All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[Bastet]

4 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I vaguely recall being disappointed that they didn't live happily ever after,

I had quit watching well before the series ended, but my understanding of the flash forward in the finale has always been that they were together (living in CA, I think), and even had a kid.  Blech.  I thought their flirtation that couldn't go anywhere was a nice dynamic, but once they brought him back, I couldn't stand him.

[ProudMary]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I've only watched the show once, about 5 years ago, and reading all of the above disappointment upon rewatching, I think I'm good with just the one-time watch.

I can't speak for everyone, although I think many in this group would agree with me when I say that Seasons 1-4 of The West Wing are among, if not THE best episodes of television ever to have aired. 

The disappointment comes with the non-Aaron Sorkin penned Seasons 5 through 7 (with the exception of S5, Ep.17 "The Supremes," which is very good.) Season 7 has its moments, especially if one looks at it as a separate story, a spin-off of sorts, with a few characters from the original series occasionally checking in. Most of S6 is a train wreck, IMO.

I'll re-watch S1-S4 at the drop of a hat.

[Cetacean]

49 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

I can't speak for everyone, although I think many in this group would agree with me when I say that Seasons 1-4 of The West Wing are among, if not THE best episodes of television ever to have aired. 

I'll re-watch S1-S4 at the drop of a hat.

Totally agree. I have watched some early episodes so often that I can recite the dialog.  An absolutely superlative series until Sorkin left.

[ProudMary]

49 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

Totally agree. I have watched some early episodes so often that I can recite the dialog.  An absolutely superlative series until Sorkin left.

Right there with you!

[PeterPirate]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I had quit watching well before the series ended, but my understanding of the flash forward in the finale has always been that they were together (living in CA, I think), and even had a kid.  Blech.  I thought their flirtation that couldn't go anywhere was a nice dynamic, but once they brought him back, I couldn't stand him.

If you skipped the last three episodes I'd say you missed out.  I'm a pretty old-fashioned guy, but I think it was appropriate for Danny to refer to himself as "Mr. CJ Cregg" in the penultimate episode.  CJ wasn't going to be POTUS' chief of staff anymore, but she had her pick of high-powered offers.  

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, PeterPirate said:

If you skipped the last three episodes I'd say you missed out.

I skipped the last few seasons, and have never read anything that indicates I missed out in leaving the show when I did.  It is one of TV's best shows even given the lesser seasons given how great the earlier ones were.  Moonlighting - another show in contention for greatest of all time despite a dramatic decline in quality between earlier and later seasons - permanently cured me of any notion I had to watch a series the whole way through.  

[Guest]

I think Season 5 is the worst, but all of the seasons are better than 95% of the shows that have been made.

@justmehere I agree on Leo. Particularly scenes in the first episode of season 7. Things like being surprised by how much security he has just don’t help with a man who was a major player in multiple election cycles. 

[PeterPirate]

Season 5 includes The Supremes, which is nearly universally acclaimed.  For comparison, its rating at IMDb is 9.2 out of 10.  The highest-rated episode of the series is Two Cathedrals with 9.4.  

Other watchable episodes from S5 are The Stormy Present, Eppur Si Muove, No Exit, Abu El Banat, Gaza, Memorial Day, and The Warfare of Genghis Khan.  

That said, none of the post-Sorkin episodes, even The Supremes, matches the best of the first four seasons.  The key missing ingredient is the emotional connection the main characters had with each other.  The line "My name is Toby Ziegler; I work at the White House" evokes memories of joshing around with one's best friend, not a bet one makes with a rival.  I can understand why someone might avoid the show for that reason alone.  But what else is there worth watching?    

[PeterPirate]

From Pilot:

Laurie:  Tell your friend POTUS he's got a funny name. And he should learn how to ride a bicycle.  

[ProudMary]

There truly is a West Wing quote for everything! 😄

[HyeChaps]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/06/18/biden-falls-bike-ride-vpx.cnn

[justmehere]

Well, Season 7 definitely improved on Season 6. There were even some flashes of the original style (I think writer Debora Cahn helped that) and some good personal moments.  However, especially during the whole campaign, it was like an interesting spinoff that occasionally had crossover events with the main show, and they sometimes felt awkward.

