Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Oscirus]

Sam is still nights watch. He can't be the lord of anything.

8 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I don't know who is more idiotic at this point, Jon, Tyrion, or Varys. I am going with Jon as the least idiotic of the bunch because he doesn't know Cersei so he naively believes that she can be reasoned with. There is no excuse for Tyrion and Varys. They are now being written as dummies.

Which is why they're going to Jaime not to Cersei. They know it's a long shot but it's better to try given the threat that's coming.

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Sam is still nights watch. He can't be the lord of anything.

Is the NW going to still exist after all is said and done? 

Edited August 8, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Oscirus]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

Is the NW going to still exist after all is said and done? 

It has to. It would be downright idiotic not to have an army protecting you against the unknown once you know the unknown exists.  It'll probably be supplemented better but I'd imagine that it will still be around by the end.

[SimoneS]

9 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Which is why they're going to Jaime not to Cersei. They know it's a long shot but it's better to try given the threat that's coming.

Isn't a long shot, it is a no shot. And they are actually going to King's Landing too. Dumbasses the lot.

 

6 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Is the NW going to still exist after all is said and done? 

I am pretty confident that there isn't going to be a NW or a Wall by the end of the story. Jon will be king and Sam will be either in his small council or lord of Highgarden or even both.

Edited August 8, 2017 by SimoneS

[GrailKing]

31 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Her using dogs to kill Ramsey was doing it the Stark way. Her passing the sentence and watching  Arya do it is not at all the stark way since she only performs half the quote in that sense.

Swinging the sword can be done in many ways and still adhere to the Stark's words.

Her sword is the trial, anyone can physically swing the sword as long as she looks them in the face and listen to his / their final words.

A person doesn't have to physically swing it themselves, especially if they can't handle a blade. 

[Oscirus]

6 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Isn't a long shot, it is a no shot. And they are actually going to King's Landing too. Dumbasses the lot.

No stupidity is going over the wall to catch a white walker to prove it to Cersei and losing a dragon and the wall in the process. Just talking is fine. I also  imagine that Tyrion is more than happy to talk to his brother either way.

 

6 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Swinging the sword can be done in many ways and still adhere to the Stark's words.

Her sword is the trial, anyone can physically swing the sword as long as she looks them in the face and listen to his / their final words.

A person doesn't have to physically swing it themselves, especially if they can't handle a blade

Passing the sentence is just passing the sentence, it's not swinging the sword,ever.  Sansa not doing something the Stark way isn't good or bad, it's just is the way it is.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Oscirus

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

At Winterfell Sansa is in charge, "chaos is a ladder", here comes LF w/ his ally Yohn Royce trying to take advantage of the situation.

I said before, that Sansa's arc in the Vale needs to merge in WF, I stated she need to find LF, ally ( thinking the Maester ), Royce could also work, unless like Lyn Cobray he's double dealing behind LF back.

What I read was Royce told him to FO.

[Eyes High]

Just now, GrailKing said:

What I read was Royce told him to FO.

Yes, that was a fake spoiler from someone on /Freefolk who claimed to have seen 7x02.

In the show, Royce hates LF and wants him gone, but Royce could be just as mad about Jon's prolonged absence as the Northern lords seem to be, I suppose, which LF would be eager to exploit.

[GrailKing]

What I understand about the leaks so far; they are very close, but totally miss the nuances of the scenes.

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

Yes, that was a fake spoiler from someone on /Freefolk who claimed to have seen 7x02.

In the show, Royce hates LF and wants him gone, but Royce could be just as mad about Jon's prolonged absence as the Northern lords seem to be, I suppose, which LF would be eager to exploit.

Yeah, ok, couldn't remember where, but yup, I read that one too, didn't save it though, I saved 4-5 and I think 7.

[GrailKing]

If Royce is with LF, how will Sansa play him ?

She can't threaten him with anything, unless Bran is involved, or maybe Arya ?

Then she takes protective custody of SR ?

[SimoneS]

13 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

No stupidity is going over the wall to catch a white walker to prove it to Cersei and losing a dragon and the wall in the process. Just talking is fine. I also  imagine that Tyrion is more than happy to talk to his brother either way.

I consider both actions to be stupid as hell although the "capture the wight" is the worse of the two. How does a dwarf on the most wanted list expect to sneak into King's Landing? And again, the Lannisters cannot have that many men left so it isn't like they have anything substantial to contribute to the fighting the NK. I wonder what Daenerys thinks of all of this?

