All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[txhorns79]

The one thing I'm finding curious is the lead up to the split with Emily and Richard. It seems to come out of nowhere. I saw the episode where Emily found out that Richard was having lunch with his old flame, but it seems like aside from a passing snide comment after that episode, not much happens between Emily and Richard that would lead you to believe they were separated.

 

I feel like there was a slow build up where small things added up to a big result.  It was established that Emily felt like Richard didn't value her or what she did for him or their home.  You saw that in the episode where Emily's big party for Richard's clients gets sidelined by Jason.  You see it again when Emily goes on her huge shopping spree, and Richard doesn't even notice that she bought something new.  The lunches with Pennilyn were just another step in the process.  She got upset over them, started to move on, then got smacked in the face with Grams' copy of the note advising Richard to leave Emily for Pennilyn the day before Emily and Richard's wedding.  Finally, you get the situation with Jason where it was revealed that Richard was heavily leveraged, again without Emily's knowledge, and was threatening to drive Lorelai away by trying to ruin Jason.  I think the combination of all that was just too much.   

[desertflower]

Yeah, I think it built up slowly, and then if you watch the scene where she confronts Richard about what he was doing to Jason, you can see her kind of snap. It's subtle, and she doesn't cause a scene, but she has a look on her face that seems to indicate that was the last straw. She had enough.

[lottiedottie]

Yeah, I think it built up slowly, and then if you watch the scene where she confronts Richard about what he was doing to Jason, you can see her kind of snap. It's subtle, and she doesn't cause a scene, but she has a look on her face that seems to indicate that was the last straw. She had enough.

I watch the show while I'm working, so I'm mostly listening. Sounds like I missed some important nonverbals! I did see the scene where Emily said something about the apples, and Richard said he always liked them and the look on her face. I felt for her there.

[takalotti]

I don't remember the details of the scene/dialogue when Emily 'snaps,' but I remember how I felt when I watched it. I think that was the first time I really bought that Emily cared about being part of Lorelai's life. It wasn't about losing control of Lorelai, it was about *losing Lorelai*.

She didn't like being sidelined as the party planner, but she sucked it up. She didn't like having Richard overlook her even when she threw a monetary tantrum, but she sucked it up. Lots of things were happening that indicated Richard didn't care about Emily, but she kept sucking it up. (Note: I'm not saying she SHOULD have sucked it up or that she was correct to suck it up, just that she did.)

But when Richard didn't seem to care about losing Lorelai, that's what broke her.

[dustylil]

That was always my interpretation as well. I kept hoping that at some point Lorelai would find out about  this. Just as she learned years later of Emily taking to her bed after she left with Rory.

 

To paraphrase that duet from Fiddler on the Roof  -

 It doesn't change a thing
 But even so
 After so many years
 It's nice to know.

[takalotti]

That was always my interpretation as well. I kept hoping that at some point Lorelai would find out about this.

Okay, since I asked if I could take a different idea from you in another thread for my fanfic, now I have to give a disclaimer that I already thought of this one. So when you see it pop up, I didn't steal it! ;)

(I realize this sounds like I'm presuming you read it, but I don't. But if you take a look at it when you get your shoutout, I didn't want you to go HEY! when you see your other idea without a shoutout. Yes, I think too hard about things and ruin my own 'jokes.')

Getting back to Emily, though, there's only one thing that doesn't sit well with this interpretation of why Emily separated from Richard.

So it seems to her that Richard doesn't care about losing Lorelai and she reaches her breaking point and separates from him. Fortunately she doesn't actually lose Lorelai over the Jason debacle, but they still stay separated until Richard finally cares enough about losing Emily to hit her car with his (insert eye roll). And then they reconcile.

So then what does Emily do? She schemes to mess up Lorelai's love life. Not as an unfortunate side effect of a business deal or something else. Nope, messing it up is the primary goal because it's getting too serious so she can't just wait out the implosion like most Lorelai's other relationships.

So is this character whiplash caused by bad writing? Or is this consistent with Emily's character? She does tend to have a "rules only apply to others, not to me" philosophy, like how she corrects other people's etiquette while overlooking the fact that doing so is poor etiquette, or how she expects nice manners from people but is down right nasty to others. So of course she would take issue with Richard risking a fallout with Lorelai, but it's okay for her to risk it.

?

Edited June 17, 2015 by takalotti

[dustylil]

I am not sure Emily thought there would  be an implosion in the relationship  this time.  She  did after all see Lorelai holding up a  wedding dress in front of a mirror. So to her way of thinking, Emily had to take action before that looking-glass fantasy became a reality.

