S12.E24: Family Affair

[Chewy101]

45 minutes ago, izabella said:

Amelia's family SUCKS.  Not one of them would come to her wedding?  Seriously?  Not even one of the sisters?  Not even with the added attraction of visiting Derek's children?

I found that incredibly out of character when we have met Amelia's mother and sisters in various episodes throughout the years. I'd think they would all go just to root for some stability in her life. The only one who would be a jerk and not go to the wedding would have been Derek. So Amelia constantly talking about Derek being there for her was ironic to me. 

How on EARTH did Meredith think telling Owen to call Kristina would be a good gauge to see if what they had was good enough. She is such an evil witch. When she was telling Amelia she was there for her, it was so wooden and dead sounding, I would not have bought it for a second.

I definitely hurt for Amelia in this episode, but I also think that was one ugly dress/hair combo. She looked like a 60 year old grandma.

 

Loved the look on Ben's face when he was looking out the front door for the ambulance. "Miranda is going to KILL me if I do this!" That was the stupidest plot ever. A C-section with no sutures or blood? When the last time he did this, he slaughtered that woman.? Ugh. 

Why did Alex even come home then? What time WAS it? The whole episode was skewed for me with time.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Chewy101

[Gladrags]

1 hour ago, GreysFan89 said:

I find it strange that folks think of Grey's as a show were so many characters die -I mean obviously a lot a characters do die but its set in a hospital with sick characters so of course people will die.  But when it comes to season regulars there have been like 28 and only four have died which is not that bad. I mean before the plane crash there had been only one major character who had died, and the plane crash happened at the very end of season 8 - the show just is not the blood bath that people say it is.

Start off with Denny at the end of season 2; George at the end of season 5, along with Izzy flatlining; Reed and Charles - and six or seven extras as well as Gary Clark - at the end of season 6; Lexie at the end of season 8 and all the associated carnage, including Mark dying early in season 9 as part of the same story arc. And while no one literally died at the end of season 9, Meredith's and Richard's lives both hung in the balance, and poor little Heather Brooks died the next season when she also was electrocuted trying to find Richard. 

Nevermind the disasters! Crazed gunman, tunnel collapse, plane crash, wild storm, pedestrian gets hit by a bus, mall explosion ... No wonder this year's finale felt like a breath of fresh air.

[WhosThatGirl]

18 minutes ago, Gladrags said:

Start off with Denny at the end of season 2; George at the end of season 5, along with Izzy flatlining; Reed and Charles - and six or seven extras as well as Gary Clark - at the end of season 6; Lexie at the end of season 8 and all the associated carnage, including Mark dying early in season 9 as part of the same story arc. And while no one literally died at the end of season 9, Meredith's and Richard's lives both hung in the balance, and poor little Heather Brooks died the next season when she also was electrocuted trying to find Richard. 

Nevermind the disasters! Crazed gunman, tunnel collapse, plane crash, wild storm, pedestrian gets hit by a bus, mall explosion ... No wonder this year's finale felt like a breath of fresh air.

Also Ellis and Adele died as well. And Derek's life hung in the balance  when he was shot before his death last season.  I guess it was a nice calm finale.

I just really am confused on the Jo thing, because like I said before, she told Alex to ask again later, so like I said, he was always going to ask her again. Alex probably thought she needed more time, when he asked before they had just started living together, he never would have suspected she had a husband already or something. Again, I feel like the writers just pulled this storyline out of their heads because it totally retcons Jo and her backstory like others have said. And like I said, it shouldn't be a surprise that Alex wants to marry her or ask again, so what did she think was going to happen? She hasn't been trying to divorce her abusive husband during all this time.. what was her plan here? 

[Deanie87]

On 5/20/2016 at 10:56 PM, BaseOps said:

I hope they really dig into this next season, honestly. At this point I don't see how they could gloss over it. They've never given Jo / Alex a season-ending story like this before... it's always been something sort of romantic. This is an actual STORY so I have some hope. Is it sort of soapy and a bit over-the-top for my taste, but I'll take it. I hope that with Callie gone (sigh) we get some real focus on them next year. 

I didn't watch PP closely, just caught the odd episode after Grey's. I could never really get into it. If I'm right, the sisters live in different areas (someone correct me?) I think it seemed to mostly have to do with the idea that Amelia is a junkie and her family thought she was rushing into this so they didn't want to support it... that's what I got from the phone call at the beginning. It probably has a lot more to do with the actors who play her sisters + mother lol. 

I don't expect a really in depth story that makes sense, because honestly, I just don't think that this show can or cares enough to do those anymore, but given that the storyline revolves around domestic violence, I agree they need to tread carefully and not gloss stuff over more than they already do. (Thankfully, after reading some of the post-finale interviews they are aware of this too.)  I think that they have done a pretty good job with Alex over the years in making him overcome a lot, but still revert back to his anger and damage when pushed.  I hope they do the same with Jo, and I hope that they give this storyline at least a little depth, and stop treating her past either like comic relief or as a shortcut for real character development. Frankly, I would love to see them explore this issue from both Jo and Alex's side, since he is no stranger to domestic violence either, and probably is exactly the kind of guy that Jo should stay away from.  Clearly, she has a type. (But I like them together so let that be the thing that the writers ignore, please!)

Quote

Now we all know that this stuff with Jo is a poorly thought out retcon, but it is now canon.  And because of that she looks like an utter shit. I mean, Stephanie got more criticism for breaking up poorly with a guy she barely knew, than it seems Jo is getting for how she is treating Alex.  She basically pulled a long con on him.  And to add insult to injury, she suggest having a baby almost as as a palliative measure because she won't marry him?  Like if it is so dangerous to confide in Alex about some vengeful husband in some misguided attempt to protect him, how is adding a baby to the mix going to make things less dangerous?  Wouldn't that just make things worse? Not exactly smart to bring a kid into such a situation.

