Relationship Thread: Dysfunction Junction

[Goldmoon]

I'm think we'll get more Bamon action once Bonnie returns (which ugh I still can't believe she's not back yet) I don't think it's going to be romantic but I really enjoyed their friendship earlier this season and I'd like to build on that.

I sure hope so.  How much you want to bet Elena gets jealous and wants Damon to reaffirm his love for her by snubbing Bon Bon?   Here's hoping these two get scenes to close the season that were as awesome as in the first few episodes.

[kmariee]

I sure hope so.  How much you want to bet Elena gets jealous and wants Damon to reaffirm his love for her by snubbing Bon Bon? Here's hoping these two get scenes to close the season that were as awesome as in the first few episodes.

 

Seeing as she's inserted herself into every Bamon related thing this season (the rescue mission, the pancakes, the bourbon last episode) there's no way she won't insert herself into their friendship and of course make it all about herself. You know what I want? I want Bonnie to call Elena out when she finds out she compelled away her memories of Damon because she was too weak too deal with the grief of losing him. Because Bonnie sacrificed her trip home for Damon so he could return to Elena and she threw it all away. I want Elena to watch both Salvatore brothers be more invested in her best friends than her because both girls have gone through hell this season but at least they didn't take the easy way out.

[Aeryn13]

I loved Ripper!Stefan as well but he wasn`t exactly relationship material. Well, he could have probably made it work with Klaus. I remember sailing on the good ship Klefan for a while there. 

 

With Delena, I don`t think they are bad for each other so much as the writing shifted away from ships within plots to ships with plot-adjacent on the side. I didn`t like Stelena as a couple because they brought out sides in each other I never cared for but overall the writing was better back then. I found Damon as the initial villain, the slow revelation of Katherine, the story about the tomb vampires and then the slow revelation of Klaus pretty tight-paced and interesting. And while Stelena was the big ship back then and had their dramatic and/or epic scenes, they never overwhelmed the plot.

 

Stelena, too, (mini)-broke up and got back together again a few times but it was so much more a backdrop to the plot-heavy episodes whereas when Delena were in full couple-dom, it was almost the point. It`s like the story flowed from where they were as a couple and it was all in your face and just too much. I think if they had done that with Stelena as well, made them the laser-focus of everything, I would have noticed even more how they brought out traits I didn`t like. And would have loathed them for it.

 

As individual characters, Ì`m not sure who Elena works with best right now. I still enjoy Damon very much with Bonnie or Stefan. Alaric and Liz are a close second. Even that brief scene with Caroline in Liz` hospital room was nice, though of course not at all romantic. Heck, he was good with Kai, too.

 

Meanwhile, Elena briefly had a chemistry-free fling with the bland Marco - does anyone even remember him? He just served as a place-holder anyway. She had a few scenes with Stefan that were okay. Especially when he absolutely had it with her advice on healthy grieving and told her about the compulsion. I can think of maybe one good scene with Caroline this Season. There could have been something with Ric in a friendship/parental way but they lost me back in episode 2 when she asked him how he dealt with vampire-dom and before he could so much as answer, she brought the conversation right back to herself. Jesus.

 

Maybe they should pair her with Ms.Cuddles. Everyone of that bear`s scenes is just a big ball of awesome. If she can`t make Elena sparkle, I don`t know who can.    

Edited February 9, 2015 by Aeryn13

[Jazzy24]

I'm just glad that Stefan doesn't seem to be in love with Elena anymore he deserves better than some chick that would bang his brother.

[PinkRibbons]

Yeah, what it keeps coming down to for me is that in general you don't go for your ex's siblings. That's just like good etiquette. Doesn't help that sirebond or no, I seem to recall Elena jumping into bed with Damon roughly five minutes after the breakup with Stefan. It's all just so tacky. If you absolutely must be with the other sibling, you should at least wait for the one you formerly dated to get past you (or like, at least six months, maybe. I realize I'm making arbitrary rules here, sorry). You owe them that much.

 

My favorite relationship on this show has always been between Stefan and Damon. It disappoints me that they have so few scenes together, especially in the past few seasons when Stefan went a little darker and Damon a little lighter. Damon can't tease his little brother so easily as he used to; when we do see them together they have some hilarious snark. I'd love to see many many more scenes with them, especially ones that highlight their similarities as siblings (even something tiny, like having a taste for peanut butter with oreos, would suffice). My umltimate wish is for some flashbacks to their human lives when they were "best friends". Show, don't tell, show!

 

Oh, and I still totally want a Stefan vs. Bonnie rivalry for Damon's big-brotherly affection.

[Goldmoon]

 

If you absolutely must be with the other sibling, you should at least wait for the one you formerly dated to get past you (or like, at least six months, maybe. I realize I'm making arbitrary rules here, sorry). You owe them that much.

I am not arguing that Elena was behaving like a tacky tack, but I have to chime in to disagree with the last sentence.  Once you break up with someone, you owe them nothing.

[Gwen-Stacys]

I am not arguing that Elena was behaving like a tacky tack, but I have to chime in to disagree with the last sentence.  Once you break up with someone, you owe them nothing.

Ehhh, if you care about them I think you kind of do (especially if you're dating family). Like, don't break up with one brother on Halloween then show up to the family Thanksgiving dinner with the other one. There are just some things you don't do. Not that the blame lies soley on Elena, Damon was apart of some major fuckery on that front as well.

