S05.E12: Souls Of The Departed

[scenicbyway]

Here's a quandary, if Cora could summon a boat, why didn't she hop on it?  Magick Regina, Henry and Robin on it and take off back to Storybrooke?  She's got a bunch of live souls to trade places with, so why didn't she take advantage of that?

[YaddaYadda]

Here's a quandary, if Cora could summon a boat, why didn't she hop on it?  Magick Regina, Henry and Robin on it and take off back to Storybrooke?  She's got a bunch of live souls to trade places with, so why didn't she take advantage of that?

 

I don't think she could summon the boat. She "arranged" for it because she had a deal with Hades. She gets Regina to leave the UW, and she gets to move on. 

 

I thought Cora's most interesting line was when she told Hades he was supposed to save them right before he turned her into her old self. I actually wonder if didn't also take away her magic.

[Curio]

I thought Cora's most interesting line was when she told Hades he was supposed to save them right before he turned her into her old self. I actually wonder if didn't also take away her magic.

 

If Hades was smart, he'd take away everyone's magic, except for his.

[KingOfHearts]

It's entirely possible that Neal did have unfinished business, but resolved it on his own in the Underworld and later entered the better place. Perhaps he did have lingering feelings about Henry, but then had some touching moments and decided he would be just fine. He seemed to get information about the Underworld from somewhere.

[YaddaYadda]

If Hades was smart, he'd take away everyone's magic, except for his.

 

Technically, I would agree with this, but Cora and Regina as well as Rumple weren't born with their magic, so he should be able to take that from them. But Emma like Zelena were born with their powers, so how would he take that away if he had to?

 

More usage of the magic cuff?

[KAOS Agent]

 

Henry Sr. didn't want Regina to kill Snow, but he was fine sending a random Black Knight to his death.

 

I'm pretty confused about this too. So Regina can kill anyone except Snow White and it's totally cool? Village slaughter is fine, so long as the target you're ultimately after isn't harmed. That's pretty messed up. Also I'm not sure the symbolism there is where they want to go. Black Knight's life vs Snow White's life. Umm. Maybe they should have thought this through just a bit more.

[Rumsy4]

 

I thought Cora's most interesting line was when she told Hades he was supposed to save them right before he turned her into her old self. I actually wonder if didn't also take away her magic.

 

I really liked the fate dealt to Cora in the end. I too think she must have lost her magic. I'm glad the writers kept Cora the same as ever. Even when she originally had her heart, she abandoned an infant for her own selfish desires. So, I'm glad getting her heart back did not magically change her into a fount of warmth and kindness. And also, hallelujah! the writers did not make Snow apologize to Cora for killing her!

 

Whether it was fan service or not, I thought the scene with Neal did exactly what it was meant to do, suck the hope out of Emma. ...Next thing you know, Emma is standing in the diner telling everyone how this is hopeless after having been there 10 minutes.

 

That is a good point. Douchefire does suck the life out of everything. I wish the writers had brought Merlin to deliver the cryptic (& totally useless) warning instead. That would have been rather fun.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Chaos Theory]

I'm pretty confused about this too. So Regina can kill anyone except Snow White and it's totally cool? Village slaughter is fine, so long as the target you're ultimately after isn't harmed. That's pretty messed up. Also I'm not sure the symbolism there is where they want to go. Black Knight's life vs Snow White's life. Umm. Maybe they should have thought this through just a bit more.

I think you're thinking it through a little too much. The main issue with Henry Sr was trying to get Regina to give up her quest for vengenous and look for happiness elsewhere. Switching hearts was messed up yes but it bought him time to reach his daughter before she killed Snow White and in his mind turned her heart black for good. As long as Snow White was alive he felt there was hope for his daughter.

What he did was messed up but he was desperate to save his daughter from Cora and herself.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[FierceAfroChick]

I think that's my biggest gripe. If I thought of this episode as being another random episode in the middle of the season, I wouldn't be so bitter about it and would have considered it fairly high quality. But knowing that it was the milestone 100th and that the writers had been planning this huge episode for months negatively impacted my viewing of it.

