Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[Rina99]

Tom Mison finally comments on Nicole's departure.

[Enero]

Thanks for posting. That seems to confirm that NB was fired. 

I read another article with TM talking about Abbie's death and he mentioned how he always felt like the audience identified with Abbie and that Ichabod was the sidekick. Also he didn't sound very enthusiastic about S4. He was respectful and professional of course when speaking about S4. But I get the impression that at this point he's glad to be employed and here mostly for the paycheck. 

[Sparger Springs]

Most def fired. 

[Amethyst]

Thanks for posting the link.  As utterly disgusted as I am with how they treated Nicole, I feel bad for Tom, too.  He's gonna have to field all those questions about Nicole, and he's walking a fine line as it is in this interview.  He's clearly not gonna bag on the people who are paying him, but at least he's not fawning over their "genius", either.  The behind-the-scenes stuff on this show is insane.

I'm glad he acknowledges Abbie's importance, not just as a WOC, but as a grounding presence on the show.  Also glad that he and Nicole are still friends.  I hope they do another project together.  Their chemistry is just too good to waste.

Interesting how the decision to kill Abbie off only came a few episodes before the finale, if I heard him correctly.  Did that mean the writers didn't know that Nicole was leaving until so late?  I thought she told them at the beginning of the season.  Is this basically confirming she was fired?  That would explain that half-assed exit they gave her.

[catrox14]

Mison said that the way they changed Abbie's story to be moving Crane forward "a great shame".  He thought neither Abbie nor Ichabod were served by that choice. I think he is being as diplomatic as he can be without getting himself in too much hot water.

Edited June 1, 2016 by catrox14

[jhlipton]

5 hours ago, Rina99 said:

Tom Mison finally comments on Nicole's departure.

When you have a woman of color in the lead role, it’s not just a woman of color in the lead role. It immediately means so much more than that, across the whole of America,” Mison said. “There’s a woman of color in a position that not very long ago she wouldn’t have been. It comes to symbolize so much more. So when something like this happens, when they kill off said character, of course it’s going to mean an awful lot more, consequently.”

He gets it.

Meanwhile, it looks like Orci may be involved in S4.  Since he (and he alone) has been listening and responding to fans -- in a truly humble fashion -- if he is involved, I may watch.  He's another one who gets it.

This exchange is fun:  When asked "Why get involved yet again?"

 

[angora]

I enjoyed the fact that, while TM repeatedly mentioned Abbie being Crane's "guide," it was STRICTLY in the context of helping him navigate the modern world, and he never once alluded to the "fulfilled her purpose" BS.  Also loved his perception of Crane as being the sidekick.

So are we to take it the "Ichabod's backstory" that TM was never all that interested in and that the writers started to explore more in season is code for "CFD?"

[Watermelon]

2 hours ago, angora said:

I enjoyed the fact that, while TM repeatedly mentioned Abbie being Crane's "guide," it was STRICTLY in the context of helping him navigate the modern world, and he never once alluded to the "fulfilled her purpose" BS.  Also loved his perception of Crane as being the sidekick.

So are we to take it the "Ichabod's backstory" that TM was never all that interested in and that the writers started to explore more in season is code for "CFD?"

I think he maybe was interested in the idea, but it was clear in season 2 him and Henry(can't think of the actor's name) both had an extreme dislike for the writing of said Crane Family Drama.

[jenrising]

Great interview, thanks. Really interesting to see what he has to say with facial expressions. I won't be watching next season but I wish Tom all the success in the world. He's talented and kind and does a good job of toeing the line while making his thoughts clear. 

Or maybe he's just terrified of the horrible egomaniacal monster he used to work with. /sarcasm

[calibabe]

On May 31, 2016 at 11:15 PM, jhlipton said:

When you have a woman of color in the lead role, it’s not just a woman of color in the lead role. It immediately means so much more than that, across the whole of America,” Mison said. “There’s a woman of color in a position that not very long ago she wouldn’t have been. It comes to symbolize so much more. So when something like this happens, when they kill off said character, of course it’s going to mean an awful lot more, consequently.”

He gets it.

Meanwhile, it looks like Orci may be involved in S4.  Since he (and he alone) has been listening and responding to fans -- in a truly humble fashion -- if he is involved, I may watch.  He's another one who gets it.

This exchange is fun:  When asked "Why get involved yet again?"

