Season 6

[junienmomo]

2 hours ago, ChlcGirl said:

I am now in the second half on 6 and can I just say how much I hate pretty much everyone on the show right now?  Lorelei acts like a child instead of a woman of 37 in almost every episode.  I'm exhausted by all her quips.  Luke vacillates between a doormat and an asshole, depending on the episode.  Rory is so special snowflakey my palm itches to slap her face.  April, shut up.  liz and TJ, kill.  Richard & Emily, shrill and judgey.  And I can not stand, honest to God HATE, Paul Anna and all of Loreleis stories about him.

Hate, hate, hate.

[Kohola3]

ChlcGirl, we feel your pain. Season 6 is truly abysmal.

[hippielamb]

Lol I love Paul Anka though he's a wee bit quirky. Honestly, he's the only character I enjoy during the Lorelai and Rory rift. 

[Kohola3]

Quote

I love Paul Anka though he's a wee bit quirky.

Such a sweet kissable face.

[ChlcGirl]

1 hour ago, hippielamb said:

Lol I love Paul Anka though he's a wee bit quirky. Honestly, he's the only character I enjoy during the Lorelai and Rory rift.

i am normally an animal lover so it is entirely possible that my Paul Anka hate is due to how EFFING STUPID Lorelei is with him.  

I just watched Vineyard Valentine with my husband. At one point, he paused the DVD, turned to me and asked if Luke was supposed to be the village idiot? that episode is so ...Gah.  I would have throttled him and thrown him in the noisy waves if I had been Lorelei.

[cuddlingcrowley]

I'm a big animal lover, especially dogs (I own seven, four of which are currently in bed with me) but I too am and have always been a mix of bored and annoyed at any scene Paul Anka is involved in.

I think peharps a different breed... I find hairy dogs are often lacking in personality and I find it hard to connect with them. Lorelai projecting the hell out of all her neurosis didn't help.

Edited November 12, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[hippielamb]

On Friday, November 11, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Kohola3 said:

Such a sweet kissable face.

I think he is all kinds of adorable but I'm a sap for pets. I love his scenes with Babette and Patty too. And Sugar Toes Rory. Love the pooch. 

On Friday, November 11, 2016 at 8:28 PM, ChlcGirl said:

i am normally an animal lover so it is entirely possible that my Paul Anka hate is due to how EFFING STUPID Lorelei is with him.  

I just watched Vineyard Valentine with my husband. At one point, he paused the DVD, turned to me and asked if Luke was supposed to be the village idiot? that episode is so ...Gah.  I would have throttled him and thrown him in the noisy waves if I had been Lorelei.

It's entirely possible that Paul Anka is a completely normal dog, and all the quirk comes from Lorelai. Since he is supposed to be a Rory surrogate, you have to wonder how much quirk young Rory had. Like, Lorelai saying that Rory wouldn't walk on grass until she was 3. How much of that is Rory, and how much comes from Lorelai?

As a Lorelai fan, that episode was the point where I had no clue why she was putting up with his behaviour. I know she was trying to be supportive but that's different from being a doormat. 

[Melancholy]

Scattered thoughts from watching S6.

1) I believe Collin and Finn DID take Emily/Richard's picture frames, per E/R's accusation in Friday Night's Allright for Fighting. That's their MO. It'd be a whole prank of "What's a picture without its frame?" Rory sounds so ridiculous instantly declaring COLIN AND FINN DID NOT TAKE YOUR PICTURE FRAMES. Does she know Colin and Finn? Does she not remember how it's a Life & Death Brigade code to take things out of rich people's houses? Just like not informing E/R that now Christopher would be paying for Yale, Rory just flat out can't admit when she's being an asshole. Having two trouble making boys move her out unsupervised and not even saying goodbye to her grandparents was an indefensible asshole move so she resorts to disingenous faux-self righteous which is one of the repulsive things she could do. 

2) In Bridesmaids Revisited, Lorelai is ridiculous to plan on Gigi playing Candyland and Battleship at the ripe old age of 3. Those type boardgames are too advanced for 3 year olds. Lorelai got all jealous in the cold-open that Lane was playing these type boardgames with 12-year old April. THAT'S where Lorelai's sudden interest in babysitting Gigi comes from, and it's reflected in the choice of activities.  

Edited November 21, 2016 by Melancholy

[TimetravellingBW]

After finally getting through the first half of Season 6 I feel the one thing the "Rory Dropping Out of Yale" storyline managed was that all of the characters acted terribly, so at least it wasn't vilifying one character for the sake of the others. 

Imo Lorelai was justified in being angry when Richard and Emily stabbed her in the back over the "get Rory back to Yale" plan. While taking Rory in was a good idea, Richard and Emily going over Lorelai's head about it was appalling. When Rory came crying to them, they should have got all four of them to sit down and hear Rory's point of view. Not go behind your daughter's back when she's willing to work with you for the first time in decades. (Especially as they'd treated Lorelai horribly throughout s5 with the Luke/Christopher plotting. In earlier seasons the show acknowledged the complexities of the Lorelai/parents relationship, but s5 made me wonder if Lorelai was right in never wanting to see them). 

Richard and Emily's motives for taking Rory in are also super questionable. Richard honestly seemed to be trying to help her: He'd always  been proud of her academic achivements and the scene where she fell apart crying in his arms was touching. It felt like he had a "my granddaughter is hurt and I want to fix it anyway I can" gut reaction and just went about it the wrong way. But with Emily the show made it all about Rory being her do-over for Lorelai and Emily being thrilled that Rory came running away from Lorelai into her arms. 

That said, Lorelai freezing Rory out for months was incredibly cruel. (Yes, I think the burden for reconnecting was on Lorelai as Rory clearly felt she had to go back to Yale in order to be accepted by her mom). If Lorelai really was an "understanding, best-friend mom" then she would have reached out to Rory once she got over the initial hurt and told her she still wanted to be in her life even if she disagreed with her decisions. Instead Lorelai shut Rory out completely for deviating from her life path. Which imo does prove that Lorelai's cool mom act was only possible because Rory was naturally an obedient, high-achieving kid who followed what Lorelai wanted. (And shows how much Rory's "life-long" dream of Ivy League/high-powered career was clearly constructed by Lorelai). If Rory had been more like Lorelai - lively, rebellious, independent - I don't think Lorelai would ever have developed her "friends first, mother/daughter second" view. (And the storyline reveals how much of Lorelai's self-worth was wrapped up in Rory's achievements and perfection - she saw Rory as a do-over for her mistakes just as much as Emily did). 

As others have said, Lorelai's reaction to Rory dropping out revealed how similar she was to Emily. But imo Lorelai actually comes out worse in the comparison. When young Lorelai made a much bigger mistake than Rory, Emily never for a second turned her back on her. (Because getting pregnant has much bigger consequences than taking a break from college).  Yes, Emily was judgmental, controlling and critical of Lorelai, but Emily's bottom line is she always wants a relationship with her daughter and will push relentlessly to get it. Meanwhile, Lorelai exiled Rory and demanded she fix her mistakes before letting her back in. 

And then of course there was Rory, who the show did condemn for wasting her life partying and playing the socialite. The problem was that when Rory returned to Yale, she and the show pinned all of the blame for her mistakes on her grandparents (and Logan) rather than making her accept responsibility for her own decisions. The scene when she leaves without telling them and Colin/Finn collect her stuff was clearly meant to be Richard and Emily getting their due, but just made Rory look spoiled and hurting the people who had looked after her for months. And her lack of ability to face them afterwards and Lorelai doing it for her, just reset the whole dynamic back to before the conflict.

