S01.E03: Blood Ties

[henripootel]

Evidently the comics/Rip Hunter predate Doctor Who. 

Did they have the whole 'Time Masters' thing from the beginning?  I don't know the comics but I'm not surprised to hear the idea of time travelers predates Dr. Who, but I wonder if Rip stealing a time capsule from a governing group of 'Time ____s' came later, after Dr. Who got popular.  And I don't know about the comic version of Rip but this version does seem to act and dress kinda Doctor-y.  Might just be me, since I associate the actor with Dr. Who, on which he was pretty good, by the by.

[jhlipton]

I am so happy that this show remembered that Ray lost his fiancé and that was the driving force behind him building the suit.  .

 

That's fine. when his manpain prevents him from helping a team-amte? Not so fine.

 

Why couldn't they take Savages body and finish him off right then and there?

 

 

My idea: Shove a rusty spike up his @ss and into his heart until Kendra can murderize him for real.

One line as to why they couldn't do anything would have helped.,

 

The writers may actually just be writing characters and not writing based on color or gender.

I just always feel the need to push back on these things. I feel like any writer not just being allowed to write characters and being viewed a certain type of way because they don't write people of a certain color or gender in a way that appeases more people is doing a disservice to the writers and the characters.

This show does not exist in a vacuum -- it exists in a society with deep and pervasive institutional racism. It's always a good idea to remember that.

[nksarmi]

 

That's fine. when his manpain prevents him from helping a team-amte? Not so fine.

 

 

 

My idea: Shove a rusty spike up his @ss and into his heart until Kendra can murderize him for real.

One line as to why they couldn't do anything would have helped.,

 

This show does not exist in a vacuum -- it exists in a society with deep and pervasive institutional racism. It's always a good idea to remember that.

 

If you don't know Ray from Arrow, you probably don't know how new the "shrinking" is for the suit. What he was doing was risky as hell and it's very understandable that he would lose confidence pretty quickly and start wondering if he was going to kill Kendra by biting off more than he could chew.  I like that they are writing Ray this way.  He wasn't refusing to help Kendra - he just wasn't sure if he was able to help her.

 

My point was that I feel like this show is doing a better job of writing Ray's background and motivation and I appreciate that.

[Sakura12]

They are really writing Ray as a screw up on this show. In the pilot he messed up every time he tried to help. And I actually like that they are showing how new to this he really is. He was just a billionaire tech CEO before not a vigilante or a criminal. 

[tarotx]

Rip Hunter was a time master from the beginning. Or at least since 1961. Though I think our Rip Hunter is more a line with some of backstories of Waverider, who was created in 1991. 

[jhlipton]

If you don't know Ray from Arrow, you probably don't know how new the "shrinking" is for the suit. What he was doing was risky as hell and it's very understandable that he would lose confidence pretty quickly and start wondering if he was going to kill Kendra by biting off more than he could chew.  I like that they are writing Ray this way.  He wasn't refusing to help Kendra - he just wasn't sure if he was able to help her.

 

My point was that I feel like this show is doing a better job of writing Ray's background and motivation and I appreciate that.

 

Thanks -- I appreciate the info.

[ketose]

Did they have the whole 'Time Masters' thing from the beginning?  I don't know the comics but I'm not surprised to hear the idea of time travelers predates Dr. Who, but I wonder if Rip stealing a time capsule from a governing group of 'Time ____s' came later, after Dr. Who got popular.  And I don't know about the comic version of Rip but this version does seem to act and dress kinda Doctor-y.  Might just be me, since I associate the actor with Dr. Who, on which he was pretty good, by the by.

"Rip Hunter... Time Master" ran in comics from 1961-1965. Better yet, Hunter traveled through history with a man, a woman and a kid. Familiar, no?

[henripootel]

"Rip Hunter... Time Master" ran in comics from 1961-1965. Better yet, Hunter traveled through history with a man, a woman and a kid. Familiar, no?

It is indeed - good call.  Sounds like, at the least, there's been a good bit of cross-pollination going on.  Does early Rip wear a long jacket and look a bit like the Doctor?  I mean our Rip here looks more like the Doctor than does, say, Inspector Spacetime, which is intended as a direct parody of Doctor Who rather than just the genre.