Perspective and preferences vary, because I feel like Jo gets called out for every single thing she does and says, no matter how trivial and no matter how many other characters have done the exact same thing or worse, from her entire past to how she eats potato chips.  Nothing she has ever done or said escapes criticism, including this storyline.  I hate the way that she has acted for most of this season, especially because its like she has  new personality in every episode, and none of them fit with who she was introduced as, not to mention stuff that she says and does in any given episode is totally contradicted three episodes later.  But this development has put it kind of back on track for me.  I don't think she is pulling a long con on Alex. I believe that she loves him and wants to spend the rest of her life with him, and was desperate enough not to lose him that she offered to start a family to show how serious she was about that.  It doesn't make sense and it certainly isn't smart, but SHE believes that her husband is that powerful and that dangerous and she believes (rightly so apparently) that Alex is reactionary enough to go looking for trouble should he know the truth, so she acts accordingly.  Thankfully, I have never been a victim of abuse, but I can imagine that someone who has isn't always the best decision maker and does not so smart things when push comes to shove.  I can also believe that for the majority of their relationship, she was able to put all of this stuff out of her mind on purpose, until Alex really started to push for the engagement.  

As I said in the Jo thread, I can nitpick this storyline all summer long until it completely falls apart, or I can just appreciate the fact that Alex and Jo have something to do that peaks my interest, and stays basically true to their characters.  The last two season have nearly ruined my interest in them as a couple and as individuals and, frankly, in the show.  The consistency has been absolutely awful, IMO, and the writing ruined some of the characters that I used to like, screwed the timeline up beyond repair and more characters have been retconned and used for plot purposes than ever before, and that's saying something with this show.  So, I have just decided to act as if they never happened.  Nothing in Jo and Alex's story has changed in the last two seasons except the loft, so it makes it easy.  Everything is exactly as it was in the season 10 finale: Jo is still a resident, they are still not engaged, Alex didn't get the board seat, the Meredith stuff was dropped, the Izzie stuff was dropped, the gun stuff was dropped, Alex's private practice job was dropped.  So with an exception for the loft and an episode here or there, I am just going to will myself into believing that these past two seasons were all a nightmare that I have just woken up from.   I can be just as delusional as these characters when I want to be!

Edited May 21, 2016 by Deanie87

[Nobodysfan]

So WHO was Riggs eyeing in the end: Meredith or Maggie or both of them??? What do you all think?

Is he playing both of them?

It is weird how Nathan was quite emotional in the scene with Meredith talking about Megan and then a few minutes late grinning from ear to ear in my opinion at BOTH women.

Edited May 21, 2016 by NathanRiggsfan

[Chewy101]

I don't sense a lick of chemistry between Riggs and Meredith, but I'm pretty sure that is who he was looking at. Owen is probably going to flip next season.

[Lillybee]

Just how big is Mer's house, after all she has Maggie, Amelia, Callie, Alex and her three children living there. Is anyone still in her attic?

[RedheadZombie]

I couldn't help but feel for whoever had to clean up Meredith's kitchen.  I would have looked like a multiple homicide occurred.  And when I saw Ben pull out a used filthy scalpel, I thought - who would keep such a thing.  Then I realized the answer - a surgeon with Alzheimer's.  And as to medical bags, they are archaic.  I actually wondered where the found the prop for Ellis's old bag.

16 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Saw a bit if outrage on Twitter that Ellen Tweeted a sincere good-bye to Sara Ramirez, yet was dead silent a year ago when her long time co-star was killed off. Personally, I always thought that Shonda had a girl crush on Sara. How many times did someone tell Callie, "you're so hot," in her first few seasons, like they were trying to hammer that point home. As if the audience needed to be told. Damn near ALL her co-stars Tweeted good byes last night. I think Sara can basically do no wrong and come back whenever she feels like it, unlike many other characters.....especially the dead ones. LOL.  But it is obvious how "heartbroken" the cast was last night, contrasted with their silence last year when an original cast member exited. Was there that much bad blood with Dempsey, or were they afraid of the wrath of Shonzilla if they publicly supported him?

If I was an actor, SR would frighten me.  She seems to go full scorched earth when she's displeased.  I think she's always held PD responsible for her decision to fire IW.  Even though the homophobic slur was referring to TRK, the confrontation was between PD and IW, and I think SR had big plans for IW.  On the other hand, if she likes you, you can apparently get a job in one of her other shows.  I don't watch Scandal, but it's weird to see promos including Ellis, Thatcher, and Teddy's dead husband..

13 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

Again, I say, Amelia, you are an addict fresh in recovery. You should not be doing any of this. And no one is there for your recovery. BAH.

It's confusing because the timeline is so wonky, but didn't Amelia relapse way before April even got pregnant?  Which would make it longer than a year since Amelia's relapse.  Yet she told her mother she had gotten involved with Owen a year ago.  So whatever (I think this is what the writers say in the writer's room).  It's not like there aren't websites dedicated to exactly when things happened.  Google is your friend, writers.

6 hours ago, mojito said:

Four times? In a car?

I know.  It's probably as messy back there as Meredith's kitchen.

23 minutes ago, NathanRiggsfan said:

So WHO was Riggs eyeing in the end: Meredith or Maggie or both of them??? What do you all think?

I think he was definitely eyeing Meredith.  It reminded me of Meredith standing up as bridesmaid in April's wedding, and eyeing Derek.  I wondered if it was intentional.

I really liked Meredith the entire episode.  I liked all of her humor, and EP seemed really engaged.  Her eyes were so sparkly and when she teared up talking to Riggs about Derek, it was moving to me.  But then Meredith has always moved me with her crying eyes even when I hated her character.

They're acting like there's going to be a lot of drama next season between Meredith and Maggie fighting over Riggs, but Maggie has a little crush and would back off immediately if she knew there was history with the other two.  So obviously Meredith will insist on keeping the affair a secret, and Maggie will continue crushing. 

[Nobodysfan]

21 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

I don't sense a lick of chemistry between Riggs and Meredith, but I'm pretty sure that is who he was looking at. Owen is probably going to flip next season.

Are you sure it was Meredith?

I do not feel their chemistry either. Their two finale scenes did not help.

Edited May 21, 2016 by NathanRiggsfan

[Nobodysfan]

2 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I couldn't help but feel for whoever had to clean up Meredith's kitchen.  I would have looked like a multiple homicide occurred.  And when I saw Ben pull out a used filthy scalpel, I thought - who would keep such a thing.  Then I realized the answer - a surgeon with Alzheimer's.  And as to medical bags, they are archaic.  I actually wondered where the found the prop for Ellis's old bag.

