Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

TV Line reports that according to HBO, the reason a formal S8 announcement hasn't been made is that D&D are still trying to determine how many episodes they'll need. Reading between the lines, my guess is that D&D want six and HBO is trying to wheedle a higher number out of them.

[MarySNJ]

On January 14, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Eyes High said:

Spotted in Iceland to date: Kit, Iain Glen, Joe Dempsie, and Paul Kaye.

Not spotted yet, but likely there: Rory McCann, Kristofer Hivju, and Richard Dormer.

WOTW says that the Hound and Tormund were part of the Wolf Hill Quarry filming, which is part of the same sequence, so we should also expect their actors to be in Iceland (along with Beric).

That's a total of seven characters. Someone snapped a photo of the Iceland filming that showed nine characters dressed in wildling skins. Who's left? Random redshirts? Benjen? Davos?

I think one of the spoilers mentioned that Edd was there as well. Could one be Ben Crompton? 

[Eyes High]

WOTW reports that David Bradley (Walder Frey) will be back for Season 7.

Awayforthelads claimed that in 7x01, Arya (using Walder Frey's face) holds a banquet with all the Frey heirs. She sends the women out of the room and has the Frey sons (and grandsons?) drink a poisoned toast. 

[SeanC]

Unless we're getting Walder Frey's funeral for some reason, this seems like another check mark in Lads' corner.

[Edith]

33 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Unless we're getting Walder Frey's funeral for some reason, this seems like another check mark in Lads' corner.

Not only another check mark but also another confirmation that he/she knew indoor scenes too!

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Awayforthelads claimed that in 7x01, Arya (using Walder Frey's face) holds a banquet with all the Frey heirs. She sends the women out of the room and has the Frey sons (and grandsons?) drink a poisoned toast. 

I'm not sure about the Winterfell storyline for Arya (part of me fears she might be dumbed down because reasons) or how much she's on this season, but I'm certainly looking forward to this plot. I wonder if she'll go as far as restoring the Tullys or if she'll be the Ghost of Riverrun.

[Edith]

Someone who claims to be Awayforthelads is posting pages from the scrip in the reddit free folk 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Edith

[Eyes High]

16 minutes ago, Edith said:

Someone who claims to be Awayforthelads is posting pages from the scrip in the reddit free folk 

Oh shit!

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Unless we're getting Walder Frey's funeral for some reason, this seems like another check mark in Lads' corner.

Seems like it.

It seems as if with every subsequent season, we get more and more information prior to airing. I fully expect at this rate that Season 8 will be spoiled in its entirety, no matter what security protocols D&D have implemented or will implement in light of the leaks.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Eyes High

[bunnyblue]

15 minutes ago, Edith said:

Someone who claims to be Awayforthelads is posting pages from the scrip in the reddit free folk 

Dammit, they're gone now. But someone managed to capture the "Jon offering to kneel to Dany" scene and while I'm annoyed it seems he still offers to kneel even after she pledges to help fight the Night King, I'm also intrigued that at the bottom of the page is says "...presumably naked". WHAT?? lol. On the top of the page is shows the script is for episode 6, so why is someone in that scene naked? I thought the boat sex was in 7x07 but this reads like the sex and kneeling are taking place in the same episode, if not the same scene. WTF is going on?

[Eyes High]

40 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

Dammit, they're gone now. But someone managed to capture the "Jon offering to kneel to Dany" scene and while I'm annoyed it seems he still offers to kneel even after she pledges to help fight the Night King, I'm also intrigued that at the bottom of the page is says "...presumably naked". WHAT?? lol. On the top of the page is shows the script is for episode 6, so why is someone in that scene naked? I thought the boat sex was in 7x07 but this reads like the sex and kneeling are taking place in the same episode, if not the same scene. WTF is going on?

I think Jon is saying that he would kneel, but he's in bed (and "presumably naked"). That's just a guess, though.

Skeptical about doing this, since I've posted information from /Freefolk that was debunked later on, but here goes nothing.

Quick summary, by individual page, in order (bear in mind that these are supposed snippets, not whole scenes):

1. 7x01: Arya-as-Walder gives a pithy little speech as the Frey men keel over dead. She strips off her Walder face and tells Walder's wife to spread the word about what happened.

2. 7x06: Dany informs Jon that she sees the dragons as her children--pretty much tells him she's barren in the process--and she'll help him bring down the NK. He offers to kneel, but she's skeptical, given all the men who swore allegiance to him.

3. 7x07: Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, Davos and Missandei talk about the Dragonpit while they're on the way to the parley. They see a bunch of Lannister guards along with Pod and Brienne.

4. 7x07: Cersei needles Tyrion about Dany (comparing her to Shae), then mentioning that Jon has knelt to Dany. Cersei accuses Tyrion of plotting the destruction of the Lannister family, and Tyrion vehemently denies this.

5. 7x07: In the Winterfell great hall, Sansa informs Littlefinger she will forget his lessons and nods at Arya. Arya slashes his throat. Littlefinger dies. Meanwhile, Jaime, dressed like a sellsword, rides north on the kingsroad; he notices that it has started to snow.

6. 7x07: Sansa and Arya say nice things to each other. Arya acknowledges Sansa as the Lady of Winterfell and says that she couldn't have survived what Sansa went through (Sansa disagrees), and Sansa calls Arya the strongest person she knows. Feud over, I guess.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Eyes High

[YaddaYadda]

49 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

2. 7x06: Dany informs Jon that she sees the dragons as her children--pretty much tells him she's barren in the process

If this is true, it doesn't sound like a plot point at all.

[Edith]

57 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I think Jon is saying that he would kneel, but he's in bed (and "presumably naked"). That's just a guess, though.

Skeptical about doing this, since I've posted information from /Freefolk that was debunked later on, but here goes nothing.

Quick summary, by individual page, in order (bear in mind that these are supposed snippets, not whole scenes):

1. 7x01: Arya-as-Walder gives a pithy little speech as the Frey men keel over dead. She strips off her Walder face and tells Walder's wife to spread the word about what happened.

2. 7x06: Dany informs Jon that she sees the dragons as her children--pretty much tells him she's barren in the process--and she'll help him bring down the NK. He offers to kneel, but she's skeptical, given all the men who swore allegiance to him.

3. 7x07: Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, Davos and Missandei talk about the Dragonpit while they're on the way to the parley. They see a bunch of Lannister guards along with Pod and Brienne.

4. 7x07: Cersei needles Tyrion about Dany (comparing her to Shae), then mentioning that Jon has knelt to Dany. Cersei accuses Tyrion of plotting the destruction of the Lannister family, and Tyrion vehemently denies this.

5. 7x07: In the Winterfell great hall, Sansa informs Littlefinger she will forget his lessons and nods at Arya. Arya slashes his throat. Littlefinger dies. Meanwhile, Jaime, dressed like a sellsword, rides north on the kingsroad; he notices that it has started to snow.

6. 7x07: Sansa and Arya say nice things to each other. Arya acknowledges Sansa as the Lady of Winterfell and says that she couldn't have survived what Sansa went through (Sansa disagrees), and Sansa calls Arya the strongest person she knows. Feud over, I guess.

I would think that this are fake, the dialogue in some of them are cringeworthy but this are the same writers of Dorne and all of Tyrion jokes on season 6.

Also I remember dismissing Lads leaks the first time I read them (because of how bad they were) and we now know that he/she was right..

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Skeptical about doing this, since I've posted information from /Freefolk that was debunked later on, but here goes nothing.

It doesn't matter if it's debunked, it makes something new to talk about. I think we're all aware that leaks aren't necessarily gospel :)

28 minutes ago, Edith said:

I would think that this are fake, the dialogue in some of them are cringeworthy but this are the same writers of Dorne and all of Tyrion jokes on season 6.

Little details don't add up for me either. (I didn't see the pages, just the summary above).

It doesn't make sense to me that Tyrion would vehemently deny he wants to destroy the Lannisters. Didn't he pretty much spit so at the end of his trial? It seemed  to be one of the perks of his alliance with Dany, at least he never seemed to worry that breaking the wheel might go with breaking the Houses, including his; and anyway the Lannisters he loved are dead, bar Jaime. Moreover Cersei didn't care about the "Lannister family" when she had Lancel and Kevan go kaboom. Of course, until Tommen's death, her conception of "the Lannisters" seemed to be "you and I and our children against the world" with Jaime...but from what we got so far, the Lannisters are pretty much "me, me, me" for S7 Cersei. I also don't see where the Shae/Dany comparison comes from, or why Tyrion would accept that Cersei of all people mention Shae considering her role in the latter's demise; but maybe it's simply for lack of information and context.

