Season 2 Discussion

[dubbel zout]

When Mrs Maguire came back from answering the door and gave Sidney "the look", I was sure it was Amanda in the waiting room.

Me, too! I was relieved it wasn't Amanda.

 

So Reggie kills Anna for her money that he already had? There's no way Laszlo could get it back, so why did the husband kill Anna? To marry her secretary? I thought I was paying attention to the case, but apparently not.

[statsgirl]

It was nice to see Sidney's sister again, and the writers she's now hanging out with.

I felt sorry for Geordie's wife home with the kids while he's out in the pub drinking

 

Where can I find out the story about Gary Bell?

It was the mystery case in the previoust episode.

eta:

Reggie married Anna for her money on the assumption she would kill herself so he would be free to marry the other woman. But she was too happy and not going to kll herself so he did it for her.

Laszlo killed him because he murdered Anna. I got the feeling that post-Auschwitz Laszlo already felts he was dead so he didn't feel any remorse.

Edited April 18, 2016 by statsgirl

[dubbel zout]

Thanks, statsgirl. 

[whatsatool]

Glad Vicar didn't tattle. He does have Nancy Drew like focus. For some reason he reminds me of Brenda on The Closer.

Edited April 18, 2016 by whatsatool

[elle]

Thanks, statsgirl!

 

I can understand how Margaret was upset about the rebuff from Sidney, but it really wasn't the time.  I was hoping she would realize that.

 

Are they re-writing Amanda's story as they go?  I was certain she had turned down Sidney.

[alias1]

I'm pretty sure Amanda made it clear last season that her father would never let her marry Sidney.  I never thought it would have been as simple as Sidney asking her. Amanda is living in an alternate reality.  And she apparently does exactly what her father wants since she did marry Guy.  I don't think they were holding a gun to her head.   It's really sad that when Sidney was troubled, though, he felt he could only talk to Amanda.  I liked Margaret previously but now that she so totally failed to understand how Sidney was feeling, I don't think she's the one for him.  Maybe Hildegard will be back.   I hope nothing happened between Margaret and Geordie. She's quite the little flirt. I hope that's all it was.

 

I really liked the case of the week and even how it was resolved. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by SierraMist

[sinycalone]

Thanks, statsgirl!

 

I can understand how Margaret was upset about the rebuff from Sidney, but it really wasn't the time.  I was hoping she would realize that.

 

Are they re-writing Amanda's story as they go?  I was certain she had turned down Sidney.

 

I was puzzled, too -- could have sworn that was the case.  

 

I think Sidney might have approached Margaret instead of Amanda....but their last encounter made that impossible.  Thus, Amanda was only one left.  

Edited April 18, 2016 by sinycalone

[HoodlumSheep]

I recently rewatched episode 1 of Grantchester, and Sidney suggests to Amanda that they should run away together and do stuff like take long walks on beaches, dancing, traveling or other nonsense similar to that (he stole those lines from one of the people involved in the first murder case), and then she whipped off her glove and showed him the ring.

I had taken his "let's runaway" as him kind-of suggesting they get together/marry, so yeah, I feel like they rewrote stuff, unless if she was just suggesting that he waited too long to ask??

[statsgirl]

I don't think they are re-writing Amanda's story except to emphasize the aspect of star-crossed lovers because apparently someone associated with the show overdosed on Romeo and Juliet.

In season 1, I got the impression that Sidney wanted to marry Amanda but she chose to marry Guy because he had money. Now I see her increasingly feeling that she's trapped in a bad marriage and the money isn't enough any more and she's looking to Sidney to free her.

Sidney meanwhile always wanted Amanda but was too poor to have her, and no matter what other woman he gets involved with, he can't break free of her.

It's kind of Anna Karenina except Sidney is the one who can't let go.

Edited April 18, 2016 by statsgirl

[AuntiePam]

The look on Sidney's face when Amanda revealed her pregnancy -- was there a little bit of relief?  Like "Okay, now it can be over -- there will be a child and the husband will always be part of her life."  ??

 

I trust that Sidney and Geordie friendship will survive, but what Sidney said in the courtroom -- that was out of line.

[nara]

When Mrs Maguire came back from answering the door and gave Sidney "the look", I was sure it was Amanda in the waiting room.

 

I had the same feeling!

I was always on the fence about Margaret, but now I can cross her off the list of who I would be okay with Sidney ending up with.

Was there a scene cut? Margaret was flirting with Geordie and then it cut to something else. Was it only supposed to be implied?