Edited February 8, 2016 by henripootel

[Lokiberry]

Does indeed - good call.  Sounds like, at the least, there's been a good bit of cross-pollination going on.  Does early Rip wear a long jacket and look a bit like the Doctor?  I mean our Rip here looks more like the Doctor than does, say, Inspector Spacetime, which is intended as a direct parody of Doctor Who rather than just the genre.

The early comics I've seen with Rip show him as rather generic blond comic book hero-type guy. What makes it more interesting is that I'm not sure the Doctor was actually called a Time Lord in the first few years of his show. I'm no Who expert, but I don't think the Time Lords were introduced until the end of the second Doctor's run, which would have been in the late 60s.

[henripootel]

The early comics I've seen with Rip show him as rather generic blond comic book hero-type guy. What makes it more interesting is that I'm not sure the Doctor was actually called a Time Lord in the first few years of his show. I'm no Who expert, but I don't think the Time Lords were introduced until the end of the second Doctor's run, which would have been in the late 60s.

I think we're about to agree that everybody steals from everybody.  That said, if Rip regenerates into a different actor someday we may have to revisit this discussion.  

Edited February 7, 2016 by henripootel

[Racj82]

 

This show does not exist in a vacuum -- it exists in a society with deep and pervasive institutional racism. It's always a good idea to remember that.

I rather just enjoy a show on it's own means and not push an agenda on it. But, that's just my opinion.

[wayne67]

 This show does not exist in a vacuum -- it exists in a society with deep and pervasive institutional racism. It's always a good idea to remember that.

 

But isn't Kendra already getting the primary role in the mission? She's the only one on the Ship that is able to kill the villain. She's essentially the Harry Potter of this show. How is that sexist or racist or whatever? She has to be sidelined so they can drag out the storyline longer.

 

I always find holding art to a quota kind of disrespectful to the artist. It's like saying LOTR should have had met some quota for how many female main characters it had and how many minorities and so forth and so on. Shouldn't the main focus be the quality of execution and originality? 

[DigitalCount]

I rather just enjoy a show on it's own means and not push an agenda on it. But, that's just my opinion.

Unfortunately it's not that simple. For the most part, what this tends to mean is "and not push an agenda other than mine on it." Everyeveryeveryeverything has an agenda. It's kind of like the saying that if someone sounds to you like they don't have an accent, it's because they have your accent. Essentially, the prevailing idea that comes across in entertainment is that the stories of mostly male, almost overwhelmingly white (even when that doesn't make any sense) protagonists are the only stories worth telling. It reinforces the idea that white men are the norm, and everyone else is a deviation from that norm.

 

And I personally don't particularly care if the artist feels disrespected...? If Hollywood wants people to have faith in their ability not to be racist/sexist, maybe they should consider not being racist/sexist. As it stands, Kendra is the only one who can kill Vandal Savage, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the awesome adventures of Rip, Sara and Lenny will probably be center stage for the lion's share of the show. Kendra's not the Harry Potter, she's basically a MacGuffin.

[Danny Franks]

This show still isn't enough about Sara. It should be all about Sara! Well, Rip is okay so far. Arthur Darvill's performance has plenty of charm, as long as he's not leaning too hard on Tragic Past.

 

But Sara was amazing in this one. Not quite Sarah Walker, with the knives and the slinky dresses and the sneaky mission, but not a million miles away either. I like that they're making use of the dumb Lazarus Pit stuff, to give her more depth and more pathos. Caity Lotz generates sympathy almost as well as she generate chemistry with whoever she's acting with.

 

Ray is still boring, and the scenes of him in miniature just don't have good enough CGI to work. The last time I saw the 'shrink someone down to enter another person's body' trope was in Archer. And they executed it so much better. I wouldn't have minded if the ending had been the same here, and Ray had expanded to normal size while still inside Kendra. Messy, but a good way of getting rid of the second worse actor, after they wisely got rid of the worst in the previous episode. As for Ray, god, how needy is he? 'Oh, please remember me, Professor. Pretty please? I'm so awesome, honestly!'