 

Saw the above Tweets regarding Orci's possible return to SH and I was talking to a few friends who also watch it and one noted that they read somewhere that with Orci's return, if that meant further explanation of Sophie Foster's background. I was a little confused as to what they meant and my friend stated that in S1 Ep 9 Sanctuary when Crane gives Abbie the box that was sent from Lena Gilbert and he pulls out the family tree for Grace Dixon there are in fact Foster's on the Dixon family tree. So being curious I put the episode on and sure enough there is an Anthony Roberts that marries a Grace Foster. So when Ezra was telling Crane that someone from Abbie's distant bloodline would be the one that is sparked I wonder if it will in fact be Sophie? 

[TaurusRose]

Regarding TM's interview and RO's Twitter feed...

Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah.

Fool me once, shame on me.  Fool me twice, shame on you.  This changes nothing.  I. Am. Still. Gone.

[Julia]

I really don't see myself putting all this behind me enough to watch season 4, maybe until it's over, but wasn't Orci sidelined after season 1? I don't think either he or Mison has the power to fix anything while the same asses are in the writing room, but I don't feel as if either has abused my trust. 

[Indi]

6 hours ago, Julia said:

I really don't see myself putting all this behind me enough to watch season 4, maybe until it's over, but wasn't Orci sidelined after season 1? I don't think either he or Mison has the power to fix anything while the same asses are in the writing room, but I don't feel as if either has abused my trust. 

No, he wasn't sidelined. He and Kurtzman left, to make other shows (Scorpion, which was in direct competition with SH on Mondays, ha!). That said, both of them were involved in creating the shift to the CFD in S2, before they left. They were at the ComicCon that year and tried to sell Katrina's increased importance like crazy. Even K. Winter mentioned she had met with them, to discuss her role in S2 and she was ecstatic. Just because O&K "left" at the right time, it doesn't mean they weren't responsible for the S2 fuckery. They even thanked Goffman for taking the fall for the S2 debacle by welcoming him into their new show, Limitless.

Limitless was cancelled and FOX probably asked Orci to ingratiate himself with the angry fans, now that he probably had more free time. It has been amazing to see, how he went from sympathetic and understanding to dismissive of the criticism in the span of a couple of months. Orci never stopped being an EP, so he has never been powerless, except by choice. Furthermore, he stands firmly behind Campbell as the showrunner, and Albert Kim and Metzner as producers, while using the same narrative of "I hear you! But Nicole wanted to leave, so there is no racism or misogyny in the show!" He has abused my trust, as tiny as it was, as Goffman and Campbell.

[LeeLeePanda]

On June 11, 2016 at 10:42 AM, taurusrose said:

Regarding TM's interview and RO's Twitter feed...

Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah.

Fool me once, shame on me.  Fool me twice, shame on you.  This changes nothing.  I. Am. Still. Gone.

I have to agree. I'm glad Mison acknowledged why fans are upset and that he knows that what happened was a slap in the face. I don't begrudge him for staying on the show. It's a steady paycheck for at least one more year for him. 

I'm still not planning to watch next season, though. I watched because I wanted to see Abbie and Crane defeat evil together. I'd say the same thing if Crane had been the one killed off, and Abbie was left. The show worked because of the leads together. Without the both of them it's just another generic fantasy show. 

[vanarnd1]

On 6/12/2016 at 0:28 AM, Indi said:

No, he wasn't sidelined. He and Kurtzman left, to make other shows (Scorpion, which was in direct competition with SH on Mondays, ha!). That said, both of them were involved in creating the shift to the CFD in S2, before they left. They were at the ComicCon that year and tried to sell Katrina's increased importance like crazy. Even K. Winter mentioned she had met with them, to discuss her role in S2 and she was ecstatic. Just because O&K "left" at the right time, it doesn't mean they weren't responsible for the S2 fuckery. They even thanked Goffman for taking the fall for the S2 debacle by welcoming him into their new show, Limitless.

Limitless was cancelled and FOX probably asked Orci to ingratiate himself with the angry fans, now that he probably had more free time. It has been amazing to see, how he went from sympathetic and understanding to dismissive of the criticism in the span of a couple of months. Orci never stopped being an EP, so he has never been powerless, except by choice. Furthermore, he stands firmly behind Campbell as the showrunner, and Albert Kim and Metzner as producers, while using the same narrative of "I hear you! But Nicole wanted to leave, so there is no racism or misogyny in the show!" He has abused my trust, as tiny as it was, as Goffman and Campbell.

