Spoilers and Spoiled Speculation

[Kathemy]

On 12/6/2016 at 1:23 PM, Blackcanary said:

Chuffed with my mention there, thanks!

I think it was the specific reference to a blond child that threw me - I can't imagine Ed was ever a fair-haired kid. I wondered if it might tie in to us meeting Jim's uncle and their shared history.

T.J Scott confirmed that 15 starts filming today, and is written by Megan Mostyn-Brown (whose previous episodes include the Ed-and-Oswald-as-murder-roomies 'A bitter pill to swallow' and the hallucination-Jim-is-even-more-angsty 'Red Queen').

ETA: Ooh, i'm doubling down on my 'young Jim' prediction, given that Michael Park seems to be on set as Peter Gordon.

With the latest promo I think it's clear beyond a doubt that the chess player casting is for Edward in the upcoming episode.

[paigow]

It would be a hilarious coincidence if Nygma & Jerome independently choose the same chemical factory for their nefarious deeds. Since Kane Chemicals is not abandoned - still has live but slightly incompetent security - that makes it more unlikely.... 

[Miss Dee]

I'm excited to see Nygma go  full Riddler, but I'm here for the brief glimpse of Bruce street-fighting in the promo. He looked so *small*, and it makes me anxious for how he's really going to pull this off...

I love the idea of looking at the story from the "early days" angle; it's not really anything I've seen done before in a live-action Batman movie/show. He's always just kind of there, kicking ass. I doubt we'll see that on Gotham - A, it's encroaching on the movie franchise, and B, they're going to want to work with David Mazouz instead of an older actor. But now that they've introduced Superman on the show Supergirl, I think it's at least possible that Gotham will be allowed to show Mazouz as a kind of proto-Batman, learning the ropes and slowing transforming into classic Batman.

The long Neo-ish coat is a good choice to suggest the costume without the cape. Look forward to him getting a mask as well. Maybe, to fit in sensors for enhanced hearing or something, Lucius can add two little pointy ears at the top....

[Dame sans merci]

On 02/02/2017 at 7:56 PM, Kathemy said:

With the latest promo I think it's clear beyond a doubt that the chess player casting is for Edward in the upcoming episode.

Yep, it looked like he was planning to blow up the chess championships or something...? Why so hostile to your fellow geeks, Ed?

There doesn't seem to have been many spoiler-ish tidbits lately, but somebody did notice a trailer labelled 'Firefly' whilst they were snooping on some location filming. That would be for...episode 17, I think?

The only other thing of interest were some photos, taken during the filming of episode 16, showing Oswald (and a truly heinous jumper) and Ivy filming at a stately home. Alex Corrado who plays Gabe was there too.

Edited to amend previous post, as apparently those titles are not real. Oops!

Edited February 8, 2017 by Blackcanary

[Kathemy]

<Doux Reviews> <Gotham, shopping for Harlequin>

Just a little write-up I made about some possible upcoming events.

[Dame sans merci]

6 hours ago, Kathemy said:

<Doux Reviews> <Gotham, shopping for Harlequin>

Just a little write-up I made about some possible upcoming events.

Nice job Kathemy! I'd have been intrigued to see how it could play out with Lee, but Silver makes a certain amount of sense. I found the actress solid enough, if not riveting, first time around but i'm sure she could rise up to some decent material.

Just a heads up: I believe that 'How the Penguin lost his power' turned out to be a fake title - somebody from the show posted on Reddit to say all those titles (apart from the one for 15) were wrong.

[Kathemy]

Yeah, I've been a bit sceptical to those titles (especially since I've seen "became the mob" which is a far better title) but they are still listed on all the credible outlets, so I have to go with them.

"How the Riddler got his name" is certainly genuine, though.

[Trini]

Casting and upcoming storyline news: Alexander Siddig cast as Ra's al Ghul.

CRAP. Now I have to watch. But at least now there's a Ra's in the DCTV world I can be excited about.

[Kathemy]

Oh no. Not another Ra's al Ghul. Please.

Still, they did find the perfect casting. All hail Siddig el Fadil.

