S02.E04: eps2.2_init1.asec

[formerlyfreedom]

Elliot befriends Ray, hoping he can finally delete Mr. Robot; Dom makes a discovery; Darlene considers whether the FBI or Dark Army are the bigger threat.

 

[benteen]

Excellent episode, the best of the season so far.  I especially enjoyed the opening flashback.

[justmehere]

Agreed. That's what I've been waiting for.

--The flashback, watching the birth of the plan and the psychosis was unsettling (although I guess the latter began with his destruction of the server room at his previous job).

With the knock on the door at the start, I thought we were back at the end of S1, only to be back before the beginning. Unless the end of last season wasn't chronological and was actually this flashback. --I appreciate that we're not told when the flashbacks take place, but we can figure it out soon enough.

--Angela's story gets more intriguing. She is sharp.

--Surprised by how much Elliot told Krista. I do wonder if she's able to handle his level of illness. I forget; is she a psychiatrist, psychologist...?

--Nice to see White Rose again.

--Really want to know where Wellick is and what happened that night (especially with the discovery of the bullet casing at the arcade). If Elliot and Mr. Robot are now friends, or frenemies at least, maybe we're close to getting those answers.

--Ray is certainly a loaded gun.

--Still confused about a lot, and since I don't know what I don't know, I'm not sure what to ask. Level of FBI involvement and when, Romero, White Rose, Dark Army, Price... I'm along for the ride and will definitely have to re-watch as a whole at the end of the season.

[DrSpaceman73]

My biggest issue is I just don't like the 90 minute episodes.  Its a lot to take in, pay attention to and remember week to week. 

 

I did like the flashback. 

The draw/no winner on the chess game reminded me of Wargames.  Except they did it with tic-tac-toe. 

[benteen]

Yes, if I had one problem it's with the runtime.  I don't think they need to be 90 minutes long and that this season could benefit from tightening up the editing.  I like it better when it's an hour plus an overrun.

That was a great flashback in the beginning and I like seeing this birth of fscoiety stuff.  I also loved the music during that bit.  I think it was supposed to be an homage to that 80s movie they were watching but the score felt very Star Wars to me.

Edited July 28, 2016 by benteen

[SailorGirl]

I really enjoyed this episode as well -- I think we are definitely going to get a Breaking Bad type of season -- slower episodes that lay the groundwork for future plot developments followed by informative and often funny episodes that really flesh out the story. The past two weeks certainly seem to indicate so, anyway! 

I also think its time to start a Mr. Robot quotes thread -- did anybody catch this when Ray and Eliot were playing chess?

Ray: Son, do you know what the definition of insanity is?
Eliot (in his head): He obviously doesn't know me. 

I missed the next couple of lines of dialogue because I got such a giggle out of that -- It was the way Rami delivered the line -- it was so casual and off-handed . . . like yeah, I'm crazy, the sky is blue, birds fly . . . etc. . . 
 

Edited July 28, 2016 by SailorGirl

[Primetimer]

WarGames, Green Day, and other allusions from a water-treading fourth episode.

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[DrSpaceman73]

Quote

Ray: Son, do you know what the definition of insanity is?
Eliot (in his head): He obviously doesn't know me. 

This was my favorite line as well. 

[Avaleigh]

I really enjoyed this episode even if I cam out of it with loads of questions as usual. I am so intrigued by the connection between Philip and White Rose. It might be the thing that's interesting me most at present aside from enjoying where Angela and Darlene are. 

One line from Darlene's that I was hoping that somebody caught was when she's telling Elliot that she needs him. She says something that I couldn't understand and then she says 'I wouldn't say that unless it was important.' 

The music when Elliot was putting the mask on reminded me of a cross between the scores of Vertigo and Star Wars. 

I wonder what happened in between the time of the opening scene and the pilot episode. In the pilot Elliot is acting like he doesn't remember Darlene so what exactly happened there?

Why does Philip tell Angela that it's all in her head? Why would he be impressed with that? 

Why doesn't Darlene acknowledge or talk to their mother if Elliot is supposed to be there? 

How much could the parking attendant know and why would he bother to lie when he was questioned in the first place? This guy is an idiot for making it clear to Joanna that he'll crack under pressure. 

Why is the Wellick's driver so damned loyal? What is he getting out of this.

The chess game went on way too long for my test. I can't believe Elliot needed to go through that exercise to get it. 

Small details I liked:

Tyrell's Pete Campbell-ish/Carlton Banks-like country club sweater in Elliot's fantasy sequence. 

Philip having a chauffeur driven Maybach. 

The Grace Gummer character pointing out how stupid they are for not finding the arcade until now. 

[meep.meep]

from the recap/story

"Stop transposing abstractions and dialectics onto hackneyed images that comment on what's happening and have something happen."

This times 1000.  He's turning Mr. Robot into the second season of Les Revenant - nothing happens, you can't understand what anyone is saying because you literally can't hear what anyone is saying, and most of it is mental masturbation.

But, Rami Malek's hair sticking up behind the mask was really funny.

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I wonder what happened in between the time of the opening scene and the pilot episode. In the pilot Elliot is acting like he doesn't remember Darlene so what exactly happened there?

I can only speculate that from the point that putting on the mask brings out Mr. Robot, Elliot suppresses every aspect of his life that would remind him that Mr. Robot is his dead dad and not a cyber-anarchist he met on the subway. Since Angela is never around when Mr. Robot is, I guess that's why he can remember their shared childhood. But, because Darlene is part of fsociety, he cannot let himself remember that she's his sister.

