S07.E15: I Would For You

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This episode will air in Canada on Thursday, March 3, so there will be spoilers in this thread between Thursday night and when the episode airs in the USA on Friday night!
 
 
 

While Stefan and Valerie search for a magical herb that can keep him hidden from Rayna, Damon comes up with his own plan to take her down for good. However, while at The Armory, Bonnie makes a shocking discovery about Rayna that brings Damon's plan to a screeching halt. Elsewhere, a conversation with Caroline leaves Stefan questioning their future together, while Matt decides it may be time to truly take a stand against the vampires of Mystic Falls. Finally, as the season's middle chapter draws to a close, Damon's desire to take himself out of the game ramps up as he races to complete unfinished business with Stefan and Bonnie.

Promo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zAuEydcWFM

Edited February 27, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Artsda]

So I guess that's it for the flashing forward and back? They did the full recap of all the 3 years in the future clips and then ended on a 3 years in the future cliffhanger.

 

They sure recycled that plot that they can't kill the hunter because everyone with the hunters scar will die too. It's no different than the reason they couldn't kill Klaus or The Originals because the entire sire line would die with them. 

 

I have no idea when Damon and Stefan moved back into their house. 

 

Does Stefan not know Caroline at all? I don't get how Klaus and Damon knew Caroline wasn't going to abandon 2 little girls she carried and go on the run, but Stefan did not know. I loved her and Alaric being a team and his tagging her in. She looked really happy.

 

I liked Damon giving BFF Alaric a letter. Also that Alaric got his letter with a bottle of whiskey and we only hear his letter. Not Stefan's or Bonnie's. 

 

Bonnie's whole reaction was so over the top. 

 

Stefan should have told Matt that Mystic Falls was their home first and pointed out they were part of The Founders.

[slayer2]

So I guess that's it for the flashing forward and back? They did the full recap of all the 3 years in the future clips and then ended on a 3 years in the future cliffhanger.

They sure recycled that plot that they can't kill the hunter because everyone with the hunters scar will die too. It's no different than the reason they couldn't kill Klaus or The Originals because the entire sire line would die with them.

I have no idea when Damon and Stefan moved back into their house.

Does Stefan not know Caroline at all? I don't get how Klaus and Damon knew Caroline wasn't going to abandon 2 little girls she carried and go on the run, but Stefan did not know. I loved her and Alaric being a team and his tagging her in. She looked really happy.

I liked Damon giving BFF Alaric a letter. Also that Alaric got his letter with a bottle of whiskey and we only hear his letter. Not Stefan's or Bonnie's.

Bonnie's whole reaction was so over the top.

Stefan should have told Matt that Mystic Falls was their home first and pointed out they were part of The Founders.

How would her reaction be over the top? Her best friend and the person she relies most on this world just told her she would never see him again in a letter. I think her reaction was extraordinarily understated frankly.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

How convenient that Rayna was killed right next to the campsite of a girl who wears the same clothes and shoe size she does! And how much more Buffy can they make her? "A vampire in love with a slayer! It's rather poetic. In a maudlin sort of way." And she even staked her vampire love!

 

Penny can fuck right off with her victim blaming Matt for letting the vampires take over Mystic Falls. It's not like Stefan, Damon, Elena, and Caroline were the ones destroying the town with violence and eating everyone left and right (haha, I mean, only every once in a while). Mystic Falls was still mostly normal when they were living there. It wasn't until Julian's vampires came into the picture that Mystic Falls turned into a complete disaster, so no, Penny, it's not Matt's fault for not kicking out his two girlfriends and their new boyfriends sooner. Gawd.

 

Matt took Penny's advice way too far. I mean, seriously, you think that Stefan is the problem? He is one of the only people/vampires who wants Mystic Falls to be the peaceful happy place it used to be. How does Matt think he's going to kick all of Julian's vampires out of town? He and Penny are going to kill them one by one? At least Buffy came to understand that not all demons are evil. Aside from Angel (and later Spike), she never would have staked Clem or Oz. Matt has been around the Scoobies long enough to comprehend that they are not the problem and this whole black and white all vampires are bad and must therefore leave town is just stupid.

 

How adorable and perfectly old timey is it that Damon seals his letters with wax? And I love that he sent Ric's letter with a bottle of booze.

 

Please explain to me how earlier in the episode, Stefan specifically told Damon that he couldn't be near Caroline because that would put Alaric's babies at risk as long as Rayna was alive (even though at that point he knew that Armory had captured her) but then it's perfectly okay for him to drive to Dallas to leave Damon's letter for Alaric and then creep up to the window like a creeper to creepily spy on his girlfriend? Make up your damn mind. Either you ARE putting Caroline and the babies at risk by being near them or you aren't. I mean, seriously, if you're already there, then knock on the door like a normal person and stay for dinner. If Rayna already managed to escape and is tracking you, YOU ARE ALREADY DRAWING HERE THERE.

 

But I did feel for Stefan and Bonnie. They both clearly wanted Damon to stay and he just abandoned them. I get that Damon believes he is protecting them by doing this because he is still in his wallowing in self pity phase where he thinks he is The Worst and always putting everyone at risk. I know he thinks that they are safer and better off without him around, but how could he look at either of them begging him to stay and just walk away?

 

It seems ridiculous that he's going to leave Stefan at the mercy of Rayna and do nothing to try to help him. It seems ludicrous that he is fine with never seeing his BFF Alaric again. It seems crazy that after Bonnie gave him that talking to that he just let her go. Is Elena's vagina really that magical that he's willing to wake up in 60 years and not see Stefan, Alaric, or Bonnie ever again? I find it hilariously ironic that in theory this is one of the more selfless things he has done but it ended up being a totally selfish thing because they don't want him to go and he is disregarding their feelings about that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I am quite certain that this is the first time in seven seasons that I have mentioned Elena's vagina. Besides, if her vagina is, in fact, magical then that's compliment.

[slayer2]

But I did feel for Stefan and Bonnie. They both clearly wanted Damon to stay and he just abandoned them. I get that Damon believes he is protecting them by doing this because he is still in his wallowing in self pity phase where he thinks he is The Worst and always putting everyone at risk. I know he thinks that they are safer and better off without him around, but how could he look at either of them begging him to stay and just walk away?

It seems ridiculous that he's going to leave Stefan at the mercy of Rayna and do nothing to try to help him. It seems ludicrous that he is fine with never seeing his BFF Alaric again. It seems crazy that after Bonnie gave him that talking to that he just let her go. Is Elena's vagina really that magical that he's willing to wake up in 60 years and not see Stefan, Alaric, or Bonnie ever again? I find it hilariously ironic that in theory this is one of the more selfless things he has done but it ended up being a totally selfish thing because they don't want him to go and he is disregarding their feelings about that.

Right? Glittery hoo-ha indeed! But then again this is Damon the one who broke Jeremy's neck without a second thought and got lucky that he was wearing the ring. He's not exactly known for long forecast planning. He tends to make rash decisions then spend the allotted time wallowing in them which I suspect he'll do here.

What kind of self-defeating, woe is me tizzy could allow him to believe that Bonnie's openly weeping face, and Stefan's desperation would do better without him is beyond me.

Truly if they are going to go the Buffy route with every damn thing on this show, then they should take note that when Buffy was worried she was negatively affecting those she loved she left town. She didn't take a magical power nap, she left town! It took her very short order to realized that mistake and she hustled right back in one episode. Damon is going to wake up to a lot of unhappy people, that's a certainty.

Edited March 4, 2016 by slayer2

[Aeryn13]

 

I get that Damon believes he is protecting them by doing this because he is still in his wallowing in self pity phase where he thinks he is The Worst and always putting everyone at risk.

 

But for the last several episodes the show through multiple characters hammered home the point - to Damon himself and to the viewers in general - that apparently he is the worst, he is putting everyone in danger and it would be so much better if he was gonna take himself out. Basically, they have been building up the story to the point that this is the decision Damon SHOULD make.

 

Then in this episode they play it as if it is the completely wrong decision. Seriously, what do you wanna say, show? What? Build-up and conclusion should have a consistent throughline. This storyline is all over the place. I really have no idea what the underlying point is and what the character was supposed to do? 

