ChelseaNH November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure that "they" and "people" are quite the same thing. There were people in the forums freaking out; I don't know about the fandom in general, let alone the twitterverse. Nonetheless, the complaints about the show haven't changed, so how does that support the contention that the writing (or the motives behind the writing) have changed? It's definitely a fact that Irving and Jenny have been marginalized, but I would say that Henry has probably benefitted more from their absence than Katrina, and Hawley hasn't done too badly for himself. Not to mention we're seeing a lot more of the Horseman of War (in more than one way). Edited November 10, 2014 by ChelseaNH Link to comment
phoenics November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 That's why I'm not a fan of attacking individual writers on their social media. If this show does get the the axe we could get the ultimate final middle finger in the form of an Abbie death or Icahtrina vow renewal. I think that saying fans overall were attacking that writer on social media is overstating it. The vast majority were not - and most made really good points that the writers refused to even comment on. Many of them are absolutely clueless (the writers) about the dynamics of this show or its fandom and it's blatantly obvious in how they are responding to well-founded criticism. They aren't responding. Instead they are being really nasty and immature about it, which is a shame. They're just shooting themselves in the foot and demonstrating a startling "privilege". It kinda reminds me of how Michael Bay wrote Mikaela out of the Transformers. I get it that he had an issue with Megan Fox, but the nastiness displayed to the Mikaela character in the 3rd Transformers movie was bad - why take out the frustration with Megan by trashing a character that many really liked? Sure she was a walking wet dream - but she was infinitely better than the empty shell they replaced her with (and didn't even bother to really update the script - because, you know, any female hottie would do). But yeah - fans do need to be careful - it's way too easy for the writers to dismiss criticism as due to "shipping" or "hateration" when that couldn't be further from the truth. Since last week, FB has grown REALLY, REALLY tired of Katrina - I've never seen a shift like that... all due to Deliverance. I don't think even a good "Abbie-centric" episode is enough to help ratings - if it looks trifling from the promos, no one will watch even if it is more like S1. Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) That's why I'm not a fan of attacking individual writers on their social media. If this show does get the the axe we could get the ultimate final middle finger in the form of an Abbie death or Icahtrina vow renewal. I don't think it matters at this point. Clearly, the show has deliberately deviated from what made it popular and turned it into a soap opera--a stupid one at that. So the writing--pun intended--is on the wall. It's sink or swim right now, and they've obviously and callously (looking at you Metzner!) chosen their path. Moreover, if they do get a chance to retaliate--assuming the show isn't cancelled--those fans who're the targets will already be long gone. Edited November 10, 2014 by Reese Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 The cast members (I'm not sure which ones) will be live tweeting during tonight's East Coast broadcast. Have they done that before? Beharie is apparently going to live-tweet tonight, but some people are like, doesn't it make more sense for her to live-tweet the "Mama" episode? But yeah - fans do need to be careful - it's way too easy for the writers to dismiss criticism as due to "shipping" or "hateration" when that couldn't be further from the truth. Since last week, FB has grown REALLY, REALLY tired of Katrina - I've never seen a shift like that... all due to Deliverance. I know Facebook was more pro-Katrina area - which is probably why the writers decided to insert her more into the narrative (though I believe it's other reasons....) But yeah, the shift is insane. There were grumblings in season 1, which increased after season 2 episode 2 (The Kindred), and the week before that with the ending of the "Abyss" episode, but the shift is insane. And all in one week. Most people here, and elsewhere are thoroughly disgusted and complaining like I've never seen before. Ever. Again, all in a week. It's mind-boggling. On top of that, I've never seen so many people jump "ship" - Ichabbie - in such a short time. Again, it took a week for people to say "uh oh, Abbie doesn't deserve Ichabod." Wow. The Metzner thing is mind-boggling too. I mean, he has written some movies (apparently Elektra), so criticism is bound to come into play no matter what one does as a writer, actor, director, etc. There are some nasty tweets to him, but these are people in a public arena - take the high ground and don't say a word. Instead, he's arguing with people in a public arena. He honestly should know better at this point. Link to comment
