S04.E19: Canary Cry

[apinknightmare]

38 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Tommy was awesome and brave and loved Laurel. She just didn't give a flying fart about him after all. Which hey, you're not required to love someone back, but then maybe don't enter into a serious relationship with him?

Tommy's main function on this show was to basically be a human toilet. For Malcolm, then Oliver and Laurel, and then Oliver and Laurel again. I wish him happiness in his hopefully window-free plane of existence. 

[tarotx]

What? I accidentally hit quote, then I tried to delete it and then got frustrated. And now it has what I wanted to say as a angel12D quote? I need some board reeducation-obviously >.<

[wonderwall]

12 minutes ago, Hook75 said:

STFU Felicity. 

LOL what did Felicity even say that was so terrible? :p

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

That wasn't a great love. That was a perfect example of a couple of assholes.

Doesn't this kind of reflect the comics relationship where Oliver cheated on her all the time and she took him back? I don't read the comics but that's what I understand. 

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Tommy's main function on this show was to basically be a human toilet. For Malcolm, then Oliver and Laurel, and then Oliver and Laurel again. I wish him happiness in his hopefully window-free plane of existence. 

Honestly at this point, I would be on board with Zombie!Tommy coming back for vengeance.

[benteen]

Quote

5. Wow, the difference between the number of attendees at Tommy's funeral versus Laurel's was….pretty stark. Especially given that Tommy's funeral presumably happened just a few days after a significant section of the city was destroyed, which presumably would have kept a few people busy. I'd let this go except for one factor: given that Oliver specifically wanted everyone to know Laurel's identity, why didn't he make sure that more people – and in particular, the reporters – were there? I realize the camera wanted to frame Quentin and Donna without people behind them, but they had room on the side and the extras were presumably still milling around, so, odd.

Heheh.  Man, it's just constant reminders of how Laurel seemed to be viewed by everyone.  It's just kind of sad when you think about it.

[calliope1975]

23 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

They showed him in the seaplane! Which he presumably bought, bc his ass was NOT waiting for a commercial flight. (He could have flown commercial to China and then bought the seaplane, but my version is funnier.)

I know I shouldn't think about logic with this show but...how did Team Arrow get home after convincing Oliver to return from Lian Yu? I don't think Digg or Felicity knew he could fly a plane until the end of S2, right? So, he left his plane on this "deserted" island for about a year? 

[Carrie Ann]

Pretty bad episode. The only redeeming things for me were the D/F scene, and the first O/F scene. But everything else was a mess. If I knew for sure that Baby Canary was a one-off (or maybe two- or three-off) character, I would find her inoffensive and even kinda interesting as a tie-up for a couple of narrative loose threads. But the fear I feel that they might add a Scrappy Doo down the line put a damper on that. Also the actress reminded me of Chloe Grace Moretz in Kick-Ass, and that's a big No for me.

What is left to be said about the flashbacks, but Good Lord, why. WHY. Y.

When combined with the awful, no-good, very bad decision to have Laurel proclaim her endless love for Oliver on her deathbed, they made the last two episodes about her basically unrequited love for Oliver, while they've spent the last two, almost three, seasons running as far away from that as possible. Why? Why re-write your own canon in order to make them both seem so much worse, and their relationship even more toxic and pathetic than it already did? What purpose does any of this serve?

We already know that Oliver has grown past the guy who couldn't sit with his own guilt/grief, who would abandon ship when he got discouraged. Juxtaposing Tommy's retconned funeral and aftermath with Laurel's tells me nothing new about Oliver except that he was an even shittier friend than I already thought. It tells me all sorts of new things about Laurel though, and their gross-ass relationship, and none of them are good.

(Also, never leave me again, PTV. *hugs Arrow forum tight*)

Edited April 28, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[ohjoy]

_____________________________________________________________
After final "flashback" scene, fade back to hospital scene with Oliver at Laurel's beside.
LAUREL: So you see, Ollie, I had this crazy dream coming out of surgery just now, that you didn't leave immediately after Tommy's funeral, but instead stayed with me for a week before you realized you had to get away, and it made me realize that even as much as I loved you we were never going to work out, and nothing I could have done would change that. So I don't feel guilty anymore. And whatever happens, I don't want you to feel guilty either. That's what I want you to promise me."
_____________________________________________________________

There. I fixed it.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, tarotx said:

What? I accidentally hit quote, then I tried to delete it and then got frustrated. And now it has what I wanted to say as a angel12D quote? I need some board reeducation-obviously >.<

Haha I thought that was weird. 

PS: I hate the new update too. :)

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I know I shouldn't think about logic with this show but...how did Team Arrow get home after convincing Oliver to return from Lian Yu? I don't think Digg or Felicity knew he could fly a plane until the end of S2, right? So, he left his plane on this "deserted" island for about a year? 

I'm going to assume that for whatever reason, Digg flew. And maybe they assumed someone else flew Oliver there and then, like, scuba'd back to the mainland?

Oh wait, here we go: after D/F parachuted in, they had a planned rendezvous with a ship to pick them all up. So the seaplane just sat in a cove in Lian Yu for all of S2. Then they had an ARGUS boat or plane take them and a tranqed Slade to the island, and that's when Oliver told them about the seaplane.

[nksarmi]

Actually last week's episode of Legends told us that Rip has short-term amnesia pills. Now when something doesn't make sense, I think we should just assume that a Time Lord was involved and dosed someone with a forget pill.

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I know I shouldn't think about logic with this show but...how did Team Arrow get home after convincing Oliver to return from Lian Yu? I don't think Digg or Felicity knew he could fly a plane until the end of S2, right? So, he left his plane on this "deserted" island for about a year? 

Wait, was Oliver actually flying the plane? Or was he a passenger and was going to parachute out?

[Guest]

Just now, nksarmi said:

Actually last week's episode of Legends told us that Rip has short-term amnesia pills. Now when something doesn't make sense, I think we should just assume that a Time Lord was involved and dosed someone with a forget pill.

How do I go about getting some of those pills? I'd like to forget I ever saw those O/L flashbacks. 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

How do I go about getting some of those pills? I'd like to forget I ever saw those O/L flashbacks. 

 

[Guest]

@apinknightmare. Yeah, that will do for now. :)

[calliope1975]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

How do I go about getting some of those pills? I'd like to forget I ever saw those O/L flashbacks. 

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Wait, was Oliver actually flying the plane? Or was he a passenger and was going to parachute out?

Good point. I assumed he was flying because it looked like the sea plane at the end of S2, but I'm not sure. Again, I know I shouldn't even try to make sense of this show.

[arjumand]

Finally remembered another thing which bothered me, besides the whole: Extry extry, read all about it! Assistant District Attorney had Secret Life as Masked Vigilante! All 5 cases she won will now be overturned!

Sorry, but LL was a terrible lawyer, so I don't think it'll be as great a problem as I thought it was going to be.

No, my real problem is with the flashbacks - no, not that they're dull. And in this case, retcon city, No, my question is, who is having these fricking flashbacks? I've had this problem before, in the episode where Moira dies. I always understood that these were Oliver's flashbacks. But in that season 2 episode, they seemed to be Moira's. Ok. Fine. Whatever.

But now we get another ambiguous flashback, but they can't be Laurel's because Laurel's dead ("She's dead, Dave.")

Except how can it be Oliver's flashback, when we're seeing Laurel, on her own in her apartment (having apparently photographed her own memorial statue at some point), doing stuff which Oliver could not have known, cos he was halfway to China at that point? Was he imagining it? He has a very vivid imagination ("Dig if you will the picture, of you and me engaged in a- in an incredibly awkward break-up. At least it doesn't involve boats sinking and kid sisters this time"). He's also really conceited - "So she reads the letter, and she cries and cries and cries. Yes, of course."

Oh lord. Then we have the repurposed limo scene, and he starts going on about darkness this and darkness that, and if I were writing Felicity, she'd definitely be thinking (and saying out loud, 'cos that's our girl) "You'd better not be spelling 'darkness' with an 'h', Oliver. That's just wrong."

I don't know why, but this episode left me fairly unmoved. I didn't even cry for Laurel, and I'm a weeper. I'm probably in the minority, but I found Teen Canary to be pointless and I don't want to see her again. Which probably means she'll be in the team next season. Ugh.

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Good point. I assumed he was flying because it looked like the sea plane at the end of S2, but I'm not sure. Again, I know I shouldn't even try to make sense of this show.

It was a seaplane. Those land/take off in water.

LOVE the gif.

5 minutes ago, arjumand said:

He's also really conceited - "So she reads the letter, and she cries and cries and cries. Yes, of course."

I'm dying laughing here. SO ACCURATE.

[wonderwall]

I read an another point of view about the flashbacks and how it wasn't really a retcon...

Apparently the scene shows how Oliver abandoned LL in her time of need. Instead of mourning together, Oliver left her which is why she ended up thinking that sleeping with him was a mistake, and because she had no support system after Tommy died (because Oliver left) Laurel started to spiral...And this further emphasises how people always leave Laurel (remember that infamous line she said in S2).

Just being the devil's advocate here :)

[AyChihuahua]

Factually speaking, it was a retcon from the official comics, which showed Oliver giving the eulogy. Re the emotional stuff, I agree it's debatable. Mostly it just makes me think Laurel is absolute garbage. Not even bc of the potential sexing, exactly, bc I am fine with grief sex (although problematic here for very very obvious reason). I am, however, UTTERLY HORRIFED that she was all smiley and looking forward to her future, heavily implied with Oliver, ONE WEEK after Tommy died saving her life. Hell, if it was some rando stranger who died saving her I'd expect her to be more upset ONE WEEK after.

Just a garbage person.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I read an another point of view about the flashbacks and how it wasn't really a retcon...

Apparently the scene shows how Oliver abandoned LL in her time of need. Instead of mourning together, Oliver left her which is why she ended up thinking that sleeping with him was a mistake, and because she had no support system after Tommy died (because Oliver left) Laurel started to spiral...And this further emphasises how people always leave Laurel (remember that infamous line she said in S2).

Just being the devil's advocate here :)

I can buy that kinda except for the fact that it didn't look like she was in mourning in that scene. She was so happy and smiley and dreamy about their future. She might as well have worn a party hat that she was glad Tommy wasn't in the way and she could move on with Oliver guilt free. I just do not understand that scene and never will. Fanwank will not save it for me.

[TVHappy9463]

Paul Blackthorne is life! EBR was fantastic, she was still very icy with Oliver. And her comment to Diggle about being one illegitimate child away from an Oliver Queen impersonation was terrific.    The whole thing reminded me of Dark Knight and Harvey Dent, and maybe it was supposed to.  Look I am a sucker for this show, and while I hate the flashbacks, and it was nice to see they kept their streak alive with crappy flashbacks last night, and SA's habit of not looking at the actors he is working with is annoying.  This is sitll my must see show of the week, every wednesday we do the it's Arrow day dance in my house.  I keep watching until the very bitter end. No matter how silly melodramatic it gets.  

No Donna in the preview, I hope we get to see her comfort Quentin next week.  And of course want to see the Thea/Malcolm fallout.  

[apinknightmare]

Had Oliver as himself at that point even done anything that would make her feel hopeful about them saving the city or whatever together? Wasn't he basically just running a bar at that point? And barely managing to not treat her like garbage 100% of the time?

Edited April 28, 2016 by apinknightmare

[tangerine95]

I would think it makes sense it was about her needing Oliver's support through mourning but she didn't seem to be doing that.Like she was talking about a happy future together and being excited about it.She seemed pretty past Tommy's death lol.I really don't see a way to make Laurel not look horrible here.LIke I see no way to take her behavior other than the thing she wanted most was those same delusions of a life with Oliver that she had pre island. Literally nothing was enough to make her move past that.Not Oliver sleeping with her sister, not Tommy dying while saving her life and telling her he loves her.

Edited April 28, 2016 by tangerine95

[catrox14]

Quote

SA's habit of not looking at the actors he is working with is annoying

I think it's a character choice. I think it shows that Oliver is uncomfortable with too much eye contact.

[Password]

I rolled my eyes during this entire episode.

Excuse me, I think Laurel dying is a fantastic story telling choice and no amount of guilt from the characters will change my mind. 

I also kept wondering which hero they were talking about because it surely wasn't Laurel. 

I hope Oliver doesn't die now that he said the line of doom.

I had many more thoughts but the episode was bleh so I won't type them out.

*cough* Felicity in those jeans *cough*

[looptab]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

That's what it looked like to me. The camera, instead of pulling back and showing them both together, flips between the two of them, and in a rare background CGI issue, the lighting/weather is slightly different on Felicity's side than on Oliver's side. 

I'm pretty sure that, as usual on TV shows, all of Arrow's limo scenes are CGI, by the way - the actors are sitting in a car on a soundstage with greenscreened windows, and then computer footage is inserted into the windows. Film/TV has been doing the car on a soundstage trick since at least 1922; CGI just makes it look a bit better than the old method of running film behind the car.

Thank you :) Yeah I know that's how they shoot car scenes, I just couldn't figure out what the issue with the CGI was - didn't notice the difference in weather in the two sides. Wonder why they decided to shoot iy separately.

13 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I can buy that kinda except for the fact that it didn't look like she was in mourning in that scene. She was so happy and smiley and dreamy about their future. She might as well have worn a party hat that she was glad Tommy wasn't in the way and she could move on with Oliver guilt free. I just do not understand that scene and never will. Fanwank will not save it for me.

Exactly. Had Laurel been somewhat distraught, and I'm not saying "Pulling her hair off" distraught, even a quiet shock, maybe I could buy that. But she was talking about future. Of being excited about it. That was a very unfortunate line. I guess they were going for the tragedy of her having hopes and projects and dying so young.

Another unfortunate line, that "He wasn't just a playboy, blah blah." How about you comment on him dying saving your life instead?? FFS.

Finally, they used that awesome track during the last fb, that (I think) wasn't used since S2, the Russia episode, when they come back to Starling. I love that!

[thuganomics85]

So, this is how Barry will get his powers back!  Oliver more or less telling him to piss off at the graveside will break his poor little heart so much, that he suddenly is able to run fast again, in order to zip back home and cry over how mean big bro was.  Oliver is amazing!  He first helped Felicity walk again due to infuriating her so much and now this!  He might not be the hero we all want at times, but he's apparently the hero a lot of people need!

Episode really wants us to believe Laurel is dead for good, unless their is a major swerve of some kind, but at this point it will either come off hacky or underwhelming (ex: using time-travel.)  I think she might really be gone for good.  Anyway, this episode was basically everyone blaming themselves, and going about it the way you expect.  Oliver mopes.  Diggle goes into rage mode.  Felicity holds it together, but is clearly shaken up.  Thea is.... there, I guess.  At least the actors did a good job with it, and I did like some of their interactions; especially the stuff with Diggle/Felicity.  I really love this duo.

Quentin though really did just break my heart.  Paul Blackthorne was so raw in all of his scenes.  He really felt like a man who lost his daughter and didn't know what to do without her.  Well done, Mr. Blackthorne!

Glad Nyssa popped up for a few scenes, but they seemed pretty brief and she mainly just stood around.  Kind of got the feeling Katrina Law only had a limit amount of time to shoot them.  Oh, well.  I'm not going to complain about it.  Any Nyssa/Katrina Law is good in my book!

Hi, Dinah!  Nice to know you still exist!  Now, maybe they can bring Walt back.  Hell, have the big twist be that Dinah and Walt are married!  That would be amazing.

The Baby Canary plot didn't work for me, for whatever reason.  It all leading to Oliver revealing that Laurel was the Canary also didn't exactly wow me.

At least the flashbacks didn't involve the stupid island, but they were still pretty bad.  A lot of reconning, forced chemistry, and basically making Oliver and Laurel look like jerks, because all of this was going only a week after poor Tommy bit it.  Just ill-advised, and I have no idea what the writers were thinking here.

I guess now that Laurel is buried, they will fully focus on going after Damien.  Wish I could care more, but despite this already being the 19th episode, I really have no idea what makes him tick or what his plan is.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Password said:

I hope Oliver doesn't die now that he said the line of doom.

Well, he said it in flashback and technically he died in s3 so...

[AyChihuahua]

27 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I would think it makes sense it was about her needing Oliver's support through mourning but she didn't seem to be doing that.Like she was talking about a happy future together and being excited about it.She seemed pretty past Tommy's death lol.I really don't see a way to make Laurel not look horrible here.LIke I see no way to take her behavior other than the thing she wanted most was those same delusions of a life with Oliver that she had pre island. Literally nothing was enough to make her move past that.Not Oliver sleeping with her sister, not Tommy dying while saving her life and telling her he loves her.

Remind me, who's Tommy?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Arrow Finally Puts Someone In That Grave

Everyone's very sad about Laurel, who's almost certainly dead. Probably.

[Artsda]

I didn't really like the flashbacks, found them unessecary.  The whole episode felt like filler to me.

I was really hoping that we'd never have to hear that cry again and instead they have it like 5 times this episode which was just annoying.

[Password]

9 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Remind me, who's Tommy?

Pretty sure he was the window guy.

[tangerine95]

7 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Remind me, who's Tommy?

Just some billionaire playboy who died for nothing lol Seriously the poor guy wasted his life on people who didn't really care about him, I feel so bad for Tommy after this episode and I wasn't even that much of a fan of his in season 1.

[Chaser]

I expected to feel something. I thought for sure PB would make me at least tear up. I may not care about Laurel but anyone losing a loved one would get me emotional. Or so I thought because I got nothing from that episode. It was so low key.

The flashbacks. Seriously? They were burying Laurel this episode, that relationship died a long time ago. I kept thinking about how they handled Kate's death on NCIS. Kate is killed. The next episode each character came to terms with her death by having 'conversations' with her. That was effective. They should have done something similar here. Instead of these ridiculously messy flashbacks with Oliver, they should have given each character a flashback. Flashback to Chinese takeout with Thea, flashback to training with Diggle, flashback to shopping with Felicity, flashback to acceptance to law school with Lance, etc.. They totally missed the mark.

As for the scene itself, everyone has pointed out the major flaws already. I won't repeat them. I will only say that that kiss was all sorts of awkward.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Chaser said:

The flashbacks. Seriously? They were burying Laurel this episode, that relationship died a long time ago. I kept thinking about how they handled Kate's death on NCIS. Kate is killed. The next episode each character came to terms with her death by having 'conversations' with her. That was effective. They should have done something similar here. Instead of these ridiculously messy flashbacks with Oliver, they should have given each character a flashback. Flashback to Chinese takeout with Thea, flashback to training with Diggle, flashback to shopping with Felicity, flashback to acceptance to law school with Lance, etc.. They totally missed the mark.

Okay, now I'm annoyed that didn't happen.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Guest

[AES13]

The worst part of the episode was not being able to come here and see all your responses, since I knew the flashbacks would generate a pretty strong (and most likely hilarious!) reaction.  

I wanted to like Laurel and Katie Cassidy, but pretty much couldn't after the first episode.  Despite my dislike of her and intense relief that she's gone, I feel bad for her fans with the way they've sent her off.  Like her or not, she was the (at least titular) leading lady of the show with the highest visibility when she was hired and Black Canary was a big part of the Green Arrow comics saga.  For the show that was supposed to be mourning both to be so dull and uninvolving, and as a goodbye to a regular, it was incredibly unsatisfying.  The retconning nature of the flashbacks was the cherry on top; I definitely got the feeling that either the writers couldn't stand her or they're completely tone deaf as to the implications of the retcons.

Lastly, this season seems to have lost it's drive; the hiatus sure didn't help but am I supposed to fear what Darhk's going to do next?  I don't know if he even remembers what he was doing with the corn.  Not to mention, they all know they just have to break the idol to make him completely powerless so Team Arrow's despairing attitude doesn't really fit.  

[kismet]

I'm actually thinking that perhaps the Flashbacks were coming from LL's mind from the grave. Perhaps they were LL's last thoughts. They were her imagination & dreams of what happened in between s1 & s2. So in my mind, they were about as accurate as dream from beyond the grave can be. Who really knows? They definitely seemed to be the figment of someone's imagination.

On the other hand, if they can retcon the facts from the in-show comics that easily, that supposed to be canon - then can we please just retcon the Queens getting back their money and mansion already? No need for that little fact to stick.

[looptab]

I don't think the FB are estabilished as someone having them. Perhaps S1 estabilished them like Oliver's memories being jolted by something - and PD narrative would pick up with him staring into space - but it's not been like that for a while. They are just a parallel narrative.

[arjumand]

52 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I expected to feel something. I thought for sure PB would make me at least tear up. I may not care about Laurel but anyone losing a loved one would get me emotional. Or so I thought because I got nothing from that episode. It was so low key.

The flashbacks. Seriously? They were burying Laurel this episode, that relationship died a long time ago. I kept thinking about how they handled Kate's death on NCIS. Kate is killed. The next episode each character came to terms with her death by having 'conversations' with her. That was effective. They should have done something similar here. Instead of these ridiculously messy flashbacks with Oliver, they should have given each character a flashback. Flashback to Chinese takeout with Thea, flashback to training with Diggle, flashback to shopping with Felicity, flashback to acceptance to law school with Lance, etc.. They totally missed the mark.

As for the scene itself, everyone has pointed out the major flaws already. I won't repeat them. I will only say that that kiss was all sorts of awkward.

 

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

I don't think the FB are estabilished as someone having them. Perhaps S1 estabilished them like Oliver's memories being jolted by something - and PD narrative would pick up with him staring into space - but it's not been like that for a while. They are just a parallel narrative.

They can't be a parallel narrative, because if they were, they'd always be the possible example that Chaser gave, and we'd have multi-character flashbacks all the time. But our flashbacks are always one person's pov, and mostly Oliver. I remembered another exception - the Felicity flashbacks in Season 3. But even then, unlike this episode and Moira's flashback (in which she's flashing back to Oliver's baby mama drama when she's bleeding out, possibly already dead), there was no break of pov. Everything that happened was only something Felicity was there for.

Oh, I can't say I care very much, it's just one of those fridge logic moments; to quote TV Tropes:

Quote

Half an hour after the show is over, a random viewer is staring into his refrigerator, vaguely bemused by the fact that his six-pack of beer has somehow become a two-pack of beer. Rather than work out how this might have happened, it occurs to him to wonder how in the hell Sydney Bristow went from Hungary to Melbourne, Australia, then to LA, all within 24 hours.

Except it didn't take me half an hour to work it out, and I was unaided by beer. Also, I'd still like to know when exactly Laurel became an amateur photographer of graveyards.

I wish I could care, and I'm kinda disappointed that they had to kill off a female character. But really, part of that is the show's fault, and part of that is my shit right now. Basically, don't create a 3 week gap between a character's death and and episode of people mourning her - the characters are  still mourning her, and that's well and good. We've had weeks to get over it, and now we're kinda irritated that we have to wait ANOTHER FORTY MINUTES for that funeral which ends up not being worth the wait. It's bad storytelling.

[jay741982]

4 hours ago, Angel12d said:

*Shallow comment alert*

Felicity looked stunning in the limo scene. And in those tight black jeans. Hubba!

Also Oliver wore red plaid. Let us rejoice.

Now I gotta see the episode in full to see her in those jeans lol!!!

[Carrie Ann]

1 hour ago, arjumand said:

They can't be a parallel narrative, because if they were, they'd always be the possible example that Chaser gave, and we'd have multi-character flashbacks all the time. But our flashbacks are always one person's pov, and mostly Oliver. I remembered another exception - the Felicity flashbacks in Season 3. But even then, unlike this episode and Moira's flashback (in which she's flashing back to Oliver's baby mama drama when she's bleeding out, possibly already dead), there was no break of pov. Everything that happened was only something Felicity was there for.

I don't think this is accurate. We don't see multi-character flashbacks all the time simply because the writers choose not to do that, not because they need the flashbacks to feel like some remembrance Oliver is experiencing at the present moment. For the most part, the flashbacks function as they were originally designed: to show us what happened to Oliver in his five years away and hopefully offer some parallels to present day. The flashbacks usually show Oliver's POV because that's what the writers want to show, versus the POV of some tertiary character he meets in the FBs. I don't think the flashbacks are intended to come from a one-character limited POV, or if they are, the writers are willing to fudge that when they feel like it. I remember a flashback scene from S2 where we see Slade watching Oliver and Shado, for example, and they don't notice him until he begins talking. (And just for the record, Dig also had a flashback episode, as did Deadshot. I may be forgetting others?)

ETA: whoopsie, Felicity has only had one FB episode.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[Delphi]

Corn!   Fuck Darhk remembering.   I completely forgot about the potentially evil corn.  

[kismet]

The wardrobe dept also deserves major props for the outfits in the 2nd Delicity scene. Dig look insanely handsome in that grey sweater ensemble and Felicity looked amazing in that Black dress. I also loved her red belt. Wardrobe was really great last night.

[SleepDeprived]

I already knew how jerk-y Oliver and Laurel were in S1 so the flashbacks showing them being even more shitty only made me feel more sorry for poor, dead Tommy. But I see that the anti-chemistry blackhole is still in full force between SA and KC. Heh. Also, ever since it was pointed out that SA has trouble keeping eye contact with KC (and other actors?), it was all I could notice in their scenes. I mean, I know Oliver was grieving Tommy and all but it is kinda odd and hilarious.

So, Evelyn must have a very keen eye for "fashion," huh? Her costume was really very similar to Laurel's. Aside from apparently being a wiz at tech that she was able to re-calibrate the Canary collar that Cisco made, that kid must, also, be an amazing seamstress. That or Starling City's Bondage 'R Us seems to be making copies of Laurel's costume and selling it for Halloween or something.

But why was Baby Canary putting the blame solely on Team GA, though? Weren't the prisoners at Reddington (or whatever the name of that H.I.V.E. facility was) still alive when Oliver and everybody else left, and the SCPD got there? So, that means the cops did nothing, too, and left Baby Canary's parents and everybody else to die? Lol. Stay being the worst Starling City PD.

Also, I found it funny that, during her press conference, Ruve was flanked by a blonde woman with glasses and a serious-looking, black man. Since the Darhk's know who Felicity and Diggle are, I choose to believe that Ruve was trolling Team Arrow a little bit with that.

Here for more Felicity and Thea hugs (that .3-seconds-cuddle was cute!), as well as Felicity and Diggle talks. It sure is nice that they're finally able to interact more with each other.

So, uh... Bye, Laurel. At least, you got a service, a legit coffin and a nice tombstone instead of a pine box in a hastily dug-up grave.

[tarotx]

2 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

I don't think this is accurate. We don't see multi-character flashbacks all the time simply because the writers choose not to do that, not because they need the flashbacks to feel like some remembrance Oliver is experiencing at the present moment. For the most part, the flashbacks follow the structure they were originally designed for: to show us what happened to Oliver in his five years away and hopefully offer some parallels to present day. The flashbacks usually show Oliver's POV because that's what the writers want to show, versus the POV of some tertiary character he meets in the FBs. I don't think the flashbacks are intended to come from a one-character limited POV, or if they are, the writers are willing to fudge that when they feel like it. I remember a flashback scene from S2 where we see Slade watching Oliver and Shado, for example, and they don't notice him until he begins talking. (And just for the record, Dig also had a flashback episode, as did Deadshot, and Felicity has now had two. I may be forgetting others?)

My mind must be wiped but I can only remember Felicity having 1 Flashback episode?

[Carrie Ann]

Oh duh, I conflated two things--you're right, only one ep!

[nksarmi]

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I read an another point of view about the flashbacks and how it wasn't really a retcon...

Apparently the scene shows how Oliver abandoned LL in her time of need. Instead of mourning together, Oliver left her which is why she ended up thinking that sleeping with him was a mistake, and because she had no support system after Tommy died (because Oliver left) Laurel started to spiral...And this further emphasises how people always leave Laurel (remember that infamous line she said in S2).

Just being the devil's advocate here :)

Except that the comics showed Oliver giving Tommy's eulogy - the comics we've been told are part of canon. They also showed Oliver trying to see Laurel and Laurel refusing to see him - she was depressed and wanting to be alone. Not "excited about the future with Ollie."

The more I think about this - the grosser the flashbacks become. Why did I watch??!!?

[AudienceofOne]

I don't know what y'all are talking about. Flashbacks? What flashbacks? This episode had no flashbacks. That's what the FF button is for.

EDITED to say: I'm not just being facetious. I really didn't watch them.

Edited April 28, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[Guest]

I find it kinda hilarious how they're so against following the comics exactly that they actually retconned their own tie-in comics that were supposed to be canon for the show. LMAO. What a mess. All to give O/L a crappy fan service scene where they crapped all over Tommy. Good job, show!

Edited April 28, 2016 by Guest