S04.E01: A Danger To Himself And Others

[peacheslatour]

 

The truth is that, ultimately, a doctor can't just rip out Norman's brain and replace it with a healthy one, so he's doomed

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: [to Igor] Now that brain that you gave me. Was it Hans Delbruck's?

Igor: [pause, then] No.

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Ah! Very good. Would you mind telling me whose brain I DID put in?

Igor: Then you won't be angry?

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.

Igor: Abby someone.

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: [pause, then] Abby someone. Abby who?

Igor: Abby... Normal.

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: [pause, then] Abby Normal?

Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name.

[Anela]

Norma is hilarious. And sad. Norman is now terrifying, and I feel bad for her. 

[Sakura12]

Hi, Emma's mom, bye Emma's mom. Scarily good casting though. That actress looked almost exactly like Emma in some scenes. 

 

Norman's kind of beyond help now. He'll need to be locked up for a good while but we all know that's not going to happen.  

 

Hey, Romero, I need insurance, you have insurance. I know you are attracted to me. Marry me, I'll have sex with you. I don't care, I just need your insurance. That's so Norma. I loved Romero's nonchalant response, now that he knows Norma's brand of crazy. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Bates Motel Would Be A Much Different Place If Health Insurance Were Affordable
After Norman's psychotic break lands him in a poorly-staffed public facility, both he and Norma begin obsessing on how to keep him out of there again.

[BooBear]

I'd say it's up to the individual viewer on whether or not they feel any sympathy for Norma.  Personally, I have a lot sympathy for Norma.  Her life has been beyond tragic.  She grew up with an abusive father.  She was sexually abused by her brother and eventually gets pregnant by him.  She's later abused by Norman's father.  She then has to cover up her son's murder of his father.  Since moving to White Pine Bay, she's been raped, nearly killed several times, had her son kidnapped, and is currently dealing with Norman's growing instability.  I'm amazed she hasn't put a gun in her mouth a long time ago.

I just watched the 12 minute show recap on demand and I couldn't believe how much has happened. I do feel bad for Norma I think she is trying. In real life I see something similar with Adam Lanza, a mother sort of a state of denial until her son kills her. A have seen a few documentarys since that time and there really is a serious problem in getting mental health treatment generally. There are very little choices and so people just try to live in denial.  I will give Norma credit for proposing to Romero to get Norman the help he needs. Though as a Sheriff I would assume he would have some things he could do without marriage.

 

I really hope Dylan and Emma get married and move away.

[ari333]

After Norman (as Norma) appeared to kill Emma's mom (we never know if it is real or a hallucination) where did he put the body? I missed something

[Avaleigh]

After watching the episode a second time I think one of the key scenes from this episode that points to the direction of the season is the haircutting scene. Norman tells Norma "You must promise me that you won't ever send me to a place like that" "I don't ever want to be separated from you again" Norma doesn't actually have responses to these intense statements. She sighs, she looks at Norman like she's deeply worried about him and then she tells him to stop worrying. 

 

The other thing I didn't consider is how Norma's behavior is from Norman's perspective. She tells him at one point during the hair conversation "Stop thinking, stop looking at me!" after he starts talking about his dream about her killing Bradley. He's thinking she might be guilty of Bradley's murder (he isn't sure whether it was a dream or not) and she's saying stuff like that. At the same time, if he really doesn't remember, why isn't he more disturbed about waking up all bloody and dirty? When the farmer found him he wasn't Norma anymore but he was still seeing her. That Norman seems to be aware of what "Norma" has done. So where does that Norman go when Norman is back to "normal". 

 

I'm confused as to what all he knows at this point. 

[ari333]

Im confused too.

[Chaos Theory]

I don't think Norman can distinguish between Norma and Mother. That is part of his illness. He thinks Norma is the one who has been doing all the killings. When Mother is around it is the version who is a tick more....uh incestious then Norma actually is. There is this weird Oedipul thing going on in Norman's head. Norma is a touch too close to Norman but that may be in large part to how worried she is for him and may over do it. She is prone to doing too much when a little will do.

[ari333]

So Mother is separate from Norma.... in Norman's head? Im a doof but Im still confused. ALso, who killed Bradley? Norman as Mother?  Norman as Norma? HOw are Mother and Norma not the same person/entity?  Sorry. Im over thinking this :-)

[ganesh]

Norman is only "as Mother". There isn't any Norman as Norma. Norma is the real life person. Norman as Mother killed Bradley because she was saying how Bradley wouldn't keep her from Norman. Norman doesn't know *he* is Mother, so I think he has some kind of break when that happens. 