 

Also, Emily Gilmore was no Emily Post. Totally apart from her frequent rudeness, her grasp of etiquette and related terminology was less than stellar. After rebuking Luke for offering his congratulations (rather than his best wishes)  to her before the vow renewal, she committed the same faux pas with Lorelai when she realized that Lorelai and Luke were engaged. She also confused afternoon tea (a late afternoon snack) with high tea (an evening meal) -  an error also made by Trix. And when instructing young Charlotte in Season 7 on correct dinner serving practices, she told the little girl that service a la russe had nothing to do with the Russians. In point of fact it had everything to do with the Russians. It was how food was presented in formal dining  in that country and later spread to Western Europe and North America.

[takalotti]

I am not sure Emily thought there would be an implosion in the relationship this time. She did after all see Lorelai holding up a wedding dress in front of a mirror. So to her way of thinking, Emily had to take action before that looking-glass fantasy became a reality.

I must not have been clear because that's what I was trying to say.

Before she saw that it was "getting too serious" (meaning she caught Lorelai looking at wedding dresses quite sentimentally) with Luke, I'd imagine Emily doesn't take Lorelai's relationships too seriously because they usually implode. So she doesn't have to try too hard to mess up a relationship she doesn't approve of (her passive aggressive digs at Luke at FND don't really count because to her she wasn't risking losing Lorelai since she could always feign innocence. "What do you mean? I was paying him a compliment.").

Now I'm thinking more about the difference between Richard's actions regarding Jason being so unforgivable and Emily's actions regarding Luke being acceptable. (This is all me trying to think as Emily, so I'm not saying the following makes sense to a rational person.)

1) Richard's actions didn't actually threaten a breakup between Lorelai and Jason. Yes, that's what happened, but at the moment that Emily snapped, it didn't really seem like the concern was that the lawsuit would cause a break up and then Lorelai would be mad. It seemed more like Emily was worried Lorelai would feel she had to pick a side and would choose Jason over family.

Meanwhile, when Emily meddled she was orchestrating a breakup. If successful, there would be no choosing a man over family because the man would be out of the picture. Sure, Lorelai would be sad or mad (or smad), but wouldn't feel she had to disown her family to be with her man like in the case with Jason.

2) Richard's actions were transparent. If those actions affected Lorelai, she would know the root cause.

Emily tried to be sneaky. If Chris successfully derailed Lorelai and Luke, no one would have to know Emily was behind it. So Emily's actions would affect Lorelai, but ideally she'd never know the root cause. So that makes it "okay" because if she never finds out, then there's no risk to the family relationship.

Edited June 23, 2015 by takalotti

[dustylil]

Trying to attribute logical thinking to any of the Gilmores is likely a game for fools. So naturally I shall play! 

 

I can see Emily making a distinction in her actions vs. those of Richard because of the individual men involved. As well, there was the role she saw that she must play in the life of her heedless daughter.

 

Jason was one of their set, a man of  breeding, worldly, educated, and accomplished  - though much had been handed to him. Even if Emily herself disliked him (for what I always thought were good and valid reasons), he was by the standards of her social set, a perfectly adequate suitor and possible marital partner for Lorelai. He was in effect a real person with real value in Hartford society - someone to be taken seriously.

 

Luke on the other hand was a hirsute lout, a small town bumpkin, perhaps adequate for a temporary dalliance, but not worthy of marrying her daughter, step-parenting Rory  and having  a connection with the Gilmore clan. He was utterly disposable in her view and dispose of him she must.

[junienmomo]

2) Richard's actions were transparent. If those actions affected Lorelai, she would know the root cause.

 

 

 

Richard wasn't all that transparent. That whole debacle with Jason's father was hard for me to figure out how much Richard may have been colluding with Jason's dad before they stabbed him in the back.

More clear than that was the time Emily berated Richard for golfing with Luke. Richard showed his heartless side then by describing how he was playing the long game with L/L. Be polite to Luke, but keep the pressure on to take over Luke's business, make him a figurehead and reprogram him enough to be able to take him to the club on holidays, describing the L/L relationship as insane. At least Emily was more obvious. Lorelai wouldn't have caught on to Richard's ploy until it was perhaps too late.

Despicable behavior.

[Taryn74]

...at the moment that Emily snapped, it didn't really seem like the concern was that the lawsuit would cause a break up and then Lorelai would be mad. It seemed more like Emily was worried Lorelai would feel she had to pick a side and would choose Jason over family.

 

Bingo!