 

Co-sign.

[kili]

What he did was messed up but he was desperate to save his daughter from Cora and herself.

 

I hope Henry Sr. had to make peace with the Black Knight, King Leo and Jefferson before he got to move on. The guy had his own villainous deeds he needed to apologize for.

 

Why would anybody take on the job of Jester in Regina's Court? She must have gone through 5 or 6 of them a week.

[Shanna Marie]

It just struck me: If Storybrooke looks like the Underworld because that's where the Dark Curse came from, then that means Maine looks like the Underworld -- and that means Stephen King has been right all along!

 

So these people have left the town on its own again. The mayor, the two sheriffs, the teacher, the pawn shop guy, and ...what does Robin do all day? They took with them the author. Did they leave the dwarfs in charge again? Arthur and the gang are still running around. Wouldn't it make sense to leave someone behind with magic or at least a gun?

Yeah, considering that Arthur has an army of brainwashed knights and other citizens, since the entire kingdom of Camelot is there now, I wouldn't be surprised if Team Underworld gets back to find Arthur in charge. I don't think that rinky-dink jail cell is going to hold him for long. And if it does, I hope someone passes him the occasional pop tart.

 

Was Rumple's conversation with Belle a flashback from when he saw Chip, or did he conjure up some way to communicate with her from something he saw in the shop? There was something about the way that conversation was staged that made me think it was some kind of holographic projection Skype thing going on, but there was nothing else that really indicated it. And way to make yourself sound like a noble and selfless hero after pulling off the ultimate selfish act, Rumple.

 

In one column she did say she didn't want to lose him and that she loves him. But in the other column she stabbed him and killed him. I can see that he might see that as a mixed message.

I think he'd take into consideration the fact that he demanded that she stab and kill him and she did so reluctantly. I don't think he'd consider that she'd come after him, mostly because that's not really something people do, in general. But also, he has that self-loathing thing going on and he died after being a Dark One and nearly killing Emma's whole family, so he probably can't imagine anyone going to great lengths to save him. He probably imagines that they'd deem him a hero for the way he died but would move on without going to any extremes.

[Curio]

The show really missed an opportunity to have Emma fill Neal in on the fact that she now has a little brother named Neal and how that's not weird at all.

[Guest]

I for one never wanted to see Pan again, but why would he be in child form in purgatory/Hades? I realize they wanted to use Robbie Kay since he was the big bad of last season but Rumple's father transformed into his adult self right before Rumple killed him, and only the magic of Neverland made him a child again anyway. Seems to me he'd be an adult in Hades. 

 

Based on Hades turning Cora back to the Miller's daughter, I think that Hades controls the guise they take.  So Pan likely negotiated being young again with Hades and has to do Hades bidding in someway in trade.

[SailorGirl]

Question: Does Regina know that when the clock moves a soul is saved/is a clock ticking to indicate a soul saved a generally known aspect of Underworld legend/lore?  She stood there watching it and saw it tick forward and got a big smile on her face, and then walked on to catch up with the others. That made no sense to me. 

 

Also, I thought it was some sort of missile or nuclear weapon Cora walked by in the library. My immediate thought was they'd set off the weapon to destroy the underworld and launch themselves back to regular Storybrook. . .  

Edited March 8, 2016 by SailorGirl

[sharky]

It's not a missile. It's actually a stack used to help alleviate any steam being released by an underground steam system, so it would make sense to have them in the Underworld. Here's an example of one in New York City. And here's an explanation of the steam system in New York with another picture as an example. And no wonder I was confused when I saw people asking about this -- apparently New York City is one of only a few cities that have a system like this. I didn't know that until just now!