[Rinaldo]

11 hours ago, benteen said:

That was a great flashback in the beginning and I like seeing this birth of fscoiety stuff.  I also loved the music during that bit.  I think it was supposed to be an homage to that 80s movie they were watching but the score felt very Star Wars to me.

That music was Holst's The Planets -- mostly the last movement (Uranus) for the ethereal flutes-and-strings (and wordless choir) stuff, overlaid at one point with a few big loud chords from Neptune.

[justmehere]

6 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

One line from Darlene's that I was hoping that somebody caught was when she's telling Elliot that she needs him. She says something that I couldn't understand and then she says 'I wouldn't say that unless it was important.' 

Why does Philip tell Angela that it's all in her head? Why would he be impressed with that? 

Why doesn't Darlene acknowledge or talk to their mother if Elliot is supposed to be there? 

Darlene's comment was something she mentioned later, too, saying it came from when Elliot first taught her to code: "Init 1" (per closed captioning), a code between them to indicate a genuine need. She wouldn't invoke it unless she really needed to.

I think Phillip was impressed with Angela's determination and analytical skill, even if she's on the wrong track about what he wants from her -- or so he says. 

Yeah, Darlene not acknowledging their mother makes it a little suspicious, but it could mean a couple of things. Either she really has no relationship with her mother and they basically ignore each other, or the location is a mental construct. We didn't see Darlene arrive; she could have said a cursory hello and then each went about their own business. If it is a construct, Elliot has an awful lot of freedom to go out and about (ex: not having computer access there but going to Ray's to use his), which doesn't seem likely in a hospital situation, even on a volunteer basis.

[xaxat]

Dude, Joanna Wellick professed her love to you?!?

Better run like hell. Because she's going to ask for someone's head on a platter (literally) as proof of your devotion.

Elliot's fish made the banquet, but not Flipper. That made me sad.

I really liked this episode. 

[Cardie]

4 hours ago, justmehere said:

If it is a construct, Elliot has an awful lot of freedom to go out and about (ex: not having computer access there but going to Ray's to use his), which doesn't seem likely in a hospital situation, even on a volunteer basis.

But if it's a construct, he may in fact not ever be leaving the hospital. We see a place to eat, a basketball court, a place for group discussions, a wooded area. These may well be the cafeteria, exercise area, meeting room, hospital grounds. Ray would have to be a staff member for the institutional hypothesis to work. Elliot could be using a computer in his office, not really going to Ray's house. If Krista isn't coming in, I'm sure the hospital would transport him to his psychiatrist's office.

[AliShibaz]

19 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

My biggest issue is I just don't like the 90 minute episodes.  Its a lot to take in, pay attention to and remember week to week. 

 

I did like the flashback. 

The draw/no winner on the chess game reminded me of Wargames.  Except they did it with tic-tac-toe. 

You're not alone. I have to watch each episode several times and I don't just mean 2 or 3 times. Many more times than that.

And even after watching each episode that many times, there is still so much I don't understand.

My biggest confusion is the relationship between E and his father. Seems to me the most natural explanation is that E feels he was abused by his father and now his father seems to appear to him. Although the appearance of his father is really just a symptom of his mental illness. But why didn't he recognize the Mr. Robot character as being his father? He was old enough to remember what his father looked like. So, maybe it's a limitation of the TV medium that his father cannot appear to him in the same way as he appears to the audience.

I mean when we look at the Christian Slater character, we recognize him as Elliot's father and the name Mr. Robot was used by his father to name his computer store back in 1991. So, perhaps it will be explained one day that although we see Elliot's father appear as Christian Slater, E sees something very different when he looks at that character. He doesn't see that the character looks like his father. It's impossible for TV to show the same character in two different ways. It appears as Christian Slater. But although that is what we see when we see that character, perhaps E sees something very different and that could explain a part of this mystery.

But I feel that I'm just clutching at straws here when I try to understand this mystery. I would really appreciate any help that anyone else could offer to explain this.

[AliShibaz]

6 hours ago, xaxat said:

Dude, Joanna Wellick professed her love to you?!?

Better run like hell. Because she's going to ask for someone's head on a platter (literally) as proof of your devotion.

Elliot's fish made the banquet, but not Flipper. That made me sad.

I really liked this episode. 

There is one thing that really angered me. That was when that asshole who played Krista met her and kept crying that, "He stole my dog. He stole my dog."

He didn't steal your dog. He rescued your dog from your abuse and took her into his care which was a million times more humane than your care. You are a low life, lying, cheating, scumbag. You just knew that if you refused to give the dog to him, E would make certain facts about your behavior widely known and your life would become extremely unhappy extremely quickly. It was much easier for you to give him your dog. But it was also a very cowardly thing to do - despite the fact that you never even liked Flipper. You abused her and may very well have physically hurt her. You yanked on her leash so hard that you lifted her whole body up in the air suspended by the collar around her neck.

You don't deserve to own a dog and in a perfect world, you would never be allowed to own one. Also, in a perfect world, someone might well cut off the hand you used to yank on her leash. I get very angry when I see people abusing dogs and I often imagine doing really harmful things to them. I would really love to see that creep get some justice. Much like the justice that Ramsay Bolton got in GoT.