Basically the whole saga could have been way better if ASP actually explored the character's deeper issues and developed the show from it. (Everyone's expectations for Rory to be perfect and a do-over for Lorelai's mistakes, Rory having a more adult relationship with her grandparents and not using Lorelai as her shield etc.) But unfortunately it was just drama for the sake of drama, and barely changed anything.

Edited November 21, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, TimetravellingBW said:

(And the storyline reveals how much of Lorelai's self-worth was wrapped up in Rory's achievements and perfection - she saw Rory as a do-over for her mistakes just as much as Emily did). 

As others have said, Lorelai's reaction to Rory dropping out revealed how similar she was to Emily. But imo Lorelai actually comes out worse in the comparison. When young Lorelai made a much bigger mistake than Rory, Emily never for a second turned her back on her. (Because getting pregnant has much bigger consequences than taking a break from college).  Yes, Emily was judgmental, controlling and critical of Lorelai, but Emily's bottom line is she always wants a relationship with her daughter and will push relentlessly to get it. Meanwhile, Lorelai exiled Rory and demanded she fix her mistakes before letting her back in. 

 

Oh, snap!

[hippielamb]

3 hours ago, TimetravellingBW said:

After finally getting through the first half of Season 6 I feel the one thing the "Rory Dropping Out of Yale" storyline managed was that all of the characters acted terribly, so at least it wasn't vilifying one character for the sake of the others. 

Imo Lorelai was justified in being angry when Richard and Emily stabbed her in the back over the "get Rory back to Yale" plan. While taking Rory in was a good idea, Richard and Emily going over Lorelai's head about it was appalling. When Rory came crying to them, they should have got all four of them to sit down and hear Rory's point of view. Not go behind your daughter's back when she's willing to work with you for the first time in decades. (Especially as they'd treated Lorelai horribly throughout s5 with the Luke/Christopher plotting. In earlier seasons the show acknowledged the complexities of the Lorelai/parents relationship, but s5 made me wonder if Lorelai was right in never wanting to see them). 

Richard and Emily's motives for taking Rory in are also super questionable. Richard honestly seemed to be trying to help her: He'd always  been proud of her academic achivements and the scene where she fell apart crying in his arms was touching. It felt like he had a "my granddaughter is hurt and I want to fix it anyway I can" gut reaction and just went about it the wrong way. But with Emily the show made it all about Rory being her do-over for Lorelai and Emily being thrilled that Rory came running away from Lorelai into her arms. 

That said, Lorelai freezing Rory out for months was incredibly cruel. (Yes, I think the burden for reconnecting was on Lorelai as Rory clearly felt she had to go back to Yale in order to be accepted by her mom). If Lorelai really was an "understanding, best-friend mom" then she would have reached out to Rory once she got over the initial hurt and told her she still wanted to be in her life even if she disagreed with her decisions. Instead Lorelai shut Rory out completely for deviating from her life path. Which imo does prove that Lorelai's cool mom act was only possible because Rory was naturally an obedient, high-achieving kid who followed what Lorelai wanted. (And shows how much Rory's "life-long" dream of Ivy League/high-powered career was clearly constructed by Lorelai). If Rory had been more like Lorelai - lively, rebellious, independent - I don't think Lorelai would ever have developed her "friends first, mother/daughter second" view. (And the storyline reveals how much of Lorelai's self-worth was wrapped up in Rory's achievements and perfection - she saw Rory as a do-over for her mistakes just as much as Emily did). 

As others have said, Lorelai's reaction to Rory dropping out revealed how similar she was to Emily. But imo Lorelai actually comes out worse in the comparison. When young Lorelai made a much bigger mistake than Rory, Emily never for a second turned her back on her. (Because getting pregnant has much bigger consequences than taking a break from college).  Yes, Emily was judgmental, controlling and critical of Lorelai, but Emily's bottom line is she always wants a relationship with her daughter and will push relentlessly to get it. Meanwhile, Lorelai exiled Rory and demanded she fix her mistakes before letting her back in. 

And then of course there was Rory, who the show did condemn for wasting her life partying and playing the socialite. The problem was that when Rory returned to Yale, she and the show pinned all of the blame for her mistakes on her grandparents (and Logan) rather than making her accept responsibility for her own decisions. The scene when she leaves without telling them and Colin/Finn collect her stuff was clearly meant to be Richard and Emily getting their due, but just made Rory look spoiled and hurting the people who had looked after her for months. And her lack of ability to face them afterwards and Lorelai doing it for her, just reset the whole dynamic back to before the conflict.

Basically the whole saga could have been way better if ASP actually explored the character's deeper issues and developed the show from it. (Everyone's expectations for Rory to be perfect and a do-over for Lorelai's mistakes, Rory having a more adult relationship with her grandparents and not using Lorelai as her shield etc.) But unfortunately it was just drama for the sake of drama, and barely changed anything.

Yes! I'm a die hard Lorelai fan but she really disappointed me (lol like she's a real person) with how she acted during the Rory rift. I never thought ever that Emily would be a more understanding parent than Lorelai but there it was. Lorelai got pregnant in high school and her parents supported her. They would have supported her through college and her career too, not told her she couldn't come home. Overbearing and critical yes, but they never pushed her away for not conforming. I kind of wish Emily or Richard would've reminded her that they never would shut their door to their daughter, and she was doing that to Rory. Of course, they had their own reasons for Rory being with them, but it seems that analogy never registered with Lorelai.

[Melancholy]

6 hours ago, TimetravellingBW said:

Imo Lorelai was justified in being angry when Richard and Emily stabbed her in the back over the "get Rory back to Yale" plan. While taking Rory in was a good idea, Richard and Emily going over Lorelai's head about it was appalling. When Rory came crying to them, they should have got all four of them to sit down and hear Rory's point of view. Not go behind your daughter's back when she's willing to work with you for the first time in decades. (Especially as they'd treated Lorelai horribly throughout s5 with the Luke/Christopher plotting. In earlier seasons the show acknowledged the complexities of the Lorelai/parents relationship, but s5 made me wonder if Lorelai was right in never wanting to see them). 

Richard and Emily's motives for taking Rory in are also super questionable. Richard honestly seemed to be trying to help her: He'd always  been proud of her academic achivements and the scene where she fell apart crying in his arms was touching. It felt like he had a "my granddaughter is hurt and I want to fix it anyway I can" gut reaction and just went about it the wrong way. But with Emily the show made it all about Rory being her do-over for Lorelai and Emily being thrilled that Rory came running away from Lorelai into her arms. 

I agree that Richard/Emily shouldn't have gone behind Lorelai's back. I agree that they all should have sit down but just with an understanding that Rory had her own POV that counts for a lot instead of a tag-team intervention to get Rory immediately back to Yale as Lorelai wanted. However, Lorelai had every right to be part of that conversation. I agree that E/R should have been extra cautious about screwing over Lorelai after the Luke/Christopher/Lorelai debacle just a few months prior. 

I give Emily more credit. I agree that Richard had the first reaction to Rory breaking down in his arms and it was "I must fix this for my precious granddaughter!" However, as I read it, Richard took the lead in making the choice to take Rory in. Emily deferred to him, as the head of their household and the one actually dealt with Rory at the pivotal moment of Rory approaching them. Usually loquacious opinionated Emily was waiting for Richard to state their position to Lorelai and field questions while she was nodding along at the end of A House is Not a Home. Then after Richard stated their position was to take Rory in, Emily threw herself into being Rory's new mommy and a big part of that Rory being a do-over. However, another part of it was as Emily said, giving Rory positive things to fill up her days. A new job, new clothes, parties, new friends. I also think that Emily didn't want a total break between Lorelai and Rory. If Emily and Richard had their pick, Lorelai would still be involved in Rory's life in S6. They asked for that multiple times, got pissed off at Lorelai insisting on a total break. I agree that Emily was strutting that Rory picked them over Lorelai and that's pretty vile. Emily was particularly wishing for a framework where Lorelai is involved in Rory's life but Emily/Richard have more power and influence over Rory and I have zero confidence that Emily wouldn't pettily rub that in Lorelai's face. And that's also vile. However, Emily REALLY didn't want Lorelai and Rory to split apart and I even think she was hurt for Rory's sake that Lorelai cut Rory off. She really preferred a close family relationship- just with her and Richard at the top. 