Also, "Arya wouldn't have survived what Sansa went through" is verbatim the main pro-Sansa argument in every Stark sisters comparison online; discussion that I have no desire to reopen, less here. I mention it because the leaks are a little too verbatim then, if you see what I mean. It sounds very out of character for Arya imo, if only because for all of the qualities I see in her, humility isn't my girl's forte. I could see her express her regret of not being able to avenge what was done to Sansa, mayyybe regret that she wasn't there to help her, or even admit that she wouldn't have been able to help her anyway. I could absolutely see that Arya recognizes that Sansa is a survivor as much herself is. But the comparison spelled out as it is rings untrue to me.

Of course, it could be a mix or truths or fabrications. It could be true, it's too fragmental to judge. But I'm taking those with a big grain of salt for now.

[bunnyblue]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

2. 7x06: Dany informs Jon that she sees the dragons as her children--pretty much tells him she's barren in the process--and she'll help him bring down the NK. He offers to kneel, but she's skeptical, given all the men who swore allegiance to him.

*ducks falling Jonerys-baby anvils*  So Dany tells Jon she can not get pregnant (who the hell shares that with someone they've known a short while?), so when they bang like rabbits they can do it without the fear of producing a bastard (the reason Jon wouldn't sleep with Ros). Of course, this is all to set up the moment in S8 when they learn Dany has their miracle bun in the oven- after Bran drops the Targaryen truth bomb.

Supposed-Lads says that the above scene happens while Jon is convalescing from his fight with the wights and a dunk into the icy lake, and that's why he's naked (why?) and in bed. So, it's not post-sex like I thought. And since he's in bed injured/recovering, he literally can not kneel before Dany. I'm still seriously annoyed, though, that he offers to give up his title even after Dany has pledged her support. But unlike the overreactors on Reddit, I do not believe for one minute that he's promising to kneel just so he can get into Dany's pants.

1 hour ago, Edith said:

3. 7x07: Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, Davos and Missandei talk about the Dragonpit while they're on the way to the parley. They see a bunch of Lannister guards along with Pod and Brienne.

Interesting that the script says that Brienne and Pod are being led to the parlay under guard of Lannister soldiers. I get the impression that they've been captured by Cersei and are trotted out before team Jonerys at the dragonpit. I'm curious, then, as to how they end up in King's Landing as "guests of the nation"?

As for the other scenes, the Tyrion/Cersei one sounds pretty damn good but the Arya/Sansa post-LF execution sounds cringeworthy with awful dialogue. 

[nikma]

So D&D wrote a few not that great scenes in this show, so we should then forget everything great that they've done, and believe in this fan fic script? 

That means that GRRM can't do anything good now because he wrote:  "her cunt became the world"? I mean, please. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by nikma

[SeanC]

I'm agnostic on whether these supposed script pages are real, but on these specific points:

2 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Little details don't add up for me either. (I didn't see the pages, just the summary above).It doesn't make sense to me that Tyrion would vehemently deny he wants to destroy the Lannisters. Didn't he pretty much spit so at the end of his trial? It seemed  to be one of the perks of his alliance with Dany, at least he never seemed to worry that breaking the wheel might go with breaking the Houses, including his; and anyway the Lannisters he loved are dead, bar Jaime. Moreover Cersei didn't care about the "Lannister family" when she had Lancel and Kevan go kaboom. Of course, until Tommen's death, her conception of "the Lannisters" seemed to be "you and I and our children against the world" with Jaime...but from what we got so far, the Lannisters are pretty much "me, me, me" for S7 Cersei. I also don't see where the Shae/Dany comparison comes from, or why Tyrion would accept that Cersei of all people mention Shae considering her role in the latter's demise; but maybe it's simply for lack of information and context.

Book!Tyrion wants to burn everything to the ground, but Show!Tyrion, other than getting angry at his trial, really hasn't demonstrated any desire to do that.  He's backing Dany because she's The Right Queen For Westeros, as Varys talked about.

I don't think there's anything unusual about Cersei using "the Lannister family" to refer to herself, basically, and Jaime would be enough reason for Tyrion to deny that he wants to destroy it.

Quote

Also, "Arya wouldn't have survived what Sansa went through" is verbatim the main pro-Sansa argument in every Stark sisters comparison online; discussion that I have no desire to reopen, less here. I mention it because the leaks are a little too verbatim then, if you see what I mean. It sounds very out of character for Arya imo, if only because for all of the qualities I see in her, humility isn't my girl's forte. I could see her express her regret of not being able to avenge what was done to Sansa, mayyybe regret that she wasn't there to help her, or even admit that she wouldn't have been able to help her anyway. I could absolutely see that Arya recognizes that Sansa is a survivor as much herself is. But the comparison spelled out as it is rings untrue to me.

On the Blu-ray commentary track for episode 506, Bryan Cogman brings up that Maisie Williams had repeated the "Sansa/Arya would never have survived in each other's shoes" argument either BTS or in some interview, and Cogman says he agrees and considers it a very profound insight.  Considering that, I can absolutely see that line being in the show, given that at least one of the writers and the actress playing Arya have endorsed it.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense as to Book!Arya.  Show!Arya, who mouths off all the time, maybe (though Show!Sansa, in Season 5, started acting like that too, since she was supposed to be kewl now).

Edited January 18, 2017 by SeanC

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

If this is true, it doesn't sound like a plot point at all.

Dany says that the dragons are "the only children [she'll] ever have" (I think a phrase that she's used before on the show). If that's not setting up a Jon/Dany miracle baby, I don't know what is.

2 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

It doesn't make sense to me that Tyrion would vehemently deny he wants to destroy the Lannisters. Didn't he pretty much spit so at the end of his trial? (...)

I also don't see where the Shae/Dany comparison comes from, or why Tyrion would accept that Cersei of all people mention Shae (...)

On the first point: SeanC is right that the desire to tear House Lannister to the ground is a Book Tyrion thing. Even at his lowest in Season 5, TV Tyrion never wanted to destroy his family. In context, it seems as if he's vehemently denying it because he's heard that accusation from Cersei before, and he's sick of it, particularly since in his mind if it weren't for his insistence on negotiation, Dany would have killed all the Lannisters already. He's probably keen on sparing only Jaime's life, though, not so much Cersei's.

As for the Shae/Dany thing, she could be referring to Tyrion's decision to throw his lot in with Team Dany, but it could be Cersei insinuating that Tyrion is in love with Dany ("I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. She's very much your sort of woman," etc. etc.). 

2 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

*ducks falling Jonerys-baby anvils*  So Dany tells Jon she can not get pregnant (who the hell shares that with someone they've known a short while?), so when they bang like rabbits they can do it without the fear of producing a bastard (the reason Jon wouldn't sleep with Ros). Of course, this is all to set up the moment in S8 when they learn Dany has their miracle bun in the oven- after Bran drops the Targaryen truth bomb.

That's my take.

As for why she would tell Jon she's barren, she's explaining why the dragons are so important to her and why, therefore, the loss of a dragon is enough for her to agree to help Jon defeat the NK.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Eyes High

[YaddaYadda]

17 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Dany says that the dragons are "the only children [she'll] ever have" (I think a phrase that she's used before on the show). If that's not setting up a Jon/Dany miracle baby, I don't know what is.

Neither one of them is the PtwP. I don't even consider it to be a twist because I've been half expecting it. 

There are also some really lame jokes I can make about lightbringer, but I'll spare everyone.

Edited January 18, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[nikma]

Oh, God. This off-season will become even more horrible with so many trolls and fake leaks. And we still have 5 months until the seasons starts. And can you imagine how many fake leaks will be about S8? It is the ending after all.

I don't know why this bothers me so much. LOL

We already know everything important about S7, so there is no "tension" there. I just care about the details now. 

I think that maybe we learned "too soon" everything about S7, so now there is time and space for trolls and other fakers. 

[Eyes High]

This guy (Awayfortheladspart2) also posted a few other mini-spoilers, essentially just supplementing Awayforthelads' leaks:

1. Sansa: After Arya kills Littlefinger, Sansa and Arya reminisce about missing Ned and Catelyn.

2. Greyjoys: Yara doesn't die, although some bad stuff happens to her after she's captured (not specified what). Theon's fight on the beach in 7x07 is Theon trying to persuade the other Ironborn to help him rescue Yara.