 

The two guys from The Flash are a little less hammy and ridiculous, but still feel like they should be in a parody rather than a supposedly serious show.

 

If Vandal Savage has been alive and immortal for four thousand years, and can draw followers as loyal as these, why isn't he ruling the world? Why would he need to hide in the shadows?

 

I don't think the 'we're changing the future if we alter things in the past' trope ever really works, to be honest. I much prefer the idea of multiple timelines stemming from one common point, so any alterations made will spin off a new future that will be different, but it won't affect the characters who come from the original future. It makes time travel a little less paradoxical. But I do think the idea that Savage will seek out and kill Rip's family because of what Rip is doing in the past is pretty cool.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Danny Franks

[Racj82]

Unfortunately it's not that simple. For the most part, what this tends to mean is "and not push an agenda other than mine on it." Everyeveryeveryeverything has an agenda. It's kind of like the saying that if someone sounds to you like they don't have an accent, it's because they have your accent. Essentially, the prevailing idea that comes across in entertainment is that the stories of mostly male, almost overwhelmingly white (even when that doesn't make any sense) protagonists are the only stories worth telling. It reinforces the idea that white men are the norm, and everyone else is a deviation from that norm.

 

And I personally don't particularly care if the artist feels disrespected...? If Hollywood wants people to have faith in their ability not to be racist/sexist, maybe they should consider not being racist/sexist. As it stands, Kendra is the only one who can kill Vandal Savage, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the awesome adventures of Rip, Sara and Lenny will probably be center stage for the lion's share of the show. Kendra's not the Harry Potter, she's basically a MacGuffin.

Well, I quite simply don't care about any of the stuff that bothers you enough to let it affect how I watch tv. I wouldn't be bothered to watch anything if I spent that time clocking the lines spoken, screen time and how every character is dressed. Just not something I care about. But, again that's just me.

 

Back on topic.

 

One thing I was thinking about is that this show has to go through the growing pains of comic book origin stories. Which will hamper the progression of the show for at least the short run. There are many people that for whatever their reasons, pick and choose the shows that watch in the Arrowverse (or marvel's shows) so every time they start a new show that is connected to the grander TV DCU, they have to take time to reestablish the characters and their motivations. Sometimes more than once. I personally don't need this because I watch it all. So, those bits can be a little tiresome. It works sometimes for character purposes but not all the time.

 

Like, we got to go over Snart's complicated family history that I already new about. But, it also helped progress Snart into the hero he might become. At least for this journey. It also helped him bond with Jax which is plus.

 

The stuff with Ray and Sara for example feel like checklists they had to check off because people might be looking for those topics to come up or don't know about them. It didn't do anything for me because I feel like we've already been through this stuff. Hopefully, we see them work through these issues and not just make it something to look in on for a little bit. The actors did well with it I'm just saying that I rather watch them on adventures. But, it's like comic book movie franchises where the first movie is spent developing the characters and the rest are free to just be stories because the characters has been established.

[OakGoblinFly]

And yet Savage remembers Rory from 4000 years ago?  Even knowing that he 'alone is gifted with immortality'?  I know they're different characters and whatnot but they seem to be quoting every page from the Lazy Writer's Handbook.

 

So Rory fought here-and-now (or close enough) Savage to a standstill, but couldn't handle 4000-years-ago Savage (who was pretty new then) plus a few pharaonic guards?  Pin Rory's arms and all he can do is listen to Savage's savage ... monologging skills?

 

I'm not an Arrow viewer but I love Flash, so I know what good writing looks like in this universe.  I know I'm supposed to get a boner when Rory says he has guys who'll 'go through hell for him', but why?  I like most of these actors and the characters are okay, but in what way has the show earned this?  These guys just met, they have vague and conflicting orders about what they're supposed to do and how to accomplish it, but suddenly they're all Super-Friends?  Are they all bound together by the awesome power of cliché?