phoenics November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 I'm not sure that "they" and "people" are quite the same thing. There were people in the forums freaking out; I don't know about the fandom in general, let alone the twitterverse. Nonetheless, the complaints about the show haven't changed, so how does that support the contention that the writing (or the motives behind the writing) have changed? I fail to understand what you mean. Are you suggesting that because the fan complaints haven't changed that that means the show hasn't changed? I don't agree with your assertion. It's like this: when you first see a germ of an idea that maybe the writing is doing something and you worry it might be true, you raise a red flag. Well, that's what happened last season with Ichabod and that map and how that impacted Abbie. This season, that trend of Abbie being thrown under the bus for Ichatrina/Katrina/CFD got WORSE so now fans are yelling harder because well - now they KNOW this is a thing. The show, imo, has only dug its heels in deeper on the aspects that fans didn't like. The complaints haven't changed - they've now just become far more deafening and more precise in the issues they are bringing up. And now, whereas it was probably just Abbie/Ichabbie shippers who were sounding the alarm, now fans who don't consider themselves either are joining in. The criticism is definitely DEAFENING. Also - the producers/writers seem to think there was an overwhelming fan push for more Katrina? Where? If that did happen, it was definitely a small minority - cause ratings. It's definitely a fact that Irving and Jenny have been marginalized, but I would say that Henry has probably benefitted more from their absence than Katrina, and Hawley hasn't done to badly for himself. Not to mention we're seeing a lot more of the Horseman of War (in more than one way). The way you said it - as though Jenny and Irving just ran off somewhere and the show didn't know what to do, so they shoved Katrina, Abraham, Henry and Hawley in there to fill in - doesn't jibe with what happened. Irving and Jenny's absence wasn't created in a vacuum. It was created to give more screentime to Crane Family Drama (which includes Abraham, Katrina, Henry and Crane). And to give time to Hawley. My point in bringing up Irving and Jenny was to illustrate that I think their marginalization is the result of some retaliatory - or at least reactionary - actions on the part of the producers and writers. Definitely the increased focus on Katrina/Ichatrina adn the "suck it Ichabbie fans" stuff is definitely the result of retaliatory writing. Which is a shame, honestly. Not to mention childish. And that's why we're at 1.5. Fans know when they are being smacked around by the writers. They aren't dumb. Link to comment
savinggrace November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 To me the increase in Katrina screen time comes off like the writers trying to prove her worth. For some reason they really like her and were disappointed the audience didn't. The second season they have tried to rehabilitate her character but unfortunately it backfired because people still think Katrina is boring and useless compared to the actors who are getting less screen time because of her. Henry is a case of "be careful what you wish for." I wasn't familiar with John Noble but recall the fandom being all "Yay John Noble!" For some reason, the writers decided to roll with the fan love of this character while ignoring the fan hate for Katrina. They have given him way too much screen time this season. 9 Link to comment
phoenics November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Beharie is apparently going to live-tweet tonight, but some people are like, doesn't it make more sense for her to live-tweet the "Mama" episode? Maybe they know they cannot wait that long... ratings, you know... I know Facebook was more pro-Katrina area - which is probably why the writers decided to insert her more into the narrative (though I believe it's other reasons....) Facebook is definitely not as pro-Katrina anymore - and just from reading the posts, it's not even Ichabbie fans who are over Katrina - it's just regular fans. There are a couple of die-hard Katrina fans there (one I think I recognize from FF), but overall, folks are seriously over Ichatrina/Katrina. It's kinda funny, actually. But yeah, the shift is insane. There were grumblings in season 1, which increased after season 2 episode 2 (The Kindred), and the week before that with the ending of the "Abyss" episode, but the shift is insane. And all in one week. Most people here, and elsewhere are thoroughly disgusted and complaining like I've never seen before. Ever. Again, all in a week. It's mind-boggling. I was shocked too. Before Deliverance, on FB fans were clearly tired of the CFD and "over" Katrina, but after Deliverance everyone literally threw up a collective "HAND" at the writers/producers. What bothers me is that the writers/producers are giving Katia/Katrina all of these "chances" to win the audience over (and tanking the show in the process), yet Orlando/Irving and Lyndie/Jenny already won over the fans and they got sidelined for their trouble. It's not right. The Metzner thing is mind-boggling too. I mean, he has written some movies (apparently Elektra), so criticism is bound to come into play no matter what one does as a writer, actor, director, etc. There are some nasty tweets to him, but these are people in a public arena - take the high ground and don't say a word. Instead, he's arguing with people in a public arena. He honestly should know better at this point. Fandom has a way of teaching people like that a lesson. Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Facebook is definitely not as pro-Katrina anymore - and just from reading the posts, it's not even Ichabbie fans who are over Katrina - it's just regular fans. There are a couple of die-hard Katrina fans there (one I think I recognize from FF), but overall, folks are seriously over Ichatrina/Katrina. It's kinda funny, actually. I was shocked too. Before Deliverance, on FB fans were clearly tired of the CFD and "over" Katrina, but after Deliverance everyone literally threw up a collective "HAND" at the writers/producers. What bothers me is that the writers/producers are giving Katia/Katrina all of these "chances" to win the audience over (and tanking the show in the process), yet Orlando/Irving and Lyndie/Jenny already won over the fans and they got sidelined for their trouble. It's not right. Fandom has a way of teaching people like that a lesson. I think I read that Facebook had more pro-Katrina people, but maybe it's just standard fans or whatever. But here and on other forums, that is not the case at all. It's like a 70/30 split Ichabbie/Ickatrina - and I'm being generous with the 30. But the episode Deliverance, it feels like a bomb went off. People were willing to wait and see, and hope and pray for something to make them look forward to the future of Team Witness, and the development of Irvings and Jenny's storylines. But like you said, Deliverance was the "straw the broke the camel back." People jumped ship, people said "I'm not watching this anymore" and "I'm done." In just one week. This is so facinating to me in a twisted way. I agree about the "chances". I was on the Jenny train the moment she said "Are you Abbie's new boyfriend?" and she arched that amazing brow of hers. I was on the Irving train with Orlando's first shady look, because you thought he was evil. Katrina. No thank you. I cringe when I see her on screen, TBH. Now if she were revealed as being evil, I would have been all over it. All over it. I'm very interested in seeing what happens with the ratings... phoenics, you and I need to go hit a bar and drown our Sleepy Hollow sorrows in some brandy or wine. Truly. Link to comment
allyw November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 To me the increase in Katrina screen time comes off like the writers trying to prove her worth. For some reason they really like her and were disappointed the audience didn't. The second season they have tried to rehabilitate her character but unfortunately it backfired because people still think Katrina is boring and useless compared to the actors who are getting less screen time because of her. Henry is a case of "be careful what you wish for." I wasn't familiar with John Noble but recall the fandom being all "Yay John Noble!" For some reason, the writers decided to roll with the fan love of this character while ignoring the fan hate for Katrina. They have given him way too much screen time this season. I agree with this. I think someone or a few people (writer/producer etc) love Katrina/Katia and they probably don't understand why most of the audience doesn't. So their big solution was to give her more screen time without actually improving the writing for the character. And even though Katia may not be the best actress, the writing is the absolute worst. 1 Link to comment
phoenics November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 I think I read that Facebook had more pro-Katrina people, but maybe it's just standard fans or whatever. But here and on other forums, that is not the case at all. It's like a 70/30 split Ichabbie/Ickatrina - and I'm being generous with the 30. But the episode Deliverance, it feels like a bomb went off. People were willing to wait and see, and hope and pray for something to make them look forward to the future of Team Witness, and the development of Irvings and Jenny's storylines. But like you said, Deliverance was the "straw the broke the camel back." People jumped ship, people said "I'm not watching this anymore" and "I'm done." In just one week. This is so facinating to me in a twisted way. I've been involved in fandom a long time and I've never seen anything like that shift before. Fans who just last week (before the eppy) were ambivalent about Katrina now are really upset and completely "done" with her. The writers are just making it worse. I agree about the "chances". I was on the Jenny train the moment she said "Are you Abbie's new boyfriend?" and she arched that amazing brow of hers. I was on the Irving train with Orlando's first shady look, because you thought he was evil. Katrina. No thank you. I cringe when I see her on screen, TBH. Now if she were revealed as being evil, I would have been all over it. All over it. I was totally excited about Jenny the moment that happened... she just took over the whole scene... loved her. Adding her to the core cast just made the cast have more depth. With Katrina - the opposite happens. I'm very interested in seeing what happens with the ratings... phoenics, you and I need to go hit a bar and drown our Sleepy Hollow sorrows in some brandy or wine. Truly. We need a game for the show - everytime someone says "Save Katrina", Crane knows exactly who did what in the past related to the present, or Abbie is relegated to throwing shade because of CFD, we should take a drink. Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 I can't wait to hear what Afterbuzz TV's Matt and Jacque have to say about this episode with all of this focus on Hawley and Katrina. Link to comment