[Dame sans merci]

14 hours ago, Trini said:

Casting and upcoming storyline news: Alexander Siddig cast as Ra's al Ghul.

CRAP. Now I have to watch. But at least now there's a Ra's in the DCTV world I can be excited about.

That's a damn fine bit of casting. 

That being said...he's the power behind the Court of Owls? Hmmm. Think i'd have preferred to make them separate threats - escalate the threat from the city-wide conspiracy, to something international like the League of Assassins.

There was a recent casting call for people to play 'angry/infected citizens' so i'm wondering if we might get a nod to comic Ra's al Ghul's penchant for biological weapons in terms of using the Tetch virus to 'cleanse' the city. He's...not big on humanity.

ETA: Other casting calls include National Guard and Ninjas, so it's safe to say things are getting fairly crazy towards the end of the season. They also filmed a scene with a bomb blowing up a train station this week (the Riddler's handiwork maybe?).

Edited March 3, 2017 by Blackcanary

[paigow]

On 3/2/2017 at 3:01 PM, Trini said:

Casting and upcoming storyline news: Alexander Siddig cast as Ra's al Ghul.

CRAP. Now I have to watch. But at least now there's a Ra's in the DCTV world I can be excited about.

Is he the real one? Or a Nolanized decoy?

[Kathemy]

[Miss Dee]

Thanks @Kathemy! This looks really promising for Bruce and David Mazouz having a bigger role for the back half of the season.

[Kathemy]

In David we trust!

No, seriously. Seems like the show's realized who the true star of the show is.

[Dame sans merci]

21 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

In David we trust!

No, seriously. Seems like the show's realized who the true star of the show is.

I've just watched the media screener release of 'How the Riddler got his name' and it seems they are going somewhere very, very interesting with Bruce AND giving David an increased presence based on things set in motion in 15.

ETA: They've also released the title for episode 16 - 'these delicate and dark obsessions' (confirmation that those previously released titles were indeed fake).

Edited April 4, 2017 by Blackcanary

[Miss Dee]

Oh YAY! You've no idea how happy I am to hear that!!!

[Kostgard]

Ran across some promo stills for the next ep.

Considering how waterlogged Oswald looks, I'm assuming that's a hallucination. 

I'm brand new to the show - found it on Netflix a couple months ago and started watching on a whim and I'm caught up now. But one thing that struck me while watching was that Jim Gordon just doesn't seem like a very compelling protagonist. Not really the fault of BM or any one thing, I just find that I kinda skim over his scenes while enjoying the ones involving the villains or Bruce/Alfred more (though I will flat-out say I couldn't care less about his love life. In season two when Oswald delivered the giant eye roll in response to Lee's pregnancy announcement I was all, "Right there with you, brother"). All that is to say I'm glad that Bruce seems to be stepping up and playing a larger/more significant role in these coming episodes. 

Other thing that struck me as a newbie marathoning episodes (and this could be a dumb newbie question) - how is Isabella anything other than a "honey trap" a la the one Fish set up for Falcone in season one? I know so far on the show it's been kinda "Well, she's gone!" and they haven't talked about since she died, and I understand with Gotham "logic" isn't always at play, but...she looks just like the girlfriend Ed obsessed over and killed, she's into exactly the same things he's into, and wasn't spooked by Oswald's thinly veiled threats nor the fact that Ed was in Arkham for murdering more than one person? How is she anything other than a plant/trap? I've heard that Fish will be coming back onto the show, so it at least seems possible that she was behind it. So my question is did she do it to mess with Ed, or with Oswald (anyone paying any sort of attention to him would know that the best way to put him off-balance would be to drive a wedge between him and Ed)? And if she did it because of Oswald (rather than Ed), did she do it to help him (believing Ed was bad for him) or to harm him (knowing that separating him from Ed or setting Ed against him would be bad for him)?

