Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Blonde Gator]

15 hours ago, doram said:

How the fuck does Jaimie out-run fire? 

What the fuck kind of plot armour is that?

Convenient plot armor.  Very, very convenient!

[shireenbamfatheon]

While it does seem like Tyrion's deliberately undermining Dany, his constant warnings against her being on the battlefield with her dragons also seem to stem from a place of fear. According to these leaks, Dany does come close to dying on the battlefield and she's lucky that no one except Jaime sets their sight on her when she's busy trying to dig the harpoon out of Drogo when they're both on the ground. If Dany were to die, Tyrion and the rest wouldn't just be without a Queen, the Dothraki and dragons would also be there without anyone to keep them in line. That would spell disaster for everyone, and not just the baddies. Still, I wonder if this is the show's way of subtly indicating that Tyrion is Dany's treason for love in the books.

Bran's whole storyline is just strange. I get that he's so focused on the NK that he can't be bothered about his family, and that his brain's been fried, but he doesn't have any reaction to figuring out LF sent the assassin after him and that the same guy is actively trying to destroy his current-living siblings? I really hope he gets better at some point and that this is just to keep him from getting in the way of faux drama.

 

[Blonde Gator]

4 hours ago, doram said:

Oh come on!

That's just bullshit! Bronn outruns fire???? For real???

At least if Bronn had knocked Jaime off, he should have got roasted in his armour.

Oh come on!!!

Agree about Bronn being ridiculous.  But IIRC, we never see him wearing armor.  He's always wearing leather.  I might be wrong, but I remember wondering about that.....maybe it was last season in the Seige of Riverrun.  We'll find out.

[Blonde Gator]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

Oops you are right.  But I guess he has always been anti burning people alive so that's understandable.

So everyone is telling her not to use the dragons. Like what's the point then...

How was Tyrion planning to win this war without deploying the dragons. I am not understanding his grand strategy here. They have already pretty much lost.

Edit: Properly read the script pages. The battle sounds awesome on page. So do the wagons get to the city? I want this to be a total loss for the Lannisters, but it sounds like some of the wagons make it into KL... Which ugh!

Also the script says that Tyrion loves Dany - seems like a confirmation finally.

Some other things:

She tried and she could not be No One. She's Arya Stark of Winterfell dammit! - I think that sort of puts an end to Arya leaving at the end because she does not feel like she belongs at WF etc. They seem to be contrasting her and Bran here.

Arya tries to get Bran to use his powers to figure out who send the assassin after him. Clever girl.

Still not clear on why LF gives Bran the dagger. It's almost like he wants to get caught.

Brienne congratulates herself on keeping her oath to Catelyn... despite Arya making her way to WF on her own with no help from Brienne.  In the trailer we see her fighting someone. Nothing about that in the script.

I think I read somewhere that Arya & Brienne spar.  And Brienne is impressed by how good Arya is, even at her tiny size.  I wish I could remember where I saw it so I could link it, sorry.

[Edith]

1 hour ago, Blonde Gator said:

I think I read somewhere that Arya & Brienne spar.  And Brienne is impressed by how good Arya is, even at her tiny size.  I wish I could remember where I saw it so I could link it, sorry.

It was Frikidoctor. Remember that this script is from last year. Friki definitely has a source that saw the episode or he saw it instead.

Lads didn't mention Arya combo with the guards at Winterfell nor that she would go directly to the crypt.

 

I remember before the season started I complained of a lot about the leaks because they sounded bad. The season is here and I still think it sucks. 

For example, can someone explain to me why Cersei hasn't mention the fact that Littlefinger betrayed her? Or that threat Olenna told Littlefinger back in season 5? 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Edith

[SeanC]

28 minutes ago, Edith said:

For example, can someone explain to me why Cersei hasn't mention the fact that Littlefinger betrayed her? Or that threat Olenna told Littlefinger back in season 5? 

As to the first, probably because she's not going to have anything to do with Littlefinger now, so the writers don't feel the need to address it.