Edited March 8, 2016 by sharky

[Camera One]

I can believe that Neal had no unfinished business. Sure, there was probably stuff he hadn't done that he wished he could have done, but that's true for anyone, especially someone who dies before his time. But he was in a good place when he died. He'd reconciled with his father, Emma, and Hook and he'd met his son. There wasn't some task he left unfinished or wrong that he hadn't set right.

 

I'm not sure how that's going to work for villains, though. Do all villains get sent to the Underworld for a second chance, and depending on how things go in the Underworld, they either move on to the good place or the bad place? Or do their evil schemes count as unfinished business? Is Cruella there because she still needs to find Isaac to get the restriction on killing removed?

You have no unfinished business if you're really boring and A&E never wants to write for you again. You have unfinished business if you're a fan favorite (aka a villain).

[KAOS Agent]

I think you're thinking it through a little too much. The main issue with Henry Sr was trying to get Regina to give up her quest for vengenous and look for happiness elsewhere. Switching hearts was messed up yes but it bought him time to reach his daughter before she killed Snow White and in his mind turned her heart black for good. As long as Snow White was alive he felt there was hope for his daughter.

What he did was messed up but he was desperate to save his daughter from Cora and herself.

 

I understand where Henry was coming from and his desperation to save Regina from herself, so his actions were understandable. It's a little disconcerting that after seeing him be responsible for the death of some random guy, he goes off to heaven, but whatever. However, this is just another in a long line of episodes where we are told that Regina killing Snow is what would cross the line and make her irredeemable. Slaughtered villages, murdered children, torture, rape, slavery and curses do not cross the moral event horizon, but killing Snow would. This is extremely messed up. One innocent's murder is not any less important than another and the way it's been framed, these people don't really matter in the grand scheme of things with regards to Regina.  

 

Maybe if they were collateral damage from the feud it would be less icky, but we see her killing people for no reason other than that she's displeased. That jester was not Snow White related. The groom was not Snow White related. Once they started showing her just willy nilly murdering people and then claim she's only crossed the line when it comes to Snow, I have to question what they are thinking. And this episode was particularly egregious in that they laid it out as exactly Snow's murder = moral event horizon, everyone else is just dead with no consequences to the soul.

 

I want to be clear that this is not meant to be taken as Regina hate or something, it's that the show displays such a casual disregard for the value of human life. That jester's death was played for comic value and I wish they'd stop it. Why not poof the annoying jester away to annoy the hell out of Snow instead of murdering him? Can we please stop with the senseless murder?

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe if they were collateral damage from the feud it would be less icky, but we see her killing people for no reason other than that she's displeased.

That's the weird thing about the idea that killing Snow is what would have truly turned her dark. At least with Snow she believed she had a reason for payback (even if she was wrong). She had been wronged, and Snow played a role in that. So how is killing for that reason worse than killing random innocent people because she's annoyed with the world in general?

 

Maybe it has to do with the pointlessness of revenge -- killing Snow wouldn't make her happy, so if she succeeded in her revenge plan and killed Snow, she'd still be bitter and angry but would have nothing she could do about it, and that would make her truly dark (because I can't see her having the Hook realization of how empty vengeance is). But I'm not sure I can understand how being angry at the world in general and killing people left and right because she doesn't care about anything anymore would be all that much worse than being angry at one person and killing people left and right because she's in a bad mood. Perhaps it's that she can still come back from it while Snow is alive. She can choose to give up on vengeance and turn herself around, while if she kills Snow and still isn't happy, there's no coming back from that because there's nothing to reconcile with.

[Helena Dax]

I don't think Hades is the one hurting Hook. Someone else is doing that to him, maybe someone with an old grudge. 

 

i guess this Underworld we're seeing was created only for people from the Enchanted Forest and that's why it's so small. 

