would be in his sister's wedding party and therefore, could very well tell Rory that they had slept with Logan during the time they were separated. Rory even mentioned it. Lorelei knew this when Christopher appeared at her parent's wedding and she quickly explained to Luke about her night of tequila drinking with her ex so Luke wouldn't be completely blindsided if Christopher happened to talk to Luke. Either he was stupid or didn't care enough about potentially hurting Rory's feelings. 

I don't think he expected Rory to talk to them much.  She wasn't expecting to spend time with them either- she was planning on working on her laptop until the wedding, but Honor begged her to come hang out with her and the girls. 

On a related note, I hate all the "fashion" that episode.  The bridesmaids' dresses didn't look to me like what I would expect at a Huntsberger wedding, and the most of the girls' hair just looked tragic.  Rory's dress looked like a trash bag. 

[Ambrosefolly]

1 minute ago, deaja said:

I don't think he expected Rory to talk to them much.  She wasn't expecting to spend time with them either- she was planning on working on her laptop until the wedding, but Honor begged her to come hang out with her and the girls. 

On a related note, I hate all the "fashion" that episode.  The bridesmaids' dresses didn't look to me like what I would expect at a Huntsberger wedding, and the most of the girls' hair just looked tragic.  Rory's dress looked like a trash bag. 

 

It was still a possibility considering they were publicly dating again.

[Taryn74]

45 minutes ago, deaja said:

On a related note, I hate all the "fashion" that episode.  The bridesmaids' dresses didn't look to me like what I would expect at a Huntsberger wedding, and the most of the girls' hair just looked tragic.  Rory's dress looked like a trash bag. 

Truly.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I didn't mind the Grecian gown on its own but, the coat she wore, that she lent to Doyle, made it worse. 

[ghoulina]

Her posture made it worse. 

[TimetravellingBW]

3 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Truly.

Ugh I'm glad I'm not alone on hating that dress, the shape and colour is terrible on her. Someone like Paris with more muted colouring can pull off that grey-green but not Rory/Alexis, I don't know what the costume department was thinking. Just stick her in a clear blue or pink. (I'm still sad we never saw that original LDB dress again, she looked stunning. I think Logan may have better dress sense than Rory). 

Edited January 31, 2017 by TimetravellingBW

[Taryn74]

39 minutes ago, TimetravellingBW said:

I think Logan may have better dress sense than Rory

HA!  You're not wrong, though.

[hippielamb]

On 1/28/2017 at 10:05 PM, Ambrosefolly said:

Logan had needled him in the past and was going in on a conversation thread about all the people that have a crush on Rory and Marty finally needled him back, albeit at a very stupid point.

Marty wasn't just a bartender, but a full-time student that recently found out that his dad wasn't his dad.  That is a lot of shit to deal with. He didn't like working for the LaDB, but a job is a job and he didn't think they would be so close to his life as one of them would start to woe the girl he had a crush on. He probably thought he could put them in a separate compartment from his personal life. I am sure even work study people don't absolutely love it that they have to take work study jobs, even if the jobs will pertain to their desire profession.  As someone mentioned, Marty probably tried to order the cheapest thing on the menu and hopefully didn't go family style with the dinner, but Colin divided it up to $75 per person, at a Chinese restaurant of all places. He wanted to hang out with Rory in a last ditch effort to gain her romantic affections and it backfired spectacularly. Rory sought Marty out, because she did care about him as a friend and he fessed about what he got himself into and eventually took Rory up on her offer for her to pay for him that night. He finally put his cards on the table with Rory and Rory as gently as possible, rejected his romantic interest, but still cared about him, but that weirdness would end any type of friendship, and she started having sex with Logan soon after. It also seemed Marty stopped bartending for the LaDB after that point over what happened with Rory, despite the money he would be losing.

