Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Stephanie1216]

"How to Train your Dragon"

a YouTube instructional video

?

Dear yadda

i agree with the stupid three heads of the dragon = three dragon riders especially when they try to say Tyrion is going to be a T and dragon rider which is stupid and negates the entire story arc of him and his father.

no one ever counts the Night King as the third dragon rider duh

Dany, Jon? And the Night King would be three dragon riders how hard is that for people to get? We know Dany and the Night King and ride dragons and maybe Jon? Jon is actually a Targaryrian (I can't spell that name) after all 

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'll be happy to never hear about the three heads of the dragon for as long as I live, same as Azor Ahai. I know the three heads of the dragon must have been included in one of the prophecies, but I always felt like it's the Targaryen version of the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. 

I don't think the three heads were mentioned on screen were they? Mel talked about Azor Ahai twice or three - or the Prince Who Was Promised if you believe they are different people. But I agree I will be a hpapy camper if they are never mentioned again.

 

3 hours ago, TarotQueen said:

will they all be able to secure both themselves and the wight safely?

I'm curious too, as how they, I dunno? Chain? Box? Cuff? a wight.

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I know they are going for tension first between Sansa and Arya which actually makes sense because their relationship on the show has always had problems, but I hope that the show lets them have a conversation where they reestablish their bond as siblings after.

If all those spoilers correct, Sansa's reaction to Arya may be coming from what she learns about her sister and not from their old problems. I love Arya, but she has been up to some twisted stuff. Sansa being appalled at first learning all that may put what Arya has done and has become in perspective, specially since she is a fan and media favorite who 'can do no wrong', while Sansa, Dany and Jon always get the short end of the stick.

[Stephanie1216]

I'm kinda tired of people acting like Sansa and Arya have this big hatred of each other. They were kids with nothing in common season one. They simply dig at one another over their differences and they don't understand each other because they are kids.

After what they both have been through and they simply have matured, why would viewers assume they hate each other? It's been six years and they should celebrate their differences (Gosh I hate that phrase)but anyway they are both strong in their own ways, they have both survived in their own ways. I'm talking about Sansa season 1 when she had to appease Joffrey to stay alive. Her and Ramsey, don't get me started that was stupid. "I'll starve myself" . . . "Well, ok". As Sansa gets back on the horse to go marry Ramsey.

[Stephanie1216]

The Jon and Sansa bickering in front of people is forced. If Jon, Sansa or Davos don't recommend A small council they don't deserve any power. That's obviously what the small council is for.

 

Why are all the northern lords still at Winterfell anyway? Don't they need to get themselves and their armies back home? Jon can R-Mail them if they need to come back?  Only his small council Lords should be there. 

Who should be on Jons Small Council?

Sansa

Davos (hand of the King) he trained for it with Stannis

Little Lyanna should stay 

lord Royce or another Lord of the Vale 

the Winterfell maester? Remember the Maester serves the castle not necessarily the family according the the Starks original Maester. So I guess that guy is trustworthy enough. Sam stuck at the Wall or of course Jon could hire Sam.

 

I just had an idea.  I know you are are thrilled to hear it?

One spoiler is Dany dies somehow blah blah and Jon ends up on the Iron Throne as a Stark T. If the WW are under control and the Wall has come down, Sam won't be stuck at the Nights watch either!!!

So, what would be Sams future? He could claim his fathers beautiful castle and money, marry Gilly and have more kids and a family etc AND be on Jons Small Council in Kings Landing or even be Hand of the King. 

If he's a grand Maester for King Jon Jaeharys, or whatever his name is, that leaves Gilly and baby Sam in the same boat they are in now.

I like the first choice that way Gilly is now a Lady of the Court and not just some poor, single mom, incest surviving, former wildling. I don't even like Sams storyline when he is alone, I like Sam when he's with Jon anyway.

 

So, if their is no Wall, what are men to do that don't want to go to jail, are bastards, men that are too poor to eat, rich babies like Jon  and Sam, men like Benjen who feel like it's their duty. Etc I don't know why I care, because their is nowhere for the unfortunate women to go to except a brothel.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Stephanie1216

[Stephanie1216]

47 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

I don't think the three heads were mentioned on screen were they? Mel talked about Azor Ahai twice or three - or the Prince Who Was Promised if you believe they are different people. But I agree I will be a hpapy camper if they are never mentioned again.

 

I'm curious too, as how they, I dunno? Chain? Box? Cuff? a wight.

If all those spoilers correct, Sansa's reaction to Arya may be coming from what she learns about her sister and not from their old problems. I love Arya, but she has been up to some twisted stuff. Sansa being appalled at first learning all that may put what Arya has done and has become in perspective, specially since she is a fan and media favorite who 'can do no wrong', while Sansa, Dany and Jon always get the short end of the stick.

Regarding Arya being twisted.

yes she has been reckless in particular with the killing of the Freys with no consideration of her and Uncle Edmure and the the fact that the Bridge may be needed by Jons army or the Tully Army and  everyone is gearing up for a "Ba-elle" as Jon Snow says. She needs to find out what's going on before she goes back to work.

also in the Arya/Hot Pie spoiler which I think is tonight, it reads like Hot Pie doesn't recognize Arya? When I read this I thought she was in another face, but the photos she's just herself. What's up with that?

[GrailKing]

WRG to the wight: I think it was said they catch one who is by its self, so not in the bigger battle.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Stephanie1216 said:

The Jon and Sansa bickering in front of people is forced. If Jon, Sansa or Davos don't recommend A small council they don't deserve any power. That's obviously what the small council is for.

 

Why are all the northern lords still at Winterfell anyway? Don't they need to get themselves and their armies back home? Jon can R-Mail them if they need to come back?  Only his small council Lords should be there. 

Who should be on Jons Small Council?

Sansa

Davos (hand of the King) he trained for it with Stannis

Little Lyanna should stay 

lord Royce or another Lord of the Vale 

the Winterfell maester? Remember the Maester serves the castle not necessarily the family according the the Starks original Maester. So I guess that guy is trustworthy enough. Sam stuck at the Wall or of course Jon could hire Sam.

 

I just had an idea.  I know you are are thrilled to hear it?

One spoiler is Dany dies somehow blah blah and Jon ends up on the Iron Throne as a Stark T. If the WW are under control and the Wall has come down, Sam won't be stuck at the Nights watch either!!!

So, what would be Sams future? He could claim his fathers beautiful castle and money, marry Gilly and have more kids and a family etc AND be on Jons Small Council in Kings Landing or even be Hand of the King. 

If he's a grand Maester for King Jon Jaeharys, or whatever his name is, that leaves Gilly and baby Sam in the same boat they are in now.

I like the first choice that way Gilly is now a Lady of the Court and not just some poor, single mom, incest surviving, former wildling. I don't even like Sams storyline when he is alone, I like Sam when he's with Jon anyway.

 

So, if their is no Wall, what are men to do that don't want to go to jail, are bastards, men that are too poor to eat, rich babies like Jon  and Sam, men like Benjen who feel like it's their duty. Etc I don't know why I care, because their is nowhere for the unfortunate women to go to except a brothel.

I think we are watching a story told by either Bran , Sansa or Samwell Tarly ( AKA GRRM )Grand Maester, in service to House Stark and the realm.

Knights Watch will be reformed minus the constraining  rules of wife and family.

The victors get to write the history after all.

Reminding future generations why there need to be Starks in WF and don't forget past promises.

It will take many,many years to get Westeros back.

Edited July 23, 2017 by GrailKing
Added Sansa

[Stephanie1216]

So tonight Tyrion convinces Dany to send her Greyjoy fleet back to Dorne.  Why on earth did the Ironborn and the Dornish travel to Dragonstone to start with if he's just sending them back and so far away.  So they are going South and the unsullied are going West to useless Casterly Rock. That splits her Army three ways. Mistake number one in Westoros.