[Mari]

Eh . . I think relationship norms about sleeping with your ex's brother might not apply when the ex has tried to kill you, and you're regularly having to deal with him/them both obsessing over your exact down to the moles duplicate.

Frankly, all of them are pretty terrible people and probably don't deserve to be treated as well as they often have. What varies is their entertainment value in any given episode.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Mari

[kmariee]

I am not arguing that Elena was behaving like a tacky tack, but I have to chime in to disagree with the last sentence.  Once you break up with someone, you owe them nothing.

 

I think you at least owe someone space when you break up and Elena never gave that to Stefan. Why exactly did Elena have to move into the Salvatore house right after her and Stefan broke up and she told him she has feelings for his brother. She has at least 3 other places she could have stayed (Caroline's, Bonnie's, Matt's) but no she moved into Stefan's house essentially making him move out (because honestly why would he stay there.) I just think a little discretion was necessary on her part and yeah she should have waited a little while before she jumped Damon's bones. That whole thing was so gross and I think the writers used the sirebond as a cop-out because that was just so trashy of Elena to do.

 

I loved Ripper!Stefan as well but he wasn`t exactly relationship material. Well, he could have probably made it work with Klaus. I remember sailing on the good ship Klefan for a while there. 

 

With Delena, I don`t think they are bad for each other so much as the writing shifted away from ships within plots to ships with plot-adjacent on the side. I didn`t like Stelena as a couple because they brought out sides in each other I never cared for but overall the writing was better back then. I found Damon as the initial villain, the slow revelation of Katherine, the story about the tomb vampires and then the slow revelation of Klaus pretty tight-paced and interesting. And while Stelena was the big ship back then and had their dramatic and/or epic scenes, they never overwhelmed the plot.

 

Stelena, too, (mini)-broke up and got back together again a few times but it was so much more a backdrop to the plot-heavy episodes whereas when Delena were in full couple-dom, it was almost the point. It`s like the story flowed from where they were as a couple and it was all in your face and just too much. I think if they had done that with Stelena as well, made them the laser-focus of everything, I would have noticed even more how they brought out traits I didn`t like. And would have loathed them for it.

 

I miss Klefan. Even now as I watch Klaus and Stefan attempting to have other bromances on TO and TVD there just isn't that same spark you know lol. I still think Klaus was a wee bit jealous of Rebekah and Ripper!Stefan back in the 1920s.

 

So now that Delena has moved into their "honeymoon" phase I would like the writers to treat them like they did Stelena in the earlier seasons (like you said). Their relationship needs to stop overpowering the show and they need to stop having the same conversations over and over again. Just let them be happy on the sidelines and have Elena and Damon be a part of whatever plot they're in that doesn't revolve around why their good/bad for each other. At least then I can just pleasently ignore them, I don't think I'll ever like Delena as a couple because I despise Elena and I just can't root for a couple that involves a character I don't like.

[Aeryn13]

 

I still think Klaus was a wee bit jealous of Rebekah and Ripper!Stefan back in the 1920s.

 

Which is hilarious because I always thought you could cut the sexual tension between Klaus and Rebekah with a knife. But that`s Klaus for you. He always has several people that he loves (he doesn`t treat them well but he does love them) and they are supposed to love him back - and mostly actually do - but never the tween shall meet. They can only love HIM back, not each other or other people. So, I think he would have been fine diddling both Ripper!Stefan AND Rebekah back in the 20s but was seething that they diddled each other.  

 

 

but no she moved into Stefan's house essentially making him move out (because honestly why would he stay there.

 

The place is big enough that they didn`t have to see each other really. I know from the way they shoot their scenes, the boarding house looks like a two bedroom apartment but it is actually pretty huge IMO. And had he stayed, I don`t think sexy-times would have taken place that night. It was more a matter of opportunity.

 

To be honest, I considered the way Stefan was leaving, how the scene played out at least like a dramatic flounce.The only thing missing was the hair flipping but since his hair is short, that wasn`t an option. 

[kmariee]

Which is hilarious because I always thought you could cut the sexual tension between Klaus and Rebekah with a knife. But that`s Klaus for you. He always has several people that he loves (he doesn`t treat them well but he does love them) and they are supposed to love him back - and mostly actually do - but never the tween shall meet. They can only love HIM back, not each other or other people. So, I think he would have been fine diddling both Ripper!Stefan AND Rebekah back in the 20s but was seething that they diddled each other.  

 

I have always been under the firm belief that Klaus is secretly in love with Rebekah but because he can't have her (because you know incest) he goes for women who remind him of Rebekah (i.e. Caroline and Cami.) That's a pretty accurate description of Klaus for sure. Though I'm no fan of Klaroline I do often wonder what they could have done with a Klaus/Caroline/Stefan triangle, I mean who's even the center of that triangle lol?

 

 

The place is big enough that they didn`t have to see each other really. I know from the way they shoot their scenes, the boarding house looks like a two bedroom apartment but it is actually pretty huge IMO. And had he stayed, I don`t think sexy-times would have taken place that night. It was more a matter of opportunity.

 

To be honest, I considered the way Stefan was leaving, how the scene played out at least like a dramatic flounce. The only thing missing was the hair flipping but since his hair is short, that wasn`t an option.

 

I don't know, I don't care how big that place is Elena should have stayed somewhere else, no matter what they would have run into each other eventually. Oh and yeah even I don't think Elena would bang Damon with Stefan in the house right after they broke up, I'll give her that much.

