S01.E10: Progeny

[benteen]

Rip is such an awful time traveler and so are the rest of the team.  I completely agree with not killing the kid but definitely maroon him.

 

Still, I liked this episode.

[Sakura12]

I'm kind of wondering if they left Per Degaton alive to be another villain they have to face. His comic character was obsessed with time travel and the LoT crew just gave him a push towards that. He could've believed Rip that Vandal will betray him at some point and he prevents that by finding a way to travel through time.  Or maybe that kid just had a more threatening presence than Vandal Savage. 

 

It's interesting to me that Sara never really gave her opinion on whether or not to kill the kid. Not until they already kidnapped him. I do like that she wants to believe people can change for her own sake. She wants to believe she's not always going to be a killer. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by Sakura12

[MissLucas]

But besides that, I guess this plot was to show the team grappling with (or more like talking about) a moral dilemma? I wasn't impressed. I knew Rip wasn't going to kill the kid; but the real problem was that they said the kidnapping* didn't even change the future much at all - so why would killing him do anything different? From that point, shouldn't they have started to tackle the problem from another angle? And then they just made the situation worse in the end. Great.

Thank you! The already fragile logic of the whole episode crumbled to dust the moment Gideon revealed that removing the kid from the timeline wasn't changing anything. At that point they should have given him a stern talking to (hey, you gotta try at least) and then send him back.

 

And then try to come up with a better plan - like taking out the lab that concocted the Doomsday virus.  That may or may not have changed anything but at least they would not have looked like morons who made things even worse by not thinking things through. I sort of appreciate that they're such horrible time travelers but failures lose tragic impact when they're not so much caused by fate than by idiocy and incompetence.

 

That said - I still love the characters, their interactions make up for a lot of plot inconsistencies.

[NorthstarATL]

Kendra: "Oh, Ray, how could I ever think less of you?" Indeed. I hope next week the team incorrectly targets Randall Savage and makes a mess of the West.

[wayne67]

Honestly at this point I'm siding with the Time Police that Rip being so emotionally invested is making things worse for everyone and everything. 

 

As for the mini mass murderer they should have just ditched him once they found out that kidnapping him had no effect whatsoever. I knew none of them would do the cold rational thing and execute the teenager in cold blood. Heatwave dude switching allegiances again for the third time in as many episodes is making me annoyed at the team for wanting him on board in the first place. Apparently life times of mental manipulation and training has no chance against a minute of fist fighting...

 

The flashbacks were annoying and pointless. We already knew Kendra had past lives/loves with what's his face. STILL DON'T CARE. Now all I want is for Ray to jump ship on that budding relationship and be done with Kendra because it really feels like she's stringing him along because she's lonely rather than having an actual interest in a future with Ray.

 

The plot was awful as usual and I'm starting to hate the characters. I'm going to give this show one more episode then I'll probably stop watching.  

[tessaray]

I know they said Patrick J Adams was playing a beloved superhero on LoT next season but watching this episode, I kept thinking that this kid would have made a good young Mike Ross physically.  Just saying...   

[henripootel]

I suspect that either the team is going to defeat Vandal in Rip's time and he will have to accept the loss of his wife and son or the team will defeat Savage in 2016 and so radically alter the timeline in the process that Rip never meets his wife and his son is never born.

I think you're right but then Rip, to save his wife and son, might make it so that they never existed in the first place.  This is a wholly-reasonable side effect of changing time lines but who'd actually choose it?  At least his loved ones got a few years of actual life, this way they get nothing.  Nice planning there, Rip.

I completely agree with not killing the kid but definitely maroon him.

No reason to kill or even strand him somewhere terrible.  If we're to believe the 'big man' theory on history here (that removing one hugely bad apple changes everything), just grab the kid as an infant and take him to 1975.  While you're at it, go back and grab baby Vandal Savage, raise them both in a nice home in Nebraska, make sure they have good influences and solid career paths.  Per Degaton ends up a software developer and Savage manages a Taco Bell, menacingly, or ended up wresting under the name 'Macho Man'.  Either way, nobody died or stranded on Pluto.  Start thinking like a guy with a time machine, Rip.

Edited April 10, 2016 by henripootel

[Cthulhudrew]

I've got to say, as much as Rip Hunter sucks as a time traveler, with all the screwups and apparent lack of knowledge of time travel he has (though he and the writers espouse otherwise), the Time Masters pretty much suck just as badly for not being able to do a better job of stopping him. At this point, I believe the Council of Time Masters is really just a bunch of Doctor Who geeks in the future who got a hold of some time machines and made this fanclub with a lot of ritual and pomp but with no actual technical or chronological know-how to support any of it.

