Law & Order: SVU in the Media

Xeliou66 · June 18, 2020

Yeah Stabler being put in charge of a squad makes no sense, but the franchise no longer cares about realism. It’s another reason why I don’t think I will watch the Stabler show, and I don’t think the show is a good idea.

Jaded · June 18, 2020

I know Stabler was always a hothead with aggression issues. Having said that I hope they don't decide to escalate that behavior and turn him into NY's version of Voight from Chicago P.D......

Xeliou66 · June 18, 2020

30 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I know Stabler was always a hothead with aggression issues. Having said that I hope they don't decide to escalate that behavior and turn him into NY's version of Voight from Chicago P.D......

Please don’t make the Stabler show a clone of Chicago PD!! Voight and company make Stabler look like a saint to be honest, but if the show is all about Stabler breaking the rules and roughing people up, I won’t be watching. I’m hoping that Stabler has calmed down some and we see a more mellow version of Stabler who realizes he has to do things more by the book now, that would be interesting to see Stabler develop some in that regard. But I doubt the show cares to do that because it would require strong writing and sadly now the franchise chooses cheap drama over strong writing.

Like I’ve said before - Chicago PD is repulsive, period. And I worry that the new Stabler show will be very similar to it. I hope I’m wrong.

Xeliou66 · June 18, 2020

I’m usually good with these questions but I’m drawing a blank, I think I know the scene you’re talking about but I’m drawing a blank on the episode. I think it was probably from the weakest years of SVU (seasons 9-12) because those are the episodes I’ve seen the least of. I’ll let you know if I remember it or come across it.

CrystalBlue · June 18, 2020

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m usually good with these questions but I’m drawing a blank, I think I know the scene you’re talking about but I’m drawing a blank on the episode. I think it was probably from the weakest years of SVU (seasons 9-12) because those are the episodes I’ve seen the least of. I’ll let you know if I remember it or come across it.

Don't know why the OP was removed. I got to see it in my new topics email though. 😕

wknt3 · June 18, 2020

On 6/17/2020 at 6:39 AM, dttruman said:

I'll be honest, if I watch SVU and it's not good, I just might skip Stabler's show.

Given the inconsistency of last season if the quality of the SVU episode is what determines if you watch the new series you better hope there are no multi-week plot arcs to follow...

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m usually good with these questions but I’m drawing a blank, I think I know the scene you’re talking about but I’m drawing a blank on the episode. I think it was probably from the weakest years of SVU (seasons 9-12) because those are the episodes I’ve seen the least of. I’ll let you know if I remember it or come across it.

Seasons 9-12 are the weakest years in your opinion? They weren't my favorite by any measure, but compared to Season 18 they are Shakespeare, The Wire, Hill Street Blues, Sophocles, and Chekhov rolled into one. If you want to talk multiple years I would include the second half of Season 17 and Season 19 (which had some higher highs than anything in season 12 admittedly, but also didn't have the same quality of cast to distract from the low points which were as bad IMHO and much more boring.)

Edited June 18, 2020 by wknt3

Xeliou66 · June 19, 2020

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Given the inconsistency of last season if the quality of the SVU episode is what determines if you watch the new series you better hope there are no multi-week plot arcs to follow...

Seasons 9-12 are the weakest years in your opinion? They weren't my favorite by any measure, but compared to Season 18 they are Shakespeare, The Wire, Hill Street Blues, Homer, and Chekhov rolled into one. If you want to talk multiple years I would include the second half of Season 17 and Season 19 (which had some higher highs than anything in season 12 admittedly, but also didn't have the same quality of cast to distract from the low points which were as bad IMHO and much more boring.)

I agree that season 18 is equal in awfulness to seasons 9-12, it was a pathetic season. I strongly disagree about the second half of season 17 being bad, I thought season 17 was pretty strong from start to finish, season 19 was up and down but it was overall better in quality than seasons 9-12. 9-12 was just really low quality garbage for the most part with a bunch of ridiculous plot twists and personal soaps. And although the cast was larger, Munch and Cragen barely had roles in many of the episodes in those years, it was pretty much all Stabler/Benson.

wknt3 · June 19, 2020

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree that season 18 is equal in awfulness to seasons 9-12, it was a pathetic season. I strongly disagree about the second half of season 17 being bad, I thought season 17 was pretty strong from start to finish, season 19 was up and down but it was overall better in quality than seasons 9-12. 9-12 was just really low quality garbage for the most part with a bunch of ridiculous plot twists and personal soaps. And although the cast was larger, Munch and Cragen barely had roles in many of the episodes in those years, it was pretty much all Stabler/Benson.