 

Is his little mark-swapping cliffhanger proposal the right one? I have no idea. I think so but by next episode, they might have already changed their mind again. Do these writers not talk to each other? 

[Couver]

"And this is what sends her into the loony bin? Not her dead Grams, her dead Dad, her vampire Mom, her agony as an Anchor, all the times she's died, lost her magic, her mind from Expression, her freedom, her friends ... It's Damon Salvatore not - dying for the rest of her life that breaks her?

 

 

That was my problem with their scene. I thought KG knocked it out of the park but it felt very forced. I like Bamon. But I think the show has done a poor job showing their friendship. We keep being told they are 'best friends' but a lot of that closeness seems to have developed off screen. Also they need to stop with the over use of best friends. You can care about your friends to. And it was weird having Bonnie say she was losing her bff while standing next to the coffin of her actual best friend. 

 

I mean if she managed to get over the fact that she will never see Elena again I don't know why the thought of not seeing Damon sent her into a tailspin. 

 

I was kind of cheering Matt on. I only wish he came to his decision on his own instead of getting that push from Penny. He's been slowly going down this road for the last 2 seasons anyway. I thought everything he said to Stefan was true if a bit harsh. And while I agree that the Salvatores didn't cause MF to fall into the state it is in now the collateral damage caused by their return to MF can't be ignored. How many innocent people died once Stefan, Damon, Katherine and the Originals came to town? The only thing I found weird was his threat. Who was he going to show the video footage to? Was he going to out all vampires? That seemed weird. 

 

I'm calling it now. The Armory wants to make more Rayna's and I'm guessing they need Bennett blood or something to do it. I hope Enzo isn't just using Bonnie in this 3 year jump. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Couver

[slayer2]

Yet,Elena hasn't been Bonnie's best friend (or anyone's frankly) since season 2 on account of her low-rent self-centred, solipsistic behaviour so I have no problem with Bamon's declaration of best friendship especially at the expense of the toxic one-sided "friendship" that was BonLena.

HE is the reason she came back from the dead and HE is the reason she came back from the prison world, not Elena. You spend four months with someone in close proximity and you get to know them better than you've known anybody, and four months in complete isolation? Fuggeddaboutit!

Damon and Bonnie by this point know each other better than Elena could ever know either of them based on the sheer volume of time they've spent together, just the two of them with nothing to learn but each other. It's not as if they could have gone out and seen movies and met with friends. They were living the same day over and over again all by themselves, that kind of bond is forever and runs deep and honestly no other ship (friendship or otherwise) on the show has had occasion to sit together for four months at dinner, do crosswords and watch The Bodyguard a million times (and whatever else they got up to). They are the only relationship that has ever interacted primarily as a relationship for an extended period of time without any sordid, impending disasters, sire bonds or immortal, narcisstic, unkillable assholes nipping at their heels. Which means they had time (nothing but time) to simply be themselves.

It makes complete sense to me that after everything she's endured having the person who knows her better than anyone (who she's probably spent the most amount of time with) "give up on her" would break Bonnie into a million pieces. Who wouldn't it do that to?

Edited March 4, 2016 by slayer2

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Plus who will make pancakes for Bonnie now? I kid, I kid. ITA that four months of 24/7 creates an intimacy and a bond so it's totally understandable that Damon abandoning her would cut her so deeply. But then take into consideration who is left in her life and it's even more understandable - her father and grandmother are dead, Abby is off being a vampire, Elena is effectively dead until Bonnie dies, Caroline is in Texas with Alaric and the babies, Jeremy is in "art school"/killing vampires, Tyler disappeared a few months ago, Stefan is on the run, and Matt hates everyone now. Who does Bonnie really have besides Damon these days? As shitty as it was when everyone forgot about Bonnie until they needed something magical done, at least they were alive (or undead) and nearby. Now they're either dead dead (as opposed to undead) or hours away. When you think of it that way, it's almost no wonder that she ends up with Enzo.

On a related note, how long before Enzo kills that Alex girl? He looked really mad when she said Bonnie was their #2 priority so I suspect Alex is not long for this earth.

[slayer2]

Plus who will make pancakes for Bonnie now? I kid, I kid. ITA that four months of 24/7 creates an intimacy and a bond so it's totally understandable that Damon abandoning her would cut her so deeply. But then take into consideration who is left in her life and it's even more understandable - her father and grandmother are dead, Abby is off being a vampire, Elena is effectively dead until Bonnie dies, Caroline is in Texas with Alaric and the babies, Jeremy is in "art school"/killing vampires, Tyler disappeared a few months ago, Stefan is on the run, and Matt hates everyone now. Who does Bonnie really have besides Damon these days? As shitty as it was when everyone forgot about Bonnie until they needed something magical done, at least they were alive (or undead) and nearby. Now they're either dead dead (as opposed to undead) or hours away. When you think of it that way, it's almost no wonder that she ends up with Enzo.

On a related note, how long before Enzo kills that Alex girl? He looked really mad when she said Bonnie was their #2 priority so I suspect Alex is not long for this earth.

No shit! A good pancake maker is hard to find. Everybody THINKS they know how but....unless you count that crater that killed Lana Lang's parents ;)

ITA about Damon being the only one left. All her family (aside from Lucy) is dead or undead, Stefan is useless (big surprise there) so Bonnie's all alone now. How ironic that it takes Bonnie being completely isolated from these terrible people to finally have someone fall irrevocably in love with her and vice versa (allegedly).

[Couver]

That's the thing. I totally buy that they got close in their prison world. But again we are told not shown. We never saw them having deep conversations while over there. They both had their freak out moments that we saw and the pancakes but then Damon was gone and Bonnie was with Kai and then alone. The show has done a poor job for me in really defining their bond. VS Bonnie & Elena where you felt how long they had known and cared for each other in that final goodbye scene. Although that could have been because ND was leaving. The only time I ever felt that strong a bond between Damon & Bonnie was when she came back from the prison world and they hugged. Outside of that it has seemed forced. We need to see more actual Bonnie/Damon interactions. Even this season after the 3 amigos bit they didn't interact for ages. 

 

But Bonnie's breakdown can probably be seen as a culmination of all of the horrible things that have happened to her. With Damon leaving being the final straw. 

[slayer2]

That's the thing. I totally buy that they got close in their prison world. But again we are told not shown. We never saw them having deep conversations while over there. They both had their freak out moments that we saw and the pancakes but then Damon was gone and Bonnie was with Kai and then alone. The show has done a poor job for me in really defining their bond. VS Bonnie & Elena where you felt how long they had known and cared for each other in that final goodbye scene. Although that could have been because ND was leaving. The only time I ever felt that strong a bond between Damon & Bonnie was when she came back from the prison world and they hugged. Outside of that it has seemed forced. We need to see more actual Bonnie/Damon interactions. Even this season after the 3 amigos bit they didn't interact for ages.

But Bonnie's breakdown can probably be seen as a culmination of all of the horrible things that have happened to her. With Damon leaving being the final straw.

Mileage varies I guess because I think the show and KG and IS did a pretty good job of showing them bonding in the prison world, right down to the mannerisms and mirroring. I think if anything is forced it's the showrunners desperation to backburn this natural chemistry that has been burgeoning for seasons.

I've seen their chemistry since he first tried to take that ugly medallion from her in season 1 and every scene thereafter.

The hospital scene was a perfect example of this, phone-snatching concern and threats of bodily harm with a little bit of flirting for good measure.

The last time I felt a connection between BonLena was when Elena thought Bonnie died at the Last Dance and they talked via product placement (that scene makes me cry every time).

The Elena leaving scene fell flat for me because of lines like "Let me do this for you." Bish, you're not doing anything! What are you doing? NOT asking Bonnie to kill herself so you can carry on. That's not sacrifice. Gross things like that make me only too happy to watch Damon dessicate himself to protect Bonnie and Stefan while Bonmie declares him her best friend beside a sleeping Elena. Now that IS a sacrifice, however misguided.

