Television Vs. Book: Why'd They Make [Spoiler] Such A [Spoiler]?

[benteen]

I hope we get the big battle.

 

I suspect if we don't, the Unsullied fans are really going to flip out with that finale for a lot of reasons.

[SeanC]

From that Stannis video, one of the Iwan Rheon interviews in a BTS piece, and some shots in the promos, it looks like we get at least some kind of battle in the North, though we don't know whether we'll get the resolution.

 

My guess for the Winterfell storyline:

 

Episode 9:  Sansa/Theon/Brienne escape, and there may or may not be a cliffhanger (within their storyline) of them riding for Stannis' camp.

Episode 10:  They get to Stannis (since Brienne meeting Stannis again was pretty heavily foreshadowed this season), and Sansa's escape prompts the Boltons to have to march out.  The battle ensues.  Probably we're left wondering who won.

Edited May 28, 2015 by SeanC

[NeelyO]

I am not a book reader but am curious to know if The Mountain is brought back to life in the books, and if so, will he/it make an appearance in one of the last two episodes this season?

[Avaleigh]

We don't know for sure that the Mountain will make an appearance on his feet this season but since they've gone to the trouble to include Qyburn and his experimenting on him I can only assume that he'll make his appearance at some point. If you really want to know when I think he'll appear I'll simply say that he might show up after

Cersei gets out of jail.

 

ETA: It's always hard to describe the state of Gregorstein.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Brn2bwild]

I think that's guaranteed.  I'm not sure how her ending up in the Dothraki Sea would work otherwise.  Dragon-riding is going to be the biggest CGI expenditure the show has had yet, but considering that there's presumably going to be three of them by the seventh season, they're going to have to make it work.

 

I'm also holding out hope for 

a Viserys vision. There must have been a reason for the Harry Lloyd sightings (his video project, etc.) before the season.

[Elkins]

I am not a book reader but am curious to know if The Mountain is brought back to life in the books, and if so, will he/it make an appearance in one of the last two episodes this season?

If you're wondering why you're getting somewhat fuzzy responses here, NeelyO, it's because the show is very nearly caught up to the books when it comes to the King's Landing material. By the end of this season, I'm guessing we'll be caught up, and possibly even a tiny bit ahead. So, while your guess might not be quite as good as ours just yet, it's very nearly so.  :-)

[nksarmi]

I am not a book reader but am curious to know if The Mountain is brought back to life in the books, and if so, will he/it make an appearance in one of the last two episodes this season?

I don't remember the last two books as well as I should - in my opinion they weren't that good and the show is generally speaking improving on them.  So the best I can say is that the Mountain is being experimented on and the hope is that "he" will be ready for an event that has not yet happened in the books.  I don't know if we will get there by the end of this season or if they will save that event for the start of season six or change the whole way the story plays out.

Edited May 29, 2015 by nksarmi

[Avaleigh]

Whether Olenna is a hypocrite is really not the question.  She is an aloof aristocrat with no connection to the people her house is governing by force.  This whole system is bad for the people, and has brought about the dreadful war that gave birth to the Sparrow movement.  Shouldn't the Seven Kingdoms be run by a government that puts ordinary people first?

I meant to address this earlier. Hypocrisy seems to be a big issue to the HS. He mentions it during one of his conversations with Cersei and says something about how hypocrisy is a boil that needs to be lanced or something along those lines and that it's never a pleasant process.

 

Also, when he says things to Cersei about how the Tyrells *will* be brought down (or maybe he says brought low)--it's like this guy sounds as though he's already made up his mind as to whether or not Loras and Margaery will be found guilty. He says that House Tyrell will be stripped of it's finery and is saying all of these things that fill Cersei with glee because she wants to see it happen--if the HS is supposed to be all just then why isn't he at least thinking that the Tyrells are innocent until proven guilty? 

 

The HS's sincerity is a huge part of what makes him so dangerous. There's no reasoning with a fanatic as Olenna learned for herself. 

 

The HS isn't putting ordinary people first when he puts his desire to punish the aristocrats over something like making sure that the poor continue to get their food supply. 

 

It's not like the HS is trying to overthrow the government and put a better one in place anyway. At the moment he seems like he's primarily about punishing people as opposed to helping them. Honestly, just look at the way he's "helped" Lancel one of the guys who seems to have a prominent position in this movement. Apart from having a better looking haircut in no way does Lancel seem like a better or happier person now that he's hooked up with the FM. Instead he's a guy whose current purpose is to harass people in the streets of KL, to mutilate himself in order to gain approval with the FM, and to separate himself from his family including his father who is a decent and honorable man who doesn't really deserve to be essentially cut off from his (only?) son.