Thank you for sharing that information. I always thought what happened was that Goffman was left unchecked and totally changed the planned direction of the show, but it seems that wasn't the case. In some ways it is not surprising, as both Orci and Kurtzman had been in the industry for a while and probably think like many do that shows need something to specifically cater to the white male demo, a la Katrina. I wish they had given more creative power to Iscove, since he was not a Hollywood mainstay and was the creator he would have been more likely to maintain what worked so well in the first half of Season 1. Also I think it hurt the show that Kevin Reily was fired from FOX after Season 1, as he was the person who was greenlighting shows with diverse casts (such as Brooklyn 99 and Empire).

I used to think it was a amazing stroke of bad luck that this show had Goffman and Campbell as show runners back to back, but truthfully they still largest represent the mindset of the industry and it was statistically likely that whoever was in charge was going to do something to mess up the direction of the show. I think the thing that will always hurt the most is we saw a brief glimpse of what could have been, only to see it fall apart in such an frustrating and offensive way.

[Free]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Julia said:

I really don't see myself putting all this behind me enough to watch season 4, maybe until it's over, but wasn't Orci sidelined after season 1? I don't think either he or Mison has the power to fix anything while the same asses are in the writing room, but I don't feel as if either has abused my trust.

It doesn't really help since the problems are still there.  SH really reminds me of Heroes, a show that went down in flames post S1 and never recovered, they tried to bring back a S1 writer but the damage was already done.

[jhlipton]

I wanted to take Orci in good faith -- as a Cuban-American, he's seen bigotry first-hand.  And he did seem to get it, listening politely.  Until he stopped.  Now he doesn't acknowledge any problem and says that the FOX boss is GREAT!!!!!!!!!

[jenrising]

It's easy to take a principled stance when you've got no skin in the game. When it's about your money, it takes stronger stuff to keep doing it. 

[Julia]

SQUEEEEEEE!

Orlando Jones will be playing Mr Nancy (Anansi) in American Gods.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Julia

[Indi]

YESSSSS!!!

[cynic]

That's so great. I like Neil Gaiman and have been looking forward to this project. This makes it even better.

Also, I appreciate that this show stars a PoC, Ricky Whittle.Whittle used to play Lincoln on The 100. Apparently, he clashed with TPTB on that show about the treatment of his character and asked to be killed off because he found the situation "untenable". I hope this show works out better for him.

Edited June 16, 2016 by cynic

[Julia]

4 hours ago, cynic said:

That's so great. I like Neil Gaiman and have been looking forward to this project. This makes it even better.

Also, I appreciate that this show stars a PoC, Ricky Whittle.Whittle used to play Lincoln on The 100. Apparently, he clashed with TPTB on that show about the treatment of his character and asked to be killed off because he found the situation "untenable". I hope this show works out better for him.

I've heard good things about him, and he's certainly not hard to look at, but I was hoping for Jason Momoa :(

[cynic]

That would have been great, but maybe he'll be too busy with the Aquaman stuff. Shallowly, I love his look in the art for that.

I'm just glad that Orlando is getting such a juicy role in this. When he left SH, it was couched that he left for other projects, but he didn't seem to have much going on for a while. 

Demore Barnes from 12 Monkeys will also be in this. I remember someone around here mentioned really liking him, but I can't remember who. I hope they find out about it.

[Julia]

50 minutes ago, cynic said:

That would have been great, but maybe he'll be too busy with the Aquaman stuff. Shallowly, I love his look in the art for that.

I'm just glad that Orlando is getting such a juicy role in this. When he left SH, it was couched that he left for other projects, but he didn't seem to have much going on for a while. 

Demore Barnes from 12 Monkeys will also be in this. I remember someone around here mentioned really liking him, but I can't remember who. I hope they find out about it.

And if this goes well, the sequel to the book was a book about Mr. Nancy's family.

[netlyon2]

I've been getting more and more excited about "American Gods" and now Orlando's in it!  I have to reread this summer because I can't remember if Mr. Nancy and Media (Gillian Anderson) will have any scenes together and I reaaaaaally want that to happen.