 

LOL Stefan can be a little dramatic sometimes, although I think his storm out when he had amnesia was even better. He may have actually done the flounce that time!

[Aeryn13]

 

LOL Stefan can be a little dramatic sometimes, although I think his storm out when he had amnesia was even better. He may have actually done the flounce that time!

 

I found the amnesia episode SOOOO frustrating on so many levels. For all intents and purposes Elena led him on the entire day, she flirted with him and sugar-coated their relationship to a ridiculous degree. I get not telling him has phases of murderous Ripper!dom but she basically told him he was a saint and had never done anything bad in the relationship. And after all that, when they nearly kiss, THEN she breaks the "oh, btw, I`m with Damon now" news.

 

Now granted, Stefan`s embittered reaction "I`m angry because my brother stole my girl and she let him" initially annoyed me because that is a pretty big assumption to make for someone with no memories. There are numerous scenarios a break-up and hook-up could have gone down and he immediately goes for the one that makes him look like the sole victim. However, after she blew smoke up his ass all day, what else was he supposed to think really.

 

Then Stefan nearly light-switches into Ripper!dom because for some reason the romantic entanglements that he has just learned about but has no real emotional connection to make him so angry, he gives up any pretense of being good, making it seem like murdering people is just his prefered state of being. 

 

And by acting like a twat, Elena also roped Damon into things insofar as mini-ruining the brothers relationship as well. I mean, they got along and the scene where Damon crashed the car was pretty fun. But nope, here comes hurricane!Elena and when she is done, Stefan is super-pissed at his brother as well. That was an episode I really had it with Elena. It was only trumped by "I need you to be okay, Stefan, because otherwise me and my happy summer feel inconvenienced". Now THAT I found tactless as hell.  

[Carrie Ann]

Ugh, Season 5 really was the worst. I think I'd blocked out how bad it really was, but man, it was awful. Even then I was sort of holding out hope that all the badness had a purpose--that there was some twist coming that would make it better in retrospect, but it never came.

 

I am glad that the writers have recovered somewhat this year, and that we had a few Defan moments, because the way that relationship was demolished in S4 and 5 was really the hardest to take. I got over Stelena, but I never got over the fact that they made it a priority to give Delena TWO big, long goodbye scenes in the S5 finale and not even a moment was given to Stefan and Damon. Fitting for the rest of the season though.

[Aeryn13]

 

but I never got over the fact that they made it a priority to give Delena TWO big, long goodbye scenes in the S5 finale and not even a moment was given to Stefan and Damon. Fitting for the rest of the season though.

 

I think it was extra-sweet that Damon`s return was a Defan scene. It absolutely had to be and it was a great one, I felt.

[kmariee]

I found the amnesia episode SOOOO frustrating on so many levels. For all intents and purposes Elena led him on the entire day, she flirted with him and sugar-coated their relationship to a ridiculous degree. I get not telling him has phases of murderous Ripper!dom but she basically told him he was a saint and had never done anything bad in the relationship. And after all that, when they nearly kiss, THEN she breaks the "oh, btw, I`m with Damon now" news.

 

Now granted, Stefan`s embittered reaction "I`m angry because my brother stole my girl and she let him" initially annoyed me because that is a pretty big assumption to make for someone with no memories. There are numerous scenarios a break-up and hook-up could have gone down and he immediately goes for the one that makes him look like the sole victim. However, after she blew smoke up his ass all day, what else was he supposed to think really.

 

Then Stefan nearly light-switches into Ripper!dom because for some reason the romantic entanglements that he has just learned about but has no real emotional connection to make him so angry, he gives up any pretense of being good, making it seem like murdering people is just his prefered state of being. 

 

And by acting like a twat, Elena also roped Damon into things insofar as mini-ruining the brothers relationship as well. I mean, they got along and the scene where Damon crashed the car was pretty fun. But nope, here comes hurricane!Elena and when she is done, Stefan is super-pissed at his brother as well. That was an episode I really had it with Elena. It was only trumped by "I need you to be okay, Stefan, because otherwise me and my happy summer feel inconvenienced". Now THAT I found tactless as hell.  

 

Yeah that whole thing was one big mess. Elena was truly the worse, I just feel like she couldn't handle Stefan not being in love with her so she had to sugar-coat everything so she could mold him back into her perfect little Stefan doll that she has an emotional relationship with while she has a physical one with Damon. When she said "you were never a monster" um yeah he was, a couple of times, what show have you been watching?

 

Holy Moly her speech about getting to be in love and being happy while he was drowning is by far the worst Elena moment in the history of the series (and that's saying a lot.) Who thought that was a good thing for her to say? I actually think that's the moment Stefan was like yeah I'm over this bitch. I think that was the point of the amnesia plotline for Stefan to get over Elena sooner than he probably would have otherwise, kind of like the sirebond for Elena.

[Carrie Ann]

Holy Moly her speech about getting to be in love and being happy while he was drowning is by far the worst Elena moment in the history of the series (and that's saying a lot.) Who thought that was a good thing for her to say? I actually think that's the moment Stefan was like yeah I'm over this bitch. I think that was the point of the amnesia plotline for Stefan to get over Elena sooner than he probably would have otherwise, kind of like the sirebond for Elena.

