zxy556575 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Ouch. Not so cozy after all. I'm really enjoying seeing the character development all around, especially Leonard. I was imagining he'd remain nothing more than a comic relief cardboard cutout. Shaving the mustache was good for him. Even Mrs. Maguire has thawed a bit. 2 Link to comment
pcta February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Lordonia - beat me to it. Ran over here to say - not so cozy. But even with the darker theme still very loving. It IS a lovely program. 2 Link to comment
magdalene February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 (edited) That was the best episode yet. Not cozy and no easy resolutions - but still with heartwarming moments. Does that sound cheesy? I have warmed to Leonard in record time and I was glad to see Hildegard again. I usually don't like being spoiled but but knowing that Sidney marries Hildegard in a later book and has a child with her, and that their marriage is a happy one makes me feel better for Sidney and his whole frustrating situation with Amanda. I hope they stick with this plot development if the show continues for a couple more series. It's amazing how I have become so invested in this fictional vicars happiness. Edited February 9, 2015 by magdalene 4 Link to comment
pcta February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 (edited) I think Geordie felt powerless, overwhelmed. "I'd die for my son but I can't do that." I've seen both men and women that don't do death well. Edited February 9, 2015 by pcta 3 Link to comment
M. Darcy February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Dickens saved the day! He told everyone about the fire. The woman at the end that Leonard was talking to - could anyone tell if that was Ben's "girlfriend". I can't decide if he was trying to counsel her through a difficult time or he was on a date himself. For Leonard, hopefully the former. 2 Link to comment
zxy556575 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I was a bit confused why Amanda and her fiancé were in Grantchester for Sunday services. Have they started attending because they're going to be married there? They don't live that close, if I'm understanding the geography correctly. Amanda had been taking the train to visit Sidney previously. 1 Link to comment
yourstruly February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 (edited) The woman at the end that Leonard was talking to - could anyone tell if that was Ben's "girlfriend". I can't decide if he was trying to counsel her through a difficult time or he was on a date himself. For Leonard, hopefully the former. I thought that was the church organist that liked Leonard and was complimenting him for his response to the fire, where he responded that all he did was fall over while making a phone call. I thought it was clear that we're supposed to see Leonard as gay and closeted, so the juxtaposition between what happened with the main mystery and Leonard's inability to be open was sort of bittersweet. I wonder how they are going to develop that as the series goes on. Edited February 9, 2015 by yourstruly 4 Link to comment
Kohola3 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I thought it was clear that we're supposed to see Leonard as gay and closeted, so the juxtaposition between what happened with the main mystery and Leonard's inability to be open was sort of bittersweet. I wonder how they are going to develop that as the series goes on. Yes, weren't their veiled references to Leonard's life choice when he first arrived? I was surprised with the introduction of an interested female. That would be a rather difficult and sad thread to follow in light of this episode. Link to comment
Kohola3 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 (edited) Which is possible. That's the thing. This whole episode was all about how a gay man could not be "out" in society in those days. Good grief, they slapped the one guy in jail just for coming into the bathroom at the wrong time! We can't look at this with 2014 sensibilities. If Leonard were to even hint at the fact that he is gay he'd be kicked out of the church in a heartbeat AND stand the chance of going to jail forever. Perhaps Sidney's experiences in war left him more accepting of differences in others but at that time gays went to jail and not even physicians or clergy viewed them as anything but evil and perverted. Homosexuality was a criminal offense in England until the 60s. Edited February 9, 2015 by Kohola3 1 Link to comment
ComeWhatMay February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Perhaps Sidney's experiences in war left him more accepting of differences in others but at that time gays went to jail and not even physicians or clergy viewed them as anything but evil and perverted. I think that's part of it right there. I have noticed that Sidney & his sister Jenn are just fundamentally decent people too. David *Sidney* is fabulous. Very nice. Love how Sidney kept after Geordie to do the right thing until he did. That's a true friend. To piggyback on earlier posts, Amanda is a cut above her lot as far as attitudes & behavior, but she's no Sybil Crawley. She doesn't have enough about her to turn her back on all the advantages of her present life & what Guy has to offer. I have no doubt that the life of a vicar's wife is of no appeal to her either. I don't dislike her for that -- not everyone is cut out to be spouse of a vicar or service member. There's