As to the second, do you mean, why did Olenna not do anything to Littlefinger?  I don't think she had any reason to (or capability, frankly, based on what we've seen in Season 7).  He helped her out in Season 5, and thenceforth had nothing to do with the fall of her family.

I'm disappointed that it doesn't sound like we're going to get any reaction from Theon to the death of Ramsay.  I mean, I get that the show doesn't have time to show everyone hearing about everything, but Ramsay pretty much defined Theon's time on the show for three whole seasons.  Maybe if he and Sansa ever see each other again it'll come up.

[OhOkayWhat]

6 hours ago, anamika said:

She tried and she could not be No One. She's Arya Stark of Winterfell dammit! - I think that sort of puts an end to Arya leaving at the end because she does not feel like she belongs at WF etc. They seem to be contrasting her and Bran here.

I think she leaves Winterfell and travels (only temporarily) at the end for other reasons.

About another issue: it is not some characters are doing stupid things. On screen we see almost all the characters doing this absurd thing: playing the Game. Playing the Game is absurd. And the show shows us that.

 

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

Or maybe I've put more thought into the nuances of that then the writers did.

I noticed Arya's plot this season had a lot of subtle and nuanced writing.

Edited August 1, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[FnkyChkn34]

A White Walker dragon?  Hoe. Lee. Crap.

[arjumand]

So, quite a few youtube reviewers have suggested that it's highly suspicious that Cersei keeps winning, and are suggesting that there's a spy/mole in Dany's camp.

Two in particular (New Rockstars and Secrets of the Citadel) are putting their (virtual) money on Missandei, specifically because of that weird little convo she had with Davos, which reminded us all that she's from Naath. Yes, her home is really beautiful and all, but it hides a horrible disease which kills all outsiders who try to settle there, and it's known as the "Butterfly fever". Now Secrets pointed to this as hinting that just like Naath, Missandei also hides mortal dangers under a beautiful, seductive appearance (forget about New Rockstars' reason - they're really disappointing this season).

Of course, now everything she's done seems suspicious - like sleeping with Grey Worm. We've already been shown that the Unsullied crave affection, and are especially vulnerable when they do so (the one who was murdered in the brothel). Maybe it was just a way to kind of destabilize Grey Worm, and find out exactly when he's leaving Dragonstone.

I also tried to think why she would betray Dany - is she one of the three betrayals Dany is supposed to suffer? There could be a reason in what Dany did in Meereen, or the fact that she kind of abandoned them and flew off with Drogon at the end of season 5. Missandei and Grey Worm were abandoned, left with Tyrion in charge, who was making agreements with slavers, and acting like he knew what they had suffered. IF Dany hadn't come back in the nick of time, she and GW would have been enslaved again. Maybe that was the last straw, for Missandei. Also, they love their ironic scripts and lines - Tyrion saying that she's Dany's "most trusted advisor", for example. Who better to betray Dany?

Or maybe I'm completely wrong, and Qyburn is just that good! But Varys used to be that good, too.

[domina89]

47 minutes ago, arjumand said:

So, quite a few youtube reviewers have suggested that it's highly suspicious that Cersei keeps winning, and are suggesting that there's a spy/mole in Dany's camp.

Two in particular (New Rockstars and Secrets of the Citadel) are putting their (virtual) money on Missandei, specifically because of that weird little convo she had with Davos, which reminded us all that she's from Naath. Yes, her home is really beautiful and all, but it hides a horrible disease which kills all outsiders who try to settle there, and it's known as the "Butterfly fever". Now Secrets pointed to this as hinting that just like Naath, Missandei also hides mortal dangers under a beautiful, seductive appearance (forget about New Rockstars' reason - they're really disappointing this season).

Of course, now everything she's done seems suspicious - like sleeping with Grey Worm. We've already been shown that the Unsullied crave affection, and are especially vulnerable when they do so (the one who was murdered in the brothel). Maybe it was just a way to kind of destabilize Grey Worm, and find out exactly when he's leaving Dragonstone.

