S03.E05: XXIII

[Bort]

Vane finds a new way forward from Teach; Silver urges Flint to make a move or die; Eleanor and Rogers respond to a new threat.

[Trisan]

Episode available.

 

Well, this was, as usual, bloody amazing ! This show just doesnt disapoint !

 

Somehow, I'm sad Vikings has started airing so soon because as much as I love Vikings, well... I dont think it will compare to what Black Sails has offered so far this season !

 

And, by the way, I cannot find any historical proof of the black pearl form of currency. I had never heard about it before and perhaps I havent search enough, but do anyone know if it's a real thing or a show invented device ?

[CatMack]

Well I wasn't quite right with my Eleanor/Woodes fucking by episode 5 prediction, but I'm giving myself a half point because now that they've kissed it's gonna happen aaaaany time now. 

[FlowerofCarnage]

The way John stared at Madi, I'll say it's a definite that she is going to be the future Mrs. Silver.

[Neurochick]

The way John stared at Madi, I'll say it's a definite that she is going to be the future Mrs. Silver.

 

Totally, or he's trying to figure out a way to manipulate her.

 

These past two episodes is what diversity in TV is about.  It's not about just adding a few non white faces and saying, "see the show's not totally white."  It's about giving those faces a point of view, a purpose.  I loved the scene between Mr. Scott and Madi; and between Mr. Scott and the queen.  I loved how Mr. Scott trusted his wife to make the decision.  A lesser show runner would make the Maroons "savages,"  But the Maroons are shown as people who do have humanity, it's just that they have a different point of view than the pirates.  

Edited February 21, 2016 by Neurochick

[WatchrTina]

 

Well I wasn't quite right with my Eleanor/Woodes fucking by episode 5 prediction, but I'm giving myself a half point because now that they've kissed it's gonna happen aaaaany time now.

Yeah I think you're right.  Black Sails hasn't gotten anyone naked so far this season.  We're due a sex scene.  But damn that Woodes has bad luck.  He was so happy with Max's pearls . . . for about five minutes.  Worst.  Cockblock.  Ever.

 

So . . . Flint's planning on getting the band back together (that would be the amazing duet that laid waste to Charlestown.)  Cool.

Edited February 21, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Morrigan2575]

I'm sad that Mr. Scott isn't long for this world, I've always liked him.

I'm thoroughly enjoying this season and completely enjoying the budding friendship between Flint/Silver. However, I'm so excited to see a Flint/Vane reunion. Their animosity and and reluctant frienemy relationship at the end of last season was wonderful to watch.

Now, I have a couple of questions.

Who is the woman that was spying on Governor Woods Rogers? I missed the first 2 episodes and didn't bother to go back and watch them. I've been working under the assumption that she was his wife but tonight's exchange didn't seem to support that.

I also think I missed an episode last year either that or my memory is failing. Where Max and Eleanor truthful or lying during their exchange? I got the feeling that Eleanor was truthful and she didn't have Max on her hitlist. However, I felt that Maz lied and she ratted Eleanor out. I don't know if that's true but that's the impression I got from the acting.

[WatchrTina]

 

Who is the woman that was spying on Governor Woods Rogers?

She's new this season.  Mrs. Hudson is the woman who attended to Eleanor's needs on the ship.  Eleanor called her a chambermaid at one point but I think she speaks too well for that, though she did admit to having been in service to ladies before (and she didn't think too highly of them.)  I assumed she was equal parts servant and jailor on the ship.  Now that Eleanor is best buddies with Rogers, she has probably been demoted to strictly a servant role but I assumed Rogers was also paying her to keep an eye on Eleanor at all times.  As we discovered tonight -- others have been paying too.

 

 

Were Max and Eleanor truthful or lying during their exchange?

My recollection is that we don't know and I assume we will never know.  I also assumed that both women assumed the other was lying.  My own personal belief is that Eleanor put everyone BUT Max on the list, believing that if she killed everyone else that knew about the gold that would be sufficient.  Surely Max would not be able to come up with a second ship and crew (that she could trust) to mount a recovery mission.  As for Max -- it never crossed my mind that she told Hornigold where to find Eleanor -- until now.  But now that I think about it, I wouldn't put it past her.  I don't think she ever forgave Eleanor for scotching her plan to sell the stolen page to Vane, Jack & Anne back in Season 1 or  for Eleanor choosing Flint and power over Max in that instance.  Also Max is ambitious.  Getting rid of Eleanor would have left an opening for her to move into (which she did move into.)  So yeah, I think it's likely that Max sold out Eleanor.

 

You know that black hooded figure that Flint dreams about?  I thought it was the personification of death  But I wonder if that wasn't Thomas' voice we heard it speak with (Thomas who was Miranda's husband and Flint's lover.)

Edited February 21, 2016 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

I'm really enjoying the addition of the story of the Maroons.  It is kind of amusing that two episodes ago Silver was pretty much steeling himself to kill Flint and now they're each other's best buddy, as was Flint's total nonreaction to the news that Billy would be just fine with Flint getting himself killed for them.

 

It's probably a good thing that Flint has newfound powers of persuasion considering the sell he's now going to have to make to his crew.  "Yeah, I know I got some of you killed steering deliberately into a storm and few more when we were stranded for weeks with almost no food or water.  And now we're in this cage.  But good news, we're going to go pick a fight with the British Empire vastly outmanned and outgunned.  Just ignore the pardons that are free for the asking for anyone who wants to sign his X on the line."