Edited July 29, 2016 by AliShibaz

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

My biggest confusion is the relationship between E and his father. Seems to me the most natural explanation is that E feels he was abused by his father and now his father seems to appear to him. Although the appearance of his father is really just a symptom of his mental illness. But why didn't he recognize the Mr. Robot character as being his father? He was old enough to remember what his father looked like. So, maybe it's a limitation of the TV medium that his father cannot appear to him in the same way as he appears to the audience.

I agree that Elliot felt abused by his father, and because of that, blocked out everything relating to his past out, blocked everything that he feels is connected to his past, out.  That was why he didn't realize Darlene was his sister. 

Mr. Robot is part of Elliot, but sometimes Mr. Robot takes complete control of Elliot, those three days when the hack happened.  Elliot doesn't know what happened.  What I got out of this episode was that neither Elliot nor Mr. Robot can survive without the other, which was why neither could beat the other in chess.

What's interesting about this show is trying to figure out what's real and what isn't.  I don't think Elliot's friend, the black guy he has meals with, is real, no one else seems to see him but Elliot. 

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

What's interesting about this show is trying to figure out what's real and what isn't.  I don't think Elliot's friend, the black guy he has meals with, is real, no one else seems to see him but Elliot. 

I understand that we all have our own personal ways of watching this (or any) show, and I'm speaking only for myself (and not criticizing anyone else) when I say that this is not interesting for me. I prefer to watch the narrative (once only), take everything as it comes, enjoy the characters and dialogue and situations and atmosphere (assuming that I do, which is the case so far), be pleasantly bewildered by moments that don't quite add up yet, and not try to get ahead of it. I figure that it'll reveal its secrets to me when it wants to, and then I'll have the pleasure of being surprised, or having my assumptions contradicted.

[artielange84]

6 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

You're not alone. I have to watch each episode several times and I don't just mean 2 or 3 times. Many more times than that.

And even after watching each episode that many times, there is still so much I don't understand.

My biggest confusion is the relationship between E and his father. Seems to me the most natural explanation is that E feels he was abused by his father and now his father seems to appear to him. Although the appearance of his father is really just a symptom of his mental illness. But why didn't he recognize the Mr. Robot character as being his father? He was old enough to remember what his father looked like. So, maybe it's a limitation of the TV medium that his father cannot appear to him in the same way as he appears to the audience.

I mean when we look at the Christian Slater character, we recognize him as Elliot's father and the name Mr. Robot was used by his father to name his computer store back in 1991. So, perhaps it will be explained one day that although we see Elliot's father appear as Christian Slater, E sees something very different when he looks at that character. He doesn't see that the character looks like his father. It's impossible for TV to show the same character in two different ways. It appears as Christian Slater. But although that is what we see when we see that character, perhaps E sees something very different and that could explain a part of this mystery.

But I feel that I'm just clutching at straws here when I try to understand this mystery. I would really appreciate any help that anyone else could offer to explain this.

During the flashback scene last season at the Mr Robot shop, it didn't seem like Elliot's father was very abusive. During the flashback scene at the start of this episode, Darlene mentions not seeing their mother since she's always bad mouthing their father which doesn't really provoke a reaction from Elliot (the guy is like wallpaper most of the time but I figure that if he or Darlene felt abused by their father, we would have known by now, correct me if we have been shown this but I don't think we have)

IIRC, Elliot does mention quite literally seeing "his dead father" to Krista (what a scene btw, I felt uneasy watching it, the way Krista attempts to set him straight and tells Elliot (and us) that Mr Robot was as much a part of him as anything else. that was moving, incredibly deep, for me anyway). It could actually be visions of his father that he's seeing, or simply visions he interprets as being his father, or he doesn't see anything at all and simply hears voices. 

[gibasi]

44 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

I understand that we all have our own personal ways of watching this (or any) show, and I'm speaking only for myself (and not criticizing anyone else) when I say that this is not interesting for me. I prefer to watch the narrative (once only), take everything as it comes, enjoy the characters and dialogue and situations and atmosphere (assuming that I do, which is the case so far), be pleasantly bewildered by moments that don't quite add up yet, and not try to get ahead of it. I figure that it'll reveal its secrets to me when it wants to, and then I'll have the pleasure of being surprised, or having my assumptions contradicted.

 

I am the same way Rinaldo!  Watching it twice seems like work to me or worse-homework. And although I enjoyed last season I am not enjoying this season as much.  I literally kept nodding off during this episode and I don't see the need for a 90 minute episode.  I think editing and a narrower focus would help.  I think maybe the show is a little too in love with itself right now.

[AliShibaz]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I agree that Elliot felt abused by his father, and because of that, blocked out everything relating to his past out, blocked everything that he feels is connected to his past, out.  That was why he didn't realize Darlene was his sister. 

Mr. Robot is part of Elliot, but sometimes Mr. Robot takes complete control of Elliot, those three days when the hack happened.  Elliot doesn't know what happened.  What I got out of this episode was that neither Elliot nor Mr. Robot can survive without the other, which was why neither could beat the other in chess.

What's interesting about this show is trying to figure out what's real and what isn't.  I don't think Elliot's friend, the black guy he has meals with, is real, no one else seems to see him but Elliot. 

 

Oh my! IMHO, you have made  some excellent observations here. I am deeply agog! I'm not joking. I just couldn't find a word better than "agog".