[Chaos Theory]

Mother is Norman in the middle of a psychotic break. Norma is a real person. Norman can be talking to Mother when Norma is downstairs making him breakfast. Mother and Norma are two very different things.

Mother killed Bradley.

Mother killed Emma's mother.

Mother killed Norman's teacher. I forget her name now.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[ari333]

Norman is only "as Mother". There isn't any Norman as Norma. Norma is the real life person. Norman as Mother killed Bradley because she was saying how Bradley wouldn't keep her from Norman. Norman doesn't know *he* is Mother, so I think he has some kind of break when that happens. 

 

OK ! duh NOW  I get it... :-) thank you!

So Norma is the living mom woman. "Mother" is part of Norman's pycho break persona (who kills people?) . Mother just looks like Norma bc well, ... yeah...  

 

But there are times when Norman is talking to Mother, right? as if she is there (and to the viewer, she is  not there, as they switch camera angles to let us know) So Norman can converse with "mother" (the hallucination?) but then can later, at some point BECOME mother?  

Mother is Norman in the middle of a psychotic break. Norma is a real person. Norman can be talking to Mother when Norma is downstairs making him breakfast. Mother and Norma are two very different things.

Mother killed Bradley.

Mother killed Emma's mother.

Mother killed Norman's teacher. I forget her name now.

 

This makes things more clear.... I think I get it.

Thank you!

What was confusing for me is that Norman talks to mother as if she is separate... then boom things change and he *IS* mother.  I do other things while I watch. I should pay more attn. I probably miss some nuance.

[Avaleigh]

My question I guess is, are there two Normans in addition to there being two Normas in Norman's head?

 

Norman has the real Norma that he deals with in addition to vision Norma. Sometimes vision!Norma is her own thing and sometimes vision!Norma and Norman become one. When Norman is fighting with vision!Norma in the field, that Norman seems different than the Norman that Norma thinks of as her sweet son. 

[ganesh]

I still don't think Mother killed the teacher! That 'flashback' was when Norman was under extreme duress!

 

I don't think Norman "becomes" Mother. Mother is the form his psychosis takes, and I think Mother just takes over.

 

I'm actually surprised we have so many killings on the show. I thought there would only be 2 or 3. 

[ari333]

Wow you guys are awesome  and your comments  make the show much more fun and thought-provoking.

I still don't think Mother killed the teacher! That 'flashback' was when Norman was under extreme duress!

 

I don't think Norman "becomes" Mother. Mother is the form his psychosis takes, and I think Mother just takes over.

 

I'm actually surprised we have so many killings on the show. I thought there would only be 2 or 3. 

 

Maybe "becomes" is the wrong word. But doesn't the physical Norman take on the persona of "Mother" and he does strange things? ....as norma?/mother?

He dresses as Norma and fixes eggs as Norma. He has her mannerisms down pat. Wow. Freddie is amazing and so is Vera.

Mother is a different entity than Norma? ... in his head, I mean.

Edited March 10, 2016 by ari333

[Avaleigh]

I initially thought there was something to the idea that Norman might not have killed the teacher but I think if we were supposed to believe that he's innocent then more would have been made of the teacher's death and we would have found out who the real killer is. Since we didn't I feel like I have to apply Occam's Razor here. Norman being the killer of the teacher is the simplest and most logical conclusion IMO. 

[Orion]

So glad this show is back.  I can always count on Bates Motel to have great writing, acting, and characterization and this episode didn't let me down.

 

Lots of great camera work and lighting this episode my favorite was probably the cut between Emma laying on a stretcher in warm blue light being wheeled away toward, presumably, getting healthy with an attentive doctor by her side cut to Norman laying in the sickly green-yellow light in the hallway of the county hospital, virtually ignored, while his condition continues to deteriorate. Great juxtaposition.

