S02.E06: Casualty

[Save Yourself]

13 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

As for Rachel, I've never felt the need for female characters to be soft or cuddly to identify with them, Hell I'm not even all that picky about likable. I just want them to be entertaining and she certainly delivered on that score tonight.

I'm still not sure if she is actually crazy. She definitely acts out but that doesn't mean she has any underlying imbalance or pathology. In Rachel's case I almost wonder if it a case of her being told shes crazy so much shes learned to act that way because she was never taught an appropriate way to handle things. Her mother certainly never would have encouraged healthy coping mechanisms. Someone who is truly Bi-polar doesn't react that quickly to going of their meds for one. We saw that last year with Mary. I think on some level Rachel believes she is crazy and so that amplifies her dysfunction but I'm not sure she is suffering anything other than depression. 

You can absolutely have a reaction only a day after going off your meds. Some of the meds are so specific that you need to take it at the same time everyday or you start getting 'brain zaps' which are very painful. Only 24 hours after going cold turkey off psychiatric medication can send you very quickly into severe depression, a suicidal state, psychosis, manic states, etc. It's very dangerous.

13 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

To be fair, I don't know that Rachel has ever been taking her meds, or if she has if she's been taking them consistently enough for them to be effective.  I got the impression that her mom has been sending her care packages full of pills, and that for the most part Rachel hasn't been taking them.  Which I wouldn't blame her for. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't take any prescription medications that weren't prescribed to me by a doctor who didn't have the appropriate level of professional distance to treat me in a responsible manner.

I don't think it's been established that Rachel has a mood disorder or a personality disorder, or that she has any sort of pre-existing condition that wasn't caused by her mother treating her like a patient instead of a child.   But at the very least she has had a severe depressive episode in her recent past (the period between her breakdown and coming back to work) and that combined with the rest of her behavior is a sign that she probably needs some sort of professional help.  That doesn't mean she's crazy (I don't think that word should be used on anyone who's not suffering from serious delusions anyway), or even mean that she needs long term psychiatric treatment.  But I do think that everything she's been dealing with for the last few years is more than she can handle on her own, because as you pointed out it seems unlikely that she learned many healthy coping skills as a kid.

Yes it's frustrating we don't know if she does take meds or not although Quinn thinks she does. If she is just taking them sporadically they would be doing her a lot of harm. We shouldn't be calling anybody 'crazy', it's not a medical term, it's a pejorative one. If someone is having delusions they are could be in a state of psychosis, hallucinating, acute paranoia, lots of things. I think Rachel is Bipolar II and has Borderline Personality Disorder - I have both of these (they are often comorbid) and recognise a lot of the traits that are being portrayed. Her mother has made things that much worse for her though by eroding her self-esteem and wanting to continually diagnose her with more disorders - like there is no way she has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. 

 

5 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

i disagree.  Mood swings as a symptom aren't exclusive to bipolar disorder, and it's a misconception among people unfamiliar with bipolar disorder that people suffering from that condition careen from mood to mood over a short period of time.  That's generally not how it happens.  Manic and depressive episodes usually linger for several days, if not weeks or months at a time.  People with bipolar also usually have long stretches of time where their moods are normal/stable, which is something that doesn't seem true for Rachel who has always been depicted as barely keeping things together.  And while I'm loathe to give any credence at all to Rachel's mom, I do think it's telling that she herself had moved on from bipolar disorder as her chosen theory for what's wrong with Rachel.  Borderline personality disorder, her mom's current diagnosis, is also characterized by mood swings and has other criteria that better fit Rachel far better than bipolar disorder.  The fact that Rachel's mood swings are often triggered by events in her life alone is a pretty good sign that she's not bipolar.  The defining characteristic of bipolar disorder is that the severe shift in mood seems to come out of nowhere.  We don't see that at all with Rachel.  Her extreme moods are almost always a reaction to something that's going on at work or with her personal relationships.

I'm not where you've got your information from but between the two types of Bipolar you can certainly be rapidly cycling going from depression to hypomania and back again within hours right through to the other extreme of having a manic episode for months on end. You can also have a 'mixed state' where you are depressed and manic/hyper manic at the same time, this is considered the most time most likely for a Bipolar sufferer to take their life. Also, when mania or highs are talked about people usually think of extreme happiness but it can also be overwhelming feelings of anger, irritability and frustration. If people are medicated yes they can have long stable stretches - you can still have manic or depressive episodes even on medication but they are usually not as severe - however if someone isn't medicated if really depends how severe their condition is, they can spend their whole life yo-yoing which is why the condition is considered to be so serious and needs to be treated and monitored. Bipolar moods - depression, mania, hypomania CAN be triggered by life events, this is why we are taught by mental health professionals how to recognise our triggers. And it also can just come of nowhere and you don't know why you're suddenly so high or low. Yes BPD and Bipolar have a lot of similar traits, as I've said above, I believe Rachel has both and I think her Bipolar is type 2. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Save Yourself
ETA extra info

[RCharter]

6 hours ago, phoenics said:

My point was more that it wasn't like Rachel HAD to still date Coleman to get there.  Quinn either.  I get what you mean - but Quinn didn't really get EverLasting on her own either - Chet was there and basically stole it from her.  Her reticence about John Booth was about something else.  And Rachel isn't being legally held to EverLasting anymore - she could leave too on her own.  And probably make it somewhere else.  I just don't get what ties them to EverLasting specifically - the show isn't really doing a good job of driving that home for me.  I'm getting a serious case of that stereotype that black women get a lot of which is how black women's girl posse's actually hurting the black women's chance of having real love.

Rachel could break away and do her own thing - I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility - she doesn't NEED Everlasting.

Neither does Quinn.

They could BOTH leave and do better AND have the men.  And it doesn't mean they have to take what the men are offering either.  

My main point is that being a woman who made it on her own without a man, I don't see the appeal of Everlasting at all.  It's garbage and soul destroying.  And Rachel and Quinn seemed doomed to never find love and happiness while they are saddled with it.  GET OUT ladies!  It's not worth it!

My comment was this:  "I would date the hell out of John Booth and have a bushel of biracial semi-ashy babies with him."

I'm a black woman.  Hence the biracial babies.  The ashy babies reference is from the movie Something New.  

I don't know, I would imagine that Rachel has gotten somewhat of a reputation in her industry.  She was "plucked" from nowhere, and has publicly acted out.  I might not want to put her in charge of things because if stuff went sideways who knows what she would be doing.

And I'm a little over Rachel, for all her talk of feminism, she tends to constantly lean too heavily on men in the workplace.  The very idea that she would even get involved with Coleman after the disaster of Adam/Jeremy is just.....not great to me.  As much as she will pick on the contestants and talk down to them, I don't particularly think she is any better than any of them.  And the fact that she seems to be under that impression, makes her even less likeable.

How long is it between filmings?  A year or so?  She had this giant blowup with Jeremy/Adam...both men she was dating in the workplace.  The year before she drove off in a car due to stress of the show and that video of her talking about Jeremy (a man she was dating in the workplace) made the rounds.  

How can she not get the message that its time to stop shitting where she eats.  Or maybe she just needs to stop eating for a while, because she can't eat in a healthy manner right now.

I would also have babies with John Booth...