 

I'm glad Peter Pan is back. It'd be great if he ended up as the new DO

Edited March 8, 2016 by Helena Dax

[Guest]

I think you're thinking it through a little too much. The main issue with Henry Sr was trying to get Regina to give up her quest for vengenous and look for happiness elsewhere. Switching hearts was messed up yes but it bought him time to reach his daughter before she killed Snow White and in his mind turned her heart black for good. As long as Snow White was alive he felt there was hope for his daughter.

 

But he didn't need to buy time by switching hearts.  He just needed to steal it and let Cora gift Regina an empty box. Or go original tale and use an animal heart.

 

What happened is what usually happens.  They got enamored of an idea for a scene and didn't think it through to its logical conclusion.  Or they thought it through and decided to go ahead anyway because they were so enamored of their idea.  They literally used the black knight's death as a punch line to the Jiminy Cricket joke.  But it was a black night so that is ok.

 

I also noted that they made a point of Regina killing that villager but its ok because dead is relative now and he was going to betray Snow.  Regina got to be horrified over Cora "killing" her former victim which Cora didn't even point out the hypocrisy to her. 

[Jul 68]

I loved seeing Pan again, I hope he and Rumple can switch roles. Rumple can stay there and let Pan return!

As much as I love Robert Carlyle, and I LOVE ROBERT CARLYLE, his talent is being wasted at this point. I'm all for trading Rumpy for Pan and letting Mr. Carlyle move on to better parts.

ETA: It was so nice to see Emma Caulfield on the screen again. She looked terrific.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Jul 68

[KingOfHearts]

This episode's biggest problem is that it attempts to be three things at once - an introduction to the Underworld, a celebration of 100 episodes, and a heavy-hearted Regina centric. While Henry Sr.'s story and the Underworld are both dealt with appropriately, it utterly fails to showcase the show's past. Nods like having a Snow vs. Regina flashback or a scene with Neal don't pan out very well. There definitely lied a lack of storyline balance. What it does accomplish is great, but what it doesn't sticks out.

[Dianthus]

I couldn't even work up the urge to flip tables with this one. Glad I was spoiled going into it. Watching what was basically a love-fest devoted to my least favorite character on the show was less than ideal.

As for Regina hate, let's see...she's a whiny, entitled, petulant child who can't appreciate the good things in her life and constantly plays the victim while victimizing others. What's not to loathe?

[Jul 68]

Was Rumple's conversation with Belle a flashback from when he saw Chip, or did he conjure up some way to communicate with her from something he saw in the shop? There was something about the way that conversation was staged that made me think it was some kind of holographic projection Skype thing going on, but there was nothing else that really indicated it.

I was of the impression that it was a memory of a conversation. My guess is that it was hastily written, shot, and tagged on to the epi to address the fan outcry regarding how Rumple left while Belle was sleeping and never told her what was going on.

I think they photographed it so dark to attempt to mask the actress' real life pregnancy. It failed that task rather miserably, IMO.

[Camera One]

That reminds me of during the hiatus when someone tweeted Adam, is Belle in the 100th Episode, and Adam goes, "Why wouldn't she be?"  Well, it wasn't exactly organically included.

 

Why didn't Belle join in on the adventure?  Didn't she want to see the World?  I'm sure Hell is as worthy a destination as anywhere on Earth.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Camera One

[Jul 68]

I recorded this episode and then the machine ate it

Wait. What? You still use a VCR? Where can you buy blank tapes for one of those these days? <3

The Mills family doesn't care about the peasants. Not that Snow cared much either. Apparently, nobody cares about the common man.

I'm beginning to suspect that A&E are closet Republicans. :)

[Rumsy4]

I was of the impression that it was a memory of a conversation. My guess is that it was hastily written, shot, and tagged on to the epi to address the fan outcry regarding how Rumple left while Belle was sleeping and never told her what was going on.

 

What was hilarious is Rumple promised Belle that he would be back from the Underworld in a day. This is the same man who had to wait for 200+ years to find a portal to the Land w/o Magic. Now Hell is just a day trip. 