3. Hot Pie: Arya meets Hot Pie again in 7x02. He tells her that he heard that Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor.

4. Melisandre: Melisandre tells Varys she intends to leave Westeros for a while. Varys tells her that she might not be safe if she ever returns.

5. Davos: Davos and Jon have a conversation with Missandei during Dany and Tyrion's absence from Dragonstone. Davos gets Gendry to accompany him and Tyrion to Dragonstone because he wants to give Gendry a purpose. 

6. Wight hunt: The wight hunt is practically the entirety of 7x06. One of the wight hunt members is a wildling tracker redshirt who gets killed by the polar bear. The polar bear attack precedes the wight army attack; Thoros is wounded and dies overnight. After the bear attack, Jon sends Gendry back to Eastwatch to send a raven to Dany to inform her as to what's happened. When Dany gets the raven, she decides to go North out of concern for Jon (and Jorah). Tyrion thinks this is a bad idea, but she doesn't listen.

7. Brienne: Jaime and Brienne have a scene where she attempts to persuade him to bring his army north to help fight the WWs (apparently persuaded by the wight demo and really worried). Sandor and Brienne have a brief exchange at the Dragonpit about Arya: Sandor says something about why isn't Brienne protecting Arya, and Brienne says something to the effect that the only person who needs to be protected is anyone who tries to get in Arya's way, which gets a smile from Sandor.

8. Casterly Rock: Tyrion plans an attack on Casterly Rock and Grey Worm carries it out. Casterly Rock is taken quite easily because the Lannisters have already abandoned it. Jaime and Cersei plan to cut the occupied Casterly Rock off at the sea (with Euron's fleet) and by land (with Lannister forces), concentrate on the sack of Highgarden, and then retake Casterly Rock later. This plan must work, because the Unsullied eventually abandon Casterly Rock.

9. Iron Bank: Cersei successfully pays off the Iron Bank and gets them to agree to extend her credit. She uses the new funds to purchase mercenaries, and Euron at the end of Season 7 is heading off to use the Iron Fleet to transport the Gold Company to Westeros.

10. Jaime: Jaime walks out on Cersei in 7x07. Cersei threatens to have the Mountain kill him, but Jaime calls her bluff, and the Mountain stands aside and lets him leave.

11. Jon and Sansa: Jon and Sansa will have a few scenes together discussing how the North should be ruled at the start of the season. Sansa's more of a hardliner than Jon: Jon refuses to punish the Karstark and Umber heirs, while Sansa wants harsh treatment. Jon is told that his stance re: the heirs is not the Northern way, and he says he doesn't care, it's his way.

12. Bran and Rhaegar: Bran has a series of visions towards the end of 7x07, while Sam is in the room with him at Winterfell. These include a flashback to the same TOJ scene (except with Lyanna's words clearly enunciated this time), as well as a sequence showing Rhaegar and Lyanna reciting their wedding vows before a septon (think Robb and Talisa's wedding with a bit of dialogue thrown in). Rhaegar and Lyanna are clearly very much in love. No explanation is given in Season 7 as to how Rhaegar was able to obtain an annulment.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Eyes High

[Edith]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

This guy (Awayfortheladspart2) also posted a few other mini-spoilers, essentially just supplementing Awayforthelads' leaks:

1. Sansa: After Arya kills Littlefinger, Sansa and Arya reminisce about missing Ned and Catelyn.

2. Greyjoys: Yara doesn't die, although some bad stuff happens to her after she's captured (not specified what). Theon's fight on the beach in 7x07 is Theon trying to persuade the other Ironborn to help him rescue Yara.

3. Hot Pie: Arya meets Hot Pie again in 7x02. He tells her that he heard that Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor.

4. Melisandre: Melisandre tells Varys she intends to leave Westeros for a while. Varys tells her that she might not be safe if she ever returns.

5. Davos: Davos and Jon have a conversation with Missandei during Dany and Tyrion's absence from Dragonstone. Davos gets Gendry to accompany him and Tyrion to Dragonstone because he wants to give Gendry a purpose. 

6. Wight hunt: The wight hunt is practically the entirety of 7x06. One of the wight hunt members is a wildling tracker redshirt who gets killed by the polar bear. The polar bear attack precedes the wight army attack; Thoros is wounded and dies overnight. After the bear attack, Jon sends Gendry back to Eastwatch to send a raven to Dany to inform her as to what's happened. When Dany gets the raven, she decides to go North out of concern for Jon (and Jorah). Tyrion thinks this is a bad idea, but she doesn't listen.

7. Brienne: Jaime and Brienne have a scene where she attempts to persuade him to bring his army north to help fight the WWs (apparently persuaded by the wight demo and really worried). Sandor and Brienne have a brief exchange at the Dragonpit about Arya: Sandor says something about why isn't Brienne protecting Arya, and Brienne says something to the effect that the only person who needs to be protected is anyone who tries to get in Arya's way, which gets a smile from Sandor.

8. Casterly Rock: Tyrion plans an attack on Casterly Rock and Grey Worm carries it out. Casterly Rock is taken quite easily because the Lannisters have already abandoned it. Jaime and Cersei plan to cut the occupied Casterly Rock off at the sea (with Euron's fleet) and by land (with Lannister forces), concentrate on the sack of Highgarden, and then retake Casterly Rock later. This plan must work, because the Unsullied eventually abandon Casterly Rock.

9. Iron Bank: Cersei successfully pays off the Iron Bank and gets them to agree to extend her credit. She uses the new funds to purchase mercenaries, and Euron at the end of Season 7 is heading off to use the Iron Fleet to transport the Gold Company to Westeros.

10. Jaime: Jaime walks out on Cersei in 7x07. Cersei threatens to have the Mountain kill him, but Jaime calls her bluff, and the Mountain stands aside and lets him leave.

11. Jon and Sansa: Jon and Sansa will have a few scenes together discussing how the North should be ruled at the start of the season. Sansa's more of a hardliner than Jon: Jon refuses to punish the Karstark and Umber heirs, while Sansa wants harsh treatment. Jon is told that his stance re: the heirs is not the Northern way, and he says he doesn't care, it's his way.

12. Bran and Rhaegar: Bran has a series of visions towards the end of 7x07, while Sam is in the room with him at Winterfell. These include a flashback to the same TOJ scene (except with Lyanna's words clearly enunciated this time), as well as a sequence showing Rhaegar and Lyanna reciting their wedding vows before a septon (think Robb and Talisa's wedding with a bit of dialogue thrown in). Rhaegar and Lyanna are clearly very much in love. No explanation is given in Season 7 as to how Rhaegar was able to obtain an annulment.

4. The last time we saw Hot Pie he was south from the Twins. Maybe Arya goes south first? That could explain why it takes her 4 episodes to arrive at Winterfell, while Jon goes from Winterfell in episode 2 to dragonstone in episode 3. 

9. We saw the pictures of the after ambush. Everything seems destroyed so what does Cersei use to pay her debts to the iron bank? 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Edith

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion thinks this is a bad idea, but she doesn't listen.

This seems to be Tyrion's arc for Season 7.

[Eyes High]

15 minutes ago, SeanC said:

This seems to be Tyrion's arc for Season 7.

Pretty much.

Tyrion to Dany: It's a bad idea to ambush the Lannister and Tarly forces.

Dany: Nah.

Tyrion to Dany: It's a bad idea to execute Randyll and Dickon by dragonfire.

Dany: Nah.

Tyrion to Jaime: It's a bad idea to refuse to surrender.

Jaime: Nah.

Tyrion to Dany: It's a bad idea to take the dragons north to help Jon and Jorah.

Dany: Nah.

Tyrion to Cersei: It's a bad idea to keep this war going when the WW threat needs to be dealt with.

Cersei: Kay. (But really nah.)

Really, though, Tyrion's in the wrong about most of these things, so he's not exactly covering himself in glory in Season 7, either. Dany's ambush ends in victory (a pyrrhic victory, maybe, but victory, nonetheless), and she's well within her rights to execute Randyll and Dickon when they refuse to bend the knee. Tyrion's great plan to take Casterly Rock ends in failure, since they wind up abandoning it anyway. The wight hunt team probably would have died had Dany not helped them. And Tyrion's a fool if he takes Cersei at her word on anything.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Eyes High

[Leila6]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

As for why she would tell Jon she's barren, she's explaining why the dragons are so important to her and why, therefore, the loss of a dragon is enough for her to agree to help Jon defeat the NK.