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, gibasi said:

I am the same way Rinaldo!  Watching it twice seems like work to me or worse-homework. And although I enjoyed last season I am not enjoying this season as much.  I literally kept nodding off during this episode and I don't see the need for a 90 minute episode.  I think editing and a narrower focus would help.  I think maybe the show is a little too in love with itself right now.

I think the problem is now that we know Mr. Robot is in Elliot's head, it makes me wonder what else is in his head and is this reality or a hallucination? 

I wonder what is the average age of viewers vs. the average age of us on this particular board.  Do younger people get this easier than older people?  I wonder.

[AliShibaz]

23 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think the problem is now that we know Mr. Robot is in Elliot's head, it makes me wonder what else is in his head and is this reality or a hallucination? 

I wonder what is the average age of viewers vs. the average age of us on this particular board.  Do younger people get this easier than older people?  I wonder.

I am in my 60s. But I still feel like I was 18. I know many people my age whose physical and mental functions seem to have slowed down considerably. But I feel like I'm just as sharp as I was when I was a student. What is the significance of this to your post?

Well, I have worked all my life with computers. My abilities are nowhere close to those of Elliot or his "friends" in fSociety. But I do work with some great tools and I have pulled off a few exploits on the Internet. But, nowhere near the capabilities of real hackers.

I tell you this as background so you can judge the merit of my opinions in this matter. IMHO, the main criteria required for people to "get this hacking stuff" is not physical age. It is the experience that people have had and their natural inclination to understanding logical thinking and solving puzzles. I would guess the vast majority of people who use the Internet have no idea how to even begin to go about trying to hack into someone else's web site or other facility. But the  people who have the requisite experience (mainly those who understand how to use Linux and how to program and have studied the way that communications work on the Internet). They are the people who are much more likely to understand the technical goings of in this show. Most importantly, they are the people who have the aptitude for this kind of stuff.

Did you watch Episode 00 of Season Two? It was quite good and if you look at the people who were interviewed - especially the one fellow who said he is responsible for putting together most of the screen shots that are shown when we see people trying to hack into various sites. That person is pretty much an expert on Internet security for corporations. His "job" is basically to help protect corporations and government agencies. To protect them from unauthorized "evil doers" (like Elliot) who use their skills to break into their sites and either steal or change information or do some much more serious crimes.

Some people just seem to have an aptitude for learning to program and understanding how to solve puzzles.  They are the people to whom "hacking" comes easily.  People who have a high aptitude for understanding how to program computers are better at it than many people who have attended university and studied for years. IMHO, it has very little to do with physical age. With the proper aptitude, people can gain the experience very quickly and learn how to hack and are much better at it than people are who do not have that aptitude - regardless of how much they have studied. I've met several people that you would never guess can do this stuff. But they just have a great aptitude for it and they can do all kinds of amazing stuff.

A great example is Mark Zuckerberg. According to Wikipedia, he was only 20 years old when he created Facebook. But he had an extremely high aptitude for computers and the Internet and everything just seemed to come naturally to him. A very small percentage of the population are gifted in that way.  The real mystery (to me anyway) is why almost all of them live in The Ukraine or North Korea.  (j/k).

Edited July 30, 2016 by AliShibaz

[Cardie]

I don't think Neurochick was referring (solely) to younger people getting hacking, more to whether they found the elliptical, ambiguous story-telling as a whole easier to comprehend. I'm in my 60s also and think I understand the show pretty well--granted I was an English teacher and had to know how to interpret narratives to do my job--even though my computer competence is dismal. We just have to be patient. This is a show that purposely withholds information; it's only if we are still perplexed when it finally reveals that information that we can dub Mr. Robot too hard to comprehend. Except for Tyrell's exact involvement in the big hack, and the nature of the connection between Price and White Rose, S1 made perfect sense by the end. Although I'm getting restless with this season, I still trust that it will make everything clear by season's end, except for those questions Esmail wishes to carry over to S3. 

[AliShibaz]

Cardie,

I think your post is quite valid - very interesting as well.

You must be correct about needing to understand the technical issues involved in hacking being a prerequisite to enjoy this show. If people had to understand the details of how hacking worked in order to enjoy this show, the ratings would be near zero. So, it seems highly likely that the enjoyment of this show cannot require much of an understanding of the technical aspects of hacking.

I suppose hacking can be viewed in much the same way as if someone broke into your home while you were out and stole some of your things and recorded some of your information and then used that information to do all manner of evil things to you (i.e. Identity Theft) - like emptying your bank accounts or blackmailing you on account of some of your secrets.

Good post!

Edited July 29, 2016 by AliShibaz

[islandgal140]

8 hours ago, Neurochick said:

What's interesting about this show is trying to figure out what's real and what isn't.  I don't think Elliot's friend, the black guy he has meals with, is real, no one else seems to see him but Elliot. 

I thought this at first but I do seem to remember Ray interacting with Leon at the basketball court and trying to calm the situation when Leon and the player were acting up whent Leon wouldn't give back the ball. 

Speaking of Leon, I loved the scene between him and Leon at the diner when they were discussing the chessboard and Elliot fighting for his existence. Leon can get deep. LOL!

I tend to not think his mother is real because no one interacts with her besides Elliot. 

Last 2 episodes have been stellar but stagnant. Nothing has really happened so I am glad that Elliot is getting back in the mix. 