[PinkRibbons]

I was thinking over who had a claim to Mystic Falls and my train of thought went, "well, vampires were literally created there. By a Norse witch who also used a doppelganger that just happened to live in the same town which, in fact, was werewolf territory at the time. And there were something like a hundred witches that lived there years later, right? And that was around the same a 20+ colony of vampires were living there relatively peacefully -- I mean, before Katherine showed and ruined everything. Lexi was headed there because she'd heard it was a good town to be a vampire in..." Yeah, Matt -- uh, maybe just because humans populated the town at one time doesn't make it a human town. It may as well be sitting on a hellmouth -- the supernatural will never leave.

[Aeryn13]

 

And while I agree that the Salvatores didn't cause MF to fall into the state it is in now the collateral damage caused by their return to MF can't be ignored. How many innocent people died once Stefan, Damon, Katherine and the Originals came to town?

 

To be fair, Elena was already there and she was the doppelganger back then, sought after by Klaus to use her and by Katherine to use against Klaus. The Salvatores got tangled up in it but it`s not like those other vamps wouldn`t eventually have come and brought carnage with them. Isobel, the master researcher and bio mother, as well as bio-dad were already enough in the loop to cause this. I was so bored with the chanting Travellers, I can`t remember why they picked Mystic Falls now.  

 

So, I get Matt`s general point of "no vamps allowed" but dude, at least get rid of the evil ones first. It`s called strategy.

 

Rayna, I really don`t get. Over in the Originals part of the crossover she took on a room full of vamps, each hundreds of years old. Even an Original would have had some trouble with that. And she acted all Terminator-like. Here, she is back to being somewhat ineffectual at times and more importantly pontificating at her target. Why did she keep Damon alive? Why she did listen to his deal idea? Why did she speak to Stefan?

 

I get that it is because the Salvatores are main characters and have plot armour. But if you give Rayna that exposition and backstory, this explanation doesn`t fly. At least make some shit up. Even some melodramatic, cheesy and repetitive crap like this time Damon happens to be a doppelganger, namely of her vamp love. Have that explain why she always stupidly hesitates and talks to them. Urgh.

 

 

I guess because I think the show and KG and IS did a pretty good job of showing them bonding in the prison world, right down to the mannerisms and mirroring.

 

I agree that they have great chemistry. Though I would say Bonnie`s attachment has been hammered a bit too strongly. But I guess that is in her character. Her attachment to the Gilbert siblings was out of this world. Now she appears to have this transferred to Damon.

 

And I agree that on this show the word "best friend" gets thrown around like it is going out of buisness. At any given time Elena referred to Bonnie, Caroline, Matt or even Stefan as such. Whereas I thought Bonnie was her best friend and the others were her friends or former boyfriends. Meanwhile for Damon I think Alaric was his best friend. Since they hardly share screentime anymore, this has cooled considerably and now for Damon, it is IMO Bonnie. 

 

On the other hand, I don`t think that Bonnie herself ever flanderized the word. IMO she only named Elena as her BFF and people like Caroline or Matt as her friends. So now giving the position to Damon is at least in-keeping it with what the word implies. THE best friend, singular. Not multiple people.    

 

 

but the Bamon relationship has been completely one-sided

 

I would say Damon did make a sacrifice for her in the Season 6 Finale. For how his character operates it was one. When they were watching the vid from Kai, Matt immediately told Bonnie to run because he figured Damon would kill her to have Elena wake up. And yes, the "tactical" move would be to not do so in fear of losing Elena`s love. The "okay, I save Matt and let you die because I know you wish it" moment. But that is not how Damon acts. He would totally go "eh, I`d rather have Elena with me now even if she hates me, I can still work on getting her back then".

 

That he did save Bonnie in the situation was huge for the character. I`m even undecided if he would have saved Stefan in a similar situation. Alaric? Nope, can`t see it. So in terms of his priority list, Bonnie did shoot to a place I never thought anyone or anything in Damon`s life could reach. Higher than immediate-Elena.    

Edited March 4, 2016 by Aeryn13

[grandemocha]

Damn, Damon is a fucking coward. Years go by and he continues to be the absolute worst. But then again, Stefan is the dumb fuck who continues to eagerly give up every single thing and person that makes him happy or fulfilled in service of getting Damon what he wants and when he wants it, so I guess Damon is the real winner in the end. 

 

Did Bonnie and Stefan have lobotomies off screen in between seasons so that they feel some indescribable impulse to do anything and everything for Damon? There's being a good friend and brother, and then there's the situation on TVD where two people spend all of their time doing everything for Damon.

Edited March 4, 2016 by grandemocha

[Primetimer]

She could never bring herself to kill a vampire with such blue, blue eyes.

Read the story

[Jazzy24]

Damn, Damon is a fucking coward. Years go by and he continues to be the absolute worst. But then again, Stefan is the dumb fuck who continues to eagerly give up every single thing and person that makes him happy or fulfilled in service of getting Damon what he wants and when he wants it, so I guess Damon is the real winner in the end.

Did Bonnie and Stefan have lobotomies off screen in between seasons so that they feel some indescribable impulse to do anything and everything for Damon? There's being a good friend and brother, and then there's the situation on TVD where two people spend all of their time doing everything for Damon.

Stefan deserves better. I wish he would die and be free from Damon. Stefan is ugh.

[Argenta]

How convenient that Rayna was killed right next to the campsite of a girl who wears the same clothes and shoe size she does!

I think it's even sillier than that...Rayna was killed in the Strix HQ, but apparently no-one over on The Originals saw fit to try burning/dismembering her corpse, or even to take her freaking sword. Are we supposed to assume someone just randomly dumped her body, plus sword, out in the woods?

[DigitalCount]

I think it's even sillier than that...Rayna was killed in the Strix HQ, but apparently no-one over on The Originals saw fit to try burning/dismembering her corpse, or even to take her freaking sword. Are we supposed to assume someone just randomly dumped her body, plus sword, out in the woods?

HOLY MACKEREL THIS. Why on earth would you not at least bury the sword in concrete in Thailand?

[Kromm]

Liane's piece lost me with the phrase "meet-cute". That bit of nonsense is inherently evil.

That phrase I mean. Who it's typically used to describe is really only SOMETIMES evil.

[Artsda]

How would her reaction be over the top? Her best friend and the person she relies most on this world just told her she would never see him again in a letter. I think her reaction was extraordinarily understated frankly.

Her reaction was pretty ridiculous, this is the same man that's the reason her mother ended up a vampire. That she detested over that, that she was going to leave in a tomb forever. The fact she barely mourned her family members/Elena but is reacting this way over Damon is ridiculous.

 

They can have Bonnie say the words "best friend" over and over it doesn't make it show true, realistic or make sense compared to the past 7 seasons.

[mirrorrim]

I interpreted the "best friend" line as her talking about Elena. I can't remember the line but I'm pretty sure she was saying she's upset that she'd never see Damon and her best friend (Elena) again.

[immortalfrieza]

They sure recycled that plot that they can't kill the hunter because everyone with the hunters scar will die too. It's no different than the reason they couldn't kill Klaus or The Originals because the entire sire line would die with them.

Exactly. This is just another example of TVD writing team's favorite strategy for writing villains making yet another appearance. You see, the writers on this show cannot simply have a believably threatening villain that gets killed off or permanently removed within a few episodes before introducing the next one like half decent writers would do. they MUST come up with some asspull excuse to avoid just ending the villain despite countless opportunities like this one so they can end up being dragged on far past their welcome instead. This has happened to EVERY villain on this show and The Originals that lasts past one episode.

 

Why on earth would you not at least bury the sword in concrete in Thailand?

 

At the very least they have no reason not to take this sword and either destroy it or send it to the bottom of the ocean a long long time ago, she's barely a threat without it, the marks don't appear if she doesn't have the sword and she can't track anyone. The only thing that MIGHT be of use to anybody but the villain is the phoenix stone and it can't trap anybody if the sword is gone. Literally the ONLY person on the show that could possibly have any reason to keep the sword around is this vampire hunter herself, you know, the one EVERYBODY is either trying to get rid of or capture?

 

 

Penny can fuck right off with her victim blaming Matt for letting the vampires take over Mystic Falls. It's not like Stefan, Damon, Elena, and Caroline were the ones destroying the town with violence and eating everyone left and right (haha, I mean, only every once in a while). Mystic Falls was still mostly normal when they were living there. It wasn't until Julian's vampires came into the picture that Mystic Falls turned into a complete disaster, so no, Penny, it's not Matt's fault for not kicking out his two girlfriends and their new boyfriends sooner. Gawd.