I'd say it was good generally but still felt so different that seeing Aaron Sorkin's name in the credits felt strange - as, sometimes, did the opening music. It became a different show, that's all. And I guess there were budget issues, but the total absence of one or another or a few original cast members for long periods really stuck out. That said, there was some very good writing in this last season. 

It was still tough watching the episodes about Leo's death - even making him the same age John Spencer was when he passed. Tears, still.

The ending was good. It was nice to see Sam again; I was glad for Toby's outcome (the storyline was an injustice to the character, and I missed him); glad that CJ did not stay, and very much liked Danny coming back - and his sane relationship view; and I enjoyed Sorkin's cameo at the inauguration.

I don't know whether I'll skip the later seasons on another re-watch, but I am eager to go back and see some early ones now.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I also enjoyed the little in joke at the end where Bartlet asks the assistant, Nancy (Renee Estevez), how her mother is doing and says to tell her he looks forward to seeing her... Ms. Estevez being Mr. Sheen's daughter, of course.

Edited June 20, 2022 by justmehere

[ProudMary]

Hey fellow West Wing fans:  Just as in real life, it's primary election season here on Primetimer! First round voting is open for a few more days in the annual Primetimer Awards. Our favorite show is one of 50 nominees in the category, Golden Oldie: Favorite Off-Air Show of All Time. Last year, TWW didn't even make it to the final round. 😔 Let's do something about that! The first round of polls has a multiple choice option, so if you have another favorite G.O.A.T. contender in play, you can vote for that show too, but let's get The West Wing into the final five.

Here's a direct link to the category:  https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/131324-golden-oldie-favorite-off-air-show-of-all-time/#comment-7506128

[PeterPirate]

From The Red Mass:  

Amy - First of all, I'm crazy about the President, Josh. I've been crazy about him for longer than you've known who he was. And I'll keep poking him with a stick. That's how I show my love. But as a women's issue, it's a no-brainer. The next Justice can overturn Roe and you don't screw around with that.

[ProudMary]

From The Short List:

Sam Seaborn: It's not just about abortion, it's about the next 20 years. In the '20s and '30s it was the role of government. '50s and '60s it was civil rights. The next two decades are going to be privacy. I'm talking about the Internet. I'm talking about cell phones. I'm talking about health records and who's gay and who's not. And moreover, in a country born on the will to be free, what could be more fundamental than this?

[Cetacean]

Welcome back to the 20's.

[A.Ham]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

The next Justice can overturn Roe and you don't screw around with that.

I really wish for Aaron Sorkin to have less predictive writing skills. But damm. He was right on the money.

Today hurts.

[ProudMary]

Actress Mary Mara passed away at 61 in an apparent drowning. She was pictured in the article I was reading and was credited with work on ER and Law and Order but that didn't ring any bells for me. I recognized her, and could hear her voice in my head, but couldn't quite place her.

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/mary-mara-tv-actor-decades-dies-apparent-drowning-85821762

Then it hit me: Reporter Sherri Wexler! May she rest in peace.

Edited June 28, 2022 by ProudMary
Added news link.

[Bastet]

Oh, I had completely forgotten she played Sherri Wexler!  I most associate her with her recurring role on ER, but knew I'd seen her in a few other one-offs, yet didn't make the WW connection.

[PeterPirate]

Apparently, women named Wexler are both stupid and not stupid.  

Also, from In The Shadow Of Two Gunmen:

Ron Butterfield - I have to put you inside the White House, Mr. President. This isn't something we discuss.

Edited June 29, 2022 by PeterPirate

[ProudMary]

The West Wing has made it to the G.O.A.T. finals in the Primetimer Awards! Let's vote in numbers to get our favorite show chosen and retired once and for all! Here's a direct link to the specific poll:  https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/131957-golden-oldie-favorite-off-air-show-of-all-time/

Here's a look at the competition:  

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, ProudMary said:

The West Wing has made it to the G.O.A.T. finals in the Primetimer Awards!

Oh, cool.  I'm the one who nominated it -- even though I lost interest and didn't watch the entire series, the first four seasons are so spectacular I still think it qualifies as one of the best shows ever.