 

I guess there really is nothing sexier than a man who's threatened you repeatedly with summary hanging, right Eleanor?

[ulkis]

That Rogers/Eleanor almost kiss was good, they have chemistry. Damn you meddling servant wench!

 

So nice of Silver to give Flint a  "I just know you can manipulate everyone like a puppet to your needs" pep speech, heh. Although I think Flint's plan of expecting everyone to join them is a bit optimistic. 

 

Good for Billy for getting his own selfish moment of "fuck no, let him kill himself if he wants". He should get one if everyone else does!

 

Damn it, I wanted Max's scheme to work. 

 

I'm lukewarm on Anne Bonny but when Rackham told her to wait just so they didn't have to change their names I wanted her to take the stuff and leave his dumbass behind.

[ulkis]

 Eleanor called her a chambermaid at one point but I think she speaks too well for that

 

People could train themselves out of that, though, I guess (I'm thinking of Outlander when Randall said he worked hard to get rid of his accent, although he did say he paid for a lot of lessons in order to do it).

 

I guess there really is nothing sexier than a man who's threatened you repeatedly with summary hanging, right Eleanor?

 

After Vane she's probably unimpressed. 

 

as was Flint's total nonreaction to the news that Billy would be just fine with Flint getting himself killed for them.

 

Flint probably assumes all of them are cool with him getting killed for them at this point. Although speaking of that scene Toby Stephens was so good in it, he didn't need to talk at all for that to seem like a dialogue between Silver and Flint.

[ganesh]

I was rooting for Max too. She had the foresight to transfer the gold into more portable currency, and this was the time when you play that card. If I was her I would be definitely angling for a seat on that council. "We don't want you on that council, but if you come out and support it, then it's going to work." Uh, no. 

 

I like how it's like, "Yay I'm teh governor of a tropical island! Wait what? What? WHAT?!"

 

"Yeah, I know I got some of you killed steering deliberately into a storm and few more when we were stranded for weeks with almost no food or water."

 

To be fair, the other choice was engaging a superior ship in battle that they wouldn't have won. Way more would have died had they done that. 

 

Really awesome that Vane knows spanish and also happens to have the plans to invade Nassau literally at his feet. And Flint is looking for him. 

 

I'm not getting 

 

I really like the Island pieces, but I think after two episodes, you have to move on and get to more action. I certainly hope that they keep them in the show. I thought Flint might have been bluffing about taking Nassau, but when he said that the english took from him too, I was like, "uh oh."

 

I don't get Blackbeard. He's just kind of doing things. You need a port for repairs and supplies. You need to let the men off the ship for a while to go drink and have sex. It's not like they can roll up anywhere. 

 

One thing I think is really good in having 2 episodes of everyone trapped in a cage is that the show *needed* the Silver and Flint time. 

[WatchrTina]

Vane is on Blackbeard's ship and not on his own so that supports my suspicion that the fire-ship was the ship we saw Vane raiding with in the first episode (presumably the ship he took from Ned Low.)  So that still begs the question of where is the Man O' War?

 

Another question . . . if Max gives Rogers her pearls but Rogers has to give them to the Spanish, does she still get a seat on the board?

 

But the biggest question, really, is how the f**k is Flint supposed to find Vane?

[ulkis]

re: Mrs. Hudson, I noticed her Spanish accent was pretty good too, so maybe there's something there that she is good at accents. Maybe she's a spy by profession.

Vane is on Blackbeard's ship and not on his own so that supports my suspicion that the fire-ship was the ship we saw Vane raiding with in the first episode (presumably the ship he took from Ned Low.) So that still begs the question of where is the Man O' War?

Another question . . . if Max gives Rogers her pearls but Rogers has to give them to the Spanish, does she still get a seat on the board?

But the biggest question, really, is how the f**k is Flint supposed to find Vane?

I doubt Max gets a seat in that case.

I think the man of war is still in the bay. Just no one is doing anything with it because they accepted the pardons.

Good point about Flint finding Vane. I'm guessing he comes back to Nassau instead for whatever reason.

[Bort]

re: Mrs. Hudson, I noticed her Spanish accent was pretty good too, so maybe there's something there that she is good at accents. Maybe she's a spy by profession.

I noticed the accent and pretty much assumed that she was planted in her position by Spain.

[WatchrTina]

The other give-away that Mrs. Hudson may be more of a professional spy than she is admitting to is her remarkable ability to tell at a glance that a pile of black pearls sitting on Rogers desk is only half of what local rumors say was converted from the Urca de Lima hoard.  That's some savant-level mental math she did.  And really -- is it possible that local "rumors" could be so specific and accurate as to the value of the missing gold? It's too soon for an accurate accounting of what was in the fort to have been taken and rumors always exaggerate.  No, her big reveal was either: 

1. an exposition dump that the writers assigned to her character to create the obstacle that Rogers has to overcome (Drama 101), or
2. a huge clue that she is tapped into an well-established Spanish spy network already operating on the island, or
3. both of the above. 