6 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Other Random Black Lady has a name and lines and a career and everything. Wow! Of course she was only kept so they could have that drama of "will Darius cut Tiffany or Racist Beth Ann" but whatever. Finally Beth Anne is gone even though I'm still not sure how she lasted this long. That's one of the biggest problems with this season. The contestants are such an afterthought other than maybe two or three. Activist Ruby was an interesting character but to find out that Jameson was a cop? Could have been nice to explore some of that. Instead of trying to force fights between Ruby and Beth Anne (which went nowhere) I would have also liked to see how Ruby felt about Jameson being a black cop in Chicago.

Nice to see Jay do something other than bitch at Rachel.

Chet this episode felt like Chet from last season which makes me hate the MRA version we've had to suffer through for every episode until this one.

EXACTLY!!!!  I also would have liked to know more about Jameson, why did a Philly cop choose to be on this show?  How has she made it to the final 4 when I haven't seen Darius so much as hand her a cracker?

 

9 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

One all-time great moment I forgot to mention: When Beth Ann's babydaddy is storming off set (a gunshot breakup instead of a gunshot wedding) and Rachel hands him his bike helmet and says 'thankyousomuch' like he fixed a flat or checked a coat for her.

Yeah, but you know Rachel was hoping that the boyfriend was going to say the "n" word.  I wonder if that was a discussion in the writers room.  Rachel seem genuinely upset that there wasn't an obvious racist around and I thought that either the boyfriend was going to say something racist, or that the stress of the situation would somehow cause someone in the family to go off-script and say something racist (not something as obvious as the "n" word, but something that could be used)

[xqueenfrostine]

2 hours ago, dixiecricket said:

Look, when I was in England when I was just out of high school; I met a family from upper NY. Long story short, the kids (ages 16-25) all, individually, expressed their relief that I had shoes. I thought they were joking and laughed, only to be met with serious stares. They then proceeded to grill me on "life in Alabama". Did I ride a horse to school? Were roads paved? Did we have air conditioning? Were people still poor? Were cities/businesses/schools still segregated? Did I have any family in the Klan? ---------------------------------So, yeah, I don't need Hollywood to continue perpetuating this stereotype.

Hey I'm from Oklahoma, so I hear you on having your home state being thought of as some rural backwater full of hicks who are decades behind the rest of the country.  But I don't think the show is guilty of perpetuating unrealistic stereotypes in this particular area.  If anything, the stereotype they were most guilty of perpetuating is the snobby coastal elite type who sneers down their nose at Middle America.  Rachel, Darius and Coleman all had expectations of what Alabama is like, and the show made it clear that none of those expectations were met.  Even Rachel's manufactured drama defied expectations.  Neither Beth Ann's family or Beth Ann's ex-boyfriend reacted to the news of Beth Ann's pregnancy in way that made it seem like they were particularly outraged by the implication that a black man might have fathered her baby.  You might have preferred it had Beth Ann come from a more urban or suburban Alabaman life, but she didn't.  Lots of people in the South hail from small towns.  It'd obviously be nicer if there was more representation of people in the South who came from mid-size cities as opposed to rural areas, but I don't think it's inherently wrong to represent Southern rural life on TV.

 

46 minutes ago, RCharter said:

But, I think this is how writers will signal "bi-polar disorder" to a TV viewing audience that may be unfamiliar with the actual signs and symptoms.  Or just some variety of mental illness that needs to be treated.  And I just think that more people are familiar with the diagnosis of bi-polar.

However, in terms of what is actually wrong with Rachel -- it sounds like you have way more of a grasp of it than would the general viewing audience...and myself, of course.  

Again, no I don't think this is the show's way of telling us Rachel is bipolar.  I don't think they would have gone to the trouble of showing her mother tell her that she has Borderline personality disorder and establishing that her mom had ruled out bipolar disorder as a diagnosis if they wanted to think that Rachel is in fact bipolar. Plus I doubt they'd have two characters share the same mental illness and we already know what bipolar disorder looks like in the minds of the writers.  Mary's condition looked very different from Rachel's, and was a much more accurate (though still fairly flawed) depiction of what bipolar disorder looks like.   The difference in the depictions of Rachel and Mary at the very least show that the writers understand the difference between a mood disorder and a personality disorder.

[RCharter]

1 minute ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Again, no I don't think this is the show's way of telling us Rachel is bipolar.  I don't think they would have gone to the trouble of showing her mother tell her that she has Borderline personality disorder and establishing that her mom had ruled out bipolar disorder as a diagnosis if they wanted to think that Rachel is in fact bipolar. Plus I doubt they'd have two characters share the same mental illness and we already know what bipolar disorder looks like in the minds of the writers.  Mary's condition looked very different from Rachel's, and was a much more accurate (though still fairly flawed) depiction of what bipolar disorder looks like.   The difference in the depictions of Rachel and Mary at the very least show that the writers understand the difference between a mood disorder and a personality disorder.

But was it all that different?  Rachel does go through bouts of being "fine" and then, when faced with a stressful situation she freaks out.  Mary was for real on medication so her symptoms may have been less obvious through most of the filming.  But she had a stressful situation and she freaked out as well.  And sort of in the same way as Rachel.  There was a manic type high, followed by the crash that is to come.  At least thats how I saw it.

But again, I don't even think the show is really wanting the viewer to know anything more than that Rachel has a mental condition that is causing her to have these manic highs and crashing lows.  And that condition is triggered by stress.  

I think its something more than that Rachel is fine and people just expect her to act out and therefore she does.  

[Save Yourself]

I would really appreciate it if people would avoid using the word 'crazy' when talking about mental illness on the board. It's as disparaging as calling a gay person a f***** and it is not a clinical term. There is a lot of stigma for those of us with mental illness and it's quite hurtful to be called 'crazy' when through no fault of our own we have a serious condition that affects our daily lives and causes a lot of pain. The part of mental health stigma that UnREAL portrays very well is the fact that even if Rachel is in a stable state, as soon as someone wants to 'get' at her they start throwing her mental health back in her face. This is a very real thing in my life and others with poor mental health, no one ever lets you forgot that you are 'crazy'. The ongoing use of that word helps to contribute to that stigma. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Save Yourself

[MostlyC]

Rachel was definitely on a high, in a manic state. I don't blame her; after Jeremy hit her, she was deeply traumatized.  I suspect she does have some kind of illness especially because we had hints of her breakdown in the flashbacks when she broke up the finale and crashed a car.  I see her having some kind of emotional crash.

Chet is growing on me; he truly does care for the little dysfunctional family.  I laughed when he called Rachel the little weirdo.  he sounded a bit like an exasperated father or Uncle. And I cheered with Quinn took Jeremy by the balls, literally.

Madison needs to go.  And Yael has me more suspicious than ever.

Nice to see Adam again!  He looked very, very hot with that scruffy beard and that smile- I look forward to the next episode.
 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

As UnREAL Takes Its Bad Decisions On The Road, Whose Ethics Are Most Questionable?

As always, we're grading on a curve.

[voiceover]

2 hours ago, RCharter said:

white woman that nearly accused you of being her baby daddy > BLM for Darius I guess?

Not a fair comparison.  I pointed out in my earlier post that Darius has talked about all the *people* he takes care of -- family & friends -- so his offer to BethAnn rang true to his MO (he takes care of people because he can).

BLM is an *organization*.  Whether or not he contributes is not a logical equivalent to how he thinks, which is in terms of *people*.  A fair equivalency would be, say, if Ruby had a cousin who was orphaned because his dad was killed, so Darius could offer scholarship money to her cousin.

