S06.E09: Christmas Day

[Andorra]

 And yes, I too would like a sequel featuring the next generation.

 

 

I would like that, too, but only if Julian Fellows was not writing it!

[tenativelyyours]

 

 

And yes, I too would like a sequel featuring the next generation.

 

 

 

 

 

I would like that, too, but only if Julian Fellows was not writing it!

 

Can you imagine the ever perfect Mary fighting the evils of the Nazi Empire?  In Fellowes hands?  Good lord!

 

I'd love a prequel more than a sequel.  Though I would also like to bar Fellowes from that as well except maybe as the pockets and production name to get it done.  I would love a look at the Buccaneer era of dollar brides and the glamour of the Prince of Wales weekend revolving bedroom set.  Fellowes would be a horror at that though considering his odd idea of the noble standards of the day in regards to there being some kind of post mortem scandal with Mary and Gillingham as he so stupidly started the season.  Then tried to write Bertie's mother as he did when she had no title and would have had to beg for every penny should Bertie decide to make her sing for her supper.  Her pearl clutching ideas of Bertie's 'position' at a time when all it took was money and nice aged title and he could have swung from the chandeliers naked and the local gentry would have been thrilled to 'support him'.   Fellowes not only has an overly idealized view of the British nobility for the times but also has an incredibly unrealistic prudery he instills on them as a class.  The twenties might not have been as raucous in Britain as they were in New York or Paris but they did roar.  And most notably among all those nobles who still had a spot of cash in the pockets.  It is one reason why social standards had plenty of supporters for Edward VIII making Wallis his queen when the other choice was abdication.  Not the majority but times had changed well before that let a Prince of Wales carouse with married women until he reached his forties and attained the throne.

 

But in a good writer's hands seeing how Robert married Cora would have been very interesting.  As well a a little more background on Rosamund's life, her coming out and marriage.

[Helena Dax]

Thomas will never be out a job. Handsome properly trained English butlers are in demand even today. Even if Downton Abbey is sold off, there will be enough millionaires and nouveau riche in London and Hollywood rushing to hire him. I was hoping for a lover to pop up  -perhaps Evelyn Napier is secretly gay - but I guess being butler and outlasting Carson is good enough.

 

Yeah, I guess there are still families with butlers and maids.  But I'm not sure I like this ending for Thomas. He liked it, yes, but S1 Thomas would have died  before ending up as a Crowley fan. 

 

Otoh, his sad face while he was working for that old couple  made me laugh.  I get it,  he was missing DA, but he was acting as if it was a fate worse than  death. And then  in the next scene you could see Denker and Spratt,  who work only  for one single person, busy and  happily bickering with each other. 

 

Mary  might be a snob,  but I love her relationship with Carson and Anna.  She really cares for  them on a  personal  level.  I don't remember Edith having a meaningful conversation with a servant.

 

Anyway, I didn't love it. I'm glad they all got their  happy ending, but it was  too predictable  and boring. I'm going  to miss the coats and lady  Violet,  though.

[DianeDobbler]

Boy, Tom was totally left stuck in no man's land. If he's going to be partnered up with Mary's husband in business while managing the estate, he ought to have been hooked up with Rose, who, btw, made an absolutely lovely young matron and completely plausible settled-yet-charmingly joyous young mother. What a weird slot he's in.

 

There was less to this than I expected. Mary's mending fences with Edith involved an unseen tip to Rosemund and Bertie that Edith would be at the Ritz. Then there was her insisting her baby news be kept low key lest it steal Edith's thunder (thankfully not too overstated, as let's be real, it would have been silly - nothing could have overshadowed that wedding). Bertie's mother was easily won over.  And old Henry (how easily he can be called old Henry) has slotted into Matthew's spot as Tom's bff and also the odd stint as a confidente to Edith (agreed they had good chemistry - Laura Carmichael just has chemistry with most people). And I guess Mary made an ambiguous statement or two that she and Edith would in future be better sisters, as when she said some things are just for sisters (or secrets) it harked to Edith telling her.

 

As to me, there has always been something sweet about Barrow, I was happy he ended up butler at Downton, if only because he'd be among his friends. I think that's what he actually missed, his below stairs community. 

 

I loved how the Dowager is quite aware that Danker has it in for Spratt. I'm curious though, what with Spratt being a hit at the paper, why he'd need to continue as butler.

 

Amazing Edith ends up presiding over an estate that is larger and more ostentatiously grand than Downton, although it was SO grandiose, not to mention all that interior red and gold, it was nearly too much.

 

Quite a nefarious plot Amelia had going, keeping Lord Merton from Isobel so that he wouldn't marry and dilute the estate before he died. . 

Edited December 29, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[Tetraneutron]

Quite a nefarious plot Amelia had going, keeping Lord Merton from Isobel so that he wouldn't marry and dilute the estate before he died. 

Was that what they were doing? Because my understanding was the estate passed on to the heir and there was nothing anyone could do about it. That's what drove the whole first season. Sure, I suppose Lord Merton could leave a few paintings or something to Isobel, but he could do that anyway. The house and grounds and anything remotely valuable would go to Larry.

 

 

Boy, Tom was totally left stuck in no man's land. If he's going to be partnered up with Mary's husband in business while managing the estate, he ought to have been hooked up with Rose, who, btw, made an absolutely lovely young matron and completely plausible settled-yet-charmingly joyous young mother. What a weird slot he's in.

 

As to me, there has always been something sweet about Barrow, I was happy he ended up butler at Downton, if only because he'd be among his friends. Agreed it's a dying job, but not THAT dying. The sort of enterprise over which a butler presided is dying, but the role of butler continued/s on, only with butler/valet combined, and the rest looking like the set up Thomas was in at first - a household with just him, a housekeeper and a cook. That's about right.

But that's it. Thomas hated his new job with the old couple because it was boring. Even if (somehow) we expect that he could continue to be a butler for the rest of his life, in a few years he'll be presiding over a few part-time workers and being a combo butler/valet/chauffeur/everything else.

 

Besides, the show was making such a big deal about how he would miss his friends at Downton, but who's left? Anna, Bates, Daisy, Andy, Baxter. Andy has one foot on the farm, Daisy will leave when she marries him just as Baxter will leave when she marries Molesly. Yay! He gets to spend the rest of his life doing the exact same job he hated all episode except . . . the Crawleys are younger and less brusque? And we all know what happened to estates after WW2.