I respectfully think you are overrating the second half of Season 17 based on how bad Season 18 was and how good the first half was. The second half was where everything we hated in Season 18 really started (Benson doing everything herself and the rest of the cast being reduced to sidekicks, doing the same plot over and over, Benoah front and center constantly, etc.) Leight still had enough clout and experience that the scripts were competent compared to the next season where it felt like they were shooting first drafts. I think we all have a tendency to forget how much bad stuff there was which is why Eid and to a lesser extent Chernuchin get blamed for what is clearly a decision by Wolf and NBC to go in a certain direction with the show. I think Season 19 is more debatable and more of a matter of personal preference. I didn't like the campiness so much, but at least there was a clear direction and secondary characters such as Wong, Warner, etc. What Chernuchin was trying to do is much more the direction I would have preferred, but it kept getting derailed by the star's ego. I liked the best epsisodes of Season 19 more than anything in the later Baer years, but overall they are comparably bad. Personally I liked them both more than the end of the Amaro grimdark period which I only watched when Donal Logue or another of my favorte performers guest starred.

dttruman · June 19, 2020

On 6/17/2020 at 7:57 PM, WendyCR72 said:

The same way Rollins (of all people!) and Benson got promotions? No way should Rollins get ANY promotion and no way should Benson be captain. But here we are!

I have a feeling you're right and since Warren Leight is mostly in charge, I also believe he'll follow the same format as SVU, where the personal lives of the characters of the new series will (or maybe) be the focus on each episode.

I can see it now, Stabler is in his therapist's office having a session where he's explaining how he has been recovering from the sudden deaths of a couple of family members and how he has accepted a new position in law enforcement to help him get over the depression that has beset him. Unfortunately, we will probably be seeing a lot of sessions in the initial season. Will the investigation of organized crime take up just one episode with a new one starting up for the next episode, or will an investigation take up half or many a full season? What I am almost sure of, is that each member of the team will have his (or her) unique personal problems and that each will probably be seeing the same therapist.

I personally don't like where this might be heading, and this series maybe following the same path as Law & Order: L.A. and get cancelled after one season.

CrystalBlue · June 19, 2020

If Stabler is in therapy, he should be in Anger Management Therapy.

dttruman · June 19, 2020

16 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

If Stabler is in therapy, he should be in Anger Management Therapy.

Probably to start out, but it's even been mention by Leight, that something terrible is suppose to happen to Stabler's family. So I thinks it's very probable he is going to need some grief counseling.

dirtypop90 · June 19, 2020

I’m of two minds. I really don’t want a watered down stabler. He wasn’t a racist or prejudiced toward a group of people based on an immutable characteristic. He hated pedophiles. He mostly slapped around white guys. He also brought a passionate anger that could be felt by the audience, that was relatable to the audience, because how could you be human and not angry at the perps for their heinous crimes. He couldn’t compartmentalize, not even for the sake of his marriage, that too was relatable.

I also haven’t liked Olivia in so long I really don’t want him turned into some version of her. And I’m hoping the svu crossovers will be kept at a minimum (one to introduce the show is my preference) I also hope he gets a kick a*s squad.

I get he’ll have to change his tactics, but he’s older now like Liv, so he probably physically can’t do what he used to, anyhow. I really don’t want to see a bunch of boring anger management classes and therapy sessions. Hopefully he’s completed all that before he returns.

Reading leight’s interview, I’m not sure it’s clear something happened to his family recently or in the past. I’m leaning towards something happening to one of kids around the time he left the squad that sent him off the grid or undercover or something, and he’s just getting back to town. I don’t think it’s Kathy because she was set to return in the suv finale and this show was already in the works then.

Olivia’s adoption of Noah made no sense. Her rise to sergeant did. But her rise to lieutenant and captain happened over night. So Stabler having his own squad after ten years doesn’t bother me. I lean towards him having been doing some work undercover and now running a task force most don’t want anything to do with because of the danger.

Edited June 19, 2020 by dirtypop90

wknt3 · June 19, 2020

10 hours ago, dttruman said:

I have a feeling you're right and since Warren Leight is mostly in charge, I also believe he'll follow the same format as SVU, where the personal lives of the characters of the new series will (or maybe) be the focus on each episode.

According to what has been reported and Meloni himself Matt Olmstead is the showrunner. Leight is busy with SVU and trying to get L&O: Hate Crimes off the ground so his involvement will be limited to crossovers and any set up Dick Wolf and NBC want to go with given the new situation (since COVID killed the plans to lay the groundwork for the series at the end of this past season of SVU. And of course he will be writing the scenes where Stabler is in his NYPD required therapy sessions to explain how the hell the character is back on the job after the way they wrote him off. (Yes that's a joke only 30 people on earth might get, but 10-15 of them are here so why not?)

WendyCR72 · June 19, 2020

1 minute ago, wknt3 said:

According to what has been reported and Meloni himself Matt Olmstead is the showrunner. Leight is busy with SVU and trying to get L&O: Hate Crimes off the ground so his involvement will be limited to crossovers and any set up Dick Wolf and NBC want to go with given the new situation (since COVID killed the plans to lay the groundwork for the series at the end of this past season of SVU. And of course he will be writing the scenes where Stabler is in his NYPD required therapy sessions to explain how the hell the character is back on the job after the way they wrote him off. (Yes that's a joke only 30 people on earth might get, but 10-15 of them are here so why not?)

Actually, your quip about therapy may not be far off, as I believe, despite Criminal Intent having a new fresh-blood EP for its final season, Warren Leight allegedly scripted Goren's therapy scenes with Paula Gyson.