 

Poor Rogers.  Talk about the world's worst cock-block.  Before Mrs. Hudson bursts in he's obtained a slush fund equal to five year's worth of taxes from the locals without a single shot having been fired (well except for the one now lodged in poor Mr. Scott's gut) and it looks like his lovely captive / advisor is about to evolve into a fuck-buddy.  After she walks in the door he's lost the slush fund and discovered that he has to find a similar amount of missing pearls or the Spanish will assume he stole them and will send a fleet to lay waste to the island.  He is definitely no longer in the mood for sexy times, even if Eleanor is.   I wonder if that was part of Mrs. Hudson's plan?  Maybe she recognizes that Eleanor is playing Rogers and crashed through the door specifcially at that moment to break up the romantic mood.  If she's as good a spy as I now suspect she's already learned that Eleanor once used her feminine wiles (okay, she was "fucking him") to get Vane to betray Teach so maybe she's trying shut down the prospect of Eleanor gaining influence with Rogers in the same way. Good luck to her with that.  This is Black Sails.  There will be fucking.

 

Yeah, I think it's clear that there is more to Mrs. Hudson than she is pretending.  As my mother would say, this ain't her first time at the rodeo.

Edited February 21, 2016 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

But the biggest question, really, is how the f**k is Flint supposed to find Vane?

 

My husband asked this too.  Teach said they were three days out from Ocracoke, so heading to North Carolina's Outer Banks.  Still assuming double secret Maroon Island is somewhere close to Nassau, which I have to think it is or Flint and the queen's deal really makes no sense at all, how the hell is Flint supposed to know to start looking for Vane all the way up there?

 

I was also curious about all the math involved in accounting for the Urca gold or its equivalents.  We were told in the very first episode this season that part of what was happening in Nassau was that it was so awash in gold that they were having to pay ridiculous amounts of money to get people to do anything.  They were so casual about doling it out and keeping track of it that men were leaving 500 pieces at a time in the privy.  Considering that they all knew the British were coming, it's not unreasonable to think probably more than a few pirates cashed out their shares and left.  And probably a few more after they got their pardons.  So I'm a little skeptical that the Spanish really think they're going to get every last piece or it's value back, black pearl count aside.

 

I realize a lot may still happen before it's all over but I'll admit that right now I'm more than a little disappointed that right now it looks like none of our gang may profit from the treasure we've watched them obsess and fight and kill over for two seasons.

Edited February 21, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[WatchrTina]

 

Considering that they all knew the British were coming, it's not unreasonable to think probably more than a few pirates cashed out their shares and left.  And probably a few more after they got their pardons.

Remember that six months that happened off camera during the hiatus?  The period during which the alliance of Flint, Vane & Rackham was formed?  I can fan-wank that the combined force of personality of those three plus Silver was able to convince the three crews that no one be allowed to "cash out" and leave because the gold needed to be defended and they needed every man to do it.  Vane and Flint still had full crews on their ships and yeah, Rackham's crew included morons who left bags of gold in privies and were too lazy to work on rebuilding the fort but they were still on the island.  I can wrap my brain around the idea that the amount of gold that has been paid out to the crew is relatively minor compared to the hoard.  There have been repeated references to "what is left" of the Urca de Lima hoard by Rogers and others in his fleet so it seems clear that a certain amount of "shrinkage" is expected from the payments to the crews.  But what Anne & Max converted is, I presume, exponentially larger -- well outside the shrinkage the Spanish were prepared to put up with.

 

As for the pardons -- those weren't being given out until the English arrived and once that started it seems clear that the First National Bank of the Republic of Pirates was closed down.  No withdrawals after than.  I think we are intended to assume only Anne & Max (and Jack) ever got to make a significant withdrawal. 

 

 

I'm more than a little disappointed that right now it looks like none of our gang may profit from the treasure we've watched them obsess and fight and kill over for two seasons.

I think the writers are pretty much backed into a corner on that one.  We've practically heard them explain why the characters we are supposed to be empathizing with can't keep it.  Flint recognized the destabilizing influence of the gold back in season 2.  HIs realization is what prompts Silver to construct the lie that it is gone.  Then Blackbeard basically makes the same declaration in episode 2 of this season, saying that a haul of that size -- one that brings "prosperity" to the island -- will be be the ruin of the pirate way of life.  There wasn't any way for them to keep the gold and have the show continue to be about pirates doing pirate stuff.  It would have become something more akin to a cautionary tale about the perils of winning the lottery.

 

Max, however, did profit.  I'm pretty sure she's going to get to keep her seat on the board even though Rogers can't keep her pearls.  He gave his word -- they struck a deal and payment was received -- and his having a reputation for keeping his word with islanders matters.  If he goes back on his promise to Max after payment has been accepted she'll make sure that's known on the island and he won't be able to cut deals with anyone after that.

 

As for whether or not Jack & Anne will be able to keep their shares -- well I think that's going to be the question for the next couple of episodes.

Edited February 23, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Bort]

The other give-away that Mrs. Hudson may be more of a professional spy than she is admitting to is her remarkable ability to tell at a glance that a pile of black pearls sitting on Rogers desk is only half of what local rumors say was converted from the Urca de Lima hoard.  That's some savant-level mental math she did.  And really -- is it possible that local "rumors" could be so specific and accurate as to the value of the missing gold? It's too soon for an accurate accounting of what was in the fort to have been taken and rumors always exaggerate.

If the rumor was that Max and Anne split their wares fifty-fifty, then Mrs. Hudson need not have any sort of special ability to tell how much the bounty on Rogers's desk was worth, she only needed to know that Max gave him all of her share. I don't think she's any sort of professional spy just yet. I need more evidence to support that theory.