[shireenbamfatheon]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

The children may already want vengeance for their parents' deaths. Taking away their power deprives them of the most ready means of achieving that.  It's not unnecessary or cruel to say you don't want banner houses with that sort of cloud hanging over them.  Westerosi and real-world history offers plenty of examples where retaining a defeated rival just gives them the chance to stab you in the back again later.

I'm not speaking to how the writers view it, since they've made a habit of presenting only one side of a multi-faceted case.  Discussed objectively, neither position is incorrect (and I say that as someone who thinks TV Sansa's stance is the exact opposite of what Book Sansa would do).

2

A similar situation is also brought up in the books.

"Lord Karstark's heir was at Harrenhal as well," Ser Brynden reminded him. "The eldest son, the one the Lannisters took captive on the Green Fork."
"Harrion. His name is Harrion." Robb laughed bitterly. "A king had best know the names of his enemies, don't you think?"
The Blackfish looked at him shrewdly. "You know that for a certainty? That this will make young Karstark your enemy?"
"What else would he be? I am about to kill his father, he's not like to thank me."
"He might. There are sons who hate their fathers, and in a stroke you will make him Lord of Karhold."
Robb shook his head. "Even if Harrion were that sort, he could never openly forgive his father's killer. His own men would turn on him. These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers."

  And sure enough, the Karstarks turn on House Stark. Alys Karstark's father and grandfather were both killed by Starks. The odds of those kids growing up with good thoughts of the Starks are slim to none. But this will likely never be touched upon in the show again and was meant to show us that Jon is a revolutionary, because letting the wildlings pass the Wall wasn't enough. 

[Katsullivan]

6 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

A similar situation is also brought up in the books.

"Lord Karstark's heir was at Harrenhal as well," Ser Brynden reminded him. "The eldest son, the one the Lannisters took captive on the Green Fork."
"Harrion. His name is Harrion." Robb laughed bitterly. "A king had best know the names of his enemies, don't you think?"
The Blackfish looked at him shrewdly. "You know that for a certainty? That this will make young Karstark your enemy?"
"What else would he be? I am about to kill his father, he's not like to thank me."
"He might. There are sons who hate their fathers, and in a stroke you will make him Lord of Karhold."
Robb shook his head. "Even if Harrion were that sort, he could never openly forgive his father's killer. His own men would turn on him. These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers."

  And sure enough, the Karstarks turn on House Stark. Alys Karstark's father and grandfather were both killed by Starks. The odds of those kids growing up with good thoughts of the Starks are slim to none. But this will likely never be touched upon in the show again and was meant to show us that Jon is a revolutionary, because letting the wildlings pass the Wall wasn't enough. 

What this proves is that Robb knew that he was about to start a blood feud by killing Lord Karstark and he still went ahead to do so.

Jon did the opposite. 

As you highlighted, Harrior Karstark could not openly forgive his father's killer. Well now that old Lord Karstark, and his son and whichever Lord Karstark was in the Bolton army are dead - and Robb Stark is dead - perhaps the blood feud has finally ended. 

The only thing Sansa's decision would have done was to extend that blood feud. Jon sued for peace which is always the smart thing to do in this situation because someone has to break the cycle. It's either that or the Starks should take it upon themselves to completely annihilate the House of Karstark. 

If Robb had done the same - sued for peace - the blood feud would never have started in the first place. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Katsullivan

[scottiB]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Isn't a long shot, it is a no shot. And they are actually going to King's Landing too. Dumbasses the lot.

I don't disagree with you, but, from a plot perspective, the reason to go to KL (oblivious to the characters) is to get Gendry, plop him at WF and learn how to make Valyrian steel swords from Sam's books stolen from the Citadel. Have a feeling that the beginning of S8 has all the avengers meeting at Tony Stark's apartment at Winterfell and planning.

[shireenbamfatheon]

Just now, Katsullivan said:

What this proves is that Robb knew that he was about to start a blood feud by killing Lord Karstark and he still went ahead to do so.

Jon did the opposite. 

As you highlighted, Harrior Karstark could not openly forgive his father's killer. Well now that old Lord Karstark, and his son and whichever Lord Karstark was in the Bolton army are dead - and Robb Stark is dead - perhaps the blood feud has finally ended. 

The only thing Sansa's decision would have done was to extend that blood feud. Jon sued for peace which is always the smart thing to do in this situation.

If Robb had done the same, the blood feud would never have started in the first place. 

A feud Rickard started by going against Robb and killing prisoners, just like the Umbers crossed a line by giving over Rickon, their liege lord and a guest, to Ramsay. Rickard was killed for betraying his lord like Lord Karstark and Lord Umber were, and Rickard's son still held it against Robb and not his own father, because that's usually how families work. Dany knows her father is crazy, but that doesn't stop her from hating Jaime. 