I find the dialogue here a little odd, in the sense that maybe there's something important we're missing on the prior page of the script. The supposedly leaked script page is here. If it were just a matter of her explaining the importance of her dragons to Jon, it's unnecessary for her to say, "Do you understand that?" and for the script to make the point that she raises her head to look him in the eye until he nods.

She could have just said the dragons are my children, let's go beat the Night King. Or even, the dragons are my children, the only children I'll ever have; let's go beat the Night King. Both of those sentiments would express the importance of her dragons to her. 

The fact that she basically spells out for him that she believes herself to be barren and wants him to affirm that he understands that makes me wonder if there's more going on in this conversation. Could they have been admitting their mutual romantic feelings/love for each other, either verbally or implicitly? Cuz if you're telling someone you love them (and perhaps want to marry them), it also seems pretty important to let them know you can't have kids.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Leila6

[FemmyV]

Where. The. Fuck. Did. Cersei. Get. The. Money?

[nikma]

WOTW said that that will be an important part of her plot with the Iron Bank next season. 

[scottiB]

12 hours ago, FemmyV said:

Where. The. Fuck. Did. Cersei. Get. The. Money?

Presumably from looting the estates of the all wealthy families she blew up in the sept. ;) Or looting Highgarden is probably more like it.

[scottiB]

15 hours ago, Leila6 said:

I find the dialogue here a little odd, in the sense that maybe there's something important we're missing on the prior page of the script. The supposedly leaked script page is here.

:snip:

The fact that she basically spells out for him that she believes herself to be barren and wants him to affirm that he understands that makes me wonder if there's more going on in this conversation. Could they have been admitting their mutual romantic feelings/love for each other, either verbally or implicitly? Cuz if you're telling someone you love them (and perhaps want to marry them), it also seems pretty important to let them know you can't have kids.

I think this exchange is post coitus. There's a mention of Jon being "presumably naked" when he is about to bend the knee. If so, the boat sex as the wall falls isn't the first time they've "done it". While this conversation could follow the boat sex, it seems rather pedestrian to occur in the season finale.

[Happy Harpy]

12 hours ago, FemmyV said:

Where. The. Fuck. Did. Cersei. Get. The. Money?

Yep. Is Cersei the new Parker Lewis, I mean the new Ramsay ?

17 hours ago, nikma said:

I think that maybe we learned "too soon" everything about S7, so now there is time and space for trolls and other fakers. 

'Tis the season for trolls. HBO might be the biggest one.

I don't know, I don't feel this batch of leaks; the others couldn't be inferred, I guess it's convenient these are "additional". Or maybe it's the script thing, after someone seemingly fabricated a storyboard. Is it certain it's the same guy? (Now, if for example Ben Hawkey is/was spotted filming at the same time as Maisie Williams, I'll give them more credit).

Edited January 18, 2017 by Happy Harpy

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

'Tis the season for trolls. HBO might be the biggest one.

I don't know, I don't feel this batch of leaks; the others couldn't be inferred, I guess it's convenient these are "additional". Or maybe it's the script thing, after someone seemingly fabricated a storyboard. Is it certain it's the same guy? (Now, if for example Ben Hawkey is/was spotted filming at the same time as Maisie Williams, I'll give them more credit).

Short answer: it's complicated. There's no way to reactivate dead Reddit accounts.

Long answer: in the fall a poster named /awayforthelads started posting spoilers in /gameofthrones. The /Freefolk people got wind of this and /awayforthelads posted in /Freefolk, mostly in the form of answering questions. This information, briefly summarized, included the following:

1. Jon goes to Dragonstone early in the season when he receives a raven summoning him. Jon and Sansa disagree over what's to be done with the Karstark and Umber heirs, but he favours lenient treatment and overrules her. Sansa is displeased that he's leaving to go south, but he leaves her in charge of Winterfell, so she's happy about that. Jon is received by Tyrion when he arrives at the beach (and the two of them have a few conversations about how far they've come since his last meeting). He is left at Dragonstone when Dany goes off to ambush the Lannister forces. He pets Drogon when Dany returns, which annoys Dany. He has a flirtation with Dany culminating in the two having sex in a boat on the way north. Jon also bends the knee to Dany after the wight hunt when she agrees to help him against the WW.

2. Jon, Jorah, Gendry, Tormund, Thoros, the Hound and Beric go on a wight hunt beyond the Wall to capture a live wight to prove to Cersei and everyone else that the WW threat is real. Jon, Jorah, Gendry and Davos go to Eastwatch, manned by Tormund. Tormund had thrown Beric, the Hound and Thoros in the dungeons, and they agree to help in the wight hunt. Thoros dies during the wight hunt. Dany has to bail them out with her dragons, and Viserion dies as a result. Viserion is later resurrected by the Night King, and Season 7 ends with the Night King, riding Viserion, breaking through the Wall.

3. Early in the season, Arya assumes Walder's face and poisons all the Frey sons at a banquet, after ordering the women out of the room. Bran and Arya return to Winterfell mid-season, but neither is in time to see Jon, who's already left. Meera leaves Bran at Winterfell, claiming that the real Bran died at the cave, and goes home. Bran is spaced out and distant. Arya meets Nymeria on the way back to Winterfell, but realizes that she's become too wild. Littlefinger sees Arya as a threat and tries to convince her that Sansa wants to usurp Jon, by ensuring that she sees the letter Sansa wrote to Robb when she was a hostage in Season 1. Bran helps convince Sansa that Littlefinger is a poison. Sansa sentences Littlefinger to die, and Arya executes him.

4. Dany engages in an ill-advised attack on Jaime's forces with Drogon, over Tyrion's objections. She also executes Randyll and Dickon Tarly via dragonfire when Randyll refuses her offer to bend the knee. Her impulsive behaviour worries Tyrion and Varys.

5. Tyrion plans an attack on Casterly Rock. He goes to King's Landing later in the season in a secret meeting arranged by Bronn to attempt to convince Jaime to negotiate a surrender, which doesn't go well. Davos accompanies Tyrion and they return to Dragonstone with Gendry.

6. Jorah shows up at the Citadel looking for a cure to his greyscale. Sam helps him out because he's Jeor's son and locates the cure to greyscale (I recall there being some sort of shenanigans over the cure being locked down somehow and Sam needing to wrangle access). A cured Jorah later gets back to Dragonstone and accompanies Jon on the wight hunt.

7. Euron's fleet makes short work of the Sand Snakes. He holds a knife to Yara's throat and Theon panics and jumps overboard. Euron kills Obara and Nym, capturing Ellaria and Tyene. Euron later feeds Tyene poison while Ellaria is forced to watch her daughter die, as a "gift" from Cersei (payback for Myrcella). Theon later makes it back to Dragonstone. Jon is furious with Theon but spares him a beatdown because of what he did for Sansa. Theon remains a shell for "most of the season."

8. Sam gets bored at the Citadel doing dogsbody work. While there, Gilly is reading annulment records and sees a mention of "Ragger." Sam leaves Oldtown with Gilly and little Sam and heads for Winterfell (I think because he learned Jon was there). Sam later realizes that "Ragger" is Rhaegar. When he gets to Winterfell, he and Bran piece together Jon's true parentage (and, we can assume, legitimacy). Bran has a vision of Rhaegar and Lyanna's wedding. Jon's real birth name is revealed to be "Aegon."

9. Jaime attacks Highgarden. He gives Olenna the chance to take poison rather than be taken to Cersei alive, and Olenna accepts. Before her death, she confesses her role in Joffrey's murder. Later on in the season, Bronn tricks him into attending a secret meeting with Tyrion; he refuses to surrender. However, by the end of the season, he has abandoned Cersei and is heading north alone.

10. The season culminates in a parley between Cersei and Jon and Dany's respective entourages. Jon produces the live wight as a demo. The Hound chops it up, only for the wight to reanimate. Cersei and Jaime are convinced. Jon and Dany get Cersei to agree to supply the remaining Lannister army for the fight against the WW. Tyrion also has a separate scene with Cersei. Cersei later confides to Jaime that she has no intention of honouring this agreement and plans for her enemies--the WW and Jon and Dany--to wipe each other out. Jaime can't believe this and ditches her.

