S03.E16: Dawn's Early Light

[Snookums]

I watched it again this morning and egads, it was so bad.

 

 

So. Bad. SOOOOOOO bad. This actress was wasted in this role. I still say as a modern day frenemy/nemesis of Abbie's at her office (not that Abbie is ever, ever at the office EVER) she would have been fine, even fun. As Busty Ross it was just painful all the way through.

 

Okay, so I hope the kiss is the prelude to betrayal and death, which sounds horrible, but honestly that's the only thing that can save this terrible, misguided pairing. I could see Abbie kinda making herself "want" to be with Danny since she likes him, has a history with him, etc., and can maybe be seeing him as her "normal, finally over the Catacombs" relationship or something, then feeling guilty that she got him killed/feeling wretchedly betrayed that Danny betrayed her for/with Intermittent Evil Boss Guy. But anybody who A) keeps a full bottle of booze at the ready IN HIS GLASS OFFICE and B) smooches on his employee who reports to him in said office is already a bad bet, honestly. 

 

Let's hear it for THO getting his ass schooled by Finally Had It Pandy! So proud of her! Especially the bit when he's all blustering threats and rage, her image fades out, and he gets that  hilarious look on his face; that of a man who has just realized he's going to have to make his own dinner and do the dishes afterwards.

[Indi]

Betsy Ross from the show was married? I don't think so.

 

Ross was not Betsy's maiden surname. The real Betsy married John Ross in 1773 and since Ichy has been calling Sexy!Betsy "Ross" from the beginning, she probably was a married woman, when they met and most definitely when he had the affair with her.

[bethy]

Was there cheating, though? Did the letter say they'd had an affair? I have to confess I fast forwarded through the voice-over because, blech.

[MissAlmond]

 

So. Bad. SOOOOOOO bad. This actress was wasted in this role. I still say as a modern day frenemy/nemesis of Abbie's at her office (not that Abbie is ever, ever at the office EVER) she would have been fine, even fun. As Busty Ross it was just painful all the way through.

 

I think they used Betsy's married name of Ross because they most likely figured nobody would know her by any other name.  Alas, no matter what she called herself,  Nikki Reed would still have come off as Lululemon wearing Betsy ready to take her daily run before being summoned by Washington.

 

Okay, so I hope the kiss is the prelude to betrayal and death, which sounds horrible, but honestly that's the only thing that can save this terrible, misguided pairing.

 

 

I would love for Daniel Reynolds to be revealed as the Horseman of Famine send by "New Moloch Shady FBI Boss" to "starve" off The Witnesses bond growing any deeper and the symbol appeared to Abbie during his meeting to keep her from danger.   Pandora already knows this, which is why she told THO the witnesses loved each other in spite of that kiss.  However, I highly doubt any of this will happen and HalcyonDays depressing theory of, after the battle Crane goes back to his own time period while Abbie lives boringly ever after with Danny, is closer to the truth.

 

Let's hear it for THO getting his ass schooled by Finally Had It Pandy! So proud of her! Especially the bit when he's all blustering threats and rage, her image fades out, and he gets that  hilarious look on his face; that of a man who has just realized he's going to have to make his own dinner and do the dishes afterwards.

 

 

That was glorious and made this episode for me.  However, I don't see THO making that dinner/doing dishes for long.  He'll soon be on the hunt for the next little wifey to take over the "womanly duties."  Those types usually do. 

 

Two more episodes and I still have the sinking feeling SH is about to go to hell in a hand basket and not in a good way.  Think I'll buy whiskey for MissAlmond and beer for my horses for the viewings.

Edited March 28, 2016 by MissAlmond

[Julia]

Betsy Ross from the show was married? I don't think so.

Maybe not in this reality, but Ross was her married name IRL.

[CooperTV]

Maybe not in this reality, but Ross was her married name IRL.

I'm all for nitpicking, actually, but we have to use handwavium here, people. The show's Sleppy Hollow is not real Sleepy Hollow, Benjamin Franklin didn't create Kindred's Bride, there's no such thing as Headless Horseman, Betsy Ross didn't sew thread made of Orpheus' Lyre's strings into the US flag and Ichabod Crane wasn't involved in every aspect of the American Revolution ever because Ichabod Crane didn't exist. So making assumptions about fictional characters' being unfaithful to their spouses based on actual history class is pretty much counterproductive. For me, anyway.

[Julia]

Yeah, we had a conversation ^^^ about the difficulties with factchecking this show over the weekend. I'm just saying, IRL, she was not born a Ross.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm all for nitpicking, actually, but we have to use handwavium here, people. The show's Sleppy Hollow is not real Sleepy Hollow, Benjamin Franklin didn't create Kindred's Bride, there's no such thing as Headless Horseman, Betsy Ross didn't sew thread made of Orpheus' Lyre's strings into the US flag and Ichabod Crane wasn't involved in every aspect of the American Revolution ever because Ichabod Crane didn't exist. So making assumptions about fictional characters' being unfaithful to their spouses based on actual history class is pretty much counterproductive. For me, anyway.

 

True. But I can still criticize the idiot show runners/writers for trying to totally erase Katrina's existence, because it was due to her magicks that Ichabod was able to "wake up" after 250 years into the 21st century.  And that it seems he cheated on his "true love" with Betsy, considering the time line within this show's whackadoodle twists on American History.