 

It doesn't make sense that JF wrote a show about the waning days of the aristocracy, and then halfway through, switched it to a fairy tale about how wonderful it all was and how everyone loved it and how it would last forever.

 

As for Tom, I thought they (finally) did give him something to do. He has a business and an identity outside the Crawley family, finally, after 3 seasons of moping and feeling like an outsider. If he makes enough money at it (and the show implied he would) he'd even be their social equals.

[Roseanna]

Tetraneutron, perhaps we should simply accept that DA *is* a fairy tale.

Only that in the fairy tales the good ones were rewarded and the wicked ones were punished which is rather boring to adults. Instead, in S6 everyone was rewarded, no matter his or her deeds, which is even more boring because whatever the characters did, it had no consequences and therefore the plot contained no risks.

If happiness is rare, it's more valuable.

[DianeDobbler]

I did think it was quite funny how the lack of chemistry between Dockery and Goode was finessed. She kisses him and the camera immediately swings away and out of the room. Their physical relationship appears to be mostly her leaning forward and putting a hand over his. I don't know if the actors don't connect or if it's simply there was no chemistry, Fellowes recognized it, and continued to finesse the issue even after he had them married. I think the reasons will probably come out, tactfully, a little bit down the road, in an interview or remarks from Goode.

 

She had more passion with Matthew's headstone.

Edited December 29, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[sark1624]

The end of Downton Abbey was weird because in the end Mary ended lower than most of the upstairs females, Isobel is now a baroness also Rose in the future would be one, Cora a countess, Violet a dowager countess and Edith a marchioness. When Henry was introduced i believed that he also would inherit some title and Edith would ended with Bertie but with a minor title. 

 

Also its true, even if Mary would have told everybody in the wedding that she is pregnant, nobody in the family would have made a big fuss, the importance of Mary was having a heir to Downton. Marrying Edith with another powerful family is far more important for all the connections and power that you can bring to the family, in fact now is Edith´s job have a son with Bertie.

 

I liked the CS sadly some precious minutes were wasted in banal things like Daisy hair, but it was ok imo.  

[kpw801]

ar

 

The end of Downton Abbey was weird because in the end Mary ended lower than most of the upstairs females

 

It hearkened back to the beginning of the show when Mary compared the lowly cousin Matthew to a hideous sea monster.  Now she is married to the lowest of the low and Edith is the one with the comparative "son of a god".

 

I really don't think the Gilded Age tv series will materialize because even though Downton commanded a great fan base, it was in spite of Julian Fellowes - not because of.  He had a great concept but it was damaged by his lack of something.

 

Isobel is now a baroness also Rose in the future would be one, Cora a countess, Violet a dowager countess and Edith a marchioness. When Henry was introduced i believed that he also would inherit some title and Edith would ended with Bertie but with a minor title. 

 

Also its true, even if Mary would have told everybody in the wedding that she is pregnant, nobody in the family would have made a big fuss, the importance of Mary was having a heir to Downton. Marrying Edith with another powerful family is far more important for all the connections and power that you can bring to the family, in fact now is Edith´s job have a son with Bertie.

 

I liked the CS sadly some precious minutes were wasted in banal things like Daisy hair, but it was ok imo.  

Edited December 29, 2015 by kpw801

[DianeDobbler]

I can't believe that I cared for Daisy in the early series, hoped she'd get on in the world, find a beau, and by the end of the whole thing she worked my last nerve.

 

It really seems almost silly that they left Mosley/Baxter only implied. They've had more of a sincere courtship, development than 90% of the wedded couples on Downton, and all they got was a promise that they wouldn't lose touch when Mosley moved into the cottage.

 

Looked up the hierarchy of titles in the British nobility - Robert was right - Marquess is right there one down from a duke, in second place, quite thoroughly above an earl. It IS funny that Edith ends up with the very high rank and her own estate, and Mary has to wait on papa's death, which should make her as old as her father is now before her son inherits, rear her son to take his place in a set-up so anachronistic that by the time young George presides over Downton he'll be bargaining to sell it to a rock star or dot.com mogul, or giving tours and promoting it as an event venue. At least his stepfather and his uncle will be the notable founders of Talbot & Branson, the gilded automotive concern.

 

Where are Rose and her husband living now?

Edited December 29, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[Roseanna]

The first part was shown here tonight, the second part will be next Tuesday. However, the biggest news was shown already in the trailer where Edith is coming down the stairs in her wedding dress.

The Ritz meeting was too short and low-keyed. One never heard why Bertie had changed his mind. That he couldn't live without Edith was simply not enough. His views about honesty must have been changed - or rather, he must have come to understanding how hard telling was to Edith and that she probably tried to collect her courage to tell but when she dropped hints ("Am I worthy?" "I am not as simply as I used to be"), he didn't ask what she meant, in the latter case even assuming that she had said yes.

Mary's role wasn't actually needed at all. Bertie could have contacted Rosamund. (And I don't even understand how Mary could have had time to do anything for Rosamund's invitation was already waiting Edith when she came to London.)

Bertie was far better with his mother although he was first wrong and Edith right about telling her.

One could have understood Henry's feelings with less moping. He was rather uncivil to sit alone.

I can't really understand how Amelia could order Lord Merton to the car. He is not a child but the master of the house and she is only his daughter-in-law. I don't think so weak a man is worth marrying. (Larry and Amelia's behavior could be understood only if the estate isn't entailed - or if it is, they are so greedy that they don't want to give Mrs Crawley even the widow's part.)

I just can't believe Barrow's change of mind. He was so entertaining as a schemer.

All in all, JF could have left much secondary things out (or handled it earlier) and concentrate more on Edith and Bertie.

[Roseanna]

Henry assumed that Mary fell for him because he was a dashing race-car driver. If it were true, it doesn't show Mary's character and values in a good light. Young girls have a crush successful with sportsmen, not women in their mid-thirties with a child.

And it was only after marriage Henry began to think that he was Mary's "kept man". I assume that at that time a man with any self-respect would have found a job first and proposed only after that.

[Tetraneutron]

The end of Downton Abbey was weird because in the end Mary ended lower than most of the upstairs females, Isobel is now a baroness also Rose in the future would be one, Cora a countess, Violet a dowager countess and Edith a marchioness. When Henry was introduced i believed that he also would inherit some title and Edith would ended with Bertie but with a minor title. 

I don't believe Rose would get a title. I think Lord Sinderby had a lifetime peerage? Either way, I don't think they specified what his title would be. 