By giving away the castles to loyalists, Ned and Alys would have lost the power to continue the blood feud. By allowing them to keep their power, realistically, it'd have negative consequences for House Stark down the road, since these are two most powerful Houses, and most of House Stark's power derives from their alliance with House Arryn. The fathers are dead, the children are alive and not likely to forget, just like with Rickard and Harrion. If Joffrey had allowed Arya and Sansa to go home and keep their castle at the end of season one, I don't think there'd be any doubt that House Stark would remember what was done to them, even though Joffrey believed he was in the right because he didn't know he was a bastard. But there's not enough time to delve into it so nothing will come of it in the show.

[scottiB]

Quote

10 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

By allowing them to keep their power, realistically, it'd have negative consequences for House Stark down the road, since these are two most powerful Houses...

 

Since the Umber and Karstark's castles are the first to get attacked by wights when they breakthrough the Wall, as Jon mentioned in ep 1, I doubt they'll be much of a problem, except when little Ned and Alys arise from the dead.

[glowbug]

Those hackers are stupid. Game of Thrones is a spoiler-proof show, meaning people will still watch it even if spoilers exist. It's based on a book series so the plot for the first four seasons was always available for anyone who wanted to know what was going to happen. Sure, there were changes made but the big stuff (most of the major deaths and events) were already out there. Neither the show runners nor the network should really care about leaks. The leaks for season 7 haven't hurt the ratings any and it just created more hype for those of us who wanted to to be spoiled. It kept us talking about the show during the very long hiatus. I hope we get some good spoilers for season 8 too. 

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

It has to. It would be downright idiotic not to have an army protecting you against the unknown once you know the unknown exists.  It'll probably be supplemented better but I'd imagine that it will still be around by the end.

That assumes that the Night King will still be around after this.

There's also the fact that, frankly, the Night's Watch was an abysmal failure at its stated mission.  In book canon, the Others returned twice (the original Night's King episode, which doesn't appear to fit into the show canon based on how they changed what the Night King is, and now) and both times the Watch was completely ineffective.  Any evaluation of whether the Watch ended up being worth the enormous investment would have to say the answer is no.  To the extent that the White Walkers encountered trouble, it was from the Wall itself, not the people manning it.

If not for the existence of the Wildlings, the Watch wouldn't even have had anything to do over the past millennia, and the Wildlings live south of the Wall now.

From FrikiDoctor's spoilers:

Quote

Jamie has to tell Cersei that he met Tyrion. She's not gonna be happy about it (even if she knows Tyron is not responsible for Joffrey's death.). Jamie will "plead entrapment" (he was set up by Bronn). Poor Bronn will find himself unexpectedly guilty.

Wow, Jaime's gratitude to Bronn for saving his dumb ass is overwhelming.

[YaddaYadda]

13 minutes ago, SeanC said:

That assumes that the Night King will still be around after this.

There's also the fact that, frankly, the Night's Watch was an abysmal failure at its stated mission.  In book canon, the Others returned twice (the original Night's King episode, which doesn't appear to fit into the show canon based on how they changed what the Night King is, and now) and both times the Watch was completely ineffective.  Any evaluation of whether the Watch ended up being worth the enormous investment would have to say the answer is no.  To the extent that the White Walkers encountered trouble, it was from the Wall itself, not the people manning it.

If not for the existence of the Wildlings, the Watch wouldn't even have had anything to do over the past millennia, and the Wildlings live south of the Wall now.

That's not mentioning that the original oath seems to have changed and now includes the take no wives, wear no crowns parts because of that particular event at the Nightfort.

[GrailKing]

28 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Wow, Jaime's gratitude to Bronn for saving his dumb ass is overwhelming.

What a child, and a whipped one at that. if be true. 

[Francie]

So, here's part of how I think the final 3 episodes this season plays out. 

Jaime will survive the attack. I think Bronn and he wash up on the other bank of the Blackwater Rush. I think Tyrion sees him, and Dany is too preoccupied with getting every man, horse, plant, and tree trunk to bed their knees to notice. 

I think that Cersei is dismissive of Jaime. Jaime tells her that Olenna confessed to killing Joffrey, and that Sansa and Tyrion had nothing to do with it. I think Cersei is going to be all "so what," and she'll smugly say that she just used part of her new line of credit with the Iron Bank to send a faceless assassin after Sansa.  I think the assassin will fail -- courtesy of Arya.  Or, Alys Karstark -- who looks a lot like Sansa -- will be killed in a case of mistaken identity.  And I think Arya will be all "hell to the no" and storm off after Cersei to round out Season 7.  So I think Cersei survives the season. 