I also tried to think why she would betray Dany - is she one of the three betrayals Dany is supposed to suffer? There could be a reason in what Dany did in Meereen, or the fact that she kind of abandoned them and flew off with Drogon at the end of season 5. Missandei and Grey Worm were abandoned, left with Tyrion in charge, who was making agreements with slavers, and acting like he knew what they had suffered. IF Dany hadn't come back in the nick of time, she and GW would have been enslaved again. Maybe that was the last straw, for Missandei. Also, they love their ironic scripts and lines - Tyrion saying that she's Dany's "most trusted advisor", for example. Who better to betray Dany?

Or maybe I'm completely wrong, and Qyburn is just that good! But Varys used to be that good, too.

Oooh I like this!  Did you notice Tyrion introduced Missendei to Jon and Davos as Dany's "most trusted advisor" or something to that effect?  Hmmm.............

Oops mentioned above at the end.  Sorry!!!

Edited August 1, 2017 by domina89
Because I read too fast

[Spartan Girl]

Oh shit if Missandei turns traitor, that would be a twist. Kind of a repeat of the witch that killed Dany's child. But better her than Tyrion.

[YaddaYadda]

I've seen the speculation about Missandei, but I have doubts. It just seems like it's really late in the game to have her turn on Dany, with no real reason for doing that. Dany freed her and freed the Unsullied too, but they chose to follow her anyway. Besides, it's only book readers who know the lore of Naath, it will just create confusion. I mean people were confused about Ned and Lyanna in that flashback, thinking that Ned or Robert was the father. 

As far as the first attack goes, if we look at the map, all Euron had to do was wait out Dany's fleet and create some kind of blockade. Dany's fleet has to travel south if they wanna go to King's Landing, Dorne, or the Reach. 

I thought that Tyrion going for an attack on Casterly Rock made a lot of sense. That for Tyrion would have been the ultimate fuck you to Tywin. Tywin didn't want to give it to him, so he's taking it by force now. That was a dumb move on Tyrion's part and a self-serving one. Jaime knew what Tyrion wanted and he acted accordingly. 

[SimoneS]

No way do I believe that Missandei would ever betray Daenerys. If there is a traitor in Daenerys' midst, then Varys would be the most likely suspect. He has conflicting loyalties, yet I don't see what he would gain from the betrayal. I think that if there is to be a traitor at some stage, then it is mostly likely one of the northern lords who is unconvinced by Jon's white walker story.

Edited August 3, 2017 by SimoneS

[Chris24601]

6 hours ago, SeanC said:

I was initially confused by Sansa being said to be jealous of Arya being given the dagger, but I guess that kind of makes sense since she doesn't know about Arya's weapons training at this point so to her it's just Bran giving one of them a fancy knife for presumed ceremonial display.  Or maybe I've put more thought into the nuances of that then the writers did.

It might also be possible that Friki is misreading Sansa's reaction as jealousy. If its purely nonverbal cues it could instead be Sansa's distress at how Bran is still an emotionless robot (dashing her hopes that it was just temporary and he'd get better) or that she's starting to see how his visions might be useful and is concocting a plan.

Also I find it a bit humorous that Bran Stark's big claim to fame is now that he Knows Everything while his half-brother (actually cousin) is expressly recognized by the phrase "You know nothing Jon Snow."

[Minneapple]

Oooo I like the speculation of a spy in Dany's camp. And I agree, I find it HIGHLY suspicious that Tyrion said Missandei is her "most trusted adviser." Hmmmm. That is the kind of twist I could get behind. However I would want it to be well-reasoned, like not just "one time Dany glared at Missandei so she decided to turn TRAITOR and help Cersei." 

[domina89]

17 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Oooo I like the speculation of a spy in Dany's camp. And I agree, I find it HIGHLY suspicious that Tyrion said Missandei is her "most trusted adviser." Hmmmm. That is the kind of twist I could get behind. However I would want it to be well-reasoned, like not just "one time Dany glared at Missandei so she decided to turn TRAITOR and help Cersei." 