 

While Freddy and Vera get a lot of well deserved praise I think the other supporting cast, Dylan, Emma and Romero, are doing a fantastic job. Their scenes are often much more subtle but they each carry an enormous weight. Without the "normal" people to connect to and hope for this show wouldn't be half as good. When Dylan's eyes welled up after Emma smiled at him had me tearing up. The way the actress playing Emma breathed while on a respirator (People on respirators breath in a gaspy/ jerky manner that someone breathing naturally doesn't have. It is a detail a lot of shows miss when they have a character in that condition and I was very pleased and surprised to see the actress pull that off.) The quiet humor from Romero while he plays the straight man to Norma's off the wall personality was also fantastic.

 

I actually felt sorry for Norma when the doctor was grilling her over Norman's condition. The true strength of writing a show like this is creating shades of gray and not having all the characters become black and white. Even when Norman was killing Emma's mother (add me to the list of people impressed by how much that actress looked like Emma) it was hard not to feel sympathy for Norman that he has broken to this extent.

 

Can't wait to see how each character finally finds out about Audrey's death and what repercussions come about when they do learn of it.

 

Dylan and Emma continue to be adorable. I've never experienced the desire to see characters interactions and actively wish the characters would run away at the same time. They can take Norma and Romero with them and start a brand new motel in another city, under different names and let Norman have the Bates Motel. ;)

[maczero]

I initially thought there was something to the idea that Norman might not have killed the teacher but I think if we were supposed to believe that he's innocent then more would have been made of the teacher's death and we would have found out who the real killer is. Since we didn't I feel like I have to apply Occam's Razor here. Norman being the killer of the teacher is the simplest and most logical conclusion IMO. 

Agreed.  Besides is there really any payoff of finding out that someone else killed Ms. Watson two plus years later?  Not to mention Norman has committed two intentional  murders so what's one more.  

[ganesh]

I think TPTBs wanted to have their cake with the whole Ms. Watson issue and just didn't do a good job with the whole thing. The flashback was clunky, and when he was under extreme duress. Plus, they had him kill with a knife, which he hasn't done since, right? Using a knife for the first time should come at the end of the series, or perhaps he uses it for the first time with Norma.

 

Just don't have the flashback. 

 

It seems like one of those things where they shot it as they wanted to in S1, in a way so that if the series ended, we had *that* as the trigger for him going psycho, but then they got S2 and overdid it. 

The same thing kind of happened with Better Call Saul. 

 

Seriously though, one mistake on an otherwise stellar show. I can live with it. 

 

I am so hoping when Norma gets home, the house is clean, and Norman is Norman, and no one has a clue what happened with Emma's mother. 

[Chaos Theory]

It was season 1 though most shows have season 1 growing pains and I think a lot of people are reading too much or too little into the Ms Watson murder like they are watching an episode of Law & Order.

Ms Watson is exactly the type of woman to bring out Mother. She was sexual promiscuous and she was attempting to nudge Norman away from Norma. Of course mother had to intervene. I have no problem believing Mother killed Ms Watson. There is no other explanation. If there was one it would have come up seasons ago.

[ari333]

Vera is amazing but  Freddie is astounding. Not sure where to put this since it was not in the eppy, but there's a sneak preview (2 minutes ON Demand) of the next eppy YIKES. If someone is on the fence about continuing watching this peek will draw you in. Freddie just nails it. Wow. It is not a spoiler bc it doesn't necessarily tell you anything to come. Just his acting is spot on... as usual. We already have had a glmpse of his anger when Norma locked him in that bedroom. ANd he didn't know that she wasnt' home. He could have thought that she was ignoring him. Locked in .. after that awful hospital. NO wonder he freaked.  My bf said "He just woke up. What if he needs the bathroom?" It's just TV....  I was wondering where he put Emma's mom's body.  Norman in that robe was so very creepy.

Edited March 12, 2016 by ari333

[ari333]

We're to assume that Norman as Mother killed Emma;s mom. How many others has he killed as Mother and how many as Norman?  He was Norman when he killed that dude who was raping his mom in their new house. Right? Or did Norma kill him?  There have been several murders, but I cant recall all the details.

 

Was his anger at Emma's mom bc he cares for Emma? or bc he felt Norma abandoned him in that hospital? He had no way to know that she was trying so hard to get him released.

 

Im still confused as to who exactly killed Norman's father. They seem to keep doing recaps of that flashback.

 

Does Norman know that Dylan and Emma have a thing?

Edited March 12, 2016 by ari333

[Avaleigh]

We're to assume that Norman as Mother killed Emma;s mom. How many others has he killed as Mother and how many as Norman?  He was Norman when he killed that dude who was raping his mom in their new house. Right? Or did Norma kill him?  There have been several murders, but I cant recall all the details.