Poor Geordie's wife! :(

Surprised that Sidney withheld who was the murderer, but Sidney just seems so tired and done with everything and tired of Geordie's attitude.

 

I like Margaret as a person, but she is so unsuitable for Sidney.  She's deliberately provocative with Mrs. Maguire and she doesn't seem to understand that Sidney really wants to be a good role model as a vicar.  I also think she was hitting on Geordie, but I thought his expression was somewhat shocked and horrified, implying that he did not give in.  However, in the sentencing scene afterwards, he was looking down guiltily, which made me concerned that he did cheat on his wife. I hope that issue get resolved in the next episode.

 

 

Are they re-writing Amanda's story as they go?  I was certain she had turned down Sidney.

I don't think so.  When he finally suggested that they "run away together" she was already engaged.  You could argue that she could have said something to Sidney before accepting Guy's proposal, but she definitely did not turn him down because he never said anything to her.

[TrininisaScorp]

Add me to the "NO!" list for Amanda and our dishy vicar. They have really not made the best case for these two at all.  They don't come off as "star crossed lovers" the way I see the creators/actors discussing it.  For me, they bring out the past "what ifs" and at this point just drag each other down.  I think there is nostalgia there, the one that got away, but neither fit into the other's life. 

 

I didn't care for Margaret's attitude in this episode.  Obviously, she and Sidney are not compatible.  The only one that has made any sense to me is Hildegard, but I don't know if we'll see her again. 

 

I don't love the shift between Geordie and Sidney.  They sometimes don't agree, but it never gets this ugly.  I don't think I'd ever like it, but the conflict seems at the sacrifice of other more interesting plot lines.  Where is Sidney's PTSD?  What's up with Geordie and Margaret (I refuse to believe he would cheat on his wife!)?

[DD51]

I did not get that his reaction to Amanda's announcement about her pregnancy was one of relief, rather I had the sense of him thinking,,,huh?, what. Almost a ,how did that happen, look. I doubt this will alter his feelings about her at all although it might alter his behavior. The star crossed lovers theme has been discussed in other blogs but I don't get that feeling at all. Amanda choose to do what she did because of social pressure and family pressure. And while Sidney did not specifically ask her to marry him he did allude to this,,but not until Amanda had accepted a proposal from her (now) husband. In fact, she asks him "why didn't you ask me to marry you?" All in all, deep regret on both peoples part, but no way to resolve the issue. The Church will not accept marriage after divorce unless that first person is dead, Diana and Charles comes to mind. And Amanda does not strike me as a person who would kill her current husband to marry Sidney, although that might solve the money problem.

[DD51]

And by the way, how startling was it to see Amanda having a nice cocktail and smoking a cigarette while she says she is pregnant ? I realize it is set in 1956 or so, but to our 2016 eyes it is astounding .

[sinycalone]

I don't see them as star-crossed lovers....just two people who need to stop fantasizing that life would have been perfect, if only.....

[nara]

Forgot to mention that I loved the return of Jenny! She's smart and kind and fun. Glad to she she's now got a job she loves. It appears that she has moved up from the typing pool to reading/editing. Not sure if Jonny was missing from the party to keep costs down or if he's out of the picture.

I feel a little annoyed that there wasn't a real exorcism. I was looking forward to seeing someone acting possessed.

For those who hate Sidney/Amanda, take comfort in the fact that now that they are being a little more honest and open, maybe they will get all that hopeless longing out of their systems.

Given what Geordie said to Margaret about being one of us, is it possible that she will try to become a police officer? It just occurred to me that she's the one that came up with the idea that Mrs. Lawson was murdered, so she might have a good brain for this mystery thing. Plus, she is definitely bold, so pushing boundaries might be perfect for her.

[dubbel zout]

However, in the sentencing scene afterwards, he was looking down guiltily, which made me concerned that he did cheat on his wife.

 

That was about Sidney, not Margaret. He was looking intently at Geordie when the verdict was read, and Geordie wouldn't look at him.

 

For Amanda, I think, Sidney is definitely a "grass is greener" option, but I think she'd hate being a vicar's wife. She can't even be useful as a wealthy man's wife.

[Sonja]

We got like, two seconds of Leonard and he was being adorable about having sinned due to gambling on a horse.

Surprised that Sidney withheld who was the murderer, but Sidney just seems so tired and done with everything and tired of Geordie's attitude.

Leave it to Leonard to bet on a horse called Devil's Banquet, immediately feel guilty and kind of solve the mystery in one go. Too bad I knew Laszlo was involved from the start. You don't cast Elliot Levy to stand smiling in the background.