[spaulding]

Except for Sara, nobody deserves to be a Legend. 

 

Kendra has the most boring storyline.  While the team is trying to do something, she's in her room and is thinking about Carter.  And Carter was boring because his storyline was about how much he loves her.  Relationships are the worst.

 

I'm surprised that Ray's immediate assumption was that he fathered a child in 2016 and left him.  I assumed that he would survive the mission and would have a family. 

 

Savage knows where the cloaked ship is; I'll assume because he can sense Kendra.  I was distracted by his version of O. Rex.

 

I'm glad that Mick and Cold hugged it out.  Purcell is really good in the episode and shows how perceptive Mick is.  If they're not on LOT for S2, I still want them to cause trouble in Central City; and if they beat the crap out of Barry, I wouldn't be unhappy.

 

Sara facilities Mick and Cold's relationship.  Is there anything she can't do?

 

Ha! I love the Cold Canary moment.  If they're doing it, at least let me be a voyeur to it. 

 

If it wasn't for Sara, Cold, and Mick, I would be on Team Baby Hitler.  Rip is the worst.  He's willing to sacrifice a minor who hasn't done anything to save his son.  Yeah, Rip, tell me again how it's not about your boring family.  He is so damn insufferable and has absolutely no credibility about the purpose of this mission.  And he's a terrible Time Master.

 

When he couldn't kill Baby Hitler, it doesn't make him noble or heroic. 

 

Is it bad that I was on the side of Rip and Snart to kill the kid? Because I do believe that killing a mini Hitler isn't the worst thing, especially if it saves billions of lives. Of course, that could backfire with an even worse mini Hitler being born, but the reasons for killing Per Snickety...I mean Degaton, are pretty valid. I was annoyed with Stein who insisted that they couldn't kill the kid because he's a kid and because Rip's reasons are just to save his own son. I don't know; even though Gideon said that Savage still would have taken over the world, I would think killing the kid would save at least half the lives that would have been killed right away. Honestly, Stein can shove his self righteousness somewhere else, because as much as I like him, this episode he was just annoying.

 

I didn't like Stein in the beginning because he was self-righteous, but he and Jax are right.  Baby Hitler is a minor who hasn't done anything.  

 

Rip is willing to believe that Sara and Mick can be redeemed.  Why can't this kid be redeemed?  He's still young and impressionable.  He assumingly has a mother, and he was dreaming of baking cookies with her.  His father doesn't seem like Adult Hitler.  Get Savage away from the kid and see what happens.

 

Rip is too lazy to try anything different.  Killing or kidnapping.  He could have taken the kid into the future to show him that Savage kills him.  He could have taken the kid and his mother to a distant place/time to live.  He could have figured out how to stop the kid from creating a Doomsday Virus.  There are lots of ways to neutralize this kid without killing or kidnapping him.

 

Also, he has 4000 years to stop Savage.  He didn't have to travel to this time to kill a minor.  A lot of steps in 4000 years have to be taken for Savage to rise to power.

 

Furthermore, with each time that the team visits, Savage still rises to power.  Same here.  Kidnapping Baby Hitler didn't stop Savage's rise to power.  So killing/kidnapping him is not a panacea. 

 

Sounds like Savage's rise to power is the de facto timeline.  Everything the team tries doesn't stop Savage.  Here, take the kid out of the equation by kidnapping, and Savage still rises to power.  Maybe Savage doesn't need the kid's Doomsday Virus or accesses it without help from him. 

 

Savage's timeline seems to be the one that's immutable, i.e., his timeline self-corrects to ensure that he rises to power.  It doesn't necessarily mean that the kid's timeline can't be changed.  Or that the kid can't be changed. 

 

Vandal Savage and the kid were right--these guys are weak and ineffective (especially Rip).

 

Yup, Rip is ineffective and an idiot.  He shows himself to be weak on Baby Hitler's terms.  Rip's actions expedites Savage's timeline.

Edited April 10, 2016 by spaulding

[jhlipton]

He assumingly has a mother, and he was dreaming of baking cookies with her.

 

Is that what the kids are calling it these days?  (Not often you get to make a Jacasta joke!)

[MissLucas]

Rip is willing to believe that Sara and Mick can be redeemed.  Why can't this kid be redeemed?  He's still young and impressionable.  He assumingly has a mother, and he was dreaming of baking cookies with her.  His father doesn't seem like Adult Hitler.  Get Savage away from the kid and see what happens.

 

Rip is too lazy to try anything different.  Killing or kidnapping.  He could have taken the kid into the future to show him that Savage kills him.  He could have taken the kid and his mother to a distant place/time to live.  He could have figured out how to stop the kid from creating a Doomsday Virus.  There are lots of ways to neutralize this kid without killing or kidnapping him.

 

I think the writers just have a list of time travel plots they need to cover and this week it was a variant on the 'Kill Hitler' trope (customary warning: this is a link to TV trope, click at your own risk), so all the more sensible choices the team had in order to deal with this situation were just being ignored in order to have a philosophical debate among the team members (exc. Kendra) on the morality of killing a kid.

[BkWurm1]

I didn't like Stein in the beginning because he was self-righteous, but he and Jax are right.  Baby Hitler is a minor who hasn't done anything.

 

But they knew for certain in just five years he was responsible for millions of deaths.  Maybe that is what they should have done, skipped ahead to right when he was taking power and in a position to give the kill order.  Maybe they should have gone after the version that was pretty much a sure thing (being evil I mean) rather than the teen ager that felt like a lost cause but was just young enough for them to live on hope.  Had Rip brought them to the day before Per Degaton took power and planned to kill everyone, I don't think anyone would have hesitated to kill him. 

[Potanical Pardon]

If we're picking a new leader, I'd vote for the real Rip Hunter. The show's Rip Hunter acts 1000000x more like Waverider. Rip Hunter is the cooler name and I get the Dr. Who thing they're going for, but seriously, the guy on this show should be named Waverider, not just a nod to the ship's name. Even Jonas and his mom...that whole story works better with Waverider's original identity, Matthew Ryder, and his wife Liri Lee. Rip Hunter should be a dude who's entire mission and goal is to preserve the timeline, even time-hop and muck around with time in order to fix time anomolies...which seems like the Time Masters MO. He's supposed to have a teacher/master vibe to him, hard-ass, but with quiet alone moments that show you he has a heart. And he would most definitely have not had a problem with killing teen Per Degaton. 

 

I love the character on the show who is Rip. I think it's important for such a character to exist on the show. He just shouldn't be in charge nor have that name. He, like Waverider, has this exact character arc of learning why it's such a bad and terrible idea to screw around with time like he has been based on emotion even when you think you're going to do it to be a hero, save lives, society, with acceptable alterations to a timeline. It's supposed to lead to him being the definitive Time Master...the one all the bad guys and future people on this show talk about being so awesome at what he does.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Legends Of Tomorrow Take On An Heir Apparent
And one among them has to decide if he can stomach killing the kid.

[Starfish35]

I think this might have been my least favorite episode yet. There was some interesting character moments, but the main plot of the episode totally bored me. They really need to start writing smarter. Right now I'm holding on by virtue of my love for the characters and their interactions, but that's not going to hold me forever.

What was good - the Snart/Mick/Sara stuff. Also, I don't know where they're going with Ray/Kendra, but if it's Ray/Kendra vs Carter/Kendra, I'm always going to be on "Team Ray" so to speak. The actor that plays Carter is just the worst. :(

[MissLucas]

What makes me really uncomfortable about the whole Kendra/Ray vs. Kendra/Carter love triangle is that once again comic book canon seems to take over a show's narrative (s. the current discussion in the Arrow forum). I don't know much about the Hawk-people and their myth so I'm not sure where this is going to. But there was a reason they brought Carter back in the flashback (btw. how odd was it that the flashback took place at almost the same time-period Ray and Kendra's pretend-marriage took place). I liked the idea that Kendra was willing to break free from the cycle and for once chose her partner but I don't trust the show-runners that they won't go the Destiny!calls!-route and put us through a frustrating love-triangle nobody really wants to see.

[Starfish35]

I liked the idea that Kendra was willing to break free from the cycle and for once chose her partner but I don't trust the show-runners that they won't go the Destiny!calls!-route and put us through a frustrating love-triangle nobody really wants to see.

Agreed.

[Sakura12]

If we get a choice between Kendra/Ray or Kendra/Carter. Then I'm team Ray too. Carter is block of wood. I don't think many people even missed seeing him. CR is not that great of an actress, putting both of them together is like watching two blocks of wood make out. At least with Ray one of them as a personality. 