[RCharter]

1 hour ago, Save Yourself said:

I would really appreciate it if people would avoid using the word 'crazy' when talking about mental illness on the board. It's as disparaging as calling a gay person a f***** and it is not a clinical term. There is a lot of stigma for those of us with mental illness and it's quite hurtful to be called 'crazy' when through no fault of our own we have a serious condition that affects our daily lives and causes a lot of pain. The part of mental health stigma that UnREAL portrays very well is the fact that even if Rachel is in a stable state, as soon as someone wants to 'get' at her they start throwing her mental health back in her face. This is a very real thing in my life and others with poor mental health, no one ever lets you forgot that you are 'crazy'. The ongoing use of that word helps to contribute to that stigma. 

I don't think I did this -- I try to avoid the word for actual mental illness.  If I did, I apologize.

[dixiecricket]

4 hours ago, RCharter said:

I think that Rachel's assumption of there being a racist southern family was based on the fact that: a) there are likely still a lot of racist holdovers in the South.  I'm not saying EVERYONE in the South is a racist, but given the long and storied history of racism in the South there may be more racists per square inch than in other places, and b) that Beth Anne saw fit to have/wear a confederate flag bikini and defend the confederate flag (which, frankly, I've had just about enough of, there are other symbols you can use to evidence your distaste for government that aren't steeped in slavery) and c) that Beth Anne doesn't even really seem to see Darius as a person at all but as "Quarterback" would all be clues that she might come from a family that is racist.  

 

No. Where this belief comes from is the fact that anytime the South is mentioned it is inferred that we are anxiously awaiting for the next round of the Civil War. As an example, Civil Rights Era in Birmingham, Alabama, definitely not a proud moment for the state. To this day, anytime civil rights and Birmingham are mentioned in the same breath - the "media" start showing grainy black and white video of awful atrocities from 50 years ago. FIFTY. 5-0. Shows like this don't help show that this part of the world isn't like this any more.

 

3 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Hey I'm from Oklahoma, so I hear you on having your home state being thought of as some rural backwater full of hicks who are decades behind the rest of the country.  But I don't think the show is guilty of perpetuating unrealistic stereotypes in this particular area.  If anything, the stereotype they were most guilty of perpetuating is the snobby coastal elite type who sneers down their nose at Middle America.  Rachel, Darius and Coleman all had expectations of what Alabama is like, and the show made it clear that none of those expectations were met.  Even Rachel's manufactured drama defied expectations.  Neither Beth Ann's family or Beth Ann's ex-boyfriend reacted to the news of Beth Ann's pregnancy in way that made it seem like they were particularly outraged by the implication that a black man might have fathered her baby.  You might have preferred it had Beth Ann come from a more urban or suburban Alabaman life, but she didn't.  Lots of people in the South hail from small towns.  It'd obviously be nicer if there was more representation of people in the South who came from mid-size cities as opposed to rural areas, but I don't think it's inherently wrong to represent Southern rural life on TV.

 

I am from a small town so I have no issue with it at all; but the vast majority of non-Southerners (in the US and around the world as I have learned) cannot fathom that Alabama/Mississippi have thriving cities. Overall the state is rural; but I was half expecting the General Lee to come flying over their backyard picnic in typical bridge-jump fashion (please tell me I am not the only one who knows what the General Lee is?)

[RCharter]

6 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

No. Where this belief comes from is the fact that anytime the South is mentioned it is inferred that we are anxiously awaiting for the next round of the Civil War. As an example, Civil Rights Era in Birmingham, Alabama, definitely not a proud moment for the state. To this day, anytime civil rights and Birmingham are mentioned in the same breath - the "media" start showing grainy black and white video of awful atrocities from 50 years ago. FIFTY. 5-0. Shows like this don't help show that this part of the world isn't like this any more.

Its not a proud moment for the state, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.  And that doesn't mean that there aren't people alive today who believed in that ideology and raised their children to believe in it, and those children have raised their own children in the same belief system.

I also don't think 50 years is a such a long time as to think that there aren't still quite a few racist holdouts.  I'm guessing 50 years is a long time for those who don't want to be associated with that era, but for the people still suffering from the effects of institutionalized racism 50 years isn't SO LONG AGO as to make that history irrelevant.

There are parts of the south that are still quite segregated.  In fact.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated_prom which, pretty much only happens in the south.

A lot of Southerners may have changed their point of view, but there is no reason to believe that the south is all sunshine and rainbow coalitions now.

Edited July 12, 2016 by RCharter

[dixiecricket]

Just now, RCharter said:

Its not a proud moment for the state, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.  And that doesn't mean that there aren't people alive today who believed in that ideology and raised their children to believe in it, and those children have raised their own children in the same belief system.

I also don't think 50 years is a such a long time as to think that there aren't still quite a few racist holdouts.

There are parts of the south that are still quite segregated.  In fact.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated_prom which, pretty much only happens in the south.

A lot of Southerners may have changed their point of view, but there is no reason to believe that the south is all sunshine and rainbow coalitions now.

I definitely agree it's not perfect; but it's no different than any other state. And for Hollywood, as a whole, to continue perpetuating this notion that Alabama is the proverbial black sheep of the nation regarding race relations is ridiculous. I, again, go back to where are all of the *alleged* race-based police brutality cases?---not here.

 

Please note that I am saying alleged because no one has yet been charged with a crime.

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, voiceover said:

Not a fair comparison.  I pointed out in my earlier post that Darius has talked about all the *people* he takes care of -- family & friends -- so his offer to BethAnn rang true to his MO (he takes care of people because he can).

BLM is an *organization*.  Whether or not he contributes is not a logical equivalent to how he thinks, which is in terms of *people*.  A fair equivalency would be, say, if Ruby had a cousin who was orphaned because his dad was killed, so Darius could offer scholarship money to her cousin.

Or perhaps he could have offered money to one of the victims of police brutality?  Or to their family?  I think the comparison was dead on and it actually made Darius look worse to me - or at least the writers for missing that little point and how it ended up looking in the end.  Ruby just got dismissed with a whole lot less kindness than the racist (yes she was racist) confederate flag wearing pregnant girl did.  That was especially vexing after the way she implied falsely that Darius was the father of her baby - while her dad was holding a gun!

Ugh - now I'm mad all over again.  

That was simply a perfect example of the ingrained white supremacy in this country.  Even on a fake reality show, the black star quarterback dismissed the BLM activist (who never actually ever was an "activist" on the show - all she did was wear a tee shirt) whom he clearly had deep feelings for by blowing out her candle - he didn't even hug her did he? - while white racist confederate flag wearing (and confederate flag house having) pregnant girl gets a scholarship for her unborn baby and a hug.

That really pisses me off.  If this show meant to tackle race, then tackle it.  Don't use it as a prop and then promote white supremacy in our faces unchecked anyway.  Make a statement against it!  Even Rachel's rant about Chantal being boring was BULLSHIT because Chantal is basically this season's version of Anna.  Rachel was simply using coded language to go down the "boring" path for Chantal - when last season she would have been pushing heavily for Anna.  The only problem Rachel had with Chantal wasn't that she was "boring".  It's that she is black.  