 

Matt took Penny's advice way too far. I mean, seriously, you think that Stefan is the problem? He is one of the only people/vampires who wants Mystic Falls to be the peaceful happy place it used to be. How does Matt think he's going to kick all of Julian's vampires out of town? He and Penny are going to kill them one by one? At least Buffy came to understand that not all demons are evil. Aside from Angel (and later Spike), she never would have staked Clem or Oz. Matt has been around the Scoobies long enough to comprehend that they are not the problem and this whole black and white all vampires are bad and must therefore leave town is just stupid.

What she was saying was such an obvious load of crap that at this point I think it's deliberate on Penny's part. It would not surprise me at ALL if it turns out that Penny is part of some Vampire hating murdercult or something and is trying to recruit Matt or something. Still, Matt is definitely an idiot, he literally just explained how humans have no chance against vampires whatsoever (I guess he forgot the magical bad writing fairy that allows humans to own vampires on a regular basis including by Matt himself on both shows or something) so he is threatening to reveal the existence of vampires to the world, which would like cause either OPEN WAR between humans and vampires or mass exploitation of vampires by humans or both. Not to mention the "any one of us could be one of THEM" paranoid that would result and the likely discovery of werewolves and witches in the process resulting in more of the same.

 

The best case scenario is humans realize how incredibly awesome being a vampire in this universe generally is (provided the magical bad writing fairy doesn't show up) and flock to Mystic Falls in droves to have vampires turn them as vampires slowly integrate into society (I know I would try to go get turned in a second, it's hardly a curse from what these shows have shown us). Worst case is Matt is inadvertently responsible for decades if not centuries of war as hundreds of millions of humans, vampires, werewolves, and witches are killed and eventually one species reigns supreme. Most likely scenario is the world at large laughs it off as some kind of a prank.

 

I get the distinct feeling that like usual Matt hasn't thought this through at all, he didn't even have the intelligence to say something like "oh BTW, I already made arrangements that this evidence will get released if somebody kills me" before making this threat. Stefan or one of the less scrupulous vampires could have just killed him and taken the evidence to render his threat moot.

 

Please explain to me how earlier in the episode, Stefan specifically told Damon that he couldn't be near Caroline because that would put Alaric's babies at risk as long as Rayna was alive (even though at that point he knew that Armory had captured her) but then it's perfectly okay for him to drive to Dallas to leave Damon's letter for Alaric and then creep up to the window like a creeper to creepily spy on his girlfriend? Make up your damn mind. Either you ARE putting Caroline and the babies at risk by being near them or you aren't. I mean, seriously, if you're already there, then knock on the door like a normal person and stay for dinner. If Rayna already managed to escape and is tracking you, YOU ARE ALREADY DRAWING HERE THERE.

You would think that at least Stefan would have the decency to knock on the door, explain what happened, then say something to the effect of "until I permanently get rid of this mark I can't risk being near you, so I'm going to travel the world and see if I can find a way to get rid of it, chao" so at least Caroline would understand why he's doing this even if she doesn't like it.

 

 

But I did feel for Stefan and Bonnie. They both clearly wanted Damon to stay and he just abandoned them. I get that Damon believes he is protecting them by doing this because he is still in his wallowing in self pity phase where he thinks he is The Worst and always putting everyone at risk. I know he thinks that they are safer and better off without him around, but how could he look at either of them begging him to stay and just walk away?

It seems ridiculous that he's going to leave Stefan at the mercy of Rayna and do nothing to try to help him. It seems ludicrous that he is fine with never seeing his BFF Alaric again. It seems crazy that after Bonnie gave him that talking to that he just let her go. Is Elena's vagina really that magical that he's willing to wake up in 60 years and not see Stefan, Alaric, or Bonnie ever again? I find it hilariously ironic that in theory this is one of the more selfless things he has done but it ended up being a totally selfish thing because they don't want him to go and he is disregarding their feelings about that.

This IS probably one of the very few times I agree with Damon's reasoning for this, even though it's just a lame excuse for the time skip. He knows that as long as he's around and conscious he's going to be completely miserable without Elena (whether he should be instead of getting an actual life in the meantime is another matter) and because of that keep screwing up and lashing out at the world for petty reasons, all the while requiring his brother and friends to keep sacrificing themselves for his sake, and otherwise deliberately or not keep ruining their lives, so he took himself out of the equation. If anything, it shows a much much greater amount of self awareness and forward thinking than he normally displays.

 

Regardless, it's also smart of him for another reason that wasn't mentioned, even with Elena around Damon was hardly the paragon of thinking ahead nor of self control.  BFFs or not there's no chance in hell that Damon wouldn't get Bonnie killed trying to protect him or just snap and kill her himself at some point in those 60 years.

Edited March 5, 2016 by immortalfrieza

[GaT]

OF COURSE there's a reason they can't just kill Rayna, it wouldn't be TVD without a stupid plot twist like that. I guess Stefan is the new Elena, all must be sacrificed just to keep him alive.

[DigitalCount]

In addition to Klaus/Originals, there's also Kai, who as the leader of the Gemini Coven was unkillable due to the rest of the Geminis (let's be honest, Liv and Jo) being tied to his life. And technically, there was also Joshua before him. And Evilaric couldn't kill Elena for the same reason...wow, they really like that particular plot element.

 

Wasn't a fan of Damon saying Rayna looks exactly like Elena. She doesn't look exactly like her, she just strongly resembles her. It wouldn't be an issue if not for the whole doppel thing that dominated, oh, let's say, the entire show up until S5.

 

This also feels a bit fast to be heading into the future for good already. Is S7 the final season for sure?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

 

Scene:

[RachelKM]

But for the last several episodes the show through multiple characters hammered home the point - to Damon himself and to the viewers in general - that apparently he is the worst, he is putting everyone in danger and it would be so much better if he was gonna take himself out. Basically, they have been building up the story to the point that this is the decision Damon SHOULD make.

 

Then in this episode they play it as if it is the completely wrong decision. Seriously, what do you wanna say, show? What? Build-up and conclusion should have a consistent throughline. This storyline is all over the place. I really have no idea what the underlying point is and what the character was supposed to do? 

This confused me too.  I guess you could make the argument that maybe he should have done it sooner, before everyone fucked up their lives for him.  But the theme of the season has been that Damon, at least Elena-less Damon, is an albatross who will endlessly cause disasters that the people who love him have to put themselves on the line to clean up.  Particularly as to Stefan, the theme is that Damon has always been the problem for him and he'll never live his own life with him alive. Setting aside the fact that this appears to retcon the retcon of Damon always wanting a relationship with Stefan and sacrificing their relationship for Stefan's good (a period that, as much as I enjoy Damon generally, I refer to a 100 years a woobie)* and the fact that the initial mess this season was initiated by Stefan and Caroline, this seems to be the message most the season and hit HARD since the phoenix stone bullshit. 

 

And then in this episode, they framed his decision to remove himself and his destructive tendencies as an abandonment.  I found that a bit jarring.  Which is it?  Is Damon a cross to bear or a necessary brother and best friend?

 

 

*Seriously, they redesign the dynamics of the Salvatore brothers to fit whatever arc they want to write in a particular season without regard to what's already been shown. Does Damon want to make Stefan suffer forever?  Is he the brother that walked away when Lexi said he needed to let Stefan be better?  Did Stefan need his brother?  Did he need to be away from him? Ugh... I can't even keep track of the changes.

[slayer2]

Her reaction was pretty ridiculous, this is the same man that's the reason her mother ended up a vampire. That she detested over that, that she was going to leave in a tomb forever. The fact she barely mourned her family members/Elena but is reacting this way over Damon is ridiculous.

They can have Bonnie say the words "best friend" over and over it doesn't make it show true, realistic or make sense compared to the past 7 seasons.

This argument works if you skipped over all of season 6 and 7 and the shitty way Elena has treated her since the Originals showed up.

I interpreted the "best friend" line as her talking about Elena. I can't remember the line but I'm pretty sure she was saying she's upset that she'd never see Damon and her best friend (Elena) again.