DeLurker November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 We need a game for the show - everytime someone says "Save Katrina" Also when they say she is a powerful witch. A boilermaker is required if she performs magic more impressive then sending a love note via raven or the post-it note security system of last week. 1 Link to comment
methodwriter85 November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 I pretty much went to "no longer watching the show" live after I realized the plot of Deliverance, so I'm not shocked at the switch. Sorry, I endured three seasons of Mad Men Loves Meghan and I'm not doing it again. 3 Link to comment
ChelseaNH November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Are you suggesting that because the fan complaints haven't changed that that means the show hasn't changed? I'm suggesting that complaints aren't evidence that the writers now harbor such malicious intent toward part of the audience that they are now using the show to mess with them. The way you said it - as though Jenny and Irving just ran off somewhere and the show didn't know what to do I'm not seeing how "It's definitely a fact that Irving and Jenny have been marginalized" translates to "they just ran off." Link to comment
phoenics November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 I'm suggesting that complaints aren't evidence that the writers now harbor such malicious intent toward part of the audience that they are now using the show to mess with them. No - the complaints aren't - the WRITING we are seeing now after complaints have been in play for some time are. I'm not seeing how "It's definitely a fact that Irving and Jenny have been marginalized" translates to "they just ran off." Hmmmm no not my point at all - I don't know how we're missing each other. What I'm saying is that the way you phrased it makes it sound as though you are trying to present the Irving/Jenny marginalization as if it just "happened" in some kind of vacuum. Like the characters just wandered off the writer's scripts and the writers were like, "Oh no... Irving and Jenny just walked off the pages of our scripts! Whatever shall we do?!?! Oh, I know... we'll use Katrina/et al to fill in for them until they decide to come back onto the pages of our scripts that WE WRITE. Thank goodness we just happened to have those characters lying around - except the one we added." Like the writers didn't WRITE Irving and Jenny off into little black holes and then GAVE ALL of their screentime to Katrina/et al. Katrina et al didn't just happen to take up time that Irving and Jenny just gave up. The writers GAVE them that time at the expense of Jenny/Irving. 1 Link to comment
BestestAuntEver November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 (edited) I pretty much went to "no longer watching the show" live after I realized the plot of Deliverance, so I'm not shocked at the switch. Sorry, I endured three seasons of Mad Men Loves Meghan and I'm not doing it again. Pulls up chair. I'm right there with you. I endured Mad Men loves Meghan as well as the Good Wife. I won't do it anymore. I started DVRing Mad Men instead of watching live & simply dropped the Good Wife 2-2 1/2 years ago. My theory on the fast turn around is people were already skeptical after the finale and Deliverance was the final straw. Edited November 11, 2014 by BestestAuntEver 1 Link to comment
maraleia November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 So this is what I tweeted to one of the EP's. I'll report back if I get a response from anyone on the production team. .@markgoffman what happened to the diversity on #SleepyHollow? Irving & Jenny are barely on screen this year. Also #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter 2 Link to comment
ChelseaNH November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 What I'm saying is that the way you phrased it makes it sound as though you are trying to present the Irving/Jenny marginalization as if it just "happened" in some kind of vacuum. The way I phrased it is "It's definitely a fact that Irving and Jenny have been marginalized." Which is the way you phrased it, minus "in favor of Katrina." Link to comment
formerlyfreedom November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Okay, let's move on, please. This is the to talk about Sleepy Hollow in the media, not to discuss the show or your own view of it in depth. 2 Link to comment
phoenics November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Back to the fears of retaliation by the writers (based on the twitter wars and comments in the media) - I still think that's happening. Although with the ratings for this week AGAIN at 1.5 they better think twice. The promo for Mama looked good but I don't think ratings will improve because it's too late. Advertising for the show like they've been attempting to do won't work if they feature the character everyone obviously dislikes (plus the family drama that comes with her). 1 Link to comment
DkNNy79 November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Back to the fears of retaliation by the writers (based on the twitter wars and comments in the media) - I still think that's happening. Although with the ratings for this week AGAIN at 1.5 they better think twice. If that's true about the writers, that's so sad and immature. They are only hurting themselves and the show. They've tried the Katrina as a main player role and its not working. Time to admit defeat and write another angle. Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Zap2it downgrades Sleepy Hollow's renewal index from Certain renewal to Likely renewal. *sigh* Link to comment