 

Not saying this show won't find its footing (and please get there soon) but I'm pretty underwhelmed thus far.  I guess my biggest problem is that basically nothing is at stake here at all. They keep pretending that the leads are in mortal peril but we know they're not, even the one who 'died' this episode is so firmly 'on the Wheel' that we know he'll just pop back up shortly.  The Big Bad has vaguely-defined super powers but can be subdued easily once you've slaughtered his super-duper (and super-disposable) henchmen.  The notion that he's almost impossible to kill is hard to take seriously when the heroes are literally standing around in the solution.  Time machine / space ship - drop Savage off on Mercury, let him cook / freeze there.

 

And is there any reason why they're not going back to 1999 BC and finishing off comparatively-inexperienced Savage back then?  If anyone's having trouble with the time jumps, park them in 1975 and take your killers.  Bam, done.  I know they can't do this cuz the show'll be over, but if they're gonna open these obvious possibilities up I'm gonna need some reason why they don't do them.

 

Also, Rory, when it's time to stab, stab, don't monologue.  I know it's a comic book trope but again, lazy writing.

 

 

Rory?

 

Didn't Rip go back in time to try and kill Savage?  I don't think Rory/Heatwave started time traveling until after Rip picked him and the rest of the crew up.

[tarotx]

Rory?

 

Didn't Rip go back in time to try and kill Savage?  I don't think Rory/Heatwave started time traveling until after Rip picked him and the rest of the crew up.

They mean Rip. They were using Arthur Darvill's Doctor who's character name to be salty since they think Rip is a rip off of the Doctor. 

[OakGoblinFly]

They mean Rip. They were using Arthur Darvill's Doctor who's character name to be salty since they think Rip is a rip off of the Doctor. 

 

 

That's highly confusing; not everyone watched Doctor Who and there is a character named Rory on the show (Heatwave).

[henripootel]

That's highly confusing; not everyone watched Doctor Who and there is a character named Rory on the show (Heatwave).

 

I've come to regret it.  'Rip-off' then? Doctor Rip?  While there's a good deal of stealing going on in both directions, apparently, I still wonder if Rip's long comic-book history is the only thing saving these guys from a BBC nastygram.

Edited February 8, 2016 by henripootel

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Jagged Little Pills Tear Up Legends Of Tomorrow
Atom races to save Kendra from the tiny shards headed for her heart.

[wayne67]

Unfortunately it's not that simple. For the most part, what this tends to mean is "and not push an agenda other than mine on it." Everyeveryeveryeverything has an agenda. It's kind of like the saying that if someone sounds to you like they don't have an accent, it's because they have your accent. Essentially, the prevailing idea that comes across in entertainment is that the stories of mostly male, almost overwhelmingly white (even when that doesn't make any sense) protagonists are the only stories worth telling. It reinforces the idea that white men are the norm, and everyone else is a deviation from that norm.

 

And I personally don't particularly care if the artist feels disrespected...? If Hollywood wants people to have faith in their ability not to be racist/sexist, maybe they should consider not being racist/sexist. As it stands, Kendra is the only one who can kill Vandal Savage, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the awesome adventures of Rip, Sara and Lenny will probably be center stage for the lion's share of the show. Kendra's not the Harry Potter, she's basically a MacGuffin.

 

So what about family sitcoms based on a writers life ? Like Everybody Loves Raymond. Do you think that show should have had more POC's simply to meet a minority quotient even though there would probably be no POC's to base them on in that writers life so they'd be tertiary characters which would get the show abuse for not having enough screen time and plot lines for their liking. 

 

For some people being white is the norm because that's their reality. As would being primarily around people with similar beliefs if you were of a particular religion. People tend to group with people of their own ethnic/religious/sexual identities. Like I hang out primarily with gay atheists :p So I can avoid debates on religions and discussions of women, sports and cars.

 

As for Hollywood and tv, their main objective is to make money, not make the world a better place. Hence the horrors of Twilight and 50 shades of Grey which portray really strange unhealthy relationship dynamics.

 

On topic though. It's nice to get further character background as I stopped watching Flash by season 2 Arrow by season 3 so I'm not really up to date on all the latest drama in this shared universe. I really hope Savage becomes harder to find in following episodes because it makes it harder to suspend disbelief as to his continued existence if he's battling these guys every episode.

ETA to make more sense.