[WatchrTina]

 

If the rumor was that Max and Anne split their wares fifty-fifty

Oooh, you've just given me a thought.  Why would Max's share be equal to 50% of what is missing?  It should only be 1/3rd of what is missing.  Anne would have safeguarded Jack's share too.  So . . . what if an amount equal to Max's share does eventually come back but that is only HALF of what Anne & Jack are carrying?  The other half could, somehow, be the missing fortune that plays a central role in Treasure Island.  That's not a spoiler -- I can't recall having ever read that book -- but clearly there is a missing treasure at the center of that plot.  Food for thought.

[Neurochick]

My question about the gold is, who took Silver's share?  Remember, he told Flint he gave up his share to stay with the crew, if he's telling the truth, who got his share?

 

I really liked Maroon island, because it showed a totally different type of society

I also think that it might introduce us to the future Mrs. Silver.  In Treasure Island, Silver is married to a "woman of color" and since this is the 18th century, I want to know how did they meet?  Then again, it may not be Madi, but who knows?

[nodorothyparker]

I've long speculated that the Urca gold or at least a portion of it would end up being the title treasure in Treasure Island.  It just feels like they've spent too much time on it over the seasons for it not to be.  That's why I'm really hoping the end of this story is not that the Spanish get all their gold back and they all sail home, the end.  

[henripootel]

But the biggest question, really, is how the f**k is Flint supposed to find Vane?

Flint knows Vane is with Teach, and Teach's living in Bath doesn't seem to be that big a secret.  Were I Flint I'd head for Bath.

My question about the gold is, who took Silver's share?  Remember, he told Flint he gave up his share to stay with the crew, if he's telling the truth, who got his share?

I'd assume nobody did, or rather the English are about to give it back to Spain.  Funny that the only guy who seems to have had some fun with his share was the guy who kept leaving bags of his money around Nassau.

That's why I'm really hoping the end of this story is not that the Spanish get all their gold back and they all sail home, the end.

 

The gold's not back with the Spanish just yet, and Vane and Teach have a fleet.  Be a hell of a thing to steal it back.  Not a spoiler, just wondering.

[WatchrTina]

I just re-watched the episode on StarzPlay with headphones on (which I highly recommend because the sound design for this show is excellent) and I enjoyed it even more.  I guess it's because the first time I watch I'm waiting to see what happens and the second time I watch I can really focus on the dialog and the performances and the show structure.  This show is REALLY good.  Here are some things we haven't really talked about yet.

 

THE GOOD:

 

Can we just talk about that opening dream sequence?  So eery.  I am now absolutely convinced that the actor who played Thomas (Miranda's husband, Flint's lover) voiced death in that dream.  Perfect.  BTW, if you watch online there is a behind-the-scenes video that comes after the episode that talks about the design of "death."  The dream ends with Miranda saying "You can't see it yet, can you?  You are not alone."  I wondered what was meant by that at first.  I was afraid that she was hinting at a new love connection for Flint (I do NOT ship Flint/Silver) but now I think she meant the crew.  I think Flint is connected to them (and they to him) in the same ensnaring, redemptive manner than John Silver experienced. I think that plays out in the episode.  First Flint essentially offers to take one for the team -- he'll sacrifice himself to save the crew if the Queen doesn't go for the deal.  Then later in that tête-à-tête between Silver and Flint, Sliver essentially calls him on having a death-wish -- for wanting to go out a hero -- and that has an effect on Flint.  It pulls him back from the brink.  I think we've seen the last of "death" in his dreams.

 

There is a lot of exposition in this episode and it addressed a lot of the questions we've been having here.  Mr. Scott says of the Maroon camp that when he sent his wife and daughter there it was much smaller and "It was far more remote than other camps like it."  This helps me understand:

1. ​How they have remained hidden (very remote), and
2. How Mr. Scott and his wife rose to power (his continue support via his position in Nassau.)

 

We've talked about how it seems unlikely that the island could be reached in a open boat unless it was very close to Nassau.  But now I recollect that Vane and his company made it all the way to Charlestown in open boats.  They didn't take Ned Low's ship when they went to claim the Man 'O War.  They couldn't -- they had to skulk off in the opposite direction from the harbor.  I always assumed  they got there in the same little boats they used to reach Nassau the first time -- after Charles rose from the "dead" and killed his nemesis.  So it's been established that one can successfully navigate a significant distance in the Caribbean and along the east coat of the Americas in a small, open boat.  

 

The real question is how did Mr. Scott survive the trip?  I have a theory.  Mr. Scott is NOT gut shot.  If his intestines were pierced then he would be doomed.  But if he was shot in the liver and it was a through-and-through shot with no foreign matter in the wound, then he can survive.  The liver is the only organ in the body that regenerates.  If the medicine-woman knows all the 18th century tricks for staving off infection, he could survive. (Thank you book 8 of the "Outlander" series.) Given where the wound is I think that is plausible so that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.  I REALLY want Mr. Scott to survive -- he just became a MUCH more interesting character.