savinggrace November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 I hope the ratings will rebound after winter break when the show isn't up against NFL and all the other competition. 1 Link to comment
phoenics November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Zap2it downgrades Sleepy Hollow's renewal index from Certain renewal to Likely renewal. *sigh* Not good. Can't say the show didn't bring it upon itself. I hate seeing this happen though. If the show was living up to its most of S1 greatness you could argue the problem was lack of promotion and other similar stuff... but since it's changed its tone and focus, you know that's the problem. It's really sad, really. 3 Link to comment
methodwriter85 November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Honestly, if it does get cancelled, it'll be a show that's in a long line of t.v. shows that had good first seasons, and then went off the rails the second season because of unecessary and unwanted re-tooling. See: Witchblade, which had a kick-ass first season that included a lot of HoYay, and then next season promptly pointed out the heterosexuality of its characters at every turn. Tom Mison and Nicole Beharie will be fine, in any event. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 I hope the ratings will rebound after winter break when the show isn't up against NFL and all the other competition. shows usually drop in the Spring, not go up. Link to comment
marceline November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Entertainment Weekly has an article on "Six Ways to Fix Sleepy Hollow." I'm just grateful that the mainstream press is seeing what we're seeing. It's harder for the writers to throw around words like "haters." 2 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 (edited) Nice to know people are seeing the same things. Online complaints very often get dismissed as haters or shippers or whatnot but these 6 "fixes" highlight the same complaints I see here. The only difference is rather than the absolute get rid of Katrina or get rid of Hawley comments the article is more diplomatic. Edited November 12, 2014 by Morrigan2575 1 Link to comment
blixie November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Yeah I was glad to see the EW article because shit is BAD if ass kissing pop watch is actually gonna call you out. 1 Link to comment
benteen November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Entertainment Weekly has an article on "Six Ways to Fix Sleepy Hollow." I'm just grateful that the mainstream press is seeing what we're seeing. It's harder for the writers to throw around words like "haters." I saw this article. As much as I like the show, I can't argue with the list. I think each of the solutions is a valid response. I'd also add that it was ill-advised to increase the episode count from 13 to 18 with declining ratings and more filler. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 I saw this article. As much as I like the show, I can't argue with the list. I think each of the solutions is a valid response. I'd also add that it was ill-advised to increase the episode count from 13 to 18 with declining ratings and more filler. I disagree with this part....That cold open in which she and Ichabod (Tom Mison) sat transfixed by a Bachelor-esque reality show? Delightful! Let’s get more of that, please. No more, please.... Moar Jenny. Moar Irving. Moar Ichabbie. Moar Scary/Creepyness. 6 Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 (edited) Entertainment Weekly has an article on "Six Ways to Fix Sleepy Hollow." The Ichatrina cold opening made me cringe. Badly written, poorly acted (Poor Tom) and it sucked momentum out of the show before it'd even gotten underway. Let's not do any of these type scenes with them again. And I too hope the show resists any and all suggestions urging them t continue trying to make Katrina happen. She's not going to happen. Let. It. Go. And I hope Henry/Jeremy goes with her. He's totally overused and doesn't need to be Crane's son either. Be the Horseman of War or be gone. They do need to get back to the core four (and maybe even Andy and/or Luke). And please take Headless's head. Let him be a badass ax wielding bringer of death again. Edited November 12, 2014 by Reese 1 Link to comment
DeLurker November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 It just hit me that the little silly interchanges between Crane and Abbie have mostly been sprinkled in to the story so when they pop up, it usually is unexpected. Think the line about dancing in this same ep - not as amusing as normal, but I think it got bogged down by the general dread many viewers have about watching another ep of the Crane Family Drama. The Ichtrina attempt was right out the gate, similar to the yoga one. I was less amused with the yoga one - seemed like Show was trying to hard, but at least they were trying (thin I know). Ichtrina's dialogue just wasn't amusing - there's been no basis for humorous exchanges between the two, Crane does a dry humor well and good reaction shots (without mugging for the camera). There was no deviation in Katrina - it was her standard delivery of the lines. I keep using the word amusings - apparently my mental thesaurus is not working yet today. 