[RCharter]

7 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

I definitely agree it's not perfect; but it's no different than any other state. And for Hollywood, as a whole, to continue perpetuating this notion that Alabama is the proverbial black sheep of the nation regarding race relations is ridiculous. I, again, go back to where are all of the *alleged* race-based police brutality cases?---not here.

 

Please note that I am saying alleged because no one has yet been charged with a crime.

Actually, it is different than a lot of other states.  Other states don't have segregated proms.  Other states don't really have the same history of slavery and the economic dependence on slavery that made them treat human beings like filth and property.  Other states don't have the same history of having to objectify an entire race of people in order to look yourself in the mirror and not want to shoot yourself in the face for enslaving another person. 

The South traditionally was more reliant on slave labor because of the nature of the agricultural industry.  Therefore, they had more slaves and had to justify slavery to themselves on a daily basis and putting profit before humanity.  Which is much easier to do, when you tell yourself that the person you're enslaving either isn't human or isn't fully human....or is different than you. 

This is the ideology which can and sometimes HAS been passed down through generations.

As for the alleged police brutality cases, I would suspect that in the Southern states, blacks know better than to even complain.

However, I will say that the number of black inmates vs. white inmates on death row in Southern States is startling and very real data.  

Edited July 12, 2016 by RCharter

[phoenics]

20 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

No. Where this belief comes from is the fact that anytime the South is mentioned it is inferred that we are anxiously awaiting for the next round of the Civil War. As an example, Civil Rights Era in Birmingham, Alabama, definitely not a proud moment for the state. To this day, anytime civil rights and Birmingham are mentioned in the same breath - the "media" start showing grainy black and white video of awful atrocities from 50 years ago. FIFTY. 5-0. Shows like this don't help show that this part of the world isn't like this any more.

Some of the people who were around back then are still alive now.  Like my parents.  And it's not like we suddenly got free and clear and racism ended once the civil rights act was passed.  I went to Auburn for grad school and still had to look at Confederate flags every-damn-where and that was recent.  The south has earned its racist reputation - sorry but it has.  I'm black and from the south and I think I know what it's like there.  My mom went to Talladega.  And was there when she couldn't drink from the same water fountain as white people.  My parents aren't that old.

And well, in terms of "alleged" brutality - didn't police in AL literally beat an Indian man until he couldn't walk for walking around in his family's neighborhood?  And in Tuscaloosa, some police beat some students on campus?  AL may not be at the forefront of many of the police brutality cases we're seeing right now - but I suspect some of that is due to lack of video evidence.

Also - we still show pictures of the Holocaust.  As we should - it was a terrible event that shouldn't be forgotten because we don't want history to repeat itself.

Edited July 12, 2016 by phoenics

[dixiecricket]

42 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Some of the people who were around back then are still alive now.  Like my parents.  And it's not like we suddenly got free and clear and racism ended once the civil rights act was passed.  I went to Auburn for grad school and still had to look at Confederate flags every-damn-where and that was recent.  The south has earned its racist reputation - sorry but it has.  I'm black and from the south and I think I know what it's like there.  My mom went to Talladega.  And was there when she couldn't drink from the same water fountain as white people.  My parents aren't that old.

Also - we still show pictures of the Holocaust.  As we should - it was a terrible event that shouldn't be forgotten because we don't want history to repeat itself.

Every time, Germany is mentioned, we don't immediately play Holocaust tributes. Every time the Jewish people are mentioned, the media doesn't play a Holocaust montage. These images are only used in their historically accurate context.

 

44 minutes ago, RCharter said:

Actually, it is different than a lot of other states.  Other states don't have segregated proms.  Other states don't really have the same history of slavery and the economic dependence on slavery that made them treat human beings like filth and property.  Other states don't have the same history of having to objectify an entire race of people in order to look yourself in the mirror and not want to shoot yourself in the face for enslaving another person. 

The South traditionally was more reliant on slave labor because of the nature of the agricultural industry.  Therefore, they had more slaves and had to justify slavery to themselves on a daily basis and putting profit before humanity.  Which is much easier to do, when you tell yourself that the person you're enslaving either isn't human or isn't fully human....or is different than you. 

This is the ideology which can and sometimes HAS been passed down through generations.

As for the alleged police brutality cases, I would suspect that in the Southern states, blacks know better than to even complain.

However, I will say that the number of black inmates vs. white inmates on death row is startling.  And its a statistic that can actually be measured.

These are all events that happened in more than one state. And, again, happened years ago. I can't fix what happened back then other than to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

The bottom line is this, Alabama is not the ONLY state to have a marred history. I am exasperated that Hollywood continues to treat this state as being the only state where events happened.

[RCharter]

4 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

Every time, Germany is mentioned, we don't immediately play Holocaust tributes. Every time the Jewish people are mentioned, the media doesn't play a Holocaust montage. These images are only used in their historically accurate context.

This doesn't always happen with the southern states either.

Most of the times now when people are talking about Georgia (part of the south) they are talking about a trashy reality show, many times when people are talking about North Carolina -- its about their sports teams.  Most of the times, grainy 50's video doesn't even get shown.

[dixiecricket]

1 minute ago, RCharter said:

This doesn't always happen with the southern states either.

Most of the times now when people are talking about Georgia (part of the south) they are talking about a trashy reality show, many times when people are talking about North Carolina -- its about their sports teams.  Most of the times, grainy 50's video doesn't even get shown.

This is my point, Alabama is never shown in any other light. This show proved no different with the exception of college football, which (as an Auburn fan) doesn't count) ;)

Edited July 12, 2016 by dixiecricket

[RCharter]

31 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

These are all events that happened in more than one state. And, again, happened years ago. I can't fix what happened back then other than to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

The bottom line is this, Alabama is not the ONLY state to have a marred history. I am exasperated that Hollywood continues to treat this state as being the only state where events happened.

No, segregated proms still happen in the south.  And they happened on a wider scale as late as the 1990's, not 50 years ago.  In Alabama there is evidence to suggest that segregated proms still occur even when people objected in 2010. 

Alabama may not be the only state to have a history steeped in racism, but it is a state that has a history steeped in racism.  I don't think Hollywood, or anyone else is unfair to Alabama.

 

27 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

This is my point, Alabama is never shown in any other light. This show proved no different with the exception of college football, which (as an Auburn fan) doesn't count) ;)

No tea, no shade but perhaps Alabama should work on doing something else that is worthy of national attention.  But complaining about a reputation caused by the actions of its own citizens isn't at all fair or reasonable, IMO.

But, I will say that Alabama did gain some national attention when it allowed for posthumous pardon of the Scottsboro boys in 2013.....for a crime they were wrongly convicted of in the 1930.

Seems odd that it would take so long to pardon a group of black men wrongly convicted and imprisoned for raping a white woman.  

[dixiecricket]

26 minutes ago, RCharter said:

No, segregated proms still happen in the south.  And they happened on a wider scale as late as the 1990's, not 50 years ago.  In Alabama there is evidence to suggest that segregated proms still occur even when people objected in 2010. 

Alabama may not be the only state to have a history steeped in racism, but it is a state that has a history steeped in racism.  I don't think Hollywood, or anyone else is unfair to Alabama.

When only Alabama is shown as a racially divided, segregation-wanting state, it is unfair. If Hollywood wants to cast judgement on the South as a whole, then there are many other states to choose from or lump us all together; but it is only Alabama [solely] that continues to be shown this way.