 

I honestly can't think of a single reason why I should be rooting for the Faith to take over even if they are taking people like Cersei Lannister down a peg. When I consider what sort of influence they'd be likely to have it makes me think that they'd mainly help to make life miserable for the average person. 

[SeanC]

The HS isn't putting ordinary people first when he puts his desire to punish the aristocrats over something like making sure that the poor continue to get their food supply. 

 

It's not like the HS is trying to overthrow the government and put a better one in place anyway. At the moment he seems like he's primarily about punishing people as opposed to helping them. 

When you have aristocrats threatening to starve the entire city over their own personal troubles, don't you think that's a problem?

 

We've seen the Sparrows engaged in various charitable activities.  The HS clearly considers installing a moral government the best thing he can do to help the realm.

[Elkins]

Apart from having a better looking haircut in no way doehaving a better looking haircut in no way does Lancel seem like a better or happier person now that he's hooked up with the FM. Instead he's a guy whose current purpose is to harass people in the streets of KL, to mutilate himself in order to gain approval with the FM, and to separate himself from his family including his father who is a decent and honorable man who doesn't really deserve to be essentially cut off from his (only?) son.

You know, it wasn't until I read this that I remembered that those two captive Lannister kids that Karstark slaughtered were Lancel's younger brothers. Killed in the succession crisis caused (in part) by Robert's death.

 

No wonder Lancel broke so hard that he turned to religious extremism. Can you imagine how guilty he must have felt?

[Avaleigh]

When you have aristocrats threatening to starve the entire city over their own personal troubles, don't you think that's a problem?

 

We've seen the Sparrows engaged in various charitable activities.  The HS clearly considers installing a moral government the best thing he can do to help the realm.

The aristocrats wouldn't be threatening to starve the city were it not for this guy who cares about the well being of the common people.

 

I remember us seeing the HS feeding people food and bread that more than likely comes from the Tyrells. I can't recall the Sparrows engaging in other charitable activities. There isn't any suggestion to me that their form of government is going to be any more moral than the current one. 

[SFoster21]

But, in the book, Lancel is at his home, helping the small folk rebuild and planning to marry. He is not fanatac-ing around KL. He is happier.

[Avaleigh]

But, in the book, Lancel is at his home, helping the small folk rebuild and planning to marry. He is not fanatac-ing around KL. He is happier.

In the book Lancel gets married but doesn't have any interest in his wife for whatever reason. 

[BlackberryJam]

In the book Lancel gets married but doesn't have any interest in his wife for whatever reason. 

 

UHmm...Gatehouse Ami?

[Avaleigh]

Oh shit, is that who his wife is? Lol, I obviously don't recall how that ended up happening.

[Umbelina]

Again though, when Arya was leaving KL after her father's death, the poor were fighting over rats to eat. 

 

Maybe I'm misremembering, but the poor were always starving in KL, even with Highgarden's food supply.

[Greta]

The real question is whether the High Sparrow's vision for "his" government would be any better for the poor people.  I've seen nothing to indicate he wouldn't be down with mutilating, torturing and killing poor people as easily as rich ones if they strayed from what he thought was moral. True believers are always the most dangerous when given power because they can justify anything as for the greater good.

[Umbelina]

Yes, but true believers will always have a following when distribution of wealth and power is so completely lopsided, and opportunity is really only allowed for the 1%. 

 

Littlefinger broke that mold, but not many others have.

 

Maybe, had Tywin actually taught Cersei to "lead" rather than to be a decorous wife to a drunken King, she wouldn't have been so idiotic as to give power to the HS and his ilk.  But, she was a girl after all, so he didn't.  He had another son who might have been a great leader, but since he was a dwarf was not given the opportunity.  Tywin is almost as stupid as Ned when it comes to playing the game, well, NO ONE is as stupid as Ned, but ...

[Constantinople]

Yes, but true believers will always have a following when distribution of wealth and power is so completely lopsided, and opportunity is really only allowed for the 1%. 

 

Littlefinger broke that mold, but not many others have.