 

Henry assumed that Mary fell for him because he was a dashing race-car driver. If it were true, it doesn't show Mary's character and values in a good light. Young girls have a crush successful with sportsmen, not women in their mid-thirties with a child.

And it was only after marriage Henry began to think that he was Mary's "kept man". I assume that at that time a man with any self-respect would have found a job first and proposed only after that.

When Henry proposed he DID have a job - race car driver. It was only after that the accident happened and then Henry retired. Besides, at that time the thing was to NOT have a job. Matthew gave up his job as solicitor to be a landowner (even though he wouldn't actually inherit the estate until Robert died). Gillingham didn't have a job. Blake did and everyone thought it was weird. To our modern eyes it's considered pathetic for someone to just enjoy their family's money, which is why Henry went into business. And why Mary was a hands-on estate agent, for that matter. 

[PRgal]

I can't believe that I cared for Daisy in the early series, hoped she'd get on in the world, find a beau, and by the end of the whole thing she worked my last nerve.

 

It really seems almost silly that they left Mosley/Baxter only implied. They've had more of a sincere courtship, development than 90% of the wedded couples on Downton, and all they got was a promise that they wouldn't lose touch when Mosley moved into the cottage.

 

Looked up the hierarchy of titles in the British nobility - Robert was right - Marquess is right there one down from a duke, in second place, quite thoroughly above an earl. It IS funny that Edith ends up with the very high rank and her own estate, and Mary has to wait on papa's death, which should make her as old as her father is now before her son inherits, rear her son to take his place in a set-up so anachronistic that by the time young George presides over Downton he'll be bargaining to sell it to a rock star or dot.com mogul, or giving tours and promoting it as an event venue. At least his stepfather and his uncle will be the notable founders of Talbot & Branson, the gilded automotive concern.

 

Where are Rose and her husband living now?

 

Hahaha on the anachronistic note.  I guess this means George's grandson, who'd be in his 30s in 2015, would have flying cars (wait, weren't we supposed to have them this year? I mean, BTTF Part Two, right?).  

[ZoloftBlob]

Matthew gave up his job as solicitor to be a landowner (even though he wouldn't actually inherit the estate until Robert died).

 

Slight correction. Matthew never gave up his job as a solicitor. The entire rigamarole over his letter being his will was due to his law office being cleaned out.

[magdalene]

I did think it was quite funny how the lack of chemistry between Dockery and Goode was finessed. She kisses him and the camera immediately swings away and out of the room. Their physical relationship appears to be mostly her leaning forward and putting a hand over his. I don't know if the actors don't connect or if it's simply there was no chemistry, Fellowes recognized it, and continued to finesse the issue even after he had them married. I think the reasons will probably come out, tactfully, a little bit down the road, in an interview or remarks from Goode.

 

She had more passion with Matthew's headstone.

Sometimes actors just have no chemistry with each other even though they may like or at least not dislike each other.  I always felt that Mary had the best chemistry after Matthew died with Blake. Obviously Julian Fellowes did not agree.

 

Maybe poor Michelle Dockery had other things on her mind during that final season and just couldn't generate chemistry with her new Beau.

[DianeDobbler]

Agreed. As I recall, Matthew made a point of not giving up his job as solicitor.

 

I've always been curious as to from whence Matthew's status as heir derived. His father, I presume, but Matthew arrived in Downton and neither he nor his mother, his father's widow, were titled. Isobel presumably has and had an income apart from what her son earned as a solicitor - enough to live very comfortably, and neither were inclined towards grandeur.

 

I felt Mary had no romantic chemistry with Blake at all, and when he morphed into bff and started gabbing with her at fashion shows, they fell into a far more natural chemistry as an Her Ladyship and her vibrant best male friend sort of thing, and the actor came across as if he felt a gazillion times more relaxed. There was also something about him being SO freaking short that just didn't work. I feel weird about it because Allen Leech isn't a tall man, and there are a number of not tall men who've appeared on Downton, but I was so distracted by Blake's lack of height. I guess because a verging-on-burly, Spencer-Tracy type Irish dude isn't someone you'd expect to have a lot of height, but a guy with a basic leading man face who is under-served in the height department, absent tremendous talent or authority, just doesn't scan, for me, as the leading man. It's true though, that of all the men tried with Mary after Matthew died (save Tom), Blake at least mustered a few fans rooting in his favor. I'm not sure any of the others managed that much.

 

P.S. - I never felt/suspected that anything personal between Dockery and Goode accounted for the chemistry lack. But I can imagine Goode joining Downton, encountering the cursory, to say the least, writing, and the strategems that dodged the lack of chemistry, and making a comment or two. I definitely don't believe that writing alone accounted for the instant Dan Stevens/Dockery chemistry. It was a perfect match of character/actor separately, and a perfect character pairing as far as sparks. I think among other things it was that he was emotional, smart, warm and funny, she was smart, easily affronted and quick, and they were both so perfectly cast to play such characters, that it was instant positive synestry. Also, as hideous as the writing was for Matthew in much of Seasons 2-3, the underlying scenario (particularly in Season 2) was strong enough to carry it, and there WAS writing, even if it was hideous. There's a difference between that and NO writing, which is what Goode got. I don't think Goode would have cut it even absent the writing, but were I, he, I would definitely be rolling my eyes at being brought on for Lady Mary, and having Allen Leech shoved in as a quasi-Cyrano in my stead, because Fellowes didn't have the time.

Edited December 30, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[SusanSunflower]

Alan Leech and Julian Ovenden are both listed at 5 feet 10 inches

Matthew Goode 6 feet 2 inches

Dan Stevens 6 feet 

[Llywela]

 

Mary's role wasn't actually needed at all. Bertie could have contacted Rosamund. (And I don't even understand how Mary could have had time to do anything for Rosamund's invitation was already waiting Edith when she came to London.)

The post in those days was really, really fast - as in, there were several deliveries in a day. We have postcards in our family archive which were posted in the morning to tell a family member which train they'd be arriving on that afternoon - and the card got there before the visitor. If Mary sent straight to the telephone as Edith left, which was implied, there was ample time for Rosamund to contact Bertie, make the reservation and get a letter to Edith's London flat before she got there. Especially since Edith was driving and made a stop to see Spratt along the way. A car journey from York to London takes hours even today. Heck, Rosamund could have popped the note through the door herself (or, you know, sent a servant) rather than mail it, if she was especially anxious for it to arrive in time, but I'm confident the post would have done it, in those days. The bigger surprise for me was that Bertie was available at such short notice to get to the Ritz in time - and I agree with those who said his turnaround needed more development and explanation, as his reasons for breaking things off in the first place simply weren't addressed at all. Neither was Mary's betrayal.