Ill be interested in why Tyrion thinks Casterly Rock is so important for them to have? So what if Cersai and Jamie retreat back to Lannisport, so that isn't a good enough reason. Sounds like Tyrion has a personal reason for wanting back his family home.

Olenna tries warn Dany to follow her instincts more, Olenna knows this is a mistake. I thought splitting up your army is almost always a mistake that generals make in hindsight.

Tyrions bad idea ends up with Yara and Ellaria captured and the Fleet conquered and Olennas all important lands taken over by the Lannisters. Jamie will outsmart the smart brother tonight. 

I have said all summer that Highgarden was important strategically and If I know that Tyrion knows it. This is a HUGE mistake he suggests but Danys fault because the Buck Stops With Her, its ultimately her decision. 

How has she been feeding her Army up until now anyway? The logistics of war are not very glamorous but it's how wars are won. Cut off supplies, army's can't function. Casterly Rock is a useless target. If I remember my map correctly, Dragonstone is on the East coast near Kings Landing and Casterly Rock is on the west coast. So she sends the unsullied all the way there for what? 

Ill be curious to see how he talks her into this. She needs a military strategist apparently Tyrion is a good domestic economic leader but not a military leader. Too bad Bronn isn't with him, Bronn. Could have set him straight.

She splits the Army three ways and loses 1/3 has another 1/3 on the West Coast doing nothing (the unsullied are good at doing nothing) while the Tyrells get their asses kicked by Lannisters? All she has at Dragonstone is the Dothraki now. Three of her Allies are OUT Ellaria/Dorne Yara/fleet and Olenna/Highgarden/food 

HOW STUPID this is going to tick me off tonight 

i will ask again who has the damn bridge at the Twins? By now, the Lannisters I guess

Edited July 23, 2017 by Stephanie1216

[Stephanie1216]

I looked at the map and its worse than I thought.

Dragonstone and KL are straight across the country to Casterly Rock. If the Unsullied marched there they would have to go right by Kings Landing.

If they take ships they have to sail all the way around Dorne and back up. How stupid. 

With Yaras fleet in Dorne defeated whatever, I suppose he Unsullied would travel on the Masters Ships?

last week Jamie's saying they are on the losing side, they have no allies, they don't  have food for men and horses. What a set up making Cersais side look pathetic. Jamie didn't factor in that Dany is a Military Idiot

[SeanC]

11 minutes ago, Stephanie1216 said:

So tonight Tyrion convinces Dany to send her Greyjoy fleet back to Dorne.  Why on earth did the Ironborn and the Dornish travel to Dragonstone to start with if he's just sending them back and so far away.  So they are going South and the unsullied are going West to useless Casterly Rock. That splits her Army three ways. Mistake number one in Westoros.

Ill be interested in why Tyrion thinks Casterly Rock is so important for them to have? So what if Cersai and Jamie retreat back to Lannisport, so that isn't a good enough reason. Sounds like Tyrion has a personal reason for wanting back his family home.

Olenna tries warn Dany to follow her instincts more, Olenna knows this is a mistake. I thought splitting up your army is almost always a mistake that generals make in hindsight.

Tyrions bad idea ends up with Yara and Ellaria captured and the Fleet conquered and Olennas all important lands taken over by the Lannisters. Jamie will outsmart the smart brother tonight. 

I have said all summer that Highgarden was important strategically and If I know that Tyrion knows it. This is a HUGE mistake he suggests but Danys fault because the Buck Stops With Her, its ultimately her decision. 

How has she been feeding her Army up until now anyway? The logistics of war are not very glamorous but it's how wars are won. Cut off supplies, army's can't function. Casterly Rock is a useless target. If I remember my map correctly, Dragonstone is on the East coast near Kings Landing and Casterly Rock is on the west coast. So she sends the unsullied all the way there for what? 

Splitting your forces is not inherently a mistake when you massively outnumber the enemy and have multiple objectives.

Casterly Rock is a highly valuable target.  It's the seat of Lannister power, and taking it should have the same impact on Lannister morale as taking Winterfell did to Robb Stark's campaign.  And it would disrupt the Lannisters' power base in the Westerlands.

That this doesn't happen is just because the show routinely suspends logic in regard to the villains.

See also, the fact that the Lannisters are able to take Highgarden is because the Tyrells' bannermen bizarrely switch sides even though Jaime just correctly outlined last episode that they have no reason to do that.  That's another plot gift for Cersei.

[shireenbamfatheon]

On 19/7/2017 at 5:33 PM, SimoneS said:

About the Tarlys, I don't have any sympathy for anyone who chooses sides with Cersei at this stage. Look at Cersei sitting on the Iron Throne, a woman who destroyed her family and alienated her allies. For goodness sake, she blew up the Sept in the middle of King's Landing.  Westeros already has a Mad Queen. She is deluded and power hungry and ultimately doomed. 

 

So, what, Randyll is supposed to bend the knee to Dany who's allied herself with Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, who killed two innocent children in cold blood, one of them their kin, and then killed the rightful ruler of Dorne so they could rule in his place? The Ironborn who've spent the last several years pillaging and raping a kingdom? Theon who killed two little boys, burned their corpses and hanged them from the walls of Winterfell? The Dothraki whose entire existence revolves around rape, slavery and murder? Dany who crucifies random people without ascertaining individual guilt and feeds random highborn to her dragons when she's mad?

Cersei's vicious and cunning and cruel, but let's not pretend Dany and her allies don't have blood on their hands. At least Cersei eliminated her enemies because they were working against her; Ellaria's daughters literally joked around when they murdered their own cousin, Yara promised her men they'd get to return to the old ways of the Ironborn before Dany forbade it, which means clearly she has zero regrets about her people raping and murdering innocents, and the Dothraki are excited to continue with their usual program, only on a massive scale. 

[shireenbamfatheon]

I feel like all I do on this board the rare times I visit is complain, but whatever.

Dany criticizing Ned for being friends with someone who sent assassins after a child is ridiculously hypocritical considering half her inner circle consists of unrepentant child killers. Dany fails to realize how similar her actions are to Robert's. Color me not surprised. And I don't remember if it's different in the show, but Ned cut off all contact with Robert for not punishing Tywin following the sack. 

Dany bringing up her rape may satisfy some viewers, but comes out of left field and has no proper build-up considering she was still calling Drogo her sun and stars last season and pretty much copies his speech to the Dothraki in 6x06, which shows she still has a great deal of admiration and respect for him (never mind that his speech contained a promise to rape Westerosi women as well). 

Dany's "I don't believe in God or any faith, I believe in myself" is laughably bad and arrogant. It might have been intended as a moment of empowerment, but given Clarke's track record with speeches, I think I'm gonna alternate between cringing and laughing. 

 

[Ambrosefolly]

1 hour ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

So, what, Randyll is supposed to bend the knee to Dany who's allied herself with Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, who killed two innocent children in cold blood, one of them their kin, and then killed the rightful ruler of Dorne so they could rule in his place? The Ironborn who've spent the last several years pillaging and raping a kingdom? Theon who killed two little boys, burned their corpses and hanged them from the walls of Winterfell? The Dothraki whose entire existence revolves around rape, slavery and murder? Dany who crucifies random people without ascertaining individual guilt and feeds random highborn to her dragons when she's mad?

Cersei's vicious and cunning and cruel, but let's not pretend Dany and her allies don't have blood on their hands. At least Cersei eliminated her enemies because they were working against her; Ellaria's daughters literally joked around when they murdered their own cousin, Yara promised her men they'd get to return to the old ways of the Ironborn before Dany forbade it, which means clearly she has zero regrets about her people raping and murdering innocents, and the Dothraki are excited to continue with their usual program, only on a massive scale. 