Here are some updates around Nicole's doings:

A week or so ago, she posted a video of herself singing "Hotline Bling"; it caught the attention of Essence:

Quote

In a recent video posted to YouTube, Beharie sings Drake's "Hotline Bling" in a playful country voice. Now, we know she's just joking around, but we would buy that album in a second. Send us that SoundCloud link, Nicole! 

This weekend, she'll be participating in a panel discussion at the American Black Film Festival: 

Quote

Nicole Beharie will be on the ‘Black Women in Hollywood: The Future Looks Bright’ Panel at the American Black Film Festival #ABFF20 in Miami on Saturday, June 18th 

[possibilities]

Huh. There's actually has a whole bunch of "Nicole Beharie Singing" videos on YouTube:

[cynic]

Character information for Crane's new partner

Quote

Anna will be a Secret Service agent. She'll also be tough:

She's got a tough, take-charge personality, punctuated by a wry sense of humor. She's a born leader, but she also has a softer, more caring side which she rarely shows.

[jhlipton]

So just the same female character ALL these shows have...

[Free]

31 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

So just the same female character ALL these shows have...

Pretty much their MO at this point.

That and they're moving to DC while getting rid of some series regulars.

[jhlipton]

It would be ironic if Jenny was one of the characters they were getting rid of...

[TimetoShine]

Sleepy Hollow setting moving to D.C. and Daniel Reynolds and agent Sophie Foster will no longer be series regulars. I don't really care about the cast shakeups but I think it's very weird that they are no longer setting Sleepy Hollow in Sleepy Hollow. 

[Free]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

It would be ironic if Jenny was one of the characters they were getting rid of...

I wouldn't be surprised with the way things are heading.

[netlyon2]

Wow, this is so exciting!  DC is my hometown and we never have any shows set here.  How original!

O_O

[catrox14]

Welp, I called this move to DC. LOL.

Honestly I think they couldn't keep it in Sleepy Hollow and not be reminded of Abbie. I would not be at all surprised to see them blend with Bones in some way and then with Bones ending Not!SleepyHollow becomes Ichabod Crane: Colonial Timecop (tm me)

[cynic]

But...but...DC didn't exist during Crane's time, so won't that make the flashbacks weird?

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, cynic said:

But...but...DC didn't exist during Crane's time, so won't that make the flashbacks weird?

The funny thing is that SH as it was in s1 and part of s2 actually made sense in it's own universe. This move to DC doesn't make sense at all.

[LeeLeePanda]

Wow, they're really trying to make sure this show doesn't come back for a 5th season, right? Generic new partner who is similar to Abbie? Check. Ditch half the cast? Check? Move the show from its namesake location? Check. I don't know why I'm holding out hope that they will fix this mess. So disappointing. 

[Indi]

Nelson pointing: HAHA!

Sorry for finding this trainwreck so entertaining. Oh, hey! This Rosa MacGyver character sounds like she could render the character of Jenny rather pointless. I wouldn't be surprised if they announced Lyndie Greenwood is not coming back either. It would make sense if they want to erase all traces of Abbie's existence.

[Free]

1 hour ago, Indi said:

Nelson pointing: HAHA!

Sorry for finding this trainwreck so entertaining. Oh, hey! This Rosa MacGyver character sounds like she could render the character of Jenny rather pointless. I wouldn't be surprised if they announced Lyndie Greenwood is not coming back either. It would make sense if they want to erase all traces of Abbie's existence.

I think it's really telling how much has to be dropped because of it, including the town itself and that's the name of the show.

[cynic]

Honestly, after season 3, I'm not a big fan of either Jenny or Lyndie Greenwood as a person. I could do without her. Besides, the sister relationship was the biggest draw about the character to me and now that's gone. 

It is really crazy though how much the show has been retooled, especially considering it was already retooled once before. It sounds like it will be a completely different entity with just Crane as the only recognizable holdover. As much as I like Crane, I don't think this is going to work (at least for me). It's lost so much of its charm with the loss of Ichabbie, the Mills sisters, the Sleepy Hollow setting etc on top of the slow jettisoning of great original characters like Irving and Andy. And it's replacing it with a DC setting that we've seen plenty before, government LEOs we see all the time, generic tough but tender female co-lead, requisite "quirky" supporting cast, and, to top it all off, a "charming" moppett. Great. Just what I wanted on Sleepy Hollow, a precocious or maybe smart mouthed child. 