11. Cersei is pregnant by Jaime and miscarries in the last episode.

12. Melisandre shows up briefly to say that ice and fire have been brought together (meaning Jon and Dany).

Major deaths: Littlefinger, Olenna, Thoros, Ellaria, Tyene, Obara, Nym

If this seems like a pretty complete sketch of Season 7, that's because it is. It was also hugely unpopular, for obvious reasons: Jon/Dany sex, Jon bending the knee, killing machine Arya, Theon reverting to his previous broken self, Yara captured, Jaime still serving Cersei for most of the season, the wight hunt, the wight demonstration, Arya/Sansa squabbling, Jon's birth name being "Aegon," Rhaegar annulling his marriage, etc.

Most of the /Freefolk posters called /awayforthelads a liar, etc. etc. A poster called /dragonmcx posted fake screenshots of a PM conversation with /awayforthelads where he "admitted" that he had made everything up. /Awayforthelads disappeared after that and deleted this account, even though /dragonmcx admitted that it was a hoax. More and more information came out of Season 7 confirming the information provided by /awayforthelads: shots of Tyrion, Davos and Gendry's actors filming together, Emilia and Kit filming together, etc. etc.

Not too long after, a poster named /Kaysen761 posted screenshots of conversations she had had with /awayforthelads providing additional alleged information. She was accused of lying and doctoring screenshots.

Months passed. More information came out confirming /awayforthelads' leaks, and no information came out disproving any of it. More and more posters at /Freefolk accepted /awayforthelads' leak as accurate, although others insisted that there was important information that was missing, or that /awayforthelads only had accurate information about exterior shoots. Many other posters came forward claiming to have leaks, most notably someone who produced fake storyboards, including one that appeared to hint at Sansa's death.

A few days ago, another poster, claiming to be /awayforthelads, appeared: /awayfortheladspart2. The new poster not only provided a bit of additional information supplementing the initial leaks but also volunteered to provide script pages on demand, and did so. The new poster was accused of being /Kaysen761 posing as the original /awayforthelads, and other posters appeared claiming to have inside information that indicated that /awayforthelads was lying. /Kaysen761 claimed that /awayfortheladspart2 was the same person as /awayforthelads, as he knew information that she'd only exchanged in PMs with /awayforthelads.

Really, though, whether or not /awayfortheladspart2 is a fake, the bottom line is that all the evidence indicates that /awayforthelads was right about everything. If that's true, that means that Season 7 has pretty much been spoiled already.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Eyes High

[Edith]

54 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Short answer: it's complicated. There's no way to reactivate dead Reddit accounts.

Long answer: in the fall a poster named /awayforthelads started posting spoilers in /gameofthrones. The /Freefolk people got wind of this and /awayforthelads posted in /Freefolk, mostly in the form of answering questions. This information, briefly summarized, included the following:

1. Jon goes to Dragonstone early in the season when he receives a raven summoning him. Jon and Sansa disagree over what's to be done with the Karstark and Umber heirs, but he favours lenient treatment and overrules her. Sansa is displeased that he's leaving to go south, but he leaves her in charge of Winterfell, so she's happy about that. Jon is received by Tyrion when he arrives at the beach (and the two of them have a few conversations about how far they've come since his last meeting). He is left at Dragonstone when Dany goes off to ambush the Lannister forces. He pets Drogon when Dany returns, which annoys Dany. He has a flirtation with Dany culminating in the two having sex in a boat on the way north. Jon also bends the knee to Dany after the wight hunt when she agrees to help him against the WW.

2. Jon, Jorah, Gendry, Tormund, Thoros, the Hound and Beric go on a wight hunt beyond the Wall to capture a live wight to prove to Cersei and everyone else that the WW threat is real. Jon, Jorah, Gendry and Davos go to Eastwatch, manned by Tormund. Tormund had thrown Beric, the Hound and Thoros in the dungeons, and they agree to help in the wight hunt. Thoros dies during the wight hunt. Dany has to bail them out with her dragons, and Viserion dies as a result. Viserion is later resurrected by the Night King, and Season 7 ends with the Night King, riding Viserion, breaking through the Wall.

3. Early in the season, Arya assumes Walder's face and poisons all the Frey sons at a banquet, after ordering the women out of the room. Bran and Arya return to Winterfell mid-season, but neither is in time to see Jon, who's already left. Meera leaves Bran at Winterfell, claiming that the real Bran died at the cave, and goes home. Bran is spaced out and distant. Arya meets Nymeria on the way back to Winterfell, but realizes that she's become too wild. Littlefinger sees Arya as a threat and tries to convince her that Sansa wants to usurp Jon, by ensuring that she sees the letter Sansa wrote to Robb when she was a hostage in Season 1. Bran helps convince Sansa that Littlefinger is a poison. Sansa sentences Littlefinger to die, and Arya executes him.

4. Dany engages in an ill-advised attack on Jaime's forces with Drogon, over Tyrion's objections. She also executes Randyll and Dickon Tarly via dragonfire when Randyll refuses her offer to bend the knee. Her impulsive behaviour worries Tyrion and Varys.

5. Tyrion plans an attack on Casterly Rock. He goes to King's Landing later in the season in a secret meeting arranged by Bronn to attempt to convince Jaime to negotiate a surrender, which doesn't go well. Davos accompanies Tyrion and they return to Dragonstone with Gendry.

6. Jorah shows up at the Citadel looking for a cure to his greyscale. Sam helps him out because he's Jeor's son and locates the cure to greyscale (I recall there being some sort of shenanigans over the cure being locked down somehow and Sam needing to wrangle access). A cured Jorah later gets back to Dragonstone and accompanies Jon on the wight hunt.

7. Euron's fleet makes short work of the Sand Snakes. He holds a knife to Yara's throat and Theon panics and jumps overboard. Euron kills Obara and Nym, capturing Ellaria and Tyene. Euron later feeds Tyene poison while Ellaria is forced to watch her daughter die, as a "gift" from Cersei (payback for Myrcella). Theon later makes it back to Dragonstone. Jon is furious with Theon but spares him a beatdown because of what he did for Sansa. Theon remains a shell for "most of the season."

8. Sam gets bored at the Citadel doing dogsbody work. While there, Gilly is reading annulment records and sees a mention of "Ragger." Sam leaves Oldtown with Gilly and little Sam and heads for Winterfell (I think because he learned Jon was there). Sam later realizes that "Ragger" is Rhaegar. When he gets to Winterfell, he and Bran piece together Jon's true parentage (and, we can assume, legitimacy). Bran has a vision of Rhaegar and Lyanna's wedding. Jon's real birth name is revealed to be "Aegon."

9. Jaime attacks Highgarden. He gives Olenna the chance to take poison rather than be taken to Cersei alive, and Olenna accepts. Before her death, she confesses her role in Joffrey's murder. Later on in the season, Bronn tricks him into attending a secret meeting with Tyrion; he refuses to surrender. However, by the end of the season, he has abandoned Cersei and is heading north alone.

10. The season culminates in a parley between Cersei and Jon and Dany's respective entourages. Jon produces the live wight as a demo. The Hound chops it up, only for the wight to reanimate. Cersei and Jaime are convinced. Jon and Dany get Cersei to agree to supply the remaining Lannister army for the fight against the WW. Tyrion also has a separate scene with Cersei. Cersei later confides to Jaime that she has no intention of honouring this agreement and plans for her enemies--the WW and Jon and Dany--to wipe each other out. Jaime can't believe this and ditches her.

11. Cersei is pregnant by Jaime and miscarries in the last episode.

12. Melisandre shows up briefly to say that ice and fire have been brought together (meaning Jon and Dany).

Major deaths: Littlefinger, Olenna, Thoros, Ellaria, Tyene, Obara, Nym

If this seems like a pretty complete sketch of Season 7, that's because it is. It was also hugely unpopular, for obvious reasons: Jon/Dany sex, Jon bending the knee, killing machine Arya, Theon reverting to his previous broken self, Yara captured, Jaime still serving Cersei for most of the season, the wight hunt, the wight demonstration, Arya/Sansa squabbling, Jon's birth name being "Aegon," Rhaegar annulling his marriage, etc.

Most of the /Freefolk posters called /awayforthelads a liar, etc. etc. A poster called /dragonmcx posted fake screenshots of a PM conversation with /awayforthelads where he "admitted" that he had made everything up. /Awayforthelads disappeared after that and deleted this account, even though /dragonmcx admitted that it was a hoax. More and more information came out of Season 7 confirming the information provided by /awayforthelads: shots of Tyrion, Davos and Gendry's actors filming together, Emilia and Kit filming together, etc. etc.