 

Re: Emily, Lorelai, Luke, Christopher..... I honestly believe that Emily assumed for whatever reasons Lorelai had decided to "settle" for Luke, even though deep down Lorelai has always wanted things to work out with Christopher (and say what you will, Emily had every reason to believe that -- Christopher was ALWAYS the one Lorelai went back to, and by her own admission he was the one she wanted to want), and so Emily took steps to insure that Lorelai knew Christopher was available and willing before Lorelai did something she might regret.  I'm sure Emily knew Lorelai would be upset for a while, but assumed she would get over it soon enough, and her long-term happiness was more important than avoiding a temporary tiff. 

 

Where Emily messed up is that she had no idea how deeply Lorelai actually felt for Luke.  Luke was not the temporary guy that her flighty daughter had decided she loved best at the moment (*cough* Max *cough*), Emily's mistake was not realizing that before she intervened.  She probably would have still intervened, because she's Emily and Luke as a son-in-law was still unnacceptable, but she would have gone about it differently.

 

All IMO of course.

[dustylil]

In fairness to Emily (ack!) though, once she realized  that Lorelai did  deeply love Luke (and urged him to go back to her), she never again interfered in their relationship. That particular implosion was all on them. Emily even went so far as to try to establish a bond with a little girl she thought was April and  was making arrangements to buy a house that suited both Luke and Lorelai when the engagement ended.

[takalotti]

Richard wasn't all that transparent. That whole debacle with Jason's father was hard for me to figure out how much Richard may have been colluding with Jason's dad before they stabbed him in the back.

More clear than that was the time Emily berated Richard for golfing with Luke. Richard showed his heartless side then by describing how he was playing the long game with L/L. Be polite to Luke, but keep the pressure on to take over Luke's business, make him a figurehead and reprogram him enough to be able to take him to the club on holidays, describing the L/L relationship as insane. At least Emily was more obvious. Lorelai wouldn't have caught on to Richard's ploy until it was perhaps too late.

Despicable behavior.

Haha, yeah, I agree that Richard is not generally transparent. All I meant was that the business deal that cut out Jason was out in the open. Rightly or wrongly, Richard screwed over Jason in a way that there was no way to hide. He couldn't just innocently say, "Oh wow, how did that happen?"

But as long as Emily and Chris kept their mouths shut, her prodding visit wasn't out in the open.

Side note: I went back and read the scene to refresh my memory and apparently there was the possibility of a break up when Emily asked Richard if he really had to do all that he was doing. She overheard Lorelai telling Richard that Jason might have to move away to restart his career and how she wouldn't be able to go with him. So it seems the concern was more that Lorelai would blame her dad for a break up than it was concern that Lorelai would choose Jason over family.

Edited June 23, 2015 by takalotti

[txhorns79]

In fairness to Emily (ack!) though, once she realized  that Lorelai did deeply love Luke (and urged him to go back to her), she never again interfered in their relationship.

 

If I remember right, I thought she was responding to the freeze out she received from Lorelai and Rory over the situation, and realized what kind of mess she had made for herself.  I want to say that Richard even commented to her that her plan had backfired, and they had to deal with the situation as it was.  That was why she later thought things would be fine and Lorelai/Rory would not be mad anymore when she heard Luke and Lorelai were back together. 

[supergirlsudz]

Long-time fan, currently re-watching the entire series on Netflix. I’ve re-watched S1-S4 countless times, but always stopped after “Raincoats and Recipes” because 1.) S5 was the only one I haven’t gotten around to buying on DVD and 2.) My memories of anything after S4 were not pleasant. But now with Netflix, I plowed through S5 and it wasn’t as bad as I had remembered. I recall watching each week, back in the day, and being utterly dismayed that they broke Luke and Lorelai up so soon. I felt burned by the show and never was able to watch it with the same enthusiasm again. But in this re-watch, I realized they were really only apart for a couple of episodes. In binge watching land, that’s like 3 hours! And I found how they got back together to be really compelling. Plus, my past level of interest in them maaaay have been a bit unhealthy :)
 

Last night, I watched episodes 2-4 of S6 and found myself really, really bumming at the sad state of Rory and Lorelai’s relationship. Going from seeing them as best friends to cold acquaintances so quickly was rough to watch. And I hated that Rory moaned to Logan “I have to go see my mother!” just like Lorelai would have said about Emily.

I’m not sure I really buy that Rory would fully drop out of Yale. It was dramatic, for sure, but it was kind of crazy to see someone who was so laser focused on school suddenly have no interest in it, just because one person dared to criticize her. Maybe it would have been more true to character if she started partying too much with Logan and flunking her classes instead. Or just had a more gradual “breakdown” in general.

