S07.E01: Here We Go Again

[Rebecca]

Why does Kailyn inspire such rage and ire in some? It's as if some viewers won't be happy unless it's agreed upon she's the worst person to ever have lived with no redeeming qualities at all. It's weird to me because I would assume most people would feel that way about Jenelle but it truly seems like it's Kailyn.

[DangerousMinds]

Some of us don't feel quite that strongly but don't post our opinions about her often because we don't want to be immediately attacked. I have no time or energy for that.

[radishcake]

Guys if you aren't talking about the show, you are snarking on each other, which is not the point of the forum.

Please keep your comments about other posters to yourselves and post about the SHOW only.

[ReadMeLattice]

Kailyn is definitely one of the better moms. 100%. Especially considering where she comes from. Maybe not likable, maybe not some amazing wife, but she's inarguably a great mother. Maybe even better than Chelsea as she actually seems to discipline her sons and expect them to behave. Aubree is cute now but she will be a terror.

[SPLAIN]

A great mother would not spew racist remarks or try to diminish her Latino boys to white boys.

I loathe racist people.

[ReadMeLattice]

A great mother would not spew racist remarks or try to diminish her Latino boys to white boys.

I loathe racist people.

That is definitely true. Her kids are biracial and they always will be. They will always be both Latino and white and I get the feeling she wants them to be 'classy,' aka, in her mind, entirely white...which is odd, because she chose to breed with Latino men. That part of her is ugly and sad. I get the sense that she is obsessed with how other people think of her after being a pregnant teen with an alcoholic abusive mom and a deadbeat dad, and for that I'll always feel bad for her, and she clung to Jo and later Javi partly because they have such close-knit families and she never has and never will. But all that doesn't mean you throw people or entire cultures under the bus because you had an abusive childhood. Hopefully, as she matures, she will learn and become less ignorant. She is going to college; hopefully she has become or will become less close-minded and ignorant. College opens a lot of people's minds. I would love to see her teaching Isaac and Lincoln to be proud of their mixed racial backgrounds.

 

I've noticed similar things with people like Jenelle, who is a homophobe or at least pretended to be when she was with trashy Nathan...after having that abusive, trashy, and disturbing childhood, I guess you try to be 'better' than SOMEBODY.

 

However, I think with the TMs, 'great mom' is always relative...compared to Leah, Jenelle, Farrah, Amber, even Cate....? At least she feeds her kids more than crap, regularly educates them and does activities with them, keeps them clean and in bed on time, and still has custody of them, lol. And she did work several jobs at a time to help provide for herself and her son, even after having been kicked out of two homes as a pregnant teen. That's pretty damn impressive and brave, no matter who you are. Lots of people are racist, but unfortunately that would be the least of, say, Amber's problems as a mom. I would assume Maci has some racist and homophobic ideas as well, being the holier-than-thou, intense slut-shamer she is.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Lm2162

[Tatum]

Kailyn is definitely one of the better moms. 100%. Especially considering where she comes from. Maybe not likable, maybe not some amazing wife, but she's inarguably a great mother. Maybe even better than Chelsea as she actually seems to discipline her sons and expect them to behave. Aubree is cute now but she will be a terror.

Well I can't argue that she's one of the better moms. I mean, three of her cohorts regularly neglect their kids, while two of them have passed their kids off to family members for a significant portion of their lives (Farrah and Cate).

I will also agree that on top of meeting their basic needs, both her sons are happy and healthy, and Isaac in particular is a very nurturing and polite child, credit of which most likely goes to Kail.

That said, I can't agree she's a "great" mother. I do believe she tries to undermine Jo as a father, she's filed a protection order against him under false pretenses, and she tries to get Isaac to side with her against Jo. She should not be putting him in the middle.

[Maharincess]

Kailyn is definitely one of the better moms. 100%. Especially considering where she comes from. Maybe not likable, maybe not some amazing wife, but she's inarguably a great mother. Maybe even better than Chelsea as she actually seems to discipline her sons and expect them to behave. Aubree is cute now but she will be a terror.