 

Maybe, had Tywin actually taught Cersei to "lead" rather than to be a decorous wife to a drunken King, she wouldn't have been so idiotic as to give power to the HS and his ilk.

The problem wasn't Cersei's alleged education (given how often TV Cersei bitched about Tywin's lectures, he didn't exactly ignore her). The problem is that Cersei's a moron who think she has a functioning brain. As Tywin said, he didn't trust her because she's not as smart as she thinks she is.

The Targaryens outlawed the Faith Militant when they had dragons at their disposal. Despite this red flag, Cersei decides to resurrect the FM to attack the Lannisters most important ally. One needn't have read The Prince or The Art of War to realize this is a stupid idea.  All one needs is common sense, which Cersei lacks in spades.

[WearyTraveler]

When / if the Faith Militant (FM) plot and the Faceless Men (FM) plots converge, it's going to take a few lines to determine who the poster is talking about :D

 

Maybe we can refer toTthe Faith Militant as TFM to avoid possible confusions?

[Avaleigh]

Maybe, had Tywin actually taught Cersei to "lead" rather than to be a decorous wife to a drunken King, she wouldn't have been so idiotic as to give power to the HS and his ilk.  But, she was a girl after all, so he didn't.  He had another son who might have been a great leader, but since he was a dwarf was not given the opportunity.  Tywin is almost as stupid as Ned when it comes to playing the game, well, NO ONE is as stupid as Ned, but ...

In the books I definitely think that a big flaw of Tywin's was not teaching Cersei anything useful and being so hands off with what was going on in KL prior to Robert's death. I understand that he had no official position but he seemed out of the loop and there's really no reason why he couldn't have visited more than he did. He clearly has next to no relationship with his grandchildren and you'd think he'd have at least cared about getting to know Joffrey early on. 

 

Cersei talks about having to listen to Tywin's lectures but we also learn that he didn't think it was worth bringing her to KL to observe and learn during his time as Hand. Ned certainly thought it was worth bringing his daughters when he was in that position and Tywin thought it was worth it to bring Jaime because he obviously thought Jaime would benefit from the experience. Since Cersei was a girl it likely didn't matter to him if she benefitted or not. I can definitely see that Tywin was completely lopsided in dealing with his children. Jaime was easily the favorite even if Jaime was the hardest to control. Tyrion was the least wanted but basically seemed like he did what he was told and did his best to emulate Tywin. Cersei was valued more than Tyrion was but she's still held with a kind of contempt by Tywin and it didn't seem like he really expected anything of her apart from lifelong obedience to him and House Lannister. I think Cersei and Tyrion were both jealous of Jaime in their own way and that favoritism was probably a big part of this. 

 

ETA: I thought the scene where Tywin forces Cersei to wait like a little girl was proof of how he isn't really interested in teaching her anything. All he does is tell her that they're broke and that this is why they need to cozy up to the Tyrells. I honestly think that LF has made more effort with Sansa than Tywin did with Cersei. 

 

I agree that Cersei is stupid so that's even more of a reason for why Tywin should have tried to teach her something worthwhile. Something other than "everyone who isn't us is an enemy"/"trust ourselves alone". 

 

Maybe we can refer toTthe Faith Militant as TFM to avoid possible confusions?

TFM vs FM? I can still see people thinking The Faceless Men but I guess that could work.

 

or maybe FM vs Fmen?  

Edited May 30, 2015 by Avaleigh

[benteen]

Book Tywin didn't teach her statecraft and neglecting his two younger kids was definitely a problem.  He would have had a loyal follower (Cersei too) if he had shown some love and decency to Tyrion.  Of course, Cersei was already a moron and a paranoid nut when she was younger, having already killed her best friend over a prophecy and being caught "doing what the animals do" with Jaime by her mother.  Tywin might have been able to improve the situation but was dealing with bad genes early on with Cersei.

[nksarmi]

Again though, when Arya was leaving KL after her father's death, the poor were fighting over rats to eat. 

 

Maybe I'm misremembering, but the poor were always starving in KL, even with Highgarden's food supply.

I think the situation in KL has been bad for ages, but not necessarily in the whole realm.  The Mad King was a horrible ruler, but Raegor was trying to do some good.  The little people of KL might have been better off if he became king but instead they got a rebellion and a drunkard who loved war but hated ruling.  They likely would have been better off with either Tywin OR Ned but Robert B was a disaster.  He wasted money and was in debt to the Lannisters and the Iron Bank up to his eyeballs.

 

The War of 5 Kings made things worse and people started pouring into KL seeking refuse.  At one point, I believe Cersei threatens to look them out or says she wants to start kicking people out of KL because they can't feed them all.  So things definitely went from bad to worse during Geoffrey's short reign.  It seems like things are somewhat better with the support of High Garden, but how Cersei expected that to continue with her blatant attack on Marg and Loras, I do not know. Show Cersei might be more subdued, but she is petty and let's her personal vendettas get ahead of good decision making.  She weakened herself to no end to get into this position with the FM and her son is a truly weak king who is clearly about to fall. 

 

In the books, the death of Kevin at the end is so sudden, I didn't occur to me to think "oh crap, who is going to rule now?" because clearly Tommen is too young to do it. But watching Cersei use the FM to take out Marg and Loras with Kevin's clear absence - it's becoming crystal clear that Tommen is very unlikely to even be king for much longer. 

[Holmbo]

Is Mace in kingslanding in the book? He'd probably be the closest to a legitimate ruler they have at this point.

In the show maybe Tommen will realize that he's actually the King and take charge.

[benteen]

Mace returned to King's Landing after Margarey's arrest and is serving as Hand of the King.  His top bannermen are with him, including Tarly.

 

I recall in ACOK Joffrey bragging about how he fired on starving peasants (he killed an old woman with a crossbow) outside the castle and "giving them his leave to eat their dead." 

[Spartan Girl]

If Dany is going to fly off on Drogon, then maybe she could take Tyrion with her? No harm in the writers giving them more time to interact....although the thought of her grabbing Tyrion would strongly remind me of the new Terminator movie Emilia Clark is in. "Come with me if you want to live!" LOL.

[Amtosbm]

While avoiding work I started watching some GOT clips at youtube. It struck me how many many characters I didn't like in the books that I like better on the show, and vice versa.  Some of the changes were subtle while others were mind boggling.

 

I hated the Hound in the books but loved him on the show. I thought the actor really added a lot of gravitas to a character I had a hard time getting a read on in the book. I also loved that on the show he thought it was funny and somewhat fitting that he was brought down by a woman.

 

In the books I am indifferent to Sansa. I know her being a constant victim is tiring but there are people like that in real life.  After surviving Ramsay which I think she will stronger than ever, I really want her to have some happiness. I thought for awhile book wise, she may have ended up with Willas Tyrell at the end. I think they would have been a good match but now I am not so sure.

 

Joffrey was such a hateful character in the book I couldn't wait for him to die, the fact that I kind of miss him is a tribute to Jack's no holds bar performance.

 

I am kind of bored by Brienne in the books but love her in the show. Her line reading 'with Locke' just completely sold me on the actress. It doesn't help that it feels like Brienne is travelling forever in the books.

 

I find IR take on Ramsay to be interesting. He is clearly showing Ramsay is insane yet delusion enough to think he is fooling everyone. Book Ramsay is just a monster straight from hell. I am with those who think Roose's voice is just hyponotizing.

 

I so prefer show Jon. It took a long time but I think Kit has really improved as an actor.

 

I know show Tryion is white washed compared to the book but I really don't care. PD is just terrific.

 

I disliked Robb on the show which was disappointing because I liked him so much more in the book. I think having him marry for love was just a bad move, as it painted him as selfish and immature.

 

I am mixed on Jamie. I think the actor is great but his storyline is just not generating the same feelings I had for him the book. It feels like his redemption arc is kind of holding still instead of moving on.

 

Renly is just so much more charismatic and appealing in the book. I really was just disappointed with his whole storyline in the show. Loras has also been lost on these writers.

 

I actually kind of like Melisandre in the books but on the show she is just shown as a cold blooded seducer of men. I feel she has lost most of her mystery and her subtly questioning her unflinching beliefs.  And the red ruby constantly at her throat.

 

I hate that the House of the Undying skipped over so much stuff. Now they are trying to fill in the missing information with just horrible exposition.

 

I think the show really wasted Mance and the actor just didn't fit the part. Mance seems so much more charming in the books.

 

I also think that George firing his editor was the worst mistake he made. I would love to have seen the last two books under the previous editor.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Amtosbm

[Diana Berry]

Do you think that Benjen stark will come back?

[John Potts]

Avaleigh The aristocrats wouldn't be threatening to starve the city were it not for this guy who cares about the well being of the common people

Greta The real question is whether the High Sparrow's vision for "his" government would be any better for the poor people.

 

 

Olenna seemed to have no problem with threatening (or even actually) starving Kings Landing prior to their alliance with the Lannisters. Whether the High Sparrow would be any better is another matter - he strikes me as a fanatic and to him "The ends justify the means" and if that means thousands starving, so be it. Being a fanatic doesn't make you insincere - Lenin, Pol Pot and Robbespierre were (arguably) all sincere that they were creating a perfect society, that didn't mean they didn't have a body count in the millions.

 

benteen -  He [Tywin] would have had a loyal follower (Cersei too) if he had shown some love and decency to Tyrion.

 

 

 

He didn't even need to show love or that much decency to Tyrion - he'd never hidden his contempt for Tyrion (or arguably, any of his children) and yet Tyrion was perfectly loyal right up to when Cersei accused him of regicide. Tywin could have intervened then (as he did when Tyrion threatened to castrate Joffrey) but his blind spot to his youngest son meant he didn't.

nksarmi - The War of 5 Kings made things worse and people started pouring into KL seeking refuse

 

I think they were seeking refuge, but refuse is what they found! (Sorry, I realise that was a typo, it just struck me as funny!)

[Avaleigh]

Olenna seemed to have no problem with threatening (or even actually) starving Kings Landing prior to their alliance with the Lannisters. Whether the High Sparrow would be any better is another matter - he strikes me as a fanatic and to him "The ends justify the means" and if that means thousands starving, so be it. Being a fanatic doesn't make you insincere - Lenin, Pol Pot and Robbespierre were (arguably) all sincere that they were creating a perfect society, that didn't mean they didn't have a body count in the millions.

I've mentioned a couple of times that I believe the High Sparrow to be totally sincere. His sincerity is a big part of why I think he's an incredible dangerous character. Just take the three guys who came to mind for you when discussing the HS--I agree that he seems like the type who wouldn't have an issue with a large body count because he'd find ways to use the Faith to justify any horror. If people starve because of commands he's given the Faith Militant or because of his actions in general, then he'll just chalk it up to being the will of the gods. I don't think there's anything complex about his thought process at all. He sees people in black and white the way Melisandre does. The apple is either rotten or it isn't. Olenna, Littlefinger and a few other characters are able to look at an apple that has a black mark and at least seem willing to be able to consider the option of cutting away to see if there is any fruit worth saving/eating. It's that 'let me see if I can work with this' attitude that the HS just utterly lacks because he's so damned rigid and implacable. If he did have the quality of being willing to work with people then he'd see that he could have the power to make life better for numerous common people. He chooses not to because of his rigid interpretation of theology. He could be a rich man who spends all of his time using his money to help others and give them work but he isn't interested in doing anything like that. His solution is to bring everyone down and make everyone miserable. He thinks he deserves points for doing things like giving away his shoes when to me that is essentially the equivalent of giving somebody a fish to eat for dinner as opposed to teaching them how to freaking fish. He certainly isn't helping anyone by scrubbing the floors of the Sept, he's just doing it because it makes him seem like an average Joe who doesn't care about vanity. 

[Funzlerks]

I really wish they had made Ghost saving Sam and Gilly be a wolf dream. The lack of magic in Westeros really has a lot of problems story and characterwise, but also making Daenerys seem even more over clocked, Bran's story more isolated, and Stannis's involvement with Melisandre more confusing. It also has racial overtones - magic characters are only from outside the ostensibly European part of the world. I don't read much fantasy, but I liked the hints of magic that really were all over everyone's chapters and the great mystery of these powers even to those who had a bit of it. This is why I thought Lady Stoneheart was so important to the whole series. Catelyn was the least expected character to go down that route even if it made complete sense as she was so consumed by her personal sense of justice for her family the last year of her life.

[nksarmi]

I disagree with you on Lady Stoneheart because I hated her plot, but I do miss wolf dreams and that would have been a great moment to throw one in.

[Umbelina]

I detested the whole Lady Stoneheart crap, and have no doubt it would have (and will in the books) drag on and on with little or no impact on the story.

 

The biggest mistake I feel the writers have made so far in the series, IMO, was having Ned's (the naive idiot) is to make Robb Stark just as much of an idiot as his dad with his love story.  I felt it was much more powerful in the book, and though he was still an honorable idiot, he looked less stupid.  At least we know she wasn't pregnant with his child, since on the show the wife was murdered too.