If I was an actor, SR would frighten me.  She seems to go full scorched earth when she's displeased.  I think she's always held PD responsible for her decision to fire IW.  Even though the homophobic slur was referring to TRK, the confrontation was between PD and IW, and I think SR had big plans for IW.  On the other hand, if she likes you, you can apparently get a job in one of her other shows.  I don't watch Scandal, but it's weird to see promos including Ellis, Thatcher, and Teddy's dead husband..

It's confusing because the timeline is so wonky, but didn't Amelia relapse way before April even got pregnant?  Which would make it longer than a year since Amelia's relapse.  Yet she told her mother she had gotten involved with Owen a year ago.  So whatever (I think this is what the writers say in the writer's room).  It's not like there aren't websites dedicated to exactly when things happened.  Google is your friend, writers.

I know.  It's probably as messy back there as Meredith's kitchen.

I think he was definitely eyeing Meredith.  It reminded me of Meredith standing up as bridesmaid in April's wedding, and eyeing Derek.  I wondered if it was intentional.

I really liked Meredith the entire episode.  I liked all of her humor, and EP seemed really engaged.  Her eyes were so sparkly and when she teared up talking to Riggs about Derek, it was moving to me.  But then Meredith has always moved me with her crying eyes even when I hated her character.

They're acting like there's going to be a lot of drama next season between Meredith and Maggie fighting over Riggs, but Maggie has a little crush and would back off immediately if she knew there was history with the other two.  So obviously Meredith will insist on keeping the affair a secret, and Maggie will continue crushing. 

I will have to rewatch then.

Yes, the way they talked about Derek and Megan was moving, one could feel the love they felt for them and still do.

How on earth did Riggs cheat on Megan (and it was implied it did not happen once)  is beyond logic to me.

[Eolivet]

Great end to a great season. I love how Grey's does weddings -- I just can't think of another show who would come up with the idea that "Maybe he's not my one true love and I'm not his, but I'm going to marry him anyway." I said it in the spoiler thread, and I'll say it again, I find it refreshing that practically no weddings or marriages on this show give the illusion of lasting forever. This show has always been realistic with romance, and that people fall in love and get married for many other reasons than "twu wuv 5evah" and I just love that.

And this episode, for the first time, made me think -- just for a second -- maybe they won't bring Megan back. Maybe Megan is the "lost love of your life" commonality that ties Meredith and Riggs together. And then I remembered this is Grey's -- which is also why we haven't seen Megan yet. Mer has to begin developing real feelings for Riggs before Megan makes her grand reentrance. But other than the clumsy Owen/Riggs rivalry stall, I think the writers have played Meredith moving on perfectly. And I loved that she mentioned Derek to Riggs -- beautifully done. For the most part, I loved the pace at which they moved for Meredith/Riggs, and I can't wait for more next season.

This episode also made me eagerly look forward to the day they cast someone for Maggie who will look at her like she's the sun and the moon, and be happy and proud to be with her. I feel badly for her, but I want more for her than Riggs. Don't chase after someone who won't love you back, Maggie -- you deserve better!

And while I'm being greedy, I want Jackson/April back together -- but not right away. I want to see them try to peaceably co-parent, while trying to deny they're not still madly in love with each other but each is afraid the other doesn't feel the same way, and GAH. Enough real world angst for them -- they've earned some good, old-fashioned romantic angst.

I can't say enough about how good this season was -- how the writers and the actors took on the seemingly near impossible task of a post-McDreamy universe and got it so right. The grieving, the memories, the moving on. The stories were mostly good, heartfelt and interesting. Minority opinion, but I loved that they redeemed Penny. I loved that Meredith and Amelia found peace in the end. I love that Meredith is looking forward to life again.

I loved many of the other stories, too, but this season, Grey's made this Mer fan feel incredibly happy. Like rain on your wedding day.

[windsprints]

Quote

Meredith couldn't think of a single person who had two loves?  Um, what about Derek?  Remember Addison?

 Or Cristina loving both Burke and Owen, Izzie loving both Denny and Alex, Alex loving both Izzie and Jo, Richard loving Adele, Ellis and Catherine. Guess Meredith didn't put much thought into it.

[GreysFan89]

1 hour ago, Gladrags said:

Start off with Denny at the end of season 2; George at the end of season 5, along with Izzy flatlining; Reed and Charles - and six or seven extras as well as Gary Clark - at the end of season 6; Lexie at the end of season 8 and all the associated carnage, including Mark dying early in season 9 as part of the same story arc. And while no one literally died at the end of season 9, Meredith's and Richard's lives both hung in the balance, and poor little Heather Brooks died the next season when she also was electrocuted trying to find Richard. 

Nevermind the disasters! Crazed gunman, tunnel collapse, plane crash, wild storm, pedestrian gets hit by a bus, mall explosion ... No wonder this year's finale felt like a breath of fresh air.

Denny was not a series regular, neither was Reed or Charles or Heather. There has only been 4 major characters who have died in 12 seasons, two because of the same catastrophe - one was way back in season 5 the other in season 11, its not really that many, Grey's being a blood bath is a myth, it just isn't true when it comes to main characters.

[Gladrags]

14 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

Denny was not a series regular, neither was Reed or Charles or Heather. There has only been 4 major characters who have died in 12 seasons, two because of the same catastrophe - one was way back in season 5 the other in season 11, its not really that many, Grey's being a blood bath is a myth, it just isn't true when it comes to main characters.

You asked for blood baths; I gave them to you by pointing out the deaths that occurred in season finales, or as a result of  occurrences in season finales.

I guess deaths don't count if they don't happen to series regulars? Well. Dead is dead. Blood baths are blood baths, no matter who they happen to. 

[GreysFan89]

5 minutes ago, Gladrags said:

You asked for blood baths; I gave them to you by pointing out the deaths that occurred in season finales, or as a result of  occurrences in season finales.

I guess deaths don't count if they don't happen to series regulars? Well. Dead is dead. Blood baths are blood baths, no matter who they happen to. 

Yeah, I know and I knew those deaths, and no I don't think you can count recurring characters deaths as part of a blood bath - in a show like this there is always going to be a lot of deaths, it's a hospital where loads of drama happens! But  Grey's simply is not the blood bath people pretend it is, 4 major characters out of 28 in 12 seasons isn't really that bad.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, NathanRiggsfan said:

So WHO was Riggs eyeing in the end: Meredith or Maggie or both of them??? What do you all think?

Is he playing both of them?

It is weird how Nathan was quite emotional in the scene with Meredith talking about Megan and then a few minutes late grinning from ear to ear in my opinion at BOTH women.

I think it was definitely Meredith.  I hate the idea of the triangle, but you know what I would love?  I would love it is this show actually surprises me next year and 1) Megan is really, truly dead and 2) it turns out that Riggs can;t deal with Mer's brand of drama and finds out that he actually likes Maggie instead.

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

If I was an actor, SR would frighten me.  She seems to go full scorched earth when she's displeased.  I think she's always held PD responsible for her decision to fire IW.  Even though the homophobic slur was referring to TRK, the confrontation was between PD and IW, and I think SR had big plans for IW.  On the other hand, if she likes you, you can apparently get a job in one of her other shows.  I

So many years later and this backstage drama b/t IW, TRK and KH is still a defining element of this show.  At the time I sopped it up with a biscutim because, hey I love backstage gossip.  But years later, I have come to actually believe that Shonda has a right to be however much a boss that she has to be to keep the trains running on time on her show.  IIRC reports after the fact seemed to indicate that ABC had the situation pretty much handled in house and behind the scenes quietly, but apparently somebody didn't think that was enough so the story got leaked. 

No matter who you like or what you feel, doing something that causes negative attention to your boss or your company is not a good idea.  it almost feels like whoever leaked the story was trying to force her and ABC's hand.  Now remember she was the only black female showrunner on a major network at the time and the pressure of that had to be enormous.  The whole "have to work twice as hard to get half as much' is not a myth.  You can imagine that backstage implosions that reflected badly on ABC would have had much bigger repercussions on her than a white male showrunner.  She couldn't afford to lose control of her people like that.  Back then this had no resonance for me.  Now I am a bit more woke, so I get it now.  So yeah, in hindsight I have no problem with her bringing the hammer and taking no shit.  Even outside of Hollywood and amongst us regular poors, if you get into a dispute with your boss (unless it has a legal basis) you are gonna lose all the time.  No matter how righteous your position you are going to lose.  And it has nothing to do with how awful your boss is or how wonderful you are it is the nature of the corporate (and because I know all to well, Academic) beast. 

45 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

This episode also made me eagerly look forward to the day they cast someone for Maggie who will look at her like she's the sun and the moon, and be happy and proud to be with her. I feel badly for her, but I want more for her than Riggs. Don't chase after someone who won't love you back, Maggie -- you deserve better!

I can't say enough about how good this season was -- how the writers and the actors took on the seemingly near impossible task of a post-McDreamy universe and got it so right. The grieving, the memories, the moving on. The stories were mostly good, heartfelt and interesting. Minority opinion, but I loved that they redeemed Penny. I loved that Meredith and Amelia found peace in the end. I love that Meredith is looking forward to life again.

I agree with your hope for Maggie.  I hope she gets a real good romance worthy of her. 

I am also not a Penny hater, per se, but I don't think he show did the character any favors.  I almost wish she had remained a bit of a screw up who learned & grew as the season went on (no Callie romance) instead the the wondergirl they made her.  I think if the show had made the fans want to like her instead of kinda forcing her on us as this perfect person (in a horrible romance with Callie) then her reception would have been better.  Oh well. I am not at all invested in her so I am not sad that she is gone.

And finally I would grade this season overall as a positive as well.  Before this season started I binged Netflix over the summer of all the old seasons and comparatively this was pretty high on a sheer "enjoyable to watch" scale.

[GreysFan89]

3 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I think it was definitely Meredith.  I hate the idea of the triangle, but you know what I would love?  I would love it is this show actually surprises me next year and 1) Megan is really, truly dead and 2) it turns out that Riggs can;t deal with Mer's brand of drama and finds out that he actually likes Maggie instead.

So many years later and this backstage drama b/t IW, TRK and KH is still a defining element of this show.  At the time I sopped it up with a biscutim because, hey I love backstage gossip.  But years later, I have come to actually believe that Shonda has a right to be however much a boss that she has to be to keep the trains running on time on her show.  IIRC reports after the fact seemed to indicate that ABC had the situation pretty much handled in house and behind the scenes quietly, but apparently somebody didn't think that was enough so the story got leaked. 

No matter who you like or what you feel, doing something that causes negative attention to your boss or your company is not a good idea.  it almost feels like whoever leaked the story was trying to force her and ABC's hand.  Now remember she was the only black female showrunner on a major network at the time and the pressure of that had to be enormous.  The whole "have to work twice as hard to get half as much' is not a myth.  You can imagine that backstage implosions that reflected badly on ABC would have had much bigger repercussions on her than a white male showrunner.  She couldn't afford to lose control of her people like that.  Back then this had no resonance for me.  Now I am a bit more woke, so I get it now.  So yeah, in hindsight I have no problem with her bringing the hammer and taking no shit.  Even outside of Hollywood and amongst us regular poors, if you get into a dispute with your boss (unless it has a legal basis) you are gonna lose all the time.  No matter how righteous your position you are going to lose.  And it has nothing to do with how awful your boss is or how wonderful you are it is the nature of the corporate (and because I know all to well, Academic) beast.

Yes!, this, you just know that if Shonda had been a white male no one would be saying 'she's such a diva' 'a control freak' etc

[Gusto]

I've heard yesterday that SaRa's leaving Grey's and had to do some quick catching up with this past season in order to understand things better. And, honestly, I don't think I do...

Let me just start this by saying that I'm shocked, heartbroken...and majorly, majorly pissed!  Ten years on this show and THAT was her last season? her LAST episode and her LAST scene ever?! One whole minute of screen-time? And that was the best thing they could come up with?!!!! smh

We've known this character for ten years, watched her grow into this warm, kind, big-hearted, smart, vulnerable, loving person that she is; a good friend, an excellent doctor, a wonderful mother...And now at the very end they are telling me that she's not really any of those things. They make her say and do things, that I know in my heart that Callie of past seasons would never, ever do. And that just breaks my heart. So shame on you Shonda and Co. for doing this! Shame on you for treating her the way you did these last few episodes. Sara deserved better than that. She's such a gifted, charismatic artist who gave her all to this character and to this show. She was the one who made Callie so lovable and relatable. And this is how you repay her? Completely disrespecting her and her character, and her fans for that matter. We all deserved better than this. You know what, to hell with you all! (yeah, I'm THAT pissed!)