 

I think Sidney just wanted the dying (and taking revenge) to stop; you hit the nail on the head with 'tired'. The only downside is that we never learned if Geordie figured it out as well or if Laszlo got away with it.

It was nice to see Sidney's sister again, and the writers she's now hanging out with.

I was glad to see her again too, but no mention of Johnny?

 

I can understand how Margaret was upset about the rebuff from Sidney, but it really wasn't the time.  I was hoping she would realize that.

On one hand, her being upset is understandable, but on the other, what did she think was going to happen when she started going out with a vicar? Maybe Sidney should have spelled out the rules for her after last episode's final scene.

 

I'm pretty sure Amanda made it clear last season that her father would never let her marry Sidney.  I never thought it would have been as simple as Sidney asking her. Amanda is living in an alternate reality.  And she apparently does exactly what her father wants since she did marry Guy.  I don't think they were holding a gun to her head.   It's really sad that when Sidney was troubled, though, he felt he could only talk to Amanda.  I liked Margaret previously but now that she so totally failed to understand how Sidney was feeling, I don't think she's the one for him.  Maybe Hildegard will be back.   I hope nothing happened between Margaret and Geordie. She's quite the little flirt. I hope that's all it was.

 

I really liked the case of the week and even how it was resolved. 

The women they write as Sidney's love interests make me want to bash my head agains the table. Amanda doesn't know what she wants (probably always what she doesn't have at that point), Margaret doesn't care he's a vicar and has to adhere to certain rules and also doesn't get when to back off for a minute. Hildegard would have been good for him, but I understand her running for the hills after his confession about Gloria.

 

The look on Sidney's face when Amanda revealed her pregnancy -- was there a little bit of relief?  Like "Okay, now it can be over -- there will be a child and the husband will always be part of her life."  ??

 

I trust that Sidney and Geordie friendship will survive, but what Sidney said in the courtroom -- that was out of line.

I didn't see any relief, but the end of that scene bugged me to no end. What kind of soap opera direction/camera work was that?

 

He was desperate, but that was still a low blow and he knew it. After all, he told Amanda he burned all bridges for naught.

 

Forgot to mention that I loved the return of Jenny! She's smart and kind and fun. Glad to she she's now got a job she loves. It appears that she has moved up from the typing pool to reading/editing. Not sure if Jonny was missing from the party to keep costs down or if he's out of the picture.

I feel a little annoyed that there wasn't a real exorcism. I was looking forward to seeing someone acting possessed.

For those who hate Sidney/Amanda, take comfort in the fact that now that they are being a little more honest and open, maybe they will get all that hopeless longing out of their systems.

Given what Geordie said to Margaret about being one of us, is it possible that she will try to become a police officer? It just occurred to me that she's the one that came up with the idea that Mrs. Lawson was murdered, so she might have a good brain for this mystery thing. Plus, she is definitely bold, so pushing boundaries might be perfect for her.

There's not enough Jenny in this show. I was wondering about Johnny as well. Maybe the actor wasn't available or it was a budgetary issue. They could at least have mentioned him being unable to leave the club for one evening to put my mind at ease about the one functional(ish) couple on the show.

 

They never mentioned someone being possessed, but the new Mrs. Lawson was so bugged out by the housekeeper keeping the house as Anna wanted it, I wouldn't have put it past her to say she was posessed by the former Mrs. Lawson ;-)

 

Does anyone know how far policewomen could go back then? I doubt Margaret would ever have had a chance to become a detective. Her inability to judge people's emotions correctly and respond accordingly wouldn't help during interviews either.

[dubbel zout]

I can understand how Margaret was upset about the rebuff from Sidney, but it really wasn't the time.  I was hoping she would realize that.

On one hand, her being upset is understandable, but on the other, what did she think was going to happen when she started going out with a vicar? Maybe Sidney should have spelled out the rules for her after last episode's final scene.

I can't blame her for thinking Sidney might sleep with her. His frustration with Amanda is interfering with the relationship with Margaret, and that's on Sidney to resolve, not Margaret. I think Margaret is too deliberately provocative, but I think it's also something of a defense mechanism, as being a working woman in a mostly male environment can't be easy. Even Jenny bemoaned that the men at the publishing house frequently hit on her. In some ways, Margaret can't win.

[elle]

I don't think they are re-writing Amanda's story except to emphasize the aspect of star-crossed lovers because apparently someone associated with the show overdosed on Romeo and Juliet.

<snip>

It's kind of Anna Karenina except Sidney is the one who can't let go.

They, tptb or the writers, do realize that both those stories end badly.