 

I am not a Dany lover. But I will say a majority of the people she killed were enslavers and raptist. She probably killed less innocents than Cersei did when she blew up the Sept of Balor Don't forget the explosion took out at least a block of a crowded city. And at least she is forbidding the Ironborn and Dorthoki

I will be severely disappointed in the show if they don't address/gloss over the murder of Marcella, Trystan and Doran, especially since Tyrion was the one that sent Marcella to Dorne.

[Stephanie1216]

I was reading the threads about Dany perceiving Ned Stark as the bad guy.

Actually, how selfish was Rheagar and Lyanna for running off together? I suppose that's where their story is headed. 

Even Littlefinger said something like, "how many thousands had to die because Rheagar chose your aunt?" He's exactly right and when he said that I decided that LF actually know the truth about R + L. Don't know if he put Jon together with them but he probably has. 

How selfish were they? R had a wife and kids, and a sick father. R should have somehow taken over the power from his father if he was that sick. Lyanna certainly learned her father and brother were headed to KL and how they were killed. The wars over by the time Jon is born. R and L both died anyway? 

Did they justify their destruction by saying their baby was meant to be or the Prince that was Promised etc? All parents think their kid is going to set the world on fire, then we all learn it's just a regular kid.

[Oscirus]

3 hours ago, Stephanie1216 said:

So tonight Tyrion convinces Dany to send her Greyjoy fleet back to Dorne.  Why on earth did the Ironborn and the Dornish travel to Dragonstone to start with if he's just sending them back and so far away.  So they are going South and the unsullied are going West to useless Casterly Rock. That splits her Army three ways. Mistake number one in Westoros.

Ill be interested in why Tyrion thinks Casterly Rock is so important for them to have? So what if Cersai and Jamie retreat back to Lannisport, so that isn't a good enough reason. Sounds like Tyrion has a personal reason for wanting back his family home.

Olenna tries warn Dany to follow her instincts more, Olenna knows this is a mistake. I thought splitting up your army is almost always a mistake that generals make in hindsight.

Tyrions bad idea ends up with Yara and Ellaria captured and the Fleet conquered and Olennas all important lands taken over by the Lannisters. Jamie will outsmart the smart brother tonight. 

I have said all summer that Highgarden was important strategically and If I know that Tyrion knows it. This is a HUGE mistake he suggests but Danys fault because the Buck Stops With Her, its ultimately her decision. 

How has she been feeding her Army up until now anyway? The logistics of war are not very glamorous but it's how wars are won. Cut off supplies, army's can't function. Casterly Rock is a useless target. If I remember my map correctly, Dragonstone is on the East coast near Kings Landing and Casterly Rock is on the west coast. So she sends the unsullied all the way there for what? 

Ill be curious to see how he talks her into this. She needs a military strategist apparently Tyrion is a good domestic economic leader but not a military leader. Too bad Bronn isn't with him, Bronn. Could have set him straight.

She splits the Army three ways and loses 1/3 has another 1/3 on the West Coast doing nothing (the unsullied are good at doing nothing) while the Tyrells get their asses kicked by Lannisters? All she has at Dragonstone is the Dothraki now. Three of her Allies are OUT Ellaria/Dorne Yara/fleet and Olenna/Highgarden/food 

HOW STUPID this is going to tick me off tonight 

i will ask again who has the damn bridge at the Twins? By now, the Lannisters I guess

Tyrion's playing the long game, the thinking is that you can't just force your will on people.  Allowing enemies to retreat and then meet up just to take back Kings landing likely with more political support since the majority of her army is foreigners would be bad. They would've taken  highgarden with or without the split since  even Olenna didn't even know that she lost her army.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Oscirus

[Oscirus]

1 hour ago, Stephanie1216 said:

I was reading the threads about Dany perceiving Ned Stark as the bad guy.

Actually, how selfish was Rheagar and Lyanna for running off together? I suppose that's where their story is headed. 

Even Littlefinger said something like, "how many thousands had to die because Rheagar chose your aunt?" He's exactly right and when he said that I decided that LF actually know the truth about R + L. Don't know if he put Jon together with them but he probably has. 

How selfish were they? R had a wife and kids, and a sick father. R should have somehow taken over the power from his father if he was that sick. Lyanna certainly learned her father and brother were headed to KL and how they were killed. The wars over by the time Jon is born. R and L both died anyway? 

Did they justify their destruction by saying their baby was meant to be or the Prince that was Promised etc? All parents think their kid is going to set the world on fire, then we all learn it's just a regular kid.

I'm guessing Rhaegar is going to justify it with the prophecy, it doesn't help that Lyanna is different then most women and beautiful ( seriously, what if Lyanna was ugly as shit?).  Lyanna was a teenager and probably didn't realize the ramifications of what she was doing.  Rhaegar likely whispered into her ear the story of Aegon's children and how they married for love and how Aegon had to end up sucking it up when they married for love as opposed to political advantages.

 

I just realized that Euron is a younger brother, he's dangerous and he clearly wants power. Could he be the valonquar?

Edited July 23, 2017 by Oscirus

[Edith]

We got confirmation that friki or his source has watched the episodes. He said that M/GW sex scene was in this episode while Lads had said episode 3.

Summary and order of scenes for ep3

Jon & Davos arrive at Dragonstone; are received by Tyrion & Missandei. They look w/ suspicion as the Dothraki take their boat away; they have to hand over their weapons. As they walk up towards the Throne Room, Dragon flies over their heads, Jon & Davos duck instinctively. Tyrion politely offers his hand to help Jon get up. Then FD talks about whether Jon & Tyrion are still brothers-in-law or not (marriage not consummated).

Mel & Varys are talking while watching Jon & Co coming up the path. Varys asks Mel what now, Mel says she'll go to Volantis or who knows where and Varys remember, if u go now u won't be able to come back (Varys is aware that something is brewing ). 

Jonerys round 1: Dany on the throne, in all of her majestic glory Stormborn, Unburnt, Broker of Chains ... receives Jon & demands he bends the knee, Jon "neah". First meeting is tensed (Starks are traitors for siding w/ Robert vs. Aerys killed Brandon & Rickard Stark). Dany is frustrated that Jon is the only one who responded to her ravens (the rest of lords ignored her). Jon tells her about the threat coming from the Norf, and he wants dragonglass. Dany is incredulous of Jon's story. Here Davos has Jon's back again w/ a great speech (the one f. the trailers) . They go back & forward kneel! - WW - kneel! - WW. First meeting is a draw.

Dany gets even more bummed out as Varys informs her she just lost 2 allies (Thon/Yara & The Sand Snakes) 

Jon & Tyrion talk about WWs and I want dragonglass . Tyrion is disconcerted but he knows Jon, he not crazy. 

Jon & Dany meet on the terrace where they talk about dragons (which "could" be flying in circles above them) but the main subject is and I want dragonglass

The assault on Casterly Rock - Some Unsullied sneak in using Tyrion's plumbing tunnels, some climb the walls but once inside "almost nobody's home" (the Lannister soldiers are busy attacking Highgarden.). While inside CR someone (unknown) attacks the ships that carried the Unsullied rendering the entire operation a disaster (the Lannisters outsmarted them). 

King's Landing Cersei & Jaime getting busy (in bed), someone's at the door, Cersei come in! much to Jaime's dismay. News that Euron has "landed". 

Euron parades gloriously his enchained captives through the city. Full of himself enters the Throne Room while everyone is cheering, when passing by Jaime how does she like it wink wink. He didn't exactly win Cersei's heart but she is pleased to her "gift". 

The queen's revenge - in the dungeons under the Red Keep, Tyene & Ellaria both in chains; Ellaria is terrified when seeing the Mountain. It's time for Cersei to return the favor, she puts some ointment on her lips & gives Tyene "the kiss of death". Ellaria watches helplessly as her "baby" dies. 