 

Was his anger at Emma's mom bc he cares for Emma? or bc he felt Norma abandoned him in that hospital? He had no way to know that she was trying so hard to get him released.

 

Im still confused as to who exactly killed Norman's father. They seem to keep doing recaps of that flashback.

 

Does Norman know that Dylan and Emma have a thing?

I'm going to spoiler tag the episode two stuff

I think that clip makes it clear that Norman killed Ms. Watson and Bradley and that Norman has no idea that it was him. He thinks that both of these incidents were Norma to the point where he's saying he doesn't trust her anymore. He doesn't seem to remember that he killed his father and I guess doesn't think that killing his friend's dad was that big of a deal. (That did happen, right?) Caleb and Dylan IIRC are the only ones who have seen Norman as Norma (and lived to tell the tale.) What's strange about this is that he doesn't seem willing to examine his own role in any of this. It isn't odd to him that he was the only witness to Ms. Watson's murder? Isn't it odd to him that he was covered in blood after Bradley's murder? Does he remember the encounter with the farmer? If so, how does he explain why Norma wasn't picked up the way that he was? His blaming Norma makes me think that part of him knows that it's him and he's just trying to shift blame to make himself feel better. Notice how the focus in this conversation is how he shouldn't be sent away. He already knows that he's done stuff that he should be sent away for.

 

I think he was taking out his frustrations with Norma onto Emma's mom. At this point he doesn't even kow what's going on in Emma's life right now so I really don't think that much of it was about her. His main concerns right now are himself and Norma. Dylan and Emma don't even seem like they're on Norman's radar at this point. 

 

I thought Norma was being genuine when she made it seem like Norman killed his father. 

 

I don't think Norman knows about Dylan and Emma. it's possible that he's had a vibe in the past but I can't recall specifics. He definitely doesn't know that they're sort of serious because 1) I'm not sure they even know that 2) Norma expressed surprise so they've clearly been downplaying it 3) they haven't been around each other at the same time since that dinner episode IIRC. (I'm curious about this now. When was the last time Dylan, Norman, and Emma were in a room together?) 

[queenanne]

Freddie was a marvel as Norman/Mother tonight. Did they get any Emmy noms for this show? Wow, I knew Emma's mom was going to be killed by "Mother". 

 

He is great with physicality and physical comedy.  He has been great mimicking Vera and Tony Perkins, and also that "falling through the door" moment I thought he crammed some comedy in there too.

 

No matter how dark this show gets, it never fails to inject some hilarous moments, like Norma flirting with the gay doctor, just showing up at Romero's and expecting him to fix everything, and even going so far as to later propose marriage. Hah! Only Norma...never change. I do wonder if the money we saw Romero hiding under the floor boards will come into play in trying to put Norman into psychiatric care.

This! "You have insurance so let's get married." She is the best thing in this show. Plus Romero is awesome and I love how he deals with her.

 

The part where he greets her with the coffee cup between them as a buffer was hilarious.  I frankly thought Norma was about to start the scene jumping Romero regardless of insurance, like she was just that glad to see him, Nestor and Vera are slaying this dynamic (they've done the sidestep awkward dance about interacting physically before).  Beautiful acting choices letting all this complexity burrow in.

 

After watching the episode a second time I think one of the key scenes from this episode that points to the direction of the season is the haircutting scene. Norman tells Norma "You must promise me that you won't ever send me to a place like that" "I don't ever want to be separated from you again" Norma doesn't actually have responses to these intense statements. She sighs, she looks at Norman like she's deeply worried about him and then she tells him to stop worrying. 

 

The other thing I didn't consider is how Norma's behavior is from Norman's perspective. She tells him at one point during the hair conversation "Stop thinking, stop looking at me!" after he starts talking about his dream about her killing Bradley. He's thinking she might be guilty of Bradley's murder (he isn't sure whether it was a dream or not) and she's saying stuff like that. At the same time, if he really doesn't remember, why isn't he more disturbed about waking up all bloody and dirty? When the farmer found him he wasn't Norma anymore but he was still seeing her. That Norman seems to be aware of what "Norma" has done. So where does that Norman go when Norman is back to "normal". 

 

I'm confused as to what all he knows at this point. 