[Camera One]

This episode lasted 2 hours, right?  There's still hope they'll leave within 24 Hours!  

[KAOS Agent]

 

Wait. What? You still use a VCR? Where can you buy blank tapes for one of those these days? <3

 

Apparently I don't use one anymore. Stupid machine. I was being all legal and everything. Shockingly, one can find tapes at the Family Dollar although I've been using an old tape and recording over Veronica Mars episodes, so I haven't actually bought any there.

 

 

I think they photographed it so dark to attempt to mask the actress' real life pregnancy. It failed that task rather miserably, IMO.

 

Ha. I didn't notice Emilie's bump as much as I noticed Ginny's. If you're trying to hide a baby bump, don't put the actress in an outfit that belts tightly at the waist and then show her in a full body shot. 

 

 

There definitely lied a lack of storyline balance. What it does accomplish is great, but what it doesn't sticks out.

 

I'm surprised that they used such a low key episode to introduce the arc. It was a very nice character piece, but the lack of action stood out. Now it appears like each episode will feature an internal struggle for each character that needs to move on. There's not a whole lot of promised action with magic and sword fighting and whatnot there. If you like the character whose centric it is, you'll enjoy them having some nice closure with whomever, but damn will that get boring. I hate the action, action, action all the time, but parts of this episode dragged due to the lack of it.  Of course, I know that they'll amp up the action later and future episodes will be unbalanced the other way where a character who should have more time devoted to closure will get the shaft.

 

On a semi-related note, someone noted elsewhere that this episode featured more screentime with Regina and her parents one on one than Emma & her parents have had in several seasons.

Edited March 8, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Curio]

I want to see the deleted scene from Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville where Jiminy pops out of Charming's pants, and the dwarves are like, "Whoa, man. That's not cool. What are you, some kind of pervert?" And then Jiminy's like, "But you guys thought it was hilarious when I popped out of Snow's boobs!" And then I'm like, "Oh god, is this seriously a flashback that the show runners have been planning for months to celebrate the 100th episode milestone?"

 

On a semi-related note, someone noted elsewhere that this episode featured more screentime with Regina and her parents one on one than Emma & her parents have had in several seasons.

 

Well, that's because Regina had "legitimate" issues to work out with her parents. Emma and her parents have none. They're totally fine. Nothing to see there folks, let's move along to the next egg baby contrivance...

[Camera One]

Regina and her parents are important and interesting.  Snow, Charming and Emma are boring unless they are doing very bad things they'll regret for ever and ever.  

 

I guess they were *really* stuck on how to make it seem like Snow was about to die, and they thought of that brilliant "cricket in the bosom" explanation.  How convenient timing that Regina was squeezing her heart at the exact same thing.  Give me a break!

[tennisgurl]

You know, the stuff with present day Regina and her parents was pretty decent, but I swear, I just do not understand why the writers, who clearly want us to feel sorry for Regina all the damn time, just KEEP SHOWING her senselessly murdering people! Showing Regina murdering random people does not endear me to her, even if she has stopped killing people as of now. Stop reminding me of Regina's endless list of victims if you want me to feel bad for her and cheer for her redemption! And if you must show it, do NOT use it for cheap comedy! Come on, show! 

 

But I guess, since we didn't know those people personally, they dont count right? 

[jhlipton]

 I also can't wait to see how Hades knows about Zelena...he seemed to be offended on her behalf.

 

Hades would know all the secrets of the dead, so anyone killed during the Zelena eps would be able to fill him in.

 

 

Magic only has three rules.  The First Rule of Magic is that it cannot be used to bring back the dead.  The Second Rule of Magic is that it cannot be used to make someone fall in love.  The Third Rule of Magic is that it cannot be used to change the past (i.e., no time travel).

 

The Fourth Rule is that the first three are totally subservient to PLOT!!!

 

When Rumple killed his dad he was the adult version. Why is he Pan in the UW?