Not too long after, a poster named /Kaysen761 posted screenshots of conversations she had had with /awayforthelads providing additional alleged information. She was accused of lying and doctoring screenshots.

Months passed. More information came out confirming /awayforthelads' leaks, and no information came out disproving any of it. More and more posters at /Freefolk accepted /awayforthelads' leak as accurate, although others insisted that there was important information that was missing, or that /awayforthelads only had accurate information about exterior shoots. Many other posters came forward claiming to have leaks, most notably someone who produced fake storyboards, including one that appeared to hint at Sansa's death.

A few days ago, another poster, claiming to be /awayforthelads, appeared: /awayfortheladspart2. The new poster not only provided a bit of additional information supplementing the initial leaks but also volunteered to provide script pages on demand, and did so. The new poster was accused of being /Kaysen761 posing as the original /awayforthelads, and other posters appeared claiming to have inside information that indicated that /awayforthelads was lying. /Kaysen761 claimed that /awayfortheladspart2 was the same person as /awayforthelads, as he knew information that she'd only exchanged in PMs with /awayforthelads.

Really, though, whether or not /awayfortheladspart2 is a fake, the bottom line is that all the evidence indicates that /awayforthelads was right about everything. If that's true, that means that Season 7 has pretty much been spoiled already.

Days of our lives: reddit free folks version!! LOL

WOTW in their twitter account has said that they are not going to comment on the "scripts leaks" which I found interesting. I know Sue denies fake spoilers, leakes, when they gain to much popularity (Sansa's pregnancy, that YouTube video with the whole season, etc) and I also know she doesn't like to comment on true leaks (BOB last season, when the extra spoiled the whole sequence, or even lads leaks) so maybe not so fake?

Edited January 18, 2017 by Edith

[SeanC]

22 minutes ago, Edith said:

Days of our lives: reddit free folks version!! LOL

WOTW in their twitter account has said that they are not going to comment on the "scripts leaks" which I found interesting. I know Sue denies fake spoilers, leakes, when they gain to much popularity (Sansa's pregnancy, that YouTube video with the whole season, etc) and I also know she doesn't like to comment on true leaks (BOB last season, when the extra spoiled the whole sequence, or even lads leaks) so maybe not so fake?

Well, unless WOTW has the scripts themselves (I don't know that their inside information has ever taken that form), they may not be able to verify that (the script pages essentially just depict things that Lads already spoiled).

[Eyes High]

31 minutes ago, Edith said:

Days of our lives: reddit free folks version!! LOL

WOTW in their twitter account has said that they are not going to comment on the "scripts leaks" which I found interesting. I know Sue denies fake spoilers, leakes, when they gain to much popularity (Sansa's pregnancy, that YouTube video with the whole season, etc) and I also know she doesn't like to comment on true leaks (BOB last season, when the extra spoiled the whole sequence, or even lads leaks) so maybe not so fake?

Yes. Sue is happy to shut down obviously fake leaks--like the Sansa pregnancy rumours--with a quickness, but when the /awayforthelads leaks came out in the fall, Sue's response was more or less "Don't discuss that stuff here." 

12 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Well, unless WOTW has the scripts themselves (I don't know that their inside information has ever taken that form

No, I don't think so. My sense is that their sources feed them preapproved little tidbits to drive hype (Sansa and Arya infighting, e.g.), plus a few extra tidbits they're supposed to sit on. Sue knew about Yara being a lesbian before the trailers spoiled it, and hinted that that was tidbits she used to tell the real leaks from the fakes. No script pages. They can spoil the big shit, I think, but only if someone else has reported on it, filmed it, or taken a picture of it first (photo of alive Jon, Dragonstone filming photos, etc.).

Quote

(the script pages essentially just depict things that Lads already spoiled)

I don't get the uproar over the content of the script pages. There was virtually nothing in there that hadn't already been spoiled by /awayforthelads back in the fall, except the dragonpit exposition. 

[Edith]

42 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Yes. Sue is happy to shut down obviously fake leaks--like the Sansa pregnancy rumours--with a quickness, but when the /awayforthelads leaks came out in the fall, Sue's response was more or less "Don't discuss that stuff here." 

No, I don't think so. My sense is that their sources feed them preapproved little tidbits to drive hype (Sansa and Arya infighting, e.g.), plus a few extra tidbits they're supposed to sit on. Sue knew about Yara being a lesbian before the trailers spoiled it, and hinted that that was tidbits she used to tell the real leaks from the fakes. No script pages. They can spoil the big shit, I think, but only if someone else has reported on it, filmed it, or taken a picture of it first (photo of alive Jon, Dragonstone filming photos, etc.).

I don't get the uproar over the content of the script pages. There was virtually nothing in there that hadn't already been spoiled by /awayforthelads back in the fall, except the dragonpit exposition. 

Agree! Maybe she know little tips that would give some credibility to those scripts. Maybe the Dany thing? Or the scene between Sansa and Arya? I don't remember that one in the first leaks or the Tyrion/Jorah/Jon combo in dragonstone.

The big uproar is the whole Jon/Dany combo. The fact that Jon bends the knee after Dany commit herself to battle WW. Also the Sansa/Arya dialogue, Arya saying something about Sansa being a good leader, etc (I think). 

[YaddaYadda]

Out of curiosity, was it like this before season 6 with the leaks? 

[Eyes High]

21 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Out of curiosity, was it like this before season 6 with the leaks? 

No, nothing like this has happened before. The only thing that was spoiled in detail in advance was the BOTB. There were other tidbits floating around that turned out to be accurate (Theon and Yara winding up in a tavern in Volantis, e.g.), but nothing of this level.

Most of the big leaks happened during the season's airing. There was the Frikidoctor debacle, where a Spanish doctor spoiled episodes a few days before the episodes aired. There was the leak of 6x05 a day before it was supposed to air. Truede, someone who worked in postproduction at HBO as far as I can tell, spoiled details of Season 6, but that happened while Season 6 was airing.

It seems to ramp up every season. As I've said, I expect Season 8 to be fully spoiled long before it airs. 

34 minutes ago, Edith said:

The big uproar is the whole Jon/Dany combo. The fact that Jon bends the knee after Dany commit herself to battle WW. Also the Sansa/Arya dialogue, Arya saying something about Sansa being a good leader, etc (I think). 

Yes. In the script pages, Arya acknowledged Sansa's authority as the lady of Winterfell, Arya said that she never could have survived what Sansa survived, and Sansa denied that and praised Arya's strength. The Arya fans and Sansa haters on /Freefolk just about lost their minds. It was amazing. I can only imagine what the reaction will be in the fandom if such a scene is aired...although again, if you accept the original /awayforthelads' version of events, it stands to reason that Sansa and Arya would have a short scene patching things up after Littlefinger had stirred up conflict between them.

Jon/Dany was pretty heavily foreshadowed in 6x10, though, and hardcore book purists have been expecting something along those lines for a very long time. Disapproval I get--incest, etc. etc.--but shock?

Quote

Agree! Maybe she know little tips that would give some credibility to those scripts. Maybe the Dany thing? Or the scene between Sansa and Arya? 

/Awayforthelads said that Sansa and Arya get into it because of Littlefinger's meddling and planting ideas in Arya's head about Sansa wanting to usurp Jon. WOTW indicated that Sansa and Arya have a disagreement over politics (Sansa is more pragmatic, and Arya I assume is more principled). They're not necessarily contradictory, if you assume that Sansa and Arya already have tension that Littlefinger turns into a huge blowout with Sansa's letter to Robb, but when WOTW provided their information, a lot of deniers jumped on it as proof positive that /awayforthelads was mistaken.

With respect to Sue knowing information that would verify the script leaks, even assuming she had that information, she would withhold that information to preserve WOTW's relationship with HBO, where they get little tidbits from GOT sources in exchange for discretion.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Eyes High

[Leila6]

5 hours ago, scottiB said:

I think this exchange is post coitus. There's a mention of Jon being "presumably naked" when he is about to bend the knee. If so, the boat sex as the wall falls isn't the first time they've "done it". While this conversation could follow the boat sex, it seems rather pedestrian to occur in the season finale.

The leaker (awayfortheladspart2) clarified that this scene takes place in episode 6, when Dany goes to see Jon while he's convalescing from his injuries sustained during the wight hunt. That's why he's in bed and naked. There's nothing that independently confirms that at this point, but it seems like a perfectly plausible explanation to me.