Eh, I hope Fish is involved, if only because this feels like her MO and come on - they had to have put both Isabella and KK in "Kim Novak in Vertigo" drag for a reason, not just "Hey! She looks just like KK! What a coincidence!" If they don't cash in on that, it feels like a real missed opportunity.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Kostgard

[Kathemy]

On 4/7/2017 at 9:54 PM, Kostgard said:

I'm brand new to the show - found it on Netflix a couple months ago and started watching on a whim and I'm caught up now. But one thing that struck me while watching was that Jim Gordon just doesn't seem like a very compelling protagonist. Not really the fault of BM or any one thing, I just find that I kinda skim over his scenes while enjoying the ones involving the villains or Bruce/Alfred more (though I will flat-out say I couldn't care less about his love life. In season two when Oswald delivered the giant eye roll in response to Lee's pregnancy announcement I was all, "Right there with you, brother"). All that is to say I'm glad that Bruce seems to be stepping up and playing a larger/more significant role in these coming episodes. 

Jim Gordon being the weakest link of the show is a rather common opinion which I would tend to agree with. I addressed the issue in a recent review,

Quote

Gotham cast Jim Gordon as their lead character "everyman". There's nothing inherently wrong with using an everyman as a show's lead character; Clark Kent on Smallville, for all that show's faults, often worked well in that role. 

The issue is how you use him. An everyman works in contrast to the show's crazy and flamboyant villains. Everyone liked Jim's scenes with Nygma and Cobblepot - in fact, Jim and Ozzie was the show's first popular romantic ship.

One reason for utilizing an everyman lead on this show is to make it accessible to those who aren't familiar with the source material. Jim fails in that role. As anotherearnestlook†, one of my closer online friends pointed out to me, "Jim doesn't explain anything to me, a person unfamiliar with canon. He hasn't even featured in the whole Court of Owls scenario."

However, the main purpose of an everyman lead no matter the show is to tie up all elements and storylines. Jim failing to do that as well is another reason the episodes feel so disjointed.

Instead, the majority of his screentime is spent on his own love story with an "everywoman". Reminiscent of a daytime soap, as these two characters have no intrinsic obstacles to their relationship Gotham goes about either whipping up artificial roadblocks or forcing them out of character in order to keep them in a constant state of flux. This makes for synthetic and repetitive melodrama.

http://www.douxreviews.com/2016/12/gotham-beware-green-eyed-monster.html

It should be said, Gotham is my favorite show on television.

[tv echo]

Gotham - Episode 3.15 - How The Riddler Got His Name - Promos, Promotional Photos & Press Release *Updated*
Posted by Nirat Anop at April 08, 2017 
http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/01/gotham-episode-315-promo.html

Quote

RIDDLE ME THIS ON THE ALL-NEW SPRING PREMIERE OF "GOTHAM" MONDAY, APRIL 24, ON FOX

Nygma convinces himself that he doesn't need Penguin to succeed and begins to introduce himself to Gotham as "The Riddler." Bullock and Lucius Fox get caught up in Nygma's mind games, while Gordon learns troubling news about his father's death. Meanwhile, the Court of the Owls reveals its next move in the all-new "Heroes Rise: How The Riddler Got His Name" spring premiere episode of GOTHAM airing Monday, April 24 (8:00-9:01 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (GTH-315) (TV-14 L, V)
*  *  *
Guest Cast: James Remar as Frank Gordon, H. Foley as Winston Peters

GOTHAM PREMIERE: Riddler Takes Over
Published on Apr 10, 2017, by DC Entertainment

Edited April 11, 2017 by tv echo

[Kostgard]

On 4/8/2017 at 4:31 PM, Kathemy said:

Jim Gordon being the weakest link of the show is a rather common opinion which I would tend to agree with. I addressed the issue in a recent review,

 

Completely agree with your take in your review. Especially the bit about how Jim is far more interesting when he is forced to pair up with a villain. I've enjoyed the times he's had to work with Oswald - with Oswald delighted over having an in with a cop and having a new BFF (in his mind) while Jim is spending the whole time trying not to barf all over his shoes due to his compromised morals.

That's why I like the possibilities from these pics taken when they were shooting the season finale. It looks like Jim might have Oswald in custody, but I'm hoping that it also means that they are forced to work together again. 

[Perfect Xero]

I think that Jim is Okay, he's good with Oswald, Ed, Bullock, Selina, psycho Babs, Bruce and Alfred; This show just kind of sucks at writing romance plots and adult women who aren't insane criminals. Look at what they did to poor Montoya back in Season 1 and the random mess that was Barbara before she snapped.