a lot of strength & sacrifice involved. Aristo life would not prepare you for it. You have to be truly exceptional to knowingly throw it over for love. I will be fair to her & say that Sybil Crawley did not have two motherless younger brothers from whom she would likely be cut off if she did not comply with her father's wishes to marry Guy. She's the Mary of the family too -- eldest (& only) daughter. I also suspect this is a marriage of an old name & money. I did not catch a Sir before Sterling Hopkins name in the wedding announcement. Those piles are expensive to maintain & while it looks nice it could be literally falling down around Sir Edward Kendall. There are also the aforementioned school fees for the boys. I think there's a lot more to this marriage than Amanda is willing to admit -- she alluded to it in the church with Sidney (I would need church too after seeing his battle scarred, hot body in nothing but a towel) -- "what I thought of a match was rather low down on the priority list" or some such. Sidney is drop dead handsome, a *true* gentleman & a war hero. I wouldn't mind his ministrations myself. Amanda, with her innate "entitled ease," wants to have her cake & eat it too. She wants to marry Guy, but have Sidney remain hopelessly devoted to her. I also suspect she wants to have a little fun before the wedding & Sidney will wind up paying for it as the have not in the equation does. Amanda is the type who will elevate the people around her in her present circumstances, but she's not cut out for life outside the manor house. I suspect we will see her get on with it with Guy & I'll be glad for it. Too bad she will probably irrevocably taint her first love in the process -- immature people will do that... 3 Link to comment
izabella February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 (edited) I understand that. But I think it is also a mistake to view every action a person makes (even a fictional one) through the filter that "he is gay and therefore that's why he acts this way." Now it is probably true in this case, I admit. It's just my personal hobby horse (my filter, you might say). I initially thought Leonard might be gay, but then, after he was asking Sydney if ministry was a quiet life or some such, I started to wonder if he was just someone who had an awkward or tough time dealing with social interactions, or had anxiety issues like a lot of people do these days. So, I don't think it's a given that he's gay. I actually had a hard time viewing his reactions in this episode as those of someone who is gay. I'd have expected to see more fear and anxiety (that he'd be trying to hide) in his demeanor if her were gay. Edited February 9, 2015 by izabella 2 Link to comment
JudyObscure February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Sidney and Mrs. Maguire are my favorite couple! They either make me laugh or cry in every scene they share. I'm also loving the religious talks between Leonard and Sidney, with Leonard taking the conservative side of the issues, contrary to our expectations. Well developed loveable characters and some pretty good mysteries -- I hope this one lasts a long time. 3 Link to comment
yourstruly February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 (edited) Leonard has already been referred to as a "pansy" by one character (I think it may have been Geordie actually), and when Mrs. Maguire said to Leonard that no female guests were allowed in the house after hours, Sidney smirked. And there was a quick scene where Leonard seemed interested in Ben and he went out of his way to give him the book at the end of the episode. I would be surprised if he isn't gay. And this: Leonard has a potential for being a complex character and I hope they don't take too predictable a route with him. I think a closeted gay priest in England in the 50s and 60s would be inherently interesting and not predictable at all. My somewhat unpopular opinion: I really don't like Mrs. Maguire and am wondering if I am supposed to. I hope they develop her character more because she is so one-dimensionally sour to me right now. ETA: Jinx, judytheobscure!!!. We all have our opinions I guess! Edited February 9, 2015 by yourstruly 2 Link to comment
BindsTheTuna February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I'm pretty sure Sidney's sister recommended Leonard, and told Sidney that Leonard was gay. I may be misremembering but I don't think so. I wish I had a continuous loop of that baby's whooping cough to play on Facebook for all my anti-vaxxing friends and family. 8 Link to comment
M. Darcy February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I'm pretty sure Sidney's sister recommended Leonard, and told Sidney that Leonard was gay. I think it was the woman who was the killer in episode 2 - Leonard was her lodger. But she did say that Leonard was gay. 2 Link to comment
ComeWhatMay February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I think it was the woman who was the killer in episode 2 - Leonard was her lodger. But she did say that Leonard was gay. Yes, Daphne, & she did say Leonard was gay. Link to comment
BindsTheTuna February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I think it was the woman who was the killer in episode 2 - Leonard was her lodger. But she did say that Leonard was gay. That's it! Thanks. I knew it was SOMEONE in that episode. Link to comment