No surprise that Robbie Kay was miles better in his one scene compared to his entire stint on Heroes: Reborn (not blaming him, because that show was just that bad), and I enjoy him and Rumple facing off. 

 

Robbie Kay was one of the few decent things about Heroes: Regurgitated and is one the the best actors on this show.  That's reason enough to have him around.

[Rumsy4]

After watching the episode, a friend of mine thinks Emma loves both Neal and Hook, and Hook has just taken Neal's place now. My friend is neutral about CS and dislikes Neal. That SF scene diminishes CS. Poor Hook, after everything, this is making him look like the leftover option for Emma. Fucking Bagel.

[Serena]

There's now more continuity for "random talking animal comes out of Snow's delicate bits" than for most things in the show.

[PixiePaws1]

After watching the episode, a friend of mine thinks Emma loves both Neal and Hook, and Hook has just taken Neal's place now. My friend is neutral about CS and dislikes Neal. That SF scene diminishes CS. Poor Hook, after everything, this is making him look like the leftover option for Emma. Fucking Bagel.

I haven't seen it thanks to the timely warning from the wondrous Souris..but have read different snippets of the dialog. ..now this is actually working for me because in my head I'm hearing Emma's most sarcastic deadpan voice telling FuckWitFire she would have come for him too ....then laughing herself sick thinking 'and if you believe that I have some swampland in Tallahassee to sell you, too' Edited March 8, 2016 by PixiePaws1

[Eolivet]

I thought the scene with Emma and Neal is actually making the point this was not a healthy relationship.

 

I saw this with Annalise and Sam in "How to Get Away with Murder." This idea that nobody could understand why Annalise hugged the pillow of her dead lying, cheating, slut-shaming, probably slightly racist husband to her chest and breathed in his smell. Relationships are complicated and when someone is taken from you before all of your business is resolved, of course there are going to be mixed feelings. No matter what Neal might have done to Emma, real or perceived, she still didn't want him dead. To me, it doesn't mean she loves Hook less, but merely that Neal died before she could resolve what their relationship actually was or meant to her, and all her feelings -- good and bad.

 

The last thing I ever would've expected Emma to do if confronted with Neal is be all business-like and proper. Plus, this isn't the Vampire Diaries, where dead people just walk around all the time and it's no big deal. She's seeing a dead person she thought she'd never see again. If I got to see someone I once cared about, who I never thought I'd see again, I'd be pretty emotional, too. Somehow, everything that person did to me in life would fade away.

 

If Neal stuck around and Emma had been allowed to date Hook and gradually resolve any unfinished business she had with Neal, and they had become peaceable co-parents and then Neal had died, I don't think the scene would've been the same. Cut Emma a break is all I'm saying. By getting so emotional and teary over Neal, she's actually making everyone's point about the type of relationship she had with him.

[YaddaYadda]

By getting so emotional and teary over Neal, she's actually making everyone's point about the type of relationship she had with him.

 

This.

 

Plus they talked about Henry, and how he is growing up so fast, and how he misses his father. That is hard, and it's sad, especially when we know she isn't just paying lip service, and that Henry really does miss his father.

[Curio]

I think what frustrates me the most about how they portray Neal and Emma at this point is that they only portray the relationship in a positive light now. Much like Regina and Emma or Emma and her parents, there are never any reminders about unfortunate past incidents, and as long as the writers never bring up those grey areas, they trick a lot of the audience into thinking everything is fine and dandy. The last time Emma was able to say anything remotely negative about Neal in New York City Serenade, "He didn’t just leave. He set me up to take the fall for his crime and left me in jail. He doesn’t even know you exist. He doesn’t deserve to," this was when her memories were still wiped. Ever since then, it's always been puppies and rainbows whenever Neal is brought up, and freaking babies are named after the guy, and apparently hook-up songs for middle schoolers are chosen by him, and it's this bizarre posthumous celebration of a character who wasn't perfect by any means. I liked viewing Neal as a grey character and I was disappointed with how the writers cut his story off too soon, but I didn't sign up for this strange beatification of his character they're doing now.