So Jim gets the double hit of being in romance plots that no one is really going to care about and having to play off of one of the normal women they have no idea how to write for.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Perfect Xero

[Kathemy]

23 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I think that Jim is Okay, he's good with Oswald, Ed, Bullock, Selina, psycho Babs, Bruce and Alfred; This show just kind of sucks at writing romance plots and adult women who aren't insane criminals.

I partially disagree, I think Bruce and Selina is among the best written and acted romance plots on television.

[Perfect Xero]

27 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

I partially disagree, I think Bruce and Selina is among the best written and acted romance plots on television.

The actors do a great job with it but Bruce and Selina are just following a tween version of the dynamic that's laid out in the comic. They get closer, she gets pissed at him (usually about something to do with his morality relative to hers), they cool down for a bit. Repeat. Personally I'm getting a bit bored with the cycle repeating, but the fact that they're both good characters and exist and have strong roles on the show independent of their relationship helps a lot with making their dynamic work too.

The Bruce/Selina relationship is actually really similar to the dynamic that existed between Jim and Oswald in the first few seasons, and it's probably not a coincidence that Jim/Oswald has been a fan favorite in contrast to his relationships with S1 Barbara and Lee.

Good person interacts with person of looser morality is easy.

Good person interacts with good person is much harder to do with out it becoming the dreaded "BORING", which is the problem they run into with Jim's romantic relationships. They're afraid of boring so they throw outside obstacles and tragedy at it.

[Kathemy]

18 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

The actors do a great job with it but Bruce and Selina are just following a tween version of the dynamic that's laid out in the comic. They get closer, she gets pissed at him (usually about something to do with his morality relative to hers), they cool down for a bit. Repeat. Personally I'm getting a bit bored with the cycle repeating, but the fact that they're both good characters and exist and have strong roles on the show independent of their relationship helps a lot with making their dynamic work too.

I have to disagree with that too. The relationship isn't cyclic, it's a dialectical process. The so-called "tween version" - sixteen-year-old kids are tweens now? - has more depth and nuance to it than any previous incarnation of the relationship in any medium.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Kathemy
ETA

[Kostgard]

Preview for episode 15 where CMS talks a bit about Nygma's journey in the episode and why he's having Oswald hallucinations.

Spring trailer for the rest of the season

Looks like Selina gets her Catwoman transformation scene, Fish and Strange are back (and they maybe-accidentally reveal that Oswald is still alive because in the shot of Fish you can see Oswald on the left side of the frame - ETA: Ed is in that shot too, standing next to Oswald, so...huh. I guess it still could be hallucination Oswald, but all the same - we know he's still alive), and Lee has flat-ironed hair and a lot of eyeliner, which is shorthand for "someone's breaking bad."

Edited April 17, 2017 by Kostgard

[Kathemy]

Plus Thomas Wayne Jr (or "Five", if that's your cup of tea) is apparently trying to ice Tabs and Babs.

[Spartan Girl]

Honestly, I don't want Lee to rip off Babs' storyline. Either have her be a plant for the Owl League or just kill her off at the end of the season. Either way, bitch has got to go.

[SimoneS]

Wow, I love the upcoming arc for Bruce. We are seeing the seeds of Batman. 

[Kathemy]

Honestly this upcoming run of episodes look SUPER lit.

[Kostgard]

Despite Fox's terrible scheduling of this show, they are doing a decent job of trying to promote the new bunch of episodes and have released a lot of clips/promos:

Bruce and Alfred

Harvey and Ed

Ed and his latest disappointing candidate for mentor

[tv echo]

May Sweeps Preview and Finale Spoilers
April 24, 2017
http://tvline.com/gallery/may-sweeps-spoilers-2017-finale-episodes-photos/#!12/sweeps-gotham/