 

(1) interestingly I felt like Norma was understanding that Norman was recounting an actual experience with the "bludgeoned Bradley Martin to death with a rock", and reacted accordingly, albeit with a chunk of Scarlett O'Hara "we'll think about this tomorrow".  

 

(2), I think "Mother" is being represented as a sort of third party displacement figure.  She's not "Norma", and she's not "Norman". "Mother" is a third entity, which allows her to have and be ascribed motivations which "Norman" does not necessarily attribute, even in his most psychotic moments, as belonging to "Norma", so she remains unsullied in his mind, as a way/method of dealing with ugly feelings he has towards (a) Mother, and (b), women in general.  Other times, in his earlier seasons/tantrums when "Mother" wouldn't let him do something (like go out with Bradley), I think he had no problem attributing the ugly moments and aspects of motherhood to non-"psychotic break Mother".  Kind of like how mutilating serial killers IRL have described the process of mutilating their victims, that it's like they're cutting up a doll, and not a human... maybe?

 

A lit major and/or psychiatrist could probably also make some interesting tangential hay out of the fact that Norma is overwhelmingly "Norma" to Dylan, but "Mother" to Norman.  

[Black Knight]

I think TPTBs wanted to have their cake with the whole Ms. Watson issue and just didn't do a good job with the whole thing. The flashback was clunky, and when he was under extreme duress.

That's a classic trope in fiction, a repressed memory coming out under duress. Writers like to do that because it's dramatic. So I never thought that we were seeing anything other than the truth, or that we were meant to think there was anything ambiguous. And that seems to have been exactly how viewers took it - you're the only one I've seen who was still saying after S2 that there was a question - so I also think the show executed it just fine. Not only was there the flashback (which I thought was well-done, not clunky - the disjointedness of it was intended to parallel how Norman's mind was disjointed during the murder, and the stylism emphasizing Norman's heightened emotional state), but then the S2 finale with the amazing lie detector scene where Mother tells Norman she did it.

 

Whoever does the captions for this show has taken it to a new level. I'm used to getting musical descriptions a la "somber music playing", but when Norman was killing Emma's mother, the captioner threw in a "dramatic string glissandos." I've never seen something like that before!

 

Oh, Dylemma. Their couple portmanteau is absolutely perfect because I'm torn between finding them adorable and thinking, "Why am I getting attached when they are going to DIE DIE DIE?" It's a dilemma indeed. I'm terrified for Emma because Norman has the bunny - which, from what Emma's mother said, Emma will certainly recognize - and the letter. And we know from the Psycho film that the bunny remains in the house, in Norman's possession. Emma is dating Dylan, so she'll be in the house often. I have nightmares of her finding that damn bunny in Norman's room and Norman killing her, just when Emma has gotten a new lease on life because of her lung transplant. It reinforces the Greek tragedy aspect of the show. I always thought the one and only thing that might keep Emma from getting killed by Norman was that she was going to die of her disease anyway.

 

Put me in the camp that does not believe that Norma will be killed until the end of the series. Mother is a very different creation from Norma and I really don't see how the show can work with Farmiga just doing Mother. To me that's sustainable only for a couple of episodes at most, not for an entire season, even one of cable's short seasons. Plus, Norman killing Norma is the emotional climax of the show's arc, which is another reason it won't happen until the end of the series.

 

While Norma made many mistakes with Norman's treatment, or more to the point lack thereof, I do like how the show is also pointing out the crappy mental healthcare system we have in this country. Even if you are willing to do something, as Norma now is, there are all kinds of barriers. They haven't even gotten into the question of the differing levels of health insurance plans, but if Norma does get hold of insurance I can see that being addressed next - she thinks she's home-free and then finds out she's got a plan that won't cover what she needs for good treatment for Norman.

 

My show is back!

[ganesh]

No, I don't think I'm the only one. 

[Andromeda]

That escalated quickly.

...

I'm calling it now: Norma is a goner by season end.

I agree. I expect she'll be murdered at the end of the season, and all of S5 will be Norman running the hotel alone, like he does at the start of Psycho. He now fully believes his mother is a multiple murderess.

 

I knew things would end badly for Emma's mother when she described how she left Emma. Norman would find a mother abandoning her child reprehensible (murderously so, apparently!). I don't buy for a second that her dad is abusive -- that was mom's lame excuse to leave a sick daughter.