 

21 minutes ago, RCharter said:

No tea, no shade but perhaps Alabama should work on doing something else that is worthy of national attention.  But complaining about a reputation caused by the actions of its own citizens isn't at all fair or reasonable, IMO.

No offense taken, seriously. Hell, I would rather Hollywood and the media focus on Alabama being full of corruption (because unfortunately it is). Anything other than presenting the state like we are still the same as we were 50 years ago.

 

And since I wasn't a citizen of the world in those times, then I think I should be able to expect that 50 years later, I can watch a TV show about my state without seeing a bunch of racist rhetoric bandied about.

[RCharter]

3 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

When only Alabama is shown as a racially divided, segregation-wanting state, it is unfair. If Hollywood wants to cast judgement on the South as a whole, then there are many other states to choose from or lump us all together; but it is only Alabama [solely] that continues to be shown this way.

UnReal didn't show any of that.  But Alabama has come by their reputation fairly.

It is not just Alabama that continues to harbor that reputation, there are other states in the south that have the same reputation.

The only difference is that those states may have also done something else of national note that makes the media discuss those things as well.

[dixiecricket]

Just now, RCharter said:

UnReal didn't show any of that.  But Alabama has come by their reputation fairly.

It is not just Alabama that continues to harbor that reputation, there are other states in the south that have the same reputation.

The only difference is that those states may have also done something else of national note that makes the media discuss those things as well.

Agreed.

Also, it seems that the only thing that brings national attention is college football. HA! Not as attention-grabbing.

[RCharter]

10 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

No offense taken, seriously. Hell, I would rather Hollywood and the media focus on Alabama being full of corruption (because unfortunately it is). Anything other than presenting the state like we are still the same as we were 50 years ago.

 

And since I wasn't a citizen of the world in those times, then I think I should be able to expect that 50 years later, I can watch a TV show about my state without seeing a bunch of racist rhetoric bandied about.

I don't see why you would expect that, is everyone supposed to forget that Alabama has a racist history and still has racists because you came on the scene?

I don't expect that people are going to stop making shows about old Hollywood because I moved to LA

I don't understand people having to avoid reality because it makes others uncomfortable.

The reason that Alabama isn't the exact same as it was 50 years ago, wasn't because of Alabama, but was because of federal law and court decisions.  Its not like everyone in Alabama just had a change of heart and decided to end segregation.  And so, is there much evidence to suggest that the mindset has undergone a great change in regards to race relations?  I don't particularly think so.

I don't think YOU'RE a racist, but I think trying to characterize Alabama as being "just like any other state" in terms of race is not accurate.  But, the state of Alabama is no reflection on you as a person.

Edited July 12, 2016 by RCharter

[formerlyfreedom]

Your points have been made. Move on.

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, dixiecricket said:

This is my point, Alabama is never shown in any other light. This show proved no different with the exception of college football, which (as an Auburn fan) doesn't count) ;)

I was about to mention Bama being mentioned a lot... I guess I don't hear much else about Alabama except for football.  I do hear about the space center though in reference to Alabama.  Huntsville.

[topanga]

5 hours ago, RCharter said:

white woman that nearly accused you of being her baby daddy > BLM for Darius I guess?

ETA: We don't know if Darius actually donated some money secretly to BLM, and it was still really nice of him to put aside money for BethAnn.  Goodness only knows she is going to be in a BAD situation when she gets home.

 

I think that Rachel's assumption of there being a racist southern family was based on the fact that: a) there are likely still a lot of racist holdovers in the South.  I'm not saying EVERYONE in the South is a racist, but given the long and storied history of racism in the South there may be more racists per square inch than in other places, and b) that Beth Anne saw fit to have/wear a confederate flag bikini and defend the confederate flag (which, frankly, I've had just about enough of, there are other symbols you can use to evidence your distaste for government that aren't steeped in slavery) and c) that Beth Anne doesn't even really seem to see Darius as a person at all but as "Quarterback" would all be clues that she might come from a family that is racist.  

If your family may not accept a black man, but will accept you dating "quarterback," it may be because they have issues with black men.

And words cannot describe how shitty it was for her to give her father the impression that Darius might be the father as he was holding a shotgun.  To me, that was a subtle callback to the days when a white woman would sleep with a black men and then claim to be raped and the man ended up getting lynched.

If I were Darius, I wouldn't have even wanted her to sit next to me on the plane, because who knows what other shit she would find to blame on him.

ETA: for some reason I didn't watch parts of the first episode, but I would have also assumed that they would have screened BethAnne for "racist southerner" if that was the narrative they wanted to go with when building their "cast"

I agree. Beth Ann was presented as the candidate who didn't want to room with a black woman because she didn't feel "comfortable." And she freaked out when the suitor was black because of her Confederate bikini, but she allowed Rachel to convince her not to be ashamed of her beliefs.

And her family was flying a Confederate flag at its home. They knew Darius was coming, and they knew how many people, especially black people, are offended by the sight of it. It became a national issue when the South Carolina gunman killed nine people at a church Bible study and spouted racist ideology, all while draped in a Confederate flag. I know that some people in the South will argue that a Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern pride, not racism. But to me that's as outrageous as flying a Swastika flag because the Swastika was originally a Hindu symbol. 

So I think the family was indeed supposed to have some racist ideologies. But apparently their ideologies changed when they learned that the suitor was Darius, a famous NFL quarterback. Does that mean that Beth Ann's parents had no opinion about the possibility of their daughter marrying a black man? Count me as someone who was disappointed by the fact that there was absolutely no racial tension, or discussion of race, in that scene. 

Other than that, I enjoyed the episode. 

--I can't find the original post, but someone mentioned that Rachel didn't look like she'd showered in a while, but Coleman was more than happy to go down on her. I was thinking the exact same thing!

--And I think Rachel is prettier than Hot Rachel (Yael). Even if she is a little unstable. 

[Bama]

I get that "Alabama" is TV shorthand for "backward, racist small town" so whatever but the main thing that pissed me off was Rachel's line about "OMG!  We're making TV history - we're taking a BLACK MAN!  TO ALABAMA!!" (paraphrased).

Alabama is 27% black.  California, where Rachel is from, is 7% black.

BethAnn has probably lived in and amongst more black people than Rachel has.

Like, I get the stereotype but let's not pretend like bringing a black man to Alabama is some big deal.

[xqueenfrostine]

6 hours ago, RCharter said:

But was it all that different?  Rachel does go through bouts of being "fine" and then, when faced with a stressful situation she freaks out.  Mary was for real on medication so her symptoms may have been less obvious through most of the filming.  But she had a stressful situation and she freaked out as well.  And sort of in the same way as Rachel.  There was a manic type high, followed by the crash that is to come.  At least thats how I saw it.

 

*shrugs* My dad has bipolar disorder, so I probably am more conscious of what bipolar cycling looks like compared to other types of mood swings. Mary's and Rachel's mood swings don't look that similar to me. In any case, I think the other reason why you're not seeing the difference is between Mary and Rachel is because you're really only looking at the mood swings as Rachel's symptoms when they're only a small part of the picture  The show has already made a point to portray Rachel's innate talent to manipulate people as part of her illness.   That's not a bipolar thing.   Neither is having a complete meltdown just because you feel like you might be on the verge of having a happy and stable relationship with someone, which is what Rachel described as the catalyst for the nervous breakdown she had in Mexico prior to the beginning of the series.  One of the key characteristics of borderline personality disorder is the difficulty or even inability to form healthy relationships with family, friends, coworkers and romantic partners, which has been a key feature of Rachel's character from the very beginning.  