Holy crap, are Richard and Emily controlling. In the beginning of S6, Rory gets to see just what her mother had to deal with growing up. Rory’s personality is more suited to dealing with being controlled by Richard and Emily, but her soulless stare when she gets inducted into the DAR shows she doesn’t find being their puppet to be fulfilling. I will say I wish I could get my hair to look like hers when she’s DAR-ing. What a cute up-do.

I’m going to keep on with my re-watch, but I can’t say I’m excited to see the introduction of April and the true demise of Luke and Lorelai. I wish GG had kept them together and instead found other ways to bring the drama.

Edited June 23, 2015 by supergirlsudz

[dustylil]

I agree supergirlsudz that Rory may have gained some sense of what life with Richard and Emily was like for Lorelai growing up. I never thought she fully grasped how her mother felt as a child and teenager in that home.  But at least  by Season 6 Rory had choices. At the age of twenty she could left her gilded jail and - gasp - become an adult and self-supporting. For whatever reason, this option did not appear to occur to her.

[alexa]

A couple of things on a season 3 episode:

 

When Jess was skipping school to work at Walmart, does it make any sense that Luke wouldn't have been notified by the school long before?  Schools don't just have someone miss multiple days and not check in with the guardian/parents.  Maybe in Stars Hollow they do?

 

In the episode where Lorelai's father gives her 75K dollars from the investment..... later on Lorelai pays her parents back for Chilton, and though we all know Emily is sensitive to the whole Friday dinner thing--her reaction to being paid back just was a bit over the top.  I think they knew that Lorelai may never be able to pay them, but that she did see it as a loan, and if she could she would pay them.  What really irritated me though is when Rory gets on her case about it afterwards, which was totally unfair given that Rory got the education she wanted, and the fact that Lorelai went to her parents for the money was a big deal.  I found it insensitive of Rory to not see that it was a big deal to her, and that paying them back was important to her.

 

I haven't watched the full series for a few years so I don't remember what happens with the Yale education/how they pay for it, but I am pretty sure Emily and Richard are involved.  The above is just a discussion on that specific episode.

[takalotti]

At her HS graduation, Rory arranges her own FND deal with E&R to pay for Yale.

Later, right after Rory moves out of E&R's mansion (in a rude way, IMO), Christopher's grandfather dies and leaves him a shit load of money. He meets with Lorelai and Rory to say, "Hey! Want some? I can finally contribute money that I didn't earn! I'm such a hero!" And they respond, "Wow, you are a hero! And your timing couldn't be better, oh deus ex machina, because you can pay off my Yale tuition (both what's left and paying back E&R). Sweet!"

Not that I have any issues with how that played out.

ETA: Wait, skimming over transcripts, it seems Chris paid off what was left of Yale, not that he also paid back Emily and Richard. I always thought his deus ex machina money was the writers way of trying to make Rory look less ungrateful for blowing off her grandparents after she moved out. Because if she didn't owe them one penny, then she wasn't being a terrible person for freezing them out even though they helped and supported her when she asked for it since they were being overbearing about it.

Okay, all snarkiness aside, even though I also hate Emily's controlling and manipulative ways, even if Rory didn't owe them anything, she was being a brat to them. Now that I'm realizing she did still owe them for Yale up to that point, WTF? Are they still selling Shut up, Rory! t-shirts?

Edited June 26, 2015 by takalotti

[dustylil]

The whole who paid for Yale business has always puzzled me too. As takalotti  posted,  Rory went to Richard and Emily just before the high school graduation ceremony and borrowed money for Yale in an arrangement similar to Lorelai taking out the Chilton loan  - money to be repaid and interest was a continuation of the FNDs.

(Of course, why Emily and Richard - like many loving and dutiful grandparents before them - had not set up a college fund or made some comparable post-secondary arrangements for their only grandchild beforehand, be it for the Ivy Leagues or Murrays House of Learning  is a question for another thread).

Then suddenly in Season 6 the senior Gilmores were paying the  Yale freight until that prince among men Christopher took it over.

[junienmomo]

A couple of things on a season 3 episode:

 

When Jess was skipping school to work at Walmart, does it make any sense that Luke wouldn't have been notified by the school long before?  Schools don't just have someone miss multiple days and not check in with the guardian/parents.  Maybe in Stars Hollow they do?

 

In the episode where Lorelai's father gives her 75K dollars from the investment..... later on Lorelai pays her parents back for Chilton, and though we all know Emily is sensitive to the whole Friday dinner thing--her reaction to being paid back just was a bit over the top.  I think they knew that Lorelai may never be able to pay them, but that she did see it as a loan, and if she could she would pay them.