 

Even just a small line from Emma in this episode that questioned Neal's pessimism, such as, "You don't think I can succeed?" would have been a good counterpoint to all the positive fluff. They still could have kept the forehead kiss and the emotional conversation about Henry, but adding in a line like that would have given the audience a reminder of why Hook is worth saving and the difference between the two men—Hook is the one who constantly tells Emma she'll succeed, while Neal is the one who tells her to not go to the Underworld. Maybe I'm not giving the writers enough credit and they purposely wanted that message to be subtle, but it's frustrating to see the audience interpret this scene as a sign of Emma liking Neal more and that Hook is just the convenient last man standing.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Curio

[tri4335]

I think what frustrates me the most about how they portray Neal and Emma at this point is that they only portray the relationship in a positive light now. Much like Regina and Emma or Emma and her parents, there's never any reminders about unfortunate past incidents, and as long as the writers never bring up those grey areas, they trick a lot of the audience into thinking everything is fine and dandy. The last time Emma was able to say anything remotely negative about Neal in New York City Serenade, "He didn’t just leave. He set me up to take the fall for his crime and left me in jail. He doesn’t even know you exist. He doesn’t deserve to," this was when her memories were still wiped. Ever since then, it's always been puppies and rainbows whenever Neal is brought up, and freaking babies are named after the guy, and apparently hook-up songs for middle schoolers are chosen by him, and it's this bizarre posthumous celebration of a character who wasn't perfect by any means. I liked viewing Neal as a grey character and I was disappointed with how the writers cut his story off too soon, but I didn't sign up for this strange beatification of his character they're doing now.

 

Even just a small line from Emma in this episode that questioned Neal's pessimism, such as, "You don't think I can succeed?" would have been a good counterpoint to all the positive fluff. They still could have kept the forehead kiss and the emotional conversation about Henry, but adding in a line like that would have given the audience a reminder of why Hook is worth saving and the difference between the two men—Hook is the one who constantly tells Emma she'll succeed, while Neal is the one who tells her to not go to the Underworld. Maybe I'm not giving the writers enough credit and they purposely wanted that message to be subtle, but it's frustrating to see the audience interpret this scene as a sign of Emma liking Neal more and that Hook is just the convenient last man standing.

 

THIS ^THIS^SO MUCH THIS!!

 

There was so much they could've done with Neal and yet they chose to kill him. It is so annoying now that all Emma and her family get to do now is spout how magnificent he is in direct conflict to the grayness that was shown on the screen. There really is a disconnect between what A & E show the audience and what they think they show the audience. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by tri4335

[Snowbow]

Do you know where I can get the picture on Regina's dresse for her birthday, it was wonderful and I want to make it.

Thanks

[Curio]

Do you know where I can get the picture on Regina's dresse for her birthday, it was wonderful and I want to make it.

 

If you google "once upon a time episode screencaps" you'll find a few good links that might help. This site is pretty decent if you're looking for an exact moment from the episode. (It appears they haven't added the most recent episode stills yet, but they should in a few days.)

Edited March 8, 2016 by Curio

[tennisgurl]

 

There was so much they could've done with Neal and yet they chose to kill him. It is so annoying now that all Emma and her family get to do now is spout how magnificent he is in direct conflict to the grayness that was shown on the screen

I've talked about this before, but I feel its pertinent know. This show sucks at portraying moral grayness. Now, it certainly has characters do morally gray things, and has heroes doing bad things and villains doing good things, but its all on the surface. It never really wants to follow up, or show any real consequences for those acts of moral grayness. Like with Neal. He did something awful, but also did things that were good. He was a morally gray character. However, A & E are so locked into their " hero and villain" labels, that he had to be turned into a pure "hero" for him to fit into the show. The bad things he did are never brought up, and since he is a Good Guy, he is treated like everything he ever did was good. The show does not seem to be interested in good people who make mistakes, or do bad things for what they think are good reasons (like Snow killing Cora),it just wants to have heroes and villains, and as long as you a hero, anything and everything you did that was bad can be brushed away. 