dubbel zout February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 (edited) not everyone is cut out to be spouse of a vicar or service member. There's a lot of strength & sacrifice involved. Aristo life would not prepare you for it. I don't think that last bit is necessarily true. If Amanda were to become the wife of an earl or duke or someone like that, she'd be expected to do a lot of service in the community: chairing committees, organizing town fêtes, etc. She might not be on call 24/7 like a minister's wife, but she would be expected to pull her weight in other ways. I wish I had a continuous loop of that baby's whooping cough to play on Facebook for all my anti-vaxxing friends and family. Ha! I was thinking, "This is what happens when you don't vaccinate, people!" This was the first episode where I felt Sidney was getting really close to being too good to be true. He's not a slut shamer, he listens to that newfangled jazz music, he has no trouble with people of other races and cultures, he'll perform the marriage service of the woman he has semi-unrequited love for, he's gay-friendly, he can control the weather...wait, not that last one. But you get the idea. I'd like to see his halo tarnished a bit. Edited February 9, 2015 by dubbel zout 1 Link to comment
alias1 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 This was the first episode where I felt Sidney was getting really close to being too good to be true. He's not a slut shamer, he listens to that newfangled jazz music, he has no trouble with people of other races and cultures, he'll perform the marriage service of the woman he has semi-unrequited love for, he's gay-friendly, he can control the weather...wait, not that last one. But you get the idea. I'd like to see his halo tarnished a bit. I thought the same thing. I love Sydney but he really was a little too perfect in this episode. I'm not sure, but it looked like that might change in the next episode. In the previews it looked like he might be apologizing for some indiscretion. Probably misleading, as previews often are. dubbel zout, you changed your picture! Link to comment
izabella February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 he'll perform the marriage service of the woman he has semi-unrequited love for, Ah, he's not that good! He flat out lied to Amanda and told her he couldn't get the approval from (some church authority) to perform the ceremony in their church (which is not Sydney's church). He actually had received the official approval, but told her he hadn't. So, he IS human after all! 1 Link to comment
dubbel zout February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) At the end he told Amanda there was a mixup with the archbishop and showed her the letter that gave him approval. He convinced himself to do the right thing with his sermon. SierraMist: It was time for a change. Edited February 10, 2015 by dubbel zout 1 Link to comment
magdalene February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I wish I had a continuous loop of that baby's whooping cough to play on Facebook for all my anti-vaxxing friends and family. Yes. I want these anti vaccination people to watch old film of Polio victims and then keep on blathering irrationally how bad vaccinations are. I don't think that Sidney is too good to be true. He is not that great of a Vicar when it comes to the mundane dealings of his profession - especially when there is a murder that interests him more. And then there is the Amanda and Hildegard situation which has the potential of ending in heart break for all parties. 1 Link to comment
LaChavalina February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Indeed, I thought Amanda/Guy were attending church in Grantchester now out of some obligation, since they were given dispensation to be married there. Amanda got on my nerves in this episode, but I can't warm to Hildegarde, either. I can't tell if I think she'd miscast, or just not well-developed as a character. Link to comment
magdalene February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 He has also shown a slight problem with alcohol, Maybe more than a slight problem going by how he acted when he tried to go without? I don't think there is much heart break in the Amanda/Hildegard situation unless Amanda is more in love with Sidney than she has shown so far. I was thinking more along the lines of Sidney hurting Hildegard's feelings. We know he is trying to move on and we know he likes Hildegard. But I am not a 100% convinced that Sidney is totally ready to let go of Amanda. What if Amanda jilted her fiance and suddenly became available while Sidney is courting Hildegard? Link to comment
alias1 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 The actress that plays Hildegard does this weird thing where she looks at Sydney sideways instead of face to face. I found that distracting, along with the very red lipstick. I don't remember either of those things from when she was in the first episode. Maybe I'm not remembering it well. Link to comment
zxy556575 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) Amanda got on my nerves in this episode, but I can't warm to Hildegarde, either. I can't tell if I think she'd miscast, or just not well-developed as a character. Hildegard's indeterminate accent sure seems to come and go. Eh, just looked her up and the actress, Pheline Roggan, is German. Joke's on me, then! Edited February 10, 2015 by lordonia Link to comment