 

I could see that. That's the moment I jumped off the ship for good. She basically rolled her eyes when he said that he'd wanted it to be her or Damon who saved him. That was the end for me. Elena was truly horrible in S5. She's been marginally better in S6, but only after she lost her memories, and now I'm afraid she's slipping back into shitty mode. Throwing a party? "For" "Bonnie" "Because that's what she would want?" Give me a damn break. Bonnie would want you to stop worrying about your love life and get her the eff out of 1994. And even if Bonnie wouldn't actually think to suggest that, because she doesn't value herself enough, you as her friend should value her more. Make her a priority.

 

I really do hope there are repercussions here that last longer than an episode or two. Bonnie is never allowed to stay mad at Elena, and it sucks.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[kmariee]

I could see that. That's the moment I jumped off the ship for good. She basically rolled her eyes when he said that he'd wanted it to be her or Damon who saved him. That was the end for me. Elena was truly horrible in S5. She's been marginally better in S6, but only after she lost her memories, and now I'm afraid she's slipping back into shitty mode. Throwing a party? "For" "Bonnie" "Because that's what she would want?" Give me a damn break. Bonnie would want you to stop worrying about your love life and get her the eff out of 1994. And even if Bonnie wouldn't actually think to suggest that, because she doesn't value herself enough, you as her friend should value her more. Make her a priority.

 

I really do hope there are repercussions here that last longer than an episode or two. Bonnie is never allowed to stay mad at Elena, and it sucks.

 

I kinda gave up on SE at the S4 finale because I figured that was Elena's final choice but I still thought Stefan was the better choice, but yeah I think it was 5x07 where she made that speech I was done with SE forever. I can't even like them in earlier seasons anymore because of how thoroughly they've been destroyed.

 

She was ok right after the memory wipe but by the end of 6x08 I full-on hated her again and now I can't even be bothered with her scenes. My biggest issue with Elena's awfulness is no one ever calls her out on it, Stefan has a bit this season but that's it. Bonnie especially needs to call her out on her selfishness because that's been a long time coming. I just really hope when Bonnie returns she starts doing things for HER without worrying what her so called "friends" need.

[Aeryn13]

I found her pretty unbearable after the memory wipe. Caroline is basically losing it in that one phone call in episode 2 - she tries to be brave but you can hear her voice breaking - and Elena doesn`t even notice. She happily tells Caroline how she had a good cry over Bonnie and now the world is la-di-da again so lets go party. Then weird chemistry-free googly eyes at bland Marko. Is Elena uncapable of being single? Is she supernaturally compelled to find a boyfriend? And not to forget her sanctimonious spiel on how Stefan was grieving wrong. I was so happy when he lost it and told her the truth. Meh to all of that.

 

Of course when she got, not her memories but the truth back and somehow made Damon want to rescue Bonnie about her, it was pretty crappy too. I get that the writers were going for her developing or rediscovering feelings by seeing Damon in a positive light due to his efforts and friendship with Bonnie. But that could have been accomplished by just that, him making the effort and Elena seeing it and taking note. Her "will you help me save my friend" line was nonsensical because HE was already doing it. And the reason Elena gave, that Bonnie could give her relationship advice? Are you kidding me? It`s not enough to simply save Bonnie because she earned it a thousand times over?

 

I think that is actually a problem in how the writers approach that particular ship. Not everything that happens has to be phrased and re-phrased to be seen through the lens of Delena. And I say that as someone who even at this point occassionally enjoys their scenes. But there can be romantic scenes between them and there can be scenes that may involve both characters but are about someone or something else. Like finding Bonnie, for Damon it is about finding Bonnie. It should be for Elena as well. Same as grieving for Liz/helping Liz. It`s okay and to be expected if those scenes are about their respective feelings for Liz and not for each other.

 

And I realize that is ironic to say because th Liz story is clearly a vehicle to make another ship, Steroline, happen. But they are in the process of really building that just now so I can forgive it more easily.

[blixie]

Yet another reason I have loathed the Vampire Elena, Dalena era of this show is because of how little care has been taken with all of Elena's other relationships, and specifically Jeremy.

 

She became a vampire, he became a Hunter and they've never repaired the relationship since. If one or the other was about die they'd pop in to "fight" for the othes life and then go back to not acting like they are even related like the orphan siblings that I fell in love with in the first season.

[kmariee]

I found her pretty unbearable after the memory wipe. Caroline is basically losing it in that one phone call in episode 2 - she tries to be brave but you can hear her voice breaking - and Elena doesn`t even notice. She happily tells Caroline how she had a good cry over Bonnie and now the world is la-di-da again so lets go party. Then weird chemistry-free googly eyes at bland Marko. Is Elena uncapable of being single? Is she supernaturally compelled to find a boyfriend? And not to forget her sanctimonious spiel on how Stefan was grieving wrong. I was so happy when he lost it and told her the truth. Meh to all of that.

 

I think that is actually a problem in how the writers approach that particular ship. Not everything that happens has to be phrased and re-phrased to be seen through the lens of Delena. And I say that as someone who even at this point occassionally enjoys their scenes. But there can be romantic scenes between them and there can be scenes that may involve both characters but are about someone or something else. Like finding Bonnie, for Damon it is about finding Bonnie. It should be for Elena as well. Same as grieving for Liz/helping Liz. It`s okay and to be expected if those scenes are about their respective feelings for Liz and not for each other.

