S03.E04: Honeymoons

[Empress1]

I don't think he's ugly but he's very carefully, hipsterishly styled, and it's in a way that appeals to a very specific type. An old friend who lives in Williamsburg would have yelled "YES!" and run down the aisle toward Neil upon seeing him. She's now married to a blond version of Neil. Sam is very basic, and as such I think a number of men could find something to find attractive about her (although IMO she's the least attractive of the three by far); Neil's look is hand-crafted and isn't going to appeal to everyone.

[girlplease]

Neil is kind of basic in his own way, though; his look is hipster 101. Still, you're right - it's probably too specific for this kind of show, which generally casts the blandly attractive. I don't see any point in "ranking" them for that reason (among others).

Someone upthread mentioned Neil seething - I totally agree! But I don't think he's passive - he's easygoing and softspoken, but his answers are direct. When Sam suggested that he might feel more comfortable if they switched outfits (she is the actual worst) you can hear him respond "No, that's a terrible idea." He's awfully diplomatic with her. It's such a weird dynamic to observe.

I felt terrible for Ashley with the reveal that she was in a 9-year relationship that ended only a year ago. I can only imagine that the dating world was terrifying for her - she hasn't had to put herself out there, like, ever, in her adult life. As others mentioned, maybe this show seemed like a shortcut back to the safety of a relationship. In any case, it makes sense that those skills are rusty.

That said, David is approaching her exactly the wrong way and I think it's telling that he doesn't realize it at all. He's peppering her with banal questions just trying to get a reaction, any reaction - can't blame him, I'm sure he's getting desperate for any sign of life. He'd have better luck asking one thoughtful question, giving her time and space to answer and actually reveal herself a bit - than a thousand bits of small talk that reveal nothing (what's your favorite color? Dude...) Don't be so scared of the silences, David!

Edited December 29, 2015 by girlplease

[Snarklepuss]

I think you guys might be right that David is being a little smothery and needy-oppressive, which is only making Ashley retreat even more.  She could be looking more closed off and unwilling to enter into a give and take with him because of that, but it could be with good reason.  I think he needs to back off and give her more space and maybe she'll come around.....or maybe not.

 

I too thought Neil looked like a terrorist in the beginning before he cut the beard down, but I didn't want to say it because I thought it was kind of cruel.  But geez, the guy should have a clue about how he looks.  If people think "terrorist" when they look at you, it's time to change....Not that people should let others dictate how they should look, but when it gets into that kind of territory they shouldn't need a therapist to tell them to trim the beard.

[Vivigirl10]

I like David by far the best out of this bunch so I don't want to pick on him.  This is hard to phrase, because I know that David is trying his best to get to know Ashley. But he's been allowed to participate in this farce where he was able to snap his fingers and, "poof!", a bride was produced for him.  No waiting necessary! Now he also instantly wants to be able to be head over heels in love and rave on and on about his "wife".  If I were Ashley, this would put me off.  He doesn't know her at all as a person.  Hold back on the excitement and smothering a bit until you truly see what you've got here.  (And to be clear, I'm NOT defending Ashley, just thinking about how I may feel in her shoes).   

 

This whole "experiment" rubs me the wrong way.  Probably because I was 40 before I met my One (42 when we were married).  Sometimes it just takes a realllly looong time, longer than you may like, for that magical mix of ingredients to finally come together for you to cross paths with the person you fall in love with.  These jokers seem to feel entitled to just skip over that waiting period!  

 

The whole level of attractiveness discussion is really interesting.  If the participants really were asked to rate a variety of people on their level of attractiveness, I'd have a hard time with that.  Just because I recognize someone as highly attractive within the general population, doesn't mean they are the type of man I'd like to date!  For instance, blindly presented to the public, I would think Tres would get rated higher than David.  But I would ten million times rather date David because I would find him much more attractive based on my personal opinion.   

[girlplease]

Kiki, ITA with your whole post!

[qtpye]

Neil is a heck of a nice guy, but yeah, not going to be for everyone.  I hate to say this, but I thought the main reason that he was such good friends with his ex was that he wanted to prove a guy like him dated a pretty girl like her.  Anyway, I hope Sam is a little nicer to him going forward.

[kam]

I Agree. David is given a lot because he got stuck with someone that didn't like him. Other than thewhole my wife doesn't like me edit he is pretty bland and not very attractive. In other words I'm not buying what he's selling. I think the most genuine guy there is Neil by far.

[Vinyasa]

I felt terrible for Ashley with the reveal that she was in a 9-year relationship that ended only a year ago. I can only imagine that the dating world was terrifying for her - she hasn't had to put herself out there, like, ever, in her adult life.

 

No one should feel bad Ashley.

She signed the show's contract  and said "I do" to  a marriage that is legal. She chose to put herself out there on this show!

[seasick]

I think it's hard to judge David's personality because he was matched with Ashley, and all that we see that has come with that.

 

If he had been matched with a happy, outgoing girl who was more into him and emotionally available, I think we would see a much different David.      He seems very fun-loving by nature.   He'd be romping in the pool and having a ball.  Even with Ashley he was always smiling.  I find that so endearing.  He's been so patient and kind.   

 

Now we see him spending his time trying to figure out Ashley's comfort level (which is basically 'leave me alone') and working hard to get to know her.  (hey Ashley,that was the deal)  He's having to do double time, so it does appear as needy and crowding.

 

I think when he was standing alone by the pool and said    I'm hurt", I'm disappointed "i feel like I'm vacationing  by myself"   he was ready to throw in the towel.  No doubt the production staff coerced Ashley to give David at least the 'time of day' and respect to come down,  talk to him and say how she was feeling.  I think that moment for him was authentic and he finally came to terms with his own disappointment and frustration. 

 

Neil, on the other hand has never expressed any disappointment with the match.  He seems to put all his feelings aside.  he stays in the cerebral.focusing on what they might learn from each other, etc.     I get it,  , but it's aloof in it's own way.       

 .   

[henrysmom]

I have a question--the $100,000 contestants supposedly get.  Is that undeniably true or a rumor?  Does anybody have a link to the information?  If it is true, is that amount split between the couple, payable only if the marriage lasts past the six weeks, or have any other strings attached?

[Vinyasa]

According to these articles, they get paid next to nothing!! Which makes sense, they are there to get a spouse not a paid acting role, right?

 

http://www.bustle.com/articles/81287-married-at-first-sight-couples-arent-paid-to-get-married-theyre-in-this-for-the

 

http://www.thewrap.com/9-married-at-first-sight-burning-questions/

Edited December 29, 2015 by Vinyasa

[humbleopinion]

David would have been a good match for a 5 years younger Jacklyn.

Yuckfest all day long.

 

RyanD and Sam.

His overtly macho vibe would have turned her on.

Branch manager so his personal ATM machine "Bring hundies home, baby."

Mutual dead grandparent worship in common.

 

Sean and Ashley.

ER Nurse and nursing student in common.

Her tumor and cranium history would have been a good topic of conversation while driving.

Edited December 29, 2015 by humbleopinion

[Jellybeans]

Well I happen to think Neil is cute. :-)

[BonnieLass]

I have a question--the $100,000 contestants supposedly get.  Is that undeniably true or a rumor?  Does anybody have a link to the information?  If it is true, is that amount split between the couple, payable only if the marriage lasts past the six weeks, or have any other strings attached?

I believe the $100,00 story started getting passed around the internet because of the Married at First Sight: The First Year couples. After doing the regular show AND the new follow-up series, the two couples from the first season have been estimated to have made that much as a cumulative figure (per couple). They were paid a lot more per episode for the follow up series.

 

At least, that is my understanding of it.

 

Edit: This made me start thinking, so I ran some numbers. On multiple occasions, I've read that the participants are paid $1,500 per week for the series (a "nothing" stipend, I believe it was called).  

 

(Side note - I don't know about y'all, but $1,500 isn't "nothing" to me!!))

 

There are typically 13 episodes per MAFS season; that's $19,500 per participant/per season, so as a couple, they would have made $39,000.

 

Then, suppose they got a bump up to $2,500 per week for MAFS: The First Year.  Season 1 was 9 episodes (season 2 has 7 so far, with more to come). Each participant would have made $22,500 for season 1; as a couple, that's $45,000.  

 

That totals $84,000 per couple for the first two seasons (MAFS and MAFS:TFY).

 

If you add in the additional money for the current 7 episodes of season 2 of MAFS:TFY (and assume there was no increase in pay), that tacks on another $35,000, bringing their grand total to $119,000.

 

That's a lot of money. It's not enough to convince ME to be on national television, but still.... it's a lot of money.