 

Re: Jess and the school - yes, the school didn't even remotely fulfill its obligations to contact his guardian until the drama of the scene could be artificially amplified. The school's just lucky that Luke wasn't already dating a lawyer (shudder). She could have set them straight and paid for Jess' college from the proceeds. (OK, I know she was contract law, I'm just fantasizing here.)

 

Emily never believed that Lorelai could earn enough to pay them back, and that was exactly the way she wanted it. Honestly, the way Lorelai managed money, Emily was correct, although not morally right. Emily was outraged every time Lorelai had a rational justification to stop FND, because Emily accepted them as her due. I imagine that somewhere in her brain, Emily really believed that once they started coming to FND, the girls would never want to stop.

 

Other miscellaneous Yale finance topics:

- good recognition of the deus ex machina, I hadn't thought of that, but it's very true. At least they had the good sense to have it be his grandfather's money and not the father who "hated" him.

- I suspect Emily and Richard had wealth enough that they didn't feel the need to save for college for either Lorelai way back when or Rory in GG days. How that jives with Richard gambling their fortune on his one-man (1.5?) business venture with Jason is beyond my fanwanking capabilities. Two men, an office and phone lines and hubris. A whole lotta hubris, maybe that was the expensive stuff.

- Emily and Richard only cared about the Yale money inasmuch as it served to keep them connected to the girls. Don't forget the $25k dorm room makeover and the plane purchase. 

[solotrek]

So, was the Gilmore (E&R) money from Richard being an insurance guy or was it from just being a Gilmore?

[junienmomo]

Seeing as Trix was wealthy enough to make major donations and casually decide to put a modest trust fund together for Rory, I presume that Richard inherited at least part of his father's fortune when he died. Of course, it could also be that Trix held the purse strings, and since she despised Emily, maybe they inherited nothing. I lean towards some inheritance, though, because I can't see Emily able to buy an airplane timeshare on a whim on an insurance executive's salary.

[Kohola3]

Of course, it could also be that Trix held the purse strings, and since she despised Emily, maybe they inherited nothing. I lean towards some inheritance, though, because I can't see Emily able to buy an airplane timeshare on a whim on an insurance executive's salary.

 

Or build a multi-million dollar Rory Gilmore planetarium or sanitarium or whatever the heck it was at Yale.  Although that whole idea was beyond ludicrous and thankfully never referred to after that awful episode

[dustylil]

I should clarify that I too did not think Emily and Richard would necessarily have to save money to put Rory through college. Just that I would have expected them to make some provision for the expense. Particularly so, once the Stars Hollow and Hartford Gilmores reconnected. At the very least, I would have thought they would have given Rory a cheque for the amount Lorelai repaid concerning the Chilton loan. But it was clear - to me at least - that until Rory approached them, they had not given the matter any thought.

 

I would imagine that Richard had  trust fund money during his adult life in addition to his salary as an insurance industry executive as well as  income from his business investments. Although given how precarious his financial position apparently was in Season 4, I wonder if some of his money went to support the ponies :)

Edited June 27, 2015 by dustylil

[txhorns79]

At the very least, I would have thought they would have given Rory a cheque for the amount Lorelai repaid concerning the Chilton loan. But it was clear - to me at least - that until Rory approached them, they had not given the matter any thought.

 

I can't even imagine how far Lorelai's head would have exploded off her shoulders if Emily and Richard had made any noises about paying for Rory's college prior to Rory going to them directly.  

[vanillamountain]

 

It was dramatic, for sure, but it was kind of crazy to see someone who was so laser focused on school suddenly have no interest in it, just because one person dared to criticize her. Maybe it would have been more true to character if she started partying too much with Logan and flunking her classes instead. Or just had a more gradual “breakdown” in general.

 

Yeah, the "Rory drops out of school" storyline never rang true for me. This was a girl who was introduced to us as an underdog - she showed up to Chilton a month late, got a D on her first paper, and then busted her behind to become the top of her class. I couldn't see her losing her drive and ambition just because one person told her she didn't have "it" (whatever "it" was.) It also bothered me that it never seemed to occur to her, or anyone around her, that Mitchum was not a villain, but just a crappy intern supervisor: if Rory wasn't doing something he wanted to see, he should have told her that from the get go, and been very concrete on what his expectations were.

 

I think the story line would have been more powerful if, as you said, we had seen Rory fail at other things (i.e. school and the Yale Daily News.) It would have also been nice if we'd seen Rory take the experience as an opportunity to soul-search and refine her career goals. Honestly, Rory was so shy and introverted that I never saw her as the next Christiane Amanpour - out on the ground doing hardcore investigative reporting. I always saw her as more of a film or media critic.