 

I LOVE THIS SHOW. So glad it's back!

 

P.S. As an Oregonian, I groaned when Dylan said Will-a-METTE County. But Norma later pronounced it correctly as Will-A-mette. And while I'm pretty sure in France Dylan would be correct, we here in the Willamette Valley stress the A. (There is no Willamette County, but it was a good Oregon choice for a proper name, because of the valley where the cities are -- it's the end of the Oregon trail.)

Edited March 14, 2016 by Andromeda

[Dobian]

Favorite line of the episode: "I'm gay, here's my card".

 

Glad to see Norman's expanding his repertoire from naughty girls who might take him away from his mom to bad mothers who abandon their kids.  Versatility is the mark of a good serial killer.

 

I felt kind of sad watching Ted Chaough, I mean Bob, going down with the ship.

 

Norma is getting nuttier every episode, asking Romero to marry her so she can get health insurance, then being exasperated why he thinks it's such a big deal.

 

I'm rooting for Dylan and Emma, but I fear for them both.

 

Great to finally be caught up to the present on this show, I started watching it on Netflix last summer.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Dobian

[ganesh]

Norma is getting nuttier every episode, asking Romero to marry her so she can get health insurance, then being exasperated why he thinks it's such a big deal.

 

I don't know what he was complaining about. She said they could have sex. 

[queenanne]

Nah, Romero is looking for love.  It's so clear.  Interesting development pending, because along with the arrested development, I think Norma has been written, and played by Farmiga, to not care very much about sex.  I mean, who could/not blaming her, on account of Caleb and the string of abusers, just saying.  We don't know that much about Norma's home life either outside of Mom and Caleb precisely, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a rather low-rent childhood, and thus intentionally or unintentionally, any of the "timeless" milieu that centers around the show's art design and which could be said to redound to Norma, is her creating some sort of gentility out of trashy chaos.  All of which makes Norma a very interesting person, independent of Norman.  Whether intentional or accidental, I'm quite taken with the dynamic.  What could and will a secure, relaxed Norma be like?  This may be her first chance at family structure.

[RCharter]

I thought the episode was great. I love that this show is finally back. 

 

I knew Emma's mom was dead the moment Norman opened the door in that robe. The hilarious thing about that scene was how Emma's mom wasn't even that thrown by the robe. I'd be thinking 'My daughter has a crush on this guy?'

 

I was surprised that Norma was so harsh with Emma's mother. (Sorry, I'm forgetting the woman's name.) I would have expected her to be a little more sympathetic since she'd just been given a speech on what a crap mother she's been to Norman when it comes to dealing with his psychological issues.

 

I always cringe in secondhand embarrassment when it comes to Norma's scenes with Romero and last night's episode was no exception. She thinks it's a better idea to marry someone than to just get her own insurance. What is wrong with this woman?

 

I agree with Spartan Girl. Norma will die in the last episode of the season.

 

I'm guessing that Emma's mom is going into the freezer. It's still nuts that Norma bought him that thing.  

 

I feel like Norman wants to continue the status quo but Norma seems to want to entangle herself from it a bit. I thought it was very interesting to see her pull away from him in bed once Norman was finally asleep. I don't think she's comfortable with it anymore the way that she once was. I felt like she was trying to placate Norman by doing what they've always done but once Norman was asleep it's like she wanted to free herself without waking him. For me it felt like a telling moment. 

 

I felt it in the kitchen when she was cutting his hair. Norman's talking about how he never wants them to be separated and Norma seems like she knows that it shouldn't just be the two of them forever and ever. 

 

The emphasis that Norman is placing on never wanting to be sent away again--I'm convinced that Norma is going to eventually get to the point where she thinks it's better to have Norman sent away and that's when Norman is going to freak out and kill her (and Romero). 

 

I agree that Emma's dad is going to be suspect #1 in Emma's mom's death/disappearance. 

Norma may not be the worlds greatest mother, but at least she is present and accounted for.  No matter what Normans problems are, Norma is there...willing to fight for him.  I expect that Norma would be the last person Emma's mother would get sympathy from.

 

Emma's mother had the stink of "but it was so hard knowing my kid was sick, so I just took off.....but let me throw some of the blame on her father so I can look like a victim."  But I agree with the poster above that Emma's father has never shown any signs of violence so it was hard to believe that he had done something so reprehensible that she needed to abandon her child.