Edited February 8, 2016 by wayne67

[jhlipton]

Well, I quite simply don't care about any of the stuff that bothers you enough to let it affect how I watch tv.

 

 

Aaaaaaaaaand now you know what "privilege" is!

 

So what about family sitcoms based on a writers life ? Like Everybody Loves Raymond.

 

That would be fine if not for the fact that for every black-ish or Mindy Project, there are a dozen ELR or Seinfelds.  Look at the number of blacks and Asians (especially black women) in lead roles and seriously ask "is there a problem"? 

 

Moreover, this is moving the goalposts.  The characters here are not cemented into any coloring, and in some cases, any gender.  Note that it's only when a white male character is replaced by a non white male that "I don't care.." crowd rapidly changes their tune.

[wayne67]

That would be fine if not for the fact that for every black-ish or Mindy Project, there are a dozen ELR or Seinfelds.  Look at the number of blacks and Asians (especially black women) in lead roles and seriously ask "is there a problem"? 

 

Moreover, this is moving the goalposts.  The characters here are not cemented into any coloring, and in some cases, any gender.  Note that it's only when a white male character is replaced by a non white male that "I don't care.." crowd rapidly changes their tune.

 

I don't care about the characters genders, sexualities or races as long as they're interesting. One of my favorite characters is a blue female plant off Farscape. I don't care about quotas. I care about an interesting and entertaining show. Some shows can get a diverse cast eg Selfie and do so seamlessly while others fail miserably at being a good show by trying to be 'diverse' and progressive eg Glee.

 

I haven't seen anyone complain that Jax took the place of a white dude. From what I've gathered most of these characters are based on 50 year old comics or a more recent show so it can be difficult to do the race and gender roulette well. Especially since they seem to be going by Star Trek rules and having a cast of 9 people.

[OakGoblinFly]

I've come to regret it.  'Rip-off' then? Doctor Rip?  While there's a good deal of stealing going on in both directions, apparently, I still wonder if Rip's long comic-book history is the only thing saving these guys from a BBC nastygram.

 

I'm all for being snarky, it is very confusing when you don't understand the reference point AND there is a character with the same snarked upon name.  ;-)

 

 

Why would they?  There have been stories of time traveling folk for hundreds and hundreds of years (heck the phrase "time masters" has been tossed around since the early 1900s).

Edited February 9, 2016 by OakGoblinFly

[henripootel]

Why would they?  There have been stories of time traveling folk for hundreds and hundreds of years (heck the phrase "time masters" has been tossed around since the early 1900s).

Depends on what you think they're ripping off.  I didn't think they stole the idea of time travel - old.  Or of time travelers going back to fix problems - also old.  Guy who stole a time machine and is now pursued by the Time Whatever Council - that sounds familiar, but as was pointed out to me, predates Doctor Who.  

 

Rip's general look, manner, and situation now, they look and sound pretty familiar.  Doesn't matter that H.G. Wells had a time-traveling hero (so the basic premise isn't novel), nor that Rip has aspects Doctor Who lacks (a beard, a dead family, and he's human).  I'm not saying this show invented the idea of lifting elements from other shows - looks like Doctor Who lifted too, maybe even from the comic book version of this very character.  I am suggesting that these guys did a bit of lifting of their own, not of super-original content nor that they simply xeroxed the character.  I mean Rip does have a beard, right?  Totally different, right there.  

 

But I remember seeing a clip of Rip standing on the bridge of his ship and thought 'Why is Doctor Who flying an Apple Store?'  Note, not implying that Apple originated their look entirely, nor that they own the rights to anything that looks vaguely like Apple Store, and I concede that Apple Stores don't fly or have chairs that lock you down.  It just looks to me like the set design was influenced by the colors and elements of an Apple Store, and yes, this show is hardly the first to do that.  

Edited February 9, 2016 by henripootel

[yellowfred]

So, regarding Hawkman (because this has been bothering me), I'm kind of wondering how, exactly, the whole resurrection thing works.  Like, have they ever died separately in any of their previous lives?  If so, do they then resurrect separately, or does the dead one's soul hang around until the other one dies?  That, at least, would explain how Kendra knew what was going on around Carter's body.  At the same time, though, I don't think they're the exact same age, so does that mean that one soul always hangs around long enough to keep their age difference constant?