Man, this show...even when I'm not watching it manages to get under my skin.

Honestly Callie was my favorite and I've always had a huge respect for Sara and her work. I wish her well and I'm sure that whatever she does next it will be better than wasting her time and talent on this crappy show. (that wasn't crappy once upon a time, I concur...but it definitely overstayed it's welcome imo) So thank you Sara for portraying Callie so beautifully and for giving us so many wonderful, unforgettable moments in the last ten years. You're a true champ.

Thinking about it though, there must've been some shady developments behind the scenes. They can deny it all they want but there's not really any other explanation for treating Callie's sl so callously and not giving Sara a proper ending on the show. She should have had the same treatment that Sandra Oh got when she was leaving. Not this underwhelming crap. Like Jon Snow, I know nothing of course, but I can tell when something stinks. And this does.

Just compare this situation with

Spoiler

Michael Weatherly exit sl on NCIS

 Talk about a proper send off of a fan favorite. That sl was done with so much care and respect to the character, to the actor, to fans. It felt right, earned. And it softened the blow a little (except for that one thing but that's a complete other story) But obviously it would be too much to ask of Shonda and her lazy writing team to put as much effort as was put in creating

Spoiler

Tony's farewell sl.

They just don't get it, and never really did.

Anyway, sorry to all for the long rant. I guess I just needed to get this off my chest. I'm off now.

Goodbye Callie. You shall remain one of my all time favorite tv characters. It's been a great ride! #WalkTallTorres

[GreysFan89]

11 minutes ago, Gusto said:

I've heard yesterday that SaRa's leaving Grey's and had to do some quick catching up with this past season in order to understand things better. And, honestly, I don't think I do...

Let me just start this by saying that I'm shocked, heartbroken...and majorly, majorly pissed!  Ten years on this show and THAT was her last season? her LAST episode and her LAST scene ever?! One whole minute of screen-time? And that was the best thing they could come up with?!!!! smh

We've known this character for ten years, watched her grow into this warm, kind, big-hearted, smart, vulnerable, loving person that she is; a good friend, an excellent doctor, a wonderful mother...And now at the very end they are telling me that she's not really any of those things. They make her say and do things, that I know in my heart that Callie of past seasons would never, ever do. And that just breaks my heart. So shame on you Shonda and Co. for doing this! Shame on you for treating her the way you did these last few episodes. Sara deserved better than that. She's such a gifted, charismatic artist who gave her all to this character and to this show. She was the one who made Callie so lovable and relatable. And this is how you repay her? Completely disrespecting her and her character, and her fans for that matter. We all deserved better than this. You know what, to hell with you all! (yeah, I'm THAT pissed!)

Man, this show...even when I'm not watching it manages to get under my skin.

Honestly Callie was my favorite and I've always had a huge respect for Sara and her work. I wish her well and I'm sure that whatever she does next it will be better than wasting her time and talent on this crappy show. (that wasn't crappy once upon a time, I concur...but it definitely overstayed it's welcome imo) So thank you Sara for portraying Callie so beautifully and for giving us so many wonderful, unforgettable moments in the last ten years. You're a true champ.

Thinking about it though, there must've been some shady developments behind the scenes. They can deny it all they want but there's not really any other explanation for treating Callie's sl so callously and not giving Sara a proper ending on the show. She should have had the same treatment that Sandra Oh got when she was leaving. Not this underwhelming crap. Like Jon Snow, I know nothing of course, but I can tell when something stinks. And this does.

Just compare this situation with

  Reveal hidden contents

Michael Weatherly exit sl on NCIS

 Talk about a proper send off of a fan favorite. That sl was done with so much care and respect to the character, to the actor, to fans. It felt right, earned. And it softened the blow a little (except for that one thing but that's a complete other story) But obviously it would be too much to ask of Shonda and her lazy writing team to put as much effort as was put in creating

  Reveal hidden contents

Tony's farewell sl.

They just don't get it, and never really did.

Anyway, sorry to all for the long rant. I guess I just needed to get this off my chest. I'm off now.

Goodbye Callie. You shall remain one of my all time favorite tv characters. It's been a great ride! #WalkTallTorres

Tbh I think that SaRa may be struggling with depression or something - I hope not but the odd circumstance surrounding her exit has me wondering. I really really hope not cause that is just awful, I hope she is just looking for a Broadway gig..

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

It's confusing because the timeline is so wonky, but didn't Amelia relapse way before April even got pregnant?  Which would make it longer than a year since Amelia's relapse.  Yet she told her mother she had gotten involved with Owen a year ago.  So whatever (I think this is what the writers say in the writer's room).  It's not like there aren't websites dedicated to exactly when things happened.  Google is your friend, writers.

I don't think Amelia relapsed before April got pregnant. She relapsed before April found out she was pregnant and was still drinking after Meredith got attacked when the show came back.

We saw Amelia drink in the mid-season finale. That was after Jackson and April had hooked up when they were supposed to be talking about getting divorced. The timing just seems off because we had that April/Jackson centric episode where they flash backed to when April got pregnant. I think they were really close together though. But it's hard to tell with Grey's weird time line.

[rose321]

13 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I couldn't help but feel for whoever had to clean up Meredith's kitchen.  I would have looked like a multiple homicide occurred.  And when I saw Ben pull out a used filthy scalpel, I thought - who would keep such a thing.  Then I realized the answer - a surgeon with Alzheimer's.  And as to medical bags, they are archaic.  I actually wondered where the found the prop for Ellis's old bag.

I thought the bloody scalpel was from when Ellis cut herself (the scene we always see in flashbacks).

Edited May 22, 2016 by rose321

[arilliope]

13 hours ago, windsprints said:

 Or Cristina loving both Burke and Owen, Izzie loving both Denny and Alex, Alex loving both Izzie and Jo, Richard loving Adele, Ellis and Catherine. Guess Meredith didn't put much thought into it.

and... there's also Callie loving Arizona and Penny.....

[lorbeer]

4 minutes ago, rose321 said:

Could the scalpel be the one Ellis used to cut herself (in all the flashbacks)?

I guess it could but why would she keep it? And why Meredith would keep it?

Just now, arilliope said:

and... there's also Callie loving Arizona and Penny.....

