S01.E04: Monster Swamp

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Jesse makes Quincannon a bet he can't refuse; and Cassidy works to fend off the angels. Meanwhile, Tulip tries to bring justice to Annville.

[Lantern7]

Trying . . . .not to . . . compare . . . show . . . to comic. But it's tough. I mean, Jesse's dad as a preacher? Jesse himself abusing his power on Quincannon? And I don't see how Annville can serve Jesse's overall story while intact.

[Primetimer]

And other magical questions from 'Monster Swamp.'

View the full article

[peridot]

Jesse's coming off as the biggest hypocrite, he's definitely not a favorite character. 
The church lady should speak up for herself more.

This episode felt like it's spinning wheels, but next week looks like the story is finally moving.

[Sandman87]

I'm not sure whether Jesse's forced conversion of Odin at the end was awesome-cynical or just stupid. On the one hand, that's not going to save the land grabber since there's no free will involved. On the other hand, maybe Jesse figured that since the old guy was damned anyway, he might as well use him to save some of the other folks by getting him to undergo a "conversion" right there in front of all of them.

And speaking of stupid: Tulip attacking someone (Cassidy) who wasn't even involved in the paintball hunt definitely qualifies. Why couldn't she be the one to fall into an abandoned cesspool instead?

The motel that the "government men" are staying at looks like it hasn't been remodeled since about 1967.

[thuganomics85]

I didn't remember Jesse's dad in the pilot being played by Nathan Darrow.  Did they recast him?

Jesse using his powers on Odin/Jackie Earle Haley, will no doubt come back to bite him on his ass, somehow.  Not sure how, but I think even an Odin that "serves God", will still find some ways to fuck people's lives over.

Sheesh, Tulip, I get those guys were being dicks, but maybe sure you are actually attacking the right person, before you flat-out toss them out of a window.  You were lucky that it ended up being Cassidy, the immortal vampire, who is probably content with just stealing a kiss.  Then again, this town is so crazy, I'm not sure she even would have been charged if it ended up being her intended target.

I hope Emily starts getting more to do soon.  I'm really enjoying Lucy Griffiths surprisingly, but she just doesn't have much scenes yet.

So, who is going to be at the other end of that phone?

[PatternRec]

I'm not sure if Jesse is trying to use Quincannon solely to try to get more people back in the church in an attempt to live up to the image of his father, or if he has another agenda. 

[Ohwell]

Saw this for the first time last night out of curiosity.  I've never read the comics.  I already hate the Tulip woman.  I won't be back.

[SoSueMe]

Gee, I like it, it's building. I am a patient person :) Never read the comics so I guess that gives me a different outlook.

[SnarkyTart]

Still too much time spent setting the table.  Way too much time spent on the opening paintball scene.  Don't care.  By the time we get back to 1881, I'm not sure how much even that will still interest me. 

9 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Saw this for the first time last night out of curiosity.  I've never read the comics.  I already hate the Tulip woman.  I won't be back.

I get that.  I'm compelled to comment after every episode how much I detest the Tulip character. 

The main plot line that's holding my interest right now is the "angels".  I am curious to know who/what they really are and who/what is on the other end of the phone.  I did laugh when Fiore wanted that hamburger after seeing the commercial, and the show would benefit from a bit more of this kind of humor. 

I like having a balance between introducing new questions and answering existing ones as a story unfolds, which is something I'm not getting from this show.  The only answer in this episode was that Cassidy isn't really planning to hand Jesse over to the angels.  Why is this unsatisfied confusion starting to remind me a little too much of LOST?  That can't be good.

So, yeah, even though I'm still interested in 1881 and the two angels, we're probably going to get some more boring Tulip scenes next week instead.  The writers seem more invested in making me dislike Tulip than they are in advancing the story. 

[nachomama]

What religion is this supposed to be anyway? My experience with west Texas is southern baptists. They ain't that. Not Catholic. Is Lutheran the "Catholic lite?" 

I adore Cassidy the way I adored Callum Blue on Dead Like Me. 

[La Tortuga]

I thought Jesse's conversation with Odin in his office was the most interesting part of the show. I'm a formerly religious person who is now an atheist, and in spite of knowing the show takes place in a world where Heaven is a real place, I still thought Odin's argument was spot on. Jesse doesn't actually know where his power comes from or whether it's at all related to the rest of his dogmatic assumptions about judgment and hell. He's just afraid that if this one heavenly power is real, then so is everything else, and he's in for some serious hellfire if he doesn't take the opportunity to make up for his awful sins somehow. He's not trying to save the town solely because he loves the people in it; those people are the means for him to secure his own forgiveness. I was impressed that Odin was able to see through Jesse's rhetoric and call him on his bullshit a little bit.