Yes, I do groan a little when I see that all the episodes seem to be an 90 minutes long (I can not watch it the night of airing because of that and end of watching a day or so later which bugs) but it flies by so fast that I don't even realize. 

I am really wondering about White Rose's angle in this. She has helped f society with the hack but yet she also seems to be in cahoots with Phillip. 

Personal confession: I have an irrational dislike for Grace Gummer. 

[AliShibaz]

18 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

<snip>Personal confession: I have an irrational dislike for Grace Gummer. <snip>

 

That's very interesting because her character seriously intrigues me.  For those who are interested but may not know, Grace plays the FBI agent "Dominique Pierro". She also had a part in the film "The Homesman" with Tommy Lee Jones.

I am intrigued by her character because I think her mind operates in a way that is very similar to Elliot's.  In fact, I'm hoping they develop some kind of relationship by the end of this season. Maybe even friends (in a way that doesn't involve her arresting him). Remember how she asked about the PC the technicians were trying to examine and then ... POOF!!!

Just a few seconds after she asks, they touch one of the ports and the PC erupts in flames. Putting aside the question of whether or not that is even possible, (seems very unlikely to me that is a good way to protect one's private data),  I would think that scene contains a clue and predicts an ongoing future conflict or contest between Elliot and D - maybe even running for the rest of this season? I know. I know.  It's highly unlikely - really, just a shot in the dark. But it gets me excited to think that may actually happen.

It's as if she is a natural "match" for Elliot. One out of a million people whose mind is sufficiently knowledgeable and clever enough to give Elliot a run for his money. Put that together with the scene where she is masturbating in bed and I get the feeling that signals the duo may soon be sharing some sexual trysts. I would really enjoy that - especially if they start discussing hacking and "how to catch a hacker".  That would make the story very interesting. I would expect many people would come to the show if that happened. Besides, I'm sure it would be very interesting to see just how those two would manifest their sexual desires. Would it be some mundane "missionary position" stuff? Or would they go for some exciting S&M or B&D? I would hope the show runner would realize people would expect some fast and furious sex entertainment from these two characters. Just like Pavlov's Pooch, I find my mouth is watering at the prospect of just what may happen.

Did you ever see the film "The Thomas Crown Affair"? (the one from 1968 with Steve McQueen).  It wasn't all that great a movie but the contest between McQueen and Faye Dunaway was great fun and I'd really enjoy seeing something similar between Elliot & D.

P.S. I know this may be a little off topic, but I am seriously unhappy to have to accept that Shayla is gone from the show now. I really liked her and thought it was important for Elliot to have at least one potential gf. Admittedly, Shayla was not very good for Elliot (being  a drug dealer and all). But it seemed to me that the two of them were on track to have some nice romatic escapades. How exciting it would be to have a hot girl living across the hall from my apartment.

Edited July 30, 2016 by AliShibaz

[SailorGirl]

A little help please -- I've seen some people referring to Eliot as "E" but that gets confusing given "E Corp" or Evil Corp. For clarity, can we please use Eliot's full name rather than "E" when referring to him and keep "E" for E Corp or Evil Corp? Eliot really isn't a long word to type. 

Thanks. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by SailorGirl

[possibilities]

I am 50 years old. I have no experience with hacking. What I think makes this show comprehensible to me is that I've had close involvement with people who were multiple, and people who were schizophrenic. I loved Krista saying that annihilation is not the answer. The most effective way for multiples to function is via internal co-operation. And functional schizophrenics also fare better if they try to work with rather than against the system. As a non-multiple, non-schizophrenic, relating to this tv show as well as to the people I've known who shared some of it's issues, I have found it's also best to not get overly caught up in what is real and just deal with what is important or practical in the situation. For me, I don't need to police the perceptions of Elliot, to parse whether they are real from someone else's point of view. First of all, it's fiction, so none of it is real and it doesn't matter on that level. But also, even in real life, a lot of the time for the situation at hand, it doesn't matter so much whether something someone is perceiving matches what other people are perceiving; what matters is how they are functioning and whether it's working out or dangerous in some way. I mean, you could hear voices all day long and as long as they don't cause you or anyone else any actual harm, who cares? Policing thoughts rather than assessing functionality is where I think a lot of "therapy" goes wrong.

I enjoy the show because it puts me into Elliot's point of view, and gives me an experience other than my own. I am curious about how it will play out, whether some of it will prove true or false, but more than that, I'm just giving myself over to taking the ride he's on, which feels dangerous and exhilarating and confusing and like living a puzzle-- as he goes through his ups and downs, and tries to work out what is going on for himself, and what he wants (looooooved the idea that he needed to figure out WHY he wanted to fight, not just WHETHER to do it). Just because his character does not share all of my perceptions (and the way they tell it, the show does not validate the viewer's viewpoint the way many do-- we don't get to be the objective observer in the know while the characters are confused-- everyone is confused here, including us)-- that does not make him less emotionally vibrant and interesting to me.

I agree the plot is hardly moving, but I think this show's genius turns more on empathy than information.

I also do think that the "facts" and the plot will become more clear by the end of the season. Last season they surprised us by making the story seem linear and then unraveling parts of it. This time they are starting from the unraveled place and knitting it back together.

I also like that Krista seems scared sometimes. She seems to understand what is happening, and what needs to happen to deal with it, but to also realize how intense and unpredictable and not entirely controllable the process is-- that she isn't shown as some dispassionate sage pleases me-- I think it's more true to what it's like to engage and observe this process, and the robotic shrink who never feels anything and considers everything they hear to be as dry as old paint is just a lot of BS-- or should be.

I also liked getting answers to how this all started. It made perfect sense to me, as soon as they showed us. Very simple. Yet not what I'd imagined, at all.

[AliShibaz]

1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

A little help please -- I've seen some people referring to Eliot as "E" but that gets confusing given "E Corp" or Evil Corp. For clarity, can we please use Eliot's full name rather than "E" when referring to him and keep "E" for E Corp or Evil Corp? Eliot really isn't a long word to type. 

Thanks. 

OK. Sorry. I didn't see your request before making my second post. From now on I will refer to Elliot by using his full name. Thank you for making your desire known in a nice courteous manner. I'm happy to oblige you.

P.S. I will spell his name correctly unless you have some reason for preferring "Eliot"?

Edited July 30, 2016 by AliShibaz

[tankgirl73]

On 2016-07-28 at 9:21 PM, Rinaldo said:

That music was Holst's The Planets -- mostly the last movement (Uranus) for the ethereal flutes-and-strings (and wordless choir) stuff, overlaid at one point with a few big loud chords from Neptune.

 

Actually, the big chords are from Mars. And the reason that it sounded like Star Wars is that John Williams liberally borrowed from The Planets when writing his score for Star Wars. :)

Speaking of music, I loved the gentle instrumental version of "Basket Case" during the fantasy sequence.

I hadn't been considering the idea that all the locations are constructs in Elliott's head. The repetition and the limited number of locations are certainly good evidence for that. And the fact that we rarely -- almost never -- see Elliott actually interact with anyone else other than those few limited people. For instance, have we ever seen a waitress at the diner?

[ganesh]

Was I hearing things or did Darlene say "cunty"?

[Avaleigh]

She did indeed say it. It's amazing what they're allowed to get away with on basic cable these days. The ban on the F bomb is getting closer and closer to being fully lifted IMO.  

[ganesh]

I'm not a prude by any means, and I think the cable networks shouldn't censor. I don't get why the one would go through, but the other was bleeped. 

[thuganomics85]

The opening segment was interesting in seeing what was the beginning of Elliot's idea for F-Society, and how he and Darlene interacted with each other.  Still a bit weird as you would expect, but you can still kind of see an almost normal sibling relationship back then.  Obviously, their relationship has taken a much different turn now.

Figured they weren't going to have either Mr. Robot go or have Elliot loose control permanently, so the chess game always ending in a stalemate was a solid way to get around it.  As Mr. Robot said, there is just some part of Elliot that does not want to get rid of him, no matter how much pain and craziness he causes.  I'm not sure if there is anything that get rid of him.

Elliot's fantasy scene was great.  I imagine it was fun for the normal cast to get to act a bit different then they normally did.  For some reason, the bit where Ray and Tyrell were shaking hands with big goofy grins on their faces, was what really got me.  Hilarious!

Joanna is having money troubles!  I do not see this ending smoothly.  Joanna will totally do something very, very bad, to get what she wants!

The FBI agent lady seems to be getting close to uncovering the truth.  But now Elliot is using Ray's computer to hack the FBI, so I don't know how that's going to end up changing the game.

Angela's story-line continues to fascinate me.  Price truly did seem impress by her move, even if it apparently wasn't what he really wanted from her.  What his his game?  But I'm thrilled White Rose is finally back into the picture! 

[AliShibaz]

There was a great song played about a Highwayman. I thought it was in this episode, but I just scanned thru it again and can't find it.

Can anyone help me and tell me in which episode it was used? Thank you.

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Figured they weren't going to have either Mr. Robot go or have Elliot loose control permanently, so the chess game always ending in a stalemate was a solid way to get around it.  As Mr. Robot said, there is just some part of Elliot that does not want to get rid of him, no matter how much pain and craziness he causes.  I'm not sure if there is anything that get rid of him.

Cancellation will do it. Short of that, I think he's gonna be a permanent fixture. After all, Christian Slater is listed as a producer of this show.

 

Quote

Joanna is having money troubles!  I do not see this ending smoothly.  Joanna will totally do something very, very bad, to get what she wants!

I think it's pretty clear that she is capable of just about anything. Remember what Cersei from GoT said about her children? "I will burn cities to the ground in order to protect my children".  I think Joanna is ever bit as serious and as "whacked out" as Cersei.

 

Quote

The FBI agent lady seems to be getting close to uncovering the truth.  But now Elliot is using Ray's computer to hack the FBI, so I don't know how that's going to end up changing the game.

I made another post in which I said that she seems like a good match for Elliot. By that I meant that she seems every bit as knowledgeable and as clever as he is and the contest (or struggle) between the two of them should be a real rollicking adventure and should fill the rest of this season. I anticipate it will be the highlight of this season.

 

Quote

Angela's story-line continues to fascinate me.  Price truly did seem impress by her move, even if it apparently wasn't what he really wanted from her.  What his his game? 

I get a similar creepy sensation about him. I would guess that he is trying to "play" Angela. By that I mean he will make her appear to be the primary person who is implementing some plan that will backfire on E corp and Angela will be left holding the bag.  I would guess that Price intends to walk away from the mess with a ton of cash and leave Angela to take all the blame.