 

I've always been curious as to from whence Matthew's status as heir derived. His father, I presume, but Matthew arrived in Downton and neither he nor his mother, his father's widow, were titled. Isobel presumably has and had an income apart from what her son earned as a solicitor - enough to live very comfortably, and neither were inclined towards grandeur.

This was all explained in season one, wasn't it? Matthew and his father (who, yes, the status derived from) didn't need to have a title or a fortune to be the heirs, they were simply the next in the line of direct male descent after Patrick died - neither would ever have expected to inherit anything, but Patrick's death threw the cat among the pigeons, so to speak. Since Robert had no son, the line had to be traced back to a common ancestor and then out sideways among the cousins to find the nearest relative who could trace an unbroken line of male descent back to that common ancestor. Matthew was a distant cousin, but after Patrick's death he was the nearest with that unbroken line of direct male descent, which put him in the hot seat.

[Pogojoco]

My favourite part of the Carson/Mary relationship was Mrs. Hughes rolling her eyes about it. 

 

I honestly loved how Michelle Dockery played that character (I thought a lot about her watching this episode, what with her recent personal tragedy) but my favourite thing about Mary was when she was a terrible person and it blows up in her face. My favourite recent bit was when they all realized that Edith was going to outrank all of them. Dockery's face was perfect. Perfect. 

 

I would also like a series featuring George, Sybbie and Marigold in the late 30s into the 40s. Fascism, abdication, war, the Kennedy family is in the UK (a Kennedy sister married a Cavendish, one of the fanciest families in the UK.) A lot of possibility. But Julian Fellowes would just ruin it, so....

Edited December 30, 2015 by Pogojoco

[Roseanna]

Llywela, thank you to telling me about the post in those days.

That leaves the vital question: did Mary make Bertie change his mind in the telephone? Or had he already changed his mind? Or had they perhaps contacted earlier and it was only a manner how to meet Edith that was open?

Although Ritz is splendid, I think Edith's flat would have been better for there they could have talked in peace.

And one didn't see any kisses! JF, you are a really cruel man!

[Andorra]

I didn't see any chemistry between Mary and Blake either and IMO they looked weird next to each other, because Julian Ovenden has a large head and a long neck and so his shoulders were not on the same level as Mary's. Allen Leech on the other hand is broadly built and his shoulders were above hers, so that's why he looked taller next to Mary than Blake did, even though they're both 5'10.

 

The upstairs women and men of Downton are all very tall, because I'm tall myself (5'8) and I was surprised that Allen was noticeable taller than I am when I met him last year. He looks so short in comparision to the other men and women upstairs, but he isn't really. 

 

For me Michelle had the best chemistry with Allen Leech after Matthew. They were really nice on screen together. I know it wasn't supposed to be romantic, but I think it would have been easily achieved if they had wanted it, because there was a real natural warmth between them. 

[Eolivet]

I definitely don't believe that writing alone accounted for the instant Dan Stevens/Dockery chemistry. It was a perfect match of character/actor separately, and a perfect character pairing as far as sparks

 

Also familiarity. They worked together previously on BBC's "Turn of the Screw." Dockery presumably had never seen any of the other guys before. Probably also a reason her chemistry (non-romantic, IMO) with Leech got better as the series progressed: familiarity. Nobody ever would've been rooting for Mary and Tom in season 1, and that's exactly what was expected of Goode, Cullen and Ovenden.

 

I also knew Blake wouldn't end up with Mary because he himself left his wildly successful series (Foyle's War) to pursue other career opportunities. I don't see Fellowes taking that lightly.

[Andorra]

But Michelle Dockery and Matthew Goode are actually good friends in real life, so it should have worked. He only auditioned for the role on her suggestion. 

[MissLucas]

Well, I saw chemistry between Blake and Lady Mary - a lot more than I ever saw between Talbot and Lady Mary. But chemistry is as this discussion shows much in the eye of the beholder. What I thought was more damaging to that final pairing was the writing (paired with some weird acting choices): The scene between Henry and Mary were he threatens her with what he'll do if she dumps him was enough to put me off that 'romance' for good ( I wasn't a fan before but that sealed the deal to me by crossing the line between 'passionate' and 'stalkerish').

[Featherhat]

I did assume that the Gillingham/Blake/Mary "triangle" (such as it was), was because Fellows was hedging his bets but assumed one of them would come out the better choice. Tony has it all on paper, Blake is the "love/hate guy" at least one of them should be a clear chemistry favourite right? Not really, although individual viewers might prefer either.

 

I thought MD and AL had great chemistry. I just re watched Rose's wedding and all their scenes are golden. She's unhappy that he's going away, he acknowledges that and they talk about the unlikeliness of their friendship and Sybil, but he refuses to apologise and gently points out they'll always have their memories. Mary knows this but can't stop from being upset that he's leaving. They know and respect each other down to the ground and are equally matched. That said its great as a platonic scene for me, they both needed a confidant and fellow single parent at to have their backs. It was beautifully played by both of them. I was never really on board Tom/Mary as a romance (too many emotional minefields) but if JF had pushed the issue it might have worked.

 

I don't hate Talbot but it does read slightly like Fellows went "Mary's getting married again, come what may". Not being particularly subtle, even for him. MG wasn't great, he didn't seem particularly inspired or inspiring. I just picture the meeting in his agent's office:  

 

"So they're looking for another love interest on DA, English and bland. Interested?"

 

"Yeah, why not. You can do those scenes in your sleep and the family will get to spend a year back home."

 

Although I do like that she didn't marry a title, something that was vitally important when she was younger.

 

 

 

Looked up the hierarchy of titles in the British nobility - Robert was right - Marquess is right there one down from a duke, in second place, quite thoroughly above an earl.

 

It's only one above from an Earl I believe which is 3rd, although there are/were more Earls than Marquees. That said I've more often heard it referred as "one step down from a Duke" than "one step up from an Earl". Edith did indeed finally get a "(society approved) catch" but they all married interchangeably anyway. Shrimpy is a Marquess.  

Edited December 30, 2015 by Featherhat

[DianeDobbler]

I don't think knowing the other actor or being good friends means chemistry. I've seen married duos fall flat on screen -presumably happily married people. Or people who had mad love affairs off camera be a dud on camera. There's lots that go into it. The combined energies, for one, of both the actors and the characters. There are times a couple of actors have fail-proof chemistry no matter what the material. Other times if the script sets up the dynamic a certain way, it takes off. If not, it won't. I've seen bits of Turn of the Screw and felt that while Stevens and Dockery were perfectly fine together and it wasn't intended to be a flaming romance, her energy in that was softer than in Downton, so it lacked the same ying and yang.

 

 

I honestly loved how Michelle Dockery played that character (I thought a lot about her watching this episode, what with her recent personal tragedy) but my favourite thing about Mary was when she was a terrible person and it blows up in her face. My favourite recent bit was when they all realized that Edith was going to outrank all of them. Dockery's face was perfect. Perfect.

 

 

I thought Dockery had hit the limit of her resources vis a vis the script at times during the past few post-Matthew series, particularly when I'd look back at her early work in the role. There's a great moment of her coming in from riding after getting an eyeful of Pamuk, and the excitement in such a normally composed young woman is a lot of fun. And times Matthew completely unbalanced her, which played wonderfully against the froideur and hauteur. Just little things, such as what should have been the unplayable "If you were the only boy in the world" sequence, when she is talking as she walks to the front about the "Crawley sisters" in her customary upper-upper drawl, and then when Matthew walks in, the expression on her face and how her hands are moving in excitement.

 

I never ever believed her and Henry, not the "I love yous", not the encouragement. It was all very professional, rote. But she rebounded in the scene at Matthew's grave, which was very touching. I loved how she told him she would be happy for him if it were he - it was so sincere, and reminded that she REALLY loved him, hadn't just been IN love with him. That point had been made when he was in the wheelchair and engaged, and came back again in that graveside scene. There was also a great moment when she's with her grandmother and spills out that she didn't mean to wreck Edith's relationship, it's just that Edith was "SO..." and Dockery does this absolutely helpless gaping expression - it's not really an imitation of Edith, just a frustrated attempt to communicate how something about Edith just sets her off. Very well done.

 

And going back to the day of Mary's wedding to Henry, when Edith walked in and said something like "I assumed you'd be a LITTLE sorry" - I thought it played very well between them, a sort of sister shorthand.

Edited December 30, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[skyways]

Yes!Yes!Yes! to everything said above. I think if not for 'Lady Mary' and how Dockery played her I probably will not have kept up with the show as long as I did. I also realize that after Season 4, when I percieved that the writing for her had become one-dimensional and 'Lady Mary' became too brittle and a bit cruel atimes, my lost interest in the show coincided with that.  That expression on her face when she realized about Edith was like, 'is he growing a second head or am I seeing double'? That expression was great.

 

Henry assumed that Mary fell for him because he was a dashing race-car driver. If it were true, it doesn't show Mary's character and values in a good light. Young girls have a crush successful with sportsmen, not women in their mid-thirties with a child

 

Remember when Blake implied as such to her and she was 'outraged' that he would suggest that she was like a housewife drooling over Douglas Fairbanks?? Even I thought that was harsh from Blake but maybe it has always been mainly physical attraction with Mary when it came to 'her men'. Her 'pairing' with Talbott would seem to back this up.

Edited December 30, 2015 by skyways

[Roseanna]

Remember when Blake implied as such to her and she was 'outraged' that he would suggest that she was like a housewife drooling over Douglas Fairbanks?? Even I thought that was harsh from Blake but maybe it has always been mainly physical attraction with Mary when it came to 'her men'. Her 'pairing' with Talbott would seem to back this up.

It may be so but why didn't JF present her "romances" as a satire? Why did he insist that we would admire Mary and care for whom she marries?

I am not saying that the heroine should be faultless. On the contrary she must make mistakes. But she must actively strive for the goal (even if the goal is a wrong one) and the stakes must be high so that the choice she makes is a difficult one.

[skyways]

and the stakes must be high so that the choice she makes is a difficult one.

 

And therein lies the problem. After the hype of 'who will Mary marry'?!!!! even the producers were pushing this as the new concept of season 4, in the end there were no stakes and the ending when it came didn't even matter.

 

Rosanna, I'm taking my next comment to the 'Unpopular' thread as I think it belongs there.

Edited December 31, 2015 by skyways

[Tetraneutron]

The problem was Mary has to find love and her happily ever after because this is a soap opera and a woman that young who never finds love again is sad, but also that Mary has everything she wants and there's no obstacle to her marrying whoever she wants, so it's impossible to write a compelling story. 

 

We've seen Mary is beautiful and charming and can have anyone, so she just needs to pick the best and we're done. She likes Gillingham! OK, marry him. You prefer Blake? Pick him. She doesn't need a title, she doesn't need money, and her sister married the  Irish chauffeur, her other sister was with an estate agent (as far as anyone knew) and her cousin married a Jew and no one cared. And even if they did, JF was never going to write his heroine as the kind of person who caves into outside pressure because heroines don't do that. He tried wringing a bit of drama out of the fact that Henry was "merely" well-born without a title or estate, and it went nowhere. Any time Mary could have just gotten married. 

 

You could tell how hard JF was straining for conflict. "Uh, Matthew was killed in a car accident, right? Let's make this guy s race car driver! That will cause drama even though Mary has been in cars, and never mentioned a problem with them."

Edited December 31, 2015 by Tetraneutron

[Gladrags]

I liked the episode; we got most of the payoffs that soap opera fans always want but never get. It was good to see Edith and Bertie reconciling -- although like others have said, it would have been nice to drag that out a little bit -- then Edith winning over his mother, and then the wedding. Her dress was absolutely gorgeous. 

 

Rose and Atticus were a breath of fresh air! Rose is such a perfect 20th century young matron, and her presence perks everyone up. When she was first introduced, I was dubious of her Cousin Oliver role in the show, but Lily James and the character grew on me. 

 

I was glad to see Tom finally find an occupation away from his in-laws, Cora as the community leader and diplomat, Spratt get the better of Denker, and Violet charge to Dickie's rescue when Isobel got nowhere. I loved Violet's support and friendship for Isobel. And of course it was the perfect payoff for Violet to have the last word. 

 

The problem with Thomas being a butler is that (a) he hated being a servant for most of the show and (b) the last season leaned heavily on the fact that servants are dying out.

Agreed, those points both were ignored/glossed over. So Thomas was homesick for the house that he wanted to escape and the people he for the most part despised. The grass is greener and all that, so OK. But I expected more dialogue and conflict dealing with the changes in society and in the economic system of large estates, less reliance on servants, etc.