izabella February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 (edited) At the end he told Amanda there was a mixup with the archbishop and showed her the letter that gave him approval. He convinced himself to do the right thing with his sermon. Oh, I must have missed that, and now I'm truly disappointed! I had been so happy that he chosen not to do it. Rats. Edited February 10, 2015 by izabella Link to comment
Lillybee February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Am I wrong for wanting to slap Amanda back a few years.? I see nothing redeeming about her character. 2 Link to comment
dcalley February 10, 2015 Author Share February 10, 2015 The woman at the end that Leonard was talking to - could anyone tell if that was Ben's "girlfriend". I can't decide if he was trying to counsel her through a difficult time or he was on a date himself. For Leonard, hopefully the former. I thought that was the church organist that liked Leonard and was complimenting him for his response to the fire, where he responded that all he did was fall over while making a phone call. Oh, I hadn't noticed she was the organist. I did know that she was the one who brought Leonard and Ben tea post-fire. I think she definitely likes him and that Leonard was more interested in Ben. Link to comment
attica February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Leonard and Ben shared that very charged moment after the fire, quoting Thomas and all. Even if we hadn't heard from Daphne, that moment would have sealed it for me re: Leonard's orientation. Poetry: every show's shorthand about Teh Sex. 3 Link to comment
seacliffsal February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I don't often really buy into t.v. relationships, but I totally love Sidney and Hildegaard together. The way he looks at her just makes me smile. I really like this actor as he draws me into his story and his emotions. I thought this episode was excellent-especially as it explored 1950s perspectives. Amanda? Go away. 1 Link to comment
Cranston February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 I've warmed to everybody, even Amanda a very teeny bit, except Hildegarde. As has been suggested here earlier...she may be simply miscast. She doesn't match Sidney. And the way she sideways looks at him, with that sappy smile, is ugh. Link to comment
magdalene February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 (edited) Funny, I thought they made a handsome couple To be shallow for a moment they are both so slim and tall. They could be fashion models. I found this website about fictional clerical detectives - it gives you the entire story line for Canon Sidney Chambers so far three books in. Kind of like a cliffs notes version of the books. http://detecs.org/chambers.html Edited February 11, 2015 by magdalene 1 Link to comment
izabella February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 I haven't warmed to Hildegard yet, either. I think it's because she's an outsider, and stands out as such. She's also reserved, so I don't have much of a read on her personality. Is she genuine? Is she a schemer? Is she a secret mean girl? Does she rescue starving puppies in her spare time? Link to comment
attica February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 could be fashion models Could be. Maybe so. 1 Link to comment
dubbel zout February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 He has a wide range of facial expressions, no? Link to comment
JudyObscure February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 I think the ability to glower for hours at a time must be the number one requirement for models of both sexes. I tell them their faces are going to stick that way and they just don't care. 2 Link to comment
attica February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 That's true! I think the theory is that having anything but a neutral expression makes the viewer think of the human and not the clothing. Why everybody buys into that is a mystery. (I for one would be more apt to buy a frock if the model looked excited to be wearing it.) 2 Link to comment
magdalene February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 You are welcome, whimsey98. I couldn't resist and read the whole thing. We don't really know whether they will stick totally to the books on the show and I for one really do not want to see Dickens die of old age on TV. I am one of those people who gets attached to fictional pets. 2 Link to comment
ComeWhatMay February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) We don't really know whether they will stick totally to the books on the show... Is it wrong to say I hope they don't -- at least not verbatim? I couldn't resist either & I already see differences? I would like to be surprised by events along the way -- not saying major things cannot ultimately turn out the same as to totally go against the books probably would be an issue. I am also in no hurry for age progression make-up on Norton or Green, etc. or to miss out on any element of the rich PTSD story they have going with Chambers/Norton. I was always sorry Downton Abbey never got to do one with Matthew. It's a relevant topic that a lot of shows aren't willing to devote more than a one off episode to before its on to the next thing. Edited February 12, 2015 by ComeWhatMay 1 Link to comment
dubbel zout February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 I wish they could keep Dickens a puppy forever, but that's probably too expensive. Link to comment