 

Also, he died in 1975, so does he resurrect in 1975 (assuming his soul isn't just hanging out) or would he resurrect in 2016?  If he resurrects in 1975, does that mean that there's an extra forty year old Carter hanging around in 2016 (well, an extra Carter, at least; statistically, he's probably died at least one more time since then)?

[Sakura12]

They both have to die to reincarnate. They should be same age, but that is again a casting fail.

[henripootel]

Not to sound dumb, but they're reincarnated as babies, right? They grow up, gravitate towards each other, and then realize who they are?

 

If so, this is kinda horrifying.  I mean I like who I am and I'm not all that happy thinking I'll be taken over by what amounts to a different persona.  I'd be horrified if my child got basically got taken over by an ancient spirit, no matter how magical or well-intended.

[Danny Franks]

They both have to die to reincarnate. They should be same age, but that is again a casting fail.

 

If they were the same age, it would make the fact that one is "Man" and the other is "Girl" even more ridiculous and insulting. Though if Carter had been called Hawkboy, I might have at least been able to laugh at him instead of just thinking he was terrible.

 

They'd be better off if they just forgot about Hawkman, and quietly let Kendra move on from that part of her supposed destiny.

[Sakura12]

That's a because comics issue. They tried to explain it on Super girl. But that still never made sense for her to be girl and him to man. Then they made different characters and gave them the "woman" to have yet another excuse as to why their names couldn't change. 

 

The stripper costumes for female heroes is a both issue, however I'm not a big comic reader, does Marvel have that issue with the female hero names? The ones I know about don't seem to have "girl" after them. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Sakura12

[Danny Franks]

That's a because comics issue. They tried to explain it on Super girl. But that still never made sense for her to be girl and him to man. Then they made different characters and gave them the "woman" to have yet another excuse as to why their names couldn't change. 

 

The stripper costumes for female heroes is a both issue, however I'm not a big comic reader, does Marvel have that issue with the female hero names? The ones I know about don't seem to have "girl" after them. 

 

But Hawkwoman and Hawkgirl haven't ever existed at the same time, as far as I'm aware. They're basically the same character from different universes. Trying to distinguish between them is surely something only a scholar of DC's ridiculously convoluted, multi-universe backstories could do.

 

Supergirl I can sort of forgive, because there has also been Superboy, and they were both written as teenagers. Of course, Superboy gets to become Superman, but Supergirl never becomes Superwoman. They keep rebooting her to keep her eternally teenaged, it seems.

 

I don't think Marvel do have an issue with it, really. There was the Invisible Girl in the 60s, but she became the Invisible Woman when the writers grew up. And Marvel Girl who just became Jean Grey. There's Spider-Woman, but other than that, not very many Marvel characters have 'girl' or 'woman' in their names. Black Cat, Black Widow, Elektra, Storm, Rogue, Mockingbird, Songbird, Medusa, Wasp. Marvel don't rely on the 'Something Man/Girl' naming device nearly as much as DC do.

[Sakura12]

Supergirl I can sort of forgive, because there has also been Superboy, and they were both written as teenagers. Of course, Superboy gets to become Superman, but Supergirl never becomes Superwoman. They keep rebooting her to keep her eternally teenaged, it seems.

 

Except on the show on CBS she's 24. 

 

Thanks for the Marvel info. I didn't think I saw "girl" after their female heroes names. 

 

Hawkman and Hawkgirl makes him seem kind of pervy. Of course they kind of made him that way on this show too. He was always the one deciding everything they did. It would be better if he's gone for good but I know he'll be back. In the next episode

Kendra is slightly better but that could be because she's interacting with Sara and Sara makes everyone better. The actress is still weak but not being forced to rehash her epic love story again was what made it better.

[wayne67]

If they were the same age, it would make the fact that one is "Man" and the other is "Girl" even more ridiculous and insulting. Though if Carter had been called Hawkboy, I might have at least been able to laugh at him instead of just thinking he was terrible.