[SimoneS]

If that script is real, then I have been right all along that the succession to the Iron Throne will depend on if Daenerys believes that she is barren or not. I have always expected that they would be allies and when the truth about Jon's identify and their familial relationship is revealed they would reach an accommodation about who sits on the Iron Throne. I cannot wait for Jon and Daenerys to hit the sheets. It will be hot as hell. 

If Cersei has money, it is contrivance to make sure that she is not immediately slaughtered as she richly deserves to be.

Edited January 19, 2017 by SimoneS

[scottiB]

3 hours ago, Leila6 said:

The leaker (awayfortheladspart2) clarified that this scene takes place in episode 6, when Dany goes to see Jon while he's convalescing from his injuries sustained during the wight hunt. That's why he's in bed and naked. There's nothing that independently confirms that at this point, but it seems like a perfectly plausible explanation to me.

It certainly is plausible and probable. I missed that clarification. 

[Minneapple]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Yes. In the script pages, Arya acknowledged Sansa's authority as the lady of Winterfell, Arya said that she never could have survived what Sansa survived, and Sansa denied that and praised Arya's strength. The Arya fans and Sansa haters on /Freefolk just about lost their minds. It was amazing. 

I'm almost sorry I missed that. I love a good fandom meltdown. Although I hate character bashing and I don't understand the need to pit the sisters against each other. I mean Sansa was put in the perfect situation for Sansa and Arya was in the perfect situation for Arya. Neither could have survived each other's situation.

Speaking of fandom meltdowns, I'll be grossed out by Jon/Dany but it will be worth it if the Internet goes nuclear over it. I just want to see Jon and Dany's reaction when they find out they're related. Dany was brought up as a Targ so she might be all "yeah, whatevs." But I don't imagine Jon having the same reaction.

I always thought that the strong hints that Dany had a miscarriage in Book 5 foreshadowed that she would carry a child to term at some point. 

[FemmyV]

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

No, nothing like this has happened before. The only thing that was spoiled in detail in advance was the BOTB. There were other tidbits floating around that turned out to be accurate (Theon and Yara winding up in a tavern in Volantis, e.g.), but nothing of this level.

Most of the big leaks happened during the season's airing. There was the Frikidoctor debacle, where a Spanish doctor spoiled episodes a few days before the episodes aired. There was the leak of 6x05 a day before it was supposed to air. Truede, someone who worked in postproduction at HBO as far as I can tell, spoiled details of Season 6, but that happened while Season 6 was airing.

It seems to ramp up every season. 

Go back and check the Season 6 Spoilers and Speculation threads; people were openly discussing stuff like Arya's scene with Walder, in 2015. I didn't look hard enough to find it, but I could swear that someone made a post with the basic plot highlights for each episode, well in advance of airing, just by piecing together all the various confirmed spoilers with casting and shooting info.

The first 4-5 seasons were totally spoiled by the books; 5-6 partially spoiled by the books. HBO, D & D, everyone knows that Game of Thrones ratings are spoiler-proof. They may even be spoiler-enhanced.

[ElizaD]

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Jon/Dany was pretty heavily foreshadowed in 6x10, though, and hardcore book purists have been expecting something along those lines for a very long time. Disapproval I get--incest, etc. etc.--but shock?

It's a "GRRM wouldn't do that!" thing (now with a bit of extra outrage over Jon kneeling), as though grit and twists mean he's completely abandoned fantasy tropes and storytelling logic. We aren't going to see Tyrion die before he meets Dany or Arya die before she returns to Westeros, and however cliche it is to have the hidden prince and beautiful heroine hook up, Jon/Dany was always a very likely ending. It would be wildly unrealistic if Westeros became a democracy, as some theories claim, and Jon/Dany has the potential to be the Henry VII/Elizabeth of York match that unites potentially conflicting claims so that the heir born of the marriage has an undisputed right to the throne. Of course Dany would consider the political advantages of Jon after learning about R+L=J and could very well fall for a brave, well-meaning leader who sees that the Others are the biggest threat to the realm; same for Jon, who'd be even more willing than Dany to recognize someone else as the supreme authority as long as the Others are defeated. I'm just hoping that Kit and Emilia have good chemistry.

The script pages are fascinating because they have the potential to be such solid spoilers: not just set reports or photos, but actual dialogue. At first it seemed most likely that the leaker was just making things up, so doubting him made sense. Then the location filming demonstrated that he must have had information about the plot that no fan could have simply guessed based on the books.  His knowledge about the location filming already gave him a lot of credibility and made it likely that his claims about indoor scenes were true too, but Walder's return is further proof that he didn't only know about the Dragonstone and King's Landing crews. I remember there was some talk about whether the casting of a new Lord Frey meant he'd been lying, but so many of his spoilers had been confirmed that I expected we'd get some kind of logical explanation for why they'd cast a new lord if Walder was indeed returning like the leaker claimed (I'd guess the lord will get a couple of lines and serve as son #1, cast as the lord rather than the heir to avoid confirming the spoiler). The script pages, though, are even more undeniable if they turn out to be true, which we'll find out in 7x01: if the Frey scene has the dialogue from this newest leak, I'll confidently expect to see every plot point onscreen that the leaker described in 2016.

[Eyes High]

6 hours ago, ElizaD said:

It's a "GRRM wouldn't do that!" thing (now with a bit of extra outrage over Jon kneeling), as though grit and twists mean he's completely abandoned fantasy tropes and storytelling logic. We aren't going to see Tyrion die before he meets Dany or Arya die before she returns to Westeros, and however cliche it is to have the hidden prince and beautiful heroine hook up, Jon/Dany was always a very likely ending.

Exactly. I don't think GRRM is as much of a trope buster as some fans seem to think. He has called Jon the "classic hero," which either bodes well or ill for Jon's chances to be the endgame king depending on how conventional you think GRRM really is.

Even if the script page where Dany mentions her infertility is fake, the placement of Jon/Dany sex at the very end of the season in the original /awayforthelads leaks suggests that it's very important from a plot perspective, on par with the NK breaking through the Wall and Bran's revelation of Jon's legitimacy (which according to /awayforthelads also happen at the very end of the season). To me, that points either to an endgame Jon/Dany relationship, or to a miracle Jon/Dany pregnancy.

Quote

His knowledge about the location filming already gave him a lot of credibility and made it likely that his claims about indoor scenes were true too, but Walder's return is further proof that he didn't only know about the Dragonstone and King's Landing crews. 

To be fair, David Bradley could just be playing a corpse, like Jack Gleeson and other actors who reappeared after their characters died. It could potentially align with /awayforthelads' info, though.

Back to Season 7 news: Kit was spotted in a pub in London. Apparently, he's finished filming in Iceland?

Edited January 19, 2017 by Eyes High

[Edith]

16 hours ago, Eyes High said:

 /Awayforthelads said that Sansa and Arya get into it because of Littlefinger's meddling and planting ideas in Arya's head about Sansa wanting to usurp Jon. WOTW indicated that Sansa and Arya have a disagreement over politics (Sansa is more pragmatic, and Arya I assume is more principled). They're not necessarily contradictory, if you assume that Sansa and Arya already have tension that Littlefinger turns into a huge blowout with Sansa's letter to Robb, but when WOTW provided their information, a lot of deniers jumped on it as proof positive that /awayforthelads was mistaken.

With respect to Sue knowing information that would verify the script leaks, even assuming she had that information, she would withhold that information to preserve WOTW's relationship with HBO, where they get little tidbits from GOT sources in exchange for discretion.

What about the Hot Pie appearance? or the Grey Worm part in Casterly Rock? or the Theon is trying to convice the Iron Born men to help him rescue Yara  at the end of the season? or the Euron and the Golden company part? 

All that was not in the first leak and if one of them is fake, then clearly the whole scripts pages are fake too. 

And Sue might not know the dialogues but that extra information should be enough for her to recognize if it's fake or true 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Edith

[Happy Harpy]

22 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Short answer: it's complicated. There's no way to reactivate dead Reddit accounts.

Thanks for the detailed answer! So, it isn't 100% certain it's the same guy.

TBH, even though I agree that HBO at least plays with spoilers-as-promo, I don't think they, or D&D, would let actual script pages be leaked and not react. They have to be extra-careful with those (I don't remember which show(s), back them, used colored script to avoid copies). And I'd bet they have at least one intern screening reddit.

My reaction to the first awayforthelads leaks was "those look so crazy, they could be true". My reaction to the last leaks is "could be, but mmh..déjà vu" But well, we'll see...gah, June is sooooo far away. Although a first trailer might bring new confirmation or infirmation.