I have known plenty of college kids who bartend on the weekends. They don't whine about it, usually it's bragging how much money they made. Marty seems miscast as a bartender anyway. He doesn't seem to be social and outgoing (not that it's a prerequisite but it certainly helps). 

Marty put himself into these situations. He knew that Logan liked Rory, he told her so when they were searching for the Chilton student that went MIA. Marty probably suspected that Rory liked Logan too. We, the audience certainly did. He should have bowed out when Logan invited them to dinner. His taunting of Logan seemed stupid in season 7, because he was keeping a pretty big secret from Lucy. Why antagonise someone who is keeping this secret is beyond me. 

[Ambrosefolly]

On 1/31/2017 at 5:32 PM, hippielamb said:

I have known plenty of college kids who bartend on the weekends. They don't whine about it, usually it's bragging how much money they made. Marty seems miscast as a bartender anyway. He doesn't seem to be social and outgoing (not that it's a prerequisite but it certainly helps). 

Marty put himself into these situations. He knew that Logan liked Rory, he told her so when they were searching for the Chilton student that went MIA. Marty probably suspected that Rory liked Logan too. We, the audience certainly did. He should have bowed out when Logan invited them to dinner. His taunting of Logan seemed stupid in season 7, because he was keeping a pretty big secret from Lucy. Why antagonise someone who is keeping this secret is beyond me. 

 

 

I wonder if ASP ever had to work or knew anyone holding down jobs during her college years?  Did she go to college (I couldn't find anything written)? Judging by her imdb page, she seemed to have her writing success right out the gate. Because a lot of people who worked didn't wear their bitterness on their sleeves like that. If you were working with other people around your age, it was just another place to make friends. 

Because Marty knew that Rory and Logan liked each other, he tried to avoid her all together until Rory chased him down after she saw him through the window ordering coffee and badgered him to spend the evening with her.Marty and Rory had downed a ton of food, which was easily visible when Logan walked in and pretty much ordered them to come out to dinner, not taking no for an answer.  

Edited February 1, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[hippielamb]

4 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I wonder if ASP ever had to work or knew anyone holding down jobs during her college years?  Did she go to college (I couldn't find anything written)? Judging by her imdb page, she seemed to have her writing success right out the gate. Because a lot of people who worked didn't wear their bitterness on their sleeves like that. If you were working with other people around your age, it was just another place to make friends. 

It makes you wonder. None of the college kids seemed to enjoy working and making friends. 

Amy doesn't seem to know how certain professions work: Rory's journalism is a perfect example. I try not to be too nickpicky about this stuff but when you have personal experience with a profession or lifestyle it can be hard not to be a little picky when they get it wrong.

[clack]

Well, we know what Logan thought of Marty's bartending. Logan called Marty a "servant". No doubt the L&DB treated him as such.

To lose Rory to this crowd of spoiled, contemptuous douches must have been galling. That's one of the reasons season 7 Marty never rang true. Rory would not have been to him some "the one who got away" figure who he still held a torch for, but rather someone who had, on a deep level, betrayed him.

Not saying that he couldn't still be in love with Rory, but there should have been feelings of hurt and anger manifesting themselves in Marty's behavior that we never quite got to see. Seeing those emotions reflected in Marty's behavior would have been much more dramatically interesting than the implausible weirdness that we did get.

[Taryn74]

28 minutes ago, clack said:

Rory would not have been to him some "the one who got away" figure who he still held a torch for, but rather someone who had, on a deep level, betrayed him.

Such a good point!

[HeySandyStrange]

3 hours ago, clack said:

To lose Rory to this crowd of spoiled, contemptuous douches must have been galling. That's one of the reasons season 7 Marty never rang true. Rory would not have been to him some "the one who got away" figure who he still held a torch for, but rather someone who had, on a deep level, betrayed him.