(That's the rumor, anyway. I never saw him credited, so I'm not sure if that is actually true.)

dttruman · June 19, 2020

5 hours ago, wknt3 said:

According to what has been reported and Meloni himself Matt Olmstead is the showrunner. Leight is busy with SVU and trying to get L&O: Hate Crimes off the ground so his involvement will be limited to crossovers and any set up Dick Wolf and NBC want to go with given the new situation (since COVID killed the plans to lay the groundwork for the series at the end of this past season of SVU. And of course he will be writing the scenes where Stabler is in his NYPD required therapy sessions to explain how the hell the character is back on the job after the way they wrote him off. (Yes that's a joke only 30 people on earth might get, but 10-15 of them are here so why not?)

I thought I read somewhere (in the last month) that Leight was talking about Stabler making an appearance on SVU and that it would involve something tragic with the family. I think this is where I assumed that Leight was involved with Stabler's new series. My bad (again)!

5 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

I also haven’t liked Olivia in so long I really don’t want him turned into some version of her. And I’m hoping the svu crossovers will be kept at a minimum (one to introduce the show is my preference) I also hope he gets a kick a*s squad.

I get he’ll have to change his tactics, but he’s older now like Liv, so he probably physically can’t do what he used to, anyhow. I really don’t want to see a bunch of boring anger management classes and therapy sessions. Hopefully he’s completed all that before he returns.

Reading leight’s interview, I’m not sure it’s clear something happened to his family recently or in the past. I’m leaning towards something happening to one of kids around the time he left the squad that sent him off the grid or undercover or something, and he’s just getting back to town. I don’t think it’s Kathy because she was set to return in the suv finale and this show was already in the works then.

Will Stabler's squad be something similar in structure to the SVU, where a group of detective investigate certain crimes and report to Stabler in his office similar to Capt Cragen position? Will Stabler be a Cragen type where he spends most of his time in his office or will he be like Benson where he does some of the "Leg Work" too? I got so many question concerning this new series.

wknt3 · June 19, 2020

On 6/19/2020 at 6:08 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Actually, your quip about therapy may not be far off, as I believe, despite Criminal Intent having a new fresh-blood EP for its final season, Warren Leight allegedly scripted Goren's therapy scenes with Paula Gyson.

(That's the rumor, anyway. I never saw him credited, so I'm not sure if that is actually true.)

That was fairly widely reported and I believe it since the writing in those scenes seems like his style. I was attempting to suggest that they would do the same thing - bringing in WL to write therapy scenes to try to handwave away that they were giving a character a badge and a gun again despite the fact that he would never be allowed back after the way he was written off, so that they could bring back a talented and popular actor. I would hope that WL is too busy with his other duties to do more than say "sure you can have Mariska for a guest star spot. We'll do an episode focusing on Fin and Kat!"

Edited June 21, 2020 by wknt3
fix typos

WendyCR72 · June 20, 2020

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

I would hope that WL is too busy with his other duties to do more than say "sure you can Mariska for a guest star spot. We'll do an episode focusing on Fin and Kat!"

Ha! I think the earth would spin off its axis if the episode dared not feature Benson on SVU! A plague of locusts would soon swarm...

dirtypop90 · June 20, 2020

20 hours ago, dttruman said:

Will Stabler's squad be something similar in structure to the SVU, where a group of detective investigate certain crimes and report to Stabler in his office similar to Capt Cragen position? Will Stabler be a Cragen type where he spends most of his time in his office or will he be like Benson where he does some of the "Leg Work" too? I got so many question concerning this new series.

A structure like chicago p.d. is what I’ve been imagining since he’s leading a force. The happenings today will no doubt force them to cast diverse actors as well which IMO would be nice to see.

I can’t imagine they’ll put him behind a desk, not yet. Since it’s organized crime, maybe a lot of undercover work and less chasing people down. Did you watch Graceland on USA? I imagine something like that. A crew of 6 doing a lot of undercover work with an older head guy (Briggs) leading the way

I hope we get an interesting cast of characters. There’s been no news on other castings, right? One major way SVU has let me down recently is that Liv’s supporting cast has been weak for a long time; none our compelling characters IMO.

Edited June 20, 2020 by dirtypop90

wknt3 · June 20, 2020

10 hours ago, wknt3 said:

.I would hope that WL is too busy with his other duties to do more than say "sure you can Mariska for a guest star spot. We'll do an episode focusing on Fin and Kat!"

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Ha! I think the earth would spin off its axis if the episode dared not feature Benson on SVU! A plague of locusts would soon swarm...

My apologies. I do know better. An episode without Benson constantly front and center would be like a world without lawyers,,,

-fpLwli87-tB5YP1E0i8tM_F9Ds=.gif

dttruman · June 20, 2020

7 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

There’s been no news on other castings, right? One major way SVU has let me down recently is that Liv’s supporting cast has been week for a long time; none our compelling characters IMO.

When the cast has been systematically reduced to a bare minimum, and the new member is only asked to nod her head most of the time, while Benson and Rollins gab it up, disappointment is imminent.

CrystalBlue · June 20, 2020

9 hours ago, dttruman said:

When the cast has been systematically reduced to a bare minimum, and the new member is only asked to nod her head most of the time, while Benson and Rollins gab it up, disappointment is imminent.

But it's OK because they threw us a bone making said head-nodder bisexual! Not that there's anything wrong with it, but why do the suits and writers think having an LGBT character in every damn show is edgy and progressive?

dttruman · June 20, 2020

11 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

But it's OK because they threw us a bone making said head-nodder bisexual! Not that there's anything wrong with it, but why do the suits and writers think having an LGBT character in every damn show is edgy and progressive?