[nara]

I actually thought Beth Ann's family came off as kind and generous and welcoming, with the big exception being the Confederate flag painted on the wall. One guy even put himself between Brock and Darius to prevent Brock from attacking him.  Even Brock wasn't so bad. I thought the real joke was that Rachel and company's stereotyping did not play out. Luckily for them the pregnancy drama happened.

I think Darius's generosity to Beth Ann was based on her incredible vulnerability at the time. He was shocked when she said she loved him to her family and she appeared to be going off the deep end during the key ceremony. He may have been worried that she would harm herself if she thought her future was hopeless.  I know that I was thinking that. Plus he had recently seen Rachel yelling at him for no reason, so his concern was probably heightened. 

Not sure why Beth Ann suggested Darius could be the father. Could be that she's an automatic liar in tough situations, or she constructed a fantasy romance between her and Darius, or she was trying to force him to pick her, or she was trying to deflect attention from herself.

Totally shipping Quinn and John Booth. 

The sex scene between Rachel and Coleman seemed out of place in this episode. It felt like he should be giving her emotional support, not physical comfort,  especially after the trauma she's been through and her erratic behavior that day. The way he behaved in the meeting with Chet and Quinn led me to believe he understood that. 

Edited July 13, 2016 by nara
Added content

[BingeyKohan]

24 minutes ago, nara said:

 The sex scene between Rachel and Coleman seemed out of place in this episode. It felt like he should be giving her emotional support, not physical comfort,  especially after the trauma she's been through and her erratic behavior that day. The way he behaved in the meeting with Chet and Quinn led me to believe he understood that. 

Pls see my Coleman theory in the Spec thread - I at least want someone to poke some holes in it!

[formerlyfreedom]

I have an estranged family member who has undiagnosed mental illness (as well as being an alcoholic), and what I've learned from the experience is that it's really easy to armchair diagnose, but that's not getting anyone anywhere, frankly. My family member needs professional help that she declines, because she doesn't see the need.

I think it's obvious from what we've seen that Rachel does have some issues that should be addressed, and she's choosing to ignore this as well. I'm not comfortable with saying it's 'this' or 'that,' though and I also agree with the poster earlier who respectfully asked that we don't throw 'crazy' around in here. This show is so much more than just any one issue that we could pick out of it, and I think that's why it fascinates me. It delves into mental health, sexism, racism, ageism, a whole slew of -isms.

I do think this season has been a bit off from last season, but not as much as often happens in the sophomore season of a lot of shows. I'm sticking around, and I am really interested to see what happens going forward.

Also, I'm shallow, and was very happy to see Freddy Stroma at the end of the episode. Please, more Adam!

[Fable]

The more I watch this show, the more I feel I need a long hot shower.  I get that the show is supposed to be about the cutthroat world of producing, but sometimes, it gets hard to take. Of the main cast, I don't think I like anyone.   

On the bright side, Ioan Gruffudd, Zach MacGowan and Freddie Stroma...Yum, Yum!!  

[tennisgurl]

Really, I feel like Beth Ann as a character has been really underused, when she had the possibility to be a really interesting character, and throw in some interesting commentary. Here is a white rural southern woman who has some racist views, who falls all over herself to marry a black man, who happens to be a famous quarterback. Its an interesting way to maybe explore the way sports stars, especially minority sports stars, are treated, especially as compared to non famous minorities. And, yes, I do usually roll my eyes at how the south is always portrayed as some kind of backwater filled with unpaved roads and the KKK. Granted, racism and poverty really are problems, but there are cities with art and diversity as well. Again, I would have been interested in hearing more from Darrius and Beth Anns family. I think we could have had some interesting stuff there. 

Really, that is kind of how I feel about most of the women this season. The only one I feel like we really got to know was Ruby, who was unceremoniously dumped last week, without ever getting into any real discussion about any social issues. And we hardly know the other women at all. I had totally forgotten the black women with short hair was a cop. Can we get some more on her? Or on ANYONE? 

I cannot believe that I am actually liking Chet. Maybe Jeremy sucked up some of his asshole tendencies, like some kind of asshole sponge. 

Adam is back! If Rachel has to be with a guy (I wish she would figure out her issues without needing some guy to lean on) I prefer Adam. 

[Emily Thrace]

8 hours ago, RCharter said:

But was it all that different?  Rachel does go through bouts of being "fine" and then, when faced with a stressful situation she freaks out.  Mary was for real on medication so her symptoms may have been less obvious through most of the filming.  But she had a stressful situation and she freaked out as well.  And sort of in the same way as Rachel.  There was a manic type high, followed by the crash that is to come.  At least thats how I saw it.

But again, I don't even think the show is really wanting the viewer to know anything more than that Rachel has a mental condition that is causing her to have these manic highs and crashing lows.  And that condition is triggered by stress.  

I think its something more than that Rachel is fine and people just expect her to act out and therefore she does.  

The sticking point for me with Rachel and Bi-polar is that Rachel seems to have some control over her moods and the mania in particular. The Bi-polar people I've known do not get calmed by a pep talk the way Rachel was in this episode. Chet talked her down way about Jeremy really quickly in this episode and she agreed with him. Most Bi-polar people you might redirect them but if they want to do something they will do it. To paraphrase Lost "Mentally ill people don't think they're going insane they think they're getting saner ".Rachel seems very aware when she being manic and better at shutting it down then she should be if it was an actual chemical imbalance. I'm not saying she faking she definitely has issues I'm just not convinced it bi-polar yet.

[LittleIggy]

My fave scene was when Chet was talking to Tiffany and his cute little dog strolled in. Kim Matula (Tiffany) petted the pup without missing a beat.

[Save Yourself]

12 hours ago, RCharter said:

I don't think I did this -- I try to avoid the word for actual mental illness.  If I did, I apologize.

I don't think you did and honestly, it's so easy to say without really thinking what it means! My sister and I still use it jokingly about me - 'I'm crazy again, off to the funny farm' but it's a way to take the sting out of a really shitty situation. I think it's a bit like different races and gay people might say certain terminology in their own society that can be hurtful if those outside use it. I never use 'crazy' to talk about mental illness outside my family and 2 friends with bipolar as it is so important to reduce stigma. Thanks for your understanding ?

[dixiecricket]

I could do without long-haired Adam but good grief there was always some sizzling chemistry between he and Rachel.

RE: Darius character - I am really not feeling his character as a whole. I don't know if it is how the character has been written, how the actor is playing him, or what but he almost seems wooden in EVERYTHING that he does. Maybe it's that his backstory isn't as developed but I don't think Adam's was either (I really can't remember). His character just seems misplaced- there is no way that a show like Everlasting would cast him as he doesn't have the personality that the Suitors typically have.

Edited July 14, 2016 by saoirse

[BingeyKohan]

8 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

RE: Darius character - I am really not feeling his character as a whole. I don't know if it is how the character has been written, how the actor is playing him, or what but he almost seems wooden in EVERYTHING that he does. Maybe it's that his backstory isn't as developed but I don't think Adam's was either (I really can't remember). His character just seems misplaced- there is no way that a show like Everlasting would cast him as he doesn't have the personality that the Suitors typically have.