 

They'd be better off if they just forgot about Hawkman, and quietly let Kendra move on from that part of her supposed destiny.

 

It's weird but Hawkboy even with the same character would have been more tolerable simply because I could have spent the time thinking about how he's really pushy on the whole we've been in love for thousands of years and we're destined to be together routine and been giggling at what a silly super hero name he had.

 

I think Girl and Boy is more tolerable when they're children/teenagers than when they're adults. It just comes off as weird that they never update/change their names. 

 

I'm so glad I've never tried to keep track of the DC comic universe. It sounds ridiculously confusing. Not that Marvel is much better... 

[nksarmi]

But Hawkwoman and Hawkgirl haven't ever existed at the same time, as far as I'm aware. They're basically the same character from different universes. Trying to distinguish between them is surely something only a scholar of DC's ridiculously convoluted, multi-universe backstories could do.

 

Supergirl I can sort of forgive, because there has also been Superboy, and they were both written as teenagers. Of course, Superboy gets to become Superman, but Supergirl never becomes Superwoman. They keep rebooting her to keep her eternally teenaged, it seems.

 

I don't think Marvel do have an issue with it, really. There was the Invisible Girl in the 60s, but she became the Invisible Woman when the writers grew up. And Marvel Girl who just became Jean Grey. There's Spider-Woman, but other than that, not very many Marvel characters have 'girl' or 'woman' in their names. Black Cat, Black Widow, Elektra, Storm, Rogue, Mockingbird, Songbird, Medusa, Wasp. Marvel don't rely on the 'Something Man/Girl' naming device nearly as much as DC do.

 

Actually Superboy isn't really Clark Kent as a teenager - it's a clone of Superman.  Or at least, one version of Superboy has that background.  There is also a Superwoman in DC universe who is a villain - which is all the more reason to avoid using that title on this show.  Of course, Kara on Earth 2 happens to be named Powergirl so they seemed to just like the "girl" title for her.

 

Marvel is a little bit better with the names of their female heroes, but there happens to be both a Spidergirl and Spiderwoman (different characters).  There is a Miss Martian which I guess is still better than "girl."  Oh there is a squirrel girl if that counts? Generally speaking, they just seem to get to have better names than their DC counterparts.

[scarynikki12]

There's been a lot of off topic discussion going on.  This thread is about the episode Blood Ties.  It's not about race, Rip, or the comics.  Incorporating those topics (and others) into the episode discussion is fine but it becomes off topic when that's all you're posting about.  Please keep an eye on your posts and, if/when you find yourself going off topic, take it to the relevant thread and leave a post letting everyone know where you're taking the discussion.  There's already threads for Race, Rip and comics.  Embrace the other threads and your discussions will no longer be off topic. 

 

Thank you

 

scarynikki12 and MarkHB

[Delphi]

Depends on what you think they're ripping off. I didn't think they stole the idea of time travel - old. Or of time travelers going back to fix problems - also old. Guy who stole a time machine and is now pursued by the Time Whatever Council - that sounds familiar, but as was pointed out to me, predates Doctor Who.

Rip's general look, manner, and situation now, they look and sound pretty familiar. Doesn't matter that H.G. Wells had a time-traveling hero (so the basic premise isn't novel), nor that Rip has aspects Doctor Who lacks (a beard, a dead family, and he's human). I'm not saying this show invented the idea of lifting elements from other shows - looks like Doctor Who lifted too, maybe even from the comic book version of this very character. I am suggesting that these guys did a bit of lifting of their own, not of super-original content nor that they simply xeroxed the character. I mean Rip does have a beard, right? Totally different, right there.

But I remember seeing a clip of Rip standing on the bridge of his ship and thought 'Why is Doctor Who flying an Apple Store?' Note, not implying that Apple originated their look entirely, nor that they own the rights to anything that looks vaguely like Apple Store, and I concede that Apple Stores don't fly or have chairs that lock you down. It just looks to me like the set design was influenced by the colors and elements of an Apple Store, and yes, this show is hardly the first to do that.

I'm not so sure the concept predates Doctor Who, honestly. I think when Rip first showed up he was just traveling in a time sphere with his girlfriend and some mates. I don't think the whole master and lonely traveler of time started until around Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Taking to comics thread.