 

Well I mean not realizing that Caroline was upset on the phone and just focusing on herself is classic Elena, that's been around since S1 so I honestly couldn't even be mad at the scene because it was expected. I think that's why I warmed up to her a bit in 6x03 because she comforted Caroline after she watched Stefan walk away from her and she didn't say anything when Caroline admitted that she had feelings for him so it's like I'll take what I can get. Yeah her santimonious spiel to Stefan was ridiculous so it was great that he called her out on it, I still think it was pretty crappy that she just left him there too. Like clearly he hasn't moved on and he's not doing ok but she didn't seem to do anything about that. It was the scene you mentioned above that really ticked me off and I just can't with her anymore. My dislike of Delena stems almost soley from that now-a-days because like you said the way they write the couple together is just such a turn-off.

 

 

And I realize that is ironic to say because th Liz story is clearly a vehicle to make another ship, Steroline, happen. But they are in the process of really building that just now so I can forgive it more easily.

 

I think the Liz storyline was to rebuild the Stefan/Caroline friendship but I don't think it's been used as a vehicle to make Stefan realize he has feelings for Caroline, I think he already did in 6x08 after he told her he pushed her away the most. He's never denied having feelings for her I think it's just a combination of she's his friend and he never thought she saw him that way (I think that comes from Stefan's self-loathing) so he didn't think about her that way. I'm sure it made his feelings deeper and hers as well because of what's been going on between them but those two have been dancing around one another for a couple of seasons now their hook-up was inevitable. Of course I will always admit I am a biased shipper so I can see how it comes off that way to viewers who never saw the chemistry between them before.

 

I actually feel like there's been more romantic development for Delena than Steroline in regards to Liz's storyline. When Elena found out about Liz that's when she decided she could start dating Damon again and when Liz almost died she kissed Damon because "life's too short." I still don't get when Elena actually fell for Damon again instead of seeing him as a monster.

[bubble sparkly]

 

He's never denied having feelings for her

 

I'm pretty sure he did, in the Thanksgiving episode.  Damon and Ric told Stefan he should just date Caroline and Stefan said he didn't feel that way about her.

[Bort]

I'm pretty sure he did, in the Thanksgiving episode. Damon and Ric told Stefan he should just date Caroline and Stefan said he didn't feel that way about her.

Stefan may have denied it but I don't really count it. How many times has it happened where a sibling or friend pointed out feelings for someone, only to be met with emphatic denial. Granted, it's behavior usually exhibited by children on a playground but Damon and Stefan aren't exactly modicums of maturity.

[Kathemy]

I'm pretty sure he did, in the Thanksgiving episode.  Damon and Ric told Stefan he should just date Caroline and Stefan said he didn't feel that way about her.

I think the exact phrase was "I don't think that way about her", but *shrug*

[Aeryn13]

I think Stefan actually didn`t think that way about Caroline till a few episodes ago. She has been giving off a few signals but they all flew over his head. Their earlier scenes this Season when she put herself on the line emotionally and he reacted with an "um" were oretty uncomfortable to watch. And Caroline wasn`t wrong back then to point out that had he felt for her the way she felt for him, he `wouldn`t have reacted like that. He fell for Elena pretty much head over heels and there never would have been an "umm" back then for that reason.

 

He reacted with befuddlement about Caroline liking him and I don`t think believing himself to fnish last is a hang-up of Stefan`s. Before Caroline, we only ever heard about the doppelganger palooza and because the "it`s always gonna be Stefan" happened from pretty much both Katherine and Elena, Damon was the one who developed a "always picked last" complex. Just with the doppelgagers of course, otherwise he is pretty secure in his appeal as a really attractive person would be. Ditto for Stefan.

 

He obviously cared about the prospect of losing their friendship but I think it`s only very, very recently that almost like a door opened and Stefan saw Caroline standing there in a way he never had before, as a prospective romantic partner. Now he sees her and his feelings get more passionate. It`s not the "love/lust/attraction at first sight" thing but a very slow burn and I think it`s done believably and movingly. They have a fun dynamic and Caroline is someone Stefan can let go with in a way I don`t think he could with Elena. 

[kmariee]

I'm pretty sure he did, in the Thanksgiving episode.  Damon and Ric told Stefan he should just date Caroline and Stefan said he didn't feel that way about her.

 

It's the way he said it. He said I don't think about her that way not I don't feel that way about her, when Caroline asked him point blank about not feeling it back he was quick to deny it, I think he had a lot of conflicting feelings. It also seems like he just always thought Caroline only saw him as a friend so he had no reason to dwell on his feelings.

 

 

I think Stefan actually didn`t think that way about Caroline till a few episodes ago. She has been giving off a few signals but they all flew over his head. Their earlier scenes this Season when she put herself on the line emotionally and he reacted with an "um" were oretty uncomfortable to watch. And Caroline wasn`t wrong back then to point out that had he felt for her the way she felt for him, he `wouldn`t have reacted like that. He fell for Elena pretty much head over heels and there never would have been an "umm" back then for that reason.

 

He reacted with befuddlement about Caroline liking him and I don`t think believing himself to fnish last is a hang-up of Stefan`s. Before Caroline, we only ever heard about the doppelganger palooza and because the "it`s always gonna be Stefan" happened from pretty much both Katherine and Elena, Damon was the one who developed a "always picked last" complex. Just with the doppelgagers of course, otherwise he is pretty secure in his appeal as a really attractive person would be. Ditto for Stefan.