Quote

That said, Lorelai freezing Rory out for months was incredibly cruel. (Yes, I think the burden for reconnecting was on Lorelai as Rory clearly felt she had to go back to Yale in order to be accepted by her mom). If Lorelai really was an "understanding, best-friend mom" then she would have reached out to Rory once she got over the initial hurt and told her she still wanted to be in her life even if she disagreed with her decisions. Instead Lorelai shut Rory out completely for deviating from her life path. Which imo does prove that Lorelai's cool mom act was only possible because Rory was naturally an obedient, high-achieving kid who followed what Lorelai wanted. (And shows how much Rory's "life-long" dream of Ivy League/high-powered career was clearly constructed by Lorelai). If Rory had been more like Lorelai - lively, rebellious, independent - I don't think Lorelai would ever have developed her "friends first, mother/daughter second" view. (And the storyline reveals how much of Lorelai's self-worth was wrapped up in Rory's achievements and perfection - she saw Rory as a do-over for her mistakes just as much as Emily did). 

Lorelai hits the nuclear button to destroy the relationship when she's pushed enough with the characters most important to her in the framework in the series. Her parents, Luke, and Rory above all. None of them wanted a ruptured relationship with Lorelai and they were all hurt/shocked in their own ways when Lorelai cut them out of their lives. It just makes it all the more aggravating that I never feel Lorelai goes as nuclear against Christopher for his more frequent and odious transgressions even though he doesn't even bring equivalent positives to the table as Emily/Richard/Rory/Luke. Sure, she'll get angry and won't talk to him at the start of S3 or after Wedding Bell Blues but Christopher doesn't even have to fix things or change to be let back in. He just has to let some time go by.  

Edited November 22, 2016 by Melancholy

[readster]

Quote

Lorelai hits the nuclear button to destroy the relationship when she's pushed enough with the characters most important to her in the framework in the series. Her parents, Luke, and Rory above all. None of them wanted a ruptured relationship with Lorelai and they were all hurt/shocked in their own ways when Lorelai cut them out of their lives. It just makes it all the more aggravating that I never feel Lorelai goes as nuclear against Christopher for his more frequent and odious transgressions even though he doesn't even bring equivalent positives to the table as Emily/Richard/Rory/Luke. Sure, she'll get angry and won't talk to him at the start of S3 or after Wedding Bell Blues but Christopher doesn't even have to fix things or change to be let back in. He just has to let some time go by.  

Yes, because Christopher was AS-P "special snowflake" for the series. It was always: "Poor Christopher." or "It's not his fault, it's someone else's." He was never called on his shit the the closest was when Luke got into a fight, because really, someone needed to kick his ass or at least show him that not everyone was going to just forgive and forget. Something I always saw that is what was done to Luke. He bent over backwards for everyone, from his family to Kirk to Taylor and even Anna. What he get out of it? Destroyed diners, daughters kept in secret, hounded by law firm associates and being the butt of the town's jokes at times. Not one time did anyone go: "Let's just leave Luke alone." or "You know, let's do something for him since he does so much for us." Nope, that was Christopher, I think he could have killed someone and the police would have magically looked the other way or lost evidence like an episode of Desperate Housewives. Because it was never Christopher's fault and everyone did that.

[hippielamb]

On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 9:57 PM, Melancholy said:

Lorelai hits the nuclear button to destroy the relationship when she's pushed enough with the characters most important to her in the framework in the series. Her parents, Luke, and Rory above all. None of them wanted a ruptured relationship with Lorelai and they were all hurt/shocked in their own ways when Lorelai cut them out of their lives. It just makes it all the more aggravating that I never feel Lorelai goes as nuclear against Christopher for his more frequent and odious transgressions even though he doesn't even bring equivalent positives to the table as Emily/Richard/Rory/Luke. Sure, she'll get angry and won't talk to him at the start of S3 or after Wedding Bell Blues but Christopher doesn't even have to fix things or change to be let back in. He just has to let some time go by.  

I don't think Chris did anything that would warrant cutting him out for good. Maybe the Sherry pregnancy thing because he hurt her and Rory, but I think Lorelai realized he didn't do it intentionally. Once she got over her heartbreak, things could go back to normal. I think they have the type of friendship that can survive almost anything. 

I can understand why Lorelai cut ties with Emily and Richard. She was 17 and didn't want to feel controlled. Teenagers make ill advised decisions all the time. I don't understand her cutting out Rory. That's her kid! I do wonder how much of Lorelai's decision to go nuclear was based on her disapproval of Logan's family and their influence on Rory. Because otherwise, acting that way just because your kid takes time off from school is way too harsh. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

On November 23, 2016 at 10:30 AM, hippielamb said:

 

Teenagers make ill advised decisions all the time. I don't understand her cutting out Rory. That's her kid! I do wonder how much of Lorelai's decision to go nuclear was based on her disapproval of Logan's family and their influence on Rory. Because otherwise, acting that way just because your kid takes time off from school is way too harsh. 

I just started rewatching and so reading the board and seeing all the Rory is a special snow flake comments and I'm thinking they haven't seen S6? Lorelai was incredibley cruel to Rory for being a teenager. As have been mentioned, Lorelai committed a worse crime and wasn't thrown out like an unwanted garbage. Rory has been an afterthought to her father all her life but that fact was overshadowed by Lorelai's own superior support. Season 6 was prove that Lorelai was the bestest mother ever if Rory was towing the line. 

And I didn't mind her taking time off college. People do that all the time. Hell, they out and out drop out. All the girl wanted to do was take time off. I do mind that it was becaus of Mitch's criticism. Now I didn't get that it was a direct result. 

And no, Rory wasn't always cuddled and told how special she was. Mitch is exhibit A and Richard couldn't disagree. The time after his confrontation with Mitch, when he started to develope a different perception was interesting. 

I know S6 wasn't everyone's cup of tea but I actually enjoyed the season overall keeping in mind I was never a LL fan. The conflict between the Gilmores made them had to like but I don't have to like characters to be entertained by them.

[hippielamb]

18 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I just started rewatching and so reading the board and seeing all the Rory is a special snow flake comments and I'm thinking they haven't seen S6? Lorelai was incredibley cruel to Rory for being a teenager. As have been mentioned, Lorelai committed a worse crime and wasn't thrown out like an unwanted garbage. Rory has been an afterthought to her father all her life but that fact was overshadowed by Lorelai's own superior support. Season 6 was prove that Lorelai was the bestest mother ever if Rory was towing the line. 

And I didn't mind her taking time off college. People do that all the time. Hell, they out and out drop out. All the girl wanted to do was take time off. I do mind that it was becaus of Mitch's criticism. Now I didn't get that it was a direct result. 

 

I think Lorelai blowing up like that comes from her fear that Rory is walking away from everything they had worked towards. I wish she had been more understanding, and maybe she would have if both girls gave each other time to cool down. She had all summer to get through to Rory. 

[Lady Calypso]

On 11/29/2016 at 7:23 AM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

And I didn't mind her taking time off college. People do that all the time. Hell, they out and out drop out. All the girl wanted to do was take time off. I do mind that it was becaus of Mitch's criticism. Now I didn't get that it was a direct result. 