 

And what happened to the property that the Carsons were going to buy? And Mrs. Patmore's B&B?

 

So Daisy, Andy, Mr Manson and Mrs Patmore will all end up in the cottage as one big happy family. It's going to be pretty cramped.

The Drewes had four kids in the cottage; four adults probably will make the place seem spacious in comparison.

[Superpole2000]

A finale such as this practically screams, "We'll listen to any and all offers for a film!"

 

My favourite part was the one tragic part: Carson's retirement. He was the only character who grew old in a material way. And in a period drama, I want to see that aging. I want a depiction of the all-too-short lifespan of a human in comparison to the relentless passage of time. This was poignant, and the show should have done more of it.

[Roseanna]

My favourite part was the one tragic part: Carson's retirement. He was the only character who grew old in a material way. And in a period drama, I want to see that aging. I want a depiction of the all-too-short lifespan of a human in comparison to the relentless passage of time. This was poignant, and the show should have done more of it.

I don't think that ageing or even death in such is tragic. Tragedy demands something extraordinary (f.ex. a man who is otherwise good makes a mistake that has fateful consequences like Oedipus).

But I see your main point and I agree with it. JF should have had courage to let Violet, Robert or Carson to die in S6. Now DA was like a war movie where no important character whom we care for dies. The result is lack of depth.

Besides Matthew, it was just Carson towards whom Mary felt genuine feelings.

[Tetraneutron]

I don't. Violet was the funniest part of the show even when she never had anything to do. And this IS a happy show and I don't think it's necessary for anyone to die. 

 

Maybe Carson. Not because the character is insufferable (although maybe that's a part of it) but because it would allow someone downstairs to actually leave the Abbey California. So yeah. Carson dies, Mrs. Hughes gets the pension Robert promised Carson and retires to her cottage and runs a B&B, Mrs. Patmore has her cottage, leaving Daisy to make a decision about her future (be the cook, which would at least grant her job security, marry Andy and run the farm, ANYTHING). 

 

It would also force the Crawleys to acknowledge no one had a butler any more. We've been seeing all season how anachronistic houses like that are, how former butlers are now chauffeurs and secretaries and footmen and everything else, so we'd see them adjust to the reality of a smaller house, and what that meant. Sure, Robert would give everyone a handsome pension and find them new jobs they liked, but it would be interesting to see everyone adjusting to living like, essentially, Isobel. When the show started, Matthew and Isobel had to learn that their way of life didn't fit the new world and they had to adjust. Now the Crawleys need to learn the same thing. 

[DianeDobbler]

I think people did have butlers. In fact, butlers were the one household staff position that lasted. It was the entire set-up that the butler was meant to supervise - footmen, housemaids, kitchen maids, personal maids, valets, under-butlers, cook, assistant cooks, cooking staff - that went down the drain. Roles were consolidated in the butler. I think Jeeves even did the occasional bit of vacuuming for Bertie Wooster in his flat in PJ Wodehouse's books. The Butler became a valet/personal assistant as well as a butler. A basic set-up for a reduced well-to do household was a butler, a housekeeper and a cook. Perhaps a gardner if there were gardens. There are butlers today. Butlers have married/had affairs with/been the heir of their mistresses's estates. People continued and some continue to have butlers. They discontinued having the maid that brushed one's hair and actually put on the accessories. That ritual with Mary and Anna became absolutely ludicrous and pathetic - particularly the hair brushing. Mary had a damn bob, not a long mass of hair. There were no more corsets. She could dress herself with no trouble.

I think if Thomas Barrow had landed in a household where the husband and wife still had a pulse, where there were social visits in and among the neighborhood, where there was extended family and pets and maybe the husband and wife had LIVES, instead of living in what amounted to a tomb for the living, his new position might have suited him very well. A butler and a staff of two who have to put together maybe a twice monthly dinner party, make accomodations for visitors, arrange for improvements to the home, work for people who are actually living, wouldn't be falling comatose as Barrow was while attending his new employers.

Anyway, look at the Dowager's home. She had a butler and a maid. I believe if she were not so advanced in years and still wearing some clothes she couldn't get into and out of herself, she'd have had a butler in Spratt, and Danker would have been a housekeeper/light cook, and essentially Spratt and Danker would have functioned in the role that became common much later - the "couple" hired to live in and handle the home front, sometimes combining responsibilities.

[Tetraneutron]

We learn, in one of the scenes where Spratt is causing drama, that Isobel chooses not to have a butler. Just a cook and housekeeper. It was actually the opposite - the cooks, cleaners, and gardeners stayed on (although their positions went from live-in to daily, and then part-time) as people needed food to be cooked and floors to be cleaned more than they needed clothes put on and someone pouring their wine at dinner. (If you think about it, it was kind of weird on the show that after Ethel left, we never saw any housemaids on any staff. Gwen left, Anna got promoted). Like in the couple arrangements you mentioned. Something more casual, without the strict hierarchy of the servant class we saw in season 1, with the butler ruling all. That's why, throughout season 6, all the jobs Thomas interviewed for were positions asking him to be a jack-of-all-trades. Or as Thomas put it, a "one man band". He was asked if he knew how to drive, for instance. And the guy interviewing asked if he was married. Because by 1925, it was increasingly common for household staff, even senior staff, to have home lives. 

 

Modern butlers today are not at all like on the show. They're more like executive secretaries or personal assistants. I remember Jim Carter gave an interview where he said he didn't ask modern butlers anything when he was researching his role because the position has changed so drastically they wouldn't be able to tell him anything useful. 

 

 

I think if Thomas Barrow had landed in a household where the husband and wife still had a pulse, where there were social visits in and among the neighborhood, where there was extended family and pets and maybe the husband and wife had LIVES, instead of living in what amounted to a tomb for the living, his new position might have suited him very well.

The point the show was making was those kinds of jobs were on their way out.  Even if Thomas had landed with a fun, younger couple, he's not having Carson's job. He's not going to supervise a big staff where his word is God and everyone's jockeying for position and he can make or break someone's career. In 1900, being a servant in a grand house was something of an aspirational job, if you were a poor farmer or labourer. And supervising a house gave you a small measure of power. That's all gone now. Thomas would be "supervising" an old cook and a few village girls who see this as something to do until they get married or work in cafes. He will never be what Carson was, whether he stayed with the Crawleys or not. 

 

Unless they showed him as the new Bates, using his scheming to help Henry screw over his business rivals or something. That might have been fun. 