Just think if they had (like in the past) 5-6 detectives, an FBI profiler and ADA (both on every now and then), and an M.E. investigating a case. You can get everyone's opinion concerning the case with a little contention between the detectives with some kind of resolution at the end. Granted a couple of Divas will need to have their lines cut, but it would be a more interesting show than watching their little discussion in the squad room turn into an episode of "The View".

But Nooo, we have to have only two main opinions that have no bases for fact, but in the end miraculously turn out to be correct as decreed by the Fates (or writers and producers).

wknt3 · June 21, 2020

7 hours ago, dttruman said:

Just think if they had (like in the past) 5-6 detectives, an FBI profiler and ADA (both on every now and then), and an M.E. investigating a case. You can get everyone's opinion concerning the case with a little contention between the detectives with some kind of resolution at the end. Granted a couple of Divas will need to have their lines cut, but it would be a more interesting show than watching their little discussion in the squad room turn into an episode of "The View".

But Nooo, we have to have only two main opinions that have no bases for fact, but in the end miraculously turn out to be correct as decreed by the Fates (or writers and producers).

Two main opinions would be a refreshing change. Double what we have right now! There is only one opinion that matters and everyone else only matters to the extent they serve that agenda. They only thing that changes is who the primary sidekick is and the degree they allow the rest of the cast to do anything vaguely interesting.

Xeliou66 · June 21, 2020

And it’s pretty clear that they are making Rollins the #2 character, she got a boatload of screentime last season and it seemed like every other episode had a Rollins subplot, and it’s clear to me that Rollins is a writers pet. I’m sick of everything being about Benson and Rollins, but it looks like that won’t change, given Mariska’s heavy input on the show and the fact that Rollins is loved by the writers and the fact that the show wants to push a heavy feminist, super mommies agenda.

I like Carisi, Fin and Kat - but frequently Fin doesn’t get a lot to do, Carisi hasn’t been allowed to operate on his own as ADA enough and they still don’t seem to know how to use him at times it feels, and Kat hasn’t had much focus either. I hope in season 22 they figure out how to use them more, and give us less Rollins.

dirtypop90 · June 21, 2020

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And it’s pretty clear that they are making Rollins the #2 character, she got a boatload of screentime last season and it seemed like every other episode had a Rollins subplot, and it’s clear to me that Rollins is a writers pet. I’m sick of everything being about Benson and Rollins, but it looks like that won’t change, given Mariska’s heavy input on the show and the fact that Rollins is loved by the writers and the fact that the show wants to push a heavy feminist, super mommies agenda.

I like Carisi, Fin and Kat - but frequently Fin doesn’t get a lot to do, Carisi hasn’t been allowed to operate on his own as ADA enough and they still don’t seem to know how to use him at times it feels, and Kat hasn’t had much focus either. I hope in season 22 they figure out how to use them more, and give us less Rollins.

And Rollins to me is so meh. I don’t connect with her in anyway or care what happens to her. I can’t imagine she has a large following. If a large percentage of fandom wouldn’t care if your number 2 was replaced, you got a problem with your cast

Carisi doesn’t even feel like a real character with how little development he’s been given because we needed to see Noah in trouble again or Rollins and her second baby daddy.

fin got more quality screen time when stabler was there.

dttruman · June 21, 2020

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m sick of everything being about Benson and Rollins, but it looks like that won’t change, given Mariska’s heavy input on the show and the fact that Rollins is loved by the writers and the fact that the show wants to push a heavy feminist, super mommies agenda.

I like Carisi, Fin and Kat - but frequently Fin doesn’t get a lot to do, Carisi hasn’t been allowed to operate on his own as ADA enough and they still don’t seem to know how to use him at times it feels, and Kat hasn’t had much focus either. I hope in season 22 they figure out how to use them more, and give us less Rollins.

4 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

And Rollins to me is so meh. I don’t connect with her in anyway or care what happens to her. I can’t imagine she has a large following. If a large percentage of fandom wouldn’t care if your number 2 was replaced, you got a problem with your cast

Carisi doesn’t even feel like a real character with how little development he’s been given because we needed to see Noah in trouble again or Rollins and her second baby daddy.

I wonder if it's just a couple of small but dedicated (almost fanatical) fan clubs that keeps putting the pressure on the producers to focus on Benson and Rollins?

IMO, it's inexcusable to limit Fin's appearances, because his objective point of view keeps the investigations grounded. I also think the writers (and producers) planned it this way so Hargitay and Giddish can test their range of emotions and it's definitely not working. I think someone mentioned a while back that they were trying to set Hargitay up for a Emmy nomination.

Was there any mention of Garland being written out or if hopefully possible, his character will be expanded?

CrystalBlue · June 21, 2020

2 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I wonder if it's just a couple of small but dedicated (almost fanatical) fan clubs that keeps putting the pressure on the producers to focus on Benson and Rollins?

IMO, it's inexcusable to limit Fin's appearances, because his objective point of view keeps the investigations grounded. I also think the writers (and producers) planned it this way so Hargitay and Giddish can test their range of emotions and it's definitely not working. I think someone mentioned a while back that they were trying to set Hargitay up for a Emmy nomination.