[whatsatool]

I trust that Sidney and Geordie friendship will survive, but what Sidney said in the courtroom -- that was out of line.

Well in his defense, a death penalty hanging was involved.

[photo fox]

I was fine with Sidney's testimony. It was the truth.

[AuntiePam]

I was fine with Sidney's testimony. It was the truth.

 

But the implication of that last comment was that Geordie was being influenced by public opinion.  Everyone except Sidney and Mrs. Bell wanted Gary to hang. 

 

Gary's comment to Sidney "I have to believe it's fair" -- that's one of the best lines ever written on this show.

[zxy556575]

Since Sidney is against the death penalty, seems like he wouldn't be able, in good conscience, to even work with Geordie on murder cases anymore. Even though Sidney feeling gutted about his role in bringing Gary to justice was the heavy-handed theme of the week, I was still disappointed in his unilateral decision that Laszlo didn't deserve to be brought to justice for murder.

 

I agree with others that Sidney is becoming my least favorite character on the show: his moping/drinking, fluctuating ethics, negligence of his duties, and fucked up romantic relationships are making it difficult for me to care what happens to him.

Edited April 18, 2016 by lordonia

[Garnett7]

Phew, I'm so glad to see that others feel towards Amanda/Sydney as I do. I was afraid they'd be like the popular ship, everyone rooting for them while I was over here wanting that "relationship" to just die already. The writers do her no favors, IMO. I don't see them as "star-crossed" either but as him hung up on the dream of her and her always wanting what she doesn't have at that moment.

 

And this week when she was "Why didn't you ask me to marry you" and "You're just like my father making decisions for me". Oh, spare me! She knew exactly how Sydney felt about her last season. It was all but written on his forehead. She married Guy for money because money was supposed to make her happy. Well, it didn't and now she's miserable so it's fault Sydney for not stopping her from her own choice? And when does she own up to HER DECISIONS? She chose this marriage. No one held a gun to her head. And now she keeps dropping by enough to ensure Sydney is still pining. I just want her gone.

 

I adore Margaret. She's not right for Sydney but I love her anyhow. Please, show, do not make her the "villain" that Geordie cheats with and further alienates himself from Sydney. That's just too cliche.

 

I enjoyed the murder mystery of the week. It was very well done and I suspected everyone but the husband of killing the first wife. Nice twist there.

[truther]

Does anyone know how far policewomen could go back then? I doubt Margaret would ever have had a chance to become a detective. Her inability to judge people's emotions correctly and respond accordingly wouldn't help during interviews either.

If Life on Mars, which takes place twenty years later, is any indication, then policewomen had a giant brick wall standing in the middle of their career paths.  

 

I didn't like this episode.  There was no tension about Gary's verdict whatsoever because it was plainly obvious he'd be convicted.  So the whole angsty setup seemed pointless.  And yeah, Amanda needs to get hit by a bus.  I loathe Guy, but wouldn't it be great if every episode he just randomly appeared and slugged Sidney and told him to pull his finger out and get on with life?

[proserpina65]

The execution story is going to drag on all season, isn't it?  Ugh.  I can see Sidney's point, and mostly believe the kid's story myself, but I can also see where Geordie's coming from, and given that this is screwing up their friendship, I want it over a.s.a.p. so that we can get back to the good show this used to be.

 

Oh, and Amanda is the absolute worst.  She couldn't stand it when Sidney's sister was paying attention to Margaret at the party, could she?  What a narcissistic bitch.

 

Leonard, on the other hand, is wonderful.  I really don't want him to get hurt, but given the mores of the times, I fear for him.  The scene where he confessed to putting a bet on Devil's Banquet was pretty much the only lighthearted moment of the whole episode.

Edited April 18, 2016 by proserpina65

[statsgirl]

Since Sidney is against the death penalty, seems like he wouldn't be able, in good conscience, to even work with Geordie on murder cases anymore. Even though Sidney feeling gutted about his role in bringing Gary to justice was the heavy-handed theme of the week, I was still disappointed in his unilateral decision that Laszlo didn't deserve to be brought to justice for murder.

The one thing I really liked in this episode was the exploration of what justice is.  Geordie says he serves justice but I'm with Sidney, what justice is there in Gary hanging?  There is going to be no justice for the girl's father, who emotionally abused her, and no justice for Sidney's friend who got her pregnant and forced her to risk her life trying to abort the fetus.  And no justice for those who make the laws that made abortion illegal in those days.

 

I liked that Sidney did not turn Laszlo in.  There was no real justice for Reggie who murdered his sister for her money and Laszlo has suffered enough.  Sometimes you get to justice more by ignoring what you "should" be doing.