[Aziraphale]

Awayfortheladspart2 posted some more details:

1.) Euron tells Jaime that he plans to wed his sister, then quietly asks him exactly what way she enjoys being fucked. Even asks if she likes a cheeky finger up the arse. Euron's is kind of a riot this season, and he goes out of his way to be obnoxious when he gets the chance. Jaime is obviously livid at this, but can't do anything about it at that moment.

2.) Jon gave Tormund Eastwatch and when they arrive there, he takes them to the cells - he has captured Thoros, Beric and The Hound just South of the Wall heading North and isn't sure what to do with them.

Jon offers to let them come with them after they tell him the Red God wants them to go beyond the wall. Gendry isn't too keen on this though, he hasn't forgiven them for shipping him off with Melisandre.

3.) Cersei tells Jaime she somehow bought 20.000 sellswords from the Golden Company in the last episode (with WHAT money? Did she sell Gregor to science???)

4.) Tyrion and Jorah notice Jon and Dany flirting and the latter is grumpy about it

5.) Jorah and Jon will apparently bond, though and Jon will help Jorah with his daddy issues. He'll tell him he's glad that Ned didn't kill Jorah.

6.) Jon and Gendry also bond over being bastards and their fathers having been friends (Gendry doesn't mention Arya... which I find a lot weirder than Brienne not mentioning Sandor to Sansa tbh)

7.) Yara/Euron stuff: It's a Naval battle. The Iron Fleet attack Yara's fleet. It's be pretty spectacular. The Sand Snakes are on Yara's ship. Euron's ship SIlence sails alongside and his tongueless sailors board, as does he. Nymeria and Obara attack him and he personally kills them both using their own weapons - impales one and strangled the other with her whip. Ellaria and Tyene are taken back to Kings Landing as gifts for Cersei, along with Yara. (Episode 2 at the end)

8.) Sand Snakes are all dead and it's implied Ellaria is left in the dungeons to starve

9.) Jon pledges to Dany in the dragonpit scene (everyone is surprised - even Dany who didn't actually expect it), making Cersei angry. The remaining two dragons are there. Cersei is the only one who can count and is confident that the dragons must be not as invincible as they seem, cause everyone heard Dany is supposed to have three.

10.) Jon starts the boat sex (bless him). He goes to her cabin. No dialogue in the scene. Meanwhile Bran and Sam discuss the whole Jon-is-a-Targaryen thing and I assume we'll find out his true name as Jon/Dany climax, because they say the moment when Bran says his name is going to be 'weird' lmao (Okay, I want everything about this to be true so bad. I will be so entertained!)

Also very important: Greyworm survives the season. Horray!

Jaqen, Daario and Sweet Robin don't appear at all.

Jaime + Highgarden + Olenna happens at the end of episode 3. Dany attacking Jaime's forces happens at the end of episode 4. Jon petting the dragon happens in the middle fo epsiode 5.

They also say that the script pages don't have the episode names on them which is a bummer, cause that would have been a quick way to prove if they're fake or not (but then, episode names also change a lot sometimes).

And a note in the end:
 

Quote

 

Honestly I'm struggling to think of anything particularly juicy to share that I didn't share last time, because I pretty much let loose with everything I had then (if not necessarily in detail and with errors).

The things people are bugging me for (detailed descriptions of boat sex) aren't things I can supply beyond 2 or 3 script descriptions, because they don't tend to describe every single shot in detail in scripts - that's all decided in the storyboarding stage, and I've never seen those (despite some bizarre narrative that that's where apparently I got all my information last time. I repeat, I've never seen storyboards - I don't work on the show!).

But if I knew there was something in particular or some character people wanted to know about I could probably share that (not now, it's well past bed time).

I'm just not going to write an essay describing 2 characters interactions. That's a bunch of work just to satisfy a handful of people's obsessions.

 

Honestly, I have no idea if this is the original leaker or not, but hey... some stuff to discuss! 

[GreyBunny]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 8:20 AM, Eyes High said:

Exactly. I don't think GRRM is as much of a trope buster as some fans seem to think. He has called Jon the "classic hero," which either bodes well or ill for Jon's chances to be the endgame king depending on how conventional you think GRRM really is.

This.  GRRM injects politics and has characters suffer real-world consequences.  Some characters get a deconstruction of tropes - Quentyn's hero's journey is turned on its head, the Stark kids and the Lannisters get what they want but in the worst possible way.  But we have dragons, we have magic, someone besides Stannis and Beric is probably going to have a flaming sword, there are magical savior figures, there are magical villains, there's going to be a big battle fought on the metaphysical/force-of-nature level to save humanity.  It's a fantasy book in the end and some classic tropes will apply.  It won't be happily ever after (even Tolkien had the scouring of the shire and characters dealing emotionally with the aftermath), but it will still be a recognizable ending.

Edited January 22, 2017 by GreyBunny

[Jazzy24]

43 minutes ago, Aziraphale said:

Awayfortheladspart2 posted some more details:

1.) Euron tells Jaime that he plans to wed his sister, then quietly asks him exactly what way she enjoys being fucked. Even asks if she likes a cheeky finger up the arse. Euron's is kind of a riot this season, and he goes out of his way to be obnoxious when he gets the chance. Jaime is obviously livid at this, but can't do anything about it at that moment.

2.) Jon gave Tormund Eastwatch and when they arrive there, he takes them to the cells - he has captured Thoros, Beric and The Hound just South of the Wall heading North and isn't sure what to do with them.

Jon offers to let them come with them after they tell him the Red God wants them to go beyond the wall. Gendry isn't too keen on this though, he hasn't forgiven them for shipping him off with Melisandre.

3.) Cersei tells Jaime she somehow bought 20.000 sellswords from the Golden Company in the last episode (with WHAT money? Did she sell Gregor to science???)

4.) Tyrion and Jorah notice Jon and Dany flirting and the latter is grumpy about it

5.) Jorah and Jon will apparently bond, though and Jon will help Jorah with his daddy issues. He'll tell him he's glad that Ned didn't kill Jorah.

6.) Jon and Gendry also bond over being bastards and their fathers having been friends (Gendry doesn't mention Arya... which I find a lot weirder than Brienne not mentioning Sandor to Sansa tbh)

7.) Yara/Euron stuff: It's a Naval battle. The Iron Fleet attack Yara's fleet. It's be pretty spectacular. The Sand Snakes are on Yara's ship. Euron's ship SIlence sails alongside and his tongueless sailors board, as does he. Nymeria and Obara attack him and he personally kills them both using their own weapons - impales one and strangled the other with her whip. Ellaria and Tyene are taken back to Kings Landing as gifts for Cersei, along with Yara. (Episode 2 at the end)

8.) Sand Snakes are all dead and it's implied Ellaria is left in the dungeons to starve

9.) Jon pledges to Dany in the dragonpit scene (everyone is surprised - even Dany who didn't actually expect it), making Cersei angry. The remaining two dragons are there. Cersei is the only one who can count and is confident that the dragons must be not as invincible as they seem, cause everyone heard Dany is supposed to have three.

10.) Jon starts the boat sex (bless him). He goes to her cabin. No dialogue in the scene. Meanwhile Bran and Sam discuss the whole Jon-is-a-Targaryen thing and I assume we'll find out his true name as Jon/Dany climax, because they say the moment when Bran says his name is going to be 'weird' lmao (Okay, I want everything about this to be true so bad. I will be so entertained!)

Also very important: Greyworm survives the season. Horray!

Jaqen, Daario and Sweet Robin don't appear at all.

Jaime + Highgarden + Olenna happens at the end of episode 3. Dany attacking Jaime's forces happens at the end of episode 4. Jon petting the dragon happens in the middle fo epsiode 5.

They also say that the script pages don't have the episode names on them which is a bummer, cause that would have been a quick way to prove if they're fake or not (but then, episode names also change a lot sometimes).

And a note in the end:
 

Honestly, I have no idea if this is the original leaker or not, but hey... some stuff to discuss! 

This sounds all horrible and fanfic like. 

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, Jazzy24 said:

This sounds all horrible and fanfic like. 

So much so that it almost has to be true.

[Clawdette]

The only idea I have regarding the possibility of Jon taking a knee before Daenerys is that it may be proceeded by him giving some kind of speech that the Targaryens have the rights to the Iron Throne.  And, won't it be special when he and she find out that he has a higher claim than she. (Doesn't he?)