I recently rewatched 6x05, the episode where Rory throws that fundraiser and Richard finds out about Mitchum. Now, Rory doesn't actually finish her sentence, but she almost officially confirms that indeed, she did drop out because of Mitchum's criticism:

Quote

RORY: Shira's one thing. I can deal with her. But Mitchum? I can't see him. I can't face him. It's too much. After what he did, what he said to me. (voice breaks)
PARIS: What did he say to you?
RORY: If it weren't for him, I wouldn't have....
PARIS: you wouldn't have what? Rory?
RORY: Nothing, nothing. He's just...They're just not the nicest people.

Now, it's left open mostly to interpretation. But she does heavily imply that she did drop out of Yale because of what Mitchum told her. And I think that if she had finished her sentence, it would have been:

RORY: If it weren't for him, I wouldn't have dropped out of Yale. I wouldn't have given up on my dream of being a journalist. I wouldn't have made such a rash decision about Yale. I wouldn't have been working here at the DAR.

I just used the above as some examples on what she might have said. But yeah, I believe that a big part of her decision, if not the entire part, was because of Mitchum. 

[hippielamb]

On Thursday, December 01, 2016 at 9:16 PM, Smad said:

So what if she blamed Emily? Chris made a choice. Unless you can prove to me that he really is a robot that was turned on by Emily then he is just as guilty. Because unlike a robot, a human has free will. Chris chose to do what Emily told him to do. I don't even care why. All I know is that if he actually cared about Lorelai, he would have picked up his phone right after Emily left and called Lorelai to tell her what her mother is trying to pull. That's what good friends do. Instead he chose to do what Emily asked of him.

How could he not know he was going to ruin her happiness? Rory freaking told him episodes ago to stay the hell away from Lorelai because she was with someone who made her mom happy, someone more reliable than her own father. What does it matter whether he knew it was Luke or not? He knew, period.

And so what if they have a kid together? Outside of any decisions regarding finances, family vacations, graduations or weddings and the like Lorelai doesn't need to be in any contact with the father of her child.

Chris went about it all wrong but I believe he still thought he could get her back. Lorelai not telling him of her relationship makes it appear that she's not as committed as she claims. They had spent time together (helping with G.G., tequila night, talking on the phone) and during none of this does she mention that she's in a relationship. Yes, Rory told him but Lorelai is the one he has the connection with, yet she says nothing. It gives credence to Christopher's attitude of Luke as a placeholder. 

Chris is more than the father of her child. He's someone she has tonnes of history with, and they have a bond. Cutting ties with the person you share a child with is not easy and the ramifications can affect your child. Lorelai wanted Chris and Rory to have a good relationship, that was partly why she invited Rory to their lunch. She knows that Rory will follow her lead in regards to Chris. If she is on the outs with him, so will Rory. 

[Melancholy]

In another parallel, I think Lorelai was very clearly hoping that Rory and Logan would break up through S5 and even into much of S6 until Logan personally appealed to her in mid-S6. A bunch of that was Lorelai's distaste for Logan, himself, but also she didn't want Rory dealing with the pain and drama of Logan's family disapproving of her. That element is particularly a big deal in S5 when it's a feature of Lorelai arguing against Rogan. However Luke had to deal with what Lorelai didn't want for Rory in S5 except it was worse because of the Chris factor. 

And ironically, Lorelai didn't have a "Logan in But I'm A Gilmore" moment where she defended her partner out loud and stormed out so the partner wouldn't have to sit through more of that garbage until Pulp Friction after Luke reached his breaking point with this junk. I still give Lorelai slack in WBB because of the shock of the moment. But really, at some point during the Long Insult Dinner of Insults in I Jump, You Jump Jack, Lorelai really should have stood up to Emily with a, "We all see what you're doing here and it stinks. As much as diner roadkill. Enough already- we're leaving." Because it is Lorelai's/Logan's job because Luke/Rory are circumscribed from yelling at other parents. 

[needschocolate]

I think the main reason Lorelei shut out Rory was because Rory went to live with the Gilmores. The Gilmores agreed to go with Lorelei's plan then they didn't.  We know that Rory approached Richard, but, in typical TV fashion, that wasn't explained to Lorelei.  Therefore, Lorelei felt that her parents betrayed her.  Plus, Rory knows how how Lorelei feels about the Gilmores, so Lorelei viewed Rory going to live with them as Rory betraying her - chosing her parents over her.  I can see how Lorelei, who is has a history of being quick to react and to judge and to be offended (She is not the most mature person), would view this as "well, you have all turned against me so I don't want to have anything to do with any of you."  It isn't how a person should handle it, but it is not out of character for Lorelei to handle it that way.  

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, needschocolate said:

I think the main reason Lorelei shut out Rory was because Rory went to live with the Gilmores. The Gilmores agreed to go with Lorelei's plan then they didn't.  We know that Rory approached Richard, but, in typical TV fashion, that wasn't explained to Lorelei.  Therefore, Lorelei felt that her parents betrayed her.  Plus, Rory knows how how Lorelei feels about the Gilmores, so Lorelei viewed Rory going to live with them as Rory betraying her - chosing her parents over her.  I can see how Lorelei, who is has a history of being quick to react and to judge and to be offended (She is not the most mature person), would view this as "well, you have all turned against me so I don't want to have anything to do with any of you."  It isn't how a person should handle it, but it is not out of character for Lorelei to handle it that way.  

If you think about it, the Season 1 episode where Rory fled to stay with E&R foreshadowed this.

[chessiegal]

11 minutes ago, deaja said:

If you think about it, the Season 1 episode where Rory fled to stay with E&R foreshadowed this.

Oh, absolutely. There are other foreshadowings where it's clear the writers have certain plot lines in mind and carry them out to a more extreme in later episodes.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Reposting this here because it seems more suitable. 

I think the adults in Rory's life left her to hang at a pivotal moment in her life. Lorelai especially. Rory was going through a crises at the end of S5 and though she's been accused by critics as crumbling at one criticism, I see it as her taking ti heart and realizing the truth in what Mitchum was saying. It was a moment of realization that she's been fighting for a future that she might not be suitable for at all. Instead of Lorelai listening to her fears and offering proper counsel she dismissed all her concerns and when Rory didn't go back to "their" plan, she responded by shutting her out. For MONTHS.

I am sorry but that was cruel of Lorelai. Moving to her grandparents or taking time off college is not grounds for such a drastic and cold response. She should've known that the girl she raised won't drop out of school if something wasn't seriously wrong and that is not the time to punish her. But it was her way or the high way, and because Rory loved her mother, she went back to school to pursue the career her mother preferred for her. 

[Melancholy]

I agree. I also think Rory tried harder to mend the rift like going to Luke to try to find a way to Lorelai or going to Sookie's baptism and trying to give Lorelai her new cell phone number. Lorelai got out of her car to talk to Rory only to heap scorn on her and humiliate her for doing community service. Meanwhile, Rory responded to that in a much more heartfelt vulnerable way. "You and Luke getting engaged and not telling me? You hurt me." Rory had to invite Lorelai by paper invitation and then by phone to her birthday. Lorelai didn't expend any effort to mend the rift other than attending Rory's birthday after she was invited twice. The rest of the time, she basically just sat there waiting for Rory to change back her whole life so Rory's own mother would deign to talk to her. 

There's a sick joke to Lorelai replacing Rory with Paul Anka. There's the surface hyper-indulgence and affection but it all comes with a desire for a daughter who'd be as faithful and dependent and loyal as a dog. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

14 minutes ago, Melancholy said:

I agree. I also think Rory tried harder to mend the rift like going to Luke to try to find a way to Lorelai or going to Sookie's baptism and trying to give Lorelai her new cell phone number. Lorelai got out of her car to talk to Rory only to heap scorn on her and humiliate her for doing community service. Meanwhile, Rory responded to that in a much more heartfelt vulnerable way. "You and Luke getting engaged and not telling me? You hurt me." Rory had to invite Lorelai by paper invitation and then by phone to her birthday. Lorelai didn't expend any effort to mend the rift other than attending Rory's birthday after she was invited twice. The rest of the time, she basically just sat there waiting for Rory to change back her whole life so Rory's own mother would deign to talk to her. 