Quote

GOTHAM
PRE-FINALE: When last we tuned in, Nygma sent Penguin to sleep with the fishes, “But in Gotham you can’t keep a bad man down,” exec producer John Stephens warns. “Oswald’s a hard one to kill.” Nygma himself, meanwhile, “takes that next step towards becoming a supervillain,” including the acquisition of the Riddler nickname. The emergence of Frank Gordon leads nephew Jim to “realize that he has sort of a family legacy with the Court of Owls, and he’ll have to choose against that to take it down.” Elsewhere, Raymond J. Barry (Justified, pictured) plays a shaman who “in a very iconic way” nudges Bruce toward his fate, while Ra’s al Ghul (Deep Space Nine‘s Alexander Siddig), we come to realize, “has been a presence in Bruce’s life for a long time” — a revelation that sets the stage for any possible Season 4.
SEASON FINALE (JUNE 5, two episodes):  The end of the Jim/Lee storyline leads to a “rebirth” of the characters as “much darker, more dangerous, almost evil versions of themselves,” says Stephens. Bruce meanwhile “takes his biggest step forward yet to becoming the Dark Knight,” and Selina “get her whip.” Reeer!

Edited April 24, 2017 by tv echo

[Dame sans merci]

We're getting 'almost evil' Jim? Whaaaa....?

Also, I have now seen episode 16 and it's....a bit of a mixed bag. The Oswald/Ivy stuff is terrific though.

[Danielg342]

Seems to be the default destiny whenever the show has a character they don't know what to do with- make them evil. They did it with Barbara (before forgetting she existed) and now we're doing that with Jim.

Boy, this show lost its marbles years ago. They're really just making it up as they go along.

[Kathemy]

Quote

 

3×17 – “HEROES RISE: THE PRIMAL RIDDLE” SYNOPSIS

The synopsis for episode 17 of “Gotham” season 3 was released, and you can read it below (beware of spoilers!):

GOTHAM’S MOST UNHINGED VILLAINS UNITE ON AN ALL-NEW “GOTHAM” MONDAY, MAY 8, ON FOX

Mr. Freeze (Guest Star Nathan Darrow) and Firefly (Guest Star Camila Perez) Return

Some of Gotham’s most unhinged villains band together, while The Riddler continues his conquest of the city. Gordon is on a search for answers and all roads keep leading him back to the Court of Owls. Meanwhile, as Alfred begins to notice a change in Bruce, Bruce 2 confides in Selina (Camren Bicondova) in the all-new “Heroes Rise: The Primal Riddle” episode of GOTHAM airing Monday, May 8 (8:00-9:01 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (GTH-317) (TV-14 L, V)

 

So, this is the episode where Thomas pushes Selina out the window, I presume.

[Dame sans merci]

Have my advance preview for episode 17, 'The primal riddle'.

I want to marry this episode and have little evil, well-dressed babies with it.

[Kostgard]

1 hour ago, Blackcanary said:

Have my advance preview for episode 17, 'The primal riddle'.

I want to marry this episode and have little evil, well-dressed babies with it.

 

Thanks for that sneak peek! I'm looking forward to Gotham pulling off the greatest miracle of all - Jim with an interesting storyline!

And I'm glad to see the direction you say they go with Ed. The scene between him and Lucius in the car two episodes ago was one of my favorites in the entire series, both because it was nice to see someone approach him with empathy, but also because it highlighted that this isn't just wacky fun times with a Batman villain - Ed was seriously unraveling. And I think that is canon with at least some of the comics - that The Riddler is not just some wacky evil guy, but that he has some serious problems.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Kostgard

[Kathemy]

Thanks, Blackcanary. I'm going into lockdown mode now. I won't read your advance review and I won't watch any promos. :-)

(Maybe not the best result for traffic, but hey ho, I gotta be honest! ;)

[SnarkyTart]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 6:09 AM, Blackcanary said:

Have my advance preview for episode 17, 'The primal riddle'.

I want to marry this episode and have little evil, well-dressed babies with it.

That was a well-done and enjoyable read.  Thanks for sharing!

[Dame sans merci]

13 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

That was a well-done and enjoyable read.  Thanks for sharing!

Thank you, that's very kind of you! 

It's much, much easier to write these previews for an episode as good as this one...

[Dame sans merci]

Advance review for 'Light the wick'.

Not a patch on last week's episode, but i'm impressed that they're managing to make Jim engaging at long last.