I would suspect she might be a faceless man hired by Cersei to assassinate Dany at an opportune time (the FM was already in the castle when they arrived because Cersei knew Dany would go there.  The FM dispatches the real Missandei and takes her face) BUT Cersei is broke, so I guess that's impossible.  I love the idea of a mole, though.  Makes a lot of sense.

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Jon advises her the same thing about the dragons. Is he trying to sabotage her too?

Jon is not Daenerys' ally and he wants her to help fight the white walkers, not to lose soldiers on the Lannisters.

[Oscirus]

Missandei as a spy is an interesting theory but it doesn't work. There's no setup, no motive, nothing. Besides, there's not one tyrion move that jamie couldn't predict.

7 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Jon is not Daenerys' ally and he wants her to help fight the white walkers, not to lose soldiers on the Lannisters.

And tyrion doesn't want her dying on the battlefield. Maybe next time she holds a wartime strategy meeting, she should include at least one person well versed in warfare.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Oscirus

[SimoneS]

18 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

And tyrion doesn't want her dying on the battlefield. Maybe next time she talks strategy, she should include at least one person well versed in warfare.

I think Jorah would be a much better military advisor. If Daenerys continues to listen to Tyrion, she is going to end up dying in this war one way or the other.

 

9 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

I blame the TV show. I'm not going to bring up the sore topic of adaptation vs fanfic but I will say that American TV tends to "dilute" good female power and this is an example of it. It's one thing to let Evil Cersei be ruthless and goal-oriented and single-minded because that's what Female Villains do (and that's why they are Villains because powerful women are dangerous, dontchaknowit?)  but once we moved past the books, they started writing Dany as someone who wrings her hands and worries about collateral damage. 

I'm not saying that Dany worrying about collateral damage is OOC. She has always been more smallfolk-minded that most of the other nobility on this show. But the show has taken it to an extreme where she's effectually powerless and when she does exert strength, she's regarded by Tyrion as potentially crazy and Jon, her love interest, is "disappointed" in her for not living up to the non-existent pedestal he's placed her on. 

Also, the idea of Dany asking Jon for advice on how to win her wars is enraging. Dany didn't need Barristan or Jorah to sack Astapor. She didn't look away when she marched towards Mereen. Before Tyrion Dinklage showed up, she would take advice from all her advisors and come to a decision based on her instincts and their counsel. But Tyrion shows up and she does everything he tells her to do.

Now apparently, we're going to have to sit through episodes of Dany talking, and then side-eyeing Jon for approval. Kill me now. ?

Actually he was advising her not to.

Or did I get something wrong?

I agree. Although I think that some of this is about stringing out Daenerys' victory over Cersei to the end of season 8, it is annoying as hell to see her no longer listening to her advisors, but relying on her own instincts for the final decision. It does seem like all these losses spurs her to do just that though. She needs to remember Olenna's advice and be a dragon.

Regarding Yara, I speculated that Euron cut out her tongue and I am even more convinced now. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by SimoneS

[anamika]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

And tyrion doesn't want her dying on the battlefield. Maybe next time she holds a wartime strategy meeting, she should include at least one person well versed in warfare.

As pointed out above, there is no one well versed in warfare it seems. Other than Euron and Jaime who are not on her side. Tyrion has no idea on how and where to deploy dragons, Randyll Tarly thinks it makes more sense to join Cersei than Dany, Dorne only has the Sand Snakes, Yara did not see her uncle's ships coming, Jon is a mopey bastard who cares only about the WW, Yohn Royce is getting schooled by Sansa on basic warfare, Tormund is at Eastwatch by the sea, the Hound is somewhere and Daario is in Meereen. Am I missing anyone?  The good guys are fucked. Maybe Theon will finally come through for everyone at the end.

Edited August 2, 2017 by anamika

[Enigma X]

If the Missandei spoilers are true, I feel they have no real motivation and will be a horrible writing choice.

[SimoneS]

38 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

If the Missandei spoilers are true, I feel they have no real motivation and will be a horrible writing choice.

Good thing that they are wild speculation not spoilers.

Edited August 2, 2017 by SimoneS

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

As pointed out above, there is no one well versed in warfare it seems. Other than Euron and Jaime who are not on her side. Tyrion has no idea on how and where to deploy dragons, Randyll Tarly thinks it makes more sense to join Cersei than Dany, Dorne only has the Sand Snakes, Yara did not see her uncle's ships coming, Jon is a mopey bastard who cares only about the WW, Yohn Royce is getting schooled by Sansa on basic warfare, Tormund is at Eastwatch by the sea, the Hound is somewhere and Daario is in Meereen. Am I missing anyone?  The good guys are fucked. Maybe Theon will finally come through for everyone at the end.

You are being ironic, right? RIGHT?

12 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

she's regarded by Tyrion as potentially crazy and Jon, her love interest, is "disappointed" in her for not living up to the non-existent pedestal he's placed her o

Where does it says that Tyrion regards her as potentially crazy or that Jon is disappointed in Dany? And when has Jon put her on a pedestal?

I read those spoilers for episode 4 and one thing that is not clear for me is: who wins this one? And why Dany needs the dragons to defeat the Lannister troops? I remember  Robert talking to Ned in season one about Dany and the Dothraki and he was worried about the Dothraki. I can't find the exact lines, but the idea was that Robert, who had the full Lannisters troops plus all their allies, would have a hard time beating the Dothraki. So how can't Dany beat a weakened Lannister army?

@anamika I understant what you saying about Arya, but Arya leaving at the end of the show does't mean she doesn't care about her family, or that she is going away forever. 

ETA: Bullshit on Missadei betrayaing Dany. I wouldn't buy it even for a second. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Raachel2008

[SeanC]

Missandei has been the subject of weird conspiracy theories for years now in the show fandom, and even in the books, where she's a kid.  She's variously been suggested to be a Faceless Man, the Harpy, etc.  None of it fits.  There's just no setup or plausible motivation provided.

[Oscirus]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

As pointed out above, there is no one well versed in warfare it seems. Other than Euron and Jaime who are not on her side. Tyrion has no idea on how and where to deploy dragons, Randyll Tarly thinks it makes more sense to join Cersei than Dany, Dorne only has the Sand Snakes, Yara did not see her uncle's ships coming, Jon is a mopey bastard who cares only about the WW, Yohn Royce is getting schooled by Sansa on basic warfare, Tormund is at Eastwatch by the sea, the Hound is somewhere and Daario is in Meereen. Am I missing anyone?  The good guys are fucked. Maybe Theon will finally come through for everyone at the end.

I'm pretty sure that both Dorne and the tyrells had military advisers that they could've invited to that meeting. At least Yara had some experience the other two? not so much.

After reading those spoilers, it sounds like Dany damn there goes on a suicidal mission alone with Drogon to combat the Lannister army, and D and D repeat that one war trick they always use, just as it looks like Dany's about to lose, Tyrion arrives with the dothraki ( only reason I can think of for his presence at that war).

Edited August 2, 2017 by Oscirus

[anamika]

What's the deal with the Tullys. They don't make an appearance this season. I wonder if they are gone for good. I am guessing the Lannisters are now controlling Riverrun since Jaime mentions what happened at the Twins.

[Eyes High]

8 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

You are being ironic, right? RIGHT?

Where does it says that Tyrion regards her as potentially crazy or that Jon is disappointed in Dany?

According to Lads, Varys and Tyrion worry about Dany's stability after her impulsive decision to attack the Lannister troops and her decision to burn Randyll and Dickon Tarly.

 

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

After reading those spoilers, it sounds like Dany damn there goes on a suicidal mission alone with Drogon to combat the Lannister army, and D and D repeat that one war trick they always use, just as it looks like Dany's about to lose, Tyrion arrives with the dothraki ( only reason I can think of for his presence at that war).

From the 7x04 outline, it sounds like the ambush sequence is one of the few GOT battles that doesn't fit the usual "last minute intervention by third party when all hope seems lost" mold. Drogon and the Dothraki attack together, as can be seen from the shot in the trailer.

I'm guessing Tyrion only goes with Dany for plot reasons: he can be there to watch Jaime almost ride to his death, and he can be present when Dany decides to burn Randyll and Dickon Tarly.

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

After reading those spoilers, it sounds like Dany damn there goes on a suicidal mission alone with Drogon to combat the Lannister army, and D and D repeat that one war trick they always use, just as it looks like Dany's about to lose, Tyrion arrives with the dothraki ( only reason I can think of for his presence at that war).

That's not what happens.  Dany goes in first to break up the enemy formations and to halt their advance/retreat as much as possible while the Dothraki close the distance.

[MadMouse]

I really hope they don't play up Tyrion and Varys worrying about her mental stability. Roasting the Tarlys after they turned on their liege Lord who happens to be one of her allies is just punishment. Maybe the burning part is a little over the top but what's the point of having Dragons if you don't strike fear into your enemies.  Honestly after all this bloodshed already her council should be advising her to give the Red Keep the Harrenhal treatment.

[anamika]

46 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

From the 7x04 outline, it sounds like the ambush sequence is one of the few GOT battles that doesn't fit the usual "last minute intervention by third party when all hope seems lost" mold. Drogon and the Dothraki attack together, as can be seen from the shot in the trailer.

Yep, from the way its written, it looks like we are getting a well coordinated battle with Drogon and Dothraki cutting off Lannisters and Tarlys, splitting them up and taking them down. It's only Bronn and his plot armor that gets in the way.

Edited August 2, 2017 by anamika

[TarotQueen]

9 hours ago, Enigma X said:

If the Missandei spoilers are true, I feel they have no real motivation and will be a horrible writing choice.

Theres been a book fan theory of Missandei being Faceless around forever.  

Its not what I want to see either, but if they do go that route then its not really as out there as you seem to think.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MadMouse said:

I really hope they don't play up Tyrion and Varys worrying about her mental stability. Roasting the Tarlys after they turned on their liege Lord who happens to be one of her allies is just punishment. Maybe the burning part is a little over the top but what's the point of having Dragons if you don't strike fear into your enemies.  Honestly after all this bloodshed already her council should be advising her to give the Red Keep the Harrenhal treatment.

The problem here is that she needs to form an allegiance with Jon.  She just spent time arguing that her father was an evil man for roasting Jon's Grandfather and Uncle alive.  Now she roasts a father and son alive.

Now she's got to hope that Jon doesn't see this as she just roasted Sam's father and brother alive.  Jon would agree that the death was necessary and Dany needs to be the one to do it but will he see the manner of if lacking honor?

Should make future introductions fun...

Jon: Sam, this is Dany of the many titles.  She barbequed your father and brother.

[Edith]

1 hour ago, doram said:

Well context is key. Of course the Starks's death occurred in entirely different circumstances than the Tarlys.

Jon himself executed a 10 year old boy, and a man who was begging for mercy before he swung his sword. Put it black and white, Jon looks like a horrible person until the context of why Olly and Slynt had to die are explained.

So it would be hypocritical if Jon's knee-jerk reaction is to condemn Dany for "burning people" without understanding why those people were burnt. 

I really hope the show isn't going to write their relationship as Good Man Jon "teaching" Wild Woman Dany how to be a Better Human Being. 

Agree! Context is key in this case but I still find funny, if the dialogue hasn't change, that Jon goes talking about his best friend Sam and the next episode she burns the father and little brother of that same friend! 

That and the fact that Sam saved Jorah, her more trusted and loved advisor.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Edith

[nitrofishblue]

After seeing Cercesi with those huge dragon killing bows made me worried. I sure don't want to see any of the dragons killed. They need to go and burn up Euron's fleet.

[Blonde Gator]

3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

The problem here is that she needs to form an allegiance with Jon.  She just spent time arguing that her father was an evil man for roasting Jon's Grandfather and Uncle alive.  Now she roasts a father and son alive.

Now she's got to hope that Jon doesn't see this as she just roasted Sam's father and brother alive.  Jon would agree that the death was necessary and Dany needs to be the one to do it but will he see the manner of if lacking honor?

Should make future introductions fun...

Jon: Sam, this is Dany of the many titles.  She barbequed your father and brother.

I'm not sure Jon will question Dany's method of executing the Tarly's.  He's fond of his father's saying "He who pronounces the sentence should swing the sword".

Dany has a gigantic sword, whose name is Drogon. 

[MrsR]

Dany burning cities full of civilians is not the same as Dany using dragons as a weapon on the field of battle.  Jon and Tyrion were against the former. I'm sure both of them saw the opportunity to knock out the Lannister force while they were travelling in the open.

Edited August 2, 2017 by MrsR

[Oscirus]

13 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Dany burning cities full of civilians is not the same as Dany using dragons as a weapon on the field of battle.  Jon and Tyrion where against the former. I'm sure both of them saw the opportunity to knock out the Lannister force while they were travelling in the open.

According to the outline, Jon's against both.

OK I read the outline and I was way off. Still don't get what the hell Tyrion's doing out there. He adds nothing to the battle.  I guess directions? Even though I feel that a map would serve better. I guess I'll find out on sunday.

[SimoneS]

There is too much "what Jon thinks" for my liking. Daenerys doesn't need anyone's permission to give the Tarly men the justice that they deserve for their treachery against Olenna and their rebellion against their Dragon Queen. Jon should be worrying about what is happening in the north. He can scold his sisters for executing Littlefinger if he is so concerned about who should or should not be executed for treachery.

As for Sam, well it is hard knock life. When the Dragon Queen comes to reclaim her throne, be sure to pick her side. Sam can be sad over his father and brother's death, but he has a mother, sister, Gilly, and little Sam to worry about so there is no time to become resentful and angry. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by SimoneS

[tangerine95]

Tbh I don't see the huge issue with Dany executing the Tarlys.I mean its war and they're on opposing sides and I'm assuming the Tarlys will refuse to turn on Cersei.In the world of the show its seems like something that's not out of the ordinary in a war especially.I guess since its a dragon burning them that seems more extreme than if it was a sword but the dragons are her weapons basically so I don't see why Tyrion and Varys would be that disturbed by it and question her sanity all of a sudden.I'll have to see how it comes off onscreen,I wouldn't be surprised if they did want to tease the is she actually mad story even if they have no intention of actually going there.

[Oscirus]

I guess  this upcoming episode should officially erase any doubts that Tyrion isn't a dragon rider. Since even if he was, his dumb ass wouldn't use it.

[Raachel2008]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

There is too much "what Jon thinks" for my liking.

But there is not much "what Jon thinks". The spoilers are about *one* scene where Dany asks about his opinion. People make it sound like he is abusing her or she is losing her soul or that it diminishes her as a woman. But that is not true. Assuming the spoilers are 110% correct - and they've been so sar - Dany, who is losing, asks someone who happens to be around and has a lot of militar experience, what he thinks. Jon says what he thinks, she hears what he has to say, and choses the course of action she finds better, which is not his. What is the problem, exactly?

[MarySNJ]

22 hours ago, SimoneS said:

No way do I believe that Missandei would ever betray Daenerys. If there is a traitor in Daenerys' midst, then Varys would be the mostly likely suspect. He has conflicting loyalties, yet I don't see what he would gain from the betrayal. I think that if there is to be a traitor at some stage, then it is mostly likely one of the northern lords who is unconvinced by Jon's white walker story.

I don't believe it either. But to be honest I just hate the speculation that Missandei has turned traitor. There's nothing I can think of that Daenerys has done that would cause her to want to betray Dany on behalf of any of their enemies. There's nothing in earlier seasons that suggests Missandei is in cohoots with the Lannisters, or the Great Masters that kept her as a slave before Dany freed her, or anyone else. There's no indication that any of the Northern lords would want to undermine Daenerys when the alternative is Cersei Lannister.  They are concerned with the North which is their separate kingdom. Also, there's nothing in the dialog that suggests Qyburn or Cersei or Euron or even Littlefinger has a mole at Dragonstone. You'd think someone would drop a hint in the dialog if they want to set this up as a possibility. 