I have to say, I'm looking forward to watching Jesse wrestle with the ethical dilemma of forcing Quincannon onto a religious path that has nothing to do with Quincannon's faith or lack thereof. Odin was right: forcing it isn't Christian in the sense that it's not a Christian principle. Although, I guess it is a Christian thing to do in the sense that historically, Christians forced their religion on non-Christian people as justification for the seizure of their resources and labor.

[La Tortuga]

I was also interested in the question of when the show takes place. The dilapidated storefronts and old cars coexisting with modern personal technology, combined with the mayor's concerns about declining tax revenues, suggests the timeline is recent but the town is stagnant. Nobody can afford to upgrade their businesses, and even if they could, the town is too far from the interstate to become a bustling center of commerce, so why bother?

However, the Houston skyline from the previous episode was missing a few of the newer buildings, suggesting that this show isn't totally current but could easily take place up to five or six years in the past.

[nachomama]

I was wondering timeline too. 4K tv was the raffle prize. That's recent. But mayor dude playing Qbert, mid 80's. Fashion and cars don't really hint. 

[Snookums]

Quote

Not sure how, but I think even an Odin that "serves God", will still find some ways to fuck people's lives over.

Since he's named after the Allfather, I sense a Wild Hunt coming up. That involves more than women in their underwear.

Sometimes I think this show is a little too much show and not enough tell. I mean, I guess Jesse and Quincannon have a longstanding relationship of some kind, even though up until that scene in his office there wasn't a shred of a hint that they'd ever even met? The bus driver is cruising through town for no reason but whoops, watch out for the Night Paintball Hooker Chase? Whats Her Name, the church lady, is banging the mayor whom she clearly holds in somewhat pitying contempt? Tulip grew up in the whorehouse? 

I get you want some mystery; what's up with the two angels, Cassidy's determined pursuers, that cowboy dude from 1886. I understand whetting the appetite. But it's something else again to serve a scoop of chocolate chip ice cream, then three french fries, then steak tartare, then a single potato chip, then a glass of grapefruit juice. Nothing seems to be related organically to anything else. Even Jesse's journey is random and jerky, like one of those stutter-step ghosts they use all the time in Supernatural trying to drive a 1929 flivver.

On the up side, the two angels, especially Fiore, are a friggin' hoot. He's got that "this human suit is itchy" awkward handling of every day reality down cold. And how that reality, like the hamburger commercial, is to him as the Voice is to regular humans--he hears and tries to obey in the literal sense but he has absolutely no context. 

Other plus is the soundtrack. Every single episode so far has had  truly fabulous and well used music--I hope they release it soon.

[SnarkyTart]

11 hours ago, Snookums said:

Other plus is the soundtrack. Every single episode so far has had  truly fabulous and well used music--I hope they release it soon.

I wish I wrote that post.  Hell, I wish I could write that post.  A+!

I agree with you about the soundtrack, too.  :-)

[Bruinsfan]

21 hours ago, nachomama said:

What religion is this supposed to be anyway? My experience with west Texas is southern baptists. They ain't that. Not Catholic. Is Lutheran the "Catholic lite?"

I've not been to ANY Protestant church where the sermons include that "May the Lord be with you/And you as well" exchange. That sounds strictly Catholic to me. (I wonder if the Anglican Church might have retained that part of the liturgy, but then it's pretty clear this isn't an Episcopal congregation either.) Reinforces my impression that the writers are Catholics or former Catholics without any idea of what southern Protestant churches are like.

[Sandman87]

It's the Generic Christian Church of Hollywood. I stopped expecting accurate depictions of religion in television and movies a long time ago.

 

On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 10:22 PM, thuganomics85 said:

 Not sure how, but I think even an Odin that "serves God", will still find some ways to fuck people's lives over.

Good catch. I imagine that he'll keep on doing most of the evil things he's done in the past, but now he'll be donating most/all of the proceeds to the church. Maybe he'll even come up with some new misbehavior; "You didn't attend church on Sunday, so I'm evicting you."

Edited June 22, 2016 by Sandman87

[La Tortuga]

4 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I've not been to ANY Protestant church where the sermons include that "May the Lord be with you/And you as well" exchange. That sounds strictly Catholic to me. (I wonder if the Anglican Church might have retained that part of the liturgy, but then it's pretty clear this isn't an Episcopal congregation either.) Reinforces my impression that the writers are Catholics or former Catholics without any idea of what southern Protestant churches are like.