[BkWurm1]

Oh there is a squirrel girl if that counts?

 

Lana?  ;)

 

Back on topic. 

 

It seems that handing out magic life extending blood to Vandal's favorite minions is a great way skip having to age or swap out his henchmen. 

[ratgirlagogo]

Late catching up with this show.  Loved the soundtrack and the way the team is reluctantly beginning to come together. I realize that Rip is not Rory but the Doctor Who connection continues to enhance my enjoyment of all this ("Time Masters!").    Agree that if the show hadn't told me that was Cold's father, I would never have figured it out.   My time travel confusion moment was with the South African mercenaries - why in god's name was one of them BLACK?  Apartheid South Africa was the most insanely segregated country left on planet Earth in 1975 - the government was so paranoid about outside influences they didn't even have television there until 1976! - and of course their military was segregated as well.  If the show was going to do this it shouldn't have been so off-hand about it, since it would have been hard to believe for the time. 

Edited March 5, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[mrspidey]

Ok, first off:

Leipzig is not near the Alps. It's total flatland. Believe me, I live here. 

Second, in 1975, Leipzig was part of the GDR, so private banks? Not many of those around because of communism and state-directed economy. In fact, the last private bank was disowned in 1972. You certainly would not have had the luxury of only accepting deposits of 10 million at minimum. I don't think anyone in the country even had that much money back then. 

 

This is research that takes about 5 minutes of time on Google, which tells me the writers for this were extremely lazy. 

[Sakura12]

Sara and her knife fight was all kinds of awesome. I miss seeing Sara get an awesome fight scene almost every episode. I loved that she got to use her assassin training. Always mind your surroundings. I also love that Legends was never on a hero must never kill back and forth that the other shows have. Rip was mostly worried about the way Sara was fighting more than yelling at her for killing people. 

Then way to go Rip, for all your talk about Time travel rules. You broke the most important one. Sometimes time traveling is the reason is your enemy is your enemy. I did love Sara and Rip's undercover spy mission but that showed why Rip was a terrible leader. He never told the rest of the team what they were doing. He always wanted to keep everything to himself. What'st the point of having a team then? 

I did love learning that Stein was Ray's professor in college. I can see Stein not remembering him. He's got a giant ego and probably had a lot of brilliant students. I did like his attempt at a pep talk to get Ray to help Kendra and that Ray knew he was lying. 

They really emphasized the team fighting together this season. I miss that too.  These 3 episodes were better than I remembered. I mean really it's the Hawks and Savage storyline that was the issue. Everything else was great. 

[Starfish35]

The bad first:  This would be a continuing problem throughout the season, but them just leaving Savage’s body there and walking away was soooooo stupid.  No, they don’t have the dagger, but put him in cold storage, or lock him up, until they do.  I know they needed a way to spin the mission out longer, but this annoyed me the first time through and it annoyed me now.

Ugh at the whole creepy blood-drinking cult thing.  But loved Mick’s “hadn’t pegged you for the Eyes Wide Shut type.”  He has more jokes now than I remembered.  

Sara looks fantastic - loved both her outfits.  And kicking ass as usual...”how many knives do you have?” 😂

Leonard trying to save his younger self and his little sister. 😢 

11 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I also love that Legends was never on a hero must never kill back and forth that the other shows have.

Agreed - I get so tired of that.

Anna Loring....I had just about forgotten about Ray’s fiancée.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Starfish35

[scarynikki12]

23 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Leonard trying to save his younger self and his little sister. 😢 

He went about it in the best way. Sets it up so his dad would have the opportunity to make different choices rather than do a potentially catastrophic sit down and reveal all. 

[Sakura12]

11 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

He went about it in the best way. Sets it up so his dad would have the opportunity to make different choices rather than do a potentially catastrophic sit down and reveal all. 

Except for the part where he mentioned to his dad that he was going to have a daughter before she was born. Lol 

[scarynikki12]

49 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Except for the part where he mentioned to his dad that he was going to have a daughter before she was born. Lol 

Dad wasn’t too bright so I don’t think that made much of an impression.