There's a sick joke to Lorelai replacing Rory with Paul Anka. There's the surface hyper-indulgence and affection but it all comes with a desire for a daughter who'd be as faithful and dependent and loyal as a dog. 

I am really hating Lorelai more and more as I watch these episodes. I didn't realize how isolated Rory was during this time, she couldn't even have a friend in the maid. Emily won't allow it. It was nice to hear speak Spanish. Paris became Lorelai's friend?

Quote

There's a sick joke to Lorelai replacing Rory with Paul Anka. There's the surface hyper-indulgence and affection but it all comes with a desire for a daughter who'd be as faithful and dependent and loyal as a dog. 

Lorelei's choices is souring the relationship I liked so much. 

Luke handled the situation as best as he given given how little room Lorelai gave him to have an opinion. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[chessiegal]

13 minutes ago, Melancholy said:

I agree. I also think Rory tried harder to mend the rift like going to Luke to try to find a way to Lorelai or going to Sookie's baptism and trying to give Lorelai her new cell phone number. Lorelai got out of her car to talk to Rory only to heap scorn on her and humiliate her for doing community service. Meanwhile, Rory responded to that in a much more heartfelt vulnerable way. "You and Luke getting engaged and not telling me? You hurt me." Rory had to invite Lorelai by paper invitation and then by phone to her birthday. Lorelai didn't expend any effort to mend the rift other than attending Rory's birthday after she was invited twice. The rest of the time, she basically just sat there waiting for Rory to change back her whole life so Rory's own mother would deign to talk to her. 

There's a sick joke to Lorelai replacing Rory with Paul Anka. There's the surface hyper-indulgence and affection but it all comes with a desire for a daughter who'd be as faithful and dependent and loyal as a dog. 

I see the whole Paul Anka story differently. When the dog got sick and she stayed up with him all night, she's crying telling Luke she's a bad mother, that the dog was trying to tell her something and she didn't listen. Just like Rory was trying to tell her something and she didn't listen, and she realized she had screwed up with Rory.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

2 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

I see the whole Paul Anka story differently. When the dog got sick and she stayed up with him all night, she's crying telling Luke she's a bad mother, that the dog was trying to tell her something and she didn't listen. Just like Rory was trying to tell her something and she didn't listen, and she realized she had screwed up with Rory.

And what did she do with that epiphany? A big fact nothing.

If she really realized she screwed up with Rory and continued to not speak to her, leaving the mending fences the child  who was going through the crises while doing community services .... Well Lorelai is a shittier mother than I thought her to be two minutes ago. 

[Melancholy]

9 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

I see the whole Paul Anka story differently. When the dog got sick and she stayed up with him all night, she's crying telling Luke she's a bad mother, that the dog was trying to tell her something and she didn't listen. Just like Rory was trying to tell her something and she didn't listen, and she realized she had screwed up with Rory.

Then, why didn't Lorelai try to correct her mistake and go talk to Rory? Then, it's just a matter of Lorelai driving over to her parents' house and asking to speak to Rory. (Since she didn't take Rory's cell number like an idiot.) Instead, Lorelai continued to stay away and fumpher around even after Lane said that Rory was crashing at Lane's because something must have happened with the grandparents. AGAIN, Rory had to reach out by the end of The Prodigal Daughter to stay that she's done everything that Lorelai wants so can please be allowed to come over to her home? 

I think Lorelai's pain in that scene was real. However, I don't think Lorelai was blaming herself for not supporting Rory as Rory asked. I think she just doing her genuine blame but also mostly self-pity/martyrdom that she failed Rory by not rearing her to stick their ideal path of Rory staying an Ivy League student bound for a great career who was firmly in Lorelai's camp instead of the Emily/Richard's. 

I agree that Luke did the best he could to be the Loyal Opposition to how Lorelai was treating Rory and putting his life on hold indefinitely because Lorelai wasn't even trying to resolve her own family problems. After all of this, I sort of really don't give a crap about how Lorelai wanted get married ON JUNE 3RD which she decided entirely on her own without consulting Luke after Sookie informed Luke (with Lorelai's tacit approval) that he doesn't get a voice on the marriage because of groom-rules or whatever. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Melancholy

[chessiegal]

7 minutes ago, Melancholy said:

Then, why didn't Lorelai try to correct her mistake and go talk to Rory? Then, it's just a matter of Lorelai driving over to her parents' house and asking to speak to Rory. (Since she didn't take Rory's cell number like an idiot.) Instead, Lorelai continued to stay away and fumpher around even after Lane said that Rory was crashing at Lane's because something must have happened with the grandparents. AGAIN, Rory had to reach out by the end of The Prodigal Daughter to stay that she's done everything that Lorelai wants so can please be allowed to come over to her home? 

I think Lorelai's pain in that scene was real. However, I don't think Lorelai was blaming herself for not supporting Rory as Rory asked. I think she just doing her genuine blame but also mostly self-pity/martyrdom that she failed Rory by not rearing her to stick their ideal path of Rory staying an Ivy League student bound for a great career who was firmly in Lorelai's camp instead of the Emily/Richard's. 

I agree that Luke did the best he could to be the Loyal Opposition to how Lorelai was treating Rory and putting his life on hold indefinitely because Lorelai wasn't even trying to resolve her own family problems. After all of this, I sort of really don't give a crap about how Lorelai wanted get married ON JUNE 3RD which she decided entirely on her own without consulting Luke after Sookie informed Luke (with Lorelai's tacit approval) that he doesn't get a voice on the marriage because of groom-rules or whatever. 

After Lorelai and Rory reconciled, Lorelai admits she should have gone in and pulled her out of the situation. At the time, Lorelai felt Rory should find her own way out, but from the dialogue regretted that decision.

[tarotx]

I think Lorelai felt defeated and a failure. Rory was fully in with the Grandparents after they had betrayed Lorelai's plan and she was allowing Rory to live her own life. Which I get but it didn't go well. Season 6 is a troubled season. I'm rewatching it right now. In fact, I just watched the Valentines episodes and well it should have prepared us for the worse of Dan's revival episodes >.< 

[Melancholy]

8 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

After Lorelai and Rory reconciled, Lorelai admits she should have gone in and pulled her out of the situation. At the time, Lorelai felt Rory should find her own way out, but from the dialogue regretted that decision.

Eh, that line of Lorelai's falls on the empty side for me. If that speech with Paul Anka was supposed to be Lorelai's epiphany, Lorelai didn't act on the same epiphany for days. I also don't know if Lorelai mainly regrets that she didn't strut into the Hartford Mansion and make some big powerful winning speech that would have changed Rory's mind or that she didn't agree to some kind of compromise with Rory that may well have looked like Rory taking a easy job at Stars Hallow until she figures out her next move (which Lorelai pooh poohed). I tend to think that Lorelai regrets that she lacked the confidence to make the winning speech that would have changed Rory's mind and made her go back to Yale. And that doesn't impress because Rory needed patient understanding over the long-term more than a dramatic pull-out. 