[ProudMary]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

Oh, cool.  I'm the one who nominated it -- even though I lost interest and didn't watch the entire series, the first four seasons are so spectacular I still think it qualifies as one of the best shows ever.

I wondered who made the nomination! When I got to this category early on, and saw that TWW was already up, I nominated The Sopranos (always in direct Emmys competition with TWW, as both brilliant shows ran in almost the exact same time frame) and M*A*S*H, also chosen as a finalist in the category.

So, I'll be voting against my own nominee. 😄

[PeterPirate]

51 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

I nominated The Sopranos and M*A*S*H 

Go outside, turn around three times, curse, spit, and curse and spit.   😇

Edited July 3, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Bastet]

M*A*S*H won, but WW was the runner up.  Maybe next year.

[Cetacean]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

M*A*S*H won, but WW was the runner up.  Maybe next year.

I voted for WW but, man, it was tough not to pick M*A*S*H.  Out of the thousands of series over the years, only a few stand out.

[PeterPirate]

When next year's nominations roll around, someone needs to pour Wheatena on Proud Mary's keyboard.  

Edited July 10, 2022 by PeterPirate

[ProudMary]

I solemnly swear NOT to nominate any show but The West Wing for G.O.A.T. next year! 

[Driad]

Who Do You Think You Are? will investigate the family histories of Allison Janney on July 24 and Bradley Whitford on August 7.  NBC, Sundays, 7 PM Eastern time.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Driad

[Moose135]

Biden to unveil first photo from James Webb Space Telescope

Quote

President Joe Biden will unveil the much-anticipated first full-color image from NASA's James Webb Space Telescope on Monday, agency officials confirmed.

The image, known as "Webb's First Deep Field," will be the deepest and highest-resolution view of the universe ever captured, showing myriad galaxies as they appeared up to 13 billion years in the past, according to NASA.

Hope it goes smoother than Galileo.  😉

[CheshireCat]

I just had a West Wing moment: I was so lost in thought that I opened the closet door and almost walked inside to go to the bathroom. I immediately thought of Ainsley. 😂 (I always wonder what she was doing in the closet for so long and why she didn't come out right away again...)

[marypat57]

I had another “West Wing moment” when President Biden fell off his bicycle a few weeks ago.  
I wondered if his “Toby”  had to explain to the flight attendant what POTUS meant.  Inquiring minds want to know.

[SoMuchTV]

44 minutes ago, marypat57 said:

I had another “West Wing moment” when President Biden fell off his bicycle a few weeks ago.  
I wondered if his “Toby”  had to explain to the flight attendant what POTUS meant.  Inquiring minds want to know.

LOL probably not, since thanks at least in part to The West Wing, terms like POTUS, SCOTUS, & FLOTUS are familiar to a lot more people now.

[labresq]

West Wing Moment:  Bill Russell died - he's the one Leo talked about when he said "he wouldn't throw an elbow" until he did just once.

I also was surprised nobody came here to talk about the giant Chinese object hurtling through space last week.

[caitmcg]

Yesterday, I saw a photo of Biden”s Oval Office, and thought about how, whenever I see photos of it (whoever’s president at the time), I’m always ever so slightly surprised there’s no striped upholstery. 

[ProudMary]

[PeterPirate]

From Pilot:

CJ - What's our problem? 
Toby - What to do when the Nina, the Pinta, and the Get-Me-The-Hell-Outta-Here hit Miami.  

Just a rando line that hit me while was watching Rings of Power. 

While I'm at it, I will add this line from H. Con-172:  

CJ - You're asking for a whole lot of pain, in exchange for which you get nothing but an old map.  

I may end up using this thread a lot because of ROP.   

Edited September 27, 2022 by PeterPirate

[circumvent]

I didn't know that there was a WW forum here, after all these years. I watched when it first ran and liked it. I watched a few years later and hated it. For one, women are just incompetent, even when they are being competent. The people working in the WW don't fight for anything, they just talk about fighting for things. It is painted as a leftist administration but it is really a middle of the road elitist liberal that despises any idea of people power. Racist to the core, but it is well intentioned racism so I guess people like to brush over that. Pro-police, pro-imperialism, against workers. They know more than anyone, they are better than anyone. Can't stand any of the characters, although I like some of the actors a lot.