 

That scene between Flint and Mr. Scott is also interesting.  Flint points out that "For as long as I have known you, you've been two wholly separate men." and Mr. Scott replies "Until now."  That has to resonate with Flint.  For as long as Mr. Scott has known him Flint has been two wholly separate men -- Captain Flint, a lawless pirate and James McGraw, a man who wanted to save Nassau and bring her back into the arms of mother England.  Flint said to Silver just last week that maybe it was time for Flint to "go" (he made a similar offer last season to Lord Ashe.)  I wonder if this season will see the two secret sides of Flint brought together in the same way that Mr. Scott's double life has been brought to a close. 

 

On a similar note, Jack doesn't want to take a new name.  He doesn't want to see his identity split the way Flint's and Scott's have been.  It's an recurring theme throughout the episode.

 

Another place where I noticed parallel structures on the show was the cutting back and forth between the quiet interlude between Vane and the dying Spanish crewman and the quiet talk between Flint and Mr. Scott on his sick bed.

 

Another thing I liked -- from the very beginning I thought it seemed unlikely that a woman would be able to rise to the position that Eleanor found herself in in the very first episode of the series.  This became doubly unlikely when Eleanor's strained relationship with her father was revealed.  I always understood that Mr. Scott's assistance was key to Eleanor's success but in this episode we find out another reason for WHY Mr. Scott was so helpful to her.  He had strong motivation to make Eleanor a strong leader -- so that he could fade into the background and be better positioned to continue helping his wife's community.

 

There was some good foreshadowing in this episode.  We don't see Vane pick up those papers that Blackbeard dropped -- the ones that would be "very useful" were someone planning an invasion of Nassau.  But you know he picked them up.  They are like Chekhov's gun -- they will reappear before this story is over.  The tricky part, of course, is that I'm fairly sure it's been established that Vane can't read.  Who will he turn to to make use of those pages?  I'd say it's a safe bet that Flint WILL find Vane and that's when the pages will reappear.

 

BTW, did you hear Blackbeard say at the end of that scene that the Spanish clearly "have a spy in [the governor's] office"?  I didn't hear it the first time through.  That's why second viewings can be fun.

 

Another thing I didn't notice the first time through was the mass of jewels on Rogers' desk.  Not just black pearls.  There were big, white pearls and boxes full of other gems of many colors.  That is a LOT of money that Anne & Max managed to convert.

 

The parting between Jack and Anne was sweet -- the kiss on the head -- Jack's wave without looking back, certain that she was watching.  I do find the affection between those two very geniune.

 

THE BAD:

 

Jack says to Anne, "They have pardons for unrepentant murderers back there.  If that is the case then there are certainly pardons for us too."  The way he phrases it it suggests that he doesn't think that he and Anne fall into that category.  Um no.  I think we'v only ever seen Jack kill once -- that hand-to-hand combat with the other pirate captain when they could not come to agreement on "splitting the baby."  But we've seen Anne kill a LOT and more importantly we know she was part of the plot with Eleanor to kill all of Vane's remaining crew (her OWN crew) in season 1. And she killed Charlotte (the artistic whore) for no good reason in season 2.   I suppose this is just an example of the lies people tell themselves to make peace with the bad things they've done, but I call shenanigans on Jack thinking he and Anne are somehow not "unrepentant murderers."

 

I also don't see how Jack going back to get a pardon will work without Anne getting one too.  You have to sign your name to get a pardon (we've seen that) so is Jack's plan that he'll get a pardon, Anne won't, and then everyone will just ignore his still-outlaw sidekick?  I don't think Jack thought that one through completely.   Or maybe he's not being truthful with Anne and he's going back not for a pardon but because he's up to something.  If so, cool.  I like sneaky Jack.

 

THE UGLY:

 

The mole on Idelle's face.  I guess she's alway's had it but damn, I never noticed it before.  The actress doesn't have one -- I looked.  So I think the make-up department just made it more prominent this season.

Edited February 21, 2016 by WatchrTina

[LadyPenelope]

Another amazing episode - definitely one of my favourite shows on TV right now.

 

Loved the reunion between Max and Eleanor - hard to believe that they used to be in love. I have no idea whether one or both of them were lying, but I think Max fully intends to hold onto her new position and if Eleanor has to be sacrificed to make that happen, she won't hesitate.

 

I also still can't tell whether Eleanor is playing Rogers or is genuinely on his side. She certainly seems to be playing it straight, but I think ultimately she will do what is best for Nassau regardless of her personal feelings, as usual. On the other hand, if Rogers loses the upcoming fight, I don't know if there will even be a place for her in Nassau, so she will likely be motivated to help him, putting her in opposition to the rest of the main players.

 

I ship everyone and everything but this episode I was particularly in love with Flint and Silver's bromance (sadly, I think the fact that Silver is married in Treasure Island suggests that it will only ever be a strong friendship, but good God would I love for something to make Flint happy again - Toby Stephens' face breaks my heart every episode), Jack and Anne (somehow the healthiest relationship on this show), and Vane and Nassau (so glad he seems to be heading home in the near future).

 

The tricky part, of course, is that I'm fairly sure it's been established that Vane can't read.  Who will he turn to to make use of those pages?  I'd say it's a safe bet that Flint WILL find Vane and that's when the pages will reappear.

 

Has that been established? I mean, I sort of hope it has, because Vane puzzling over words and trying to sound them out, while Teach stands over him and tries to help, would be delightful. But I'm sure we have seen him read and write? Didn't he write a sign to put under Ned Low's severed head saying 'I angered Charles Vane'? Then again - if he could only write one sentence, it wouldn't surprise me if 'I angered Charles Vane' was it. Or maybe Jack wrote it! So many questions - quick, somebody go write some fan fiction which is just Vane learning to read!