1 Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 The Ichtrina attempt was right out the gate, similar to the yoga one. I was less amused with the yoga one - seemed like Show was trying to hard, but at least they were trying (thin I know). Ichtrina's dialogue just wasn't amusing - there's been no basis for humorous exchanges between the two, Crane does a dry humor well and good reaction shots (without mugging for the camera). There was no deviation in Katrina - it was her standard delivery of the lines. I keep using the word amusings - apparently my mental thesaurus is not working yet today. You know, thinking back on it, I didn't like the yoga scene either probably because they were still yabbering about Katrina. In the Ichatrina opening, Tom was absolutely better than Katia, but not at his best by a long shot because of both the poor dialogue and his acting partner. Until they get the show back on track (and Katrina free, thus no dialogue about her), maybe they just need to stop doing any of these openings for a while. 3 Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 You know, thinking back on it, I didn't like the yoga scene either probably because they were still yabbering about Katrina. In the Ichatrina opening, Tom was absolutely better than Katia, but not at his best by a long shot because of both the poor dialogue and his acting partner. Until they get the show back on track (and Katrina free, thus no dialogue about her), maybe they just need to stop doing any of these openings for a while. Last season, reviews mentioned that anytime the show switched to Katrina, the pace ground to a halt. This year, because she is so present, it's glaringly evident. That yoga scene is a great example. Cold open, "you're like what the heck is going on?", good banter back and forth. Then Crane sits down, looks all sad-puppy-eyed and Abbie says "Katrina." My reaction: God, not again. The dynamic now changes, the mood changes, we roll our eyes and it grinds to a halt. Change of scene, Ichabbie at a pub, Ichabod chugging a beer, the toast, Abbie amused and some friendly teasing. If it wasn't for that moment of mooning over Katrina, that entire cold open would have been perfect. And I noticed it in other episodes. Everything is going swimmingly, then Katrina is mentioned and the scene's mood is completely ruined. Now this is interesting. SpoilerTV also predicts cancellations. Yesterday they had the cancellation index at 2.33 for Sleepy Hollow. Anything under 2.40 is considered safe. Today, it's 2.31. So it's more safe. Hmm..wonder if that's a typo. 1 Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 ^You're spot on. I was intrigued at first with the yoga opening and willing to go along with the flow, but anything Katrina-centric just kills all energy and movement. And unfortunately, the annoyance I feel becomes my overall impression of the entire scene into which she's shorn-horned or even mentioned, regardless of its potential. The followup bar scene, being Katrina-free and all, did restore order and got the show moving again. Katrina is an albatross that will sink this show if they don't get a clue and cut her lose. Interesting about the ratings and the renewal forecasts. I thought the show had lost some of its traction due to the season low ratings of this week and last. Hmmmm. 1 Link to comment
phoenics November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 (edited) I disagree with this part....That cold open in which she and Ichabod (Tom Mison) sat transfixed by a Bachelor-esque reality show? Delightful! Let’s get more of that, please. No more, please.... Moar Jenny. Moar Irving. Moar Ichabbie. Moar Scary/Creepyness. Yeah - that was the only part of the article I disagreed with - no - NO more trying to make Ichatrina or Katrina work - especially by giving them "Ichabbie" scenes to try to do. It doesn't work. The whole charm of Ichabbie is the CONTRAST! Ichabod reacts - and Abbie side eyes (her side eye is like "Bless your heart" - sometimes it's sweet and other times it's cutting, lol) ... it works so well. That's WHY it works so well. Based on the comments I saw - a whooooooole lot of fans agree with the article AND us (especially about Katrina). I hope the writers are listening. Edited November 12, 2014 by phoenics 1 Link to comment
phoenics November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 ^You're spot on. I was intrigued at first with the yoga opening and willing to go along with the flow, but anything Katrina-centric just kills all energy and movement. And unfortunately, the annoyance I feel becomes my overall impression of the entire scene into which she's shorn-horned or even mentioned, regardless of its potential. The followup bar scene, being Katrina-free and all, did restore order and got the show moving again. Katrina is an albatross that will sink this show if they don't get a clue and cut her lose. Interesting about the ratings and the renewal forecasts. I thought the show had lost some of its traction due to the season low ratings of this week and last. Hmmmm. It was probably a typo. 2.33 and 2.31 aren't that far off. Perhaps there was a slight uptick from DVRs? But I thought there was no adjustment at all. What's sad is that after Deliverance - there was a 60% uptick... people DVRd a lot for that eppy. I think they hated what they saw - because this week? NO adjustment. So the live viewers watched and that's it. People who DVRd Deliverance (probably because they didn't know what was coming) dropped it from their DVRs this week (likely out of disgust). I'd say that is extremely telling. I think this show is toast. The writers pissed folks off enough that they've dropped it from their DVRs. Wow. Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 It was probably a typo. 2.33 and 2.31 aren't that far off. Perhaps there was a slight uptick from DVRs? But I thought there was no adjustment at all. No, the 2.33 and 2.31 index is SpoilerTV's cancellation Index for the entire show, not an individual episode. So they rank a show on how likely it will be cancelled. 2.40 or above means that is most likely will be cancelled. Below that, they think it's safe for the season. So yesterday, SH was still at 2.33 (same as last week) in terms of "Will it be cancelled?" It dropped today, but by dropping, they site is saying that it's more safe from cancellation. Zap2It went the opposite direction, going from "100% sure it will be renewed" to "Yeah, it'll probably be renewed...." That's why I thought it was a typo. After this Monday's low ratings, it would be more in risk of cancellation. If I understand it correctly, the DVR +3 numbers are how many people DVR the episode three days after it airs, so we shouldn't know yet the DVR numbers, because it hasn't been three days yet. Link to comment
LydiaMoon1 November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 I watch live, but after Deliverance I switched over to Jane the Virgin this week. I will watch the next episode of SH live, because it focuses on Abbie and Jenny. Still, if all I see in the preview for the episode following Mama are CFD and Hawley, I'm going right back to JTV. Link to comment
FierceAfroChick November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Does anyone know how many more episodes will air before the hiatus? Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Does anyone know how many more episodes will air before the hiatus? I think just three more - till December 1st. Then it breaks till January. Fantastic article by the Huffington Post. Where did Sleepy Hollow go wrong in Season 2. 2 Link to comment
allyw November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Despite the low ratings, the show is in no danger of cancellation because it's the second highest rated drama on Fox. Utopia, Red band Society and Gracepoint are pretty much dead, Bones is 10 years old and expensive and damn near all their sitcoms are tethering over the cliff. Link to comment
Miss Dee November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 HalcyonDays, I don't think your link works. It takes me back to this page. Link to comment
DearEvette November 13, 2014 Share November 13, 2014 Mo Ryan's HuffPo article is one of the better written critical articles that has come out in the past few days. it seems to encapsulate what a lot of fans and other critics are saying. Now that press has picked up some of the same complaints that the #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter hashtag was calling out, I wonder if the writers are now taking some of the discontent more seriously? I know Nick is somewhat unpopular, but I don't think his inclusion bears anywhere near the blame that the over-concentration on the Crane Drama 2 Link to comment
SnarkyTart November 13, 2014 Share November 13, 2014 I think just three more - till December 1st. Then it breaks till January. Fantastic article by the Huffington Post. Where did Sleepy Hollow go Wrong in Season 2 Link doesn't work? HalcyonDays, I don't think your link works. It takes me back to this page. Yes, that's where it goes for me too. Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 13, 2014 Share November 13, 2014 Sorry about that - the links were being stupid for some reason. Links updated and tested! If you get a chance, listen to the video below (it actually is audio only). It's good too. SH talk starts around 32 minute mark, for about 20 minutes. Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 13, 2014 Share November 13, 2014 (edited) ^That podcast was totally on point. The article was great too, but they really boiled down to its essence what's wrong with SH in the podcast. Excellent observations and basically everything many fans and some other reviewers have been saying. This is the article and podcast the SH showrunners need to read and hear. Edited November 13, 2014 by Reese 1 Link to comment
cynic November 13, 2014 Share November 13, 2014 (edited) I thought the podcast was excellent too and I agreed with almost all of their points. It's been interesting to see the several articles that have come out recently analyzing what's wrong with Sleepy Hollow. There are some differences, but many of the points are the same and they all agree that the show had taken a wrong turn since season one. It's mind-boggling that the writers couldn't see this for themselves in the planning stages of this season and during the filming of the first few episodes. If they refuse to see it now with the ratings falling, the viewers screaming in social media, and the professional criticism, then there's no hope for this show. Edited November 13, 2014 by cynic Link to comment
Grammaeryn November 13, 2014 Share November 13, 2014 Can someone provide a link to the podcast please? Thanks! Link to comment
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