And the crack pot part of my theory:

The faceless assassin sent to kill Sansa will be Jaqen H'Ghar. And when Arya intercepts him and is about to kill him, he'll pull out Syrio's voice in a plea to save his life.  It won't help him. 

I also think that Tyrion, having seen Bronn and Jaime,  will take advantage of the situation.  He'll someone get someone over to KL to offer Bronn money to switch sides and to lure Jaime into a trap.  Bronn will get his promise of a castle, and he'll agree. 

[Eyes High]

10 minutes ago, Francie said:

So, here's part of how I think the final 3 episodes this season plays out. 

Jaime will survive the attack. I think Bronn and he wash up on the other bank of the Blackwater Rush. I think Tyrion sees him, and Dany is too preoccupied with getting every man, horse, plant, and tree trunk to bed their knees to notice. 

I think that Cersei is dismissive of Jaime. Jaime tells her that Olenna confessed to killing Joffrey, and that Sansa and Tyrion had nothing to do with it. I think Cersei is going to be all "so what," and she'll smugly say that she just used part of her new line of credit with the Iron Bank to send a faceless assassin after Sansa. 

We already know how the final three episodes play out, thanks to leaks, and we know that there's no assassin in Season 7. The show has made much out of Cersei wanting Sansa dead, though, so Cersei sending an assassin after Sansa could factor into Season 8 in some way. I'm wondering, though, whether TV Cersei would be satisfied with merely killing Sansa after getting a taste of doling out much crueler punishments in person to Ellaria and Tyene. She might be looking to get her hands on Sansa to torture, not just looking for an assassin to take Sansa out quickly. Book Cersei wanted to torture Sansa before killing her as well.

[SeanC]

22 minutes ago, doram said:

I thought the money was for the Second Sons?

No, the Golden Company.

[CherryMalotte]

Quote

I thought the money was for the Second Sons?

The Golden Company.

ETA - Score for SeanC!  I had typed and walked away for a sec without reading the new post.  Great minds...blah blah blah.

Oddly enough, I don't see Cersei contracting to have a random or not so random assassin go after Sansa.  

Edited August 8, 2017 by CherryMalotte

[Minneapple]

9 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

What is beyond the pale about Sansa is that she's advocating for the same kind of exile that was inflicted on her when she was held prisoner in King's Landing and couldn't return to Winterfell. She is asking that these children be punished for their fathers's disloyalty, the same way that Joffrey and Cersei punished her for Ned and Robb.

Well, it makes sense that Sansa would do that since she has learned a bit from Cersei. Jon even noted that Sansa sounded like she admired Cersei. And it's always been my theory that Sansa would turn out to be a mini-Cersei. 

2 hours ago, glowbug said:

Those hackers are stupid. Game of Thrones is a spoiler-proof show, meaning people will still watch it even if spoilers exist. It's based on a book series so the plot for the first four seasons was always available for anyone who wanted to know what was going to happen. Sure, there were changes made but the big stuff (most of the major deaths and events) were already out there. Neither the show runners nor the network should really care about leaks. The leaks for season 7 haven't hurt the ratings any and it just created more hype for those of us who wanted to to be spoiled. It kept us talking about the show during the very long hiatus. I hope we get some good spoilers for season 8 too. 

They're saying 7x04, which leaked Friday, was the highest-rated episode of the show ever -- 10.2 million viewers. I was one of those because I watched on my phone and thought to myself, "this is an episode that needs to be seen in glorious 60-inch, 4K ultra HD, not on a crummy little phone screen."

[magdalene]

I just saw a depressing spoiler on youtube that Cersei is pregnant.  I so hope that's a foiler. I don't see how Jaime will ever get free of her if she is.

[GrailKing]

Speculation question:

Hopefully I'm remembering correctly.

In the books gold coins were found in the black cells and I think they were Tyrell coins, the kicker is; it wasn't the same value as the Realms gold, so could QOT last prickly act be that the IB will be getting short changed by Cersei without her knowledge?

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, doram said:

Served him right.

Yep. After the last episode, I am over Jaime. I have given up on him ever becoming a better person and being good enough to at least like Brienne's boots.

[GrailKing]

50 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I just saw a depressing spoiler on youtube that Cersei is pregnant.  I so hope that's a foiler. I don't see how Jaime will ever get free of her if she is.

Been out for a while, the leak was in reddit.

Hope she bites it , but she'll probably go nuttier and blame Sansa so sends the Mountain after her.