 

Well Stefan stalked Elena for 3 months after he saved her life to make sure she wasn't like Katherine and I think through that he fell in love with her. I don't think we ever saw Stefan fall in love with Elena because in the pilot he was already there. Besides falling for Elena has the added bonus of she's Katherine's doppelganger so he's already been in love with a woman who looked exactly like her and the doppelganger curse that draws them together. I think in the beginning of the season even though Caroline was dropping some obvious hints on Stefan because he was pushing her away so much he didn't see them. I think Stefan's issue in terms of love is him not being enough, he wasn't enough for Katherine because she was sleeping with Damon as well. He wasn't enough for Elena and that's why she fell in love with Damon. Plus Caroline always seems to have some guy interested in her around. I mean last season she had what 5 possible love interests? Even earlier this season she showed up in Savannah with Enzo and Stefan had commented on the possible chemistry between them last season.

 

He obviously cared about the prospect of losing their friendship but I think it`s only very, very recently that almost like a door opened and Stefan saw Caroline standing there in a way he never had before, as a prospective romantic partner. Now he sees her and his feelings get more passionate. It`s not the "love/lust/attraction at first sight" thing but a very slow burn and I think it`s done believably and movingly. They have a fun dynamic and Caroline is someone Stefan can let go with in a way I don`t think he could with Elena. 

 

So it seems like after what Stefan said in the last episode that when Caroline told him she hated him is when it started to sink in how much she actually meant to him. I think that explains his actions around Damon & Alaric in 6x08 as well, he thought she hated him so there's no reason for them to encourage him to date her she wouldn't want to anyway. So now I'm starting to think Stefan wasn't focusing on his feelings for Caroline as much as he was just desperate for her to not hate him anymore, and the reason she did was because he ruined their friendship. I honestly don't think there's a right or wrong answer in terms of when Stefan actually fell for Caroline sort of speak, like you said it's been such a slow burn and there's a lot of moments between 6x08 - 6x14 where you could say ok that's it! I actually really like that about it, kind of the open-ended possibilities of it all.

 

Yeah I think Stefan is a lot more free around Caroline, maybe because she's someone who's always so in control he can let himself be a little looser around her. I also feel like Stefan and Elena were both such serious characters in their relationship whereas Caroline is very funny and carefree so he in turn becomes less serious around her. I just love what they built between them but I'm terrified the writers are going to do something to ruin it.

[ByTor]

I'm think we'll get more Bamon action once Bonnie returns (which ugh I still can't believe she's not back yet) I don't think it's going to be romantic but I really enjoyed their friendship earlier this season and I'd like to build on that.

Actually the evil me hopes it's romantic. Stefan/Caroline, Damon/Bonnie...watching Elena's head explode would be more than worth it.

[DigitalCount]

Actually the evil me hopes it's romantic. Stefan/Caroline, Damon/Bonnie...watching Elena's head explode would be more than worth it.

That's the funny thing. I don't really NEED romantic Damon/Bonnie. I know the two actors enjoy working together, and I had once considered it back in S2, and if I'm not mistaken they went there in the books. Even so, I think Damon/Bonnie could work as friends only, especially given how far they've had to come...

 

...unless this, or something like it, was the outcome. Damon/Bonnie for Damon and Bonnie? Meh, take it or leave it. Damon/Bonnie for Elena realizing that she isn't the center of the universe anymore? You'll find me on tumblr making Bamon banners and writing fanfics.

[Kathemy]

Elizabeth dying was not a prop for Steroline to happen, it was an obstacle for them. 

 

How do you think this will play out now?

[Morrigan2575]

Elizabeth dying was not a prop for Steroline to happen, it was an obstacle for them. 

 

How do you think this will play out now?

I've seen that before, they killed Liz to prop Steroline and i never got that. Liz's death is a character growth for Caroline, an obstacle for Steroline and possibly related to behind the scenes stuff. Isn't the actress involved BTS on The Originals? Not to mention this is a teen drama...college is usually when the parents are killed off or leave the show/town...provides for stories, shift in tone, etc.

[Kathemy]

Yes. She directs TO.

[Carrie Ann]

She's a writer for TO; not sure she's directed.

[Kathemy]

In other news, is anyone else finding the desperate Klaroliners with their #sterocest bullshit absolutely hilarious? :)

[lion10]

In other news, is anyone else finding the desperate Klaroliners with their #sterocest bullshit absolutely hilarious? :)

Link pls?

[Kathemy]

The meme is all over tumblr. https://www.tumblr.com/search/sterocest

[lion10]

The meme is all over tumblr. https://www.tumblr.com/search/sterocest

 

I don't get the fans of Klaroline.  It's so blatantly manipulative and abusive that I can't see why anyone would root for such a relationship.  

[hcs]

 This is TVD the home of Damon the king of manipulative and abusive relationships. I mean forget about his relationship with Elana  but all his other relationships are his manipulating people to do what he wants or he will go on a killing spree or torture someone  they care about.

Edited March 13, 2015 by hcs

[truthaboutluv]

In other news, is anyone else finding the desperate Klaroliners with their #sterocest bullshit absolutely hilarious? :)

 

Wait, are they saying that Caroline and Stefan together is like incest? Uh did I miss when it was revealed that Stefan and Caroline were related?