[DianeDobbler]

I am saying exactly the opposite about Thomas. Of course the old traditional butler situation is on its way out. But simply having butler experience (with a driver's license), meant that the butler role could evolve, and the person holding the job could evolve with it.

 

Whereas a footman and a personal ladies maid were both out of luck.

[AllyB]

Unless they showed him as the new Bates, using his scheming to help Henry screw over his business rivals or something. That might have been fun. 

I would have liked an end for Thomas where he ended up working with Tom and Henry. Maybe it could have been Thomas rather than Spratt who was the mysterious columnist. It would have made more sense, he is sharp, with a scathing wit, has always wanted more for himself than life as a servant, has more scope for observing social satire in the big house than Spratt does with the dowager. Then Tom and Henry, with help from Edith and her editrix, could have set up some sort of motor car magazine. That would have combined both their experience with cars and Tom's amazing writing skills (which he must have as there was no other way a chauffeur in England was going to get a job as a journalist on a national paper in Ireland). It could have set Tom and the editrix up with more scenes together and established something of a relationship other than having her catch Edith's bouquet while Tom stands beside her and comments.

 

Then once Edith fills them in on Thomas' moonlighting, they could have taken on Thomas as writer and general staff manager. And there could have been a photographer/printer/car driver for Thomas to have dealings with and eventually find love. That's my headcanon anyway.

[Featherhat]

My personal feelings for Thomas is that he should have tried to find work in a city with a (still mostly closeted) but "active for the 1920's" gay scene. In some places they were actually very active.

 

Having said that he did genuinely seem gratified to be Butler. No he wouldn't ever be a "Lord Carson" presiding over 50 staff, but he gets the respect he's craved for so long and seems to have made his peace with service (even if it wasn't always convincing). Maybe he's just one of those people who always talked the talk about leaving a job but never did for various reasons, whilst those like Gwen, who did actually put their money where their mouth was, succeeded. And if/when Downtown has to jettison the butler position, many of the American faux aristocracy or Hollywood moguls would be interested (a real Earl's old butler etc).

 

Tom being the advise columnist instead of Spratt has me in fits of laughter. Yes.

[Roseanna]

The second part of CS was shown here tonight. It seems that JF wanted to make everybody happy in love, although Thomas only got a job as a butler.

I must agree with Mrs Hughes about the British upper class wedding. It looked like a coctail party. And no wedding waltz! In many of our movies it's the most emotional moment in the wedding and on of the most popular movies a new waltz was composed which became quite popular in real weddings.

[Roseanna]

Then tried to write Bertie's mother as he did when she had no title and would have had to beg for every penny should Bertie decide to make her sing for her supper.

Even if Mrs Pelham hated Bertie marrying Edith because of her love child, her only chance was to persuade him in private not to do it. After she didn't succeed, there was never a real danger that she would have publicly resented the match, and even less that she should have revealed her secret for then she would have shamed also her son which she wouldn't never do but on the contrary pretend to be happy with the match and if there later were a scandal, she would have defended her family.

That she rose and cut short his speech *twice*, was quite impossible for she undermined *his* authority and she wouldn't do that in public, however she treated him in private.

[Roseanna]

And I guess Mary made an ambiguous statement or two that she and Edith would in future be better sisters, as when she said some things are just for sisters (or secrets) it harked to Edith telling her.

In the church Henry asked Mary if she and Edith were now best friends and Mary reproached him to be too soft in the head and explained that they were sisters which reminds me of saying that "you can choose your friends but not your relatives".

I hate Fellowes writing a line to Edith that Mary "gave back her life". Edith had a *life* as an independent woman with her magazine and her daughter. And even if Mary arranged the meeting in the Ritz, it was Bertie and Edith who decided to forgive past mistakes to each other and marry.

Also it was ridiculous from Tom to thank Laura from "saving Edith". It wasn't Laura who suggested that Edith would sink her sorrows in work but Edith decided it herself. And it was Edith who earlier gave work to Laura as an editor.

[Roseanna]

Fellowes not only has an overly idealized view of the British nobility for the times but also has an incredibly unrealistic prudery he instills on them as a class.  The twenties might not have been as raucous in Britain as they were in New York or Paris but they did roar.  And most notably among all those nobles who still had a spot of cash in the pockets.  It is one reason why social standards had plenty of supporters for Edward VIII making Wallis his queen when the other choice was abdication.  Not the majority but times had changed well before that let a Prince of Wales carouse with married women until he reached his forties and attained the throne.

I think that you miss the crux of the matter. Aristocracy (especially men but also married women who had provided a heir an spare) could do as they pleased provided that they did it in private. That was possible in the week end parties which gave ample opportunities - one had only to be in one's own bed before the servants woke (as Edith told Gregson). But in public there should be no scandal.

So it was OK to the Prince of Wales and even to the King to have a married woman as his mistress. His earlier mistresses, like Mrs Dudley ward, understood wholly that they never could become Queen, nor wished it.

However, with Mrs Simpson Edward began to behave against the rules by showing his relationship in public during the Mediterranian cruises which made headlines in American newspapers and thus damaged the British reputation abroad.

As far as I have know, the Establishment was firmly against the match while the lower classes were more understanding. The Church of England would never have crowned a divorcee as a Queen. The government would have resigned and the opposition had promised not to form a new government. The Dominions were against even the morganatic marriage.

[Roseanna]

Daisy was quite pretty with her new hairdo - and the first time she looked an adult woman (she was supposed to be a teenager in 1912 when the show began and she has looked just the same during the whole series, over a decade).

What I can't understand is why this modern-looking woman decided to move to the farm. After all, Mr Mason is only a tenant and we have seen that the position of tenants is dependent on the landlord (Drewes and Mr Mason in his former place).

Daisy was a trained cook who was earlier offered a job in America, so she would probably have got a good job also in London (or maybe as the head cook in Brancaster). On the other hand she worked hard to get education and visiting London she mourned how much she had missed in the kitchen, so she could have gone in Gwen's footsteps and train for some other profession. Both options could have been better than the one JF made her chose.

[Llywela]

Daisy was quite pretty with her new hairdo - and the first time she looked an adult woman (she was supposed to be a teenager in 1912 when the show began and she has looked just the same during the whole series, over a decade).

What I can't understand is why this modern-looking woman decided to move to the farm. After all, Mr Mason is only a tenant and we have seen that the position of tenants is dependent on the landlord (Drewes and Mr Mason in his former place).