We've actually seen Isaac acting out just as much if not more than Aubree. Aubree isn't a terror, she's been shown having a tantrum or two but she's a kid, it's what they do. I haven't seen any evidence at all that would point to Aubree being a brat.

As far as discipline goes, I wouldn't discipline on camera either. I remember Maci taking Bentley into the bathroom and swatting his butt and she was torn a new one over it.

With discipline any mom is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't because there's always a mom out there who does it differently and thinks her way is better.

[ReadMeLattice]

I remember seeing maybe one issue with Isaac ever, while Aubree seems to act out at school and home on the regular and get rewarded with ice cream, but maybe I'm forgetting something...? We've seen tantrum after tantrum from her and Chelsea doesn't even say "no." I remember Kailyn being pretty strict the one time we saw Isaac have a meltdown.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Lm2162

[Elizabeth9]

I wonder if part of the reason she tries so hard as a mom is because it's all part of her mission to prove "I'm not white trash anymore!"

Negating a major portion of your child's identity is a pretty shitty thing to do as a mom.

[Brooklynista]

Not that Kail gives a shit, but I wonder how Javi feels about  Kail wanting her boys raised as "white".    How does Lincoln's abuela feel about her grand being told that his white half is better?  And why does Kail keep laying with Spanish men if she wants this full Waspy life?

[ReadMeLattice]

He definitely defended her and said she wasn't racist and that was ridiculous. Made me wonder and give him the side eye.

[BitterApple]

Not that Kail gives a shit, but I wonder how Javi feels about Kail wanting her boys raised as "white". How does Lincoln's abuela feel about her grand being told that his white half is better? And why does Kail keep laying with Spanish men if she wants this full Waspy life?

Kail sure doesn't get the concept of irony. Jo's Hispanic parents were comfortably middle class business owners with a spacious home in a nice subdivision. Blonde-haired, blue-eyed Kail was born in the gutter. It's really upsetting to see her display this kind of attitude when both Jo's and Javi's families have been incredibly gracious and helpful to her. I grew up in a wealthy, WASP-y suburb and if Kail had gotten pregnant by one of the boys I went to school with, his parents would've told her to fuck off and have a nice life, prior to releasing the hounds, lol. She has no idea how lucky she was to have the Riveras.

[ReadMeLattice]

Um, then they would be disgusting people, because I'm pretty sure the guy has as much of a role in creating that baby as the girl. So yeah, I guess she was "lucky" in that the people weren't absolutely morally bankrupt. I mean, that's their grandkid. Who "releases the hounds" on the person carrying their grandkid? That goes for the opposite way too-- I can't stand when people act like some guy "made" their daughter get pregnant. It was a MUTUAL decision not to be safe and both have to reap the consequences. Jo also could have chosen to have sex with a girl with a more stable family situation if he didn't want to deal with all that.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Lm2162

[Tatum]

Um, then they would be disgusting people, because I'm pretty sure the guy has as much of a role in creating that baby as the girl. So yeah, I guess she was "lucky" in that the people weren't absolutely morally bankrupt. I mean, that's their grandkid. Who "releases the hounds" on the person carrying their grandkid? That goes for the opposite way too-- I can't stand when people act like some guy "made" their daughter get pregnant. It was a MUTUAL decision not to be safe and both have to reap the consequences. Jo also could have chosen to have sex with a girl with a more stable family situation if he didn't want to deal with all that.

 

I think the point the poster was making was that the WASPy, upper class group of parents to which Kail so aspires to be a part of would have left her to fend for herself, while the kindhearted hispanic Riveras supported her both financially and emotionally. Not that all WASPs are heartless, just making a point that Kail seems to forget.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Tatum

[BitterApple]

I think the point the poster was making was that the WASPy, upper class group of parents to which Kail so aspires to be a part of would have left her to fend for herself, while the kindhearted hispanic Riveras supported her both financially and emotionally. Not that all WASPs are heartless, just making a point that Kail seems to forget.