 

I also think its very convenient that her mother decides to show up when Emma might be all healthy and well with a new set of lungs, and now she wants to be in her life.  Did she even respond to the letter that Emma sent her?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UO, but I didnt think it was crazy for Norma to suggest that she and Romero get married.  Any insurance she could afford would be crappy and probably not cover a place like Pineview.  Government officials are known for getting pretty cushy insurance.  Romero is attractive, they like each other, and he would be taken care of and eat like a king every night.  She would never leave him for fear of losing that insurance and he could do whatever he wanted (I cant see her keeping the insurance if he "mysteriously dies.")  Norman is out of the house, so he doesn't have to be scared.  Romero does really seem to take a fancy to her.....I think if she had come at him a little less "Norma" it might have worked

[Lady Calypso]

So, I watched season 1 when it first aired, but fell behind for seasons 2 and 3, because I was bored at first by season 1. But this week, I decided to binge watch the whole series, and I truly am happy that I did it. Season 1 truly is a gem of a season, and seasons 2 and 3 are solid as well. So, now I'm working my way to catching up with these five episodes of season 4 and I become more impressed with each episode.

 

In terms of sympathy, I've worked my way up to gaining sympathy for Norma. I truly thought of her as despicable in the first two seasons. Like it or not, she has been a really bad mother since the series started. Covering up for Norman's killings and keeping him too close to the point of making him not trust anyone else are just starts to the long list of bad mothering methods. It's clear that her attachment to Norman affected her relationship with Dylan (amongst her other issues with her brother), and even Norman has stated that they have moved constantly over a period of years. Her love for Norman isn't enough, because she did not choose to get him the help he needed. She lived in denial up until the finale last season. Even now, though, she has a long way to go, but it might be too late.

 

Season 3 had her growing as a person, which I appreciated. I think it was when she realized how messed up she is, and how she needs to do what's best for Norman, instead of what she thinks is best for them. It's kind of funny to think about, but if Norma had gotten Norman help in season 2, things probably would have turned out differently. As it is, it's too late, as Norman has completely lost his mind and now Mother is a part of Norman. 

 

Having Mother do all the killings instead of Norman is an interesting take. It makes me wonder if Norman himself will ever kill someone on purpose to protect Mother. He did kill Cody's father in season 2, but that was actually an accident. I think it's clear that Norma is finally wanting to get him help and she is stopping all the inappropriate behaviour in the only way that she knows how, but that is going to end up killing her. I think it could actually be in this finale. They still would have Vera pop up as Mother, and it would up the stakes for season 5 (which I presume will be the final season, as it really should be. It would be a perfect time to wrap things up). 

 

Dylan and Emma really should stay in Portland, because I fear that they'll die if they stay. If not this season, by the final season for sure. It also makes me wonder if Emma is going to start turning to a darker path, only because everyone else has killed and been shady. Would they willingly choose Emma to do something horrific? I don't think she has, as of yet. But Emma's mom is dead, by Mother's hand. I'll bet Norman doesn't remember a thing of it and assumes Norma killed her. Maybe she'll be in that pit that was from last season! I didn't like her excuse for leaving Emma and her dad. I don't believe for one second that Emma's dad would have been violent to the mother. I'm pretty sure he can't hide a violent temper from Emma for years. It's really ridiculous.

 

Romero and Norma's relationship really works well. He is so attracted to her, yet he still doesn't put up with her shit. It's entertaining and I suspect he'll rethink his decision to marry her, for whatever reason. I definitely worry about his fate by the end of this season. He can't keep being a badass killer forever. 

 

The doctor was quite harsh, and the facility Norman was in sucks, but she's not wrong in telling Norma that she screwed up by enabling his behaviour. He would have probably gotten better if she got him the help right after he killed his dad. Or, at least, Norman would have prolonged his serial killer behaviour. 

 

As for Ms Watson, unless they bring the murder back up otherwise, I have to assume that Mother killed Blaire Watson because she was 'harming' Norman by being sexually promiscuous and she had to die to protect him and his innocence. I did like how that flashback had been played out (first person and blurry, as if it's a memory long forgotten). I'd also be disappointed if it hadn't been Mother or Norman, because they closed that chapter of the story, and it would make Norman/Mother look like unreliable storytellers to us.         