 

 

[junienmomo]

Rory's goal of being the next Christiane Amanpour, an on-camera TV journalist, didn't even jive with Mitchum Huntzberger's  newspaper business. She should have been studying broadcast journalism and tried to find jobs at TV stations and the big news broadcasters.

[yeswedo]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[takalotti]

Rory admires the adventures and amazing people that CA gets to experience/meet, and the heart and warmth she puts into her stories to share with the rest of the world. The fact that CA is in tv probably made it easier for Rory to notice her, but that's not what Rory wants for herself.

HEADMASTER: Why do you wish to be Christiane Amanpour?

RORY: Well, I don't wish to be her, exactly. I just want to do what she does.

HEADMASTER: Which is?

RORY: Travel, uh, see the world up close, report on what's really going on, be a part of something big.

HEADMASTER: And to be part of something big you have to be on TV? Why not lead the police on a high-speed chase? That's a quicker way to achieve this goal.

RORY: Being on TV has nothing to do with it. Maybe I'll be a journalist and write books or articles about what I see. I just want to be sure that I see. . .something.

RORY: I just think you are so inspiring. Your reporting is so bold and moving and fascinating and I know you've won nine Emmys, but I just don't think that's enough -- not that you care about that kind of thing, but I just want to say thank you.

Christiane Amanpour: Thank you. That's really nice of you. And your mother says that you've graduated Yale, editor of the Yale Daily News -- that's not bad.

RORY: Oh, thank you. I want to pursue a career in journalism.

Christiane Amanpour: That’s good, is it print you want? Television? CNN, maybe?

RORY: Oh, I'd love to work for a major daily.

[dustylil]

I happily stand corrected then in my understanding of the ambitions Rory had for herself. That said, one might have thought that an array of print journalists - both male and female - that she read or hoped to emulate would have been referenced in the show. Or did I miss that as well...

[JayInChicago]

Since I brought it up on the Unpop Opin thread, and Amen responded to me I was wondering...

 

Who thinks the series ends with Lorelai and Luke back together?

Too bad we don't have a poll function here /:

[junienmomo]

Jay, "together" is more or less a fact, due to her saying she wanted it, him saying he just likes to see her happy, and her finally understanding that throwing a town-wide party for her daughter means he likes her a little more than just restaurateur/customer.

 

What "together" means is wildly flexible. I don't see them as platonic fellow townies, but if they were:

• friends with benefits
• lovers who didn't live together
• cohabitating common-law spouses, or
• married trying or not trying for children (Lorelai very close to 40 would not necessarily be ready for another kid after throwing away a decade),

any of these were viable possibilities, and I don't see any of those possibilities leading to a marriage with another person for either character.

 

For Luke to move to what I think his end philosophical state was of "I just like to see you happy," which is almost an agape love, he had to go through a lot of thought in order to let go of the pain of the past. I extrapolate that to mean if it works out with Lorelai, great, but if not, he was still done with searching out new relationships. No bitterness or remorse.

[amensisterfriend]

Ha---Jay, you know my vote in our imaginary poll was that they were getting back together, however slowly and gradually that might be :) That's not necessarily what I wanted, but it's definitely how I interpreted the ending. I can totally see what you guys mean about there being room for ambiguity, though! 

 

Another imaginary poll: What would you have picked as an alternative ending point for the series? I just rewatched LMHYBRO and can't help but wonder how people would have felt if the series had ended there. This was the last pre-Long Lost Daughter episode, and L/L were relatively happy. Rory had just come to terms with the changes she wants to make in her life and was ready to get back on track, and those of us inclined to do so can pretend that she and Jess gradually made their way back to each other after a little time being single and figuring things out. If this had been the last episode, the Lorelai/Rory reconciliation we see in the next episode could have been moved to this one :) 

 

I happen to like a lot of S7, but it just occurred to me that given what we now know transpires some might have been more satisfied with the series ending around LMHYBRO! 

Edited July 12, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[junienmomo]

I happen to like a lot of S7, but it just occurred to me that given what we now know transpires some might have been more satisfied with the series ending around LMHYBRO! 

 

Man o man, I could buy into that! All Balalaikas would need is Rory flying into her mother's arms and the closing credits could be Lorelai's "we can get married now" line.

In my fantasy world, that series end would be followed by a movie or mini series a year later with Emily reconciliation, Yale graduation and L/L marriage. 

[yeswedo]

Who thinks the series ends with Lorelai and Luke back together?