No, she meant Damon. I don't know why this is coming out of left field for people, it's been canon since last season. Elena even referred to Bonnie and Damon as best friends last season when they were acting like best friends do, plotting together, drinking together and watching the Bodyguard while trapped together.

He was the one that instigated her escape, not Elena and he's also the one that brought her back from the dead. Elena hasn't done a best friend-y thing since she was human and I'm pretty certain they haven't been super close since Elena tried to eat her.

Edited March 6, 2016 by slayer2

[slayer2]

OF COURSE there's a reason they can't just kill Rayna, it wouldn't be TVD without a stupid plot twist like that. I guess Stefan is the new Elena, all must be sacrificed just to keep him alive.

Ironically The Originals just untied Klaus to all his sire bonded vamps apparently, courtesy of Davina (thank you) Nice try show, it's like throwing away the paper after you cheat on a test. We still see it sitting there in the garbage.

Edited March 6, 2016 by slayer2

[Terrafamilia]

So, do all the vamps in Mystic Falls have daylight rings? Seems like you can get those things in vending machines now.

[miss-vanilla]

This confused me too.  I guess you could make the argument that maybe he should have done it sooner, before everyone fucked up their lives for him.  But the theme of the season has been that Damon, at least Elena-less Damon, is an albatross who will endlessly cause disasters that the people who love him have to put themselves on the line to clean up.  Particularly as to Stefan, the theme is that Damon has always been the problem for him and he'll never live his own life with him alive. Setting aside the fact that this appears to retcon the retcon of Damon always wanting a relationship with Stefan and sacrificing their relationship for Stefan's good (a period that, as much as I enjoy Damon generally, I refer to a 100 years a woobie)* and the fact that the initial mess this season was initiated by Stefan and Caroline, this seems to be the message most the season and hit HARD since the phoenix stone bullshit. 

 

And then in this episode, they framed his decision to remove himself and his destructive tendencies as an abandonment.  I found that a bit jarring.  Which is it?  Is Damon a cross to bear or a necessary brother and best friend?

 

 

*Seriously, they redesign the dynamics of the Salvatore brothers to fit whatever arc they want to write in a particular season without regard to what's already been shown. Does Damon want to make Stefan suffer forever?  Is he the brother that walked away when Lexi said he needed to let Stefan be better?  Did Stefan need his brother?  Did he need to be away from him? Ugh... I can't even keep track of the changes.

The whole Defan arc is confusing, and I have been saying for weeks that Stefan's phoenix stone hell was a nonesense. Like Aeryn said, I'm not sure what i'm supposed to feel about Damon and the decision he made, and that is an anomaly for me since I can usually see the trajectory and sense in his motivations.

Damon's actions and feelings regarding Lily made complete sense to me.

Damon shelving his revenge against Lily to help Stefan kill Julian made sense to me.

In fact all Damon's actions leading up to his hell stone experience were totally in character IMO, and since then I have been at a loss.

Stefan's about turn this episode was jarring. Stefan did not sacrifice anything for Damon, he prevented Damon from sacrificing himself and got marked in the process. He did this because he cannot let Damon go, ever, but will persist in beating Damon over the head with that every chance he gets and then wonders why Damon wants to walk away. 

 

As far as I can tell, Stefan's love for Damon is toxic and destructive to himself and Damon, but it is Stefan's problem. Stefan will stop at nothing, and will give up everything for Damon because Damon is who Stefan needs, and it started back in 1864 when he forced Damon to turn. On the surface this appears noble and good, but when those sacrifices are used to beat guilt into the other into submission it becomes problematic.

For example, Stefan told Damon in 7x11 that he was selfish, manipulative and reckless, after telling him that his phoenix stone hell lesson was that he needed to get rid of Damon from his life in order for him to lead a happy one, then proceeded to tell Damon that regardless he was not "giving up on him"

What a crock? Stefan keeps Damon in his life because HE needs him, but not before making sure Damon knows how much Stefan is sacrificing for him first.

Just wow! Elena realised this about Stefan in S3, just as Caroline has now in S7, Stefan will always put Damon first. This is not Damon's fault, it is Stefan's issue.

Just as it is Damon's issue that Elena comes first, and it is Bonnie's issue that she puts Damon first. 

However the narrative blames Damon, in the form of Tyler, Val, Enzo, Lily and every other two bit character that thinks they have a front row seat into Damon's psyche, when in reality, he has no control over what lengths others will go to to save him. Much like Elena in previous seasons tbh, but her "bad" decisions were never painted in this light, and she was never called selfish in the narrative.

 

I love how Tyler gets to make Damon feel like shit, after his terrible decisions resulted in carnage despite his good intentions. Remember the hybrids Tyler, and your Mom? It's a harsh critique, I know, but it's true. Tyler lost everyone he loved because of the decisions he made, yet he gets to lecture Damon?

Caroline turned off her humanity because she couldn't deal with her Mom's death and killed several people, and almost killed Tyler, Matt and Sarah Salvatore, but no problem, it's barely mentioned again and certainly not this season, but Damon isn't allowed to grieve the loss of Elena? because that makes him do terrible things like refuse to forgive his mother several lifetimes of hurt? like wanting to keep Elena's coffin safe? Just back up a second here show, didn't Alaric literally keep his dead wife on ice for months while he sought to raise her from the dead? Didn't he do everything despite the warnings that the stone was evil to get Bonnie to bring Jo back? Did Ric care about the consequences to Jo, himself or Bonnie? NO. Isn't Ric the whole reason this Phoenix stone is in play this season?

 

I have no problem people calling Damon out on his shit, but when it comes from a place of sheer hypocrisy and plot amnesia, I roll my damn eyes.

 

I have one positive to say, and that is when Penny questioned Matt's dubious morality when it comes to vampires and Stefan in particular. Matt could not actually articulate why he views Stefan as "better" than Damon or any other vampire. It's complicated is just another word for I'm biased, because Damon killed my sister and Stefan didn't, so it's all relative in terms of how the vamps affect the individual. Matt doesn't give a shit that Stefan killed half of America on his sojourn with Klaus, or that he has killed without remorse "humans" quite recently, because Stefan didn't kill Vikki. (when technically he did end her life for real).

Damon turned Vikki, but back then Damon viewed Vampirism as a better alternative for Vikki than her miserable human existence, and because he was bored, lol, but Damon did not see turning Vikki as a tragedy. If he wanted her dead, he could have ended her life at any time and thought no more about it.

 

The rest of this episode was just contrived idiocy to get Damon in the coffin. The hunt for the herbs was just boring, and the contrived plot device that Val's siphoning powers were not able to save Stefan was just another eyeroll worthy moment, because Damon needed to fail. Even though Kai could use siphoning powers to remove the magic from vampires, werewolf bites and and the traveler spells when the plot decided it's so. Either these witchy-vamps can siphon magic or they can't, which is it show?

 

The Bonnie/Damon scene was very well acted, especially by KG, she managed to make a mediocre dialogue look like Shakespeare, even if it was a tad hyperbolic. Damon/Ian just looked shell-shocked which if that is what they were going for it worked. I will say it again, that girl is in love, hence the hyperbolic speech, and what I feared for her character has come to pass. Bonnie has been hurt emotionally by Damon (unintentionally), because when push comes to shove he will choose himself and his relationship with Elena over her. Damon has evolved, and he does genuinely care for others besides Elena, but ultimately he said it all in his letter to Ric. He gave it a shot for Elena, Stefan, Ric and Bonnie, but the cumulative events recently have pushed him into caving in to what his heart desired most, and who the hell can blame him?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As far as I can tell, Stefan's love for Damon is toxic and destructive to himself and Damon, but it is Stefan's problem. Stefan will stop at nothing, and will give up everything for Damon because Damon is who Stefan needs, and it started back in 1864 when he forced Damon to turn. On the surface this appears noble and good, but when those sacrifices are used to beat guilt into the other into submission it becomes problematic.

Also worth noting: substitute Damon for Stefan and Elena for Damon in the first two sentences and you have the plot for TVD S2-S6. Remember his speech to Elena about how he will always choose her and put her first no matter who else has to die in the process?

[Couver]

So, do all the vamps in Mystic Falls have daylight rings? Seems like you can get those things in vending machines now.