But there's only Richard Webber who actually got marry twice. For me Cristina and Burke was mismatch. Callie and Penny are not finished story, we don't know if she's really Callie's true love. Callie and Arizona are not true love for me, they didn't got through rough time. So is not Addison and Derek or Bailey and her first husband. They weren't each others true loves. With Cristina and Owen is a little bit different story because they had very different goals and desires in their lifes. It's actually tragic because they loved each other so much they had to let each other go so they could be finally happy. But of course everybody has their own definition of true love.

 

Does anybody know title of the song who started when April and Ben finally got to the hospital?

[arilliope]

1 hour ago, lorbeer said:

I guess it could but why would she keep it? And why Meredith would keep it?

But there's only Richard Webber who actually got marry twice. For me Cristina and Burke was mismatch. Callie and Penny are not finished story, we don't know if she's really Callie's true love. Callie and Arizona are not true love for me, they didn't got through rough time. So is not Addison and Derek or Bailey and her first husband. They weren't each others true loves. With Cristina and Owen is a little bit different story because they had very different goals and desires in their lifes. It's actually tragic because they loved each other so much they had to let each other go so they could be finally happy. But of course everybody has their own definition of true love.

 

Does anybody know title of the song who started when April and Ben finally got to the hospital?

Regarding the bolded point- I'm sorry what?? their whole relationship has been littered by rough times. They spent 2 whole seasons (9 & 10) going through a rough time. As for Callie and Penny, as much as I find them to be a really really bad joke, the fact that Callie wanted to uproot her child's life, get a demotion, and hurt her former-love-of-her-life ex-wife in the process, to leave to be with Penny shows that Callie considers Penny as her second shot at true love.

Edit: the song you're after is “River of Tears” by Alessia Cara :)

Edited May 22, 2016 by arilliope

[Catznip]

15 hours ago, GreysFan89 said:

Tbh I think that SaRa may be struggling with depression or something - I hope not but the odd circumstance surrounding her exit has me wondering. I really really hope not cause that is just awful, I hope she is just looking for a Broadway gig..

I also think SR is dealing with something personal.  Her face  looked really different during s12. I couldn't figure out if it was related to  the makeup, weight gain, or something else. Also she wore a ponytail almost the entire season which looks to be a hair piece, perhaps she cut her and when I seen her  public appearances she's wearing a hat. Whatever is going on with her, I wish her well. 

[lorbeer]

2 hours ago, arilliope said:

Regarding the bolded point- I'm sorry what?? their whole relationship has been littered by rough times. They spent 2 whole seasons (9 & 10) going through a rough time. As for Callie and Penny, as much as I find them to be a really really bad joke, the fact that Callie wanted to uproot her child's life, get a demotion, and hurt her former-love-of-her-life ex-wife in the process, to leave to be with Penny shows that Callie considers Penny as her second shot at true love.

Edit: the song you're after is “River of Tears” by Alessia Cara :)

But they didn't pass, did they? :P For me they were great romance but it the end they were making each other miserable instead of happy. Maybe it would be different if Mark was still alive. And as you said yourself - Callie considers Penny her true love but giving the fact that Callie is really desperate to find someone to be in reliationship with - I don't take it seriously. Perhaps Penny is her true love, but it's not a "closed deal", that's why I think it's not a good example. And if I were Meredith I also couldn't find better example than Webber. That's my point of view. :) I know lot of people love Callie and Callzona but for me she's neutral.

Thanks for the song! :)

Edited May 22, 2016 by lorbeer

[kingshearte]

20 hours ago, NathanRiggsfan said:

How on earth did Riggs cheat on Megan (and it was implied it did not happen once)  is beyond logic to me.

Are we absolutely positive that he did? I know that Owen thinks he did because Megan thought he did, but has he ever confirmed that? Is it possible that it was some kind of misunderstanding, or some other, more complicated situation than just "Riggs is a cheating asshole"? I'm sure someone who watches details more closely than I often do has a better recollection of any conversations surrounding this topic.

And I will also agree that, although I'm no big Callie fan, her tenure on this show really did earn her a better exit than that. I don't really want to see her back, but there is a part of me that hopes she will come back for a proper send-off.

[Nobodysfan]

29 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

Are we absolutely positive that he did? I know that Owen thinks he did because Megan thought he did, but has he ever confirmed that? Is it possible that it was some kind of misunderstanding, or some other, more complicated situation than just "Riggs is a cheating asshole"? I'm sure someone who watches details more closely than I often do has a better recollection of any conversations surrounding this topic.

 

Yes, he cheated on her, he confirmed it to Maggie when she asked. I´d rather he had a different flaw than being a cheating asshole who he is. 

But who doesn´t cheat on Greys?

Edited May 22, 2016 by NathanRiggsfan

[DearEvette]

22 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

And I will also agree that, although I'm no big Callie fan, her tenure on this show really did earn her a better exit than that. I don't really want to see her back, but there is a part of me that hopes she will come back for a proper send-off.

I am beginning to wonder if they simply had no time to write anything more.  SR first tweeted a "that's a wrap" tweet about Torres on April 27th.  That was the first people had an inkling she might not be coming back.  That is when it was reported that her contract was up in June along with a bunch of other people.  I am wondering if  the Preminger grant/custody case storyline was a way for the show to hedge their bets.  if she was in the middle of contract negotiations it could go either way and the show had to go on  They couldn't definitely write her off if she was coming back and they couldn't write her story in such a way that fans would be expecting something for S13 if she chose not to renew.

I figure that Arizona winning custody was the "Sara stays" storyline.  And when she didn't re-up, they had to quickly write her out.  The finale didn't wrap til May 5th.  Their finale table read was April 21st.  So I'll bet Sara's negotiations fell through sometime right before that last table read, since her tweet was only a week later.  It was likely too late to do a re-write with some huge big send off thing and they already had so many other things going on in the last episode. 

Also makes me wonder about Samatha Sloyan.  Was Penny always going to be written out no matter what and it dovetailed nicely with Sara leaving?  Or would she have come back if Sara stayed?

[Joana]

I don't think Penny was at any point meant to stay beyond this season. Her purpose was to create drama for/between Meredith and Amelia, and to provide an exit for Callie in case Sara Ramirez decided to leave the show. I assume they were aware of the possibility well in advance. 

And since switching hospitals yet again for whatever reason wouldn't make sense for Penny, they had to come up with this fellowship grant that somehow magically transformed into a permanent move to NY. Basically it was a very weak premise and the lack of on-screen chemistry between Callie and Penny certainly didn't help, so the final outcome couldn't have been any good.

I do think something happened in the meantime that messed up the storyline even further. If it had been known that Sara was definitely leaving before the penultimate episode was made, she would have probably ended things with Penny on an at least somewhat positive note instead of treating like her crap, breaking up without even looking at her face and blaming her for losing Sofia. That way it certainly looked like Sara was staying. 

Edited May 22, 2016 by Joana

[Catznip]

How complicated can contact negotiations be? I meant it's not like SR requested to be paid more than EP! Perhaps she requested less of a story line so she can take on other projects like Broadway. And why wouldn't  they grant the request? Like someone else posted earlier it may be something else. 

Edited to add:

just saw Shonda on Periscope  she had this to say, "I had always planned the storyline that ended with them getting back together.' And that SR wanted to take a break   She's hopeful that SR will return keeping her fingers crossed  

Edited May 22, 2016 by Catznip

[Nobodysfan]

On 20. 5. 2016 at 5:36 AM, Madding crowd said:

I guess Meredith was a little better, but I just don't like her anymore. Riggs would be better off with Maggie but she probably isn't dark and twisty enough.

I think the same.

If any of these two women I would vote for Maggie  to be with Riggs. There was some build-up,they have natural chemistry,they shared som nice scenes, she was really trying to understand him,not having hissy fits like Meredith and jumping at him because she wanted some sex. 

He also seems very nice to her.  

Maggie sort of jumped Deluca but I think she fell for him until he could not handle her being superior. I think Nathan has no problems with her being his boss.

Edited May 22, 2016 by NathanRiggsfan

[RedheadZombie]

9 hours ago, lorbeer said:

I guess it could but why would she keep it? And why Meredith would keep it?

In an odd way, I could see Meredith saving the scalpel from that moment in her childhood that so traumatized her.  It's kind of a dark and twisted thing to do.  But to leave this bag somewhere that Ben could find in thirty seconds of searching.  And after moving back into this house.  And where any of the children could easily find it.  It was silly. 

[RedheadZombie]

4 hours ago, lorbeer said:

But they didn't pass, did they? :P For me they were great romance but it the end they were making each other miserable instead of happy. Maybe it would be different if Mark was still alive. And as you said yourself - Callie considers Penny her true love but giving the fact that Callie is really desperate to find someone to be in reliationship with - I don't take it seriously. Perhaps Penny is her true love, but it's not a "closed deal", that's why I think it's not a good example. And if I were Meredith I also couldn't find better example than Webber. That's my point of view. :) I know lot of people love Callie and Callzona but for me she's neutral.

Thanks for the song! :)

I think everyone has their own version of true love.  On this show apparently, one partner has to die. 

I'm sort of creeped out if Richard considers Ellis his true love.  She was so manipulative and such a horrible neglectful mother.  Add in she had his child, withheld the truth, and gave the baby up so Richard could never find it ...... just more manipulation and cruelty, IMO.

[GreysFan89]

LOL, Of all the illogical shit to happen on this show Riggs cheating on his wife does not come anywhere close. Ha.

[lorbeer]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

I think everyone has their own version of true love.  On this show apparently, one partner has to die. 

I'm sort of creeped out if Richard considers Ellis his true love.  She was so manipulative and such a horrible neglectful mother.  Add in she had his child, withheld the truth, and gave the baby up so Richard could never find it ...... just more manipulation and cruelty, IMO.

I don't consider Ellis his true love. Sure he loved her but not enough to give up his life with Adele. So Arizona and Callie loved or love each other, or more they care about each other. But Ellis was not "the one" for Richard. On the other hand Richard was "the one" for Ellis's - in Ellis eyes of course. It's kind of messy. ;d

Edited May 22, 2016 by lorbeer

[Chewy101]

9 hours ago, lorbeer said:

9 hours ago, rose321 said:

Could the scalpel be the one Ellis used to cut herself (in all the flashbacks)?

I guess it could but why would she keep it? And why Meredith would keep it?

Same reason she carried her mother's ashes around for weeks, trying to figure out what to do with them. She was very unresolved about her mom and she has always been a bit macabre (claiming many times that all surgeons are). Dark and twisty and all that.

54 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I'm sort of creeped out if Richard considers Ellis his true love.  She was so manipulative and such a horrible neglectful mother.  Add in she had his child, withheld the truth, and gave the baby up so Richard could never find it ...... just more manipulation and cruelty, IMO.

Well, Richard has admitted he was pretty terrible back then as well. He cheated on his wife, he knew Meredith was suffering neglected and he did nothing. Then he left Ellis to save his marriage. So I am guessing if he knew about their love child he would have looked the other way for all of the same reasons. He didn't really face who he was back then until getting through AA.

[Nobodysfan]

On 20. 5. 2016 at 3:05 AM, Chicken Wing said:

 

Explain how Mer, Maggie and Amelia got their hair and dresses looking perfect again after traipsing around in the rain.

I thought the same, they were all stylish and chic and dry and glamorous again if by miracle after being soaking wet.

Edited May 22, 2016 by NathanRiggsfan

[represent]

Quote

 

I don't consider Ellis his true love. Sure he loved her but not enough to give up his life with Adele. 

 

 

 

 

Richard's true love was himself IMO.

He was a coward. I don't call it love when you stay with your "mommy" because she's safe. I felt sorry for Adele, but then I didn't because if she wanted to settle then that was on her. She didn't see it as settling, but I do.  She had a career as a nurse, and it's unfortunate that she felt she had to settle for a man who was NOT passionate in his "love" for her. He loved her because she was kind and motherly, give me a break. Yet that clearly wasn't enough to make him light up when she walked into a room. Shonda irks me with these love stories, which aren't love stories to me  because someone is second best. I can't stand triangles especially ones with women. I know they are realistic, but I loathe seeing women fight over men and men fighting over and for women isn't shown nearly enough. I wasn't the least bit intrigued by Ellis and Richard because another woman was seen as second best in Adele.

I was intrigued by Ellis minus Richard and how cut throat and brilliant she was and had to be in those days. That's what was awesome about her, she was dynamic all by herself.