I apologize for messing up the facility to make multiple quotes from a single post. I hope to have it working next time I try it. I just didn't want to leave some ugly empty post in this thread and have to ask a moderator to delete it.

[AliShibaz]

I found that song. It's called "Highwayman" and it's sung by a group called "The Highwaymen". It was played in S2E03 at the 25 minute mark.

Not being a country music fan, I had never previously heard of this group. It's called a "Supergroup" and consists of Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, Kris Kristoferson and Waylon Jennings. I listened to some of their music and I thought it was excellent.

But I'd like to understand the connection between the song and what is going on in the episode when it is played. The FBI agent, Dominique DiPierro had a fitful night. She had read a news report about the murder of Elliot's old boss (Gideon Goddard) and she wakes up in the morning and is brushing her teeth when this song plays. While it plays, she spends far too much time applying her makeup and looking in the mirror. What is going through her mind? Is it that she's getting older and is disappointed to be living alone and needing to masturbate without having a lover? The song does reflect back on the life of a Highwayman who doesn't seem particularly happy either. But I still don't understand the connection.

I'd be surprised if there is no connection between the song and the events on the screen when it plays. This showrunner doesn't seem to do things randomly. I would expect he had a reason for playing that particular song at that particular point in the episode.

Would anyone care to state some opinions as to what that might be?

Edited July 31, 2016 by AliShibaz

[shapeshifter]

Good and helpful recap from Sarah B:

On July 28, 2016 at 10:32 AM, PreviouslyTV said:

WarGames, Green Day, and other allusions from a water-treading fourth episode.

View the full article

 

In the future I will be sure to watch only during the morning before my energy flags. I rewatched the second half of this one this a.m., and it flowed nicely. I wonder if I'll ever live to rewatch the show in its entirety--or at least to pick up episode reruns on a free, over-the-air channel.

Maybe because I too have walked the planet for 6 decades, the best part for me was the repeating refrain, "It's a rainy night in Georgia / And it feels like it's raining all over the world" when Darlene seemed about to be attacked on the street (but was not). Was that song maybe added to reassure the audience that even while looking over her shoulder, she was not about to meet violence?

I enjoyed recognizing the Seinfeld reference to being guilty of violating the Good Samaritan law, even if I'm not sure of its significance to the show. Maybe refering to the absence of Flipper this season? 
I hope not.   :>(

In the fantasy dinner table scene, was that the twin towers crumbling, or a different structure?

Edited July 31, 2016 by shapeshifter
typo

[AliShibaz]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Good and helpful recap from Sarah B:

In the future I will be sure to watch only during the morning before my energy flags. I rewatched the second half of this one this a.m., and it flowed nicely. I wonder if I'll ever live to rewatch the show in its entirety--or at least to pick up episode reruns on a free, over-the-air channel.

Maybe because I too have walked the planet for 6 decades, the best part for me was the repeating refrain, "It's a rainy night in Georgia / And it feels like it's raining all over the world" when Darlene seemed about to be attacked on the street (but was not). Was that song maybe added to reassure the audience that even while looking over her shoulder, she was not about to meet violence?

I enjoyed recognizing the Seinfeld reference to being guilty of violating the Good Samaritan law, even if I'm not sure of its significance to the show. Maybe refering to the absence of Flipper this season? 
I hope not.   :>(

In the fantasy dinner table scene, was that the twin towers crumbling, or a different structure?

Thank you for linking to that article. It was good and helpful. But, Dang! Sarah B.'s writing style makes me wish I had a PhD in popular culture. I'm not complaining. I'm just admiring her incredible breadth of knowledge about our culture.  I never even realized there was another section to this site that contained articles like that. I'm looking forward to reading the one for Episode 3. Maybe she will discuss that Highwayman song.

Edited July 31, 2016 by AliShibaz

[ganesh]

I can't watch during the week because it's too long. I watched last night, and even then, after working in the yard all day, I had a tough time getting through the episode. 

[Johnny Dollar]

It also took me a while to recognize the Green Day song. Apropos of nothing, I saw American Idiot on Broadway and found it to be surprisingly entertaining.

[shapeshifter]

On July 28, 2016 at 7:41 PM, justmehere said:

Darlene's comment was something she mentioned later, too, saying it came from when Elliot first taught her to code: "Init 1" (per closed captioning), a code between them to indicate a genuine need. She wouldn't invoke it unless she really needed to...

"Eps2.2_init1.asec" is the episode's title. Programmers reading this: "Init" means "initiate," as in begin or start a sequence, right?

[Cardie]

The Highwayman song has verses about a highwayman in (I'd guess) the 17th or 18th century; a sailor in the 19th; a construction worker who helped build Boulder Dam in the 20th; and a space ship captain in the future. The first three die young (and violently) while pursuing their vocations yet announce that they still live. The space traveler says that perhaps his spirit will finally find rest among the stars, but perhaps he'll become a highwayman again. The gist of the song, then, is that there is a universal spirit of daring and adventure that lives on after the particular body it inhabits at any given time perishes. I don't know how that applies to Grace Gummer, except perhaps this is the kind of man she'd like to meet. Mr. Robot, of course, is "living still" inside Elliot.

I'm not a huge country music fan but I've always loved that ballad.