Daisy was a trained cook who was earlier offered a job in America, so she would probably have got a good job also in London (or maybe as the head cook in Brancaster). On the other hand she worked hard to get education and visiting London she mourned how much she had missed in the kitchen, so she could have gone in Gwen's footsteps and train for some other profession. Both options could have been better than the one JF made her chose.

The thing is, though, that moving to the farm isn't about career or ambition or opportunity. It is about finally accepting Mr Mason as her family and finally being able to return the love and acceptance he has shown for her, which she has always been ambivalent about because a) she never felt she deserved it, and b) she feared it would be taken away from her the moment she came to rely on it (see also, her jealousy of Mr Mason's friendship with Mrs Patmore, her reluctance to share anyone she cares for with anyone else, plus she's never been good at thinking of others, her focus is always on her own emotional needs). For all her protestations about wanting to see social change, Daisy does not cope well with change of any kind (she reads almost autistic, at times). When Mr Mason first made her the offer of being his family and moving to the farm with him, it was seen by many here as a huge opportunity for her to escape the drudgery of service, but she has dithered over it for years, and while I personally feel that she was better off staying at the Abbey and progressing up through the ranks as she has (she's gone from scullery maid to assistant cook since season one), it has always been clear that her reluctance to accept the offer was more about fear of change than anything else. She's severely emotionally stunted, basically. So her decision to move to the farm is significant because it shows Daisy finally taking a positive step forward in her emotional life - accepting Mr Mason as family, trusting him to continue to love and support her in the longer-term, recognising his needs as well as her own (he's a lonely old man who could do with her company and support), and acknowledging the possibility of building a wider family unit with Andy (and maybe even Mrs Patmore).

[Roseanna]

The thing is, though, that moving to the farm isn't about career or ambition or opportunity. It is about finally accepting Mr Mason as her family and finally being able to return the love and acceptance he has shown for her, which she has always been ambivalent about because a) she never felt she deserved it, and b) she feared it would be taken away from her the moment she came to rely on it (see also, her jealousy of Mr Mason's friendship with Mrs Patmore, her reluctance to share anyone she cares for with anyone else, plus she's never been good at thinking of others, her focus is always on her own emotional needs). For all her protestations about wanting to see social change, Daisy does not cope well with change of any kind (she reads almost autistic, at times). When Mr Mason first made her the offer of being his family and moving to the farm with him, it was seen by many here as a huge opportunity for her to escape the drudgery of service, but she has dithered over it for years, and while I personally feel that she was better off staying at the Abbey and progressing up through the ranks as she has (she's gone from scullery maid to assistant cook since season one), it has always been clear that her reluctance to accept the offer was more about fear of change than anything else. She's severely emotionally stunted, basically. So her decision to move to the farm is significant because it shows Daisy finally taking a positive step forward in her emotional life - accepting Mr Mason as family, trusting him to continue to love and support her in the longer-term, recognising his needs as well as her own (he's a lonely old man who could do with her company and support), and acknowledging the possibility of building a wider family unit with Andy (and maybe even Mrs Patmore).

That would be OK in the Middle Ages, but DA describes 1920ies and, while Daisy loves Mr Mason, why would a modern woman (her new hairstyle!) want to live with "extended family" instead of creating a life of her own?

That Tom chose to live with his in-laws, was quite strange too.

[Llywela]

That would be OK in the Middle Ages, but DA describes 1920ies and, while Daisy loves Mr Mason, why would a modern woman (her new hairstyle!) want to live with "extended family" instead of creating a life of her own?

Because she's an orphan who was in service by the time she hit puberty and has never known an actual family life of her own? Plus, people from that social class (my own family background, so I'm not talking academically here) often tended to live with extended family until far, far later than the 1920s, because it just wasn't financially feasible to do otherwise. The days of young, single people of working class background living alone in a flat or house of their own were still a long way off in 1925.

 

Daisy has always been hesitant to leave the cloistered life of the Abbey, for all the noise she's made about desiring social change. Moving to the farm is a strong first step in a new direction. Arguably one she should have taken years ago, but nonetheless it's a solid first step for her.

[Roseanna]

Because she's an orphan who was in service by the time she hit puberty and has never known an actual family life of her own? Plus, people from that social class (my own family background, so I'm not talking academically here) often tended to live with extended family until far, far later than the 1920s, because it just wasn't financially feasible to do otherwise. The days of young, single people of working class background living alone in a flat or house of their own were still a long way off in 1925.

 

Daisy has always been hesitant to leave the cloistered life of the Abbey, for all the noise she's made about desiring social change. Moving to the farm is a strong first step in a new direction. Arguably one she should have taken years ago, but nonetheless it's a solid first step for her.

Why first step? If Daisy moves to the farm, she stays there - until checked out by George who wants modernize agriculture after WW2.

However, yours is a nice explanation based on the character and could be true, if Fellowes were keen to build consistent characters.

But he wasn't. He was most interested in plots. Most of all, in finale he wanted to make everybody happy and obviously it meant that almost all except Thomas had to have at least romantic interest. The result was like eating too much chocolate.

[Llywela]

Why first step? If Daisy moves to the farm, she stays there - until checked out by George who wants modernize agriculture after WW2.

However, yours is a nice explanation based on the character and could be true, if Fellowes were keen to build consistent characters.

But he wasn't. He was most interested in plots. Most of all, in finale he wanted to make everybody happy and obviously it meant that almost all except Thomas had to have at least romantic interest. The result was like eating too much chocolate.

I agree that Fellowes is more interested in plot than character, but I really don't think I'm putting that much spin on it. I think Daisy's issues have been pretty clearly laid out on-screen over the years, even if told in slow motion. And her character has been very consistent throughout. She has always been socially awkward and emotionally stunted, she has always talked a good talk about wanting better while simultaneously backing away from any prospect of actual change, she has always craved love but then not known what to do with it when it was offered, she has always been jealous of anyone getting close to the people she is fond of for fear of them replacing her in their affections, and so on.

 

She probably won't leave the farm when she moves there, no, because all the signals are that she'll finally get her love life in order and marry Andy, who will also move to the farm to take it on when Mr Mason gets too old, so that all three of them get a happy ending rolled together in one: Mr Mason gets a new family in his old age, Andy gets to become a farmer as he apparently wishes, and Daisy gets love and the family she never had. So they'll build a life and family together on the farm, and Downton Abbey will finally lose its last footman, leaving Thomas to serve dinner on his own with no one to lord it over.