[Triskan]

Featherstone speech about the pardon and now being a free citizen of the Empire was also a really great moment. Way to flesh out the character a little bit more and give another real weight to the pardons !

[Neurochick]

Another thing I liked -- from the very beginning I thought it seemed unlikely that a woman would be able to rise to the position that Eleanor found herself in in the very first episode of the series.  This became doubly unlikely when Eleanor's strained relationship with her father was revealed.  I always understood that Mr. Scott's assistance was key to Eleanor's success but in this episode we find out another reason for WHY Mr. Scott was so helpful to her.  He had strong motivation to make Eleanor a strong leader -- so that he could fade into the background and be better positioned to continue helping his wife's community.

 

 

That is a good point.  Also, interesting that Mr. Scott's wife became the leader of the Maroon community.   Could it be because she can read and write?  Last week when Madi told Silver to come talk to her, they were inside a room that had a huge bookcase.  Now, there were a few children in that community, are they teaching them to read and write?  I ask because, I don't know about the British system of slavery, but in the United States, it was against the law to teach a slave to read and write.  

 

I wondered how many languages the Queen could speak; most slaves were taken from west Africa, Senegal and Gambia, and when I was there decades ago, I remember two different languages that were spoken there, perhaps there were more in the 18th century.  Also some of the people were dressed in more European attire while some weren't.  

 

Loved the reunion between Max and Eleanor - hard to believe that they used to be in love. I have no idea whether one or both of them were lying, but I think Max fully intends to hold onto her new position and if Eleanor has to be sacrificed to make that happen, she won't hesitate.

 

 

The romance between Max and Eleanor has always been sad to me.  Max had this naive idea that she would sell the page to Vane and then she and Eleanor would run off together and live happily ever after.  To Max, Eleanor chose Nassau over their relationship but I think Eleanor saw and sees Nassau as something larger than just her, she sees it as leaving something behind, a legacy.

 

I re-read Treasure Island last year and when I read it,  I kept wondering how in the world was Silver married because in seasons 1 and 2 (well, early in season 2), John Silver cared only about John Silver.  Also in the book, he and his wife seem very loyal to each other.  I can see this season's Silver being married as he does seem to care about people other than himself.

 

Kind of OT, but for the people here who have Starz and who have Time Warner, did they show episodes 4 and 5 on demand?  I watched both of them early, but online (which is how I love to watch the show since I can use the headphones), because for some strange reason, episodes 4 and 5 aren't on demand.  So I wonder if that's a Starz thing or a Time Warner thing.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Neurochick

[ulkis]

Has that been established? I mean, I sort of hope it has, because Vane puzzling over words and trying to sound them out, while Teach stands over him and tries to help, would be delightful. But I'm sure we have seen him read and write? Didn't he write a sign to put under Ned Low's severed head saying 'I angered Charles Vane'? Then again - if he could only write one sentence, it wouldn't surprise me if 'I angered Charles Vane' was it. Or maybe Jack wrote it! So many questions - quick, somebody go write some fan fiction which is just Vane learning to read!

 

It hasn't been definitely established, but it seems likely. Although it would be kinda weird if Blackbeard had him under his tutelage and never taught Vane even a little. Unless Vane didn't care to know.

[Bort]

Yeah, I don't find it likely that Vane is illiterate. Ship captains have to be able to navigate and read maps to do their jobs.

[WatchrTina]

I guess I assumed he was illiterate when he made Abigail write the letter to her father in season 2.  Something about the way Zach played that scene made me think Vane couldn't write the letter and didn't want his crew to know, so he used Abigail as his amanuensis (which is fancy word for "one who takes dictation" that I learned from another seafaring story, Cloud Atlas.)

 

 

Ship captains have to be able to navigate and read maps to do their jobs.

Proper ship's captains may need to but a pirate captain is voted into his role more for his leaderships skills.  Flint obviously can read but he has a navigator on board (De Groot) and if someone illiterate were voted into the Captain's position to replace Flint I'm sure that person would just lean on De Groot and the other literate members of the crew to read the names on a map.  The map itself (shapes of coastlines, relative distances between places, etc.) can be generally understood by anyone.

Edited February 21, 2016 by WatchrTina

[LadyPenelope]

The romance between Max and Eleanor has always been sad to me.  Max had this naive idea that she would sell the page to Vane and then she and Eleanor would run off together and live happily ever after.  To Max, Eleanor chose Nassau over their relationship but I think Eleanor saw and sees Nassau as something larger than just her, she sees it as leaving something behind, a legacy.

 

I agree, and I particularly like that Eleanor's loyalty to Nassau is the one thing she has imprinted on the people who have loved her. Max might have been willing to run away with Eleanor once, but now Nassau is the most important thing to her - I think she genuinely cared for Anne but she wouldn't have left Nassau for her. Same with Vane in this episode, in his conversation with Teach - the thing that Eleanor has left him with is an abiding connection to Nassau, despite himself.

[ganesh]

Vane is a lefty, and back when I was a pirate and had to use ink, I'd smudge all over the place and make a mess. If I could have dictated a letter for someone to write, I would have.

 

One thing that was cool when Flint was making his case to the queen was when the camera shot was on his side when he was taking and his face was all dark. 