I will see people praising the actor for what he's doing as Darius and think, am I missing something they're seeing? I'm sure he's a good actor but I agree they're not giving him many nuances to work. He's so uninteresting and blank that he seems more suited to being the host of a reality show rather than its allegedly compelling lead.

[dixiecricket]

3 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

I will see people praising the actor for what he's doing as Darius and think, am I missing something they're seeing? I'm sure he's a good actor but I agree they're not giving him many nuances to work. He's so uninteresting and blank that he seems more suited to being the host of a reality show rather than its allegedly compelling lead.

Thank goodness, I am not alone!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

he doesn't have the personality that the Suitors typically have.

He also doesn't have the skin tone Suitors have always had. I think he's coming across well as a Black man with his cultural background, in his somewhat elevated socioeconomic position. If he were putting on the usual Prince Charming act I think that would ring rather false (and the show is already taking a lot of liberties on other things as it is). One thing I believe this season is doing right is showing why The Bachelor franchise will probably not ever have a Black Suitor. Not on a major broadcast network like ABC, anyway.

Not making any assumptions about Rachel's intimate grooming. That said, eyes were rolling at the notion that all she needed was some good head from Coleman to "fix" her---for the moment anyway. Oh lawd help these hysterical women like Rachel, the kind for whom the vibrator was invented.

[dixiecricket]

8 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

He also doesn't have the skin tone Suitors have always had. I think he's coming across well as a Black man with his cultural background, in his somewhat elevated socioeconomic position. If he were putting on the usual Prince Charming act I think that would ring rather false (and the show is already taking a lot of liberties on other things as it is). One thing I believe this season is doing right is showing why The Bachelor franchise will probably not ever have a Black Suitor. Not on a major broadcast network like ABC, anyway.

Not making any assumptions about Rachel's intimate grooming. That said, eyes were rolling at the notion that all she needed was some good head from Coleman to "fix" her---for the moment anyway. Oh lawd help these hysterical women like Rachel, the kind for whom the vibrator was invented.

I think this statement read differently than you may have meant it? All I meant is that the majority of these types of shows are like a prolonged spring break and he doesn't come across as anyone who has ever cut loose - he's very stiff for a man with any skin tone.

[Eolivet]

I don't like how....predictable the eliminations have become? Last year, you had bombshells dropped about contestants, but they stayed in the competition (and some random was eliminated instead). This year, it's like an actual reality show: the minute you get a storyline, it's the kiss of death. If a contestant is featured in the episode, she's eliminated at the end of it. And if the contestant is safe, they get virtually no airtime. I feel like this is the first time in weeks that we saw Chantal or Tiffany or Hot Rachel/Yael.

I find it hard to believe that with one of their fellow contestants being sent home for allegedly lying about abuse to one's father showing up during taping, that the show couldn't have found a way to integrate the remaining contestants into those stories or at least have their reaction. I feel like every week is a one-on-one show with Darius and Eliminated Contestant of the Week, and the others are just extras. That's not the way actual reality shows play, nor is it what the show did last year, so why is it happening now?

Sadly, Unreal is becoming like every show where the cast balloons: suddenly, it's Wasserman and Booth and more Madison screentime, and the contestants -- the actual basis of the show Everlasting, if not the show Unreal -- are getting pushed to the side. I liked the interplay between producers and contestants. Now I feel like the contestants are props to be used to further the stories of producer characters. Which is sad: first, they're getting used and abused by the fictitious Everlasting and then again by the producers of Unreal.

[Save Yourself]

16 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

 

*shrugs* My dad has bipolar disorder, so I probably am more conscious of what bipolar cycling looks like compared to other types of mood swings. Mary's and Rachel's mood swings don't look that similar to me. In any case, I think the other reason why you're not seeing the difference is between Mary and Rachel is because you're really only looking at the mood swings as Rachel's symptoms when they're only a small part of the picture  The show has already made a point to portray Rachel's innate talent to manipulate people as part of her illness.   That's not a bipolar thing.   Neither is having a complete meltdown just because you feel like you might be on the verge of having a happy and stable relationship with someone, which is what Rachel described as the catalyst for the nervous breakdown she had in Mexico prior to the beginning of the series.  One of the key characteristics of borderline personality disorder is the difficulty or even inability to form healthy relationships with family, friends, coworkers and romantic partners, which has been a key feature of Rachel's character from the very beginning.  

I thought they showed different sides of the coin of bipolar. Mary was doing all the 'right' things for her illness - she was diligent with her medication, didn't drink at all, tried to have order in her life and stay out of situations that were stressful. Then she went on the show and that was all ruined, the medication swap out would have been especially devastating to her psyche because she had no idea that had happened, she just suddenly went high, had that awful husband sprung upon her and then crashed so low, I had guessed that she was in such despair because she couldn't even say to herself 'it's because I'm not on my meds', she just thought I'm going to be this way for ever so I'll be a shit mum, I can't do that to my daughter. And then you've got Rachel who we still don't know if she takes her meds at all but if she does, for sure she's not complying properly and she's heavily drinking, using drugs and lives an erratic lifestyle, the worst things you can do for any mental illness.

I agree, that's exactly why I had thought of dual diagnosis - you don't get manic highs with BPD so that's why I still think bipolar as well - but the BPD fits in perfectly with her pushing people away before they can do that her, constant self sabotaging behaviour, the manipulativeness and we've seen from last season with her old flat mate that it's not just because she works on a show that demands that, she's behaving like that in her private life as well. And BPD is the product of a traumatic childhood which her mother provided. She also seems to have a lack of a sense of self.

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

He also doesn't have the skin tone Suitors have always had. I think he's coming across well as a Black man with his cultural background, in his somewhat elevated socioeconomic position. If he were putting on the usual Prince Charming act I think that would ring rather false (and the show is already taking a lot of liberties on other things as it is). One thing I believe this season is doing right is showing why The Bachelor franchise will probably not ever have a Black Suitor. Not on a major broadcast network like ABC, anyway.

Not making any assumptions about Rachel's intimate grooming. That said, eyes were rolling at the notion that all she needed was some good head from Coleman to "fix" her---for the moment anyway. Oh lawd help these hysterical women like Rachel, the kind for whom the vibrator was invented.

I love that piece of trivia, imagine going to the doctor and they say ok, an orgasm will fix that lol! And then give that to them in the office, hilarious especially given how repressive those times were. I've been meaning to watch the movie about it for years, I'll have to have a look for it. 

[Save Yourself]

14 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

The sticking point for me with Rachel and Bi-polar is that Rachel seems to have some control over her moods and the mania in particular. The Bi-polar people I've known do not get calmed by a pep talk the way Rachel was in this episode. Chet talked her down way about Jeremy really quickly in this episode and she agreed with him. Most Bi-polar people you might redirect them but if they want to do something they will do it. To paraphrase Lost "Mentally ill people don't think they're going insane they think they're getting saner ".Rachel seems very aware when she being manic and better at shutting it down then she should be if it was an actual chemical imbalance. I'm not saying she faking she definitely has issues I'm just not convinced it bi-polar yet.