 

That said, they know the ending and we don't, so it's possible bigger errors have been made.

 

Oh, but another one that bothered me was changing out the whore story with Tyrion.  I was really kind of touched by the original story and the loyalty of the head-whore in helping him.  I get why they did it, exposition with boobs and they liked the actress, but still, I missed having the old story.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Umbelina

[SeanC]

So, it seems the show has confirmed the "Valyrian/dragonsteel kills the Others" theory -- though that seemed fairly probable to begin.

[Winnief]

Yep Valryian Steel does the trick too.  Though given how rare it is, that might be of limited use.

 

I do think the show's doing a damn fine job of getting us to remember that what's beyond the Wall is the *real* threat-and the folks down South have NO idea what's in store for them.

[benteen]

If Ramsay is heading out of the castle, he doesn't have time for another one of his psychopathic letters.  I only hope he gets to meet the Red Woman while she's holding a torch.

[Winnief]

I'm definitely curious to see what Ramsay's up to.  It certainly seems like we're gonna get the Battle of Winterfell, (or SOME Bolton/Stannis confrontation,) this season. 

 

And now Sansa has reason to hope again.  ST and AA are acting the hell out of this storyline I gotta give them that.  But please, oh please, can Theon have his moment of bravery and help Sansa escape already?!?

 

It seems like Jorah may single handedly start a Greyscale epidemic in Mereen...or even Westeros if he survives into Season 6. 

[nksarmi]

I am simply fascinated with the story at the Wall on the show - which was probably my favorite part (along with Jamie in the Riverlands) of the last two books. Given that the show has stepped it up about 1,000 notches with that battle tonight - I'm hoping that if Jon is attacked that he rises to fight immediately.  I do NOT want a freaking cliffhanger - not at all.

[benteen]

Hope you don't mind me putting this thread up for later...GRRM talking about which characters he wishes were on Thrones.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/31/game-thrones-lady-stoneheart

 

Apparently he was commented in another EW interview as saying he wants to finish Winds of Winter before Season 6.  I'll believe it when I see it but here's hoping this has lit a fire under his ass.

Edited June 1, 2015 by benteen

[nksarmi]

I'm definitely curious to see what Ramsay's up to.  It certainly seems like we're gonna get the Battle of Winterfell, (or SOME Bolton/Stannis confrontation,) this season. 

 

And now Sansa has reason to hope again.  ST and AA are acting the hell out of this storyline I gotta give them that.  But please, oh please, can Theon have his moment of bravery and help Sansa escape already?!?

 

It seems like Jorah may single handedly start a Greyscale epidemic in Mereen...or even Westeros if he survives into Season 6. 

I actually have decided that I don't want Sansa to escape - not because I want more bad things to happen to her, but at this point, I would prefer her story to become one where she stays and everyone else who doesn't belong ends up having to leave.  I am hoping that Ramsey will die on his little - I only need 20 good men - detail so that all Sansa has to deal with soon is Roose.

[Winnief]

I'm hoping that if Jon is attacked that he rises to fight immediately.  I do NOT want a freaking cliffhanger - not at all.

 

That's what I hope as well.  That we see Jon get assassinated but then close the season with his resurrection, (and possibly the Big Reveal too though maybe the set-up is to have it happen at the beginning of next season,) because it would be really stupid to leave that dangling for 10 months if people already knew Kit was coming back next year. 

 

And if Dany is going to visit the Dothraki sea then for Seven's Sakes let it be brief and done with in an episode or two so we can get her started for Westeros already.

[InsertWordHere]

Was the Thenn that died in the hut supposed to be Signor, the Magnar of Thenn? If so, then 

would he be one of the four still living book characters that the show is supposed to kill this season?

Yep Valryian Steel does the trick too.  Though given how rare it is, that might be of limited use.

That's one good thing about Brienne being in Winterfell in the show. It gets Oathkeeper closer to the Wall. And at least one half of Ice is home again. 

[Advance35]

I actually have decided that I don't want Sansa to escape - not because I want more bad things to happen to her, but at this point, I would prefer her story to become one where she stays and everyone else who doesn't belong ends up having to leave.