Edited May 22, 2016 by represent

[RedheadZombie]

I don't praise Bailey much, but I love how emotional she becomes when one of her "kids" is in danger.  From answering her phone to her reactions throughout the C-section, she was the Bailey I used to like.  I've also always liked how vulnerable she is to Richard.  She will always see him as her mentor and desire his approval.

From the moment that Ben noticed the baby had no pulse, to the moment he actually did the cutting, I think the baby would have been dead.  I'm sure he simply didn't palpate a pulse point.  Regardless, they thought the baby was actively dying.  Yet they wasted at least ten to fifteen minutes - minimum.  I was yelling at the TV - the baby's dying, hurry it up!  Time is brain!

I realize Ben had to be redeemed, otherwise there was nowhere to go with the character.  But it was just too on the nose for both surgeries to be C-sections.  But since that's where they went, I would at least expect Ben to go in knowing the last time he did this the mother and baby died.  I didn't get that sense at all.  And while he didn't really want to do the C-section, I didn't get the impression (which I would have expected) that he feared he would lose the mother/child again.  No sense of him re-living what surely traumatized him previously.  And perhaps that's why I'm always lukewarm on Ben.  He's all arrogance and entitlement.  No self-doubt, no insecurities, no self-reflection.

[Starscream]

11 hours ago, arilliope said:

and... there's also Callie loving Arizona and Penny.....

I feel like Callie considers whoever she's with to be her greatest love.  George wasn't exactly a footnote in her love life.  She really loved him.

Heck, Mark might qualify even though they were never in a relationship.  They were soulmates in the same way Meredith and Cristina are -- with sex benefits.

[KaveDweller]

Regarding the one love thing - isn't the argument really whether you believe in the idea of one great "true love." If you believe in the idea of soulmates and one person, than you can't believe that a person has multiple loves. It goes against the idea of a soulmate.  If you think the idea of soulmates is flawed, than you have to believe that a person can have multiple loves. But I don't think you can believe in having two "true loves." It's either or. 

Edited May 22, 2016 by KaveDweller

[Joana]

19 minutes ago, Starscream said:

I feel like Callie considers whoever she's with to be her greatest love.  George wasn't exactly a footnote in her love life.  She really loved him.

I think he's been relegated to "LOL, can you believe Callie was once married to a guy!" status in the eyes of the show. It's really annoying how disrespectful they can be to the former characters. Like Meredith pretending she didn't know who Alex was referring to as his great love. I mean, I don't think he and Izzie were destined to be together either, but she was a huge deal to him. And going back to Callie, uhm, Erica Hahn? OK, they didn't last long enough for her to count as a huge love story, but she was kinda important for Callie, for all sorts of reasons, and she's totally the show's dirty little secret.

And don't get me started on how everyone pretends Meredith never had a sister before Maggie (and Amelia). 

[lorbeer]

4 minutes ago, Joana said:

And don't get me started on how everyone pretends Meredith never had a sister before Maggie (and Amelia). 

I hate that! Lexie was great and she was a huge deal for Meredith in all family stuff. And now they never mention her again. They mention Mark but forget about Lexie.

[Greysaddict]

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I am beginning to wonder if they simply had no time to write anything more.  SR first tweeted a "that's a wrap" tweet about Torres on April 27th.  That was the first people had an inkling she might not be coming back.  That is when it was reported that her contract was up in June along with a bunch of other people.  I am wondering if  the Preminger grant/custody case storyline was a way for the show to hedge their bets.  if she was in the middle of contract negotiations it could go either way and the show had to go on  They couldn't definitely write her off if she was coming back and they couldn't write her story in such a way that fans would be expecting something for S13 if she chose not to renew.

I figure that Arizona winning custody was the "Sara stays" storyline.  And when she didn't re-up, they had to quickly write her out.  The finale didn't wrap til May 5th.  Their finale table read was April 21st.  So I'll bet Sara's negotiations fell through sometime right before that last table read, since her tweet was only a week later.  It was likely too late to do a re-write with some huge big send off thing and they already had so many other things going on in the last episode. 

Also makes me wonder about Samatha Sloyan.  Was Penny always going to be written out no matter what and it dovetailed nicely with Sara leaving?  Or would she have come back if Sara stayed?

I posted some stuff in the media thread on this topic, but I just wanted to point out its been known for basically 2 years that the originals + Sara's contracts were up at the end of this year.  It sounds like maybe Sara had intended to re-up but something happened where she changed her mind at the last minute.

I think Penny was always supposed to exit at the end of this season regardless of Sara's contract negotiations.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Greysaddict

[Joana]

There must have been at least some uncertainty regarding her status for the next season, otherwise I really don't see why Penny would be given so much prominence. It's entirely possible she first decided to stay and then changed her mind at the last moment, hence the nonsense in the season finale, but I don't think it came out of nowhere. 

Edited May 22, 2016 by Joana

[windsprints]

Quote

Regarding the one love thing - isn't the argument really whether you believe in the idea of one great "true love." If you believe in the idea of soulmates and one person, than you can't believe that a person has multiple loves. It goes against the idea of a soulmate.  If you think the idea of soulmates is flawed, than you have to believe that a person can have multiple loves.

Meredith believed Cristina to be her soulmate (I'm pretty sure she has said this on the show) and she loved Derek. Applying what you said above then Meredith should believe a person can have multiple loves. 

[dr pepper]

And now, i'm out. Shonda may continue to torture Calli, or send her away. She can keep screwing with Miranda's personality and relationships or move on to someone else. I don't care, i'm not enabling her anymore.

[Chewy101]

7 hours ago, windsprints said:

Meredith believed Cristina to be her soulmate (I'm pretty sure she has said this on the show) and she loved Derek. Applying what you said above then Meredith should believe a person can have multiple loves

Her line (after the hospital shooting and when Kristina was about to marry Owen) was, "Derek is the love of my life, but you're my soulmate." None of these idiots have proven to respect the terminologies they use, but they are a dramatic infectious bunch. Sucked me in for a decade.

[kingshearte]

I'm one who thinks that the idea of one soulmate in the whole world for each person is basically ridiculous (although I'm usually prepared to accept it in fiction), but putting that aside, I actually kind of like the idea that a soulmate doesn't necessarily have to be tied up with a romantic love. I have no problem with the distinction between "soulmate" and "love of my life."