 

 

I agree with others that Sidney is becoming my least favorite character on the show: his moping/drinking, fluctuating ethics, negligence of his duties, and fucked up romantic relationships make it difficult for me to care what happens to him.

 

They are really ruining my enjoyment of Sidney.  Last year when it was about his PTSD, I had sympathy. This year it seems like he's making a bunch of bad, naive decisions.

 

They, tptb or the writers, do realize that both those stories end badly.

I suspect that's what they like about them.  All the drama and the suffering.

 

My problem is that I have enough bad endings in my real life, as the ending of Sullivan's Travels showed, people want to be entertained by being able to forget the misery of real life.

[truther]

The execution story is going to drag on all season, isn't it?  Ugh.  I can see Sidney's point, and mostly believe the kid's story myself, but I can also see where Geordie's coming from, and given that this is screwing up their friendship, I want it over a.s.a.p. so that we can get back to the good show this used to be.

That's a serious part of my problem with that particular storyline.  It would be one thing if Gary had been plainly scapegoated into something manifestly unjust, and we could respect Sidney for being a voice of reason.  But it's actually quite easy to see it from Geordie's point of view.  Gary did kill her.  He held her down, administered the poison, and physically restrained her when she fought for her life.  He was a man using his brute strength to end a woman's life against her will.  That's murder, and Gary's protestations of innocence probably sound the same, to Geordie and the others, as every other murder defendant's protestations of innocence.  

[tootsie]

O, Leonard, you make me happy. "And I've never felt more alive!" Reservations for 3 was a nice touch (although for 4 to include Dickens would have been even nicer...a nice low basket to the side so the 3 humans could drop treats now and then - perfect)

If Geordie makes anything more than eye contact with Margaret I'm done with the whole Grantchester cast. Bad enough that the shoplifting socialite and boozey vicar make goo goo eyes but someone has to stand up for Cathy.

And yes, I understand about S's antipathy for the death penalty, but Gary did kill someone and death by turpentine could not have been pleasant. My sympathy factor is dropping with each episode. Please move on, writers, with a new mystery (I did like this week's whodunit tho - shades of Rebecca) and more sleuthing. I have Miss Marple tastes, I'm afraid, & the upcoming final season of Wallender looks like it will provide all the angst I can handle.

[roomtorome]

Why is the vicar conducting the "police" interviews instead of the cop?  It's so annoying - 

 

I guess the way they could have him and Amanda wind up in the end is if her husband dies OR (heaven forbid) she loses her child (sorry, awful thought, but it wouldn't be the first time it was used as a catalyst for some other reason in a show).

[dubbel zout]

Since Sidney is against the death penalty, seems like he wouldn't be able, in good conscience, to even work with Geordie on murder cases anymore.

 

Not every murder case will end in the DP, though; Gary got it because he was convicted of the British equivalent of first degree murder. I think there is value in Sidney continuing to help Geordie and trying to push back against the DP; otherwise, nothing would likely change.

 

Does anyone know how far policewomen could go back then? I doubt Margaret would ever have had a chance to become a detective.

 

Is Margaret an actual policewoman? I thought she was a secretary or other civilian employee. She's still part of the team, but not part of the actual force.

 

shades of Rebecca

 

I'm surprised no one in the episode mentioned the book, TBH. It was so similar in ways!

Edited April 18, 2016 by dubbel zout

[attica]

I didn't care for Margaret's attitude in this episode.

 

Not me. I nearly cheered when she started chewing Sidney out. He mashes her up against the wall (last ep), but now he's all vicary. He pines in such an obvious manner over Amanda, which can only make Margaret feel like a fifth wheel or worse. Good for her for not being one to be long-suffering. Now, I don't think she's very smart to be flirting with Geordie, but then again, it's on him to set better (or even some) boundaries with coworkers.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm surprised no one in the episode mentioned the book, TBH. It was so similar in ways!

I was going to, but then I didn't because they went in a slightly different direction. That housekeeper was straight out of Rebecca, but she only had one scene before she basically vanished from the episode, so I scratched the idea of bringing it up.

But yeah, there were definitely shades of Rebecca.

Edited April 18, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[dubbel zout]

I'd have thought Sidney might mention getting Mrs. Danvers vibes from the housekeeper, but maybe because she was a one and done it wasn't worth it. Or Laszlo's sister might have said something. A missed opportunity, but it didn't change the story.