Was there any mention of Garland being written out or if hopefully possible, his character will be expanded?

They have a range of emotions? News to me! 😄

If they can't expand Carisi, how are they going to expand Garland? It's the St. Olivia and Her Trainwreck Sidekick Show now.

Maybe the Stabler Show will be a success and Carisi and Fin can cross over to there!

wknt3 · June 21, 2020

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And it’s pretty clear that they are making Rollins the #2 character, she got a boatload of screentime last season and it seemed like every other episode had a Rollins subplot, and it’s clear to me that Rollins is a writers pet. I’m sick of everything being about Benson and Rollins, but it looks like that won’t change, given Mariska’s heavy input on the show and the fact that Rollins is loved by the writers and the fact that the show wants to push a heavy feminist, super mommies agenda.

I like Carisi, Fin and Kat - but frequently Fin doesn’t get a lot to do, Carisi hasn’t been allowed to operate on his own as ADA enough and they still don’t seem to know how to use him at times it feels, and Kat hasn’t had much focus either. I hope in season 22 they figure out how to use them more, and give us less Rollins.

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

I wonder if it's just a couple of small but dedicated (almost fanatical) fan clubs that keeps putting the pressure on the producers to focus on Benson and Rollins?

IMO, it's inexcusable to limit Fin's appearances, because his objective point of view keeps the investigations grounded. I also think the writers (and producers) planned it this way so Hargitay and Giddish can test their range of emotions and it's definitely not working. I think someone mentioned a while back that they were trying to set Hargitay up for a Emmy nomination.

I don't think it's the fans that has lead to Rollins becoming #2 on the call sheet. If it was it would be much more excusable. Heck it would be better and more understandable if I believed it was a deliberate (if misguided) creative choice, but I think it's more about laziness and lack of effort. Leight loves him some family issues and Mariska really seems to believe that they are saying something profound about the difficulties of being a working mother. Plus the idea that Rollins and Benson would bond over that shared experience seems to be one of few changes Chernuchin made that she liked. Given that making the series watchable is all about managing and containing MH's ego these days it is definitely easier to stick with spreading out the field work as they have done and allowing other characters to have critical insights while Rollins and Benson do most of the interrogations and almost all of the personal interaction.

There is also the fact that given how all the map they have written Rollins in the past, they can slot her into any plot requirement without worrying about it seeming OOC. She can identify with almost any victim too much or too little and take just about any ideological perspective and they can pretty much always find something to justify it.

Finally there is a certain process of elimination quality to it. Ice-T has limited his screen time instead of getting raises so even though he is #2 for PR purposes and in the mind of the general audience he is not going to get the material we might want. They have boxed themselves in a bit by making Carisi the ADA since Leight doesn't do courtroom scenes and their go to move for Benson/ADA interactions is a no go even for this crew. Does anyone want to see UST between Liv and Carisi???? So he's been backgrounded a bit. And I like Kat and a new detective was much needed and is much appreciated, but I don't want to see them pull a Chester Lake.

Edited June 21, 2020 by wknt3
ducking autocorrect...

Xeliou66 · June 21, 2020

Carisi is their best character IMO, so I’m really hoping in season 22 he gets more of a role and they define his role as ADA more clearly now that he’s been there for a year and has experience under his belt. I know Warren doesn’t care for courtroom scenes, but he put that aside and wrote some good courtroom cases for Barba during his first tenure as showrunner, so that gives me hope he can do the same for Carisi in the future. So I’m really hoping that we get more of Carisi and more legal stuff in season 22.

Also, I would like some more tension between Carisi and the squad, particularly Benson. Some tension between the SVU squad and the ADA helps the show, and they don’t seem to know how to do that now, they’ve had their last 2 ADA’s fall in love with St Olivia basically, I’m pretty sure they won’t do that with Carisi but they don’t seem to know what to do there, I want to see more clashes between the squad, particularly Benson, and Carisi, the only time there was really any tension between the squad and Carisi last season was when he chewed Kat out for breaking the rules, that was it. I would love for Carisi and Benson to have a major argument over a case and Carisi telling Benson he doesn’t work for her anymore, that would be awesome!!

They didn’t really seem to know how to use Carisi last year, I’m hoping they get a better grip on it in season 22.

dttruman · June 21, 2020

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

They have a range of emotions? News to me! 😄

That was a bad description on my part. I should have said it that they were giving Benson and Rollins more chances to react to different types of situations concerning the crimes.

Granted, they didn't take advantage of their opportunities, but considering the quality of the premise and the writing, they had a lot to over come. But then a very high-up executive producer for the show could have allocated more money for each episode to increase the quality. Bottom line, someone cared more about the amount of their paycheck than the quality of the show.

4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

They have boxed themselves in a bit by making Carisi the ADA since Leight doesn't do courtroom scenes and their go to move for Benson/ADA interactions is a no go even for this crew. Does anyone want to see UST between Liv and Carisi???? So he's been backgrounded a bit. And I like Kat and a new detective was much needed and is much appreciated, but I don't want to see them pull a Chester Lake.