 

If I did Twitter, I'd totally ask them to explain themselves.

[Sparkling Beth]

Have we ever had evidence of a physical relationship between Crane and Betsy?  I know she kissed him once, but she clearly initiated the kiss and he seemed taken aback by it if I remember right.  My impression has always been that he was intrigued by her, even attracted to her, but that doesn't mean he was actually pursuing her or cheating on Katrina.  Even Jimmy Carter admitted to committing adultery in his heart, and if most people were honest, they'd admit to it too. 

 

I was rewatching parts of the episode last night, and was reminded of something I saw the first time around but hadn't mentioned yet, nor have I seen anyone else talking about it.  All along THO has had those eerie golden eyes, but when Pandora's astral self was confronting him, his eyes were dark like a regular human being's.  Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the meaning of that?  Did Pandora's betrayal overcome his callous god-like desire for power and bring out a human-like rage?  Or did he just forget to put in his kooky novelty lenses that morning?

[CooperTV]

And that it seems he cheated on his "true love" with Betsy, considering the time line within this show's whackadoodle twists on American History.

 

 

Have we ever had evidence of a physical relationship between Crane and Betsy?  I know she kissed him once, but she clearly initiated the kiss and he seemed taken aback by it if I remember right.  My impression has always been that he was intrigued by her, even attracted to her, but that doesn't mean he was actually pursuing her or cheating on Katrina.  Even Jimmy Carter admitted to committing adultery in his heart, and if most people were honest, they'd admit to it too.

 

I don't think he and Betsy were a thing. My impression from their interactions was that she was the One That Got Away for him. That capable woman he had feelings for but nothing ever came of it because life happened. Their scene in the last episode confirms it. I think it's possible that the writers made strong parallels between Ichabod/Betsy and Danny/Abbie. Except Abbie got to have this unattainable thing she had dreamed of with Danny (which, WTF).

[catrox14]

I don't think he and Betsy were a thing. My impression from their interactions was that she was the One That Got Away for him. That capable woman he had feelings for but nothing ever came of it because life happened. Their scene in the last episode confirms it. I think it's possible that the writers made strong parallels between Ichabod/Betsy and Danny/Abbie. Except Abbie got to have this unattainable thing she had dreamed of with Danny (which, WTF).

 

 

I'm wondering now if the parallel is that Abbie is going to be Crane's new unobtainable thing :(. That will make me very sad.

 

I don't want Danny to be Abbie's unobtainable thing because he just seems like a douchey asshat with ulterior motives. I think if she was able to get into back into Quantico again after all those shenanigans and seems to have flown through the program and handily was stationed back in SH, then maybe he helped get her there so that he could groom her to be 'An Asset" to whatever nefarious organization (non FBI division) he is really working for.

 

I agree that Crane and Betsy did not have a thing, not a full on sexy times thing. I could also fanwank that Katrina hex'd Ichabod into falling in love with her even if was still carrying a torch for Betsy.

Edited March 28, 2016 by catrox14

[Miss Dee]

Finding out that Ichabod was "bewitched" into loving witch Katrina when he was supposed to actually find and become attached to newly-discovered witch Abbie?

That'd be worth bringing Katia Winters back for one episode. *runs away from rotten tomatoes*

[DeLurker]

The letter was weird.  The reading of it was dismal, but since they never did anything to establish any real sort of relationship between Crane and Ross (and thank you for that!) the love part was out of left field.

 

But they never really gave me any inkling that Abbie still had feelings for Danny, so ...

[HalcyonDays]

Ichabod Crane wasn't involved in every aspect of the American Revolution ever because Ichabod Crane didn't exist.

 

Well, an Ichabod Crane did exist - Ichabod Bennett Crane, who was a colonel and served in the War of 1812. Washington Irving did meet the Colonel once, and the theory is that it's such an unusual name that Irving decide to use it for his story. There is also evidence of a entry ticket to the British Museum issued to an Ichabod Crane, and there are references to an Ichabod B. Crane in a New England Marriage registry.

 

Finding out that Ichabod was "bewitched" into loving witch Katrina when he was supposed to actually find and become attached to newly-discovered witch Abbie?

 

This is what I thought was going to happen since the pilot. Why they never followed through with that, I'll never understand.

 

I'm wondering now if the parallel is that Abbie is going to be Crane's new unobtainable thing :(. That will make me very sad.

 

Ugh. That's won't be awkward at all for Crane. I really hope not. Does that mean we can bring back the hashtag #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter, if she's with Danny?

 

The letter was weird.  The reading of it was dismal, but since they never did anything to establish any real sort of relationship between Crane and Ross (and thank you for that!) the love part was out of left field.

 

But they never really gave me any inkling that Abbie still had feelings for Danny, so ...

 

It was out of left field, but I guess they are trying to make parallels. Meh. I guess that convoluted crytic long speech by Abbie a couple episodes ago, wasn't really cryptic at all. Still, it seemed to come out of nowhere, and Abbie dear, he's your BOSS!! If you are going there, at least HIDE it from your coworkers instead of macking on your BOSS in plain sight.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Light A Fire Under It, Sleepy Hollow
How is an episode with so many revelations -- and this guy -- still so dull?