 

This didn't even register for me but you are right. Julian's entire gang seemed to be able to walk in daylight. My only guess is that he had Mary Louise or Beau make rings for all of them.

 

Daylight rings are so prevalent on this show and The Originals that, like others have said, there is no down side to being a vampire in this universe. None of them deal with the few minor disadvantages being a vamp brings with it.

[miss-vanilla]

Also worth noting: substitute Damon for Stefan and Elena for Damon in the first two sentences and you have the plot for TVD S2-S6. Remember his speech to Elena about how he will always choose her and put her first no matter who else has to die in the process?

Yes true, and add in the fact that that Elena was equally as dependent on Damon and voila, we have the triangle of toxic dependency. Everyone assumed Elena was the central point of the triangle, when in fact it was/is Damon. When it came down to it, neither Elena or Stefan could function without him. Contrast that with Stefan who did manage to go on without Elena, and Damon, it would appear could go on without Stefan.

Delena is/was problematic in that regard, but the narrative this season is just unearned, since Damon's actions and reactions wrt Elena are for once understandable and relateable in comparison to say what Ric did for example..But we don't see the corresponding hyperbolic dialogue to balance that, in the same way it is written for Damon.

Like I said above, Caroline did an extreme thing, she chose to turn off her humanity. Every other example of this has been shown to be not the persons actual choice, ie; Klaus forced Stefan to off his humanity,

Damon used the SB to turn off Elena's humanity.

Caroline forced Stefan to turn off his humanity.Consequences = "crickets."

Yet everything Damon does is scrutinized, analysed, judged and consequenced, literally by everyone on the show, even though he chose to keep his humanity on, when a lesser person/vamp would have shut that kind of pain away. Damon gets zero passes in the narrative, he isn't allowed the luxury of flipping the switch, when others are. Damon is held accountable for his actions when others are given a get out of jail free card.

Damon doesn't. Not after Katherine both in 1864 and present day, not after 5 yrs of torture, not after Stefan dies and not now even after losing his "life" (Elena). Damon has only switched off his humanity once, and that was to save his own life, because the "real" Damon could not bring himself to leave his friend to die, and he kept that switch dialed firmly in the "off" position for a very long time.

[Cattitude]

I liked that episode and I understand Damon's motivation through what he told Ric. Damon has always and will always choose Elena first. Trying to live his life without her was hell for him. He wasn't happy. He did try b/c Elena wanted him to but after he knew what real happiness was for him, he didn't want to be without it. It was also mirrored in Caroline's choice. She may love Stefan but she loves having the "perfect" pretend human life more and in the end chose it.

 

People who got screwed were Bonnie and Stefan b/c they aren't living their lives for THEMSELVES and that is sad. Bonnie needs to quit latching on to other people's dreams and goals and live for herself. I don't think she has ever examined what SHE really wants and looks like she did it again moving from Damon to latching on to Enzo.

Stefan is a total mess. He has always used Damon as his whipping boy to make himself feel like a better person. When he doesn't have Damon then he has to face all sides of himself. I have never understood this notion that Damon is a bad brother for leaving Stefan. Most of their lives they have been estranged so I don't know why Stefan is so upset now. When pushed in a corner Stefan always goes for pretending to not be a vampire and live a pretend human life. Maybe this time if Stefan would finally accept he is a vampire and try to live a vampire life he might be happier. I'm no Stefan fan but I felt he was the most screwed in the end but I didn't feel it was anyone's fault but his own.

 

I can't even get into the Matt and Penny stuff b/c it was so anger producing I just wish they'd get killed off at this point.

 

Damon probably is Bonnie's best friend and she is def in love with him, but Bonnie is not Damon's best friend Alaric is, he chose to tell Alaric the truth and left him a gift along with the letter. He does care about Bonnie but she is way down his list.

 

I know in the FF the Hunter said she shot Damon with werewolf venom, I wonder if somehow they will find a way around the linking spell and that is why Damon wants to take the Hunter's mark from Stefan. If they can wake Elena up he could take the cure and become human thus making the werewolf venom and the mark useless.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Cattitude

[LeafontheWind]

Word to both your posts, miss-vanilla! I wish I could like them more than once!

I have always been a Damon fan, and I do realize that this colors my perception of what happens on the screen, but Stefan's constant blaming and whining has really started to grate on me these last few seasons. I know that the show is trying to have it both ways as far as Damon is concerned. They need him to be both a villain and a viable romantic lead and they are obviously not walking that line very gracefully. I am not even sure there is a right way to do what they want with his character, but I wish they could stop with the good brother/bad brother dichotomy. Every time Stefan talks about how terrible his brother is, I have to roll my eyes.

To me, it feels like Stefan's bad behavior is always excused for various reasons (he was compelled, he was in his ripper state, he did it to save Damon, etc.), but Damon is always told repeatedly how terrible he is and how much he deserves to be abandoned and/or punished. Maybe with this three year time jump, and Damon's offer to make the mark switching sacrifice for Stefan, the relationship between the Salvatore brothers will finally evolve. That is the relationship I am most invested in and it is the only one I really want to see work out in the end.

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

Yet everything Damon does is scrutinized, analysed, judged and consequenced, literally by everyone on the show, even though he chose to keep his humanity on, when a lesser person/vamp would have shut that kind of pain away. Damon gets zero passes in the narrative, he isn't allowed the luxury of flipping the switch, when others are. Damon is held accountable for his actions when others are given a get out of jail free card.

 

To me, it feels like Stefan's bad behavior is always excused for various reasons (he was compelled, he was in his ripper state, he did it to save Damon, etc.), but Damon is always told repeatedly how terrible he is and how much he deserves to be abandoned and/or punished.

 

Damon is held accountable? I'm sorry but that is hilarious to me! Name me one shitty thing Damon has done on this show where he has to face lasting consequences? He kills Jeremy, and sure people were "pissed" at him for awhile, but they got over it like it was nothing. A couple of seasons ago he went on a killing binge all because "Elena" dumped him. Lasting consequences...*crickets* Damon is given pass after pass after pass...

 

Yes, the show has the narrative that Stefan is the good brother and Damon is the screw-up. People yell at Damon etc. etc but really it's just a bunch of hot air because he's usually forgiven with very little effort on his part. So, no, I'm not buying this "Poor Damon" is the whipping boy of the show stuff. This show has bent over backwards to make sure Damon never loses anything. Even with ND leaving the show they've managed sure to preserve it so Damon gets his happily ever after with Elena. Boo-hoo he has to spend 60 years without her. To a vampire that's nothing. I'm sure that while Bonnie and Stefan are mad at Damon right now all will be forgiven with a pithy comment from Damon and some supposedly grand sacrifice on his part.

[LeafontheWind]

I can't name one shitty thing any of them has done that has had lasting consequences. Therein lies the problem. The point I am trying to make is that no one is ever truly held accountable for what they do. Everyone has their bad behaviors excused because otherwise how would we be able to root for these characters? But the only person who is repeatedly told he is bad or wrong is Damon. That is where the narrative falls apart. Why should one brother be the "bad" one when both are equally guilty of killing innocent people?

[slayer2]

I liked that episode and I understand Damon's motivation through what he told Ric. Damon has always and will always choose Elena first. Trying to live his life without her was hell for him. He wasn't happy. He did try b/c Elena wanted him to but after he knew what real happiness was for him, he didn't want to be without it. It was also mirrored in Caroline's choice. She may love Stefan but she loves having the "perfect" pretend human life more and in the end chose it.

People who got screwed were Bonnie and Stefan b/c they aren't living their lives for THEMSELVES and that is sad. Bonnie needs to quit latching on to other people's dreams and goals and live for herself. I don't think she has ever examined what SHE really wants and looks like she did it again moving from Damon to latching on to Enzo.

Stefan is a total mess. He has always used Damon as his whipping boy to make himself feel like a better person. When he doesn't have Damon then he has to face all sides of himself. I have never understood this notion that Damon is a bad brother for leaving Stefan. Most of their lives they have been estranged so I don't know why Stefan is so upset now. When pushed in a corner Stefan always goes for pretending to not be a vampire and live a pretend human life. Maybe this time if Stefan would finally accept he is a vampire and try to live a vampire life he might be happier. I'm no Stefan fan but I felt he was the most screwed in the end but I didn't feel it was anyone's fault but his own.

I can't even get into the Matt and Penny stuff b/c it was so anger producing I just wish they'd get killed off at this point.

Damon probably is Bonnie's best friend and she is def in love with him, but Bonnie is not Damon's best friend Alaric is, he chose to tell Alaric the truth and left him a gift along with the letter. He does care about Bonnie but she is way down his list.

I know in the FF the Hunter said she shot Damon with werewolf venom, I wonder if somehow they will find a way around the linking spell and that is why Damon wants to take the Hunter's mark from Stefan. If they can wake Elena up he could take the cure and become human thus making the werewolf venom and the mark useless.

He wasn't telling Alaric the truth in the letter he was lying as evidenced by the previous episode. He already said why he choose to dessicate when he told an unconscious Bonnie that he would no longer risk her or Stefan dying for him. He wants her to live out her life without the interference of him or his perceived drama and Stefan the same.

This has got very little to do with impatience for Elena, this is a guy who searched for 60+years for Katherine. Patience is his strong suit. He made the choice he made because he believes it protects them and he lead them to believe it was for other reasons so they wouldn't try to stop him.

Just as an aside, Alaric and him haven't been best friends in quite some time and any strong bond they had probably cooled when Damon compelled him (when Alaric was being a douche). On second thought, when is Alaric not being a douche? Poor Caroline. As far as I can see he wrote that out to Alaric because of the 3 of them Alaric, Bonnie, Stefan, Alaric is the only one who wouldn't question it, the other two would know something was up. Alaric is the sort that (much like Damon) falls in love and fuck the world. He's got his kids and Caroline so Damon could have written "I'm off to learn how to squirt rainbows out my ass" and Alaric probably would have had the same reaction.

Misdirection (of the characters) is also the reason they had Damon walk away when Stefan said "If you ever cared about me." Of course Damon cares about him, up until this season you could unequivocally say more than anybody else on the show but he chose to walk away when Stefan said that to reinforce the "selfish, douchebag Damon" trope so they would let him go ahead with his stupid plan. Damon knows if he told them the truth they would call him crazy and probably talk him out of it. This is Damon doing something he believes is truly unselfish for the first time.

ETA Also a guy who would always choose Elena wouldn't have told Bonnie to leave the Armoury (sp?) with the full expectation that Tyler would gobble him up, there's no way to see Elena again when you're dead.

That's not putting Elena first that's putting Bonnie first, even above himself. We all know Elena would get over it if Bonnie had died, she'd get over anyone dying except her precious obsession, Damon.

Similarly a guy who would always choose Elena wouldn't be sitting by Bonnie's bedside praying for her to wake up and chastising her for scaring him. Especially when her death meant the return of his beloved and it was clear he's done all he could tontry to save her. What Damon wrote to Alaric and what's actually motivating Damon are two completely different things.

He reminds a bit of Tristan from Legends of the Fall. "He was the rock they broke themselves against." I can understand his decision.

Edited March 6, 2016 by slayer2

[miss-vanilla]

He wasn't telling Alaric the truth in the letter he was lying as evidenced by the previous episode. He already said why he choose to dessicate when he told an unconscious Bonnie that he would no longer risk her or Stefan dying for him. He wants her to live out her life without the interference of him or his perceived drama and Stefan the same.

 

i don't think he was lying to Ric, I think he was telling the truth as he see's it.  Damon's actions are cumulative of everything that has happened to him lately and the people around him.

 

 

This has got very little to do with impatience for Elena, this is a guy who searched for 60+years for Katherine. Patience is his strong suit. He made the choice he made because he believes it protects them and he lead them to believe it was for other reasons so they wouldn't try to stop him.

 

Well yes, he is still planning on waiting for Elena, that hasn't changed, neither has his choice to protect Bonnie despite the fact that Damon could have Elena back right now if she died. Damon is determined to ensure that he is still worthy of her when she returns, and right now he thinks that Bonnie will end up dead because of him, and Stefan will stop sacrificing things for him if he is gone.

This is what the show has been hammering into his head all season long and couple that with his deep misery and longing for Elena that hasn't dissipated and voila!

 

Him waiting for Katherine was a different thing altogether, he was delusional about her, she never loved him and promised him nothing really except an eternal life, he was a different guy back then.

It was sad to hear Damon voice to Ric that he hadn't known what true happiness was until he was with Elena, he is 170 yrs old and had never felt that sense of fulfillment that he got from those few short months he had with her. 

 

 

 

Misdirection (of the characters) is also the reason they had Damon walk away when Stefan said "If you ever cared about me." Of course Damon cares about him, up until this season you could unequivocally say more than anybody else on the show but he chose to walk away when Stefan said that to reinforce the "selfish, douchebag Damon" trope so they would let him go ahead with his stupid plan. Damon knows if he told them the truth they would call him crazy and probably talk him out of it. This is Damon doing something he believes is truly unselfish for the first time.

ETA Also a guy who would always choose Elena wouldn't have told Bonnie to leave the Armoury (sp?) with the full expectation that Tyler would gobble him up, there's no way to see Elena again when you're dead.

That's not putting Elena first that's putting Bonnie first, even above himself. We all know Elena would get over it if Bonnie had died, she'd get over anyone dying except her precious obsession, Damon.

I think there is some truth in that. He definitely didn't want to be talked out of it, and Damon is always ready to be hated for the choices he makes when he is trying to keep his loved ones alive.

Bonnie made an emotional attempt to sway Damon, but he was having none of it, just like with Stefan. However, I still believe that there was truth in his letter to Ric. He knows that Ric will let him go without a fight, he helped Elena let Damon go once, remember, because he saw first hand how she was destroyed by Damon's death. He understands Damon and what drives him, because he has similar traits.

 

I think reducing Damons actions regarding saving Bonnie to a simplistic notion that he is choosing Bonnie over Elena is reductive and doesn't take into account the complexity of how Damon feels about those who he views as his friends. This isn't a choice of either/or, but a way to keep both Bonnie and Elena in his life, Damon is a far more layered character than that.

Edited March 6, 2016 by miss-vanilla

[miss-vanilla]

I can't name one shitty thing any of them has done that has had lasting consequences. Therein lies the problem. The point I am trying to make is that no one is ever truly held accountable for what they do. Everyone has their bad behaviors excused because otherwise how would we be able to root for these characters? But the only person who is repeatedly told he is bad or wrong is Damon. That is where the narrative falls apart. Why should one brother be the "bad" one when both are equally guilty of killing innocent people?

ITA. This has been the most frustrating thing for me this season especially. We are in S7 now guys, move on.

[Cattitude]

He wasn't telling Alaric the truth in the letter he was lying as evidenced by the previous episode. He already said why he choose to dessicate when he told an unconscious Bonnie that he would no longer risk her or Stefan dying for him. He wants her to live out her life without the interference of him or his perceived drama and Stefan the same.

This has got very little to do with impatience for Elena, this is a guy who searched for 60+years for Katherine. Patience is his strong suit. He made the choice he made because he believes it protects them and he lead them to believe it was for other reasons so they wouldn't try to stop him.

Just as an aside, Alaric and him haven't been best friends in quite some time and any strong bond they had probably cooled when Damon compelled him (when Alaric was being a douche). On second thought, when is Alaric not being a douche? Poor Caroline. As far as I can see he wrote that out to Alaric because of the 3 of them Alaric, Bonnie, Stefan, Alaric is the only one who wouldn't question it, the other two would know something was up. Alaric is the sort that (much like Damon) falls in love and fuck the world. He's got his kids and Caroline so Damon could have written "I'm off to learn how to squirt rainbows out my ass" and Alaric probably would have had the same reaction.

Misdirection (of the characters) is also the reason they had Damon walk away when Stefan said "If you ever cared about me." Of course Damon cares about him, up until this season you could unequivocally say more than anybody else on the show but he chose to walk away when Stefan said that to reinforce the "selfish, douchebag Damon" trope so they would let him go ahead with his stupid plan. Damon knows if he told them the truth they would call him crazy and probably talk him out of it. This is Damon doing something he believes is truly unselfish for the first time.