Also, it doesn't feel like Lorelai learned a lesson when she pulls similar crap with Luke in the second half of the season. If Lorelai learned that she should work to find a compromise with her loved ones instead of just silently sulking that they're not doing what she wants, it doesn't explain how she handles Luke/April. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

1 hour ago, tarotx said:

I think Lorelai felt defeated and a failure. Rory was fully in with the Grandparents after they had betrayed Lorelai's plan and she was allowing Rory to live her own life. Which I get but it didn't go well. Season 6 is a troubled season. I'm rewatching it right now. In fact, I just watched the Valentines episodes and well it should have prepared us for the worse of Dan's revival episodes >.< 

Of course Lorelai felt defeated and a failure because it is all about her. So she stayed in her own corner of CT and left her daughter to wallow in whatever Rory was going through at the older Gilmore's mercy (given how much she loathes her parents, she couldn't have possibly though Rory was having a ball even if the reality of Rory's stay with them was pleasant for the most part) She left Rory to twist in the wind. Again, for MONTHS. 

Her parents' so called betrayal -- again, they didn't abide by her rules so of course it is a betrayal to Lorelai -- wasn't on Rory. She shouldn't have punished her for the decision made by Emily and Richard. 

Not that I fault Richard. When your grandchild comes to you sobbing in the way Rory did, you help her. Period. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Melancholy]

Well, I do think Richard and Emily shouldn't have promised Rory a place to stay until they all discussed together with Lorelai. It wasn't their place to take Rory in without even informing Lorelai before the decision was final. The Lorelai-Run Intervention should have been reoriented to an Open Discussion once it became clear that Rory had her own valid POV that meant a great deal to her but Lorelai shouldn't have been cut out of the decision until after it was already final. 

[junienmomo]

6 hours ago, Melancholy said:

Well, I do think Richard and Emily shouldn't have promised Rory a place to stay until they all discussed together with Lorelai. It wasn't their place to take Rory in without even informing Lorelai before the decision was final. The Lorelai-Run Intervention should have been reoriented to an Open Discussion once it became clear that Rory had her own valid POV that meant a great deal to her but Lorelai shouldn't have been cut out of the decision until after it was already final. 

Agreed. They could also have given her a few weeks cooling off period then put pressure on her to reconcile with Lorelai. Lorelai has a history to caving to her parents (or running from them) under pressure. However, I think Emily was truly happy with Rory living there and being the daughter she always wanted. That worked really well until the discovery of ships sailing to Fiji. Then Rory ran again. Not to independence, or choosing to stand on her own two feet, but back home to mama. Understandable given the premise of GG, but a little thin on apologies and making amends.

Edited December 10, 2016 by junienmomo

[Kohola3]

Tough love, baby, tough love.  Rory made her decision, ran to Grammy and Grampy to be coddled and cossetted knowing that they stabbed her mother in the back.  She made her bed - it was up to her to ultimately admit she was wrong.  That's called a life lesson.

[Melancholy]

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Agreed. They could also have given her a few weeks cooling off period then put pressure on her to reconcile with Lorelai. Lorelai has a history to caving to her parents (or running from them) under pressure. However, I think Emily was truly happy with Rory living there and being the daughter she always wanted. That worked really well until the discovery of ships sailing to Fiji. Then Rory ran again. Not to independence, or choosing to stand on her own two feet, but back home to mama. Understandable given the premise of GG, but a little thin on apologies and making amends.

I'd argue that Rory wasn't particularly dependent on Lorelai when she went back for the entire remainder of the series. Christopher was paying for college. Rory had a low paying job at the Stanford Eagle Gazette. She lived with Logan or in a rathole of an apartment with Paris and Doyle and was likely using the Stanford Eagle Gazette money to pay for it. Rory stayed with Lorelai on vacations from college- I don't know if you're arguing that Lorelai should have refused to host Rory on her vacations. But mainly, Rory clearly ran back to the hugging, fun, friendship, support part of her relationship but that doesn't seem like a disparaging "run back home to mama." College kids are still...kids and they should have an adult support system.

A parent's job is by no means finished just because their kid is in college. Lorelai made a big mistake to temporarily abdicate that job. Rory, naturally, looked her grandparents to fill that void. The grandparents should have been reconciliatory influences instead of aggravating influences but I actually have a hard time blaming Rory for moving in with the grandparents after Lorelai refused to take her back in unless she was going to college. It goes back to Deputy Deputy COS's point that Rory's whole family did her a big disservice and I'd argue, were all more interested in playing out their own dramas about their life meanings than helping the youngest, most vulnerable member of their family who was going through a personal crisis. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Melancholy

[TwirlyGirly]

8 hours ago, Melancholy said:

Well, I do think Richard and Emily shouldn't have promised Rory a place to stay until they all discussed together with Lorelai. It wasn't their place to take Rory in without even informing Lorelai before the decision was final. The Lorelai-Run Intervention should have been reoriented to an Open Discussion once it became clear that Rory had her own valid POV that meant a great deal to her but Lorelai shouldn't have been cut out of the decision until after it was already final. 

When you say "all discussed together with Lorelai," is Rory included in the "all"?

I ask because Rory was 20 years old at the time - a legal adult. So neither Rory, Emily, or Richard needed Lorelai's permission or even agreement that Rory stay with her grandparents.

OTOH, if Rory was part of the "all," that I can get behind. Frankly, all of adults involved handled the situation poorly.

Rory felt overwhelmed by her circumstances and needed her mother to listen and at least try to read between the lines and help her to see there were options other than "return to Yale and continue to pursue a career in journalism" and "drop out of Yale until I figure out something more suitable." At 20, our brains aren't fully developed and often perceive situations in terms of black and white, obscuring the many shades of grey that lie between.

At the outset, Lorelai should have listened to Rory (as opposed to what amounted to a knee-jerk reaction) and tried to effect a compromise that would address both their concerns.

Richard and Emily should not have agreed to Lorelai's plan to "triple team" Rory, even if they agreed with her reasoning on principle. They should have pointed out that Rory was a legal adult (and therefore could drop out if that's what she wanted to do, despite their disapproval), that she was in an emotional state, feeling overwhelmed, and that trying to force her into doing something without discussing other options with her would likely backfire. Richard and Emily didn't possess the only roof in town available to Rory.

Ideally, they should have all gotten together - Rory included - and presented options other than dropping out of Yale. And then given Rory time to mull over those options (and hopefully realize it wasn't an "all or nothing at all" situation).

[Melancholy]

That's exactly what I meant TwirlyGirly. I think that's 100 percent how things should have gone down. I absolutely included Rory in the "all." I wouldn't agree wit Rory dropping out of Yale but IMO, the whole INTERVENTION, MAKE RORY GO BACK plan did become a little inappropriate after it was clear that Rory felt strongly that she wanted to take time off and Rory was just asking for time off from school. Interventions are typically reserved for people who are inarguably fucking up like drug addicts or alcoholics. Not for taking time off from university.  It should have been an open discussion, including both Lorelais.

ETA: it's particularly ridiculous that these same episodes also feature Lorelai coddling the construction workers with USO shows and paying TJ and Tom a lot extra so TJ thinks he's the contractor. However Lorelai couldn't have put up her only daughter if she wanted to take time from college. It's a classic case of preferring niceness that can be loudly performed and comes with applause from fresh faces. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Melancholy

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

13 hours ago, Melancholy said:

Well, I do think Richard and Emily shouldn't have promised Rory a place to stay until they all discussed together with Lorelai. It wasn't their place to take Rory in without even informing Lorelai before the decision was final. The Lorelai-Run Intervention should have been reoriented to an Open Discussion once it became clear that Rory had her own valid POV that meant a great deal to her but Lorelai shouldn't have been cut out of the decision until after it was already final. 

But whose decision is it given that Lorelai and Rory had had a falling out if not her grandparents? What was Richard supposed to do when Rory came to him sobbing the way she did. Wipe her face, sit her down and then call Lorelai to decide Rory's life? 

If that is how it works, for the parents to be always notified when a runaway shows up, Mia should have tracked down Emily and Richard when Lorelai showed up 16 and pregnant. 