 

I am going to miss the acting in the Winterfell storyline, which I think has been amazing from all, AA, ST and IW.  But I want Sansa to escape because anyone in the North is going to meet a very ugly fate based on what we saw in last nights episode.  Since we have 2 more seasons if Sansa lives to tell the tale of all that's happened I'm more convinced then ever that her fate isn't Winterfell and is in fact in the South.

 

I can't wait to see what roles Garlan and Willas Tyrell will play in this whole mess.

[nksarmi]

I am going to miss the acting in the Winterfell storyline, which I think has been amazing from all, AA, ST and IW.  But I want Sansa to escape because anyone in the North is going to meet a very ugly fate based on what we saw in last nights episode.  Since we have 2 more seasons if Sansa lives to tell the tale of all that's happened I'm more convinced then ever that her fate isn't Winterfell and is in fact in the South.

 

I can't wait to see what roles Garlan and Willas Tyrell will play in this whole mess.

I guess we all have different wishes and all, but I cannot - will not - believe that the show has put a Stark back in Winterfell just to have her flee.  I want Ramsey, Roose, and even Littlefinger to all fall while Sansa rises to power in Winterfell.  I believe Davos or Brie will end up seeking out Rickon in season six and Sansa will be in Winterfell to welcome her brother home when he is found.

 

And I want wolf dreams.  I will forgive the show for leaving them out if when Ayra is on the verge of losing who she is - she has a wolf dream of Nymeria finding Sansa and settling into Winterfell with her.  Then we'll know that Ayra can never truly be no one, because she has the blood of the First Men in her and she will likely be needed as much as every other Stark when the final battle comes.

 

Winterfell is the center of the North and the North must stand.  I fully believe this series began in the North and it will end in the North.  I believe the ultimate point of everything will be to get primary characters to the North, not send them away.  Dany must get to Westerous with her dragons and she and Tyrion must then head North.  If Stannis survives, it won't be to head South to KL, it will be to realize he must turn back North and help Jon fight the only war that matters. 

 

I think having Brie in the North is going to be interesting as well since she holds some small tie to Jamie who could end up bringing Dorne and other Southern kingdoms into this fight.  The show runners have finally started putting some of the key pieces into play, but they will likely need almost of all season six and part of season seven to get everyone that matters North to fight the final battle.

Edited June 1, 2015 by nksarmi

[Winnief]

I'm also hoping that Brienne's somehow going to send word to Jaime to get him to come up North. 

[nksarmi]

You know what I hope - I hope the show runners and HBO get together soon and decide without a doubt how many seasons this show has left in it.  If HBO wants it complete in seven, I hope they stick to that. If the channel misses it's show after seven seasons, they can always go back and tell prequel stories.  I just really want them to be able to develop a good plan for what needs to happen in season six so they can get to a satisfying ending. 

 

The fact that GRRM isn't even sure if he is going to need an eighth book tells me that his ending might not even end up being the ending he told D&D so they are kind of on their own anyway.  At I'm fairly certain that the only way they can get to a solid ending at this point is to know for sure, how many seasons they have left to tell that tale.

[Mya Stone]

Eh, I tend to think (maybe optimistically so) that George's ending is still the same - he's just gotten so off track that he's not quite sure how to tie it up in a timely (heh) manner.

[SeanC]

I guess we all have different wishes and all, but I cannot - will not - believe that the show has put a Stark back in Winterfell just to have her flee.  I want Ramsey, Roose, and even Littlefinger to all fall while Sansa rises to power in Winterfell.  I believe Davos or Brie will end up seeking out Rickon in season six and Sansa will be in Winterfell to welcome her brother home when he is found.

I really don't see how Sansa somehow taking over Winterfell would be remotely credible at this point.  There's been nothing whatsoever to suggest it, and the writers have effectively written out things like the Northern lords at Winterfell, which is now garrisoned solely by Bolton loyalists.  The extent of Stark support has been shown to be two old people, one of whom is dead and the other not even resident in the castle.

 

The fact that GRRM isn't even sure if he is going to need an eighth book tells me that his ending might not even end up being the ending he told D&D so they are kind of on their own anyway.

I don't think it's the ending that's the issue as far as an eighth book goes, it's the size of the story involved in getting to that ending that has always been growing.

[Avaleigh]

Now that we have a better idea of what the realm is up against as far as the White Walker situation, it made me want to take inventory as far as how many Valyrian steel weapons we have on the show because in the books GRRM makes it seem like there are hundreds but on the show I feel like we've only had a handful of mentions.

 

Jon has Longclaw, Brienne has Oathkeeper, Tommen presumably has Widow's Wail although I suppose Jaime could get or use it later on. We have the dagger that was used to try to kill Bran but I don't know who ended up with it. Catelyn had it for awhile so I suppose Littlefinger could have gotten it back via Lysa. Or maybe Cat had it on her when she died and it's in the hands of a Frey.

 

We've also had a mention of Dark Sister on the show but we have no confirmation of its current whereabouts. Am I missing any other VS weapons that were named on the show? Arya mentioning it made me wonder if she might somehow get her hands on it one day.

 

Even in the books I think I'd assumed at one point that all of the Great Houses except the Lannisters had a VS sword but I checked and the Targaryens, Starks, and Lannisters (when they had Brightroar) seem like they're the only great houses that we know for sure who had or still have a VS blade. The Lannisters currently have two (Brienne is technically borrowing it for her mission, right?), the Starks no longer have Ice, and Dany doesn't have any either. I don't think Blackfyre has been mentioned on the show at all. (I'm actually shocked that so many of the big family names in the series have seemingly never possessed a VS blade. Baratheon, Martell, Tully, Greyjoy, Arryn, etc. When things like this come up I can sort of see how some people consider the Daynes, Hightowers, and Harlaws, etc to be great houses in everything but name.) 

 

Dawn doesn't seem like it's going to appear on the show though and it isn't VS anyway. (Have we even had a mention of House Dayne on the show?) The Tarlys definitely have a VS blade but I can't remember what it's called. Since we're meeting the family next season I think we could get a mention of it. Sam might even end up with it if the Tarly family ends up being attacked by the Greyjoys. 

 

So on the show we have at best maybe five VS weapons? Yikes. Hopefully more will be recovered.  

 

They need to get the Citadel to send them as much dragonglass as possible. And the dragonglass that they do have needs to be made into spears or arrows or something because the way that it is in its current form I just don't see how that would be super helpful. 

[Pogojoco]

Now that we have a better idea of what the realm is up against as far as the White Walker situation, it made me want to take inventory as far as how many Valyrian steel weapons we have on the show because in the books GRRM makes it seem like there are hundreds but on the show I feel like we've only had a handful of mentions.

 

Jon has Longclaw, Brienne has Oathkeeper, Tommen presumably has Widow's Wail although I suppose Jaime could get or use it later on. We have the dagger that was used to try to kill Bran but I don't know who ended up with it. Catelyn had it for awhile so I suppose Littlefinger could have gotten it back via Lysa. Or maybe Cat had it on her when she died and it's in the hands of a Frey.

 

We've also had a mention of Dark Sister on the show but we have no confirmation of its current whereabouts. Am I missing any other VS weapons that were named on the show? Arya mentioning it made me wonder if she might somehow get her hands on it one day.

 

Even in the books I think I'd assumed at one point that all of the Great Houses except the Lannisters had a VS sword but I checked and the Targaryens, Starks, and Lannisters (when they had Brightroar) seem like they're the only great houses that we know for sure who had or still have a VS blade. The Lannisters currently have two (Brienne is technically borrowing it for her mission, right?), the Starks no longer have Ice, and Dany doesn't have any either. I don't think Blackfyre has been mentioned on the show at all. (I'm actually shocked that so many of the big family names in the series have seemingly never possessed a VS blade. Baratheon, Martell, Tully, Greyjoy, Arryn, etc. When things like this come up I can sort of see how some people consider the Daynes, Hightowers, and Harlaws, etc to be great houses in everything but name.) 

 

Dawn doesn't seem like it's going to appear on the show though and it isn't VS anyway. (Have we even had a mention of House Dayne on the show?) The Tarlys definitely have a VS blade but I can't remember what it's called. Since we're meeting the family next season I think we could get a mention of it. Sam might even end up with it if the Tarly family ends up being attacked by the Greyjoys. 

 

So on the show we have at best maybe five VS weapons? Yikes. Hopefully more will be recovered.  

 

They need to get the Citadel to send them as much dragonglass as possible. And the dragonglass that they do have needs to be made into spears or arrows or something because the way that it is in its current form I just don't see how that would be super helpful. 

After I posted my Valyrian Steel post in the Speculation thread- I've decided I want Brienne to present Oathkeeper to Sansa and Sansa either delivers it to Jon Snow herself or has Brienne do it as her champion.

 

Do it, show. DO IT.