So I am happy to know that I am not the only one and there is so much more I recently found out can be deconstructed to the last words on a very good podcast "The West Wing Thing" - despite some silly commentaries, they go straight to the bullshit Sorkin wrote. The show was really bad. 

[caitmcg]

7 hours ago, circumvent said:

For one, women are just incompetent, even when they are being competent. 

An Aaron Sorkin specialty, apparently.

Edited October 15, 2022 by caitmcg

[PeterPirate]

Aaron Sorkin should write a screenplay about a fictional mega-corporation that buys the rights to a beloved fantasy novel and then produces a TV show that is completely different from the source material.  After all, he has experience in having his work taken over by others.

Rob Reiner should direct the movie.  After all, he made This Is Spinal Tap.  

[PeterPirate]

From Inauguration, Part 1:

Aide - King Nawa of Bhutan died.
Bartlet - We'll send condolences. What's next?
Aide - The new king is Yeshey Pradhan Nawa.
Bartlet - Okay.
Aide - He's 13 years old.
Bartlet - Well, if he's old enough to marry Jerry Lee Lewis, I guess he's old enough to be king of Bhutan. What's next?

[CheshireCat]

My most recent rewatch was the episode in which Sam mulls over the elimination of the penny. Fittingly, my Facebook algorithm recommended a video of someone who made a dress out of 2651 pennies. I guess, she proved Sam's point ;-) (Although, I disagree with the notion in general. In Germany we have a saying: If you don't honor the penny, you're not worth the money. It means that you need to appreciate any amount of money no matter how small because it's money, too and I think instead, Sam should have contemplated ways to get the penny back into circulation).

[PeterPirate]

In Noel, Bernard says to CJ either
A) "You're a freakishly tall woman" or
B) "You're a freakish little woman"  

Version A appears in the subtitles on the DVDs.  Version B appears in the subtitles on HBO Max and also at West Wing Transcripts.  Until today I had always heard Version A, and was quite surprised to learn there was a Version B. 

This line (Version A) popped in my head while I was watching the actress who plays Princess Diana in the new season of The Crown.  But as it turns out, Version B applies to the actress playing Queen Elizabeth.  

[Cetacean]

5 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

In Noel, Bernard says to CJ either
A) "You're a freakishly tall woman" or
B) "You're a freakish little woman"  

B makes no sense, has to be A.  And that's how I always heard it.

[DXD526]

HLN is running a TWW marathon all weekend. 

[kav]

I just watched 6 straight hours of it from 6-12 ending with the documentary.  In the Westwing world, who was the last President that actually was President?  Also what number was Jeb?

[CheshireCat]

4 hours ago, kav said:

I just watched 6 straight hours of it from 6-12 ending with the documentary.  In the Westwing world, who was the last President that actually was President?  Also what number was Jeb?

I don't recall them mentioning which number President he was. They also had their presidential election season when the real world has midterms. I didn't watch it when it aired originally but since they also have made-up countries, I'm assuming that the creators - other than the Madam Secretary creators - wanted their very own universe.

In case you don't want to be spoiled:

Spoiler

There is a later episode when Bartlett attends a funeral and he attends with (I believe) two other living Presidents (one who was acting President), so his predecessors are fictional as well.

[Cetacean]

Game On - "What you've done in Florida is bring together the right with the far right".

[kav]

7 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I don't recall them mentioning which number President he was. They also had their presidential election season when the real world has midterms. I didn't watch it when it aired originally but since they also have made-up countries, I'm assuming that the creators - other than the Madam Secretary creators - wanted their very own universe.

In case you don't want to be spoiled:

  Reveal spoiler

There is a later episode when Bartlett attends a funeral and he attends with (I believe) two other living Presidents (one who was acting President), so his predecessors are fictional as well.

I found a Presidential Timeline online which was interesting.

[Bastet]

15 hours ago, kav said:

In the Westwing world, who was the last President that actually was President?  Also what number was Jeb?

We don't know what number Jed Bartlet was, and, IIRC, the most-recent real president to be mentioned in the series was Nixon.