The show creators, Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg, are Jewish. If you listen to the commentary during the chainsaw battle scene, Seth mentions that they weren't allowed to show someone beaten to death with a bible on TV, so they had to use hymnals, even though they didn't actually know what hymnals are. I'm guessing they don't know all the nuances and variations from one denomination to the next, so they just cobbled together a bunch of bits and pieces of Christianity for the church scenes without understanding that these things don't all belong together.

[nachomama]

1 hour ago, La Tortuga said:

The show creators, Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg, are Jewish. If you listen to the commentary during the chainsaw battle scene, Seth mentions that they weren't allowed to show someone beaten to death with a bible on TV, so they had to use hymnals, even though they didn't actually know what hymnals are. I'm guessing they don't know all the nuances and variations from one denomination to the next, so they just cobbled together a bunch of bits and pieces of Christianity for the church scenes without understanding that these things don't all belong together.

That seems weird, I'm not a doctor but if I produced a doctor show I wouldn't just make up Doctor Mumbo jumbo I'd get a consultant. Ultimately doesn't matter because whatever is inside Jesse isn't a rule follower and Cassidy for sure doesn't fit the norm for vampires either. Just wasn't sure if I was missing something that was obvious to everyone else. 

[Bruinsfan]

I don't mind the actual supernatural stuff being its own unique interpretation, since in my experience vampires, angels, and mind-controlling heavenly sea anemones don't actually exist and the specific details are pretty much up to the tale teller's discretion. But Our Lady of the OK Corral Squirrel Revival offends me as shoddy, careless writing (despite my not being religious) and breaks my immersion in the setting.

[SnarkyTart]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 10:22 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Not sure how, but I think even an Odin that "serves God", will still find some ways to fuck people's lives over.

As I think more about this, and knowing how Jesse's command voice leads to literal results, what comes to mind is the famous Twilight Zone episode where the aliens' book, "To Serve Man", turned out to be...a cook book. Quinncannon is already in the slaughterhouse business.  So.

[Captanne]

I really enjoy this show -- on a cartoon level.  My only issue with what they are trying to sell me is that I don't see a single spark of chemistry between the mincing organ player single mom and the Preacher.  OMG, they are the Anti-Chemistry.  I actually laughed out loud at the "almost kiss" in the kitchen.  Zero chemistry rating and they are trying to play it up as heat.  Aw, poor actors.  I feel for them.  I do.  But, please stop trying.

[pezgirl7]

Hmm, I don't really see it as them trying to sell it. The woman obviously likes Jesse, and that comes through loud and clear, but Jesse is oblivious to her feelings and doesn't seem to reciprocate them at all. I think that comes through very clearly. Maybe the show is leading up to them getting together, but if it happens, it would come out of left field for me, because Jesse hasn't shown any interest.

What I thought was interesting was Cassidy and Tulip's kiss. Was Cassidy just playing around when he asked for the kiss? He seemed a bit smitten afterwards. Not sure if that is going to turn into anything.

[Captanne]

No interest except that big "moment" in the kitchen where the two of them "almost kissed" cliche.

Which, you're right, generated ~no~ interest.  LOL

[pezgirl7]

LOL Yea, I guess that could be interpreted as the show trying to sell them as a potential couple. I just saw it as proof that Jesse has no interest in Emily. I finally had to google the character's name, it's so unforgettable! It'd be great if the show was teasing us, but actually never follows through on them becoming a couple. Plot twist! :P

[Snookums]

Totally agree, nachomama. I didn't grow up Jewish, so it's not like I could get all the details of a Jewish religious service right in a cold script write. But I also would not shrug my shoulders and go eh, who needs research? I'll just kinda bung some half remembered crap in there based on asking my secretary uncomfortable questions about what it was like attending her bat mitzvah. 

It's not like information on Christianity/Baptists isn't literally available all over the world! That a three minute Wikipedia skim could outline enough not to be egregiously embarrassing! For our high profile, high-concept, high budget show BASED ON A CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW and a graphic novel series we profess to adore! Or that we've made at least two major-release comedies based on Revelation or interfaith marriage!

Really, really lazy and considering the entire center of the plot is ABOUT A CHRISTIAN PREACHER it's also bizarre and inexcusable.

[Captanne]

Hmm.  I'm a church-going Episcopalian and we do say, "[minister]  May the Lord be with you.  [people]  And with thy spirit."  (Some places say "[people] And also with you."  