[elle]

That's a serious part of my problem with that particular storyline.  It would be one thing if Gary had been plainly scapegoated into something manifestly unjust, and we could respect Sidney for being a voice of reason.  But it's actually quite easy to see it from Geordie's point of view.  Gary did kill her.  He held her down, administered the poison, and physically restrained her when she fought for her life.  He was a man using his brute strength to end a woman's life against her will.  That's murder, and Gary's protestations of innocence probably sound the same, to Geordie and the others, as every other murder defendant's protestations of innocence.  

Thank you for posting this, it goes a long way to explain what is going on for those who missed much of the first few episodes.  I was under the impression that it was a botched abortion that killed the girl.  I found it strange to have just watched "Call the Midwife" which revolved around a story of a young woman giving her self an abortion and the consequences that followed.

 

To me, it has also been unclear just what Sidney is trying to do 1)get the guy an acquittal or 2)knowing that the guy is guilty, keep him from getting the death penalty  (meanwhile for the other vicar, there is no penalty).

 

Sidney was wrong to say on the stand what Geordie had said to him about Geordie "needing to see him(the guy) die."

[MissLucas]

I dunno - I think Sidney was really shaken by what he witnessed during the interrogation. That Geordie allowed a 'mild' form of waterboarding in his office was a sign to him that something about Geordie's behavior was off. And I agree - Geordie rants about justice needing to be done but I see no justice here. Not because I'm against the death penalty but because I don't see a murder here but a case of (involuntary) manslaughter. This was a tragedy with many culprits and Geordie knows that yet he keeps zooming in on Gary.

The slightly abusive father, the vicar who seduced her are just on top of the list. It's later revealed that Abby had confessed to her mother who refused to help her.

[dubbel zout]

To me, it has also been unclear just what Sidney is trying to do 1)get the guy an acquittal or 2)knowing that the guy is guilty, keep him from getting the death penalty  (meanwhile for the other vicar, there is no penalty).

 

Sidney didn't want Gary sentenced to death. He can accept a lifetime in prison. Sidney's whole speech at the end about when does the killing stop—he doesn't believe in an eye for an eye, at least when there might be some extenuating circumstances. (ETA:) I think the show did a good job of showing us Geordie's point of view on the DP. I don't think he has to be for it to be a good detective, as it's not the police's job to mete out punishment.

 

It would be interesting to know how he'd fell about a death sentence for, say, a serial killer. Does Sidney have a blanket objection to the DP, or is it only for specific criminals?

Edited April 18, 2016 by dubbel zout

[magdalene]

I am rapidly losing any desire to watch this show.  I loathe Amanda. I don't like Sidney anymore. He is clearly not cut out to be a vicar and a lot of his problems are self-inflicted. I find him kind of pathetic. 

 

I am also sick of this death penality story line. I don't like to watch people get hanged for my entertainment so I'll be skipping next week. 

[nara]

The rules of evidence have apparently changed a lot over time. I felt like Geordie and Sidney were both allowed to say things that were not facts with which they could be acquainted/relevant to the issue.

[LaChavalina]

I'm not sure which was more surprising to me: That Sidney was able to flat-out say the other vicar was the father of the baby in open court, or that the judge and the audience (incl. townspeople) seemed to have no reaction. I mean, the folks hearing that would have to put two and two together with this other vicar getting abruptly "re-assigned," right? Yet no one seems to soften toward Sidney or come over to his side.

 

Blah blah, Amanda. I liked Margaret right up until she jumped on Sidney. It certainly wouldn't be OK if the genders were reversed, and I don't think it was OK here. 

[Sonja]

I can't blame her for thinking Sidney might sleep with her. His frustration with Amanda is interfering with the relationship with Margaret, and that's on Sidney to resolve, not Margaret. I think Margaret is too deliberately provocative, but I think it's also something of a defense mechanism, as being a working woman in a mostly male environment can't be easy. Even Jenny bemoaned that the men at the publishing house frequently hit on her. In some ways, Margaret can't win.

Not that being hit on at work has stopped 60 years later...

That's why I said Sidney should have explained the rules of not being a saint/still being a vicar after the wall-smooch. He doesn't seem to be too good with his words when it comes to women though. Margaret apparently not thinking about it afterwards, but moving on to the next target doesn't endear her to me either. Sidney introducing her to his sister should have meant more than christening the couch.

 

Gary's comment to Sidney "I have to believe it's fair" -- that's one of the best lines ever written on this show.

That line was brilliant. Such an unexpected punch to the emotional equivalent of the solar plexus.