[GraceAnne]

The meme is all over tumblr. https://www.tumblr.com/search/sterocest

 

 

In other news, is anyone else finding the desperate Klaroliners with their #sterocest bullshit absolutely hilarious? :)

Couple of things... Personally, I've always like Caroline and Klaus.

I'm a fan of the actors and the chemistry I saw between them.... However in a show about 100 year old vampires dating 18 year olds (some of which look like previous people the dated) I'm pretty sure no relationship is falling in the "healthy and mature" column so a debate about who likes what couple is subjective at best.

You're also talking about Tumblr.... I mean it should have an Enter at your own risk sign on the website. Most posters there are somewhat fanatical, although I'm happy it's available for people and it allows "hardcore fans" to express their somewhat aggressive opinions off the forums I go on.... You know, it's all good if we stay in our own lane...

[immortalfrieza]

What a mess. Caroline wasn't trying to force him into doing or becoming anything. She just wanted an answer and he couldn't give her one. Caroline is a being a "total bitch" because her humanity is off, not because Stefan didn't want to go out with her. Stefan admitting to some kind of feelings for her would have given Caroline a reason not to flip her switch, but she did it because her mom died. No one is blaming Stefan except Stefan, because he is the type of man that wracks himself with guilt even when things aren't his fault. It's the type of character that he is and it's who he's always been. Why are people blaming Caroline for something Stefan is doing to himself?

 

People are blaming Caroline because she decided to get an answer from Stefan at one of the worst possible times she could have in what was a very very compromising situation for Stefan. Even if Stefan had sorted out his feelings and was ready to talk about them, either Stefan tells her he doesn't love her which would have been disastrous, dodges the question like he did, or he says he loves Caroline, in which case Caroline is extremely likely to pass that off as just something he said to make her feel better at her mother's funeral. Regardless in that kind of situation there is no good option for Stefan and Caroline is the one that put him there instead of having the decency to wait until a least a few hours after the funeral to ask that question if not a few days, whether she was aware of it or not forcing him was exactly what she was trying to do. Stefan was quite right to tell Caroline that this was not the time to talk about this, and she should have known that anyway. Caroline was being a "total bitch" because she did this without having her humanity switch as an excuse, what she's done since doesn't help her case at all.

 

In short,  people are blaming Caroline for putting Stefan in such an easily avoidable situation that would give him reason to feel guilty in the first place.

Edited March 14, 2015 by immortalfrieza

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You're also talking about Tumblr.... I mean it should have an Enter at your own risk sign on the website. Most posters there are somewhat fanatical, although I'm happy it's available for people and it allows "hardcore fans" to express their somewhat aggressive opinions off the forums I go on.... You know, it's all good if we stay in our own lane...

Ha agreed on all counts. It's one of the few instances where the word fanatical doesn't seem strong enough to describe what is happening! But I also agree that if it gives people an outlet to share their obsessive and aggressive opinions elsewhere so that I can easily avoid it, then yay for tumblr!

 

Caroline was being a "total bitch" because she did this without having her humanity switch as an excuse, what she's done since doesn't help her case at all.

ITA and the other thing is that turning of your humanity doesn't make you turn into a dick. It just means you don't care when you ARE being a dick.

[kmariee]

ITA and the other thing is that turning of your humanity doesn't make you turn into a dick. It just means you don't care when you ARE being a dick.

 

This has always been my biggest problem with the humanity switch because the show plays if off like as soon as you flip your switch you just become a total dick. Stefan, Elena and now Caroline all have emotions with their switches off they just don't care about remorse, empathy or other's feelings but I feel like humor, anger, jealousy and rage all come out when they have their switches off.

 

Just going to jump in with my opinion on the whole Stefan/Caroline debate, while I don't think it's Stefan's fault for not telling Caroline his feelings at her Mom's funeral it wasn't what he said that upset Caroline it was his absolute fail of a poker face when she asked him what category he wanted to be put in. He didn't have to say anything she read it on his face he was planning on "pulling the rip cord" and that's what broke her heart. Stefan is the one who was initiating all the romance between them after her Mom got sick, Caroline was fine just being friends with him after 6x10 he's the one who initiated all their romantic encournters. He followed her everywhere, he kept finding ways to hold her hand and touch her, he kissed her after telling her he wasn't doing everything because her Mom asked him too. I just feel like both of them let Damon's advice get into their heads too much and it was just an awful sequence of terrible timing but not really anyone's fault.

 

Stefan blames himself because he's Stefan, but he also shouldn't have pushed her after she said if you push me I'll become your worst nightmare (unless Elena didn't tell him this, which is stupid on Elena's part since she knew Stefan was going to try and break through to Caroline.) I think Stefan knows he's not the actual reason she did this he just thinks/knows he could have stopped her (and Elena affirms that as well) if he'd just told her the truth. He definitely wasn't a "total ass" at the funeral but that has more to do with No Humanity Caroline being a dick to everyone.

[Aeryn13]

I think Caroline would not have flipped her switch had Stefan giving her the "right" answer. She would still have been devastated and in pain but it was a last lifeline she wanted to cling to. And she probably felt it wouldn`t be all pain and quiet then. Now I don`t blame her for asking in that particular moment. Yes, it was super-bad timing but she was an emotional mess and if she felt she needed to know then and there, then that is what she had to do.

 

However, that doesn`t mean I think Stefan is responsible for it. Even if he didn`t have romantic feelings for her, it wouldn`t be his fault. But it`s also realistic IMO that he would blame himself. And not just because he is Stefan but that`s probably something a lot of people would blame themselves for in such circumstances, the kind of "if only I had". It`s irrational guilt but nonetheless it feels real.