[Indi]

1 hour ago, cynic said:

Honestly, after season 3, I'm not a big fan of either Jenny or Lyndie Greenwood as a person. I could do without her. Besides, the sister relationship was the biggest draw about the character to me and now that's gone. 

Neither am I, but since I'm not going to watch anyway, her presence in the show only interests me in only one aspect: the lengths they'll go to erase Abbie. 

Quote

It is really crazy though how much the show has been retooled, especially considering it was already retooled once before. It sounds like it will be a completely different entity with just Crane as the only recognizable holdover. As much as I like Crane, I don't think this is going to work (at least for me). It's lost so much of its charm with the loss of Ichabbie, the Mills sisters, the Sleepy Hollow setting etc on top of the slow jettisoning of great original characters like Irving and Andy. And it's replacing it with a DC setting that we've seen plenty before, government LEOs we see all the time, generic tough but tender female co-lead, requisite "quirky" supporting cast, and, to top it all off, a "charming" moppett. Great. Just what I wanted on Sleepy Hollow, a precocious or maybe smart mouthed child. 

Well, since they are aiming for as generic as possible now, why not use a Spielberg obnoxious trope?

I think they should have gone all the way renamed the show and the main character: Ichabod gets a new identity, John Crane, and the show gets renamed to:

The X-Foils

The X-Fails

Sleepy DeeCee

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, cynic said:

Great. Just what I wanted on Sleepy Hollow, a precocious or maybe smart mouthed child. 

Yeah, I sincerely doubt this show is going to cast for, much less get, someone as awesome as Lucifer's Trixie.

[Free]

7 hours ago, cynic said:

Honestly, after season 3, I'm not a big fan of either Jenny or Lyndie Greenwood as a person. I could do without her. Besides, the sister relationship was the biggest draw about the character to me and now that's gone. 

It is really crazy though how much the show has been retooled, especially considering it was already retooled once before. It sounds like it will be a completely different entity with just Crane as the only recognizable holdover. As much as I like Crane, I don't think this is going to work (at least for me). It's lost so much of its charm with the loss of Ichabbie, the Mills sisters, the Sleepy Hollow setting etc on top of the slow jettisoning of great original characters like Irving and Andy. And it's replacing it with a DC setting that we've seen plenty before, government LEOs we see all the time, generic tough but tender female co-lead, requisite "quirky" supporting cast, and, to top it all off, a "charming" moppett. Great. Just what I wanted on Sleepy Hollow, a precocious or maybe smart mouthed child. 

With this new team and moving to DC altogether, I just don't see much of a reason for Jenny to have much of a screentime, because they've changed everything but Ichabod himself.

[Julia]

17 hours ago, netlyon2 said:

Wow, this is so exciting!  DC is my hometown and we never have any shows set here.  How original!

O_O

as a New Yorker I feel your pain.

[Dizzychickstar]

I'm honestly appalled.  I had no plans to watch this new season anyways, but what in the world?  The show was already moving away from its original premise, but this is just...ugh.  Too formulaic and too done.  *eternally shaking my head. 

[Julia]

I feel better. I was ready to be tempted to watch this - let's face it, Ichabod Crane, democracy purist, as a cranky DC bureaucrat is a great concept - but it sounds like they're planning an XFiles/Castle mashup, so not so much.

[Dizzychickstar]

One other name:  X-Follies?

[CalamityBoPeep]

Wow. Absolutely none of this is anywhere near tempting me to break my vow to myself that I wouldn't watch anymore.

Well done, show! Way to prove yourself completely irrelevant to my television interests!

[Free]

43 minutes ago, Julia said:

I feel better. I was ready to be tempted to watch this - let's face it, Ichabod Crane, democracy purist, as a cranky DC bureaucrat is a great concept - but it sounds like they're planning an XFiles/Castle mashup, so not so much.

Speaking of Castle, even ABC decided to end it before it continually derailed like this show is doing.

[netlyon2]

Even with all of the pain and anguish of this week's violence, the #shadyhollow dragging has resumed on Twitter.  My favorite from today was when a fan tweeted at Nick Gonzalez that she's still annoyed that we never heard about Luke after Macey was possessed.  His response:

Quote

Beyond annoyed and right there with you. Luke was done wrong, but, alas -- Past is past.

Edited July 8, 2016 by netlyon2
fix quote