Thank you. I was just trying to say that if Mail thinks the grass would've been greener on the other side, she's sorely mistaken.

[ReadMeLattice]

Yeah, definitely agree there, though I don't know if they did anything especially incredible. They freaked out and made her life miserable after she started dating another guy after their son had broken up with her (not the other way around) and asked her to move to the basement. They acted personally affronted by their 16 year old breakup drama. I understand supporting your son, but that whole thing was pretty ridiculous. Then Kailyn got two jobs, managed to graduate, and moved out on her own even when she was getting it from all sides and had no parents. The girl is definitely racist and unpleasant, but I'll always respect her for her strength at that age on some level. Jo always had it extremely easy and he still can't manage to work or go to school.

[Tatum]

They didn't freak out on her. I believe they asked both Kail and Jo to refrain from dating while living in their house. If Kail did not like those rules, she was free to move out. Instead, she told them she agreed to their rules, and then informed them she was in a relationship via Facebook. Real mature there.

 

And I do think it was incredibly kind of them. Janet held Kail's hand and listened to her cry about her shitty parents. She yelled at Jo to be more supportive of Kail when Kail would break down in hormonal crying fits. She regularly played referee and did not give Jo any preferential treatment. Kail was over 18 when she moved to the basement of the Riveras' house- they were under no obligation to support her and Jo wanted her gone. Janet ignored Jo and told her she could live there- for free- provided she was neat and did not invite any drama by starting any new romantic relationships. Kail ignored her and did it anyways. I don't think it was unforgivable that an 18 year old with no real family support turned to a new boyfriend, but Janet's request was not unreasonable.

 

Kail also moved in with her mother for a short time until her mom's boyfriend left her a note calling her a pig. She would change Isaac's diaper and just leave it out after she was done. That's gross.

 

For someone who has come from nothing, she does not act very grateful when someone goes out of their way for her. She just acts like it's something she's entitled to based on her bad childhood.

[Maharincess]

Yeah Tatum, that's how I remember it too, I sure don't remember them making Karl's life miserable. Although following the rules obviously made Karl miserable so there's that.

[ReadMeLattice]

Janet acted as if it was a personal affront against her son to date others; he made it about betraying "him" even though she had no obligation to him as he had left her. Janet was kind, but their son played an equal role in the creation of a new human with a young woman he knew had zero money or family support. She likely felt partially responsible because Jo was always fairly callous and not pulling his weight. It wasn't technically her responsibility, no, but Jo's continued immature and inappropriate behavior towards the mother of her grandchild likely made her pity Kail. He didn't fulfill his responsibilities and still continues not to do so (remaining uneducated, refusing to work, being arrested more than once). Maybe she feels he's a bad egg, I don't know.

I also don't agree that you can force an adult not to date outside the home even if you are providing a place for them to stay. Living there with her son's child didn't make her Janet's property outside the home, and she was not a minor. If she had brought a guy to the house or engaged in things like drinking (as Jo did) that would extend to her parental responsibilities or Janet's home, I would agree that it was a reasonable request. Instead, she behaved as if Kailyn was being unfaithful to her son when he had left her and wanted her to live apart and penniless. She overstepped her bounds in that area, IMO. After that happened, Kailyn did work to be able to move out.

Her mom's boyfriend left a cruel note for someone who was not his daughter and her mom agreed. She straight up said that she would always put her boyfriends before Kailyn because she was in love with them. She was also an alcoholic. How classy was their life that Kailyn was making it so much worse? I can definitely see your point about Janet, though I do think she was too controlling and Jo will always be fundamentally selfish. Both of them were strong willed, headstrong, and immature, and it was much more their fault than Janet's. There's no excuse for anything Kailyn's mom and her boyfriends did or do, though. They are trash. I wouldn't want my alcoholic mom putting her revolving door of boyfriends before me and letting them tell me off, either.