I don't want to see another Lake situation either, but since Hyder doesn't have the resume of Beach. I think they just signed him for one season anyway. I believe she'll be around for a while unless they get rid of her unceremoniously like some others.

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Carisi is their best character IMO, so I’m really hoping in season 22 he gets more of a role and they define his role as ADA more clearly now that he’s been there for a year and has experience under his belt. I know Warren doesn’t care for courtroom scenes, but he put that aside and wrote some good courtroom cases for Barba during his first tenure as showrunner,

I am just speaking from the expense side of the show, but if they have more courtroom scenes, it will mean less on location shoots and more time on set, which is cheaper. So maybe this will appeal to their wallets.

wknt3 · June 22, 2020

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Carisi is their best character IMO, so I’m really hoping in season 22 he gets more of a role and they define his role as ADA more clearly now that he’s been there for a year and has experience under his belt. I know Warren doesn’t care for courtroom scenes, but he put that aside and wrote some good courtroom cases for Barba during his first tenure as showrunner, so that gives me hope he can do the same for Carisi in the future. So I’m really hoping that we get more of Carisi and more legal stuff in season 22.

Also, I would like some more tension between Carisi and the squad, particularly Benson. Some tension between the SVU squad and the ADA helps the show, and they don’t seem to know how to do that now, they’ve had their last 2 ADA’s fall in love with St Olivia basically, I’m pretty sure they won’t do that with Carisi but they don’t seem to know what to do there, I want to see more clashes between the squad, particularly Benson, and Carisi, the only time there was really any tension between the squad and Carisi last season was when he chewed Kat out for breaking the rules, that was it. I would love for Carisi and Benson to have a major argument over a case and Carisi telling Benson he doesn’t work for her anymore, that would be awesome!!

They didn’t really seem to know how to use Carisi last year, I’m hoping they get a better grip on it in season 22.

I agree that there is a lot of wasted potential with Carisi. There are tons of stories that could be done, Most importantly there are NEW and DIFFERENT stories that could be done which is a rare and precious commodity for a show that has been on for 147 years. Instead of bringing in an evil boss I would love to see Carisi dealing with the different role of prosecutor instead of cop and having to tell his colleagues and friends no. I would love to see him fail too and give in to pressure and his instincts as a police investigator and have to grapple with a perp getting off scot free because he went with his heart instead of his head.

The problem is that they have spent so long saying that the squad is always on the side of right and anyone who insists on following the law is at best misguided and doesn't understand victims that writing him as an officer of the court defending due process conflicts with his portrayal as a nice guy and the most morally upright member of the "family". With the exception of Benson, blessings and peace be upon her, who is the messenger of the almighty and the source of all truth and righteousness. So they can't follow the formula they always have with the ADAs where they start off in conflict and eventually become part of the team willing to do whatever is necessary to put away the pervs, laws be damned. They used to play this out over 5 years or so, then it became a year or two for Barba and half a season for Stone. So that is out and their other crutch (teasing UST) is unavailable there aren't a lot of options left besides the way they went.

Xeliou66 · June 22, 2020

10 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

I agree that there is a lot of wasted potential with Carisi. There are tons of stories that could be done, Most importantly there are NEW and DIFFERENT stories that could be done which is a rare and precious commodity for a show that has been on for 147 years. Instead of bringing in an evil boss I would love to see Carisi dealing with the different role of prosecutor instead of cop and having to tell his colleagues and friends no. I would love to see him fail too and give in to pressure and his instincts as a police investigator and have to grapple with a perp getting off scot free because he went with his heart instead of his head.

The problem is that they have spent so long saying that the squad is always on the side of right and anyone who insists on following the law is at best misguided and doesn't understand victims that writing him as an officer of the court defending due process conflicts with his portrayal as a nice guy and the most morally upright member of the "family". With the exception of Benson, blessings and peace be upon her, who is the messenger of the almighty and the source of all truth and righteousness. So they can't follow the formula they always have with the ADAs where they start off in conflict and eventually become part of the team willing to do whatever is necessary to put away the pervs, laws be damned. They used to play this out over 5 years or so, then it became a year or two for Barba and half a season for Stone. So that is out and their other crutch (teasing UST) is unavailable there aren't a lot of options left besides the way they went.

I don’t exactly agree that they don’t have options with Carisi - he’s an interesting character and they can have it where he’s in more conflict with the squad at times or explore how he’s adjusting to being an ADA and not a detective, and most importantly they can write interesting court cases for him to prosecute, like I say, Warren and company wrote some good material for Barba, so they are clearly capable of writing decent legal material even if it’s not Warren’s favorite thing.

Instead they seemed to struggle with what to do with Carisi last season, even though his transition to being an ADA went fairly well and he was good in the role. Introducing Hadid was a terrible move, she’s a wooden cliche, horribly written and even more horribly acted, and they managed to take a big fat dump on the whole DA’s office in the process. There was virtually no conflict between Carisi and the squad, especially Benson, in fact the few times there was conflict it was Fin, Rollins or Kat complaining about something to Carisi and Benson coming to Carisi’s defense. So while I was pleased with Carisi’s transition into the role, they could do a better job writing different storylines regarding it, and I’m hopeful we will have more courtroom scenes next season. And please, let’s ditch Hadid and stop crapping on the DA’s office.

I did hear that they were going to explore the Carisi/Benson relationship more and how it’s changed in one of the final 4 episodes that were scrapped due to the virus, so I hope they remember to explore that next season.

CrystalBlue · June 22, 2020

@ wknt3 I see what you did there, 147 years. Bow Wow!

Edited June 22, 2020 by CrystalBlue

dirtypop90 · June 22, 2020

Carisi/Rollins made me indifferent to Carisi. Carisi going gaga for Rollins who screwed another cop in the squad and created two babies from different guys while he was there made him look rather well...pathetic. Maybe they thought they were doing some feminist story telling by having Carisi not care about that and so willing to help Rollins with her babies and whatever ever else she needed while into her. But it’s so unbelievable he would be into her it turned me away from the character. He became just a prop to the second woman lead.

wknt3 · June 22, 2020

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t exactly agree that they don’t have options with Carisi - he’s an interesting character and they can have it where he’s in more conflict with the squad at times or explore how he’s adjusting to being an ADA and not a detective, and most importantly they can write interesting court cases for him to prosecute, like I say, Warren and company wrote some good material for Barba, so they are clearly capable of writing decent legal material even if it’s not Warren’s favorite thing.

Of course they have options - as I said it's a goldmine of potential storylines that could and should be explored. It's just that for various reasons they don't want to or they haven't done certain things in so long (like writing extensive trail scenes) that it may not occur to them. They have shut off a lot of those options due to their/TPTB poor decisions over the last 10 years or so and aren't willing to do the work or are simply choosing their battles.

Quote

Instead they seemed to struggle with what to do with Carisi last season, even though his transition to being an ADA went fairly well and he was good in the role. Introducing Hadid was a terrible move, she’s a wooden cliche, horribly written and even more horribly acted, and they managed to take a big fat dump on the whole DA’s office in the process. There was virtually no conflict between Carisi and the squad, especially Benson, in fact the few times there was conflict it was Fin, Rollins or Kat complaining about something to Carisi and Benson coming to Carisi’s defense. So while I was pleased with Carisi’s transition into the role, they could do a better job writing different storylines regarding it, and I’m hopeful we will have more courtroom scenes next season. And please, let’s ditch Hadid and stop crapping on the DA’s office.

I agree with all of this. And here is where I think that they have made things difficult for themselves. They know they should be wrting conflict between Carisi and the squad and showing the difference between the two separate and equally important groups in the criminal justice system. But they also have spent so long showing us that those conflicts are rooted in the lawyers not truly understanding what needs to be done for victims that it is hard to tell those stories. And can you imagine the internal political struggle that would result if they really pursued the angle of a Carisi now outranking Benson in certain matters? Heck they couldn't show her deferring to Jack McCoy! So they show us Liv beinging the one who gets it and kind of half assing it. And bringing in cardboard cut out for Carisi to join the squad in overcoming together. Could this be overcome if they wanted to? Of course. Do they want to enough? I'm skeptical.

Quote

I did hear that they were going to explore the Carisi/Benson relationship more and how it’s changed in one of the final 4 episodes that were scrapped due to the virus, so I hope they remember to explore that next season.

Here's hoping! Of course it could be just another time where they know what they should do and tell us they're doing it, but then can't manage to pull the trigger because in the end it's all about stroking the star's ego...

Xeliou66 · June 22, 2020

So yeah, we basically agree about Carisi and the legal stuff - they have options and it could be very interesting, but instead they’ve chosen to go the laziest possible route by bringing in a cardboard antagonist boss for Carisi and trashing the DA’s office in order to create conflict. It’s just lazy, cliched writing. And it seems like the writers are too focused on giving Benson and Rollins a boatload of screentime to come up with stuff for anyone else. I at least hope for better legal stuff and more court scenes next season, but I’m not confident.

And one more thing - end the Rollins/Carisi unresolved feelings shit. Keep Rollins away from Carisi, Rollins is a trainwreck and an unprofessional, unethical screw up. And stop shoving Rollins down our throat, period, I’m really sick of her, her family and her constant personal subplots, we had a ton of them in season 21.

WendyCR72 · June 24, 2020

Hello, posters! Consider this a gentle reminder: There have been a few posts linking to stories about police shows as connected to real-life events involving the police. Alas, these same events have become mired in politics.

So, in that vein, please refrain from such talk on the board and please keep the media thread strictly show related in terms of actors/plots, etc.

Thank you.

dttruman · July 7, 2020

This article just came out and I was just wondering what a line in this story means.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/christopher-meloni-previews-law-order-145307947.html

In this line, "SVU vet Christopher Meloni, who will return to the Law & Order franchise this fall in a Stabler-centric new series subtitled Organized Crime". What does "Stabler-centric" mean? Does it mean that the new show will focus entirely on Stabler's personal and professional life? I hope not, I got enough of that when they tried that many times with Benson. I hope they don't make the same mistake twice.

dirtypop90 · July 7, 2020

Well, yea, I always assumed it would focus on stabler. I’m sure he will have a unit but he will be the clear lead. I actually don’t think the show will be anything like SVU though. I think it’ll be an entirely different beast. It’s going to be 13 episodes Vs 22/23 I believe so it wont follow the typical police procedural format. For instance, with just 13 episodes, I could see the entire season being about one “big bad villain.” I don’t see them going with a different case a week.

Edited July 7, 2020 by dirtypop90

dttruman · July 7, 2020

2 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Well, yea, I always assumed it would focus on stabler. I’m sure he will have a unit but he will be the clear lead. I actually don’t think the show will be anything like SVU though. I think it’ll be an entirely different beast.

I agree, Stabler should be the lead, but the premise should focus on the investigations. How many episodes will focus on the personal lives and problems of this new squad and turn the investigations into something so superficial.

CrystalBlue · July 7, 2020

I wonder if Law & Order will do a crossover episode(s) with Organized Crime and SVU. You know ~~Benson~~ Hargitay will somehow want to get into the act. I'm sure the show runners think everyone is waiting with bated breath to see the Deadly Duo back in action. No doubt St. Olivia will be needed to console the newly-grieving Stabler.

dttruman · July 7, 2020

7 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

Well, yea, I always assumed it would focus on stabler. I’m sure he will have a unit but he will be the clear lead. I actually don’t think the show will be anything like SVU though. I think it’ll be an entirely different beast. It’s going to be 13 episodes Vs 22/23 I believe so it wont follow the typical police procedural format. For instance, with just 13 episodes, I could see the entire season being about one “big bad villain.” I don’t see them going with a different case a week.

Do you think it will have a L&O Criminal Intent flavor to it? Where they show aspects of what the criminals are doing as a case goes on? If so, this kind reminds me of a series call "Line of Fire" back in the early 2000's where they look at the aspects of the good guys and the bad guys through a season.

Edited July 8, 2020 by dttruman

dirtypop90 · July 7, 2020

5 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I wonder if Law & Order will do a crossover episode(s) with Organized Crime and SVU. You know ~~Benson~~ Hargitay will somehow want to get into the act. I'm sure the show runners think everyone is waiting with bated breath to see the Deadly Duo back in action. No doubt St. Olivia will be needed to console the newly-grieving Stabler.

With only 13 episodes, I’m not sure how much time there is for benson on stabler’s show? Maybe most of the reconnecting will happen on SVU and Benson showing up on OC once? Unless the big bad is a sex trafficker? but still...they really can’t let Benson swallow up too much time on a show with only 13 eps when the audience needs to find out where stabler’s been, what’s goin on with the wife and multiple kids, how he got his job back, and introduce the new unit and members and you know actually solve crime...

i’m also envisioning something dark and gritty (tone wise) and Benson/Mariska is just not that. I imagine her throwing off the whole tone of the show if/when she arrives so I don’t want to see it happen too often.

5 hours ago, dttruman said:

Do you think it will have a L&O Criminal Intent flavor to it? Where they show aspects of what the criminals are doing as a case goes on? If so, this kind of reminds me of a series call "Line of Fire" back in the early 2000's where they look at the aspects of the good guys and the bad guys through a season.

Yea, I’ve been envisioning something like that.

WendyCR72 · July 8, 2020

Heads up! Anyone wishing to discuss Elliot's return to the franchise further, there is now a forum for Law & Order: Organized Crime. So take it there and have fun!

853fisher · August 7, 2020

Something caught my eye under "sponsored content" at the end of a local news article I just read. See if you spot it. 😉

incandescent · August 8, 2020

I guess we know where she's disappearing the battered women to!

dttruman · August 18, 2020

The Law & Order Channel apparently has some followers that aren't exactly found of SVU

Apparently the Law & Order Channel on Youtube has some followers that aren't exactly fond of having SVU videos put on there. There are a couple of comments that approve of it, but most of them don't.

s

Edited August 18, 2020 by dttruman

CrystalBlue · August 18, 2020

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

The Law & Order Channel apparently has some followers that aren't exactly found of

Apparently the Law & Order Channel on Youtube has some followers that aren't exactly fond of having SVU videos put on there. There are a couple of comments that approve of it, but most of them don't.

s

The Mothership is The Mothership and that's that! Do not post any other L&O's on our channel. You will lose subscribers if you do!! You have been warned!!!

Xeliou66 · August 18, 2020

I get Mothership fans being pissed at SVU in general - The quality of SVU is not only far below the quality of the Mothership, even when SVU was at its best it was never as good as the Mothership, and SVU is now dragging down the legacy of the whole franchise with the shit that they are doing now - trashing the DA’s office without saying there’s a new DA since last we heard it was McCoy, bringing on Peter Stone, a legacy character, only to trash him and make him look unethical, and generally being a shitshow that isn’t even worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as the Mothership. So yeah, as someone who loves the Mothership, I think it’s a goddamn shame that SVU got the record 21 seasons instead of the Mothership, and that SVU is now the show more associated with the L&O name than the Mothership, people who just hear the name Law and Order and immediately think of SVU will never know how truly great the Mothership was. SVU is just dragging the legacy of the L&O franchise through the dirt now, and it’s a shame.

dttruman · August 22, 2020

Just turned on the TV and though I was watching a trailer of the new L&O: Organized Crime, because Chris Meloni was walking slowly into a crime scene area dressed in his official suit. To my surprise it was just Chris starring in a movie called the "Marauders" with Bruce Willis that is on the Sundance channel as I type this in.

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