[Moxie Cat]

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Then we have a conversation between Tyrion and Varys where they worry about Daenerys' cruelty.

A number of posters upthread are positive that that discussion in the preview is about Cersei. Uh, no. And it's pretty dumb on Vary's part, particularly, given Dany's threat about going behind her back like 2 episodes ago.

And so what if Dany isn't perfect? Neither is Jon. If you support them ruling together, they should complement each other and blunt each other's weaknesses. Balance, ice and fire.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

A number of posters upthread are positive that that discussion in the preview is about Cersei. Uh, no. And it's pretty dumb on Vary's part, particularly, given Dany's threat about going behind her back like 2 episodes ago.

And so what if Dany isn't perfect? Neither is Jon. If you support them ruling together, they should complement each other and blunt each other's weaknesses. Balance, ice and fire.

I agree, there is just no way that Varys would be counseling Tyrion to find a way to make Cersei listen because Varys isn't a complete idiot.  He wouldn't send Tyrion into a room with Cersei to try to come to an understanding because he knows how Cersei feels about Tyrion.  If that conversation was about Cersei, it would be about how they have to get Jamie to convince Cersei of whatever.

Nope, this is about Dany.  I would bet, despite spoilers, that the conversation is more about the fact that Dany is taking her own and Jon's counsel over Varys and Tryion's counsel being the bigger issue than burning up Tarlys. 

[SeanC]

When you consider that Varys was planning on bringing in a Dothraki invasion to install Viserys on the throne, the sudden wailing about excessive force on the part of Daenerys is kind of hilarious.

[Oscirus]

8 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

A number of posters upthread are positive that that discussion in the preview is about Cersei.

Problem is the spoilers and Tyrion's trip to King's landing says that's exactly what the discussion is about.

9 hours ago, magdalene said:

I just saw a depressing spoiler on youtube that Cersei is pregnant.  I so hope that's a foiler. I don't see how Jaime will ever get free of her if she is.

As of right now, all it is is a Tyrion theory. It's probably true but he has been wrong about things before.

12 hours ago, Francie said:

I think Cersei is going to be all "so what," and she'll smugly say that she just used part of her new line of credit with the Iron Bank to send a faceless assassin after Sansa.

Once her engagement to Joffrey was broken, in Cersei's mind, she ceased to be the young queen from the prophecy, so she no longer poses a threat to Cersei. Now that she has confirmation that Sansa has nothing to do with Joffrey's murder, I doubt that Cersei would waste any more time thinking about her or any more money trying to kill her.

[Edith]

More information from Frikidoctor 

About Rhaegar actor: "Same hair color, same hair style, same hair lenght, more mature looking than Viserys, thicker eyebrows"

Episode 5: "Let me be specific this time: What you are seeing on that frame is Jaime's point of view. He is about to enter that room to talk to Cersei. Qyburn is telling her something in wispers, and you will not hear what he is saying. Jaime can't hear it either, and Cersei will not talk about it. All that has been cut as I said in my videos. So Cersei's pregnancy is never mentioned. In chapter seven Tyrion will find out because she rubs her belly and she is not drinking wine. And that is all. No miscarriage. No waking up covered in blood. No Qyburn saying "My queen, you are pregnant". No Cersei telling Jaime "We are going to have a valonqar ?"

Well, you will see that they arrive to Eastwatch at the end of episode 5, and they have several scenes with Tormund, Beric, The Hound and Thoros. You will also see how the gate at Eastwatch opens and they get to the other side of the Wall. Acording to the original leaks, that was supposed to happen in episode 6, so those are the scenes you are missing"

Episode 6: "That is correct. First, the wight bear encounter, then, they ambush a small group of wights lead by a white walker. They capture the wight there, and after that, the big army comes after them. Gendry runs to eastwatch there, but leaves his hammer behind. The Hound takes it, and they get stuck on the lake, floating over ice. They spend the night there...

that's not Gendry. That is the Hound. Gendry will leave his war hammer behind and the Hound will use it. But, hey! Don't take my word for it.

You will see the Hound using that hammer, and he has really clever moves, like using it to break the ice under the feet of some wights so they sink in the frozen lake"

 

When he did the video for episode 6, he mentioned that when Jon kills the WW all the other wights die. I thought he was theorizing and didn't translate it but according to Friki this actually happens. So for season 8 if someone kills the NK, the rest will die.

Except the wight they caught! Because plot reasons...