[Kostgard]

Thanks again for the sneak peek. I was thinking last night that this week's episode had some of my favorite Jim stuff in a really long time, and a really good performance from Ben McKenzie (specifically the scene in the car with Ed and how torn he was over handing Ed over to the Court). I'm glad that the trend continues.

I am kinda bummed about the Ivy bit, though. I was afraid that would happen and is something that this show does a little too often - keeps relying on the same crutch to push things through and the same things happen to characters over and over again.

Here is a clip from the next episode. Probably the Jim/Oswald scene your review refers to.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Kostgard

[Spartan Girl]

LOL at the review rightfully likening Lee to a dementor.

[Kostgard]

Promo pics for episode 19.

Episode Synopsis:

Quote

IT'S JUDGEMENT DAY ON AN ALL-NEW "GOTHAM" MONDAY, MAY 22, ON FOX

Temple Shaman reveals his hand to Bruce Wayne and sets up the next phase of training. Gordon and Bullock are put into danger as they come across a crystal owl that reveals the most coveted secrets of Gotham's underworld. Meanwhile, Nygma and Penguin are forced to work together to get out of a tricky situation in the all-new "Heroes Rise: All Will Be Judged" episode of GOTHAM airing Monday, May 22 (8:00-9:01 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (GTH-319) (TV-14 L, V).

Read more:Listings - GOTHAM on FOX | TheFutonCritic.comhttp://www.thefutoncritic.com/listings/20170503fox01/#ixzz4gtTtVVra

Ed and Oswald carrying a crowbar and splattered in blood? Aw, are they murder husbands again (at least temporarily)?

And someone finally figured out how to superglue the crystal owl back together.

 

And here's the synopsis for episode 20:

Quote

TICK TOCK, THE VIRUS IS ON THE CLOCK ON AN ALL-NEW "GOTHAM" MONDAY MAY 29, ON FOX

Jada Pinkett Smith Returns as Fish Mooney

Gordon races against the clock to save the city from the Alice Tetch virus, when Lee Thompkins (Morena Baccarin) intercepts with a plan of her own. Also, Alfred sees a big change in Bruce Wayne after his work with The Shaman (guest star Raymond J. Barry). Meanwhile, some of Gotham's most deranged villains band together in the all-new "Heroes Rise: Pretty Hate Machine" episode of GOTHAM airing Monday, May 29 (8:00-9:01 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (GTH-320) (TV-14 L, V)

Read more:Listings - GOTHAM on FOX | TheFutonCritic.comhttp://www.thefutoncritic.com/listings/20170510fox01/#ixzz4gtUEL6Xe

Episodes 21&22 are going to air together as a two-part finale.

 

 

ETA: Here's another clip from episode 18

 

ETA again: One more clip from 3x18

 

Aw, look at Jim detecting and shit and being useful!

Edited May 15, 2017 by Kostgard

[Dame sans merci]

Advance review for episode 19 to come later in the week, but just briefly: Absolutely. bloody. bonkers.

Also possibly the most violent episode of Gotham i've ever seen and contains a decision at one point that may be the stupidest one ever made by any TV character ever. My jaw is still hanging open.

[Kostgard]

45 minutes ago, Blackcanary said:

Advance review for episode 19 to come later in the week, but just briefly: Absolutely. bloody. bonkers.

Also possibly the most violent episode of Gotham i've ever seen and contains a decision at one point that may be the stupidest one ever made by any TV character ever. My jaw is still hanging open.

Aw, man. Is it the usual "bad decision" suspect Jim? Or someone more surprising?

[Dame sans merci]

4 minutes ago, Kostgard said:

Aw, man. Is it the usual "bad decision" suspect Jim? Or someone more surprising?

Not Jim, surprisingly enough!

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, Blackcanary said:

Not Jim, surprisingly enough!

Is it Bullock? Does he survive?

[Miss Dee]

Please don't be Bruce. Please don't be Bruce.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'll guess Lee. She's on a downward spiral right now, so seeing her make a bad decision due to her being angry at jim or whoever else wouldn't surprise me.

[Danielg342]

I'll take your Lee and raise you Barbara. Her ego could lead her there.