[mndpacer04]

I viewed the episode late and couldn't wait to read the responses here! I get the feeling TPTB thought this was going to be the last season, so they took the IchAbbie route (hence all the yummy shippy stuff we saw in earlier episodes). Then, they got wind that the show is being renewed and decided to backtrack/postpone IchAbbie until next season (hence the sudden DAbbie shift). JMHO. Still waiting for the season 4 announcement with fingers-crossed.

And while I was glad to see Abbie finally get some action, I don't like Danny's personality or trust him at all and Ichibod doesn't either. The serious side-eye and stern looks were very telling. I think it is a combination of jealousy and not liking/trusting Danny.

[HalcyonDays]

I viewed the episode late and couldn't wait to read the responses here! I get the feeling TPTB thought this was going to be the last season, so they took the IchAbbie route (hence all the yummy shippy stuff we saw in earlier episodes). Then, they got wind that the show is being renewed and decided to backtrack/postpone IchAbbie until next season (hence the sudden DAbbie shift). JMHO. Still waiting for the season 4 announcement with fingers-crossed.

 

I hope you are right, because then it would make sense. The overarcing problem (at this point) is that we don't know about renewal and many people ship Ichabbie. So without knowing about S4, we all think that's it for the ship and show, but if we DID know, then I (and others I think) wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

And while I was glad to see Abbie finally get some action, I don't like Danny's personality or trust him at all and Ichibod doesn't either. The serious side-eye and stern looks were very telling. I think it is a combination of jealousy and not liking/trusting Danny.

 

Yeah, I mean how is Abbie going to have a relationship with Danny, when he is going to be jealous and suspiscious everytime Crane and Abbie take off somewhere alone, plus the whole 'bond' thing, etc etc. Not easy for anyone in this threesome.

[Julia]

And I don't know if anybody saw the Bones crossover,but Brennan straight up told them to have sex, because it worked out so well for her and her partner. Platonic, my butt. When even just the thought of a person gets you through the most terrible ordeal in your life, that is the person you should be with. 

 

Well, that means something different in the Bones universe. People started telling one or the other of them that they should be having sex in the pilot. When they finally did get together they did it offscreen and brought it up casually later, á la X Files, when she showed up pregnant, and then she went on the run from the law for most of the season.

 

The showrunners were big fans of the moonlighting curse, to the point where they gave Brennan retroactive aspergers from a retroactive childhood trauma years into the show because they were running out of excuses for them not to become romantically involved. Their therapist actually stopped Booth from telling her how he felt because he was sure it was just a brain injury talking, despite his having written an entire book about how the two of them were in love. When someone in Bones brings up how obviously a couple should be together, it means they're going to have at least fifteen seconds of tumblr-friendly brooding per episode, not that they're going to have sex.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Julia

[HalcyonDays]

Just read this fabulous analysis over the whole DanAbbie thing that really gives some great insight into what the writers MAY actually be trying to do. I know many are really upset about what seems like no Ichabbie ship sailing, but in reading this, it really gives a good sense of what the writers are (possibly) trying to accomplish.

 

Very interesting and gives me hope in a weird way. I mean, we don't know what's going on with that shady government guy, and there are only two episodes left this season. So that has to be addressed, Danny's role in it, plus Ichabbie are going into the catacombs together. Someone elsewhere (here? I forget) pointed out that time moves faster in the catacombs. If they are gone for a few hours, to Ichabbie, it will have seemed like weeks and months, that they will be together, alone.

 

Anyway, here is the link to the analysis.

[Julia]

All good points.

 

I just meant she brought it up, because she picked up on the vibes they were giving off, not that we were going to get some hot Crane-on-Abbie action. Just that she was kind of speaking for the audience. I'm not saying everyone, obviously, because people will disagree. Just that the chemistry was enough for someone who just met them to notice it.

 

And also, that it was put in there as a suggestion, and it seems nobody objected to outright stating it.

Oh, I'm not trying to invalidate what you're saying, just to point out that Bones in particular is notorious for constantly talking about the two leads getting together and then throwing up absurd roadblocks. They had a sort of Whedonesque screw with the shippers thing going on.

With any luck, the people who make this show didn't pick up too much from them making those episodes :)

[catrox14]

 

Okay, did anybody think it's weird that Danny had absolutely no reaction to finding out the exact reason Abbie disappeared? i mean, he didn't look shocked or say, "Oh my God. What she must have gone through! I had no idea!" Just hearing it all recited like that made me go "Wow," and I saw it happen. Did I miss the part where she told him about the Catacombs? Maybe I missed it.

 

 

This is just another piece of evidence I am filing away in my file of "Something Ain't Right About Danny" .  SHENANIGANS I SAY

[Clanstarling]

Did I miss a scene or an entire episode perhaps? How is it that Ezra is in such good terms with Abbie and behaving so much like parent?

I know! I spent a few minutes going "wtf?"

 

 

I have some faith that Papa Mills will come into play, although I could be giving the writers too much credit. I think there's something supernatural in his past that will explain why he left and set up him to do something heroic in the present.

I do too. While I was watching this episode, having Papa Mills front and center in a story that revolved around the gang needing to get back to the catacombs, made me wonder if he lied about how and why he left them - that in fact, he'd been stuck in the catacombs himself. He wouldn't have said anything to them, because he wouldn't know they were actively involved with the supernatural.

But, it was early and before caffeine. So who knows. Ya'll put way more analytic thought than I do, so I'm just running it up the flagpole.

Edited March 28, 2016 by clanstarling

[Snookums]

Excellent, excellent link, HalcyonDays. Since this show hasn't hesitated on calling Joe out on his well meaning but invasive takeover of Jenny's life, I hope that's where they're going with this. Boundaries and respect for same does seem to be the overarching thread this season.

[Miss Dee]

Just read this fabulous analysis over the whole DanAbbie thing that really gives some great insight into what the writers MAY actually be trying to do. I know many are really upset about what seems like no Ichabbie ship sailing, but in reading this, it really gives a good sense of what the writers are (possibly) trying to accomplish.

Very interesting and gives me hope in a weird way. I mean, we don't know what's going on with that shady government guy, and there are only two episodes left this season. So that has to be addressed, Danny's role in it, plus Ichabbie are going into the catacombs together. Someone elsewhere (here? I forget) pointed out that time moves faster in the catacombs. If they are gone for a few hours, to Ichabbie, it will have seemed like weeks and months, that they will be together, alone.

Anyway, here is the link to the analysis.

If I could, I'd take this analysis into my glass-walled office and kiss it in front of everybody after drinking Scotch on the job. Excellent, excellent points.

[Sparkling Beth]

If I could, I'd take this analysis into my glass-walled office and kiss it in front of everybody after drinking Scotch on the job. Excellent, excellent points.

Ditto!  This is fantastic, and if it turns out to be what the writers are going for, I will be beyond impressed--and grateful.

[MissAlmond]

OK, after reading a lot of very thoughtful comments, I've (somewhat) climbed out from the pit of despair and will hang in there!  So a thousand thanks everybody,   although I will keep the whiskey close at hand.

[HalcyonDays]

It really was a great analysis, eh? Spot on (I hope). Hopefully everyone read the comments too, because there is some insightful stuff in there.

 

According to CC and a couple of the writers, they keep mentioning that we will "revisit" and learn more about that shady government guy who offed Nevin. Since I read that, we haven't seen him at all, so if this will occur, we'll see it this Friday or next.

 

And there is still the possibility of a season 4 - maybe a shortened one, so IF there is a season 4, then there will be no Ichabbie resolution this season, because that will be the focus of S4. So I say crack a couple bottles of wine each of the next two Friday's, settle in and enjoy the ride. That's what I'm gonna do.

[jhlipton]

You know, I keep doing that, like, I'm outraged that the show with the 250 YO man and the wendigo and the egyptian god enslaving the greek princess and the headless guy has a madonna statue in a colonial Dutch Reform church, because that's _not accurate_, and... um.

LOL

 

And because he is supposed to be a love interest - unlike Sophie - I'm guessing he'll take up even more time than Jenny and Joe and Sophie.

Ugh. You're right,

 

I agree that the show is a mess, for many reasons. But at the same time, it's also becoming increasingly ironically hilarious to me that this is the rare show that passes the Bechdel Test, for which discussions about it do not.

We frequently have not just women pass the Bechdel Test, but Women of Color -- Abbie, Jennie, Sophie and Pandora (somewhat), all talk to each other, in twos and threes about a lot of stuff other than "their men".

 

Just read this fabulous analysis over the whole DanAbbie thing that really gives some great insight into what the writers MAY actually be trying to do.

I hope this is right. If so, it would be an amazing piece of writing and should cause an immediate renewal. But we'll have to wait and see.

 

They had a sort of Whedonesque screw with the shippers thing going on.

If Nicole is going to screw with the shippers, I'm all for it!  LOL

[spaceghostess]

Just read this fabulous analysis over the whole DanAbbie thing that really gives some great insight into what the writers MAY actually be trying to do. I know many are really upset about what seems like no Ichabbie ship sailing, but in reading this, it really gives a good sense of what the writers are (possibly) trying to accomplish.

 

Very interesting and gives me hope in a weird way. I mean, we don't know what's going on with that shady government guy, and there are only two episodes left this season. So that has to be addressed, Danny's role in it, plus Ichabbie are going into the catacombs together. Someone elsewhere (here? I forget) pointed out that time moves faster in the catacombs. If they are gone for a few hours, to Ichabbie, it will have seemed like weeks and months, that they will be together, alone.

 

Anyway, here is the link to the analysis.

If only I had enough confidence in this writing staff to believe they could be that insightful and connect that many dots in such a nuanced way. I will be duly impressed--and over the moon--if they do. I love your idea about all the hours Crane and Abbie would have together in the catacombs. That's one of those things that would be great to play with in the last couple episodes. Again, would it be giving too much credit to hope that whichever writers did the last scripts used that to their (and the characters' . . . and our) advantage?

[netlyon2]

I've decided that I'm not going to let the show make me crazy on my Spring Break, so I'll just post some bits and bobs that occurred to me during my DVR rewatch.

- Yay, Pandora! You take back your power! I continue to love her disdain for Ichabod; even when he caught her in the Masonic cell, she was just like, "Yeah, you got me! Whatever, where's Abbie?" As annoyed as I am by Danny's being in the Archives in those photos from "Delaware," I'm having fun imagining Pandora making snide comments to Ichabod about it.

- I'm fine with how they're using Papa Mills; he's far less egregious than other new characters this season. People are different and families are different, so I don't have a problem with him trying to reconnect with his daughters, nor do I think there's anything amiss in either of their responses. As Abbie said in the episode, she's in a place where she's more open to relationships (though she very clearly stated that they were not reconciled).

- That said, I'd forgotten how damn tedious Jenny's emotional neediness can be. Ugh, you know it's bad when I've started to think of her as Mary Musgrove (although it raises some interesting parallels where Abbie = Anne, Ichabod = Wentworth, Zoe = Louisa, and Danny = Mr. Eliot).

- I must say that Tom brought it in those flashback scenes; I actually saw some of the sparks between Ichabod and Betsy that I think I was supposed to see all season. He was throwing the side glances, velvety voice, and heart eyes (only at about 50% power, though). Of course, he wasn't getting much of anything back, but Betsy was passable in her scenes. I did appreciate the costuming choice of having her in a uniform that matched the one in the painting (and wasn't a sexy pirate corset). (Rather than say anything about the reading of the letter in this episode, I'm just going to re-read THE LETTER from Persuasion. "I am half agony, half hope.")

- I continue to appreciate the little buddy moments between Ichabod and Joe (the little gimme five was cute, although the Scrabble squabble remains my favorite). I also really like the way that Nicole is playing Abbie's lowering of her emotional walls (even as I hate the Danabbie stuff). She just seems lighter, both less weighed-down and more luminous.

- Sophie also continues to be great. I like her way too much to ship her with Reynolds, but they do have far more chemistry than he does with Abbie. Even back in "One Life," I felt a vibe that they could have developed into a more serious thing. It's not like Danny has a problem getting involved with his subordinates. (I will point out, though, that Abbie was just telling Jenny that Reynolds is her boss in "Into the Wild.")

- So, I hate to bring this up and scar other fans, but are we supposed to conclude that Abbie spent the night with Danny after snogging in his glass-walled office? Because the next time we see her, she is asking her roommate why he texted her to meet him at dawn, something that wouldn't happen unless one of them wasn't at home that night. If so, I'm torn between being happy that our girl got some and being appalled at what she got.

Just read this fabulous analysis over the whole DanAbbie thing that really gives some great insight into what the writers MAY actually be trying to do.

Hey, thanks for posting that. The author has a lot of thoughts that I share but have been too lazy to post in the Relationships thread. Actually, I'll post some thoughts on that tomorrow as this is getting pretty long.

I will say, however, that I couldn't get totally on board with the Ichabod cheerleading. While, as mentioned in the post, he has been the ideal support system since "One Life," I can't forget that for a season and a half, he was taking Abbie for granted in some of the same ways as Danny. It does make me appreciate just how much they've done with him in this season, though. For me, the biggest difference is that I actually believe him when he makes the big "our bond/destiny" speeches now, whereas last season I just rolled my eyes because we all knew that he was about to redraw a map/give the witch a vote/let the Horseman of War get away. So, yay for Ichabod's character growth!

[TaurusRose]

I know many are really upset about what seems like no Ichabbie ship sailing, but in reading this, it really gives a good sense of what the writers are (possibly) trying to accomplish.

 

Anyway, here is the link to the analysis.

If talea456's analysis comes to pass, I'll eat crow and take back every negative thing I've said so far, BUT (you knew there was a but) I think s/he is giving SH's writers way too much credit; therefore, I remain unconvinced.

 

- I must say that Tom brought it in those flashback scenes; I actually saw some of the sparks between Ichabod and Betsy that I think I was supposed to see all season. He was throwing the side glances, velvety voice, and heart eyes (only at about 50% power, though).

Yes, he did, and I'm glad you pointed this out because I thought I was all alone on reading his performance.

 

I can't forget that for a season and a half, he was taking Abbie for granted in some of the same ways as Danny.

I can't quite agree with this. Not in the same ways as Danny. Last season (gah! you're making me remember CFD) Crane was torn between his witness duties and being a husband, not to mention dealing with a geriatric adolescent he didn't know he'd fathered. Granted, he gave in to Katrina more than he should have when it came to witness issues, but I can empathize with his plight. (He was kind of between a rock and a hard place.) And in the end, he put his responsibility as a witness (and his bond with Abbie) above the Wigstand. 

- So, I hate to bring this up and scar other fans, but are we supposed to conclude that Abbie spent the night with Danny after snogging in his glass-walled office?

Quite possibly, but I can't make myself care. If Abbie wants hamburger instead steak, so be it.

Edited March 29, 2016 by taurusrose

[MissAlmond]

 

If talea456's analysis comes to pass, I'll eat crow and take back every negative thing I've said so far, BUT (you knew there was a but) I think s/he is giving SH's writers way too much credit; therefore, I remain unconvinced.

 

I've actually like what they've done with Season 3 which is why I had such a huge WTF moment with that Danabbiezzzzzzzzzzz kiss.  But, I always knew after putting up Crane/Zoe, Abbie/Daniel would put me in a foul mood.   However, I made it this far with SH, so I'll watch, wait, trust and keep the wine close at hand until the (season? show?) is over. 

 

 

Because the next time we see her, she is asking her roommate why he texted her to meet him at dawn, something that wouldn't happen unless one of them wasn't at home that night.

 

If we're all correct about Danny and his motives (even I wonder if he's secretly one of the horsemen), I'm I waiting to see if it was indeed that symbol that protected Abbie from him after she was released from the catacombs.  As I said,  she saw the symbol flash during Reynold's conference and maybe (can't remember because DVR wiped it out grrrrrr) on the shooting range too.  If that turns out to be true, hell yes, I will indeed bow down to the writers. 

 

That's for the therapy everybody.  Next up, "Delaware"!  I suppose I should chill it now.

[Enero]

If talea456's analysis comes to pass, I'll eat crow and take back every negative thing I've said so far, BUT (you knew there was a but) I think s/he is giving SH's writers way too much credit; therefore, I remain unconvinced. Yes, he did, and I'm glad you pointed this out because I thought I was all alone on reading his performance. I can't quite agree with this. Not in the same ways as Danny. Last season (gah! you're making me remember CFD) Crane was torn between his witness duties and being a husband, not to mention dealing with a geriatric adolescent he didn't know he'd fathered. Granted, he gave in to Katrina more than he should have when it came to witness issues, but I can empathize with his plight. (He was kind of between a rock and a hard place.) And in the end, he put his responsibility as a witness (and his bond with Abbie) above the Wigstand.

I agree. As horrible as S2 was, I really couldn't fault Crane too much for his choices. He loved Katrina and as a result he oftentimes, to our frustration, put her ahead of Abbie and his Witness duties. It was not pretty, but it made sense. Crane always seems to struggle with putting his feelings aside for the greater good. He did the same when he used Franklin's key to get Abbie out if purgatory and when he tried to use the Lydian Jug to get her back from the tree.

Quite possibly, but I can't make myself care. If Abbie wants hamburger instead steak, so be it.

This is hilarious but I agree.

If we're all correct about Danny and his motives (even I wonder if he's secretly one of the horsemen), I'm I waiting to see if it was indeed that symbol that protected Abbie from him after she was released from the catacombs. As I said, she saw the symbol flash during Reynold's conference and maybe (can't remember because DVR wiped it out grrrrrr) on the shooting range too. If that turns out to be true, hell yes, I will indeed bow down to the writers..

When Abbie first encountered him after leaving the Catacombs she didn't see the symbol. The symbol didn't start to bother her until she and Crane were having a quiet evening at home. Then things started to ramp up with her seeing it all the time. So I don't think Danny is some evil entity. That said, I don't think he's as oblivious about what's going on as he claims. The fact that he would let Abbie cut out of meetings and cases etc., without explanation and bring Crane to crime scenes for months without nipping it in the bud says it all. Furthermore, it gives me pause that Abbie isn't suspicious of Danny's "more than patient" accomdations of allowing an unauthorized person who is not even a U.S. citizen access to FBI crime scenes.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Enero

[MissAlmond]

When Abbie first encountered him after leaving the Catacombs she didn't see the symbol. The symbol didn't start to bother her until she and Crane were having a quiet evening at home. Then things started to ramp up with her seeing it all the time. So I don't think Danny is some evil entity. That said, I don't think he's as oblivious about what's going on as he claims. The fact that he would let Abbie cut out of meetings and cases etc., without explanation and bring Crane to crime scenes for months without nipping it in the bud says it all. Furthermore, it gives me pause that Abbie isn't suspicious of Danny's "more than patient" accomdations of allowing an unauthorized person who is not even a U.S. citizen access to FBI crime scenes.

 

Thank you.  Like I said, my DVR lost its mind (had to replace three receivers, each time recorded shows going bye-bye with the old one) so I have no way to double check.  I guess I could do FOX on Demand,  but commercials, laziness, watching reruns the way "I" want to, etc, etc. Yeah, that whole drill LOL. 

 

[bobbysgurl]

I believe Abbie and Crane were destined to be together since the very first episode of SH. When Abbie first saw Crane in jail, the look on her face was "What are you doing here?" It seemed as though she knew him already, but it was never fleshed out. The bond between the two was instantaneous. It was much more and purer than love at first sight.

Then we got "S2", and everything went down the tubes. I still think the writers were trying to get there, but they wrote themselves into a massive hole and couldn't find a way out.

Since they scrapped "S2", for me, Katrina nor Jeremy/Henry never existed. That being said, we cannot look too closely at how Ichabod ended up in the "future". I'm going to assume the Founding Fathers spirited him away to come awake at the precise time that the second witness was ready to enter the fray.

Now, Danabbie isn't happening. In my mind Abbie did a WTF in her mind when Danny said if it were left up to him she wouldn't still be with the Agency. The writers could not have put that out there without a payoff sometime in the future.

Danny did tell Abbie that he loves her. Abbie knows that what he means is, I am a man and I love you as a woman. Maybe, just maybe, Abbie chooses Danny because she doesn't understand yet that that is what ichabod has been showing her at every turn. She has more with ichabod than she could ever have with Danny. Ichabod is "Home" for Abbie, and he "will leave a light on" for her when she's ready to come "Home".

[HalcyonDays]

Since they scrapped "S2", for me, Katrina nor Jeremy/Henry never existed. That being said, we cannot look too closely at how Ichabod ended up in the "future". I'm going to assume the Founding Fathers spirited him away to come awake at the precise time that the second witness was ready to enter the fray.

 

Actually, how it appeared in the pilot can be taken as fact. Katrina was weeping over Crane, and Father!Chainslinger (tm whoever came up with this) came to her side and says "it is time." From day one, I always assumed it was HIS magic that saved Crane, not Katrina's. They reconned it later, with first "why" she ended up in Purgatory (or was that from fanfic, now I don't remember), but if you just go by the pilot, then it holds, imo.

 

Quite possibly, but I can't make myself care. If Abbie wants hamburger instead steak, so be it.

 

This is the BEST quote! HIlarious!! Remember, Danny offered Abbie a "pancake" breakfest, whilst Crane was cooking up some tasty Italian food, complete with red wine, flowers and candlelight. Now, to each his own taste, but yeah, I'm choosing the red wine and candlelight and flowers. To flip it, I'd rather be in a grungy pub drinking beer (well ciders) with Crane, than drinking scotch in some upscale place. It all boils down to company and conversation, and I'm not sure what Danny and Abbie would talk about, besides work. I think at this point, Abbie and Crane have a lot more interesting conversations and fun together, than Abbie and Danny do. Obviously YMMV.

 

Maybe, just maybe, Abbie chooses Danny because she doesn't understand yet that that is what ichabod has been showing her at every turn. She has more with ichabod than she could ever have with Danny. Ichabod is "Home" for Abbie, and he "will leave a light on" for her when she's ready to come "Home".

 

*sob*. This is beautiful...

[Hanahope]

I can see the season finale episode now.  Abbie finally realizes that she wants to be with Ichy and vice versa, but then in their efforts to take out THO, they end up reviving a remarkably preserved Betsy Ross from the catacombs and she expresses her undying love to Ichy, whose feelings for her are rekindled as well, creating yet another love triangle.  You just know Betsy is getting a FF to the future as well.

 

I did like the reference to Hamilton, as well as Betsy saying she'd only be remembered for the flag.

[DeLurker]

Been thinking about Papa Mills - he signed up for the service (Navy?) when Mom started to go squirrelly - did he say for better benefits?  In which case, Mama Mills and the girls would have been military dependents and would have been on his service records.  So when his kids go into foster care, he would still be the legal guardian and easily contacted through the service, even if he were out on assignment.  A service man relinquishing his parental rights would not reflect well on him.

[TaurusRose]

Been thinking about Papa Mills - he signed up for the service (Navy?) when Mom started to go squirrelly - did he say for better benefits?  In which case, Mama Mills and the girls would have been military dependents and would have been on his service records.  So when his kids go into foster care, he would still be the legal guardian and easily contacted through the service, even if he were out on assignment.  A service man relinquishing his parental rights would not reflect well on him.

LOL

This is way too much reason and thought for SH. It doesn't matter whether or not he relinquished his parental rights because he didn't bother to keep in touch with his children. Besides, I don't give a rat's ass about Ezra Mills. As it stands, I view him as one more unnecessary person thrown into the S3 mix. He's definitely on my list of people who need to leave right now. Come to think of it, given the choice of Betsy, Danny, Ezra, THO, Pandora and Sophie, the only person I'd choose is Sophie. I like Sophie; Sophie can stay.

Edited March 29, 2016 by taurusrose

[DeLurker]

You are absolutely right - I don't know what I was thinking!  I like Sophie too. 

[Briony]

*pokes her head in from lurking*

 

eh I was in the navy they totally will take your kids from you if leave them with a guardian they deem unfit. I saw a woman in my berthing have to lawyer up because her young children were sneaking out of the house to play in the neighborhood after dark while their father was sleeping. They went into foster care and she couldn't get back home until the deployment was over to deal with it. Though I do think they ended up with her relatives eventually. I saw another guy get court marshaled because he asked for a day off to go to a child custody hearing (he was getting a divorce and had already re-scheduled a bunch of times and the court was putting their foot down) and they wouldn't let him go cause they were getting underway that day, so he just didn't show up (to the ship). When he came back they arrested him and made a big show of it. The Navy is not family friendly by any means. The first thing they told me when they saw I was engaged was to not get pregnant.

 

So yeah, they might contact you but it doesn't really mean you can do much about it especially if don't have any extended family. Still he is not a great guy for not doing everything in his power to get his kids back once he was stateside again.

[Miss Dee]

Wow, Briony. That's eye-opening. Thanks for delurking!

[phoenics]

Loved the twistory Crossing of the Delaware stuff in this episode - THAT was amazing to watch. Sad it took them all season to get to that kind of storytelling.

While I'm glad to finally see Abbie get kissed, I'm still WTF at Danabbie. And a bit upset at all of the Ichabbie ship teasing that is clearly never going anywhere. Why do that to the fans if they weren't going to finally go there?

It's just cruel and mean. This feels a bit like it felt during Deliverance when Ichabod leaped down to give Katrina mouth to mouth after failing to be able to do that with Abbie. There it got to be this huge romantic moment while it felt like the writers were smacking us in the face with "ICHABBIE ISN'T the couple you idiots! Ichatrina is!" Coupled with Katia Winters' nasty tweet at the time goading fans, it's just ugh.

If I knew we had a S3 maybe I wouldn't feel so gutted (so gutted that I just can't even care at this point), but we don't know and probably won't get one. And worse even if we did, it still doesn't mean we'd get Ichabbie anyway, but they'd tease it to death.

I swear if Abbie and Danny end up together at the end and they bring Betsy into the present for Ichabod I swear I will hurl chunks and hate these writers evermore. Damn raven.

[TaurusRose]

I'm still WTF at Danabbie. And a bit upset at all of the Ichabbie ship teasing that is clearly never going anywhere. Why do that to the fans if they weren't going to finally go there?

It's just cruel and mean. This feels a bit like it felt during Deliverance when Ichabod leaped down to give Katrina mouth to mouth after failing to be able to do that with Abbie. There it got to be this huge romantic moment while it felt like the writers were smacking us in the face with "ICHABBIE ISN'T the couple you idiots! Ichatrina is!" Coupled with Katia Winters' nasty tweet at the time goading fans, it's just ugh.

I got the impression that Crane didn't know anything about CPR when Abbie nearly drowned. He is a quick study and doesn't remain ignorant of advancements once brought to his attention. So when Whispering Tits needed reviving he was quite capable and able to save her worthless life. I wasn't heavily engaged during S2, but I never got the feeling that Crane and Katrina were the OTP. They were just too bland, but what was the Wigstand gloating about? I will give you the writers have played a nasty little game with the fans since coming back from the last break and if I could hurt those fuckers, I would.

[mndpacer04]

I'm still WTF at Danabbie. And a bit upset at all of the Ichabbie ship teasing that is clearly never going anywhere. Why do that to the fans if they weren't going to finally go there?It's just cruel and mean. This feels a bit like it felt during Deliverance when Ichabod leaped down to give Katrina mouth to mouth after failing to be able to do that with Abbie. There it got to be this huge romantic moment while it felt like the writers were smacking us in the face with "ICHABBIE ISN'T the couple you idiots! Ichatrina is!" Coupled with Katia Winters' nasty tweet at the time goading fans, it's just ugh.If I knew we had a S3 maybe I wouldn't feel so gutted (so gutted that I just can't even care at this point), but we don't know and probably won't get one. And worse even if we did, it still doesn't mean we'd get Ichabbie anyway, but they'd tease it to death.I swear if Abbie and Danny end up together at the end and they bring Betsy into the present for Ichabod I swear I will hurl chunks and hate these writers evermore. Damn raven.

Don't give up on IchAbbie just yet...TVLine has Season 3 finale photos and the 1st gallery photo looks very promising ;-)

Edited March 30, 2016 by mndpacer04

[MissAlmond]

He's definitely on my list of people who need to leave right now. Come to think of it, given the choice of Betsy, Danny, Ezra, THO, Pandora and Sophie, the only person I'd choose is Sophie. I like Sophie; Sophie can stay.

 

Betsy can leave.  Danny can die.  But show better not mess with my girl, Pandora.

 

[AmberSkye79]

Don't give up on IchAbbie just yet...TVLine has Season 3 finale photos and the 1st gallery photo looks very promising ;-)

Yep. I saw that picture also (but with our luck, Abbie is just picking lint off Ichabod's shirt <sarcasm>)

Edited March 30, 2016 by AmberSkye79

[TaurusRose]

Betsy can leave.  Danny can die.  But show better not mess with my girl, Pandora.

Pandora is okay. I watched A Knight's Tale the other night and SS was really very fetching in that. She is doing a good job as Pandora in SH, too, it's just that she's a bad guy; therefore, I don't expect her to have longevity. She may be helping Team Witness at the moment, but do you really think someone who is used to having ultimate power and immortality is going to just give that up? I'm guessing no.

[spaceghostess]

Yep. I saw that picture also (but with our luck, Abbie is just picking lint off Ichabod's shirt <sarcasm>)

Indeed--I commented the same thing when the snap came out the other week. Great (or cynical?) minds think alike! Too bad we've been trained in that direction by wing-nut writing. :-(

[phoenics]

Just read this fabulous analysis over the whole DanAbbie thing that really gives some great insight into what the writers MAY actually be trying to do. I know many are really upset about what seems like no Ichabbie ship sailing, but in reading this, it really gives a good sense of what the writers are (possibly) trying to accomplish.

 

Very interesting and gives me hope in a weird way. I mean, we don't know what's going on with that shady government guy, and there are only two episodes left this season. So that has to be addressed, Danny's role in it, plus Ichabbie are going into the catacombs together. Someone elsewhere (here? I forget) pointed out that time moves faster in the catacombs. If they are gone for a few hours, to Ichabbie, it will have seemed like weeks and months, that they will be together, alone.

 

Anyway, here is the link to the analysis.

I would love this but I don't think these writers understand how to do subtlety except with Ichabbie. And much of that I think is Mison and Beharie.

Edited March 30, 2016 by phoenics