 

The execution story is going to drag on all season, isn't it?  Ugh.  I can see Sidney's point, and mostly believe the kid's story myself, but I can also see where Geordie's coming from, and given that this is screwing up their friendship, I want it over a.s.a.p. so that we can get back to the good show this used to be.

 

Oh, and Amanda is the absolute worst.  She couldn't stand it when Sidney's sister was paying attention to Margaret at the party, could she?  What a narcissistic bitch.

Actually I thought the execution story was handled pretty well in the final two eps of the series, so hold on.

 

Amanda's need for attention was so childish during the party. She doesn't seem to get much from Guy except for when he happens to be jealous, but that's not Margaret's fault.

 

That's a serious part of my problem with that particular storyline.  It would be one thing if Gary had been plainly scapegoated into something manifestly unjust, and we could respect Sidney for being a voice of reason.  But it's actually quite easy to see it from Geordie's point of view.  Gary did kill her.  He held her down, administered the poison, and physically restrained her when she fought for her life.  He was a man using his brute strength to end a woman's life against her will.  That's murder, and Gary's protestations of innocence probably sound the same, to Geordie and the others, as every other murder defendant's protestations of innocence.  

Geordie also doesn't seem to believe that Gary and Abigail didn't have sex. He still maintains it could be Gary's baby. While I understand him being disgusted by Gary holding her down so hard ne nearly broke her collarbone (something Geordie states several times), he absolutely didn't listen to people who knew the both of them including Sidney. I don't get how someone who was preaching (sorry) that policemen needed to have an open mind to all possibilities in an investigation just blatantly disregards Abigail's diary and what she wrote about Milbourne in order for someone being held responsible for her death.

 

Is Margaret an actual policewoman? I thought she was a secretary or other civilian employee. She's still part of the team, but not part of the actual force.

My question was in reply to someone suggesting she could try to become one. She is a secretary and I don't think she would make a good policewoman, but what I meant with the question was that I didn't think she'd actually get to solve any crimes even if she made the change.

 

I dunno - I think Sidney was really shaken by what he witnessed during the interrogation. That Geordie allowed a 'mild' form of waterboarding in his office was a sign to him that something about Geordie's behavior was off. And I agree - Geordie rants about justice needing to be done but I see no justice here. Not because I'm against the death penalty but because I don't see a murder here but a case of (involuntary) manslaughter. This was a tragedy with many culprits and Geordie knows that yet he keeps zooming in on Gary.

The slightly abusive father, the vicar who seduced her are just on top of the list. It's later revealed that Abby had confessed to her mother who refused to help her.

Couldn't agree more.

When her mother revealed she knew about the baby and didn't help, she broke my heart. And as much as Abigail's parents made huge mistakes - and in her father's case still fail to see it - the way they stuck together in the last episode and tried to patch things up with Mrs Bell was beautiful in a twisted way. I also hope Abby's mother hit something that will cause Sam chronic pain for the rest of his miserable life as a jailbird.

 

I'm not sure which was more surprising to me: That Sidney was able to flat-out say the other vicar was the father of the baby in open court, or that the judge and the audience (incl. townspeople) seemed to have no reaction. I mean, the folks hearing that would have to put two and two together with this other vicar getting abruptly "re-assigned," right? Yet no one seems to soften toward Sidney or come over to his side.

I live in a mainly Catholic country where priests aren't allowed to marry. That's why they all used to have 'cooks' and everybody knew it. The priest in the village my mother lives in employs a married woman who cleans his flat twice a week. There have long been rumours his flat wasn't the only thing she polished until she once opened his door wearing his robe and thereby confirmed it.

My grandmother's story is actually similar to Abby's. We don't know the exact goings-on since we only found out after she had died, but when she was 15, she had a son (whom she gave up) by the local priest and according to her sister, it didn't have any consequences whatsoever even though everyone knew. That was in the 1930s.

[proserpina65]

The one thing I really liked in this episode was the exploration of what justice is.  Geordie says he serves justice but I'm with Sidney, what justice is there in Gary hanging?  There is going to be no justice for the girl's father, who emotionally abused her, and no justice for Sidney's friend who got her pregnant and forced her to risk her life trying to abort the fetus.  And no justice for those who make the laws that made abortion illegal in those days.

 

I liked that Sidney did not turn Laszlo in.  There was no real justice for Reggie who murdered his sister for her money and Laszlo has suffered enough.  Sometimes you get to justice more by ignoring what you "should" be doing.

 

I don't disagree with you in a sense, but Geordie really doesn't have much choice about ignoring what the law says, given his job.  With the Gary Bell case, he couldn't ignore the marks on her neck which, to him, negated Gary's defense.  Not saying I think he's right, exactly, but I do understand why he felt that Gary was lying.