[tennisgurl]

Vane speaking Spanish...not gonna lie, that was pretty hot. 

 

I really like how things are playing out with the Maroons, and I am really interested in seeing more of how their dynamic changes with our gang. 

 

I love how Flints reaction to "Billy could care less if you live or die" was basically "Yeah, thats pretty fair". Billy has been stuck being the only sane person on that boat for a long time, he deserves to get pissed every once in awhile. His life generally has sucked quite a lot, its amazing how well adjusted he is. 

[Garnett7]

I think it's been established that Vane can read/write. He wrote the anti-Flint note that was read on the beach in season 2, when Flint was threatening the fort. He wrote the letter to Eleanor that was attached to her father's dead body. It's far more likely that he wrote that and as opposed to one of slaves from Lumberjack Island he freed. I imagine Blackbeard taught him to read years ago.

 

As for him having Abigail write her own ransom letter -- Proof of life. Her father would recognize her handwriting and know that Vane actually had her and she was alive (at least when the letter was written).

 

I'm also confused on how Spain expects anyone to account for all the gold. They do know it's been in the possession of pirates for months now. Of course more than a little of it has been spent.

 

I find that I just can't care about the perils of Woodes Rogers. "Spain is mad at me, my brother's dead, I got a puny little scar, blah blah, blah". TeamPirates all the way. Make him suffer some more, please.

 

I kept thinking about how the balance of power has shifted since season 1 with Max and Eleanor. Once Eleanor had all the control and authority. But now Max has it and Eleanor is only alive right now because Rogers allows it.

[Triskan]

I'm also confused on how Spain expects anyone to account for all the gold. They do know it's been in the possession of pirates for months now. Of course more than a little of it has been spent.

 

Oh, I think they're just waiting for any excuse to rain down on Nassau...

[Scaeva]

Regarding open boats...

 

It's worth mentioning that Vikings, which were nothing more than pirates in an era before gunpowder, sailed from Scandinavia as far afield North Africa, Iceland, Newfoundland, and down the Volga deep into the heart of Russia...all in open boats. 

 

Ancient Polynesian explorers roamed vast distances of the Pacific ocean and colonized thousands of islands, all in open boats, some little more than canoes. There's even the intriguing possibility (not yet proven) that they may have even reached the western coasts of the Americas.

 

Captain Bligh, of Mutiny on the Bounty fame, successfully navigated a small open launch over 4,000 miles to safety following that mutiny.

 

I don't know what was usual regarding open boats in the era being depicted, but I can suspend disbelief and buy into Vane getting to Charleston in an open boat or Maroon island not being a stone's throw from Nassau.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Scaeva

[The Kings Foot]

1. The chambermaid should have been executed.  That she is still alive and giving advice is ridiculous.

 

2. Some of the pirates should have been signing with X's. Literacy should not be high.

 

3. My main criticism of Black Sails is that a. everyone talks too much and b. everyone talks to the same.  Whenever anyone wants to be alone  with someone to talk they say "Give us the room". Every. single. time.

 

Try some variety.  'Excuse us please" "Leave us" "I wish to speak privately" or just a simple head nod.

Edited February 23, 2016 by The Kings Foot

[The Kings Foot]

 

 

We've talked about how it seems unlikely that the island could be reached in a open boat unless it was very close to Nassau.  But now I recollect that Vane and his company made it all the way to Charlestown in open boats.  They didn't take Ned Low's ship when they went to claim the Man 'O War.  They couldn't -- they had to skulk off in the opposite direction from the harbor.  I always assumed  they got there in the same little boats they used to reach Nassau the first time -- after Charles rose from the "dead" and killed his nemesis.  So it's been established that one can successfully navigate a significant distance in the Caribbean and along the east coat of the Americas in a small, open boat.  

 

 

 

 

The issue isnt only that the ex slaves can reach Maroon Island from Nassau.   Its that Flint has also to be able to reach it from the Sargasso Sea without passing any other islands.  And for it to be off the regular ship lanes.

 

That pretty much limits it to the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and maybe  the Virgin Islands  .

Edited February 23, 2016 by The Kings Foot

[nodorothyparker]

It also has to be close enough that Mr. Scott could get there and back quickly enough not to have been missed in Nassau for prolonged periods.  If it's not relatively close Mr. Scott being able to shuttle what they need toward them and them subsequently needing Flint after the British have made Nassau no long an easy option also makes much less sense.

[Ravenya003]

I was late to watching this one, and it didn't disappoint! My brief and scattered thoughts:

 

Loved that the heart of this show is essentially the world's outcasts (women, POC, a one-legged man, a gay captain) banding together to stick it to The Man. That said, the movement is being led by Flint, who is essentially the Joker - at this point, he just wants to watch the world burn. (Difference is, we're actually egging him on).

 

I think Mr Scott will pull through. He didn't seem to be fading, but growing stronger. 

 

Loved seeing Eleanor and Max reunited, though it was also very sad: they loved each other once, and now I doubt either of them believes a word the other said.

 

Laughed out loud when the scene cut from Woodes's devastated face to Jack and Anne sauntering down the road together. But Jack - what are you doing?? Your reputation isn't worth a stupid pardon. Especially since...

 

... all that stuff on the Spanish ship. I was under the impression that the documentation would prove all the pardons being dished out would prove to be worthless or reneged upon, but that doesn't make much sense considering they were being handed out by the English. I just can't help but feel the pirates are being played somehow. 