 

The Carter/Kendra scene was in the 1920's. Kendra, Ray and Sara were in 1958. 

 

Great character interaction can keep me tuning in forever no matter how dumb the plot gets. 

[henripootel]

Great character interaction can keep me tuning in forever no matter how dumb the plot gets.

Let me know when you see some - zing!  But seriously, the only great interactions I've seen on this show are A) Hot and Cold, and B) whomever Victor Garber is talking to.  Not an Arrow guy so I have nothing there to compare with, but there's nothing here approaching Barry Allen's relationship with his step-dad (sorry - adopted dad).  I agree that strong character relationships can carry the day when all else fails but that's a big part of my problem with this show - all else is failing.  

Edited April 11, 2016 by henripootel

[Sakura12]

I dropped the Flash because I find it boring so I can't comment on that. 

 

For this show I love the interactions between Leonard, Sara and Mick. I liked the interaction between Mick and Ray. I'm starting to like the interactions between Stein and Jax and Sara and Jax. Stein and Sara are great too. Rip's okay, he should just not be Captain of the team. Kendra is basically the one that is not working for me. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

Barry Allen's step dad? Oh his adopted dad? LOL I think Joe needs to die. I actually like him but he's keeping Barry a child and making sure people remember that Iris and Barry are kind of siblings. Imo. Flash has very little that is interesting to me beyond Barry. Barry is the only one I really enjoy. I love Sara and Cold&Heat. I like Rip and Jax and Stein though I wouldn't mind Firestorm deciding to change it's superhero name. Ray is good some times with potential. Kendra I hope goes with Vandal. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by tarotx

[henripootel]

Barry Allen's step dad? Oh his adopted dad?

Oops - fixed.  Seriously, I'd watch a show just of Joe giving Barry dating advice or even working crime scenes.  I don't doubt for a second that they've known each other forever and genuinely love each other.  Which is odd because I kinda can't say the same for Barry and Iris, who are supposed to be MFEO and all that.  

Kendra is basically the one that is not working for me.

Agreed.  Problem is she pulls down pretty much everyone she appears with.  Ray is borderline for me but them together is snooze-worthy.  I really want to like these characters more but they are not making it easy.  

Edited April 11, 2016 by henripootel

[nksarmi]

Let me know when you see some - zing!  But seriously, the only great interactions I've seen on this show are A) Hot and Cold, and B) whomever Victor Garber is talking to.  Not an Arrow guy so I have nothing there to compare with, but there's nothing here approaching Barry Allen's relationship with his step-dad (sorry - adopted dad).  I agree that strong character relationships can carry the day when all else fails but that's a big part of my problem with this show - all else is failing.  

 

Thank the television gods that nothing on this show compares to Barry and Joe on Flash!  I like Barry and I like Joe and I love Jesse Martin - but that relationship dominates every. single. aspect. of that show!  It's too much.  It's stifles Barry's relationship with pretty much everyone else - most importantly Iris. 

 

Legends has really good characters interactions with ALL the characters and manages to use different pairings to deepen our view and understanding of each character.  That is HUGE strength and for me - it far outweighs any plot contrivance I have to hand wave away for why they didn't try the same thing five years earlier or later. 

 

Legends has some areas where it can improve and I hope they do in season two, but I think it's getting some pretty important things right already.

[Sakura12]

The Legends haven't known each other forever, they all just met. Except for Cold and Heatwave. I'm liking getting to see them get to know each other and learn from each other. Seeing Captain Cold's crush on Sara is fun for me, because we never got to see that side of Cold on the Flash.

 

On the Flash everything has to be about Barry. Barry and Joe take up way too much of the show. It's like Iris doesn't even have a dad, he's just Barry's. I liked Barry in season 1 and I liked him on Supergirl. I can't stand Season 2 Barry. I also am not a fan of people running around calling themselves heroes, just be one. 

 

The Legends are interesting because most of them are not heroes and barely know what they are doing. It's a different kind of super hero show. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Sakura12

[MissLucas]

 

The Carter/Kendra scene was in the 1920's. Kendra, Ray and Sara were in 1958.

My bad - I wasn't being paying enough attention to what was going in the flashbacks, sorry. I just thought it weird that after all the discussions about how much it must have sucked for Kendra to be trapped in 1958 in a mixed marriage we get an almost similar scenario with Carter.

[Krazykate58]

I , just thought I would post my take on the episode. As far  as killing Per went, I don't think any of them could have done it, no matter what the boy grew up to be. It's not that none of them have never killed before but Per was a kid and most people, are hard wired to protect kids. Only a monster like V.S. would kill a kid. Kendra's flash backs looked to me, I may be wrong, like time filler. Ray's maybe being a father and the angst he was having over it only showed one again  that Ray is a good man, or tries to be.    Rip's angst over Per and in the end not killing the boy showed that Rip may  not be a cold as he thinks he is. I loved the scene where Rip all most calls Sara his assistant the changes it to body guard. Having Mick and Leonard beat the crap out of each other was inspired. 

All in all I thought this episode could have been better  but it could all so have been worse. And as for trying to kill V.S. if it was me I would just bury the SOB alive in several feet of concrete. Won't kill him but it will keep him from causing trouble till he digs him self out in lets say 100 or so years. 

[nksarmi]

I , just thought I would post my take on the episode. As far  as killing Per went, I don't think any of them could have done it, no matter what the boy grew up to be. It's not that none of them have never killed before but Per was a kid and most people, are hard wired to protect kids. Only a monster like V.S. would kill a kid. Kendra's flash backs looked to me, I may be wrong, like time filler. Ray's maybe being a father and the angst he was having over it only showed one again  that Ray is a good man, or tries to be.    Rip's angst over Per and in the end not killing the boy showed that Rip may  not be a cold as he thinks he is. I loved the scene where Rip all most calls Sara his assistant the changes it to body guard. Having Mick and Leonard beat the crap out of each other was inspired. 

All in all I thought this episode could have been better  but it could all so have been worse. And as for trying to kill V.S. if it was me I would just bury the SOB alive in several feet of concrete. Won't kill him but it will keep him from causing trouble till he digs him self out in lets say 100 or so years. 

 

They kind of tried that on True Blood and it is definitely problematic if someone digs the crazy ass out early.

[Sakura12]

We know Savage as followers, so someone would most likely find him and dig him out. 

 

On that note, they should've made most of the season about fighting Savage's followers. Instead of keep letting him get away. They could see him but couldn't get to him because his followers would show up and they had to fight them while he got away or something. Or are they killing him and he resurrects somewhere else? They haven't explained how Savage works? They should've figured out that first and let us know. It would've helped the team look less inept. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Sakura12

[spaulding]

Is that what the kids are calling it these days?  (Not often you get to make a Jacasta joke!)

 

Ack.  Now, I want to blind myself. 

 

I think the writers just have a list of time travel plots they need to cover and this week it was a variant on the 'Kill Hitler' trope (customary warning: this is a link to TV trope, click at your own risk), so all the more sensible choices the team had in order to deal with this situation were just being ignored in order to have a philosophical debate among the team members (exc. Kendra) on the morality of killing a kid.

 

I agree.  It's the thing to do with time traveling shows.  This show needs to learn from Futurama: you try to get rid of Hitler, and you end up killing Eleanor Roosevelt. 

 

And I'm irritated that Rip leaves time in such a mess.  They're leaving Kasnia, but they accelerated Savage's timeline.  Now, they're heading off to another time/place to try to fix what happened by doing the same thing again. 

 

But they knew for certain in just five years he was responsible for millions of deaths.  Maybe that is what they should have done, skipped ahead to right when he was taking power and in a position to give the kill order.  Maybe they should have gone after the version that was pretty much a sure thing (being evil I mean) rather than the teen ager that felt like a lost cause but was just young enough for them to live on hope.  Had Rip brought them to the day before Per Degaton took power and planned to kill everyone, I don't think anyone would have hesitated to kill him.

 

I'm OK with that.  I don't have a problem with stopping Baby Hitler when he's amassing power or right before he uses the Doomsday Virus.  Even now, I don't have a problem with putting him in prison for patricide and treason.

Edited April 13, 2016 by spaulding

[KirkB]

We know Savage as followers, so someone would most likely find him and dig him out.

On that note, they should've made most of the season about fighting Savage's followers. Instead of keep letting him get away. They could see him but couldn't get to him because his followers would show up and they had to fight them while he got away or something. Or are they killing him and he resurrects somewhere else? They haven't explained how Savage works? They should've figured out that first and let us know. It would've helped the team look less inept.

 

 

 

That's a great point, Sakura12. Rip said early on they don't know where Savage is most of the time, except for when he is at his strongest and thus is the least vulnerable. But this episode seemed to point out he and Gideon are able to find time periods and people who helped him in his rise. So if they can't get to Savage directly why didn't they focus instead on weakening or removing his power base, so even if the Immortal Boring is still around he won't be in a position to take over the world? Without his people and resources, wouldn't he be easier to capture?

[justjoan]

They did go after his money once, before they got distracted by recovering Carter's body. But then I guess they just... gave up on the idea? Why not try again, with a less haphazard plan?

[wayne67]

They did go after his money once, before they got distracted by recovering Carter's body. But then I guess they just... gave up on the idea? Why not try again, with a less haphazard plan?

 

Because trying to do something productive would be counter to their whacky fly by the seat of their pants mission planning in the field modus operandi.

[KirkB]

Maybe Rip is lying about more than we think and he is, in fact, working WITH Vandal Savage? He assembled the team to remove the roadblocks that are keeping VS from taking over? No, probably not. But given how bad Rip seems to be at...well, almost everything really, I have to wonder why the Time Masters hired him in the first place. On the other hand, I can kind of get why they're trying to stop him. It seems kind of like he and his people might be a bigger threat to the timeline than Savage.

[Ceindreadh]

I probably watched too much Hustle or Mission impossible, but I thought that instead of killing/kidnapping the kid, they should have gone after Savage instead. Not to assassinate him, but to assassinate his character. Fake some intel on him that shows what a bad guy he is, show it to Per's daddy and get Savage fired as tutor. 

Once he's out of the picture the kid might have had a chance 

[squidprincess]

On 4/14/2016 at 9:21 AM, KirkB said:

Maybe Rip is lying about more than we think and he is, in fact, working WITH Vandal Savage? He assembled the team to remove the roadblocks that are keeping VS from taking over? No, probably not. But given how bad Rip seems to be at...well, almost everything really, I have to wonder why the Time Masters hired him in the first place. On the other hand, I can kind of get why they're trying to stop him. It seems kind of like he and his people might be a bigger threat to the timeline than Savage.

Considering that Savage had already taken over before (...sorta.  In Rip's personal timeline anyway) Rip ever got the Legends together, that seems a bit unlikely.  All things considered, the Legends repaired most of their major screwups (which generally tended to happen because the team didn't listen to Rip/exposed themselves too early (Firestorm)/left behind future tech(Ray).)  The most substantial screw up was Per Degaton, but considering that Savage seemed to be engaged in mass murder and enjoying absolute power before that screw up...what's five years?

Rip working for Savage makes no real sense, because he could have just stayed home and watched the place burn.  It'd be a lot less personal stress for one thing.

[Sakura12]

I think this was the episode where the show started showing how much of a mess it was. Each episode has it's moments but the main plot is boring and illogical. 

I wonder if they were thinking of making Sara the Captain or if it just happened because they were starting to show signs that Sara was the better leader. Rip was always off by himself and only involved the team when he needed their skills while Sara was trying to get Mick and Leonard back on track and put the team back together. I think Sara going to talk to him like a person was when Mick decided he would follow Sara's lead. 

Carter and Kendra's story was boring as usual and a waste of time since we already knew about that lifetime. I forgot Jewel Staite was in this episode. I still miss Firefly. Also they gave Ray a twin brother but never mentioned him when we saw kid Ray in Season 3. Did they forget about him? 

The kid playing Per Degaton was able to portray someone much more threatening than Savage. It's too bad he didn't listen to Rip and killed his father and Savage and become the main villain. 

[Starfish35]

I’m running behind here....hopefully I can catch up this week.

Yeah this episode was boring.  I’m not sure I can even think of much to say about it.  Probably the only interesting thing that happened was Mick’s and Leonard’s fight.  

Ray has a brother, Stanley....twin, apparently?  Who is never ever mentioned again that I can recall.  Bizarre.

I continue to believe that Ciara Renee is not that bad of an actress, but they persisted in having her character bogged down in this dreary past-lives storyline.  I want to root for her and Ray when she says lines like “Carter is my past - you’re my future.”  But we all know how that turns out. 🙁

Edited November 11, 2019 by Starfish35

[scarynikki12]

The parts of the episode are interesting to me while the overall result is lackluster. I love Mick and Snart reconciling through fighting. I love Snart admitting (in his Snart way) of his feelings for Sara and her acknowledgment of them (in her Sara way) before bringing the focus back on to getting him to reconcile with Mick.