[proserpina65]

Geordie also doesn't seem to believe that Gary and Abigail didn't have sex. He still maintains it could be Gary's baby.

 

Did Geordie say that or was it just the prosecutor?  I can't remember, and don't have it recorded so I can't check.

[LaChavalina]

My grandmother's story is actually similar to Abby's. We don't know the exact goings-on since we only found out after she had died, but when she was 15, she had a son (whom she gave up) by the local priest and according to her sister, it didn't have any consequences whatsoever even though everyone knew. That was in the 1930s.

Point taken, but in the context of this universe we're meant to believe Grantchester is a town so cloistered and on its high horse that having a pastor who listens to jazz music is an embarrassment. Recall how Sidney was treated at the beginning of episode 1, when Abigail's father accused him of sleeping with her? Now it turns out that the other pastor actually did get her pregnant and no one blinks an eye when it comes out in court. It's just inconsistent.

[DD51]

Off topic but, if you have read the books the series is based on, you know we are in uncharted waters now. The books give a very different plot line, nothing like what we are seeing. No spoilers just in case you want to read the books, but I am glad I read the books first or I would be in a total different mind set about the series.

[statsgirl]

I live in a mainly Catholic country where priests aren't allowed to marry. That's why they all used to have 'cooks' and everybody knew it. The priest in the village my mother lives in employs a married woman who cleans his flat twice a week. There have long been rumours his flat wasn't the only thing she polished until she once opened his door wearing his robe and thereby confirmed it.

My grandmother's story is actually similar to Abby's. We don't know the exact goings-on since we only found out after she had died, but when she was 15, she had a son (whom she gave up) by the local priest and according to her sister, it didn't have any consequences whatsoever even though everyone knew. That was in the 1930s.

My father used to tell about where he grew up where there was the priest, his housekeeper and their children.

I know the Catholic Church hides the fact that priests have sex (horrors!) because they are supposed to be celibate. I was very surprised when the Anglican Church, where priests are allowed to marry and have sex, denied that sin too. The poor girl.

but I am glad I read the books first or I would be in a total different mind set about the series.

In what way? Does having read the books mean that you appreciate the TV show more? Or less?

Edited April 20, 2016 by statsgirl

[Sonja]

Did Geordie say that or was it just the prosecutor?  I can't remember, and don't have it recorded so I can't check.

When Geordie insisted Gary was guitly because he had a relationship with Abby and wanted to get rid of the baby, Sidney replied it wasn't Gary's baby and Geordie said they didn't know that and that she was with Sam didn't mean she didn't sleep with Gary as well.

 

Point taken, but in the context of this universe we're meant to believe Grantchester is a town so cloistered and on its high horse that having a pastor who listens to jazz music is an embarrassment. Recall how Sidney was treated at the beginning of episode 1, when Abigail's father accused him of sleeping with her? Now it turns out that the other pastor actually did get her pregnant and no one blinks an eye when it comes out in court. It's just inconsistent.

The trial takes place in Cambridge which had a population of about 120k in 1950. It would be surprising if there happened to be parishioners from Hardwick in the room instead of working back home.

 

Parishioners can be weird. When the priest in my mother's village bought a motorbike, everyone was aghast. The fact that he has an affair with a married woman, refuses to allow cremation and is a grade A ****** that no one would ever turn to in times of need is being taken for granted. Him listening to jazz would be a scandal too though, even now ;-)

 

There was a shot of the jurors (Brits, please help me out here if that's not what they were called) looking at each other with raised eyebrows when Sidney said Milbourne was the father and former vicar of Hardwick. The crown was out for a conviction, so he couldn't have cared less what was going on before Abby's death and ridiculed the accusation.

I would hope if Milbourne had not been hidden away by the church, he would have been treated accordingly, not just as a distraction created by Sidney in order to save Gary like in the trial.

 

That said, continuation or consistency have never been the show's strongest suit. Sidney acted as if he hadn't seen Sam in ages, but apparently they both worked with the local teenagers and according to the interwebs it takes an exhausting 7 minutes to get from Grantchester to Hardwick by bicycle. And don't even get me started on the sloppy editing that sometimes takes me out of scenes completely.

[Margherita Erdman]

Here's a mystery that's been bothering me for the past two episodes — how and when did Dickens turn from a chocolate lab to a black one? Or is it just my TV?

[Sonja]

I'm afraid it's your TV, it's the same dog who is apparently even called Dickens in real life.