Adding as I am watching:

Richard - It would have been nice to talk to Rory herself about what she intends to do with her near future instead of asking Logan. Logan is not Rory's oracle. 

Emily and Richard - Instead of going through her things, maybe sit Rory down and talk to her. 

That said, Emily's reaction to the Berkin bag tickles me as always. Rory's was adorable too. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Melancholy]

51 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

But whose decision is it given that Lorelai and Rory had had a falling out if not her grandparents? What was Richard supposed to do when Rory came to him sobbing like the way she did. Wipe her face, sit her down and then call Lorelai to decide Rory's life? 

If that is how it works, for the parents to be always notified when a runaway shows up, Mia should have tracked down Emily and Richard when Lorelai showed up 16 and pregnant. 

Yes, Richard should have comforted Rory but said they would hold off on making long term plans until the whole family sat down that night. I hate Lorelai's initial "my way or the high way" but as Rory's normally devoted mother, she should have been consulted on plans for her daughter instead summarily cut out based on one conversation. I have more empathy because I think Rory was terrified and panicked and not thinking straight. But that's where the grandparents should have been calming influences. 

And I have always maintained that Mia was unbelievably inappropriate to take Lorelai without a word to her parents. 

[Lady Calypso]

I think the other issue with the whole disaster of Rory/Lorelai's fight is that Richard and Emily did take in Rory without talking to Lorelai. Ultimately, it's Rory's decision on what she does because she's an adult at this point, but Lorelai is Rory's mother and has been a pretty good one. And also, Richard didn't see a problem with Rory dropping out of Yale and living with them until he found out the reason why. Neither Emily nor Richard believed Lorelai when she told them that the Huntzbergers were incredibly rude and dismissive of Rory. They thought Lorelai was lying about it and I think that added to why Emily/Richard didn't push Rory to reconcile with her mother, or to consider going back to Yale. 

Frankly, the only mature one in this entire situation was Luke. He stayed in contact with Rory, continued to try to get Lorelai to reconcile with Rory, but also respected her decision when she didn't. He helped take care of Lorelai and Paul Anka, even when he knew Paul Anka was a substitute for Rory, and he tried to maintain the peace on both ends. Too bad we couldn't have kept this version of Luke for the rest of season six. 

1 hour ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

But whose decision is it given that Lorelai and Rory had had a falling out if not her grandparents? What was Richard supposed to do when Rory came to him sobbing like the way she did. Wipe her face, sit her down and then call Lorelai to decide Rory's life? 

For me, the mature thing to do would have been to sit down with Rory, tell her that they'll figure it out together, and then get Lorelai there to discuss the situation. He shouldn't have made promises just because Rory was upset. At least, if Rory took the offer of living with her grandparents, Lorelai would have been part of the conversation instead of completely left out. It's still Rory's choice and there's no way Lorelai would have been happy either, but it also wouldn't be backstabbing Lorelai by going out of their way to not include her until Rory was already moving in. It also isn't a smart idea to make decisions in such an emotional state. I'd hope Rory/Richard/Emily discussed it when Rory wasn't sobbing from her failures, but I also realize that Rory was in a pretty emotional state for a while. 

Rory has been known to avoid confrontation. That's not in her nature (which is why her wanting to be a war zone journalist made so little sense). Richard and Emily should have gotten Lorelai there to talk about it together before making any decisions. It's as simple as that, or at least I think it should have been simple. 

And yes, Mia should have at least attempted to contact Richard and Emily to let them know that Lorelai was with her and safe. Not only Lorelai, but baby Rory too.  

[TwirlyGirly]

9 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

<snip>

If that is how it works, for the parents to be always notified when a runaway shows up, Mia should have tracked down Emily and Richard when Lorelai showed up 16 and pregnant. 

<snip>

Admittedly, I have been known to miss important details in GG. But what I think I remember is Rory was almost a year old when Lorelai left her parent's house. Unless I'm forgetting something, it's possible Lorelai was 18, and a legal adult, at the time she left.

She got pregnant at 16 - but do we know whether that was near the beginning, or end, of her 16th year? If closer to the end, then she would have been at the middle to end of her 17th year when Rory was born, and perhaps just past her 18th birthday when she picked up and left her parent's home.

If Lorelai was 18 when she showed up at the Independence Inn, she was legally an adult. We don't know what story Lorelai told Mia about her situation living with her parents (except that Lorelai is prone to emotional overstatement).

I can't say for certain if I were in Mia's position I would contact the girl's parents if the girl was 18, and made it appear she had been subjected to some type of abuse (emotional, in Lorelai's case - at least, that may be how she presented it to Mia). I might be more likely to offer the girl and her baby a safe haven, while encouraging her to contact her parents herself, to let them know she (and their granddaughter) were safe.

[chessiegal]

33 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Admittedly, I have been known to miss important details in GG. But what I think I remember is Rory was almost a year old when Lorelai left her parent's house. Unless I'm forgetting something, it's possible Lorelai was 18, and a legal adult, at the time she left.

She got pregnant at 16 - but do we know whether that was near the beginning, or end, of her 16th year? If closer to the end, then she would have been at the middle to end of her 17th year when Rory was born, and perhaps just past her 18th birthday when she picked up and left her parent's home.

If Lorelai was 18 when she showed up at the Independence Inn, she was legally an adult. We don't know what story Lorelai told Mia about her situation living with her parents (except that Lorelai is prone to emotional overstatement).

I can't say for certain if I were in Mia's position I would contact the girl's parents if the girl was 18, and made it appear she had been subjected to some type of abuse (emotional, in Lorelai's case - at least, that may be how she presented it to Mia). I might be more likely to offer the girl and her baby a safe haven, while encouraging her to contact her parents herself, to let them know she (and their granddaughter) were safe.

Yes, in "Dear Richard and Emily", Emily comes down the staircase and comments it's the 1st time in a year she hasn't tripped over Rory's stroller. So Rory is at least a year old.

[Taryn74]

55 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Admittedly, I have been known to miss important details in GG. But what I think I remember is Rory was almost a year old when Lorelai left her parent's house. Unless I'm forgetting something, it's possible Lorelai was 18, and a legal adult, at the time she left.

 

We've figured out the timeline before, based on lining up comments and birthdays from several different episodes.  Lorelai was 15 when she got pregnant, turning 16 when she "found out" and told her parents, and not quite 18 when she and Rory left the Gilmore mansion.

[TwirlyGirly]

9 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

We've figured out the timeline before, based on lining up comments and birthdays from several different episodes.  Lorelai was 15 when she got pregnant, turning 16 when she "found out" and told her parents, and not quite 18 when she and Rory left the Gilmore mansion.

Thanks, Taryn! As I said, I sometimes miss important details. I also forgot there are Wikipedia pages for fictional characters. Lorelai Gilmore's page says her birthdate is April 16, 1968, and Rory's page states her birthdate as October 8, 1984.

Is there an episode in which Lorelai's birth year is mentioned? I know you said the timeline is based on "lining up comments and birthdays from several different episodes," but I'm wondering if anyone else remembers whether the actual year of Lorelai's birth is stated in any of the scripts.

If that birth year is correct, then Lorelai was still a minor when she left her parent's house with Rory, and may have still been a minor when she showed up at the Independence Inn - in which case Mia absolutely should have contacted Emily and Richard (or even CPS) and notified them.

Unless...do we know for sure Lorelai went straight to Stars Hollow/the Independence Inn from her parent's house? Or could she (and Rory) have done some couch surfing for a few months before ending up at the Independence shortly after her 18th birthday?