"Thanks for the translation. I just want to say that I do talk about the moment when they capture the wight. With detail. After they encounter the polar bear they find a small group of wights and one white walker. I even joke about that the walker looks like the one killed by Jon in Hardhome. I even posted the screen capture. Jon fights the walker while the rest try to catch a wight. They catch one, they tie the it, the wight screams for help and alerts the rest of the army. What do they do to avoid getting bitten? They put a bag over the wight's head.

But that is not important for the plot. The most important thing is the theory I talk about in the video. I call it the beehive mind theory... All you have to do to kill all the wights is killing the Night King. Every walker controls a small group of wights, when the walker dies, the group of wights he has under control die to. It may sound odd and absurd, but I think that you will see a hint of that in chapter six. Has it been lost in translation? Yes, it has.

And yes, I said that Arya has human faces in her bag, and yes, Sansa finds then and she is shocked, and Arya plays with Sansa a weird game about telling the truth because she wants to know Sansa's opinion about Jon and Cersei. It may be an absurd theory, but who knows, it may end being true.

More things I say: Tormund and The Hound talk about Brienne, and about the Hound being kissed by fire. Jon talks with Beric about dying and coming back.

There are much more details. About Jon, about how Viserion is reanimated... The video is more than 30 minutes long.

About Daenerys and Jon in the boat: You have the script page and you may think that there are a lot of blanks to be filled after that, but there are not.

About the impossibility of Gendry running back to Eastwatch, sending a Raven, alerting Daenerys and she finding the group to save the day... Sorry, it will happen in a few hours. Overnight, and maybe some hours more. Do I talk about that in the video?: Yes I do..."

 

Episode 7: "Euron basically screams at Theon, telling him to go and get Yara, because he has her. That gies on until Cersei tells Euron to shut up, because the have more important things to attend"

Edited August 9, 2017 by Edith

[GrailKing]

@Edith

Is this up on Reddit; the whole translation ?

for those on costume speculations : LF ain't getting into Sansa if Michelle Clapton has a say LOL

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/michele-clapton-on-costuming-the-reunited-stark-children

“All the characters’ costumes are a consequence of the journey and lifestyle,” Clapton states, particularly referencing a favorite piece of hers — Sansa’s belt. “This is her taking back control of her body. I designed it to wrap around over her side-laced dress to represent the absolute removal of any possible physical touch. Her dresses are also tightly-laced on, incredibly difficult to remove; it’s a message to Littlefinger.”

Edited August 9, 2017 by GrailKing
LF for Sansa

[Edith]

31 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

@Edith

Is this up on Reddit; the whole translation ?

Yes https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6q6tdx/swordofthevenings_translations_of_frikidoctors/

You can also check friki own comments here:

https://www.reddit.com/user/TherealFrikidoctor/comments

[GrailKing]

9 minutes ago, Edith said:

Yes https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6q6tdx/swordofthevenings_translations_of_frikidoctors/

You can also check friki own comments here:

https://www.reddit.com/user/TherealFrikidoctor/comments

Yeah; I found them, I also found my PNG copies ( I didn't rename them ).

Thanks.

[Eyes High]

The hackers' ransom message seems to confirm that they didn't get any Season 7 episodes or any dirt on Season 8.

 

47 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

for those on costume speculations : LF ain't getting into LF if Michelle Clapton has a say LOL

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/michele-clapton-on-costuming-the-reunited-stark-children

“All the characters’ costumes are a consequence of the journey and lifestyle,” Clapton states, particularly referencing a favorite piece of hers — Sansa’s belt. “This is her taking back control of her body. I designed it to wrap around over her side-laced dress to represent the absolute removal of any possible physical touch. Her dresses are also tightly-laced on, incredibly difficult to remove; it’s a message to Littlefinger.”

Interesting.

[GrailKing]

19 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The hackers' ransom message seems to confirm that they didn't get any Season 7 episodes or any dirt on Season 8.

 

Interesting.

I thought so, also did edit, I misplaced Sansa for LF or LF for Sansa ?

I'm sure you got that though.

Edited August 9, 2017 by GrailKing

[spottedreptile]

23 hours ago, magdalene said:

I just saw a depressing spoiler on youtube that Cersei is pregnant.  I so hope that's a foiler. I don't see how Jaime will ever get free of her if she is.

Could be Euron's kid. Doesn't she do it with him?

[ElizaD]

Episode 5 photos. My favorite is our first look at Gilly discovering Rhaegar's annulment.

That quote about Sansa's dress, in addition to the other developments and lines this season, makes me feel even more confident that she won't be marrying Tyrion or Sandor in season 8. If she lives, she'll be single and in charge in 8x06.

[anamika]

I did not think the wight hunt all that stupid when I first read it and after watching this season I don't find the reasoning behind it stupid at all.

