S03.E14: Watchdogs

[SocaShoe]

 

I also am not feeling Daisy or Lincoln, and Coulson is annoying me more and more. I used to like him, but since he has become the head of SHIELD, I just find him to be a terrible leader/boss. His decisions rarely seem to make any sense, and instead are based on how much he likes the individual. I'm not sure if this is on purpose, or if this is just another case of bad writing, where the writers can't decide whether he should be a cold, detached secret agent, or an overly indulgent, soft-hearted father.

 

So much this....Clark Gregg has recently said in interviews that he doesn't think Coulson is happy as the Director of Shield and I think that's true. If only Fury could come back, then Coulson could maybe return to the field. I think too, it would be good for other characters, like Daisy, to understand that Papa Coulson can't get you out of every mess and at some point, you will be punished for insubordination and generally breaking rules.  You would think that what happened to Bobbi and Hunter would serve as a warning, but it seems like the lesson went right over Daisy's head. I feel the show desperately needs someone who is one of the good guys  equal or more powerful than Coulson so that he doesn't have too much power. Then, maybe he would have to decide whether he treats Daisy like a daughter or like an agent. Or it wouldn't matter because this other person could do whatever SHIELD people do when one of them behaves badly. (Really, is there any real punishment other than a good talking to or death when SHIELD agents mess up?)

 

 

I can't tell if this is being done deliberately to show how immature and extreme she is (swinging quickly from one extreme to another), or if this is just another case of bad writing.

 

 

God I hope so, because at this point I honestly don't know if the writers want me to be cheering as she violates civil liberties and talks about how "chosen" she is or not. I hope it's not the former because her pontificating about how special she is just makes me want to quit the show.

 

Daisy...sigh....Some of the interviews have noted that she's acting like a teenager. And that would be fine if she was a teenager. The problem is that she is an adult and an agent - again, the show desperately needs to have someone call her on her impulsiveness, but I'm afraid that just won't happen because of her relationship with Coulson. I understand her point of view, and would like for her to grow a little through her experiences instead of seeing someone who seems to like her power too much and is always pissed off because Dad won't let her use the Secret Warriors. I think it's mostly the writing that's the issue, but doesn't Daisy rub a lot of people the wrong way in the comics as well?

 

[DeepPoet117]

 

I feel the show desperately needs someone who is one of the good guys  equal or more powerful than Coulson so that he doesn't have too much power.

 

I thought Mack made an awesome Director. I'd love it if Coulson stepped down and promoted Mack to the Director position.

[redfish]

What does that mean? Protect inhumans from being persecuted? Protect people from inhumans? Protect the U.S.'s interest in using inhumans as a military resource? Prevent other countries from doing the same? Prevent the U.S. from using inhumans as a military resource? Horde alien technology? Make alien technology available to the world for industrial development? Make it available only to the U.S. military? Act "ethically" in each crisis as it comes up?

 

Back when SHIELD was a big government agency on par with the CIA and NSA, it made sense because SHIELD acted within the government structure and you could have some faith that you were working for the U.S. government and its policy as set by the elected civilians. It became unmoored from that while fighting Hydra. During that fight, it's actions still made sense. Now, when SHIELD is working as a semi-recognized government agency without structures around it? It needs to figure out what they are trying to accomplish and why.

 

 

Right! I mean when I first heard about SHIELD being on TV, I thought it would be Marvel U/superhero version of X-files. They would be the branch of the govt that dealt with the "situation" like meta human like crisis just like how the military is split into army/marine/air force/navy.

 

Now it seems scattered rebooting itself to be whatever the previous reboots failed to do.

 

Also, Blake's intel is faulty (but since it's Hydra that's feeding him it no wonder) the Avengers didn't create Ultron, it was Stark behind the back of the team. And how in the world did the public know about who created Ultron? And really classy show by stacking the deck of the Civil War lead up making the anti group seem like ignorant wack jobs and easily manipulated by Hydra.

[TVSpectator]

I thought Mack made an awesome Director. I'd love it if Coulson stepped down and promoted Mack to the Director position.