It doesn't appear (from what I recall) that the Gilmore family had any familiarity with Stars Hollow until Lorelai ended up living there. So how would Lorelai have known about it, thought to go there, and look for a job - straight from her parent's house? To me, it's more conceivable that she floundered around for a few months, perhaps staying with friends or those she met sympathetic to her story, and then perhaps accidentally ran into someone from Stars Hollow (Miss Patty, perhaps?) who suggested she move there and possibly get a job at the Independence. I'm remembering Rory telling Dean to ask Miss Patty about jobs, because she knew everything about Stars Hollow and what might be available there.

That seems more plausible to me, only because I don't see Mia's character as being someone who would knowingly harbor a minor child (Lorelai) and not notify their parents or the authorities.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Is there an episode in which Lorelai's birth year is mentioned? I know you said the timeline is based on "lining up comments and birthdays from several different episodes," but I'm wondering if anyone else remembers whether the actual year of Lorelai's birth is stated in any of the scripts.

Not technically, but they made a big thing in Happy Birthday, Baby that it was her 35th birthday.  HBB aired in 2003, which would put her being born in 1968.  And she was getting ready for her 16th birthday coming-out party when she realized she was pregnant with Rory, according to Dear Emily and Richard.  That was 1984 which also puts her being born in 1968.

 

Meant to add - I actually think your suggestion that she spent at least a few weeks in between leaving home and stumbling across the Independence Inn and going to work for Mia, makes the most sense even though we're never really told anything like that in the canon of the show.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Taryn74

[hippielamb]

16 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I can't say for certain if I were in Mia's position I would contact the girl's parents if the girl was 18, and made it appear she had been subjected to some type of abuse (emotional, in Lorelai's case - at least, that may be how she presented it to Mia). I might be more likely to offer the girl and her baby a safe haven, while encouraging her to contact her parents herself, to let them know she (and their granddaughter) were safe.

I can't fault Mia for anything she did, as I think it was her encouragement that led Lorelai to at least let her parents know where she and Rory was. (As for the age issue, it is possible that Lorelai lied about her age.) I can't fault Richard either when dealing with a clearly upset Rory. He had never seen her so distressed before, and we know that he adored her. I think she played him because Lorelai was being so stern about her coming home. They are her grandparents and if they had turned her away, she would have gone to Logan or someone else. This brings it back to the Mia and Lorelai situation. I doubt if Mia had said no that Lorelai would have gone back to her parents. She already wrote them the letter and her mind was made up. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, hippielamb said:

I can't fault Mia for anything she did, as I think it was her encouragement that led Lorelai to at least let her parents know where she and Rory was. (As for the age issue, it is possible that Lorelai lied about her age.) I can't fault Richard either when dealing with a clearly upset Rory. He had never seen her so distressed before, and we know that he adored her. I think she played him because Lorelai was being so stern about her coming home. They are her grandparents and if they had turned her away, she would have gone to Logan or someone else. This brings it back to the Mia and Lorelai situation. I doubt if Mia had said no that Lorelai would have gone back to her parents. She already wrote them the letter and her mind was made up. 

For me, it's not that either Mia or Richard had to turn them away. The issue is that they should have found a way to include all members of the family. For Mia, it's a trickier situation because Lorelai most likely embellished how bad her parents were because that's her biased perspective. She truly thought that her parents were awful and that she could never be part of their world. Mia only had Lorelai's perspective, and with a young baby, there's no way Mia could turn her away. It would have been nice for her to find a way to contact her parents to let them know that Lorelai was safe, but she did the right thing in accepting Lorelai and helping her out, plus Lorelai eventually did tell her parents where she was so it ended up being a lot better than if Lorelai had been turned away by Mia. There's no way Lorelai would have moved back home, so she would have kept wandering with baby Rory.

Richard, on the other hand, did get played by Rory. It was probably unintentional on her part, at least half unintentional. Her mom didn't support her very rash decision to drop out of Yale and Rory's ambitions and passions seemed to disappear from Mitchum's harsh criticism, so she fled to her grandparents to help her out. They didn't need to turn her away either, but they also know Rory and Lorelai's relationship. The fact that Richard decided, along with Emily, to decide Rory's next few weeks or months without Lorelai's input is pretty disappointing. Rory knew that she'd have her grandparents to support her since her own mother decided to actually put her foot down and say no to her. We've seen this before in season 1, when Lorelai and Rory had that fight and she ran off to her grandparents because she knew they wouldn't turn her away. But she was sixteen then. Now, in this season, she's 20 on the verge of 21. Even if her grandparents decided to side with Lorelai, Rory would have run off to Logan, who would have gladly taken her in. We saw that he might have disapproved of Rory dropping out of Yale, but he all he did was support her bad decision. It's a smart move on his end because at least she would know that Logan had her back, but he still enabled her behaviour in a way. 

Rory's 100% lucky in that she has a lot more options in her life if things don't go her way. If it's not her mom, then it's her grandparents. If it's not her grandparents, then it's her friends or boyfriend. She'll always have something or someone to fall back on, as demonstrated here. It's something her mom didn't have because of the environment she grew up in. Even with her running away, she had nowhere to go because all of the people in her inner circle at the time were part of the same inner circle as her family. She had no true options to escape, so she had to make it on her own, and she did. She was lucky to have found Mia, but it was clear that she worked hard to get to where she is by this present day. Rory's worked hard in her own way, but she's also had many people to fall back on if she ever needs it. And it's why she can get away with a lot, because she knows she always has someone to be on her side and help her out.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Quote

Richard, on the other hand, did get played by Rory

I am sorry, I don't buy this reasoning. It implies that she had this elaborate nefarious plan to screw over her grandparents and her mother -- the people she loved most int e world ---is definitely not the type of person Rory is. 

I mean, the girl was in a world of pain, but I guess I don't expect her to be given the benefit of the doubt given how hated she is. 

[Lady Calypso]

6 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am sorry, I don't buy this reasoning. It implies that she had this elaborate nefarious plan to screw over her grandparents and her mother -- the people she loved most int e world ---is definitely not the type of person Rory is. 

I mean, the girl was in a world of pain, but I guess I don't expect her to be given the benefit of the doubt given how hated she is. 

I know that "played" is probably not the best word to describe the situation. Hopefully, I can explain myself better here. I don't doubt that Rory was upset and hurting. She was going through an intense identity crisis. Something she had been working for her entire life crashed down with one person telling her, for once, that she wouldn't be good at it. After so much encouragement, she's probably never faced such harsh rejection before. Add that to Lorelai telling her that she couldn't drop out of school and having the "mom card" played, Rory might have been realizing that things weren't going her way after all. She's probably never dealt with anything like this before. She got into Chilton easily, she got into all of her college choices, and she's been very lucky in having her schools paid off by her grandparents. 

I guess what I mean by "played" is that she knew that her grandparents would be there to support her. Her tears were real, but I do think her previous experiences of running to her grandparents when she didn't have her mom on her side, or when she was in a bind, showed her that they would be there for her again. She asked her grandparents to help her out of a bind. It's understandable, but this is after she lost the support from her own mother. Rory was already moving into the pool house a mere few hours after she came to them. It's not unfair to say that her grandparents should have helped her out in her time of need. It's just that I think that she went there to look for validation, for someone to tell her that she could drop out and that they could help her out. 

Richard even told Lorelai that him and Emily discussed the matter, implying that they made the decision and Rory just agreed to it. I think because she avoids confrontation and avoids conflict so much, that she looks to others to solve her problems. Rory told Lorelai in her conversation in the season 5 finale that she didn't want to float through university after deciding that she didn't want to be a journalist. She lost herself, but it seemed like she kind of gave up and wanted someone to tell her where her future would lie. Going to her grandparents was a way to get someone to tell her where to go and what to do. 

So yeah, "played" isn't quite the word, I guess. I'm not sure what word I would use. I guess Rory depended on her grandparents to help her through her identity crisis when her mother wouldn't let her drop out of school or "bum around in Stars Hollow", as Lorelai put it.