 

That said, neither Stefan nor Elena were good people to talk down Caroline once she had flipped her switch. Caroline knew that beforehand, she made that clear in her ultimatum. It`s fundamentally because they can`t relate. Oh, sure, they know about having your switch flipped and how good/free-ing that can feel but it`s not times in their lifes they can reflect on with levity or pragmatism. They are horrified by the people they are without humanity so this is all the perspective they CAN offer on the matter. And it is the one perspective Caroline specifically did/does not want.

 

And for obvious reasons she isn`t and won`t ever be close with Damon who does have another, more flexible perspective. But also because they aren`t close, he wouldn`t nag her and try to bring her back in the first place. If Enzo wasn`t in this weird sideplot nirvana, he might be a good person to talk to her right now. 

[GraceAnne]

Ha agreed on all counts. It's one of the few instances where the word fanatical doesn't seem strong enough to describe what is happening! But I also agree that if it gives people an outlet to share their obsessive and aggressive opinions elsewhere so that I can easily avoid it, then yay for tumblr!

 

Sometimes when I feel a little TOO invested in a show or storyline or a couple I take a peak in tumblr and think to myself… Nope I’m good, still sane! lol

[lion10]

Lily said something really interesting to Damon.  They were sitting down for tea and Damon made some really cutting remark and in response Lily said, "Well it's nice to see that you've grown into yourself, Damon."  So does that mean Lily along with really anyone that the two brothers meet, thinks that Stefan is the nicer brother?  It seems like a pretty interesting and insulting thing to say to your son.  Maybe both Lily and Giuseppe thought of Damon as the black sheep as the family which would take the brotherly rivalry far past that of Katherine and to when the Salvatore family was whole.

[KatWay]

How could Lily even compare them though, Stefan was a child when she died and Damon already a grown man (okay, teenager perhaps, but that's a hard sell from the flashback). I wasn't sure if she meant Damon always was a sassy kid, or that he used to be shy and now asserts himself. I think we knew that Giuseppe "preferred" Stefan who did what he was told to do and seemed to be a polite, unproblematic kid, while Damon seemed more the disobedient brother even back then. That said he killed both of them and showed zero regret over killing his more favored son either, so I'm going with he was pretty much a sociopath anyways.

[Smug47]

I kind of saw it like this: In their lives, Stefan has always been the one chosen over Damon. Their dad liked him more, Katherine liked him more, Elena and now his mother keeps asking about Stefan. Damon's the guy who gets shit done but is never the brother that everyone likes or wants the approval of. So I think Lily probably saw that snark which covered up the insecurity before she was trapped and now it's had a couple hundred years to be perfected, and she's probably not surprised by it. I wonder if she's going to try to play the brothers against each other the way that Kat did.

[Aeryn13]

I think it was just in response to Damon`s attitude. Lily tried being nice and friendly for a while but Damon made one cutting remark after the other - not that I couldn`t totally understand his point - so she finally had it and made one back. And of course she would inquire about Stefan since it would feel weird not to and unlike Damon, he wasn`t there. When Damon told her about Stefan`s shut-off humanity, she didn`t seem particularly alarmed or eager to help either. It was all about her "vampire family". I really felt bad for Damon when she said this, you could see his mind being blown but he came back with a nice Stefan zinger.

 

Then when Lily was in the present, she did try to connect with Damon again "maybe you could teach me how to use this" re: the computer and again, he was having none of it.

 

Meanwhile Elena couldn`t have been more with the "meet the in-laws" attitude. It was kind of cute actually. Where did I see this photo caption though of Elena in that scene that said "I banged 100 % of your sons". Ahahahaha. So true. That would have probably gone over well with prim and proper Lily.  .   

 

As for Elena, I think the initially mistaken baby picture was supposed to be a tiny bit of drama in terms of Stelena/Delena but seriously, come on, show. It means NOTHING if an adult can not tell which baby picture belongs to which person, their significant other, a sibling or a family friend. Nearly everyone on Earth would easily make the same "mistake".   

[Smug47]

 

Meanwhile Elena couldn`t have been more with the "meet the in-laws" attitude. It was kind of cute actually. Where did I see this photo caption though of Elena in that scene that said "I banged 100 % of your sons". Ahahahaha. So true. That would have probably gone over well with prim and proper Lily.  .   

That was Price Peterson's recap over at tv.com! I love those, they're always so excited about the show that it makes me excited too.

http://www.tv.com/shows/the-vampire-diaries/community/post/the-vampire-diaries-season-6-episode-17-bird-in-a-gilded-cage-review-142680491769/

[Aeryn13]

Ah, thanks. Should have known, I love those, too. 

[lion10]

I'm thinking Stefan is melancholic, Damon's choleric, Bonnie's melancholic, Elena's phlegmatic/sanguine, probably more sanguine before her parents' death, and Caroline as sanguine.  Elijah's melancholic/choleric, Klaus is straight up choleric, Finn is phlegmatic/choleric, and Kol's sanguine/choleric (I guess) and Rebekah's sanguine/choleric, Mikael's choleric and just generally driven by rage, and Esther's phlegmatic/choleric.  I guess the entire Mikaelson family is choleric which I guess being the most powerful beings on earth would do that to you.

 

What do you guys think?