[AliShibaz]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

The Highwayman song has verses about a highwayman in (I'd guess) the 17th or 18th century; a sailor in the 19th; a construction worker who helped build Boulder Dam in the 20th; and a space ship captain in the future. The first three die young (and violently) while pursuing their vocations yet announce that they still live. The space traveler says that perhaps his spirit will finally find rest among the stars, but perhaps he'll become a highwayman again. The gist of the song, then, is that there is a universal spirit of daring and adventure that lives on after the particular body it inhabits at any given time perishes. I don't know how that applies to Grace Gummer, except perhaps this is the kind of man she'd like to meet. Mr. Robot, of course, is "living still" inside Elliot.

I'm not a huge country music fan but I've always loved that ballad.

Well done Cardie. I really enjoyed and appreciated your interpretation. I would love to know how that ballad applies to Dominique as well. I'm hoping there is a good story about her that will be revealed to us. I think there could well be some profound sadness in her history. Perhaps she lost a child once due to tragic circumstances. Or maybe a partner. When she stared at herself in the mirror for a long time, it seemed to me she was sad about something or longing for something.

But that song is truly excellent. IMHO, whoever who picks the music for this show is at the top of their form. They played Leonard Cohen's "Who by Fire" in a previous episode. That is another great song. Most everything from him is truly great. After the 20th century has largely faded into memory, I think Leonard Cohen will be one of the few artists who will still be an inspiration to people (providing there are still people remaining). I hope we will eventually learn the significance of these songs (awa others) to the plot of this show. I could be wrong, but I believe this SR (Sam Esmail) doesn't do too much randomly. I hope that many of the things in this show will eventually be shown to have some connection or some meaning to the plot.

I'm not a country music fan either. When I was 18, I had a friend who tried to introduce me to country music by playing Tammy Wynette's "Stand by Your Man" over and over again. I wanted to steal his 8-track and destroy it so he couldn't play it again.

P.S. Has anyone posted about the connection between the name "Sam Esmail" and the name Elliot chose to fool that  employee at the data center? It was "Sam Sepiol". I saw an interesting post on Reddit called, "Sam Sepiol" Easter Egg: Mr. Robot.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MrRobot/comments/3itq4o/sam_sepiol_easter_egg/?st=irbsjzrx&sh=c59ec31e

This small post seems to reinforce my belief that many of the events in this show that seem to be strange really do have some interesting meaning or connection to other events or the overall plot.

Edited August 1, 2016 by AliShibaz

[SailorGirl]

On 7/30/2016 at 11:19 AM, AliShibaz said:

OK. Sorry. I didn't see your request before making my second post. From now on I will refer to Elliot by using his full name. Thank you for making your desire known in a nice courteous manner. I'm happy to oblige you.

P.S. I will spell his name correctly unless you have some reason for preferring "Eliot"?

I don't know how the show is spelling it, so if they are using two els, then by all means, let's spell it that way. I'm fine with either spelling of the name, just as long it IS spelled out! :-D

Thank you!  
 

[morgankobi]

This is the very last place I expected a long Raising Arizona homage, but here we are.

[Misstify]

I got a bit behind on this show and now have to catch up.  I guess that could be a good thing, as people have mentioned the show benefits from binge-watching.  Generally, I watch each episode only once, I don't worry too much about what's real and what's not, and just wait for it to fall into place.  I felt from the beginning of season 2 that Elliot was not really at his mom's.  I don't remember the exact line that made me think that, but it was something about that's how he prefers it...meaning, to me, he prefers to imagine that it's his mom shutting his bedroom door at night.  I think he is in an institution, and that he put himself there.  Darlene said something this episode about not understanding why he chose it.  When she is visiting him, it looks like they're in a communal area.  Elliot has all his meals with the same person (a person who talks about one topic only).  He uses a phone that's in a hallway.  We've seen him at a basketball court and playing chess outdoors, both in settings that could be institutional.  He has no access to computers.  I am not sure who Ray is, exactly, but his computer room looks like an office that has a door opening onto a hallway.

Other parts of the show have me baffled, though.  I have no idea what's going on with Mrs. Wellick!  I don't understand how or why she has a driver.  I'll wait patiently to find out more about what Tyrell's part in all this is.

I'm also confused about Angela.  In the previous episode, I thought she was severing ties with the lawyer because Angela felt valued at E Corp.  Now she is back with the lawyer again.  Was it the one dinner with the evil men and the evidence on the disk that brought her back?

[AliShibaz]

I wouldn't put too much into the settings we see because all the settings seem to be disguised. So, the question may be how much or what part of the settings are disguised and how much are real?

[KaleyFirefly]

On 7/29/2016 at 8:21 AM, Neurochick said:

I agree that Elliot felt abused by his father, and because of that, blocked out everything relating to his past out, blocked everything that he feels is connected to his past, out.  That was why he didn't realize Darlene was his sister. 

Elliot was not abused by his father, not as far as we've seen. In the flashback at his dad's computer repair shop, his dad was forgiving of Elliot even though Elliot stole money. And in the flashback of the window incident, it seems it was an accident (or kid Elliot throwing himself out the window) and his dad seemed frantic and very worried about him (while his mom just seemed concerned about how much the cast for his arm would cost).

In the photos Elliot sees on his CD, he and his dad were obviously very close.

But Elliot's vision of Mr. Robot is different from his dad. Mr. Robot, as a part of Elliot, is not exactly the same as his dad.