 

I think they tried that with the Gonzoles/Real SHIELD story arch and it barely survived a few episodes. And let's remember, that Gonzales rightly and justifiably pointed out to Coulson,  (IMO, in a none-douchy way) that going to see Jiayang would be a bad idea because he was/is close to Skye/Daisy and all he got for his trouble was (what looked like to me) was a painful death (and I am not blaming Coulson for his death, but the writing for not exploring this storyline further). Then they introduced Rosalind, who pointed out why regular humans would be afraid of the Inhumans to Daisy, and a few episodes later she was shot in the neck. So, it seems that anyone who could be a reasonable voice (or at least, a voice that isn't considered to be a xenophobic space racist/Hydra) usually gets put on a bus. 

 

Now, it seems like in every TV show the main character(s) has to be proven right and usually are- they end up being right (because who doesn't want to see people being smart,etc...) but if they are setting up/showing the lead up to the Civil War (and fan theory is alive with that idea) then I think it would be nice to see both sides, that are both portrayed in a decent fashion (instead of insisting that one side is solely made up of idol racists, Hydra, xenophobic because they are either stupid and/or racists) and I do hope that Daisy at least gets yelled at for almost getting Fitz killed. 

Edited March 31, 2016 by TVSpectator

[kitlee625]

Right! I mean when I first heard about SHIELD being on TV, I thought it would be Marvel U/superhero version of X-files. They would be the branch of the govt that dealt with the "situation" like meta human like crisis just like how the military is split into army/marine/air force/navy.

 

Now it seems scattered rebooting itself to be whatever the previous reboots failed to do.

 

Also, Blake's intel is faulty (but since it's Hydra that's feeding him it no wonder) the Avengers didn't create Ultron, it was Stark behind the back of the team. And how in the world did the public know about who created Ultron? And really classy show by stacking the deck of the Civil War lead up making the anti group seem like ignorant wack jobs and easily manipulated by Hydra.

 

Now I really really wish that we were watching the X-Files version of SHIELD.

 

Yeah I was disappointed with how the Watchdogs turned out too. I really want SHIELD to go up against a more balanced adversary. I think it would be a nice way to address some of the shady aspects of SHIELD -- their questionable methods, questionable mission, and lack of jurisdiction other than their own self-righteousness (aside from their recent sanctioning by the US President of course). However, every time they've gone up against an adversary (Jiaying and the Inhumans, Olmos SHIELD, the ATCU, and now the Watchdogs), the conclusion has always been the same. SHIELD may be bad, but these guys are extra super duper bad and/or they're aligned with Hydra and/or they're dead.

[AKA...CJ86]

Loved the Mac Family Values portion of the story...along with the prototype Shotgun-Axe!  I think Mac's been the season MVP, for me at least.

[MisterGlass]

 

He was the chief engineer on the SHIELD ship Edward James Olmos captained. So when he showed up at Coulson's SHIELD, it was a natural from his SHIELD employment history to make him their mechanic. Adding the agent stuff came later, and he really does hate it even though he's damn good at it.

 

Mack is an engineer, and while the ship was one of his postings, his backstory with Bobbie and Hunter made me think he spent quite a bit of time in the field before that.  He was very convincing when he was undercover in SHIELD working for Gonzales, even capturing Hunter and keeping him isolated when he would out to much.

 

ETA: Alphonse Mackenzie is a fantastic spy name.

Edited March 31, 2016 by MisterGlass

[Raja]

"That ain't no cook"

[teenj12]

I will never get the hate for Daisy. She certainly has faults (who doesn't?), but at the end of the day she does her best to do the right thing, and fix her mistakes. I'm pretty sure she feels a lot of guilt for the inhuman outbreak (which is not completely her fault), but all season long she's been actively trying to help others who have transformed and keep them safe from prosecution - whether that has been from the ATCU, Lash, and now the watch dogs. She's literally gone from homeless to hero, and I absolutely love that character development. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Agents Of SHIELD Brings The Guest Stars
All this time, Mack's brother was a high-school football star in Texas. Who knew, right?

[Raja]

I will never get the hate for Daisy. She certainly has faults (who doesn't?), but at the end of the day she does her best to do the right thing, and fix her mistakes. I'm pretty sure she feels a lot of guilt for the inhuman outbreak (which is not completely her fault), but all season long she's been actively trying to help others who have transformed and keep them safe from prosecution - whether that has been from the ATCU, Lash, and now the watch dogs. She's literally gone from homeless to hero, and I absolutely love that character development.

I don't think there is guilt, as the first working with the quasi government she has taken over from her mother as the leader. She is an Inhuman Magneto, who has both been a vilian but in my analogy was also the leader of the X-Men at different times

[thuganomics85]

Revolving Friday Night Lights cast, I see!  Right after Adrianne Palicki leaves, Gaius Charles shows up as Mack's brother!  I hope it's just the start.  Once The Family is canceled, maybe Zach Gilford can pop by.  Or maybe next seasons' big baddie will be played by Kyle Chandler, an Inhuman whose hair posses powers that everyone else can only dream of!

 

Glad to see Mack get the main focus on this one and I enjoyed his interactions with Ruben.  I think a lot of it explains why Mack has become the man he his now, and why he is a great fit for SHIELD.  I'm glad Ruben didn't end up dying for his mistakes, and I hope he now realizes that he was wrong to judge all Inhumans like he did earlier.  I wonder if this was an one-off thing, or if he'll make another appearance.

 

And, of course, shotgun-cleaver!  A good start to the shotgun-axe, which I still choose to believe will happen somewhere down the line!

 

I had recently wondered whatever happened to Felix Blake, so I'm glad he's back in the game and Titus Welliver continues to be awesome.  Of course, I'm not surprised to find out he and the Watch Dogs are really just being used by Malick and his ilk.  I'm guessing he has no clue, because he totally was getting under Inhuman Wo Fat's skin, when he called all of them "freaks."  I feel once Malick feels they outlived their usefulness, Inhuman Wo Fat will be sending a whole bunch of sharp items telepathically in Blake's direction.

 

A bit random that they finally get around to addressing Simmons guilt over letting Lash out, but at least this is leading towards her and May teaming up.  I have a feeling though that despite her words, Melinda will fail to kill Andrew, but that scene with Simmons shooting means she'll be the one that does it.  Or I could be wrong. After-all, I thought for sure she was going to be who killed Ward.

 

Oh, look.  Lincoln stuff with Coulson.  That was dull.

 

Poor Fitz.  But major credit for being as calm as he was about the entire thing.  I guess at this point, you have to roll with the punches, even if the punches are actually sticky bombs created by Howard Stark.

[rab01]

teenj12 - I don't have a problem with the character of Daisy. I have a problem with the way other characters treat her (e.g. Coulson treating her like a special snowflake) and I have problems with the actress (she's pretty but she doesn't make me feel like she has any interior take on the character - in other words, she's a little blank).  In the current crew, I think most of the actors are transcending their material a bit (except for Lincoln) but with Ward and Daisy, we get a little bit less than what the writers give them.

 

The only "characters" I currently dislike are Coulson (the description above of a middle manager promoted above his pay grade is perfect) and May (she's grim, self-righteous and preachy while also sometimes being hypocritical). Since I've liked both of them in the past, I hope they get written differently in the future. One last thing, Lincoln would be improved by making him the person who regularly deals with new inhumans.  It was supposedly his job for years in the hidden village so why not have him do it again?  Make Daisy be the one who has to make hard-headed calls about whether the new people will make it or need to be put down.  That would give them some plot-based conflicts and stuff to actually agonize about rather than mouthing crappy set-speeches.

[SocaShoe]

teenj12 - I don't have a problem with the character of Daisy. I have a problem with the way other characters treat her (e.g. Coulson treating her like a special snowflake) and I have problems with the actress (she's pretty but she doesn't make me feel like she has any interior take on the character - in other words, she's a little blank).  In the current crew, I think most of the actors are transcending their material a bit (except for Lincoln) but with Ward and Daisy, we get a little bit less than what the writers give them.

 

The only "characters" I currently dislike are Coulson (the description above of a middle manager promoted above his pay grade is perfect) and May (she's grim, self-righteous and preachy while also sometimes being hypocritical). Since I've liked both of them in the past, I hope they get written differently in the future. One last thing, Lincoln would be improved by making him the person who regularly deals with new inhumans.  It was supposedly his job for years in the hidden village so why not have him do it again?  Make Daisy be the one who has to make hard-headed calls about whether the new people will make it or need to be put down.  That would give them some plot-based conflicts and stuff to actually agonize about rather than mouthing crappy set-speeches.

Yes. And these problems become more obvious when the story calls for a focus on Daisy. I feel like the writers are screaming "Like her ! Like her!" Great, I'll like her when you give her something that shows real emotional growth and conflict. Then I can identify with her more.

[Cranberry]

When's the last time Coulson treated Daisy like a "special snowflake"? I agreed with that assessment in previous seasons (always liked Skye; always hated the "tell don't show" stuff from everyone else re: how great she is), but she and Coulson haven't even interacted much this season, have they?

[SocaShoe]

I don't know, maybe he makes her a snowflake by giving her a team after barely a year of being an Agent with very little oversight on that team. Because she's an inhuman she does have a perspective, but that makes her an asset and a potential leader but not one with experience.  He's more focused on Lincoln's issues than making sure the people he's "vetted" are doing what needs to be done. For instance, instead of just agreeing with her on the Watchdogs being a threat, he should have reprimanded her for disobeying orders and going off mission. It nearly got Fitz blown up and Mack ended up not having backup. They were lucky that the guard knew what little he did about the nitramene and the Watchdogs' target.

[DeepPoet117]

One last thing, Lincoln would be improved by making him the person who regularly deals with new inhumans.  It was supposedly his job for years in the hidden village so why not have him do it again?  Make Daisy be the one who has to make hard-headed calls about whether the new people will make it or need to be put down.  That would give them some plot-based conflicts and stuff to actually agonize about rather than mouthing crappy set-speeches.

 

Isn't that what they originally wanted him for in 3x01? To help Joey deal with his new Inhuman status? I like your idea. As I've said before, Lincoln works better when he's Dr. Lincoln not Agent Lincoln.

[Raja]

I don't know, maybe he makes her a snowflake by giving her a team after barely a year of being an Agent with very little oversight on that team. Because she's an inhuman she does have a perspective, but that makes her an asset and a potential leader but not one with experience.  He's more focused on Lincoln's issues than making sure the people he's "vetted" are doing what needs to be done. For instance, instead of just agreeing with her on the Watchdogs being a threat, he should have reprimanded her for disobeying orders and going off mission. It nearly got Fitz blown up and Mack ended up not having backup. They were lucky that the guard knew what little he did about the nitramene and the Watchdogs' target.

In Army terms she is a junior officer working her way up. Yes there are senior long service Sergeants around, in our case Mac and May, who know more at this point but that young "90 day wonder', "butter bar" Ensign, 2nd Lieutenant...is in the same position Daisy is in now and they all have their own Mac with vastly more operational experience who would be trusted more by the commander who serves to guide that young officer in their first leadership role.

[SocaShoe]

Yes.She is working her way up. So let her lead a mission or two. But a full on command and recruit your own team type gig? Coulson seems to be the only one who has input on how the team is run or who is on it. And he spends the most time vetting her boyfriend.So to me that makes him the lead officer.Mac may be the sergeant but she sees him as a partner. At some point, you do remind her of who is in charge, what the chain of command is and what her responsibility is as part of that chain. That to me, does fall to Coulson because he allows Daisy to have direct access to him. (I also do not think that kind of access is normal for someone of her rank.) And,we have seen Coulson dress down Ward, Fitz and Lincoln when he felt they screwed up. She should receive the same treatment when she makes a mistake...this has not happened. At the very least Daisy receives extra consideration from Coulson...heck, he did let her drive Lola.

Edited April 1, 2016 by SocaShoe

[rab01]

In Army terms she is a junior officer working her way up. Yes there are senior long service Sergeants around, in our case Mac and May, who know more at this point but that young "90 day wonder', "butter bar" Ensign, 2nd Lieutenant...is in the same position Daisy is in now and they all have their own Mac with vastly more operational experience who would be trusted more by the commander who serves to guide that young officer in their first leadership role.

I love this analogy. It doesn't quite work because Mack is a full-Bird Colonel,* not a Sergeant, but it's the only dynamic that makes Coulson's command structure decisions not insane. On this line of reasoning, Daisy gets to run this Op because it's not all that important.  Also, in this line of reasoning, Mack and May can probably order Daisy to stand down any time they feel that her decisions are too stupid. In this instance, I'm not sure that Daisy's decisions were the wrong ones and SHIELD really has to allow their agents a lot of operational ... flexibility ... so I'm not sure how pissed I would need Coulson to be.

 

* You don't give Sergeants command (even temporary) of the entire army.

[kitlee625]

Yes.She is working her way up. So let her lead a mission or two. But a full on command and recruit your own team type gig? Coulson seems to be the only one who has input on how the team is run or who is on it. And he spends the most time vetting her boyfriend.So to me that makes him the lead officer.Mac may be the sergeant but she sees him as a partner. At some point, you do remind her of who is in charge, what the chain of command is and what her responsibility is as part of that chain. That to me, does fall to Coulson because he allows Daisy to have direct access to him. (I also do not think that kind of access is normal for someone of her rank.) And,we have seen Coulson dress down Ward, Fitz and Lincoln when he felt they screwed up. She should receive the same treatment when she makes a mistake...this has not happened. At the very least Daisy receives extra consideration from Coulson...heck, he did let her drive Lola.

 

It was particularly striking in this most recent episode, where Coulson told Lincoln that Lincoln must show absolute loyalty and obedience to him no matter what. Daisy went against both Mack and Coulson in this episode, and this got Mack, his brother, and Fitz nearly killed. Yet, there's no consequences or even acknowledgement that she had disobeyed orders twice.

Edited April 1, 2016 by kitlee625

[Bishop]

It was particularly striking in this most recent episode, where Coulson told Lincoln that Lincoln must show absolute loyalty and obedience to him no matter what. Daisy went against both Mack and Coulson in this episode, and this got Mack, his brother, and Fitz nearly killed. Yet, there's no consequences or even acknowledgement that she had disobeyed orders twice.

That is exactly what I was going to say.  Coulson was lambasting Lincoln because he wasn't sure he was a team player and needed to be tested - which is a valid move on Coulson's part.  He should make sure new agents are up to snuff, but Daisy is the loose cannon.  She was cocky with her "I've got superpowers, look at me," and totally put her team at risk just so she could get the bad guys.  She is proving to me that she is horrible as a leader.  Even Fitz could see that she was out of control when she was basically threatening to use her abilities against the guy in the car - and she seemed to be enjoying it.  

 

I like the character of Lincoln just when he is not around Daisy.  The writers make it too smaltzy.  When he's with May or Coulson or any other character for that matter, he's allowed to BE a character and not Daisy's boy toy.  Let's hope the writers allow Lincoln to get fleshed out away from Daisy, although I do like that Lincoln doesn't tow the Daisy-line, meaning that he doesn't agree with her.  He doesn't believe that inhumans should embrace their "specialness."  He believes they should be able to choose if the vaccine Simmons is working on works.  Daisy believes that all inhumans should embrace their powers.  Like I said, she seems to be drinking the superpower kool-aid and not suffering any consequences.

 

I like Simmons and May teaming up and I am hoping that they can save Andrew.  I don't see why he can't be returned to his original form although Andrew may never be able to forgive himself for what he did to the inhumans.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Bishop

[Raja]

I love this analogy. It doesn't quite work because Mack is a full-Bird Colonel,* not a Sergeant, but it's the only dynamic that makes Coulson's command structure decisions not insane. On this line of reasoning, Daisy gets to run this Op because it's not all that important.  Also, in this line of reasoning, Mack and May can probably order Daisy to stand down any time they feel that her decisions are too stupid. In this instance, I'm not sure that Daisy's decisions were the wrong ones and SHIELD really has to allow their agents a lot of operational ... flexibility ... so I'm not sure how pissed I would need Coulson to be.

 

* You don't give Sergeants command (even temporary) of the entire army.

Or using the command structure of other nations a specialist officer like doctors, in Mac's case  as a ship's engineer/ "I'm a mechanic", versus a officer of the line and being like a special forces team in many cases a junior, Daisy in this case can be a tactical commander of those of higher rank as she is with her team which Mac. I understand that is how flight leadership is done in the IDF where a brand new pilot if he is the hottest stick will lead a flight with a long service Colonel as his wingman

[Bishop]

Isn't that what they originally wanted him for in 3x01? To help Joey deal with his new Inhuman status? I like your idea. As I've said before, Lincoln works better when he's Dr. Lincoln not Agent Lincoln.

Lincoln was great as a doctor and also as unwilling to want to be part of Shield.  I like that he didn't want to just be part of the super agents coalition.  He genuinely fears himself in some respects, and he doesn't embrace it the way Daisy does.  I think Lincoln would be a great character if the show focused on his doctor/science side but also allowed him to dabble as an agent.  Luke can pull it off.  I just think he comes off as more mature than Daisy, and so to have him be her subordinate, it just doesn't work for me.  Lincoln seems more grounded in his reasoning where Daisy comes off as more emotional and reacting in the heat of the moment.  Can Lincoln get emotional and "out of control" sometimes?  Sure, but it's not his "go-to" reaction the way I feel it is for Daisy.  The writers need to pull back on the Daisy/Lincoln pairing or just leave it as the "C" story.  I want Lincoln to spend more time with May, Coulson, Mack, Simmons, etc., and just allow the character to find his footing.  I thought he was good in the episode.

 

I didn't have a problem with Coulson.  I'm not sure what is upsetting other people because I like the character and his sarcasm.  I think the only thing that bothered me was that Daisy suffered no consequences for her actions in the episode by Coulson, but then I wondered - did he even know what happened?  I'm guessing Fitz never said a word.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Bishop

[MisterGlass]

 

Or using the command structure of other nations a specialist officer like doctors, in Mac's case  as a ship's engineer/ "I'm a mechanic", versus a officer of the line and being like a special forces team in many cases a junior, Daisy in this case can be a tactical commander of those of higher rank as she is with her team which Mac.

 

I like the analogy of Daisy as a young officer gaining command experience, but I believe in day to day operations Mac still out ranks her.  Mac is command staff; when Coulson temporarily surrendered command after the death of Rosalind, he chose Mac as temporary director.  This episode is an unusual situation because Mac is supposed to be on leave, and he is only contributing incidentally to the investigation rather than full time, and because his family becomes involved in a secondary way.

[Impish Dragon]

Completely shallow comment ahead...

 

Henry Simmons is a gorgeous man. 

 

 

I've known this for awhile now, but I watched the show in HD for the first time and it really hit home just how good-looking he is.

[benteen]

teenj12 - I don't have a problem with the character of Daisy. I have a problem with the way other characters treat her (e.g. Coulson treating her like a special snowflake) and I have problems with the actress (she's pretty but she doesn't make me feel like she has any interior take on the character - in other words, she's a little blank).  In the current crew, I think most of the actors are transcending their material a bit (except for Lincoln) but with Ward and Daisy, we get a little bit less than what the writers give them.

 

The only "characters" I currently dislike are Coulson (the description above of a middle manager promoted above his pay grade is perfect) and May (she's grim, self-righteous and preachy while also sometimes being hypocritical). Since I've liked both of them in the past, I hope they get written differently in the future. One last thing, Lincoln would be improved by making him the person who regularly deals with new inhumans.  It was supposedly his job for years in the hidden village so why not have him do it again?  Make Daisy be the one who has to make hard-headed calls about whether the new people will make it or need to be put down.  That would give them some plot-based conflicts and stuff to actually agonize about rather than mouthing crappy set-speeches.

 

I agree about May.  She's more grim than ever and the characters hypocrisy has been really annoying this season.  I like the character a lot too but she's become unbearable lately.

 

Coulson has been unbearable for a long time.

[blackwing]

I thought I was the only one that really despises Coulson.  He's sanctimonious, and that whole business with his insta-romance with Rosalind was just awful.  He had been with her for about 3 days, and it just seemed like an excessive amount of grief/revenge for someone who he barely knew.

 

On the other hand, I do like Lincoln.  I like his powers and I think he means well, it's just this stupid thing with Daisy that is dragging him down.  Luke Mitchell can be charismatic, so I blame the writing.

 

I enjoyed seeing more of Mack's backstory and learning that he is from Naperville, Illinois.  However, I found his brother to be thoroughly irritating.  I hope we never see him again.

 

I guess I don't follow this show that closely, because I had absolutely no recollection of Felix Blake at all.

 

I feel like this show is going down the tubes.  I miss Season 1 Agents of SHIELD.  Are they using up all of the budget for Daisy's quaking, Lincoln's lightning, and Dacaca's TK, and therefore they can't afford decent writers?

[TVSpectator]

I have to agree that Coulson's sudden love for Ros was a bit unbelievable  (even though I thought that Ros was an awesome character and that killing her off was a big mistake) and I thought that maybe they should've just focused/reimagined/retcon that what truly sent Coulson off the rails was the kidnapping of Fitz and Simmons. But, no we are to believe that it was the death of Rosalind. Don't get me wrong, I liked Rosalind but having her death to be his reason to go off the rails didn't seem to be the right amount of grief for their sudden relationship (and seriously none of these characters are really mourning over their supposed lost loves, at least now in 3B. I get that they all are being forced to move on but really Coulson hasn't said a word on how much he misses Rosalind and Simmons barely mentioned Will).

 

I really don't find Coulson to be sanctimonious, but his behavior seems to be erratic (like a lot of the other main characters; especially in this season). So, trying to predict what he will do is hard. That being said, a lot of the character's actions/motivations have been, IMO, erratic- for example,  I like May, but now during 3B, she was the consent pain in the ass to Hunter over something that probably happened (in the show's time) 3 months prior to 3X11 and wasn't really his fault. Which again, shows how weird the writing has been for this season. Maybe it's the time jump of having everything being moved up 3 months (and why did they do that? Why couldn't they just pretend that all of season 3 just happened over a shorter time frame and just say that it all lines up with Civil War/Daredevil?). Now, there is also the issue of Daisy and the fact that she hates the idea of having a vaccine for Inhumans. I have no idea why she (at of all people) would be against it while Lincoln (who, IMO, should've been the one to voice his concerns about it) seems to be onboard with the idea. 

 

 

As with Lincoln, I find him to be as bland as toast. I really don't hate him but I just don't care if he is in a relationship with Daisy. I thought that he was better used as a reoccurring character where he can just show up, do some science explaining/dump info on the Inhumans and Jiaying's group, and just disappears in the background. The character is really underdeveloped and I have no idea, other than that he likes to hurt people with his "sparks", on why he is supposed to be this "angry" person. He doesn't come off as angry but as someone who just likes to electrify the people he doesn't like (and in all honestly, he can be a cool recurring villain for this show to use if the are trying to make him into the next agent to turn). 

 

As with Agent Blake, I remember him from the Marvel short- Item 47 and that's really it. Maybe he made an appearance back in Season 1 but I can't remember if that it actually happen on screen or was just mentioned by a character. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by TVSpectator

[sinkwriter]

 

It was particularly striking in this most recent episode, where Coulson told Lincoln that Lincoln must show absolute loyalty and obedience to him no matter what. Daisy went against both Mack and Coulson in this episode, and this got Mack, his brother, and Fitz nearly killed. Yet, there's no consequences or even acknowledgement that she had disobeyed orders twice.

 

This was essentially what I came here to post, so consider this me cosigning. Big time. 

 

I was so ticked off at Daisy in this episode, and I want someone to hold her accountable. Lincoln gets shit from Coulson and May and they test him and test him, but Daisy's the one who went off book, ignored orders from above and nearly got her colleagues killed. Maybe Daisy's the one who needs an evaluation?

[blueray]

 

Maybe he made an appearance back in Season 1 but I can't remember if that it actually happen on screen or was just mentioned by a character.

I honestly didn't remember him either, which is strange for me as I normally remember characters. I guess it's because I've seen him in so many things and still see MIB from lost.

 

I finally got to watch this episode, I liked it. I guess I'm alone in not thinking Daisy necessary went over board. She wanted to get answers and she got them. I doubt she went after someone who just posted a few things, and clearly the guy did have info which means he was way more involved. They only thing that was slightly her fault was what happened to Fitz, at the same time he may have got hit anyway. The stuff with Mac, how would she know they would follow him and his brother. Speaking of them, I liked getting some of Mack's backstory. Though his brother was annoying as people said. I don't get why he would be excited that a building blew up and people were likely hurt.

Edited April 11, 2016 by blueray

[TVSpectator]

I honestly didn't remember him either, which is strange for me as I normally remember characters. I guess it's because I've seen him in so many things and still see MIB from lost.

 

I finally got to watch this episode, I liked it. I guess I'm alone in not thinking Daisy necessary went over board. She wanted to get answers and she got them. I doubt she went after someone who just posted a few things, and clearly the guy did have info which means he was way more involved. They only thing that was slightly her fault was what happened to Fitz, at the same time he may have got hit anyway. The stuff with Mac, how would she know they would follow him and his brother. Speaking of them, I liked getting some of Mack's backstory. Though his brother was annoying as people said. I don't get why he would be excited that a building blew up and people were likely hurt.

 

I went back and found out that Blake showed up in Season 1 episode 16 (which is literally the episode before Turn, Turn, Turn) . All of S.H.I.E.L.D. is hunting for Deathlock, then Deathlock just basically lifts him up and throws Agent Blake against a wall; which results in him being paralyzed. 

 

As with Daisy, she disobeyed orders from a superior officer. She basically tortured (or threaten to torture) someone they weren't sure if he was even part of the Watchdogs (and she got lucky that he even gave the correct information and not just randomly made something up on the fly in order to leave him alone). She also helped the guy have a confirmation basis about Inhumans being a threat to regular humans. And her actions did put Fitz in danger, by having him come along and point a gun at some random guy's face. Yeah, it was a good thing that he did turn out to be part of the Watchdogs, but they weren't sure about him anyways (and he could've been just an Internet troll that had no connection to the Watchdogs but felt similar to them. And we do know that there are humans that feel the same way the Watchdogs do and are not members of the group; for example Mack's  younger brother) and following him probably would've resulted in her gathering the same information without making S.H.I.E.L.D.  looked like the CIA torture program. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by TVSpectator

[John Potts]

Yeah, it does seem to be a thing on a lot of TV shows that "Fascism is OK if it's US doing it!" (that's "us" as in "we" not "US" as in the "United States", though that generally is the us in question). I wasn't sure if Daisy threatening to torture a guy (I mean... use enhanced interrogation techniques) was meant to show the slippery slope that even Hacktivist members of an oppressed minority group will resort to threats of violence or simple character derailment... I guess it could go either way. Though I'm reminded that I'd heard that in the comic book series Civil War it was intended for Iron Man & the Pro Regs (great name for a rock band!) to be right while Captain America & the Anti-Regs were meant to be wrong, because obviously the writers thought everyone would see how right a bunch of murderous psychopaths who detained their opposition without trial and threw them into high tech oubliettes really were. (OK, that was a bit of a rant, but it does seem a bit too common.)

 

Absolutely agree that benteen that Coulson is an over promoted middle manager who is struggling to fill Fury's shoes and it's a real shame that anyone who takes a contrary line is quickly shown to be either evil, rapidly die or both (both Gonzalez and Rosalind had a touch of each) . I also don't believe that EVERY organisation that's suspicious of the Inhumans has to be HYDRA: it reminds me of something Nostalgia Chick said in her review of Captain America: Nice to know all the world's troubles are actually HYDRA's fault and not the result of ordinary self interest & bigotry (see the review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZknp9aFM3c - the comment I'm paraphrasing is at about 24 minutes in). People - even well meaning people - can disagree with you without being secretly pawns of some evil organisation, though apparently not in the MCU.

 

Sandman So I'm the only one singing "Knife-Wrench!"
Agent Dark For kids!

 

 

The "For kids!" version was Scissors-Wrench. Still, love the fact that Mack got his Shotgun-Axe (mostly). Though a Shotgun-Chainsaw would be cooler!

 

 

kitlee625 Daisy went against both Mack and Coulson in this episode, and this got Mack, his brother, and Fitz nearly killed. Yet, there's no consequences or even acknowledgement that she had disobeyed orders twice.

 

 

I tend to agree - if you want to show a pseudo-military organisation, there should be consequences of disobeying orders, even if (possibly especially if) you're the team leader's surrogate daughter. Militaries tend to be very big on that.