In the books, we see Alliser Thorne visiting KL with a wight hand, but it rotted away before they could see it . This is funny because Tyrion makes him wait because of his dislike for him and by the time he consents to see Thorne, there's no point. And now it's Tyrion  trying to unsuccessfully convince Cersei using a wight.

On the show we are seeing how hopeless it has become for Jon to convince anyone of the urgency of the impending threat. We see it first with the Northerners who are nonchalant about it and Jon has to spend 5 minutes every episode reminding them of the greater threat to the North.

Then he goes to Dragonstone and talks about the army of the dead and the night king and everyone there is giving him blank looks.  Tyrion says that he believes because he knows Jon is an honest man and Jon asks Tyrion 'How do I convince people - who don't know me - that an enemy they don't believe in is coming to kill them all'. 

Even when Dany finally agrees to help, she hops on her dragon and goes off to war because Cersei has taken out all her allies. With Cersei on the move, Dany can't afford to not fight back.  Jon and the wildlings saw Hardhome - they continue to be the only folks that understand the gravity of the situation.

Now Cersei - on the show she is not meant to be stupid. She is the last player standing in the game of thrones, outlasting even the likes of Olenna Tyrell and LF. How do you convince this person of an army of the dead that they should fight together to win? Show her a wight. Any sensible person would then understand this threat is real. This is a logical move and I don't find it idiotic that Tyrion or Varys would think that seeing a wight would make Cersei understand that there will be no KL unless this threat is defeated.

Jon unexpectedly pledging to Dany also makes things a bit more complicated for Tyrion trying to convince Cersei to join the fight. If Jon were a smarter player, then he/Dany should just lie and pretend to accept Cersei as their queen after the WW is defeated - but that would mean going back on his word/oath and I don't see Jon ever doing that.

What is stupid and illogical is that, for plot reasons, Cersei/Euron see a wight and then continue on with their evil plans for conquest of the 7K. Do they understand that every person who dies joins the army of the dead?  Would Euron seriously sabotage Dany's ships on their way North to fight the WW? Will the Golden company attack the North from the back while they face the WW from the front only to then face an army of more wights? Makes no sense. But I am sure that David and Dan will keep loading them up with plot gifts to make them last for 6 episodes.

Edited August 10, 2017 by anamika

[anamika]

Script outline for episode 5:

http://imgur.com/a/heYd9

Some interesting tidbits in there. And since the Arya-Brienne sparring is in this outline we also get what David and Dan were going for with regards to Sansa when Arya asks Brienne to serve her as well - "Sansa is clearly a bit taken aback that Brienne does not only serve her, she has to share her with Arya and LF notices what she was feeling"  and "Brienne notices the tension between the sisters and Sansa walks off".

It  looks like the Jon/Dany relationship is going full steam ahead. Apparently Rhaegal and Viserion also land near Jon but I think the CGI budget ate them up. Some Rhaegal-Jon bonding going on there - hints of Jon as Rhaegal's rider?

And yes, the Tyrion/Varys discussion about 'making her listen' is about Dany.   Jorah is Dany's Lord commander of the Queens guard!

And according to this, Cersei does tell Jaime about her child.

It's interesting to see the things they have changed from their original outline.

More detailed script outline: 

http://imgur.com/a/AkDWm

What the hell is that dialogue between Jon and Dany about magic? lol!

Jenny of Oldstones gets a mention!

Also lol at the way the Northern houses are written on the show. They are the worst - so fickle and useless. All they do is show up and complain.  After all that rousing KITN speeches and sword waving, they want to get rid of Jon and make Sansa QITN? These worthless bastards don't deserve Jon as KITN.  He should just bend the knee to Dany - a little Dracarys and they will all fall in line soon enough.

Edited August 10, 2017 by anamika

[OhOkayWhat]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

What is stupid and illogical is that, for plot reasons, Cersei/Euron see a wight and then continue on with their evil plans for conquest of the 7K.

I think she miscalculates terribly the chances of Dany army + Jon army to defeat the Night King. She thinks that will be enough to stop the WW invasion and to weaken the Jon and Dany armies at the same time. And she doesn't care if millions of people die .

Edited August 10, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[Oscirus]

17 hours ago, spottedreptile said:

Could be Euron's kid. Doesn't she do it with him?

She does nothing with him this season.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Oscirus

[ursula]

So I’ve been reading through the thread and the spoilers and I think it’s clear that Jon doesn’t have a greater claim to the throne than Dany. He doesn’t have any claim to the Throne. Period.