That's true we don't have control over our moods or probably more accurately, we don't have control over the way we act out based on those moods. No one has actual control over their moods (emotions) but most people without mental illness are able to regulate their behaviour so they are not letting those emotions override their logic, particularly to the point where it's dangerous. But Rachel was not manic when Jeremy hit her, when Chet saw her the next morning she was very upset and angry but not high and she also didn't agree with him straight away. She still took the photos for evidence and seemed intent on filing a report. Later she changed her mind when Quinn put the pressure on her along with Chet. If someone is completely manic or extremely depressed it's nigh impossible to talk them out of a decision they have made. However if you or the ill person themselves catches they on the edge they can do things to prevent it happening or at least lessen the impact. When I stop sleeping, feeling 'overly' happy or irritable and my thoughts start racing I know to get to my dr asap, get a family member to be with me, take antipsychotics and tranquillisers and make sure I'm in a calm, safe environment. Often I can avoid a hypomanic episode that way but it has taken YEARS to learn the warning signs and then to actually act on them. Once I'm hypomanic though all bets are off! The same thing with the depression, if I'm having dark thoughts, not being able to get out of bed, wash, etc I get help asap. I can believe that Rachel can talk herself through some of her times of depression but I don't think (?) we've seen her snap herself out of mania. I don't think she gets actually 'manic' anyway, it is 'hypomania' so it's not as intense - but still not great!

That quote is quite silly, if that were accurate no mentally ill person would ever seek help because we wouldn't recognise there was any need to. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quoting myself in reply to comment above:

Quote

I think he's coming across well as a Black man with his cultural background, in his somewhat elevated socioeconomic position.

Nope, on re-read I meant it exactly the way I expressed it. Someone like Darius (and I don't mean simply Black) isn't going to show up acting like an Animal House-type frat boy or a Prince Charming. Someone like Darius would be very conscious of the optics of being a Black man courting multiple women, most of whom aren't Black or even women of color. There are things he won't do (or won't want to do) and ways he won't act. It's clear those cultural lines are something Rachel and Quinn don't understand and what understanding they do have, they want to exploit. Witness the whole trip to AL to try to create some kind of racial firestorm. Darius knew what was up (or likely to be up) and was uncomfortable with playing along since it could have put his life in danger. I do criticize him however for not being strong enough to stand up to them when they keep talking him into doing things that are dangerous to his life and career.

Quote

imagine going to the doctor and they say ok, an orgasm will fix that lol! And then give that to them in the office, hilarious especially given how repressive those times were.

In the movie it was hilarious how clinical they tried to make it. The women stayed fully dressed (with all those layers of clothing women of that era wore) and the doctors acted like they weren't doing anything more than massaging the patient's neck or something. I guess nowadays it would be considered prostitution? Or medical malpractice at the very least!

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 hours ago, dixiecricket said:

 Darius character - I am really not feeling his character as a whole. I don't know if it is how the character has been written, how the actor is playing him, or what but he almost seems wooden in EVERYTHING that he does. Maybe it's that his backstory isn't as developed but I don't think Adam's was either (I really can't remember). His character just seems misplaced- there is no way that a show like Everlasting would cast him as he doesn't have the personality that the Suitors typically have.

What personality do the Suitors typically have?  I have watched one Season of the Bachelor and I found the contestant - Ben - incredibly boring.  Is that preferable?

I've also watched 2 Seasons of the Bachelorette and what I find with these shows is that the Suitor usually plays the "straight man/woman" in these scenarios while the producers hope to cast the CONTESTANTS for their personalities - for maximum conflict, humour, and drama. 

Anyway, UnReal has had exactly ONE suitor before Darius.  Yes, BJ Britt / Darius is different than Freddie Stroma / Adam but I think that that's a positive thing and I think it's a great thing for the show - just as Rachel does for Everlasting.  Variety is the spice of life.

I don't find Darius wooden.  I find him reserved, cautious, and careful.  The character is a famous football player and he's on a reality show.... to me it makes sense so far.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[jhlipton]

On 7/12/2016 at 9:06 AM, TiffanyNichelle said:

Other Random Black Lady has a name and lines and a career and everything.

Her appearance was totally random, wasn't it?  I had forgotten there was a third black woman on the show.

[RCharter]

I will take Adam anyway I can get him, and for some reason after years of only lusting after clean cut men, I've come to discover that on some men, shoulder length hair can work.   

Right now, Darius is dead to me, but I was actually feeling for him as a character.  I have a cousin who looks a lot like him, and has a similar personality so that may be why.  

[Emily Thrace]

7 hours ago, Save Yourself said:

That's true we don't have control over our moods or probably more accurately, we don't have control over the way we act out based on those moods. No one has actual control over their moods (emotions) but most people without mental illness are able to regulate their behaviour so they are not letting those emotions override their logic, particularly to the point where it's dangerous. But Rachel was not manic when Jeremy hit her, when Chet saw her the next morning she was very upset and angry but not high and she also didn't agree with him straight away. She still took the photos for evidence and seemed intent on filing a report. Later she changed her mind when Quinn put the pressure on her along with Chet. If someone is completely manic or extremely depressed it's nigh impossible to talk them out of a decision they have made. However if you or the ill person themselves catches they on the edge they can do things to prevent it happening or at least lessen the impact. When I stop sleeping, feeling 'overly' happy or irritable and my thoughts start racing I know to get to my dr asap, get a family member to be with me, take antipsychotics and tranquillisers and make sure I'm in a calm, safe environment. Often I can avoid a hypomanic episode that way but it has taken YEARS to learn the warning signs and then to actually act on them. Once I'm hypomanic though all bets are off! The same thing with the depression, if I'm having dark thoughts, not being able to get out of bed, wash, etc I get help asap. I can believe that Rachel can talk herself through some of her times of depression but I don't think (?) we've seen her snap herself out of mania. I don't think she gets actually 'manic' anyway, it is 'hypomania' so it's not as intense - but still not great!

That quote is quite silly, if that were accurate no mentally ill person would ever seek help because we wouldn't recognise there was any need to. 

I get that someone who is in treatment and living with the illness would have some warning signs and how to control them  Rachel isn't though so It seems odd to me that she should have any kind of control. She is very deep in denial so the idea that she is controlling her reactions seems off. I also think it would be just like the show to be feinting and making us think Rachel is bi-polar only to say she is not later on. Also wasn't Rachel in a psychiatric faculty after her breakdown before last season? I haven't re-watched lately but I seem to remember in the episode with her mother Rachel said the doctors there said she wasn't any of the diagnoses her mother was spouting. It might have just been a 72 hour hold but it could have been a longer stay. I don't have the episode on demand otherwise I'd re-watch and check but does someone else remember that?

I've always thought there was some truth to that quote. I know when my anxiety has gotten to the point where I'm having trouble leaving the house I didn't think that was unreasonable at the the time. Schizophrenics don't see their delusions as that, they think the rest of us are missing something. Hell a I've met more than a few bi-polar people who think their diagnoses is a crock cooked up by the pharmaceutical companies. I always felt like it acknowledge that my anxieties may be exaggerated but they are real to me

[voiceover]

4 hours ago, RCharter said:

I will take Adam anyway I can get him, and for some reason after years of only lusting after clean cut men, I've come to discover that on some men, shoulder length hair can work.   

I laughed out loud at this.  Because I have a laundry list of men who've made me change my mind about heretofore "unattractive" looks..."Both ears pierced?? Eeyeeuuwww!!" (Enter Rob Thomas)..."Tattoos on your FACE?? Disgusting!!" (Enter Oded Fehr in The Mummy).

To keep on-topic, I agree about Scruffy!Adam.  Last season he looked like a Ken doll.  Now? *voiceover rethinking*