Kohola3 February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 He has a wide range of facial expressions, no? Now look sexy. (Glower) Click. Now look happy. (Glower) Click. Now look sad. (Glower) Click. Now look wistful. (Glower). Click. Now look...... 1 Link to comment
magdalene February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 PBS had a video about Dickens. They had originally intended to use different age puppies for the blocks of filming but Dickens, which is his real life name by the way, grew so fast that they used him for the entire first season filming. Obviously he is a natural talent and the camera loves him, heh. 3 Link to comment
AllAboutMBTV February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 Slightly OT: Sidney and Mrs. Maguire together again. (Hat tip to Norton and his Twitter account.) 1 Link to comment
albaniantv February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Resisted this at first since I haven't liked other mystery workers of the cloth, but am coming around. Every once in a while something seems badly done just for dramatic effect --would a housekeeper really feel so free to be rude to her employer's guests, especially when theoretically anyone could walk through the door needing ministry? Would an urbane, well spoken detective all of a sudden turn into a violent lout because he was afraid to go home to a deathly ill child? And, I am a bit worried now that Dickens has had his "Timmy's in the well" moment, he might disappear. It's easier for me now that I have found Vera, who just started appearing Thursday nights on PBS in Northern California. Her vinegar seems the perfect balance to all the sugar on Grantchester. Link to comment
TrininisaScorp February 15, 2015 Share February 15, 2015 (edited) Personally, I got a mean girl bit of happy when Amanda seemed put out at the expression on Sidney's face when he looked at Hildegard. Heh. Clearly, I'm still not feeling Amanda. I'd like to see if Sidney/Hildegard goes somewhere, as I find there to be chemistry between the actors. I appreciated him standing up to Mrs. Maguire regarding treating her poorly because she's German b/c she was well out of line. I continue to have the most appreciation for the relationship between Sidney and Geordie. I liked that Sidney kept on Geordie about going home to be there for his wife and children. IMO, that's lovely friendship: Having the courage to share your two cents about the "right thing to do" (your perspective) if you think it is going to help your friend in the long run. Glad to see Sidney understands his issue with the drink, but I doubt he connects it to the PTSD. I do very much like Sidney. He fondly reminds me of Hathaway from Inspector Lewis and I like that. I like Leonard a great deal. He seems like such a sweet guy. His first sermon (Sidney really should have helped him out) was hilariously bad. Glad to see he turned it around later. (shallow) James Norton gets hotter and hotter. Hair color be damned. (/shallow) Edited February 15, 2015 by TrininisaScorp 6 Link to comment
dubbel zout February 15, 2015 Share February 15, 2015 Glad to see Sidney understands his issue with the drink, but I doubt he connects it to the PTSD. I think he does connect the two, but he hasn't found anything that works better than drink. I think he's pragmatic enough to realize that he can't just pray the problem away, much as he'd like to. I appreciate that aspect. He's committed to his work but he isn't a blind believer. He wrestles with his faith and how to put it into practice like a lot of people do. That saves him from being a complete Gary Stu. 6 Link to comment
dargosmydaddy February 15, 2015 Share February 15, 2015 Just caught up on the first four episodes, and I am in love with this show! So sad there's only two episodes left. Link to comment
ComeWhatMay February 15, 2015 Share February 15, 2015 "Crime - Women - Drinking" With apologies to Ms. Maguire, I have not had near enough of it. So glad it will be back for another series. I do lament the shorter length of the British imports on my program schedule -- all the while believing it aids the quality of the programs & keeps others from pulling a Dan Stevens & mucking up the works. James Norton could definitely make a go of it here if he wanted to, but seems from interviews as though he knows not to burn bridges at home. Something to thank Stevens for, ironically. I find myself softening toward Amanda after my prior harshness regarding her stuffing. Some of the BTS stuff I have seen (interviews) is playing a role. My mother was 19 in 1953 -- it really was a world ago. It was not on to disregard your parents wishes & you did not have near as much company in doing so as you do today. Add in the motherless brothers & Amanda could/would be seen as selfish to toss it all for Sidney. Sidney would be for her, Guy is for everybody else. Guy's false charm & graces -- while clearly stewing off to the side as Amanda chatted with Sidney -- leaves me cold, but I do like Hildegard. Too much to see her as a clear second choice, which to me, is what she is portrayed as now. Something I found interesting... Amanda unwittingly helped Sidney with what today would be known as a service dog -- Guy brings fireworks for the engagement party. Fireworks can trigger PTSD episodes. Asking Sidney to marry him & Amanda? All smiles while he kicks Sidney -- & really Amanda too -- in the teeth. Another Lillian. Hard to imagine how this marriage will be any happier even if Sidney & Amanda are not William & Daphne. 1 Link to comment
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