He was the product of the affair between Rhaegar and Lyanna. That makes him illegitimate. The “marriage” between these two is a sham marriage because Rhaegar was still married to Elia at the time.

If Rhaegar was practising polygamy, it would be a different thing which is still arguable because there's a reason that it hasn't been practised since Aegon I. However that's not the case because Jon's "legitimacy" is based on an annulment that was illegal because Rhaegar doesn’t have any right to annul that marriage, and there was no basis for it. First, it was a legitimate marriage, consummated with children. Second, Rhaegar was not the King and he had no authority. The only person that could have granted him a divorce was the King of Westerns himself. 

In addition, Aerys declared Viserys his heir while Rhaegar’s children were still alive, bypassing Rhaegar’s line permanently. He was actually crowned on Dragonstone when news came of Aerys’s death by the Knights protecting him and Rhaella. That’s why he was called King Viserys III. Which made Daenerys Viserys’s heir after he died and she became Queen Daenerys. 

Even if Jon had been legitimate, then it would still be a question of whether Viserys’s nephew was closer to the Throne than his sister, and you have King Aerys's appointment of Viserys as heir, over Rhaegar's children to deal with which as King, he had the right to do, bumping Jon further down that line.

TL DR… Jon isn’t the rightful owner of the Iron Throne. Daenerys Targaryen is. 

[ElizaD]

51 minutes ago, ursula said:

He was the product of the affair between Rhaegar and Lyanna. That makes him illegitimate. The “marriage” between these two is a sham marriage because Rhaegar was still married to Elia at the time.

If Rhaegar was practising polygamy, it would be a different thing which is still arguable because there's a reason that it hasn't been practised since Aegon I. However that's not the case because Jon's "legitimacy" is based on an annulment that was illegal because Rhaegar doesn’t have any right to annul that marriage, and there was no basis for it. First, it was a legitimate marriage, consummated with children. Second, Rhaegar was not the King and he had no authority. The only person that could have granted him a divorce was the King of Westerns himself.

Henry VIII and Eleanor of Aquitaine are perhaps the two most famous examples of royals whose children were considered legitimate even after the first marriage was annulled. Of course, Henry changed his mind quite a bit about the legitimacy of the daughters from his first and second marriages, but that shows that law wasn't as fixed as people often pretend and royals found plenty of ways to get around restrictions on marriage and remarriage when they wanted heirs. Maybe there's an annulment in the books, maybe there's polygamy that was turned into annulment to avoid confusing non-readers, but the key point is that Jon will be explicitly stated to be not just Rhaegar's son but the true heir to the throne. If the leak is accurate, that has to be accepted as fact, just as we now have to accept that Sansa and Tyrion are not married even though there was no investigation or declaration by a High Septon. That's what Dany will be dealing with, until Jon's public rejection of his claim, death or marriage settles the question. She won't be saying in season 8 that actually, her admired brother Rhaegar had no claim, she'll be celebrating or anguishing over the news that she's not the last Targaryen after all and that her claim is suddenly not as rock solid as she'd thought.

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, anamika said:

More detailed script outline: 

http://imgur.com/a/AkDWm

Wait, Jaime's charge in episode 4 was him trying to kill Drogon?  I had assumed that was a kamikaze run at Dany, which would at least make sense.

Some of the details here aren't consistent with Friki's account, so they may have changed further in filming, though I'd say that the scripting makes more sense here (e.g., Sam immediately recognizing the Rhaegar stuff, Sansa actually being offered the crown, which at least gives Arya's fears some basis, whereas if everybody wanted Jon back and wasn't content with Sansa I'm not sure what the issue is).

I'm amused that, if this is true, Royce seems to have belatedly remembered that the Vale lords are meant to be Sansa's allies.

[bubble sparkly]

The Northern Lords seem like such whiny babies.  Jon has been gone for what, a few weeks, and they are already complaining and looking to overthrow him with Sansa.  Even though the sole reason he went to Dragonstone is to mine dragonglass for weapons to fight the WW (which he is doing), and trying to get Dany to join the WW fight (which he has not yet succeeded at but is still trying).  They act like he's chilling at a one of Littlefinger's brothels, not trying to save their stupid asses from ice zombies.

I kind of hope that Dany roasts a few of them for being mean to her bae when Team Targ (presumably) arrives in the North next season.

[SeanC]

13 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Jon has been gone for what, a few weeks, and they are already complaining and looking to overthrow him with Sansa.  

Lyanna Mormont says there that Jon was crowned "a month ago", which, if that line makes it into the show, I'm pretty sure the show's already battered chronology will explode into a million pieces.