Excellent point! Going off of that, it would've made sense for Marty, instead of acting weird and secretive about their past friendship, to have been upfront about it  but not embracing Rory like Lucy. Rory could've tried buddy up to him again but he would keep a polite distance, which would gall Rory since she was used to everyone loving her. Which could've cumulated in Rory confronting him and him telling her how her dropping him for her other, richer friends made him feel betrayed and he didn't feel like he could ever trust her or be friends with her again, though he would be polite for his girlfriend's sake. I'm really wishing now we got something like that, instead of them ruining Marty's character for no good reason.

[txhorns79]

Quote

That's one of the reasons season 7 Marty never rang true.

I felt like the storyline didn't ring true because no one acted like a normal human being.   From Lucy never actually saying her boyfriend's name until we get a reveal, to Marty making things immediately weird and awkward by pretending not to know Rory (for no real reason) to Rory actually going along with the deception, again for no real reason.  

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Just watched You Jump I Jump, Jack and I can see why Rory would be drawn to the LDB. She was introduced into a world unlike any other she's known. The weekend she spent must be unforgettable, I mean the jump was the highlight but it was all excitement from the time Logan pulled her into the SUV. Hey, also look at Rory doing some real journalism. I wouldn't climb up that thing for any amount of money and I think of myself to be quite unadventurous.

So many quotes I loved but I'll only quote two.

Rory: "It was a lifetime experience"

Logan: "Only if you want it to be"

Anyway, I like the whole arc quite a lot. 

Poor Luke saying thanking Emily for her jabs. 

ETA: Liz and TJ are obnoxious as heck. I can't FF their scenes fast enough.

LoreLia: Rory will choose her own path in life

Rory pulls up with Logan.

The look on Lorelai's face as she watches through the window ....... Kudos to Lauren Graham for conveying a thousand emotion without any words.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Kudos to Heather Graham for conveying a thousand emotion without any words.

nm

Edited February 3, 2017 by Kohola3
Just recognized error, no need for snark.

[Guest]

I have a random statement about Gilmore Girls that I want to make. 

One of my least favorite scenes in the series where I am most aggravated with both Lorelai and Rory is after Chris starts paying for Yale but they haven't told Emily and Richard.  (I think it is in Friday Night's Alright for Fighting.)  Lorelai finds out that R&E don't know that they are no longer paying, and it is just assumed by both Rory and Lorelai that Lorelai needs to call them to let them know. Um, why? The whole arrangement was worked out between Rory and the grandparents. Rory had made it clear by then that she felt she was an adult who didn't need guidance in her life.  There was no need for that to be Lorelai's situation to resolve.

[FictionLover]

8 hours ago, deaja said:

I have a random statement about Gilmore Girls that I want to make. 

One of my least favorite scenes in the series where I am most aggravated with both Lorelai and Rory is after Chris starts paying for Yale but they haven't told Emily and Richard.  (I think it is in Friday Night's Alright for Fighting.)  Lorelai finds out that R&E don't know that they are no longer paying, and it is just assumed by both Rory and Lorelai that Lorelai needs to call them to let them know. Um, why? The whole arrangement was worked out between Rory and the grandparents. Rory had made it clear by then that she felt she was an adult who didn't need guidance in her life.  There was no need for that to be Lorelai's situation to resolve.

Agreed. Rory threw her  mother under the bus a lot! How about when Lorelai was running errands and packing Luke's truck for Rory leaving for college and Rory couldn't tell her grandma why she couldn't make it to dinner. Not a Rory fan.

[hippielamb]

8 hours ago, deaja said:

I have a random statement about Gilmore Girls that I want to make. 

One of my least favorite scenes in the series where I am most aggravated with both Lorelai and Rory is after Chris starts paying for Yale but they haven't told Emily and Richard.  (I think it is in Friday Night's Alright for Fighting.)  Lorelai finds out that R&E don't know that they are no longer paying, and it is just assumed by both Rory and Lorelai that Lorelai needs to call them to let them know. Um, why? The whole arrangement was worked out between Rory and the grandparents. Rory had made it clear by then that she felt she was an adult who didn't need guidance in her life.  There was no need for that to be Lorelai's situation to resolve.