[jaytee1812]

Do you know where I can get the picture on Regina's dresse for her birthday, it was wonderful and I want to make it.

Thanks

You could ask askouatfashion on tumblr they could find they dress for you.

[KAOS Agent]

Was anyone surprised that such a Regina-centric episode didn't show her with Robin hardly at all? She spent the time to go find Henry before going to save her father, but Robin didn't come along. The Henry/Henry scene could have happened with Robin standing in the background watching quietly before Regina introduced him to her father as well. Daddy meeting her soulmate and seeing what a great future she had in front of her would have been nice. It just seems odd that Robin didn't meet her father and wasn't around to support her should Cora have succeeded in shoving him into the pits of hell.

[YaddaYadda]

You know what shocked the hell out of me? When Regina told Cora that she loves the people she came to the UW with. Not gonna lie, my mouth dropped a bit at that line.

[Curio]

Was anyone surprised that such a Regina-centric episode didn't show her with Robin hardly at all? She spent the time to go find Henry before going to save her father, but Robin didn't come along. The Henry/Henry scene could have happened with Robin standing in the background watching quietly before Regina introduced him to her father as well.

 

Adam & Eddy were probably too nervous to include him in the fiery pits of hell scene with Henry Sr. because they were afraid of the Robin cardboard standup catching on fire.

 

I feel bad for Sean, because he's basically a glorified background extra at this point. The fact that he wasn't included in barely any of Regina's huge journey in this episode just goes to show how he's not really needed in her (or the show's) story at this point.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Curio

[StaceyNotStacie]

I didn't hate this episode, but it should have been a bit more considering that it was the 100th episode.  I, too, hope we get to see Graham in the underworld, but I probably have a better chance of winning the lottery.

 

I liked that David recognized James, but I was surprised that he didn't run after him and attempt to introduce himself.  

 

It's a shame that they couldn't get the singing jester from Galavant to play the jester during Regina's party.

[Curio]

He has no unfinished business? No songs he wants to tell his son about? Nothing to say to his power hungry father?

 

Neal choosing to visit Emma instead of his villainous father frustrates me more than anything. Rumple was the one who gave that heartfelt speech at Neal's grave saying, "And I pledge, Baelfire, I will be that man. Your heroism has shown me the way. I promise I'll spend my life repaying you for that." And then Rumple went and tried to kill Emma a couple days/weeks after that and was responsible for turning her dark. Way to make a promise to Neal on top of his grave and not deliver. If Neal is so "in love" with Emma, how in the hell is he not pissed off at his father for attempting to kill Emma after pledging on his dead son's name to become a better man? He doesn't have a few choice words for deal old dad who lied at his grave and attempted to kill the mother of his son numerous times? Or has the Camelot plot taught us that any and all actions while possessed by the Darkness can be hand-waved because the dark goop made them do it?

[KingOfHearts]

Neal's meeting with Emma is mostly pointless. You don't need a sign that says, "I'd Turn Back If I Were You" to let Emma know the Underworld is not a place you want to go to. There is nothing from a thematic or character perspective that gives a reason for him popping up in front of her again. As others have said, it's strange to begin #SaveHook with a scene about her douchey ex-boyfriend. If there was an issue with Emma going for Hook and not Neal, that's easily solved with the fact that he isn't even there. Thus, you don't even need to ask the question.

 

Why do the writers not want Henry to say goodbye to his father? Why do they not give a flip about his relationship with Rumple? Why give the "unfinished business" arc a scene with two people who already got plenty of closure*? It's just asinine.

 

* I meant closure as in what A&E have been willing to touch on.

Edited March 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts