S02.E09: The Good Shepherd

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Liza pursues an author she likes because of his minimalist manifesto.

[kirinan]

I would hate to live in Darren Star's head. That's the only thing I can say about this episode.

Edited March 3, 2016 by kirinan

[HunterHunted]

Kelsey's friends are so sheisty. None of them likes Thad, but none of them has said a word against him? I find that hard to believe because he's so terrible. There must have been some point when he was being very Thad that they could have dropped a couple of hints that he sucks. And then to get Liza to start the engine of that bus that they later threw her under. Jerks.

Really Darren Star?!? Did you really have to make Matthew Morrison's character into a sheep fucker? Like they couldn't have come up something else that would have made him also unpalatable. Perhaps he feeds Liza and then Liza later learns that he uses his poop in his manure for the crops that he grows that he fed to her.

Edited March 6, 2016 by HunterHunted

[gpgurl50]

So, they have people banging sheep on TVLand now.  How interesting.

 

I like Kelsey's friends have kind of become part of the normal etiquette now.  There's the thing of "Well, if they do get married and you said all this stuff, then maybe they'll never speak to you again."  They really through Liza under the bus though.  It was their chance to really commit.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know I need to have different expectations when Patricia Field is doing the costumes but good lord. First Kelsey walked in wearing a blanket and Lauren had on the most hideous jeans I have ever seen. Later Maggie looked like she was a mambo dancer with those crazy sleeves.

 

Josh's tinder picture was hilarious because whenever I see profile pictures like that, I wonder how it happened. Like did he tell someone, "Hey, go walk up the street and then wait until I'm gazing into the street like I'm trying to read the menu in the window across the street and then take a picture so I like pensive but approachable"?

 

Ha, I laughed at how Liza had to track down Sebastian based on his description of the farm. Since he said he didn't want to become famous, why didn't Liza offer him the option to use a pseudonym?

 

Kelsey's other friends SUCK. If they all think Kelsey and Thad shouldn't get married, then the least they could do is say something instead of making Liza the spokesperson and then not backing her up. BITCHES! Plus they should have been talking shit about Thad from the second that Kelsey dumped him at his company party.

 

I never thought I would be one to defend THAD, of all people, but cousin in law IS a real thing, Kelsey. Not only am I friends with my cousins' spouses, but I am also FB friends with several of my husband's cousins and even some of their relatives (the most convoluted one is my husband's cousin's husband's sister's fiance's cousin - but for the record, I talk to every person I just mentioned).

 

Hahaha, Diana was on fire tonight, first when she congratulated Kelsey on her starter marriage, said she was kidding, and then mouthed to Liza that she wasn't. I  loved Diana's FB status update: "Glad this new tooth is working out." And I could totally relate to Diana seeing that Kelsey and Thad's engagement was FB official, rolling her eyes, and then making herself click the like button.

[allonsyalice]

I'm defending Kelsey's blanket scarf, because I WANT ONE! they're amazing, they keep the wearer sO WARM! Also, i liked her triangle hair clip when Diana congratulated her on her "starter marriage."

 When you don't get likes on instagram, thats a sign! I'm torn on Kelsey's friends, because, you know, that is exactly how my girl group is and that how we would do things in that situation. But we would back each other up. Because we're friends. 

I'm also so over Thad. He really is the guy you date before you get married. He's just so shady. I can't really expand on that, but there is something that rubs me the wrong way about him, maybe he's just the wooorrsssttt

[Hanahope]

Ok, I get that the shepherd being a sheep-fucker is unpalatable for dating material, but you can still publish his book.  Course, I think its such a plot device that Liza didn't notice the big "SIGN HERE" sticky.

 

I thought Diana was going to make a play for Mr. Shepherd, but maybe its too soon after the male-feminist.  She was great tonight with the FB stuff.

 

I agree that it was pretty shitty of Kelsey's friends to throw Liza under the bus like that, after setting her up.

[Rinaldo]

So, they have people banging sheep on TVLand now.  How interesting.

"I was grooming her!" could become the new "We were on a break!"

[ElectricBoogaloo]

At least he didn't say, "I was thinking of you the whole time!" Oh, Mr. Schue.

[Sara2009]

At least he didn't say, "I was thinking of you the whole time!" Oh, Mr. Schue.

Hee. I actually liked the character up until the plot twist.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Sara2009

[rallymantis]

EEEEYYYYYEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[allonsyalice]

Hee. I actually liked the character up until the plot twist.

 

ugh same! they totally had me, hook, line and sinker until that plot this and I am SO ANGRY because of it!

[Macnyc]

Well, I didn't need to see THAT!

Darren Star should take his Sex and the City money and go retire on a beach somewhere. Better yet, a deserted island.

I would love to see the scene when Liza goes home and sees the wool scarf! How fast can she get that thing in the garbage?

[Sara2009]

ugh same! they totally had me, hook, line and sinker until that plot this and I am SO ANGRY because of it!

Maybe they just didn't want people to get attached to the character because the actor is only in one episode, so they needed to ruin him completely.

It's sort of a shame, though. I thought he and Liza had pretty good chemistry, and they could've had a fun short-term relationship.

[allonsyalice]

Maybe they just didn't want people to get attached to the character because the actor is only in one episode, so they needed to ruin him completely.

It's sort of a shame, though. I thought he and Liza had pretty good chemistry, and they could've had a fun short-term relationship.

 

I 100% agree. or like, the occasional mention and the even more occasional guest spot. BUT NO. RUIN HIM INSTEAD. I'm actually traumatized a little bit, to be honest.

[Sara2009]

I 100% agree. or like, the occasional mention and the even more occasional guest spot. BUT NO. RUIN HIM INSTEAD. I'm actually traumatized a little bit, to be honest.

I bet the actors' faces were priceless when they read the script, though. Ha ha

[MissLucas]

That was such a lame filler episode. It was clear from the get-go that shepherd guy would not work out in the end so I wasn't really invested enough in the character to feel shocked at the ending.

 

Kelsey and Co. get more and more annoying. The whole thing has reached the point where Liza should ask herself if the ruse is really worth it. Why is she wasting time baking instead of writing  about her experiences and then call in a meeting and pitch a book by an anonymous author about a 40-something who can't get a job and therefore pretends to be a 20-something. If she nails the pitch all her current problems are solved - she might get a couple of new ones but that would be refreshing.

[rallymantis]

I've stopped throwing up.

Back to say: Happy that they're giving Diana all the good lines.  If they can't get her a man, make her Eve Arden.  I can live with that.

[JasmineFlower]

Can't believe they went there. Matthew's scenes felt really charming and I didn't see the reason they had to ruin them in that way. It felt like with the kiss, things were already going to be awkward, so not sure why we had to totally torch that bridge to a never again in a million years level.

 

Although I can't stand Kelsey, I found them incredibly realistic, talking behind her back but not having the balls to speak up in person. I'm the speak up friend and can say from experience, although others talk more shit in behind their backs, it is amazing how much they won't speak up when everyone is in consensus that the guy is bad news. Even when there is solid proof of the things, not just a feeling. Now granted, I'm not a speak up anytime type of person, I would have said my peace before they got engaged and then just been resigned if it came. And more often than not, what is about to happen next week is one of the main reasons why I do speak up, feels like it's a better idea to speak up before the I do's than to say after the cheating is found out and the subsequent divorce, that yeah, I kinda knew. But yeah, not feeling Kelsey's friends, but they are dead on from a realistic standpoint.

 

So over Josh. I'm so over Liza being into Josh as if this was destined for forever. I don't mind a little mourning, but hope it doesn't linger too long. These seasons aren't that long!

[Lion]

Pretty straightforward episode, focusing on connectivity with barely disguised metaphors and commentary about introverts and those who don't use social media.  As someone who doesn't have personal accounts on twitter, facebook, instagram or other social media, I'm frequently treated as though I'm an alien goat fucker and it gets really annoying.  Still, straightforward episode.  

 

The biggest problem I had with this episode is that no one called the cops.  You see someone raping an animal, you call the damn police.  You don't drive back to the city and then giggle and cringe over it.  I'm a little concerned the writers don't know that animals can't consent to sex with humans and that bestiality is is often illegal.  Where it's not, it has sometimes at least been charged as animal cruelty.  Either way, witnessing rape to an animal constitutes a phone call to police. 

[Texasmom1970]

I know it can get lonely all alone on the farm, but eww. Join Farmers Only dating website or something!

[Eri]

Like many have already said, a random filler episode. I was very disappointed that they went there with the farmer guy. I've seen something similar in Black Mirror -  yeah did NOT need a repeat *cringe*

 

As for Kelsey, if she's that insecure about her relationship with Thad that she has to go through his Facebook and make him unfriend random female friends then what is she doing? I liked when she used her common sense and was stronger and independent, now since her engagement she's trying to act like some sort of wifey-type that is totally out of character for her. I was especially turned off that she'd tell Liza she's having "sour grapes" for stating her opinion - okay she had a break-up so now she can't say anything negative about relationships ever again? I never thought Kelsey would want to have complacent 'yes-women" as friends, especially Lauren who is normally so outspoken.

[dubbel zout]

Thad strikes me as the type of guy who needs to be told that having a bunch of women friends might be inappropriate when he's in a committed relationship. Look how long it took him to change his status. That should have been a major red flag to Kelsey, but I get where they're going with this (so far, at least).

 

I never thought Kelsey would want to have complacent 'yes-women" as friends, especially Lauren who is normally so outspoken.

Seriously. When did Lauren get so timid?

[Macnyc]

It just occurred to me that the barm scene would make a horrendous GIF.

[Maharincess]

Thad strikes me as the type of guy who needs to be told that having a bunch of women friends might be inappropriate when he's in a committed relationship. Look how long it took him to change his status. That should have been a major red flag to Kelsey, but I get where they're going with this (so far, at least).

Seriously. When did Lauren get so timid?

I don't think having friends of the opposite sex is inappropriate at all. A person secure in their relationship wouldn't care.

Is the status changing really a thing? I don't understand why that would be a big deal. I was hoping it was just made up for the show. If people really get upset by that, that's sad as hell.

This world is becoming ridiculous.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Maharincess

[dubbel zout]

I don't think having friends of the opposite sex is inappropriate at all

In general I don't think having friends of the opposite is inappropriate at all, either, it's THAD having friends of the opposite sex that could be. Clearly Kelsey isn't secure in their relationship, but Thad's behavior hasn't been entirely aboveboard. They're a disaster together.

[Julia]

I got the impression that it wasn't Thad having opposite-sex friends that was the problem. It was that he was using those opposite-sex friends as an excuse not to change his relationship status. If all those women can't hear that he's getting married online and she's never met any of them, I think she has reason - well, not to marry him, really, if she thought they were monogamous, but at least to draw a line in the sand.

[aradia22]

Are you serious, Younger? Matthew Morrison cannot be that busy. I was so excited to see him in the promos but if they were going to bring him in for a guest spot at least they could have avoided burning the character like this. Really, sheep f**king? How old are we? I thought the character had promise as embodying some of the good qualities of Josh but in an older version. And I was also annoyed because so far Millenial seems pretty incapable of landing and keeping good authors.

 

 

Hahaha, Diana was on fire tonight, first when she congratulated Kelsey on her starter marriage, said she was kidding, and then mouthed to Liza that she wasn't.

 

I thought Diana was going to make a play for Mr. Shepherd, but maybe its too soon after the male-feminist.

 

I'm always up for more Miriam Shor. Her expressions and line readings in the starter marriage scene were fantastic. I actually rewound and watched it a few times. Also, I would have enjoyed seeing Diana make a play for him instead of wasting Matthew Morrison like that.

Edited March 5, 2016 by aradia22

[aradia22]

Also, why did Liza refuse to defend Josh again?

[Sara2009]

Are you serious, Younger? Matthew Morrison cannot be that busy. I was so excited to see him in the promos but if they were going to bring him in for a guest spot at least they could have

avoided burning the character like this. Really,

sheep f**king? How old are we? I thought the

character had promise as embodying some of

the good qualities of Josh but in an older

version. And I was also annoyed because so far

Millenial seems pretty incapable of landing and

keeping good authors.

I'm always up for more Miriam Shor. Her expressions and line readings in the starter marriage scene were fantastic. I actually rewound and watched it a few times. Also, I

would have enjoyed seeing Diana make a play

for him instead of wasting Matthew Morrison like

that.

Matthew Morrison is pretty busy( he was still doing " Finding Neverland" when this was shot, and he's booked a recurring role on " The Good Wife), but I agree that ruining the character this way was very unnecessary. I mean, they made him a reclusive author. That alone could explain him not appearing much. They didn't need for him to go down in flames.

[Lion]

I don't think having friends of the opposite sex is inappropriate at all. A person secure in their relationship wouldn't care.

Is the status changing really a thing? I don't understand why that would be a big deal. I was hoping it was just made up for the show. If people really get upset by that, that's sad as hell.

This world is becoming ridiculous.

People have been announcing engagements and other life events for forever.  This isn't something new.  The only new thing is in how it's done.  So delaying a status update would be a bit like delaying an announcement in a newspaper.  One isn't inherently more ridiculous than the other since they are both functionally the same damn thing.  

Edited March 6, 2016 by Lion

[Ms Blue Jay]

I really feel like the show was severely punishing me for watching it.  Undateable did the same to me by ruining important aspects of Star Wars and Making a Murderer.  Can you even believe that a show would be so vicious to its audience?  I never watched it again.  I have always been on the fence about this show and it's seriously like Darren Star is trying very, very hard to push me over.  When you have 25 or so shows CURRENTLY vying for my attention, why would you even do that?  Seriously, it felt like abuse.  I'm sorry to be dramatic but also not sorry.  I was "Like"-ing everyone's comments here so hard that my browser wanted very badly to crash.

 

Matthew Morrison was so handsome in this role I honestly at first forgot who the actor was, I'd say that's a very good thing.  Liza and Shepherd had good chemistry and it felt like an age appropriate relationship (not that I mind inappropriate ones at all) and I thought Liza could be real with him with regards to her age, life experience, etc. and then THAT happened.  So fucking stupid.  If I were Matthew Morrison I would say No.  Isn't he some big Broadway star?  Did he need this?  I can't be the only one who still thinks of bad-smelling sperm whenever I see Bobby Cannavale, or someone who wants to urinate on women when I see the guy from Mad Men, and that seems like very small potatoes now.

 

There was something on this show worse than Lauren.  Hard to believe.

 

Also, looking at it from another angle, it made Liza look extremely stupid/naive for some reason.  She gets so swept up in a new person and everything about the character's "literature" was so corny and Blake Lively Preserve.  I guess it was supposed to be?  Liza is supposed to be so 'life-experienced' or whatever, and she was so charmed by this wool guy, I don't know.  Was a lesson supposed to be taught here?  God only knows.

 

I'm actually traumatized a little bit, to be honest.

 

Agreed.

 

Now, a very earnest question, what was going on with Thad?  Was he saying that if he were to announce his engagement on Facebook it would send shockwaves through his Facebook community?  Seriously?  Like he had so many casual flings waiting around hoping to hook up with or marry him that the announcement would be too traumatic for them?  Did he never have "In a relationship" as his status to prepare everyone?  

Edited March 7, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Sara2009]

Nevermind

Edited March 7, 2016 by Sara2009

[FireFoxy]

Yup. Still traumatized. 

[Snarklepuss]

I would hate to live in Darren Star's head. That's the only thing I can say about this episode.

 

I thought the episode on SATC where Carrie meets the guy who wanted her to pee on him was bad but this was over the top.  As soon as I saw a virtual hermit living with all those sheep and he said he wasn't really looking for a relationship that's when I got suspicious but thought "Nooooo, the show would never go there".  And yet Holy Fuck, it did.  Ho-kay.  Fuck Darren Star for making my mind go there before it even happened!  What does that say about ME?  LOL  I suppose I've lived through too many jokes about "Where men are men and sheep are nervous".  Then too Liza can be remarkably naive about her own relationships meanwhile she is so wise about Kelsey's.

 

Thad is a douche who only got engaged to Kelsey because his boss thought it would be a good idea.  He's obviously not ready for marriage and Kelsey does have reason to be insecure about all those women and who they are to him.  She is so blinded by the marriage bug that she is not seeing those things clearly right now.  Just as Liza was so blinded by the instant Josh replacement who lived in seclusion and wouldn't have an issue with running into people who might "out" her for lying about her age that she didn't think about how little she really knew about him.

 

I am tired of Josh and I hope Liza does really find someone new.  I can't help but hope Charles comes back into the picture somehow.  He was conspicuously absent in this episode.  I guess only one man for Liza is allowed into an episode at a time other than Josh.

[dubbel zout]

I like that Charles isn't pursuing Liza. He knows she's already in a relationship, and he's her boss. If he went after her, he'd be as big a douche as Thad, IMO, albeit of a different sort.

[tennisgurl]

I still wish Liza had told Kelsey that she asked Josh not to mention her in the article. 

 

Is the sheep fucking supposed to be funny? Or wacky? Because...its not. Its just really fucked up. 

 

Even if it seems silly, the status updates and relationship status thing is a thing for a lot of people. If someone wont put your relationship on Facebook, it can be taken to mean that its not a serious relationship, or that they have other guys/girls they're interested in, and do not want to scare off. Not that everyone cares at all, and this was played up more than most people, but I can see it. 

 

Kelsey and Thad are a terrible mix. He brings out the worst in her, because he happens to be the worst. 

 

As a person who is he same age as Kelsey and the other millennials, I am starting to feel like this is a show for older people trying to understand the "young people", not really a show for me. But, on the other hand, are those people into goat fucking? Lord knows younger people arent. 

[Julia]

As a person who is he same age as Kelsey and the other millennials, I am starting to feel like this is a show for older people trying to understand the "young people", not really a show for me. But, on the other hand, are those people into goat fucking? Lord knows younger people arent. 

 

Well, as a person who is the mother of a millennial, i don't see anything I recognize onscreen, but then I don't recognize most of the 'old' people either. I imagine the goatfucker thing is Darren Star's idea of a trenchant comment about something - it's crossed my mind that this may be his response to the whole slippery slope argument over gay marriage - but based on everything I've ever seen that he's written, it seems more likely that it's this week's truffle butter (aka a salacious urban legend some embittered MRA virgin posted to Urban Dictionary like it was A Thing).

[tennisgurl]

I just kind of feel like I am watching some kind of sociological report on the Ways of the Millennial in their Natural Habitat, but done by someone who has heard of millennials, and has seen them from a distance, but has very rarely if ever talked to one. There really is more to this generation than social media and hipsters! Just how there are plenty of non millennials who are into social media and the hipster scene. They are trying to do a generation gap story, but I feel like it could be a lot more nuanced. 

[Snarklepuss]

ITA, Tennisgurl, I have felt the same way about this show from day one.  I don't think it's done from the perspective of Millennials for Millennials but rather from the perspective of someone in my age bracket for people in my age bracket - I didn't even know how old Darren Star is until I just looked him up while writing this sentence - He's 3 years younger than me at 54 which like me makes him a later Boomer (Or Gen. Jones as we're sometimes called).  It's for middle aged women to fantasize about themselves being Liza.  And to see someone not all that much younger than them get away with being younger (because 40 would be just about as old as believable to do so) and have a chance to "do things over again" except this time with hot young guys, LOL.

[Talky Tina]

I thought the sheep thing was hilarious. I never get so worked up over a sitcom that I'd be angry or traumatized. Its a sitcom! It's fictional.

Could it end up that he really wasn't doing what Liza thought he was doing? Could he have really been grooming her? I didn't see him zipping his pants as he ran after Liza.

[Sara2009]

I thought the sheep thing was hilarious. I never get so worked up over a sitcom that I'd be angry or traumatized. Its a sitcom! It's fictional.

.

I think I was mostly irritated because the character was so likable and charming( IMO at least) up until that moment. If he had been established as creepy or shady all along, it still would've been gross, but I wouldn't have felt like he was ruined.

[Ms Blue Jay]

it's this week's truffle butter (aka a salacious urban legend some embittered MRA virgin posted to Urban Dictionary like it was A Thing).

 

Asking very earnestly, did you know about the Nicki Minaj song?

[Julia]

Asking very earnestly, did you know about the Nicki Minaj song?

 

Nah. If it's urgent, the kid will tell me about it. Probably while I'm eating.

[aradia22]

 

Could it end up that he really wasn't doing what Liza thought he was doing? Could he have really been grooming her? I didn't see him zipping his pants as he ran after Liza.

I do think they left a small window if they wanted to bring the character/actor back. But it's a very tiny window because it would mean that Liza was so childish that she ran away from an otherwise great person and prospective client because her mind went to something salacious and she wasn't interested in hearing his explanation. Again, I would like to see more signs of her competency in work, not just in solving problems (e.g. the rival publisher who keeps blackmailing her) when they arise.

[Snarklepuss]

I watched the sheep scene over and over again and froze it (I know, ugh) just to see if there was a chance that we were all getting the wrong impression and I kind of doubt it given the way he was grasping the sheep with both hands and bending over her from behind.  He was not holding any shearing instruments at the time plus wasn't this Stella, the sheep that had just been sheered?  He also seemed overly into personifying his sheep by affixing the name of the sheep to the piece of wool and then calling Stella a "good girl" in the scene at the outdoor fair with Liza.  When you go back and look at all of that it's pretty clear-cut to me and very creepy, unfortunately.

[aradia22]

I feel like we're all thinking about this too much (the writers probably stopped thinking after "haha, sheep f**king" "nice one, bro!") but he said "grooming" not "shearing." I've watched enough TV to know that there is very little you can't hand wave away if you give yourself the room to do so. Speaking of Matthew Morrison, Glee was a prime example of that. Could grooming mean awkwardly massaging a sheep and combing your fingers through its hair instead of using a brush? Sure, why not?

[sleekandchic]

I read this forum before watching the episode, so I admit I was especially watching Farmer Shep for any signs of WTF?

In the farmer's market scene, when Liza first meets Shep and admires the softness of his wares, he gets a little bit dreamy. He says yeah the wool is from Stella, and "she's a good (or great) girl." Is he in love?

Then, when Liza decides to drive upstate, unannounced, the first time, I really found that scene hilarious. She parks her car, the sheepdog jumps on the window and the flock gathers around her. Shep walks over, at first to say "I guess you didn't see the No Trespassing sign," then to be pleasantly surprised to see Liza. As they begin to walk back to the house together, the flock follows close behind, with ONE (I'm assuming it's Stella) leading, glued to the farmer's side, gazing up at him like a jealous gf. It's an amusing and comical sight. Well-executed, I thought.

Definitely a wtf ending, but Younger tries to push the envelope for basic cable whenever it can, I think. I like the show, and because of it, I've been introduced to the New Adventures of Old Christine, which TVLand runs a lot, and makes me lol. :)

Edited March 9, 2016 by sleekandchic

[Julia]

Well (is there a risk of being inappropriately gross on the subject of this episode?) grooming us also the word for how pedophiles prepare their victims, so.

[Snarklepuss]

I feel like we're all thinking about this too much (the writers probably stopped thinking after "haha, sheep f**king" "nice one, bro!") but he said "grooming" not "shearing." I've watched enough TV to know that there is very little you can't hand wave away if you give yourself the room to do so. Speaking of Matthew Morrison, Glee was a prime example of that. Could grooming mean awkwardly massaging a sheep and combing your fingers through its hair instead of using a brush? Sure, why not?

 

Grooming is pretty much synonymous with shearing in the animal world - My mother was a dog groomer when she was young and groomed her own dogs as long as she was alive (Poodles and Westies), so I'm pretty darned sure that there is no "awkward massaging" involved in grooming sheep.  BTW, here is Google's image page on "sheep grooming" - You draw your own conclusions:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=sheep+grooming&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW0aeux7PLAhUIcT4KHTXVBo4Q_AUIBygB&biw=1536&bih=731

 

Also, the sheep he was holding looked freshly groomed to me already - notice how "fat" sheep can look before grooming in the photos.  Not that he would let them get as fat as that but again, the sheep he was holding looked freshly sheared to me.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Snarklepuss