Enter debt collector extraordinaire Tycho Nestoris"pay up!". Cersei tries to negotiate (I'll keep the peace) and Tycho if u can't pay don't worry about me, I found someone who has troops & dragons. So Cersei plans to pay the Iron Bank using the plunder from Highgarden. 

Jaime & Randyll march into HG; Jaime heads for Olenna, finds her, hands her a cup full of poison, she takes it and, w/ a signature turn of phrase, she will let Jaime know that she was responsible for Joffrey's death. 

Winterfell Sansa has her plate full w/ ruling while LF keeps whispering in her ear like tinnitus ("... fight every battle always in u're mind")

Bran & Meera arrive at WF, Sansa very excited to see him, Bran just being "weird". Sansa sees Bran has changed, he only wants to go in the Godswood (get in the Matrix). Bran tells Sansa that he knows what happened w/ Ramsey on their wedding night (Sansa's unsettled face after that talk is in the trailer) thus making her believe that his visions are true.

In Oldtown - Sam cures Jorah but instead of congratulations from the Maesters he gets additional chores as punishment for not following the orders. 

NOTE: In ep.3 vid, FD says that Grey Worm & Missandei love scene is in ep. 2, despite of what the leaks say.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6odd85/twimc_summary_of_frikidoctors_ep_3_scenes_in/

Edited July 24, 2017 by Edith

[Raachel2008]

10 hours ago, Stephanie1216 said:

Regarding Arya being twisted.

I didn't say she is twisted but that she has been up to some twisted stuff. There isa difference.

 

10 hours ago, GrailKing said:

think we are watching a story told by either Bran , Sansa or Samwell Tarly ( AKA GRRM )Grand Maester, in service to House Stark and the realm.

I've read this theory before, and I'm inclined to think that if this is correct, Sam is the best candidate.

1 hour ago, Edith said:

 

Winterfell Sansa has her plate full w/ ruling while LF keeps whispering in her ear like tinnitus ("... fight every battle always in u're mind")

Gosh, this is ridiculous. Jon should have chocked LF and buried his body or feed him to Ramsay's dogs wherever they are.

[GrailKing]

18 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

I've read this theory before, and I'm inclined to think that if this is correct, Sam is the best candidate.

After that Library scene more convinced.

going back to finish.

Be back later.

[Azi]

I'm sure everyone and their hamsters have seen the trailer for next week by now, but here it is anyway:
 

Why does Dany have that consumption look going on? She didn't in the first episode. Is it the lighting at Dragonstone? 
I still can't tell if I like Euron or not, but at least he isn't torturing people on screen so far, so I can stomach him as a villain. Let he gross stuff happen in the name of good if you need to have it aka Sam can keep it.

You know, I wonder if Dany burns the Tarlys cause - apart from not bending the knee - they betrayed Olenna, whom she seemed to respect and who told her to "be a dragon".

Edited July 24, 2017 by Azi

[Bannon]

On 7/23/2017 at 2:09 PM, SeanC said:

Splitting your forces is not inherently a mistake when you massively outnumber the enemy and have multiple objectives.

Casterly Rock is a highly valuable target.  It's the seat of Lannister power, and taking it should have the same impact on Lannister morale as taking Winterfell did to Robb Stark's campaign.  And it would disrupt the Lannisters' power base in the Westerlands.

That this doesn't happen is just because the show routinely suspends logic in regard to the villains.

See also, the fact that the Lannisters are able to take Highgarden is because the Tyrells' bannermen bizarrely switch sides even though Jaime just correctly outlined last episode that they have no reason to do that.  That's another plot gift for Cersei.

Exactly. Whether it being Jon Snow's giant not swinging a tree trunk to send a couple hundred Bolton pikemen flying like tenpins in 5 minutes, or Euron conjuring a thousand ships out of thin air, so it can effect a sneak attack, all logic is abandoned (don't get me started on a wooden fleet flinging flaming explosives UP at a giant freaking stone pyramid, as the defenders in the pyramid have nothing to respond with) for purposes of advancing the plot. Really dumb, and it need not be this way.

[DIrtyCooper]

To those who are avoiding discussion of the leaks/spoilers for remaining episodes of Season 7, you may wish to stop reading this post as I have read and will be discussing many of the leaks that have been circulating.  

 

Based on watching the first two episodes of the season so far, it seems like the leaks are pretty much totally accurate, at least for those two episodes.  Assuming that the rest of the leaks are accurate also, the only one that I really want to get everyone's thoughts on is the supposed Dragonpit scene which is supposed to take place in the finale episode of this season, if the leaks are to be believed.  All of the leaks seem to be in agreement that a TON of major characters are present and that the purpose is to show everyone the captured WW from the previous episode and demonstrate that it can only be killed with dragonglass (or possibly fire, can't remember which method the leaks said would be used).  The leaks all have reported that the Mountain or possibly the Hound will hack the WW up into pieces but that it will still be alive, possibly moving towards Cersei which will freak her out, then presumably Jon or some other character kills it.  Then, supposedly Cersei agrees to help fight the WW, per the leaks, but later tells Jaime that she doesn't rely plan on helping, etc.  So, if the leaks for that scene are to be believed, everyone just watches the WW get killed, agrees to help each other, and leaves peacefully....despite all the bitter, bitter enemies all present in one location?  That just seems unbelievably anticlimactic to me for a season finale episode where a ton of major characters are gathered in one place.  For example, the Hound and the Mountain are supposedly both supposed to be there....and they are just going to walk off going their separate ways....no Cleganebowl or some other sort of major character death in that scene?  It just feels to me that there has got to be more to that scene than what the leaks have revealed, again assuming they are accurate to begin with.  Does anyone else agree, and if so, any speculation on what else might go down in that scene....is it too much to hope for Cleganebowl at the Dragonpit?  Just curious to get other people's thoughts on this topic in particular.

[Raachel2008]

14 minutes ago, DIrtyCooper said:

 That just seems unbelievably anticlimactic to me for a season finale episode where a ton of major characters are gathered in one place.  

Maybe it is a collective 'shit just got real' moment.

[Azi]

I'm not so secretly hoping that Cleganebowl will go the same way as "The dragon has three heads" will apparently go, but I've accepted that I'm standing pretty alone in that corner.

I don't think there will be something super major that the leaks have left out, simply because... why would they? No one had any problems with revealing all the other major stuff. I do think the scene will probably a lot more tense than all the descriptions we got (I felt the same way about scenes we knew would happen in the first two episodes), but the biggest HOLY SHIT moment is probably going to be the ice dragon and the wall coming down (... and maybe boatsex).
I mean. I wouldn't mind something cool we don't know of yet, but I doubt it.

[bubble sparkly]

Seems like they are going for a different type of climax featuring  Dany and Jon :p ......plus the wall coming down by ice dragon fire

[Guest]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 4:09 PM, SeanC said:

Splitting your forces is not inherently a mistake when you massively outnumber the enemy and have multiple objectives.

Casterly Rock is a highly valuable target.  It's the seat of Lannister power, and taking it should have the same impact on Lannister morale as taking Winterfell did to Robb Stark's campaign.  And it would disrupt the Lannisters' power base in the Westerlands.

That this doesn't happen is just because the show routinely suspends logic in regard to the villains.

See also, the fact that the Lannisters are able to take Highgarden is because the Tyrells' bannermen bizarrely switch sides even though Jaime just correctly outlined last episode that they have no reason to do that.  That's another plot gift for Cersei.

And yet, despite Tyrion being the architect of this particular battle plan against his siblings and his home (and frankly I thought it was bizarre how matter of fact they were about Tyrion sending an army to take Casterly Rock)., no one will question his loyalty to Dany after they are defeated on every front initially.

[Eyes High]

User /Dragonglassbenjen at /Freefolk has been posting snippets of dialogue from the first few episodes and various other spoilers before they have aired, with perfect accuracy so far. Here are their snippets for 7x03, apart from Dany's big speech which I believe was already posted upthread:

Jon vs. Dany, the first words they say to each other:

Quote

D: Thank you for traveling so far, my lord. I hope the seas weren't too rough.

J: The winds were kind, Your Grace. (Yada, yada, yada.)

D: So I assume, my lord, you're here to bend the knee.

J: I am not.

D: Well, that is unfortunate. You've travelled all this way to break faith with House Targaryen?

J: Break faith? Your father burned my grandfather alive. He burned my uncle alive. He would have burned the Seven Kingdoms--

D: My father was an evil man. On behalf of House Targaryen, I ask your forgiveness for the crimes he committed against your family. And I ask you not to judge a daughter for the sins of her father. (Yada, yada, yada.) I am the last Targaryen, Jon Snow. Honor the pledge your ancestor made to mine. Bend the knee and I will name you Warden of the North. (Yada, yada, yada.)

J: You're right. You're not guilty of your father's crimes. And I'm not beholden to my ancestor's vows. (Yada, yada, yada.)

[Strictly speaking, Aerys didn't burn Brandon alive, did he? Brandon strangled himself to death trying to save Rickard. I can't recall whether the show ever specified the manner of Brandon's death, although the pilot had a cut scene showing Brandon and Rickard's deaths if I'm not mistaken.]

The entirety of LF's speech to Sansa excerpted for the trailer:

Quote

Don't fight in the North, or the South. Fight every battle, everywhere, always, in your mind. Everyone is your enemy. Everyone is your friend. Every possible series of events is happening all at once. Live that way and nothing will surprise you. Everything that happens will be something that you've seen before.

Bran letting Sansa know that he knows what happened with Ramsay:

Quote

I'm sorry for all that's happened to you. I'm sorry it had to happen here, in our home. It was so beautiful that night. Snow falling, just like now. And you were so beautiful, in your white wedding dress.

Olenna confessing that she murdered Joffrey:

Quote

I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes blood red, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me. A shocking scene. Not at all what I intended. You see, I'd never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Eyes High

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

D: Thank you for traveling so far, my lord. I hope the seas weren't too rough.

J: The winds were kind, Your Grace. (Yada, yada, yada.)

D: So I assume, my lord, you're here to bend the knee.

J: I am not.

D: Well, that is unfortunate. You've travelled all this way to break faith with House Targaryen?

J: Break faith? Your father burned my grandfather alive. He burned my uncle alive. He would have burned the Seven Kingdoms--

D: My father was an evil man. On behalf of House Targaryen, I ask your forgiveness for the crimes he committed against your family. And I ask you not to judge a daughter for the sins of her father. (Yada, yada, yada.) I am the last Targaryen, Jon Snow. Honor the pledge your ancestor made to mine. Bend the knee and I will name you Warden of the North. (Yada, yada, yada.)

J: You're right. You're not guilty of your father's crimes. And I'm not beholden to my ancestor's vows. (Yada, yada, yada.)

I can see it now, This is D&D's idea of foreplay.

Bran's lines sounds really creepy.

Is LF selling some kind of leadership workshop? 

Oh, Olenna, you will be missed.

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

[Strictly speaking, Aerys didn't burn Brandon alive, did he? Brandon strangled himself to death trying to save Rickard. I can't recall whether the show ever specified the manner of Brandon's death, although the pilot had a cut scene showing Brandon and Rickard's deaths if I'm not mistaken.]

IIRC, Jamie taunted Ned telling him how it was in the room when Aerys killed Brandon and Rickard, the people watching and all, but I'm pretty sure the only thing Jamie said is that Aerys burned Rickard.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Oscirus]

7 hours ago, DIrtyCooper said:

veryone just watches the WW get killed, agrees to help each other, and leaves peacefully....despite all the bitter, bitter enemies all present in one location?  That just seems unbelievably anticlimactic to me for a season finale episode where a ton of major characters are gathered in one place.  For example, the Hound and the Mountain are supposedly both supposed to be there....and they are just going to walk off going their separate ways....no Cleganebowl or some other sort of major character death in that scene?

Despite Tyrion being his father's son and breaking with tradition to end war quickly, it's generally not a good thing to attack people during parley type events. So it feels realistic. I think the tension is in the fact that things could happen even if they don't

3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

And yet, despite Tyrion being the architect of this particular battle plan against his siblings and his home (and frankly I thought it was bizarre how matter of fact they were about Tyrion sending an army to take Casterly Rock)., no one will question his loyalty to Dany after they are defeated on every front initially.

Casterly rock may be seen as his fault, but the other two losses definitely can't. Besides, if anyone is to blame, it should be Dany for planning an invasion without a legit general.

[SeanC]

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

[Strictly speaking, Aerys didn't burn Brandon alive, did he? Brandon strangled himself to death trying to save Rickard. I can't recall whether the show ever specified the manner of Brandon's death, although the pilot had a cut scene showing Brandon and Rickard's deaths if I'm not mistaken.]

Catelyn only heard about the exact manner of Rickard and Brandon's deaths from Jaime, as I recall, so Jon is probably fuzzy on the details.

[YaddaYadda]

Do the things Littlefinger says make any kind of sense anymore? They're just words that are cobbled together. Maybe it's because the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet, but I have no clue what his ass is going on about. Can Brienne just stand next to Sansa all the time?

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Do the things Littlefinger says make any kind of sense anymore? They're just words that are cobbled together. Maybe it's because the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet, but I have no clue what his ass is going on about.

To me, it seemed like he was saying that if you're always running through every possible scenario in your mind and contemplating every possible eventuality, you'll always be prepared and you'll never be caught off-guard. LF doesn't seem to be taking his own advice, though, given how easily he's done in by Sansa and Arya even though the former has made it clear that she has no more use for him and the latter will establish herself upon her arrival as extremely dangerous and hostile.

[SimoneS]

Grey Worm did tell Tyrion that he was no military tactician which has been proven true. Unfortunately, Daenerys lost Bannister Selmy who would have been her best general and military tactician and she left Daario behind in Mereen. The good news is that Jorah will be returning soon and he will be a much been general than Tyrion. I just hope that Grey Worm and most of Daenerys' army is not lost by then. l wonder if we ever see Daario again. I liked him a lot and miss his irreverent humor.

As for Littlefinger, I am going to cheer when he gets what he deserves. I wonder what D&D will do with Sansa after Littefinger is gone. He has been at the center of her story for so long. Maybe Arya will teach her to fight so she will practical skills to help protect herself in the upcoming wars.

Edited July 25, 2017 by SimoneS

[YaddaYadda]

Episode 4 is called: The Spoils of War

[Edith]

Never mind! YaddaYadda already said it ;)

Edited July 25, 2017 by Edith

[Tikichick]

I've just realized the poetry of the same person whose very existence is at the very heart of this war has the potential of standing in the place of some power at the end of it.  I wonder, once he is clued in to his actual parentage will Jon feel any differently about ruling?  Danerys largely feels compelled to rule simply because of hers.

[Minneapple]

So Dany is actually acting a bit like Viserys, who she noted used to imagine the people of Westeros would welcome the Targs with bells on. She's sending letters and demanding everyone bend the knee, but why should they? 

Also given how Daenerys feels that the throne is her birthright, I wonder how she will feel when there is another Targaryen who has a claim to the throne, possibly better than her claim. It may put a bit of a damper on date night.

[Katsullivan]

30 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

So Dany is actually acting a bit like Viserys, who she noted used to imagine the people of Westeros would welcome the Targs with bells on. She's sending letters and demanding everyone bend the knee, but why should they? 

Also given how Daenerys feels that the throne is her birthright, I wonder how she will feel when there is another Targaryen who has a claim to the throne, possibly better than her claim. It may put a bit of a damper on date night.

The point of asking  nobles (not smallfolk, which is what Viserys was told and what Dany was referring to) to come and bend the knee is because you understand that they don't welcome you. Aegon the Conqueror did the same thing and he wasn't imagining that the 7 Kings of Westeros at the time would welcome him. He was throwing down the gauntlet. He declared himself King - 

Quote

There shall be only one

Told everyone else to kneel and when they didn't, he roasted them with his dragons.

When men are aggressive, it's regarded as bad-ass but when a woman is, she's insane. 

I think it's been argued already whether or not Jon has a better claim that Dany's, by Westerosi precedent so I won't touch that.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Katsullivan

[ElizaD]

25 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

I think it's been argued already whether or not Jon has a better claim that Dany's, at least by Westerosi precedent. I think it depends on how strongly one adheres to the theory that men are more deserving rulers simply because they have penises. 

The succession was discussed earlier, but in most Western monarchies the son of the heir becomes first in line even if his father dies before becoming king. Legally, Jon would be the heir in both Westeros and England. If Prince Charles (Rhaegar) died tomorrow, I'd think his son William (Aegon), his grandchildren George and Charlotte, and his younger child Harry (Jon/Rhaenys) would all have a better claim to the throne than his sister Anne (Dany). The succession would have gone Rhaegar - Aegon - legitimate Jon - Viserys and if they all died it would have gotten messier since Rhaegar had a daughter, a sister and male Baratheon relatives descended from a female Targaryen, so they would have had to choose either a woman or a man whose accession would nonetheless have implied that female claims to the throne were indeed valid. After the Dance of the Dragons the Targaryens apparently adopted a system closer to the Russian monarchy: women only inherit after all male heirs are dead, so sons - brothers - uncles - cousins. It can be argued that Dany deserves the throne more if you believe that her talents and character make her more suited to being a good ruler, but if Jon is legitimate and not a bastard, his claim is better than hers and would be even if he had also been born a woman: it's not simply because he has a penis, it's because he's in the direct line of succession.

[YaddaYadda]

I think that one of the most fascinating cases of succession is located in Dorne. Nymeria had a daughter by her first husband Mors Martell and a son by her third husband, Davos Dayne who was the Sword of the Morning, and when the time came, it was her daughter who took over the leadership of Dorne, not the son. Had it been the son, Dorne would be ruled from Starfall instead of Sunspear. 

My mind is always blown by this and how Nymeria had a this massive impact on Dorne that the laws she brought with her are the rule of the land.

[Eyes High]

57 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I think that one of the most fascinating cases of succession is located in Dorne. Nymeria had a daughter by her first husband Mors Martell and a son by her third husband, Davos Dayne who was the Sword of the Morning, and when the time came, it was her daughter who took over the leadership of Dorne, not the son. Had it been the son, Dorne would be ruled from Starfall instead of Sunspear. 

My mind is always blown by this and how Nymeria had a this massive impact on Dorne that the laws she brought with her are the rule of the land.

Speaking of which, it sounds as if Tyene will be dead by the end of 7x03, and Ellaria will be indefinitely imprisoned, either to starve to death, or to be kept alive as she is forced to watch her daughter's body rot. (Lads said the former, /Dragonglassbenjen has been hinting at the latter, if I recall correctly.) So who takes over in Dorne? Oberyn has other daughters in the show universe. Would it be them, or some other family? Sam seems poised in the show universe to wind up ruling in the Reach given the deaths of the Tyrells and of his father and brother, but the Dorne situation seems much murkier. I'm wondering whether the implications of this for Dornish leadership will be dealt with at any point in the two remaining seasons, or whether Dorne will be simply written out and never mentioned again.

Similarly, while the Martells and Sand Snakes being wiped out in the show doesn't necessarily mean that the same will happen in the books--although I think we can rule out Arianne ending up on the throne at the end of ADOS--I'm wondering whether Doran's plans will end in a similar catastrophe for the family, and who it is that winds up ruling Dorne when the dust settles. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

On 7/23/2017 at 4:49 PM, shireenbamfatheon said:

So, what, Randyll is supposed to bend the knee to Dany who's allied herself with Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, who killed two innocent children in cold blood, one of them their kin, and then killed the rightful ruler of Dorne so they could rule in his place? The Ironborn who've spent the last several years pillaging and raping a kingdom? Theon who killed two little boys, burned their corpses and hanged them from the walls of Winterfell? The Dothraki whose entire existence revolves around rape, slavery and murder? Dany who crucifies random people without ascertaining individual guilt and feeds random highborn to her dragons when she's mad?

Cersei's vicious and cunning and cruel, but let's not pretend Dany and her allies don't have blood on their hands. At least Cersei eliminated her enemies because they were working against her; Ellaria's daughters literally joked around when they murdered their own cousin, Yara promised her men they'd get to return to the old ways of the Ironborn before Dany forbade it, which means clearly she has zero regrets about her people raping and murdering innocents, and the Dothraki are excited to continue with their usual program, only on a massive scale. 

It isn't about who has more blood on their hands. Tarly should ally himself with Olenna because Daenerys is going to crush her enemies and win. The reason that Cersei has so many enemies is because her dumbass created them. She gave the High Sparrow power to destroy Margaery and Loras who were HER family's strongest and wealthiest allies. Anyone who allies with Cersei is an even dumber dumbass than she is.

Edited July 25, 2017 by SimoneS

[ElizaD]

35 minutes ago, doram said:

@ElizaD there was a discussion about this just recently. Westeros only loosely adopts 'conventional' succession laws. For example the equivalent of Queen Victoria would never have been crowned Queen in Westeros.

At this moment in Westeros history, Jon's claim is no better than Dany's especially since his legitimacy is suspect. 

Anyway, laws change all the time and most of the time, it's the Golden Rule (Aladdin version) that applies.

Yes, no Victoria because the Targaryens preferred to ignore the claims of women. Jon has the better claim under the old system, but of course power is what matters right now when the realm has broken down so spectacularly. Dany would change the law of succession for sure, and even if it is Jon who ends up ruling, I think it would be in character for him to make it clear that in his royal line daughters will be preferred over uncles and other male relatives, as is done in the rest of the realm; he might not go as far as absolutely equal Dornish succession, though.

I've always been interested in the question of who gets to rule which castle when the series ends, but now that it's looking extremely unlikely that we'll get a seventh book I'll never find out the fates of the minor houses. IIRC, it's been confirmed that there has never been a ruling Lady of Winterfell, so Sansa might be the first if she lives. I hope the Dreadfort will be given to one of the Starks, but the show might consider its fate a minor matter undeserving of screentime; Show Sansa isn't referred to as the Lady of Winterfell and the Dreadfort in official material. Sam might be given Highgarden since he's part of the main cast and his future needs to be made clear if he's not killed off. I guess we can assume that someone will let poor Edmure out of the dungeon, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Riverlands are totally ignored now that the Freys are dead; still, there's at least a chance that he'll return since he's the uncle of main characters. There's not a single character left in Dorne after 7x03, so I expect the show will never mention it again and we won't get any clues about whether it's some other Sand Snake or another house that ends up ruling it in the books.

[Azi]

Someone on reddit translated Frikidoctors "speculations" for episode 5:

Quote

Content may or may not be 100% I’m just translating what Friki has posted. I know this episode has been translated already but given my fluency in Spanish and English I think I could add or improve on some things. I’ve translates things as Friki spoke, whether the scenes are in the correct order or not, I personally do not know.

Friki starts off by apologizing to a reddit user by the name Everyfckngchicken for not giving him proper credit on a video he made, respect for that.

The Episode starts off with the aftermath of the battle of the field of fire http://bit.ly/2uSUmY7 where the Lannisters and Tarlys got their asses kicked. Bronn, after saving Jamie’s life asks him what’s wrong with him and why on earth would he do something as crazy as charging towards a dragon. Jamie starts to wonder how he’s going to tell Cersei that their forces took a massive loss and how the plunder from high garden is now lost and now have no way to pay the Iron Bank. The scene cuts to Dany’s army also facing the aftermath of the battle (handling prisoners and so on) but also the judgment of Randyll and Dickon Tarly, Dany tells the Tarlys to bend the knee and serve her but Randyll who already swore an oath of Cersei and that she is his queen, Dickon also follows in his father’s example and denies Dany as well which is when Dany orders Drogon to roast them which horrifies Tyrion who says its unnecessary and brutal (never explained how he gets to the field of fire) Friki then discusses that it’ll be interesting to see what the soldiers and other minor houses who might have seen these events decide to do after the show of power by Dany, weather some bend the knee or not isn’t stated.

Scene at Dragonstone is next where Dany returns with Drogon (doesn’t mention what the Dothraki do when she leaves or if they return with her) When she arrives at Dragonstone Jon Snow is there waiting for her, Drogon lands in front of Jon which is this scene http://bit.ly/2uLvodF and when she does Dany uses it as a show of power and Jon is a little taken back at first since well it’s a dragon but when Drogon (the most ferocious of the three) gets close, Jon pets him a bit and Drogon allows it which leaves Dany in shock and continues her Intrigue for Jon. After she gets down Friki says they talk about her dragons and how they aren’t beast to her but her children. At this point Jorah Mormont arrives at Dragonstone http://bit.ly/2uTjtdk Friki then jokes how now that he’s been cured of dragon scale and now that Dario is back in Essos that Jorah will have a clear path to Dany but then he sees Jon and is automatically friend zoned… again… (not that he was ever out but w/e) Dany is very happy that Jorah is back and healthy but Jorah is skeptical of Jon Snow (whether Jorah knows who Jon is from the start is not mentioned) there is a point where Jon figures out who Jorah is (son of Jeor, Jon’s mentor at castle black) they end up warming up to each other Friki states that being both of the north and both having daddy issues pretty much brings them together (Friki shows a screen shot of a leak where it also states that Jon offers Long claw back to Jorah since it’s his house’s sword but Jorah turns him down saying his father gave it to Jon for a reason…. Whether this happens this episode or later on isn’t mentioned but I’m pretty sure it’s later on)

Winterfell is next where Bran has warged into a flock of ravens http://bit.ly/2utnkge beyond the wall to see what the Night King is up to but the NK senses it and whether bran is forced out of his vision or leaves out of fear is unknown but the NK does indeed sense him. Friki goes on to ask why bran would warg an entire flock and not just one since it would be a little stealthier (even though the NK would’ve sensed his presence either way) and Friki says that he does so because he will send these ravens to send messages across Westeros (doesn’t state how they get these messages or if they already had them tied to their feet)

Back to Dragonstone where Jon gets a raven stating that Arya and Bran have arrived back at Winterfell which makes Jon happy but doesn’t have the time to think about it. Jon doesn’t see bran or Arya this season (fml) Friki also says that the raven should also include information about what he (Bran) saw while warged into the ravens to let him know they (the great other) are coming close. Tyrion and varys talk how Tyrion wonders if Dany will be as brutal as her father and how Dany did things that were unnecessary (burning the Tarlys) and what they should do about it. They then decide to plead to Cersei about the great other and to join them to pause or end the war since every man in Westeros will be needed to fight the great other. Cersei being the hard headed bitch that she is would not listen to Tyrion (especially since she hates him) so they get in contact with Bronn (who after witnessing what the war will be like decided to help set the meeting up) to trick Jamie to meet with them since Jamie might not be willing to talk to Tyrion since he killed their father.

Tyrion use Ser Davos’s smuggling talents to sneak past Kings Landing’s defenses to meet with Jamie. Bronn leads Jamie to a sort of catacombs where Tyrion is at (Friki states that Jamie won’t harm Tyrion since Jamie now knows for certain that Tyrion didn’t kill Joffrey and that their dad just wanted to kill Tyrion and then goes on to say how Tyrion might be a secret Targaryen but it’s not related to this episode just back story from Friki) So Tyrion tries to convince Jamie to tell Cersei to surrender but that she should join them to fight the great other. While they talk, Ser Davos is walking through kings landing through the armorers and blacksmiths when he runs into Gendry working as a blacksmith making swords and such. Davos jokes that he left him rowing and Gendry sees him and is happy to see him but also admits he’s tired of making swords specially since he’s making them for the Lannisters (those who killed his father) Davos invites him to come with him to which Gendry agrees, this is when he takes out a weapon he forged for himself, a Warhammer with a Stag carved into it (the sigil of House Baratheon and weapon of choice of his father) Tyrion, Davos and Gendry meet back where their boat was (a row boat that takes them to their ship) to go back to Dragonstone when two gold cloaks (the city watch aka police) stops them to ask questions (during a time of war no one can come and go as they please) Davos being the smuggler he is tells them they are traders to which the gold cloaks ask them what they trade to which Davos says they trade aphrodisiac crabs (aphrodisiac is a food that stimulates sexual desire.. westerosi Viagra?) and offers these crabs to them as a form of bribery to let them go, while Davos is working his smuggler magic, Gendry is getting a little nervous and has his hammer hidden in the boat trying not to raise suspicion but then Tyrion “the most famous dwarf in the world” Lannister is seen trying to sneak pass by the gold cloaks which automatically makes them see through Davos’s deception, this is when Gendry takes his war hammer out and kicks absolute ass, hitting one on the head and the other on the chest http://bit.ly/2uTb6hN (the leaked scene doesn’t make it look like the guy got hit in the chest but it may not be the final take they used in the episode) Friki then goes on to say but doesn’t make it clear if this does or doesn’t happen in THIS episode about how Jamie tells Cersei about him meeting with Tyrion (but from how he is telling it I think it’s his opinion but won’t happen this episode)

The three (Tyrion, Davos and Gendry) make it back to Dragonstone where Jon and Gendry meet for the first time, both being bastards and both meeting each other’s fathers makes them relate and become friends (Gendry doesn’t mention anything about Arya) another reunion that takes place in Dragonstone is between Jorah and Tyrion. Tyrion says that the Lannisters will not join because they don’t believe in the great other and think it’s a trap, Jon decides he must bring proof about the great other to the south so that all the kingdoms will join and fight as one. So Jon, Jorah, Davos (although a leak says Davos only goes to the wall and no further because of this age) and Gendry which is when we see the scene where Dany and Jon say goodbye to each other http://bit.ly/2vFkC5I which is when Jon tell Dany somewhere along the lines of “well if I don’t return you won’t have to deal with the king of the north anymore” to which Dany responds somewhere along the lines of “I’ve gotten used to him” (ohhhh shiiiiitttttt).

The following scene is at Eastwatch by the Sea, where those traveling from Dragonstone (yes there is a time machine let it go) meet Tormund where he and other wildlings have been manning the wall. When he’s there we are surprised when Tormund takes Jon to the ice cells where he has put the brotherhood without banners + the hound. Jon then offers them a chance to go beyond the wall with him after they tell him the red god wants them to go beyond the wall, Gendry doesn’t trust them however since they sold him to Stannis to get his blood sucked and who can blame him. Also, Jorah is recognized by Tormund (somehow) who knows his father was Jeor the lord commander who made their life hell for a long time fighting the free folk, then Jon sees the hound who knows what the he has done for Joffrey and some stuff that Sansa has told him he’d done so he doesn’t trust him either. But either way they decide to go together under Jon’s leadership and start to range beyond the wall to try to capture a wight to bring as proof.

In Winterfell little finger is trying to do little finger shit by stirring things up with the lords of the north saying TKITN has abandoned them and Sansa is trying to keep shit together but Arya sees that Sansa might want the North for herself and doesn’t exactly back Jon (who Arya loves most) Arya doesn’t trust Little Finger (especially since she was the cup bearer for Tywin at Harrenhal http://bit.ly/2eKCOH2 when little finger visited Tywin, she saw them together listening to their schemes but LF never recognizes her)… Arya starts to spy on him which LF being the cunning guy he is recognizes, LF also sees that she doesn’t have an agenda which he admits is dangerous since it’s hard to manipulate someone like that but he can try to deceive her… he pulls the letter Sansa had been made to sign in season two asking Robb to bend the knee and how Ned was a traitor and stuff and makes sure Arya sees him hiding it which Arya decides to look for it http://bit.ly/2tGEAQ6 .... LF knows that if Arya was to find this letter Arya will have even more suspicion that Sansa will want to overthrow Jon… When Arya Finds it LF is watching her find the letter http://bit.ly/2v41iSO and he believes everything is going to plan…

Old Town is last and we see Sam grow tired of the way the maesters are handling the great other and blinded by their knowledge he knows he must leave to Winterfell. Friki believes the catalyst that makes him leave is one of the ravens that bran sends about the army of the dead to which the maesters brush off as BS. Also we see Gilly continuing to learn how to read, she has been reading a diary or record of events by the now dead High Septon Maynard and she’s reading them to a uninterested or just busy Sam, she reads a piece that says Maynard “issued an annulment for a prince ‘ragger’ and remarried him to someone else in a secret ceremony in Dorne” (oohhhhh shiiiiittttttt) since Gilly is just now learning to read she mispronounces Rhaegar’s name which is why same doesn’t catch it (also Friki says that Sam doesn’t pay attention and doesn’t really make him think of anything but that it does come up later in the season when he speaks to Bran in Winterfell) during this time Sam decides to leave the Citadel knowing that no one there will help him achieve or help him with things happening in the north since there is only one person that believes what he says and even then it is dismissed. He, Gilly and baby Sam board a cart http://bit.ly/2tA1GE9 and leave oldtown with heartsbane and books he might have taken and head to Winterfell.

This episode is filled with so much and is one of the longer episodes, the same length as episode 1 and 2. Next is episode 6 which is the second longest episode IMDB clocks it at 71 mins Hope you enjoyed

[SimoneS]

I cannot wait for Jon and Daenerys' scenes. Jon and Drogon also. These sound like they will be as good as I have always hoped that they would be.

Tyrion really is the worse military advisor, followed closely by Varys. They are politicians and schemers, not warriors. Of course, Daenerys should brutality kill the Tarlys so the other lords bend the knee out of fear. Thousands of ordinary peoples' lives will be saved by making the lords submit now, rather than giving them false hope and having them continue to fight for Cersei.  This is the main strategy that every invading ruler has used since histories have been recorded and they (mainly men) were a million times more brutal than Daenerys has ever been. Next Varys and Tyrion come up with the dumbest plan on earth, plead with Cersei to help fight the Night King. The only explanation is that their IQs must have shrunk between last season and this one.

No matter how many times I have read it, the "risk our lives unnecessarily to capture a wight" plan sounds like the dumbest thing ever done on the show. I cannot imagine that it will play out any better on the screen, but we'll see.

Edited July 26, 2017 by SimoneS

[YaddaYadda]

2 hours ago, Azi said:

In Winterfell little finger is trying to do little finger shit by stirring things up with the lords of the north saying TKITN has abandoned them

He can go and die now. How is it that no one grabs from under the arms and string this guy up? Will no one going to think of the children? 

2 hours ago, Azi said:

Friki also says that the raven should also include information about what he (Bran) saw while warged into the ravens to let him know they (the great other) are coming close.

Friki believes the catalyst that makes him leave is one of the ravens that bran sends about the army of the dead to which the maesters brush off as BS.

I like this with Bran. I'm not impressed with the archmaesters or the one we know. But I wonder, if the maesters attached to the north send ravens to Oldtown about this, would they be more inclined to believe? 

2 hours ago, Azi said:

she reads a piece that says Maynard “issued an annulment for a prince ‘ragger’ and remarried him to someone else in a secret ceremony in Dorne”

Why in Dorne though?

I'm looking forward to Jaime/Tyrion, Tyrion/Bronn reunions. 

I sort of like what's going on at Eastwatch as well, where all these very different people who don't trust or like each other are forced to band together for the common good. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[glowbug]

I was the one who referred to a post I made about Queen Victoria in the season six episode thread. I wasn't the one who originally brought up Queen Victoria in that thread. Another poster had brought up her situation as an example of how Dany had a superior claim to the throne (based on English laws) and I was refuting that—in fact, it shows the exact opposite. Westeros is even more misogynistic than historical England so Queen Victoria would not have ascended to the throne based on Westerosi rules of succession since females are only allowed to rule if there are no male heirs. However, what the case of Queen Victoria does show is that children of a crown prince who never ascended to throne took precedence over the king's children in England, which is the basis for the Westerosi laws of succession. Even if Jon were a girl he would still have a better claim (assuming he's legitimate) over Dany. The original assertion in this thread was that the only reason Jon's claim was better than Dany's was because he was a man and she was a woman and I don't believe that's true. He has a stronger claim regardless of gender (again, assuming he is legitimate). In practice, the laws of succession are not strictly followed in either England or Westeros, but theoretically I believe a crown prince's sons have a stronger claim than their uncles and aunts on their father's side in Westeros (and a crown prince's daughters would have a stronger claim than their aunts too).

I also pointed out in one of the two posts I referred to that none of it really matters. I don't think Jon or Dany will ever be pitted against each other. I think it's likely one or both of them will die in the end, but even if they both live it seems likely based on spoilers that they'll marry and rule together so there will be no question of who has the better claim. Also, if Dany conquers Westeros it won't matter either since her justification for ruling would be based on conquest not birthright. 

[Eyes High]

Quote

Also we see Gilly continuing to learn how to read, she has been reading a diary or record of events by the now dead High Septon Maynard and she’s reading them to a uninterested or just busy Sam, she reads a piece that says Maynard “issued an annulment for a prince ‘ragger’ and remarried him to someone else in a secret ceremony in Dorne” (oohhhhh shiiiiittttttt) since Gilly is just now learning to read she mispronounces Rhaegar’s name which is why same doesn’t catch it 

This bit like most of Friki's information seems to be straight from Lads. According to Lads, we don't get an explanation as to how Rhaegar was able to obtain an annulment despite being legally married and having consummated the marriage. I'd be surprised if that's ever explained, frankly, since Maynard is dead.

ETA: /Dragonglassbenjen posted another snippet, Jon and Tyrion's first words to each other upon reuniting:

Quote

-The bastard of Winterfell.
-The dwarf of Casterly Rock.
-I believe we last saw each other atop the Wall.
-You were pissing off the edge, if I remember right.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Eyes High

[Moxie Cat]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

So who takes over in Dorne? Oberyn has other daughters in the show universe. Would it be them, or some other family? Sam seems poised in the show universe to wind up ruling in the Reach given the deaths of the Tyrells and of his father and brother

I'm thinking that the show is leading up to ONE kingdom after the NK is defeated. The Martells and Tyrells will be gone. Presumably the Iron Islands may still have Theon but he cannot reproduce. The Riverlands are decimated (Edmure has been forgotten apparently and has taken up residence in 1950s Boston :) The Vale has Robin. Yeah. No legit heir in the Stormlands. The way things are going, the North may be united with King's Landing, and if Tyrion is the only Lannister to make it, Casterly Rock will be too. The history of the individual kingdoms may be forever changed into one kingdom due to the decimation of so many traditional houses.

Thank God for all the dialogue and scene leaks - they are getting me through the week!

Edited July 26, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[Stephanie1216]

I was that answered the Queen Victoria thread. In America we really don't pay attention to that stuff. I've followed it kinda since I was a kid. Even my sister who's in her 50's didn't understand that PrInce Williams two kids bump Harry down the line. Even baby Charlotte the girl has the claim over uncle Harry. Doesn't matter gender just who's your Daddy.