Too bad we don't have a poll function here /:

 

We do! I thought all posters have the ability to create a poll. If not send me a PM with the poll question and responses and I'll take care of it.

[Crs97]

The whole thing with Mitchum was bothersome because he was painted as a villain, and I remember thinking he was right. As I recall, he was giving her opportunities to participate and she was incredibly passive during that internship. When she saw Christiane Amanpour, her inclination was not to take the opportunity to speak to her. When she did, only because Lorelai made her, she sounded like a tongue-tied little girl. I can't imagine her hustling for a story; she just seemed to sit back and wait for one to fall in her lap. I totally understood why Mitchum told her she didn't have "it." You can't learn gumption.

[junienmomo]

I totally understood why Mitchum told her she didn't have "it." You can't learn gumption.

Great insight to Mitchum, CRS. Beyond You Jump, I Jump, Rory didn't show investigative skills.

That doesn't mean she can't learn them, though. Gumption can't be created, but it can be developed and encouraged. Rory did have some, stealing cornstarch, and talking back to her grandparents and more examples. It simply wasn't a developed skill under Lorelai's parenting. Lorelai needed gumption to create her own life, but it wasn't anything she particularly cared about her daughter having.

[txhorns79]

When she saw Christiane Amanpour, her inclination was not to take the opportunity to speak to her. When she did, only because Lorelai made her, she sounded like a tongue-tied little girl.

 

I'll defend Rory a little bit, and say she wasn't really dressed appropriately to speak with her, and I would probably be somewhat reticent about going up to speak to someone like that, if only because I wouldn't want to disturb them or be one of those gushing fan-types. 

[takalotti]

I agree that Mitchum was no villain. I think the picture Lorelai painted of a mastermind scheming to knock Rory for a loop was incorrect.

And I agree that Rory was not a go-getter during her internship. No, she didn't have to just run around the city reporting on whatever she wanted and hope her stories got published, but she could have asked more "Can I do X?" questions to show what she had to offer and test boundaries.

However, I also think Mitchum shares the blame in how her internship went. It's a supervisor's job to clearly communicate what is expected of an employee (and say something BEFORE a review if those expectations aren't being met to give them an opportunity to fix it). You don't just give them a badge, disappear to another location, then come back and say, "You didn't do what I wanted." At the very least, you assign someone else to lay out the expectations and keep an eye on how they are met.

It seemed to me that Rory was under the impression that she was just being given an opportunity to see the inner workings of a real paper. Basically an observer position for a temporary period (not long enough to assume you'd have a lasting impact on the paper). That is not how I'd expect her to behave at her first real, long term job.

Would it have been super impressive if she had made suggestions in meetings, or brought articles in to see if they might be printed? Yes, absolutely. But I don't think she was wrong for not doing so in the circumstances, and I don't think it necessarily indicates that she doesn't have *it*. (What I do think shows she might not have it is that she just rolled over after his comment.)

FWIW, I don't expect Rory will ever be an in-your-face type of journalist. But I could see her hanging back from the crowd of shouting, microphone-waving reporters outside the jailhouse, and waving to the politician-mid-scandal from across the street (even though she can't see him/her through the tinted windows of the towncar) because she gave her card to the driver saying, "Please just point me out and let him/her know I'm interested in his/her side of the story."

[solotrek]

I wasn't entirely sure of the terms of her internship and from what I saw from the show, neither did Rory. However, Mitchum clearly had a point if Rory's reaction to his speech was to quit school, quit her dream, and shrivel into a ball of misery alienating the one person who was always there for her. 

 

I thought Rory showed a little spunk (I think it's similar to gumption) when getting the job at the Stanford Eagle Gazette. Of course the editor could have just called security and hauled her ass out, but regardless she stayed until she got the job.

 

Rory didn't show investigative skills.

 

Though journalists have to have some investigative skills, it never really seemed she was going to be an investigative reporter. She was very thorough with her research for each article, as evident by the binders full of information for one story.  And if someone gave her insider information for something big, she'd probably go full on investigator mode for the story to write her article. However, investigative reporter was not her end goal. There's a difference there. She was mainly an editorial writer.

 

I'll defend Rory a little bit, and say she wasn't really dressed appropriately to speak with her,

 

Not only that, didn't Lorelai just pull her out of bed and drag her there? The morning breath, the eye gunk, pajamas, and depending on when she showers the griminess of it all - I wouldn't speak to my friends looking like that let alone my celebrity idol.