ETA Also a guy who would always choose Elena wouldn't have told Bonnie to leave the Armoury (sp?) with the full expectation that Tyler would gobble him up, there's no way to see Elena again when you're dead.

That's not putting Elena first that's putting Bonnie first, even above himself. We all know Elena would get over it if Bonnie had died, she'd get over anyone dying except her precious obsession, Damon.

Similarly a guy who would always choose Elena wouldn't be sitting by Bonnie's bedside praying for her to wake up and chastising her for scaring him. Especially when her death meant the return of his beloved and it was clear he's done all he could tontry to save her. What Damon wrote to Alaric and what's actually motivating Damon are two completely different things.

He reminds a bit of Tristan from Legends of the Fall. "He was the rock they broke themselves against." I can understand his decision.

Taking my response to the Damon thread.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Sure, Rayna Lives To Kill On The Vampire Diaries, But That Doesn't Make Her Bad
She could never bring herself to kill a vampire with such blue, blue eyes.

[mirrorrim]

Daylight rings are so prevalent on this show and The Originals that, like others have said, there is no down side to being a vampire in this universe. None of them deal with the few minor disadvantages being a vamp brings with it.

 

Hah! So true. Remember the part in this episode where Matt threatens Damon with video footage of his misdeeds? I was like 'Wah? Since when has ANYone worried about being caught doing vampire things? They routinely leave bloody bodies everywhere that have massive neck wounds or hearts missing and the public has never been curious about what's going on.

[Hiddenpick]

I'm trying hard to understand how the Heretics, Lily and Julian is ultimately related to where we are now. I'm puzzled about the story and therefore unsure about the mission or course of this season. Maybe it's not for me to understand. Maybe my brain is too addled what with trying to piece together the what, why and how of stuff going down. Gotta own that, I guess. I'm thinking though that maybe the series (this season anyway) would be better served in a Telenovo format. Because after fifteen episodes and a three year time jump, the story has boiled down to something that's been incandescently clear from the second episode of this series--Stefan and Damon Salvatore have a complicated relationship. 

 

This isn't new or news. Seems there could have been a different path for these brothers this time around. The manner in which this story is told creates no tension and has no compelling element or essential conflict. It is what it's always been and getting to that all too familiar place encounters too many plot holes, too many unnecessary twists. I love complexity, on the other hand convoluted is wasteful. Moreover, even if I can't get the plot of my dreams, you oughta gimme something reel--yes reel, gimme characters that make me care about them.

 

Ahhh, Penny, brown Penny, I'm duped in the loops of your gooey brown hair--rapped no doubt by Matty Ice D to his dreadful Penny. Matt found his mojo after listening to Penny prattle on about vampires and their deeds; a tale that Matt was well aware of for years. Matt, a character as useless as tits on a bull, blackmails Stefan into leaving "his" town--a town that Stefan has lived in way before Matt was a speckle of useless DNA. Say whaaa?? Exposing the goings on in MF on YT? TMZ? Srsly?? Folks nowadays laud bigoted presidential candidates.

And yet, even after this outrageous demand, Stefan somehow trusts Matt enough to meet him only to be bested, captured and tied up by Rayna.

 

Enzo and the Armory is what now? The new Big bad? And they (as an entity) want Rayna--a character whom we have been told looks like Damon's sleeping beauty of a girlfriend; a vampire slayer who doesn't kill vampires--unless they are marked and a slayer who apparently (like Buffy) loved a vampire.

 

Damon and Stefan were both bestowed with foolish and unnecessary behavior and equally unbelievable dialogue. They are both made to appear self-involved and directionless. Their depicted actions were non-flattering and quite sad. And so, if I had to elect the character this title related to it would not be either brother.

"I Would for you" is the story of Bonnie Bennett. She has and will do anything for her friends, including Damon whom she has forged a unique relationship with. I have always liked this pair--romantically, and I am fully aware that that won't ever be; that they chose not to go there though and developed this horrid Steroline instead, is well...I digress. Damon and Bonnie is the most important and developed relationship appearing right now. Damon and Enzo's relationship is absurd. His relationship with Alaric is laughable, even with the apocryphal  booze and letter, and yes, place my name in the column that believes that suicide (as it pertains to fictional characters--specifically Damon in this excerpt) is neither brave nor noble. Citing the need to protect your friend and family from dangerous and disruptive liaisons because of who you are is weak and unbecoming. Bonnie and Stefan's encounter with danger will happen in spite of Damon's so-called sacrifice, not because of him. The need for drama aside, being in a coffin won't solve a thing; what it will do instead is solidify my thoughts that the character is a petulant, whiny, self-serving narcissist. He is neither complex nor deep. How does one work on being worthy of sacrifice in a coffin? Further, Damon has never been down with people making sacrifices for him. He has not only shown his abhorrence for the gesture, he has said it. BTW, that the writers chose to have Stefan recite the 'after I've made the sacrifices for you' speech is both contemptible and egregious. WTH?

 

"This hurts me". You and me Bonnie, you and me...

 

 

 

[slayer2]

I imagine the actors have given up just as much as Damon has since they don't even bother social media instructing people to watch the show anymore. Neither KG nor IS tweeted about this episode, Plec is over there tweeting to herself while IS is off saving animals and KG is at a anti-violence against women convention, god knows where PW is, but CK is probably trapped in a breast-feeding haze whilst Dries and Young skip gleefully away. That's what happens when you write for yourself and your post-pubescent fantasies and prejudices I guess.

Edited March 8, 2016 by slayer2

[steelyis]

I imagine the actors have given up just as much as Damon has since they don't even bother social media instructing people to watch the show anymore. Neither KG nor IS tweeted about this episode...

 

It's a shame because KG's acting in that final scene is amazing.

[Hiddenpick]

I imagine the actors have given up just as much as Damon has since they don't even bother social media instructing people to watch the show anymore. Neither KG nor IS tweeted about this episode, Plec is over there tweeting to herself while IS is off saving animals and KG is at a anti-violence against women convention, god knows where PW is, but CK is probably trapped in a breast-feeding haze whilst Dries and Young skip gleefully away. That's what happens when you write for yourself and your post-pubescent fantasies and prejudices I guess

THIS!! This and this again. I especially love (and absolutely agree with) the words bold-ed. I'm laughing at the visuals--you know the breast feeding haze ( no doubt to prevent engorgement) and the gleeful skipping. Tra-la-la, La-lah...

[blixie]

 

Daylight rings are so prevalent on this show and The Originals that,

 

I agree they became too prevalent, I blame Plec, and her hatred of Bonnie (and thus Witch mythos). When the show started daylight rings were *rare* and Witches weren't the personal bitches of vampires, they were the antagonists of Vampire's. One of the reasons I've loved the Originals better is it reinstilled the idea that Witches are actually more powerful than Vampires, even Original vampires , a witch magic CREATED vampires and thus could destroy them in snap too. On TVD meanwhile witches were shown to be "owned" by vampires, how many times have we had to hear "my witch" "I have a witch" it's so gross. It's even still rears it's head on TO.

 

I actually like the shift in narrative from the Heretics to Rayna (I hope never to hear of Mary Louise and Nora ever ever again) but I still give zero fucks about Valerie, and if we were going to keep a heretic I wish it had been Oscar or Julian, but I get it she has a connection to Stefan.

 

But this whole show revolving around Damon SUCKS, and trying to sell me on how Bonnie his best friend that he can't bear harming? GTFO, his treatment of her is routinely disgusting (though I think Ian and Kat have a great chemistry Plec pisses all over every chance she gets) stahp. I'm still confused when she hooked up with Enzo, but all that's important is that we're caught up on DAMON's timeline, we still don't really know what how the characters who are not Damon are doing.

 

I'm only in this show to watch Bonnie, Matt, and Stefan. I thought the writing for Matt was contrived bullshit, with his motivation coming from some bint who as he said himself doesn't know SHIT about what happened in that town, but I loved his scene with Stefan, Stefan IS his friend, but at some point he has to look at what being friends with vampires has cost him: everything basically, and no matter how much he knows Stefan is not evil, that doesn't mean he wants or needs this in his life anymore, It's a valid choice! And I was glad to find that he was only "helping" Rayna due to some form of blackmail.