[Maharincess]

A cruel note? He told her to clean her room and said they don't live like pigs. That's not cruel.

Besides that, all we have to go on in regards to that note is Karl's word, she's a proven liar so I don't believe a word she says.

[Tatum]

I also don't agree that you can force an adult not to date outside the home even if you are providing a place for them to stay. Living there with her son's child didn't make her Janet's property outside the home, and she was not a minor.

 

 

Well no, you can't "force" someone to not date. But you can make up whatever rules you want to for someone living in your house. Whether or not in Kail's estimation her dating Jordan would cause drama, Janet made her feelings clear. The deal was, Kail wouldn't date, and she could live there. If Kail thought that was overstepping, she didn't have to stay there. And if she had nowhere else safe to go, then I think she could have held off dating for awhile.

 

Jo was a jerk to Kail, no doubt, during the early years. His resentment of being tied to her was evident, and frustrating, given it was as much his choice to be careless as it was hers. But Jo has a seemingly decent relationship with Vee. Kail cheated on Jordan, reportedly cheated on Javi, hit Javi, and falsely accused Jo of abuse. The common denominator in those cases is Kail. In addition, she has been disrespectful to both Jo and Javi's families, while they are taking care of her children while she runs off drinking with her friends and getting tattoos and plastic surgery. She's a bitch.

 

Maharincess- I think the note to Kail was zoomed in during the episode. I don't remember it all, but I definitely remember reading that Kail left Isaac's shit diapers out on the floor when she was done changing him. That would make me mad too.

[GreatKazu]

Cruel note???

The Riveras freaked out on Kail?

LOL Oy vey. Where is Kim Fields? I need her here..."Show the fucking tape!!!"

Advising someone with two jobs and who likely lived rent free in Suzi's boyfriend's apartment, to be clean and keep your room clutter and trash free, is not being cruel. It is the truth. It was not Suzi's place. It was the guy's apartment. Chances are if you live like a pig in my home, you will get a talking to about keeping your room clean, too.

Anyone else remember the dog shitting in Kail's apartment when Javi was first living with her? Kail could not bother to clean it up. Fucking gross.

Edited April 11, 2016 by GreatKazu

[ghoulina]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't part of the issue with Kail dating Jordan the fact that she STARTED dating him before they were officially broke up? Or at the very least, was having Jo drop her off for playdates and lying about it? The entire way she went about it was very shady. And I agree that you can make whatever rules you want for someone living in your house. The Riveras did a lot for Kail. Jordan was just some weird rebound relationship, she never acted like she gave two figs about him. It was about getting her confidence back, at the expense of a probably sweet kid. And then she turned around and cheated on HIM. 

 

But I digress...I think Janet was always very fair. Jo was an ass to Kail in the early years and Janet would call him out on it. I just think she didn't tolerate BS. Kail lied to her and she didn't appreciate it. I know Kail had a rough upbringing, but when is she going to learn to appreciate people who help you out, instead of walking over them as you climb your way up?

[Tatum]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't part of the issue with Kail dating Jordan the fact that she STARTED dating him before they were officially broke up? Or at the very least, was having Jo drop her off for playdates and lying about it?

I think they were officially broken up. However, that was the rule of the house, and Kail broke it for a period of time before admitting- via facebook- that she was dating someone new. She not only accepted rides from Jo for dates (and I think borrowed his car on occasion), but also asked Jo's brother to babysit while she met up with Jordan. He believed she was at school when he agreed to watch Isaac. It was majorly sleazy how she went about it.

 

  I know Kail had a rough upbringing, but when is she going to learn to appreciate people who help you out, instead of walking over them as you climb your way up?

Probably never. Kail doesn't seem to see people that go out of their way to help her as anything other than them giving her her just due. Her rationale seems to be, if you had a better childhood than me, you need to atone for your good fortune by doing what I want.

[BitterApple]

I respect all opinions, I'm just of the belief that Janet had the right to set the rules on the house she owns and pays the mortgage for.

I do think Kail has had a lot to overcome in life. In a way, I admire her success more than someone like Chelsea, who always had Randy at the end of the day. Isaac and Lincoln are bright kids, so her, Jo and Javi are doing something right despite their petty dramas. I just wish she'd adjust her attitude and be grateful. Most teen mothers would kill to be in Kail's position.

Edited April 11, 2016 by BitterApple

[ReadMeLattice]

I agree that Janet did a lot for Kail, and I respect people's beliefs that she should have been able to tell Kailyn not to date; I just don't understand how it's her business what Kail does outside of the house when her son broke up with her and she was 18. I also maintain that part of the reason she treated her well was because she felt partially responsible for her son's behavior...she also claimed he cheated on her while she was pregnant, and he never denied it, so it's unclear who did what except that they had no business being together and had a toxic relationship for a long time. And he was living in his mother's house, so I'm not sure why Kailyn was demonized for dating after the dude left her. Was it immature? Sure. They were both bratty little teens. I remember some of the fights getting pretty damn ugly. It's always been curious to me that Jo came from some money and a seemingly nice family and acts like such trash. 

 

The statement "me and your mom don't live like trash" that the boyfriend made was blatantly untrue. He was shacking up with an alcoholic who has historically chosen Kailyn last after substances and all of her boyfriends a la Jenelle, and who later watched Kail's son while drinking and lying about it. She disappeared for days at a time and abandoned her pregnant teen daughter. If Jenelle is irredeemable for such behavior, so is Suzi. (About the note, I didn't see anything about Isaac's diapers on there, just that she needed to clean and 'dust' the rooms more. And why is a grown man leaving a teenager who's not his own kid a handwritten note like a 6th grader?)

[Tatum]

I can't argue with that. I have no love for Suzy. I remember when she was talking to Janet and joking about how kailyn needs to "let her go" so she can have a chance to miss Kail, or something like that. She's laughing at her own selfishness and Janet just stares at her with a bitch, please look on her face.

Although Suzy did help Kail in later episodes, you'll never convince me that wasn't motivated by the money and d list coming to Kail. Not impressed with either woman.

[GreatKazu]

A note was left for Kail because she was not home a lot of the time. You yourself posted she worked two jobs. Kail also went with friends. She also had school. I feel as if there is much ado about nothing. A guy leaves a note to someone who is not home, not to mention the guy himself worked. Two ships passing in the night is more like it, not some adult behaving like a 6th grader.

Anyone else remember the card Kail gave to Janet where she apologized to her and thanked her for being there for her like a mother? Many will likely remember. Some may not. It happened. Is that behaving like a 6th grader since she did not tell Janet to her face? Rhetorical question.

Kail looked up to Janet. Suzi gave Janet the authority to take care of Kail. More like she dumped Kail on Janet. Whatever, the point is Janet treated Kail like a daughter (just as Kail made clear in her card to Janet) and was guiding her because her concern was Kail would find herself pregnant again. If Kail is to be believed, she had been date raped. She also became pregnant prior to meeting Jo. Janet likely felt the need to try and protect Kail as any mother would with their daughter.

Cheating on Jo, and having the audacity to have Jo drop her off to meet Jordan behind Jo's back, not to mention lying about going to work oand school and using Jo's brother as a babysitter so Kail could go cheat, set things in motion. Kail also cheated on Jo with a girl. Jordan was not her only fling.

Being 18 years of age has no bearing on whether one should follow rules or not when they choose to live for free in someone else's home. Janet could have told Kail to earn her keep by selling lemonade on a daily in the front yard. Her house, her rules.

Kail had Jo arrested for non-support? I don't believe Kail. I would need proof. This reminds me of Farrah's claim about her parents being arrested, but no one has been able to find any record of such an arrest. In my county, parents who do not pay support have their driver's license revoked. They also have their tax refund garnished. It would have to be a huge sum owing for one to be arrested.

[ReadMeLattice]

A note was left for Kail because she was not home a lot of the time. You yourself posted she worked two jobs. Kail also went with friends. She also had school. I feel as if there is much ado about nothing. A guy leaves a note to someone who is not home, not to mention the guy himself worked. Two ships passing in the night is more like it, not some adult behaving like a 6th grader.

Anyone else remember the card Kail gave to Janet where she apologized to her and thanked her for being there for her like a mother? Many will likely remember. Some may not. It happened. Is that behaving like a 6th grader since she did not tell Janet to her face? Rhetorical question.

Kail looked up to Janet. Suzi gave Janet the authority to take care of Kail. More like she dumped Kail on Janet. Whatever, the point is Janet treated Kail like a daughter (just as Kail made clear in her card to Janet) and was guiding her because her concern was Kail would find herself pregnant again. If Kail is to be believed, she had been date raped. She also became pregnant prior to meeting Jo. Janet likely felt the need to try and protect Kail as any mother would with their daughter.

Cheating on Jo, and having the audacity to have Jo drop her off to meet Jordan behind Jo's back, not to mention lying about going to work oand school and using Jo's brother as a babysitter so Kail could go cheat, set things in motion. Kail also cheated on Jo with a girl. Jordan was not her only fling.

Being 18 years of age has no bearing on whether one should follow rules or not when they choose to live for free in someone else's home. Janet could have told Kail to earn her keep by selling lemonade on a daily in the front yard. Her house, her rules.

Kail had Jo arrested for non-support? I don't believe Kail. I would need proof. This reminds me of Farrah's claim about her parents being arrested, but no one has been able to find any record of such an arrest. In my county, parents who do not pay support have their driver's license revoked. They also have their tax refund garnished. It would have to be a huge sum owing for one to be arrested.

However, just pointing out that 1) this was not Kailyn's first rodeo with yet another of Suzi's boyfriends. If at 18, Kaiser is living with his mom after having a child and while working two jobs and her 700th dick is mad at him about something, I've got to be honest that I wouldn't blame him for being pissed and leaving. Maybe some would feel that she "owed him respect" but at that point I'd be fucking over it and my mom's entire trashy bit, especially if she had done it my whole life and neglected me due to said boyfriends, unabashedly and with no apology, and openly said she loved me less than them. I wouldn't much care about what they thought of me, either. It'd be the last straw at some point. 2) Kail did not cheat on Jo. He had already left her. 3) Jo was arrested for more than just child support; he was arrested in 2014 for drugs and was in the car with someone who was intoxicated (or high?) and, I believe, got a DUI. Not the worst thing in the world, but the only arrest he's ever had was not just for child support, just to clarify. Delaware child support laws do specifically mention incarceration as one possible result if you don't pay. Kailyn has her own issues but Jo is no angel.

[Tatum]

With regards to #2, GK is probably referring to Jo's accusations that Kail cheated on him with one of his friends when she was pregnant.

Jo was not nice to Kail during her 16 and pregnant episode. He clearly wanted her to get an abortion and resented her for not doing it. He was rude and distant and I don't envy Kail for having a selfish addict for a mother and an indifferent father, relying on the generosity of her boyfriend's mother when her boyfriend had grown tired of her and just wanted her gone, even knowing she had nowhere else to go. That was selfish of him. But Jo was the only Rivera to show her any unkindness. Janet and Jo's dad treated her well, and Jo's brother often agreed to watch Isaac for free while kailyn was at class and Jo was at work. Among other things, Kail's complete ingratitude to the family that went above and beyond for her has always really irritated me about her.

[Christina]

Kail accused Jo of having been arrested for non-payment of child support. Jo denied it. The teen mom tabloids tried to confirm it, and there was no record of him even being held until he paid. Everything points to it just being another one of her lies. He did say on one of the reunion shows that he had changed jobs and the auto withdrawal was behind about a month, and it had been caught up immediately. He also attended Northhamption Community College in PA, but maybe that isn't considered school for some people, since I've read a few times that he hasn't continued his education. It was what lead to his copier job, and I think it may have started as part of a high school program, but I'm not positive about that part. 

 

And I hate myself for remembering this, but I remember the Jordan thing with the Rivera's being in the kitchen and discussing Kail's FB post, with the mom saying that she thought they were back together since Kail had been sleeping in his room. It was the beginning of my really disliking her as a person. I thought her sneaking around was childish, but once I heard that she was playing both sides, I realized she was her mother's daughter. I was also proud of her for cutting her mom out of her life, because I think Suzy is toxic to her. I think she and Jo are toxic to each other, too, but they have Isaac, so they can't just stop communicating.

 

Also, I'm also of the opinion that the child support was a story line. The entire thing became so disjointed and dumb, none of us could figure out why he thought he would be bankrupted, and Vee took to Twitter to say he figured out how much he would owe online and that is why he was worried. The editing was so choppy on those scenes, you could tell they were cut and pasted together out of order. There is no way Kail would have just dropped it. I think that if she thought she was entitled to more, and I think it had been about 3 years since the last review, she would have agreed to an amount between them as long as he didn't push for more time. 

[ReadMeLattice]

He has not worked in over a year. He has admitted to that and laughed in Dr. Drew's face when he suggested a job. That much is inarguable. I would hesitate to think he finished out a degree at community college (he says he "studied there," which generally means "dropped out") unless I had proof, much as I take Kail's accusations with a grain of salt without proof.

You're right that the child support/arrest for that (though not for the drugs, that's documented) may have been a story line...all of it may have been, in fact, and this could all be quite unprovable.

It's ambiguous whether or not Jo cheated on Vee with Kail at the beginning of their relationship (when she cheated on Jordan) and Jo has also accused Kail of "trying" to cheat during her pregnancy. Kailyn accused Jo of cheating on her during her pregnancy. When she hooked up with Jordan, however, she and Jo were definitely not together. Since Jo has not proven to be any less trashy than Kail, I'm of the opinion that some hanky panky on both sides happened at inappropriate times when they were younger, though Kailyn is the only one who still gets called a whore for it. They were both immature, selfish asses. Kailyn has anger and abuse problems and Jo also appears to have problems with rage and laziness.

From a 2012 episode on why he hasn't paid any child support at all for months: "I could use that money for my music career." Really? K. But he's a great dad and not selfish at all.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Lm2162

[Maharincess]

This merry go round is making me dizzy.

[GreatKazu]

This merry go round is making me dizzy.

Tell me about it.

Come join us in the current conversation, girlfriend.

[Kace2923]

Where is the current conversation? Bc I have to talk about how Leah basically forgot Addy in the car going to Ali choir practice...and so many other things!!!

[lovesnark]

The thread titled 'No Access' is the latest episode thread. I know having  new episodes two nights in a row makes it confusing.

Edited April 12, 2016 by lovesnark

[Maharincess]

The merry go round is there too Kazu. It's making me so dizzy that I may vomit.

[blubld43]

The statement "me and your mom don't live like trash" that the boyfriend made was blatantly untrue. He was shacking up with an alcoholic who has historically chosen Kailyn last after substances and all of her boyfriends a la Jenelle, and who later watched Kail's son while drinking and lying about it. She disappeared for days at a time and abandoned her pregnant teen daughter. If Jenelle is irredeemable for such behavior, so is Suzi. (About the note, I didn't see anything about Isaac's diapers on there, just that she needed to clean and 'dust' the rooms more. And why is a grown man leaving a teenager who's not his own kid a handwritten note like a 6th grader?)

 

Word.  