[DittyDotDot]

I'm so late to this party, but had to come here anyway. This show is so good sometimes; they've done such a good job laying the groundwork and now they're starting to pay it all off. I think it's amazing how well they've established how hard it is to live with someone with mental illness. The challenge of trying to do the right thing by them and yourself and how hard that line can be to walk. Not everyone manages to do it successfully. 

Of course Norma immediately goes the offer a man sex to get something you want route...of course. So very Norma.

On 3/9/2016 at 8:26 AM, sadie said:

Here's my question: is Norma supposed to be a sympathetic character? While Vera acts the hell out of this role, I dislike Norma and sympathize with Norman. Do I have it backwards. He's mentally ill and she has done nothing to help,out of her own selfishness (disguised as love for Norman). Am I just reading it wrong??

I think the show has done a great job of giving everyone valid points of view. Who you might sympathize with is down to your own preferences and biases, but I actually find all of them sympathetic and horrible and tragic. I don't excuse Norma covering up all Norman's issues, but I do understand why she does it. And, I don't excuse Norman killing people, but he is mentally ill and I can also see why he does the things he does also. Hell, even Romero as a corrupt cop makes perfect sense to me. 

On 3/10/2016 at 0:06 PM, ganesh said:

I still don't think Mother killed the teacher! That 'flashback' was when Norman was under extreme duress!

I was a very staunch believer Norman did not kill the teacher too, but now I think I understand why the show was so coy about it. I wasn't supposed to trust that "memory" any more than Norman seems to. It's actually rather clever of the show looking back on it all now.

On 3/13/2016 at 1:42 PM, Black Knight said:

And that seems to have been exactly how viewers took it - you're the only one I've seen who was still saying after S2 that there was a question - so I also think the show executed it just fine.

He wasn't the only one. See above.

On 3/13/2016 at 8:55 PM, Andromeda said:

P.S. As an Oregonian, I groaned when Dylan said Will-a-METTE County. But Norma later pronounced it correctly as Will-A-mette. And while I'm pretty sure in France Dylan would be correct, we here in the Willamette Valley stress the A. (There is no Willamette County, but it was a good Oregon choice for a proper name, because of the valley where the cities are -- it's the end of the Oregon trail.)

OMG, when he said that I cringed so very hard, but I decided to forgive him because Dylan isn't a native Oregonian. 

[Ailianna]

On 3/13/2016 at 9:55 PM, Andromeda said:

P.S. As an Oregonian, I groaned when Dylan said Will-a-METTE County. But Norma later pronounced it correctly as Will-A-mette. And while I'm pretty sure in France Dylan would be correct, we here in the Willamette Valley stress the A. (There is no Willamette County, but it was a good Oregon choice for a proper name, because of the valley where the cities are -- it's the end of the Oregon trail.)

 

On 11/26/2016 at 11:15 AM, DittyDotDot said:

OMG, when he said that I cringed so very hard, but I decided to forgive him because Dylan isn't a native Oregonian. 

I'm going to forgive him butchering Willamette, since no one in the show mispronounces the NAME OF THE STATE!  I grew up in the PNW, but have since moved back east, and it drives me crazy to hear people say "Ore-GONE."  It's "Ore-gun"!  And when I correct people, the vast majority look at me like they can't understand what I just said.  There was even an awful bill board I saw one time for some travel company that had a line of "Going, going, Oregon!" (Which of course, only works if you don't know how to say the name of the state!)  There's only 50 people. Not so many to learn to pronounce correctly!

(Apparently that bothers me more than I even realize sometimes.  I saw that bill board about 15 years ago.)

Anyhow, about the show--everyone on it knows how to pronounce the name of the state they live in.  I think that's good.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Ailianna

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I grew up in the PNW, but have since moved back east, and it drives me crazy to hear people say "Ore-GONE."  It's "Ore-gun"!  And when I correct people, the vast majority look at me like they can't understand what I just said.

I have this same issue now living in the Midwest. I always tell them, " Ore's not gone, he has a gun!" Sheesh! ;)

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 3/7/2016 at 10:06 PM, PreviouslyTV said:

After Norman's psychotic break lands him in a poorly-staffed public facility, both he and Norma begin obsessing on how to keep him out of there again.

Read the story

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Steve Martin: "Not Mother?"

And now, I am, too. 

What a fantastic movie. Glenne Headly RIP, so talented, so funny.