I agree but Lorelai was trying to keep the peace between them. Rory didn't seem to care how the grandparents felt. Which, Emily I get. But Richard did nothing to deserve that treatment from Rory. 

[FictionLover]

So, I have a question for "Team Whatever Guy you Ship".  This question is not sarcastic, I really want to know. If you have a guy that you really like why would you want him to end up with Rory, especially after the shallow, thoughtless and selfish one we were given in the revival?  Even Alexis was surprised how she was written.  I liked Rory for the first four seasons but once she turned into a whiney annoying character, she lost me.  But after Revival Rory I was surprised anyone cared who she ended up with.  Just wondering...

[Winter Rose]

34 minutes ago, FictionLover said:

So, I have a question for "Team Whatever Guy you Ship".  This question is not sarcastic, I really want to know. If you have a guy that you really like why would you want him to end up with Rory, especially after the shallow, thoughtless and selfish one we were given in the revival?  Even Alexis was surprised how she was written.  I liked Rory for the first four seasons but once she turned into a whiney annoying character, she lost me.  But after Revival Rory I was surprised anyone cared who she ended up with.  Just wondering...

Oh I agree. At the very least however, I can say that the revival didn't hurt Rory/Jess and given the way Rory was written, I find myself grateful. But I don't wish her on him. If Revival Rory is who she was always meant to be then absolutely there's something depressing, rather than hopeful, as a fan of the pair when Jess looks at her through the window. But if the Rory we all once knew and loved is still in there somewhere, I can't pretend I wouldn't be thrilled to see her and Jess find each other again. At this point, and It's crazy to think about, I've been a fan of Rory/Jess for more than half my life.

That said, the revival has pushed me to the point where something would need to come from Rory's side for me to feel the investment again because time and time again it came from Jess and was met with rejection, which I'm just tired of. I want the timing to be right but they need to meet each other halfway. If that's never going to happen, Jess should just cut his losses.

[TimetravellingBW]

I'm pretty much where @Winter Rose is. I liked Rory/Jess in the original show (though I only converted after Jess's s6 transformation) but I don't think current shallow, spoiled Rory is good for him. If there was any original s1-4 Rory left or she refound the sweet, bookish version of herself I'd like them to end up together, but it would have to come from Rory. She should be the one throwing longing looks through windows and pursuing him because she's rejected Jess so many times and it's sad he's still hung up on her. (I understand why she pushed him away in s4, he had behaved awfully and ditched her - but he didn't deserve her playing with him in s6). They'd need to break this "Jess is always pining and never feels good enough for Rory" thing, because that may have made sense in high school when she was this high-flying golden girl and he was seemingly heading nowhere, but in the revival Jess is a nice, fairly successful and emotionally-together guy while Rory is a serial cheater (and unemployed and knocked up to boot). So if they got together it should happen after Rory's got herself together and appreciated him. 

If there was a s2 AYITL and Rory was still just as terrible, I'd be open to them introducing other love interests/stories for Jess and leaving Rory behind. At this point I care more about Jess's happiness than Rory's, which is pretty sad. But I'm grateful that the revival didn't tarnish Jess's character development and he was one of the few characters who actually grew up in the past 10 years. 

I really feel for Rory/Logan fans who were given a matured Logan and fairly healthy Rory/Logan relationship in s7 only for them to be toxic, selfish cheaters in the revival. In the OS I loathed Logan initially but did appreciate he'd developed into a good guy by s7, even if I didn't think he was compatible with Rory. Post-revival the initial issues with him in s5/6 (his arrogance, need to be in control, how he treated those "below" him, the way he treated women, the person Rory was around him) all came back 10 times worse. And for me that's not a big deal because I never cared much about Logan but regressing his character so much is pretty unfair for Logan fans. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by TimetravellingBW