[Guest]

I think Rory didn't have a good internship experience in part because she wasn't cut out for what she wanted to do (she was too passive) and in part because Mitchum didn't have an intern program. I never got the impression that he was looking for an intern and routinely used them.  He felt bad (genuinely, I believe) and as a result, offered her an internship. However, he didn't set clear parameters of what he was looking for, what she was supposed to do, and how she would be evaluated.

[JayInChicago]

yeah. the whole intern subplot--i think the last time i rewatched i just skipped it. i can't tell if it's just poorly written or if M Huntz' idea of an "internship" is to throw someone into cubicle and have them figure it out. I do think Mitchum had some points about Rory, but she also wasn't the type of person who would use the Huntzb name to climb the journalism ladder either, so...Logan is probably right. His father is an ass.

[Eeksquire]

I think he can be both an ass and not a villain at the same time.  The family, including Shira and the grandfather, were an absolute horror.  I think in the beginning Mitchum really did intend to do something kind to make up for the disastrous dinner, but he really can't carry that sort of thing off for very long and just relapsed into being himself, i.e., an ass - the kind of guy who expects his son to blindly follow the career path his father has set out for him.

 

That said (though I hate to defend Mitchum in any way), after Logan's terrible business deal, he was kind of in the right to be mad that Logan just ignored the whole thing and reverted to Colin and Finn shenanigans.

[dustylil]

Certainly Shira and the grandfather were rude and tactless to Rory. Although  I thought Shira was on point regarding Rory not having been raised to that style of life.  But it did remind me of how the senior Gilmores treated and viewed Dean and Luke. It was unfortunate that after her initial shock,  someone as bright as Rory did not recognize the similarities. Of course, up until that point hearing a discouraging word had not played much part in her life :)

 

I did not dislike Logan but I must say I had little sympathy for his poor little rich boy routine and his whining about the cruelty of his father, demanding he live up to family expectations in exchange for an astonishingly luxurious lifestyle. He was in his early twenties when we met him. I never could quite figure out what precisely was stopping him from going out into the world, finding work and supporting himself - if life as an adult Huntzberger was expected to be so unbearable.

[amensisterfriend]

I had trouble following what the heck Logan was and wasn't doing professionally in S7, but wasn't he initially out from under his father's wing? Only to blow all that money and live down to his father's worst expectations of him, responding by fleeing home for yet another booze-fest with Colin and Finn? While Rory for the umpteenth time thought of leaving him but decided to stay anyway? :)  

[solotrek]

I had trouble following what the heck Logan was and wasn't doing professionally in S7, but wasn't he initially out from under his father's wing?

 

He was still working with his father up until the copyright lawsuit. That was a deal he made, while working under his father, behind his father's back (Mitchum didn't think the deal was a good idea and rejected it). I'm not entirely sure what the Huntzberger company or corporation does though. I'm thinking a Rupert Murdoch type thing where they invest in news organizations ala TV, print, radio, internet. But I'm not entirely sure how Logan's deal with the facebook/linkdin type company fits in.

[Aloeonatable]

 

I did not dislike Logan but I must say I had little sympathy for his poor little rich boy routine and his whining about the cruelty of his father, demanding he live up to family expectations in exchange for an astonishingly luxurious lifestyle. He was in his early twenties when we met him. I never could quite figure out what precisely was stopping him from going out into the world, finding work and supporting himself - if life as an adult Huntzberger was expected to be so unbearable.

 

I think this character flaw in Logan was the primary reason I couldn't like him. 

[amensisterfriend]

...that and the smirks :) Seriously, I go back and forth a ton on Logan and Logan/Rory. At times I do like them, but a main stumbling block for me is that the smirky smugness makes even many of his sincere moments seem smarmy to me. And he's not among the (admittedly few!) actors whom AB seems genuinely comfortable around, which means that I have trouble buying that Rory is fully 'herself' around Logan even when we're probably supposed to think she is! 

 

As a more general question, which characters/actors do you guys think AB had the best chemistry with? I don't mean romantic chemistry---I just the mean the characters/actors that brought out Alexis' best acting and/or Rory's most lovable sides :) 

[Taryn74]

As a more general question, which characters/actors do you guys think AB had the best chemistry with? I don't mean romantic chemistry---I just the mean the characters/actors that brought out Alexis' best acting and/or Rory's most lovable sides :) 

 

I'd have to say most all of the adults, with the exception of perhaps Taylor and Mrs. Kim.  Well, and her paternal grandparents LOL but I hardly count them.  I just love how comfortable she was around all of the adults.

[dustylil]

Perhaps not Headmaster Charleston, either :) I kinda liked how he was generally immune to her charm - the Chilton graduation being one of the few exceptions.