I suppose I can sort of see Varys doing it if he thinks Daenerys would be worse than the alternative. But he's seen what Cersei and the Lannisters are capable of and she's not a better alternative than Dany. If he actually cares about having a "just ruler", Cersei is worse. At least Daenerys cares about the innocent common folks which is who Varys claims to care about. 

I think this is just a case of the show runners having to hand-wave away concerns about the passage of time as they rush to bring certain story lines to a conclusion. Jaime Lannister knows Tyrion well enough to guess he'd send troops to Casterly Rock, hence his callback to Robb's strategy at the Battle of the Whispering Wood. Euron is supposed to be "the greatest Captain of the 14 seas" which suggests he may have a good instinct about what his enemies are doing at sea. 

[TarotQueen]

We as viewers are all entitled to our own opinions about the value of Jon's thoughts, but it would seem strange to judge Dany for seeking fresh counsel now that Tyrion's plans have all gone awry.  She really doesnt know enough about Westeros not to ask someone who has lived there for thier opinions and advice.

[OhOkayWhat]

If it's true that info about Arya sparring with Brienne I think that's foreshadowing of Arya trying to fight UnGregor

Edited August 2, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

But there is not much "what Jon thinks". The spoilers are about *one* scene where Dany asks about his opinion. People make it sound like he is abusing her or she is losing her soul or that it diminishes her as a woman. But that is not true. Assuming the spoilers are 110% correct - and they've been so sar - Dany, who is losing, asks someone who happens to be around and has a lot of militar experience, what he thinks. Jon says what he thinks, she hears what he has to say, and choses the course of action she finds better, which is not his. What is the problem, exactly?

I was actually referring to posters here and elsewhere online focusing on what Jon thinks about Daenerys executing the Tarly. Not sure why you felt the snark was necessary.

Edited August 2, 2017 by SimoneS

[YaddaYadda]

So there is sparring with Brienne and Arya.

Edited August 2, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[bubble sparkly]

I don't recall anything from the episode leaks that mentions Dany and Jon discussing the Tarlys, so perhaps it doesn't even come up?

IIRC Dany returns on Drogon in ep 5 and Jon is impressed with her dragon riding prowess, then he pets Drogon which subsequently impresses Dany. They then have a kind of flirty goodbye when the wight hunt party leaves.

However, I think there was something in the early spoilers from last year that indicated that Jon might raise the Tarly-roasting with Dany, but she points out that he's killed people in battle too and he concedes the point.

In any case they are rocking the boat  a few episodes later so it doesn't seem like it will cause an issue between them.

[Enigma X]

11 hours ago, TarotQueen said:

Theres been a book fan theory of Missandei being Faceless around forever.  

Its not what I want to see either, but if they do go that route then its not really as out there as you seem to think.

I am well aware of those rumors and read the first 4 books. On the television show nothing has alluded to her being a faceless man or untrustworthy. Fan theories can still be bad writing if they simply come of nowhere. This, in my opinion, would be out of nowhere.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

So there is sparring with Brienne and Arya.

I cannot begin to tell you how excited that clip made me. Thanks for posting. It is so great to see Arya home and sparring with Brienne. Arya looks so much a Stark like her father, Jon, and Robb. Sansa looks shocked. I thought they said that Arya would use the knife not Needle? 

Edited August 2, 2017 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I cannot begin to tell you how excited that clip made me. Thanks for posting. It is so great to see Arya home and sparring with Brienne. Arya looks so much a Stark like her father, Jon, and Robb. Sansa looks shocked. I thought they said that Arya would use the knife not Needle? 

Frikidoctor did. Lads just said there would be an Arya/Brienne sparring scene.