 

Flint wants to find Charles Vane. Aw, yeah. 

[Neurochick]

... all that stuff on the Spanish ship. I was under the impression that the documentation would prove all the pardons being dished out would prove to be worthless or reneged upon, but that doesn't make much sense considering they were being handed out by the English. I just can't help but feel the pirates are being played somehow.

 

 

I think there are two things going on.  The British want Nassau because they want it, and "the sun never sets on the British Empire" and all that.  The Spanish don't necessarily want Nassau, but they want their gold.  Now, I was wondering how the Spanish found out the gold was in Nassau; maybe it happened when Max was exchanging it for the pearls and other jewels; but that's wrong because the Spanish knew that the gold was in Nassau; so somehow the Spanish knew where their gold was and I wonder how they knew.  

[ganesh]

Maybe they have more of an advanced intelligence network than we think. We've already seen one spy. She can't be the only spy.

[The Kings Foot]

I think there are two things going on.  The British want Nassau because they want it, and "the sun never sets on the British Empire" and all that.  The Spanish don't necessarily want Nassau, but they want their gold.  Now, I was wondering how the Spanish found out the gold was in Nassau; maybe it happened when Max was exchanging it for the pearls and other jewels; but that's wrong because the Spanish knew that the gold was in Nassau; so somehow the Spanish knew where their gold was and I wonder how they knew.  

 

 

The bit about wanting ALL the gold back after its been in pirate hands for months makes little sense.  They have to know a portion of it would be spent and lost. It only makes sense as a bargaining chip to force the British to give up something in exchange.

 

As an aside that whole bit about the pirate avoiding Spanish ships is nonsense. Both in reality since Spain was paradoxically the wealthiest and militarily weakest of the colonial powers,  and on this series. This whole series about the Pirates stealing Spanish gold !

[DarkRaichu]

I think there are two things going on.  The British want Nassau because they want it, and "the sun never sets on the British Empire" and all that.  The Spanish don't necessarily want Nassau, but they want their gold.  Now, I was wondering how the Spanish found out the gold was in Nassau; maybe it happened when Max was exchanging it for the pearls and other jewels; but that's wrong because the Spanish knew that the gold was in Nassau; so somehow the Spanish knew where their gold was and I wonder how they knew.  

The Spanish galleon on the coast was a dead giveaway or at least a reason for further investigation.  Galleons were big but slow and would not be the first choice for pirates ships (at least based on my experience playing the Pirates! PC game :P )

[ganesh]

Yeah, but if you could get one good shot off, you could disable the other ship. The frigate, of course, was the best ship to have. 

[DarkRaichu]

Yeah, but if you could get one good shot off, you could disable the other ship. The frigate, of course, was the best ship to have. 

With the correct wind, smaller more nimble ship could maneuver in and out of Galleon's blindspot to disable it.  Although boarding a ship with about 2x well armed crews is a different matter entirely ;)

 

Yeah, Frigate FTW 

[taanja]

I really really want a Vane and Eleanore reunion of some kind. Something crazy and brutal and fitting for their long history. Like I kind of need it for closure-- for me!

 

That being said-- I like that Woodes character so far. But I want him to have many struggles and problems trying to "tame" Nausea. And ultimately I want him to fail. I am on team Pirate after all!

 

Jack what up? Who gives a shit about your name if you aren't going to live to tell anyone about it? But I kind of like that Anne is like-- whatever dude. They have a strange relationship. There doesn't seem to be much passion between them. Or even friendship sometimes. More brother and sister like. No?

 

Looks to me like Mr Scott is on the mend.

 

I guess I had some kind of expectations about the reunion between Max and Eleanore  I wanted more emotion I guess? I guess I wanted that Woodes Rogers dude to see them/overhear them and wonder-- what the hell is their relationship exactly? ** disclaimer*** I try not to have any expectations for any TV shows I watch. I like to see how the writers/producers/creators have things planned out.

 

I am looking forward to more battles and pirates being pirate-ey. And isn't it about time for some good old fashioned lust/sex -- something? Naked bodies anyone?

 

 

[Tabasco Cat]

THE UGLY:

 

The mole on Idelle's face.  I guess she's alway's had it but damn, I never noticed it before.  The actress doesn't have one -- I looked.  So I think the make-up department just made it more prominent this season.

 

It was distracting. I found myself wondering what it must be like with 3 nostrils and lost my concentration on the episode. Had to re-wind the DVR a couple of times.

[meira.hand]

On 2/21/2016 at 9:42 PM, LadyPenelope said:

Quote

The tricky part, of course, is that I'm fairly sure it's been established that Vane can't read.  Who will he turn to to make use of those pages?  I'd say it's a safe bet that Flint WILL find Vane and that's when the pages will reappear.

 

Has that been established? I mean, I sort of hope it has, because Vane puzzling over words and trying to sound them out, while Teach stands over him and tries to help, would be delightful. But I'm sure we have seen him read and write? Didn't he write a sign to put under Ned Low's severed head saying 'I angered Charles Vane'? Then again - if he could only write one sentence, it wouldn't surprise me if 'I angered Charles Vane' was it. Or maybe Jack wrote it! So man

Didn't Vane leave a long detailed and very well written letter to Eleanor on her father's body when he left the fort to chase the man-of-war?