I just find it hard to believe that Kail would have ever been nasty in her habits.  Her current home seem to be attractive and clean, her children are also clean and well cared for. I think Suzi's ex-boyfriend was just a dick.

Kail may be difficult, but she's doing a good job as a mom, and she had NO example to follow. Regardless of this latest argument between her and Jo, I hope they got it together, apologized, whatever.  They're both still young, immature in some ways, but I believe their kids will be okay; clearly their parents are really trying.  I give them both a lot of credit for putting Isaac first.  Just my opinion of course.

[CofCinci]

Word.

I just find it hard to believe that Kail would have ever been nasty in her habits. Her current home seem to be attractive and clean, her children are also clean and well cared for. I think Suzi's ex-boyfriend was just a dick.

Kail may be difficult, but she's doing a good job as a mom, and she had NO example to follow. Regardless of this latest argument between her and Jo, I hope they got it together, apologized, whatever. They're both still young, immature in some ways, but I believe their kids will be okay; clearly their parents are really trying. I give them both a lot of credit for putting Isaac first. Just my opinion of course.

Kail's home and children are neat because Javi's parents live with them.

[ghoulina]

IIRC, the house she lived in before Javi - or when they first got together - was not as well put together. I remember piles of stuff in her bedroom and dogs pooping inside. People can get cleaner as they mature, and if she has live in help, that explains a lot. I don't have any trouble believing she may have left poopy diapers laying around at one point. Personally, I think Kail and her mother are both toxic people who have probably done shitty (pun intended) stuff to each other, back and forth, over the years. Is it Suzy's fault because she was Kail's primary influence? Perhaps, to a degree. But Kail is an adult now and can choose to make better choices. She often does. But she also still acts quite passive aggressive, controlling, and bitchy at times. 

[FlowerofCarnage]

Not that Kail gives a shit, but I wonder how Javi feels about Kail wanting her boys raised as "white". How does Lincoln's abuela feel about her grand being told that his white half is better? And why does Kail keep laying with Spanish men if she wants this full Waspy life?

I would answer this but people might get offended.

[ReadMeLattice]

I don't think it's fair to say that they did things "back and forth" when Kailyn was a minor with an alcoholic,neglectful mother who regularly abandoned her for boyfriends. Maybe now, but she's certainly never done anything to her nearly as bad as that.

I'd be a total bitch to my mom if she told me to my face she loved me less than her latest live-in dick, too. If Kaiser is a jerk to Jenelle in the future, it will be 99% her fault, not 50%, and Suzi is basically Jenelle without the heroin history.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Lm2162

[ghoulina]

What I mean is, if Suzy is so toxic (and she probably is), Kail should cut her out of her life completely. We haven't seen her around lately, so maybe she actually did. But there was awhile there where it seemed like she would kind of play back and forth with her. Do I care about Suzy's feelings? No. But if Kail wants to be a better person than her mother was, she should stop manipulating people. She should stop being so cold and controlling. I don't see a point in being a bitch to the bitch who raised you and trying to get back at her. Just have nothing to do with her, period. 

[ReadMeLattice]

I think she tried because that IS her mom, but was ambivalent about it. Suzi would promise to be there for Kail and there for Isaac, then not show up or start using again. She watched the kids a couple times, everyone seemed happy, and then got drunk while watching Lincoln as an infant. I didn't ever see her being "manipulative" as much as repeatedly hurt in a predictable pattern. She seems to have cut off contact now, but it's hard when it's your own parent. You might hate them and their abuse but they are your parent. I assume you always hold out hope they'll be the unconditionally loving parent you longed for.

[ChristmasJones]

I hang out on a forum for people with personality disordered parents. They have a forum for people dealing with their PD parent, and a forum for people who have gone no contact with their parent. I just checked and there are 106,257 posts in the "dealing with" forum and 5,996 in the "no contact" forum.  It does not surprise me that the overwhelming majority of people with difficult parents do not go no contact.  This is the forum: http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php