It's the opening statement for the Eucharist service in the Book of Common Prayer (originally commissioned by Elizabeth I, if I recall correctly.)  (See BCP p. 333 or 334.)

The only thing I've seen so far that didn't make Episcopalian sense was the "confession" scene because .... WAY no.  No.  We don't do that.  

[PatternRec]

Growing up I went to both Methodist and Lutheran services and both churches did the "may god be with you" call and return. I also suspect that the generic quality of the church is less about a lack of knowledge and more about not wanting to piss off a particular denomination. 

 

edit: on the topic of people "confessing," a quick google search reveals that Protestant pastors respect the confidentiality of what's told them in private, so I don't think any of what they've shown is too far outside the realm of mainstream Protestantism.

Edited June 22, 2016 by PatternRec

[Captanne]

Right -- there was no confessional box or anything.  I've forgotten, did we get the "forgive me father, for I have sinned" litany?  Because, again, no.  Respect, yes.  Formalized structure, no.

[queenanne]

Yeah, I would assume that Rogen was making a joke which, translated, meant "we don't actually know what hymnals are, in any way that matters to us as people with an inherent sense of symbols and personal history".  I cannot believe they wouldn't look in a dictionary to read "a collection of religious songs meant for use in a church service".

That said, I think I'm about ready to take this season pass off the DVR.

Edited June 26, 2016 by queenanne

[wayne67]

And I'm done. 

Tulip tried to kill a guy because he was being a loud mouthed asshole with zero concern until she found out it was the wrong guy and Jesse mind raped a guy just to get more butts in the pews. Two of the main characters and I hate them both now.

I want to watch for Cassidy but the other two are doing my head in. 

[Mojeaux]

I’m backed up on my watching, so I just saw this episode last night.

I must be incredibly patient or weird, but I’m totally down with this show even though I haven’t read the books. I’m patient with table-setting, I haven’t lost a thread yet (although when Quincannon was introduced a while back, I was scratching my head but then I saw his fab midcentury modern office), and Tulip hasn’t annoyed me too much yet. (I doubt I could hate any character as much as I hated Juliette).

I like anti-heroes, even if they are a cliche, so neither Jesse’s nor Tulip’s supreme douchebaggery bothers me.

I can’t understand half of what Cassidy says, either, but I’m not sure it’s necessary.

Re Emily’s crush on Jesse: That almost-kiss was painful to watch. He’s clueless. She’s hopeless. I almost started crying FOR her. Oh, honey, you’re not 15 anymore. I know it hurts.

What I like MOST about this is it’s bizarre. The things everyone doesn’t like, I do. Someone in a different thread said the 1881 opening sequence was very Tarantino-esque and I agree and I love me some Tarantino. As I said, I’m very patient and I love shaggy-dog stories.

[Norasuke]

Quincannon's computer, or at least the one he was playing Q*bert on, was a Commodore 64, introduced in 1982 (and fairly dead in the U.S. by 1989).  Talk about a blast from the past!

[TC3200]

I'm really enjoying this show, even if I don't know what's going on.    I just drift along, and read the Internet discussions and wikis to figure out what I just saw.   LOL     The kitchen scene with the fire was hilariously well-played.  So deadpan.   Everyone present was lying to Eugene's dad.

Edited July 13, 2016 by TC3200

[Ubiquitous]

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 5:01 PM, Bruinsfan said:

I've not been to ANY Protestant church where the sermons include that "May the Lord be with you/And you as well" exchange. That sounds strictly Catholic to me. (I wonder if the Anglican Church might have retained that part of the liturgy, but then it's pretty clear this isn't an Episcopal congregation either.) Reinforces my impression that the writers are Catholics or former Catholics without any idea of what southern Protestant churches are like.

I remember our Lutheran church doing that, but I always assume these things are Hollywood Protestants.

OK, so who won the big-ass TV set?

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 2:49 AM, SnarkyTart said:

As I think more about this, and knowing how Jesse's command voice leads to literal results, what comes to mind is the famous Twilight Zone episode where the aliens' book, "To Serve Man", turned out to be...a cook book. Quinncannon is already in the slaughterhouse business.  So.

Heh. That's where I went when I thought "how could Jessie's command be taken literally?".

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 10:27 AM, Norasuke said:

Quincannon's computer, or at least the one he was playing Q*bert on, was a Commodore 64, introduced in 1982 (and fairly dead in the U.S. by 1989).  Talk about a blast from the past!

Yeah, I assumed Quincannon was old fashioned and liked the old fashioned vidgames.