Edited December 29, 2015 by BonnieLass

[BonnieLass]

I know this is off topic, but may I just say...I've visited lots of boards where people discuss MAFS (what can I say? I'm obsessed!).

 

This forum seems to be the only one where there are adults having mature conversations. No hating on each other...no attacks on other's opinions... I love it. Thank you all for making me feel welcome (and unafraid to post things).  ❤

[humbleopinion]

Honor among thieves.

United... we snark.

[ketose]

David speaks in platitudes. That "I believe that love can grow" line seemed like something from a Lifetime movie. I'm skeptical.

He probably speaks in producer lines. They'll say something like "Do you believe that love can grow?" He'll say yes and they'll ask him to repeat the whole line.

 

I think the stipend is good if you don't have another source of employment. It looks like you have to take a lot of time off to do the show with various getaways and the little marriage tasks. It sounded like David makes 175K? If that's the case, he certainly doesn't need no stinking stipend. All the guys on S2 seemed like deadbeats, so they probably jumped at getting paid to do a TV show.

[JenE4]

I'm a bit late to the ratings game, but I want to play along! I think the women are all slightly higher rated in the looks dept than their counterparts, but they're still in the margin of error that they look evenly matched. No one would be getting any "What is SHE doing with HIM?!" type reactions on the streets.

Neil 3, Sam 4

David 4, Ashley 5

Tres 7.5, Vanessa 9

[SneakyCentipede]

 I was not happy to hear him say "I AM very passive".(I think it should have been more "I CAN be very passive" )   But it did seem that she meant it as an attack,  and by agreeing and affirming it,  it was his way of saying so "Yeah,so what?" , "no apologies here".,,  Neil's approach reminds of of what I think is the philosophy of Judo.  Win by using the other persons aggression and strength against them-- -sidestep the punch and let them throw themselves off-balance. Then grab the momentum and take them down.  He did catch her off-balance with his "don't call me pussy remark"  (it smacked her in the face and she went off to lick her wounds and call Daddy).   .   .  

This explaination you gave is a perfect description of how Neil is countering her attacks in a way that throws her off balance. I was trying to say this exact thing to my husband when we watched and couldn't find the right words; I may have to copy/paste what you wrote and email it to him lol. Sam seems to be hoping to either make him cry, or make him lash out and "show his manlyness" by whatever abusive standards it seems like she might be used to. But with his matter of fact owning his personality and making no apologies for it and stating he is willing to compromise but not change who he is confuses her and completely throws her off "her game"; which she seems to think is really cute and super funny but it's not. I am in no way defending the SheBeast but I did read their bios and it seems she comes from a military family that moved around alot throughout her whole childhood. I could see this brash, insulting as comedy, attention seeking, I dont care what you think, attitude as something she developed to both make a splash in whatever new place her family landed, but also as a defense mechanism to not allow anyone to get to close to her. However, instead of heading to FYI for a casting call she should have taken her ass to a psychologist for several years of intensive therapy to work this ish out if she ever wants to find someone who can stand her for more than 5 min.

[SneakyCentipede]

During his Skype call with Vanessa, Cilona said that Tres has been looking for marriage for 2 years, but Tres clearly told to Vanessa, that he didn't think about marraige before receiving the "oppurtunity". Did Tres lie to the "experts" to get on this show, or is Cilona lying to Vanessa?

Cilona lies constantly; see Season 2. He is such a pompous douche I have to walk out of the room every time his talking heads come on.

[SneakyCentipede]

 I think that before the experts match the couples they should do stuff like show women photos of say 15 possible men on one sheet and ask them to pick out the men they found attractive and which they did not find attractive.  If any of the guys the experts are seriously considering for them falls into the "not attractive" pile they shouldn't match them with the woman, period.  I realize they may be working with a smaller pool of men but in future seasons I think they should expand their search if they want this show to succeed.  I don't think they should compromise on other compatibility factors just for physical attraction.

I had the same thought about showing pictures of similiar looking men to gauge attraction! I do believe that a person's personality can effect their looks both positively and negatively. But in my experience there is no coming back from someone you just find outright unappealing. From what the experts say they ask questions like "hair color preference". So, let's say I fill out the question and say I prefer dark haired men. Just for fun I googled "dark haired men" to see the first few responses,  I got Brody Jenner, Chris Evans, Johnny Depp, and Marilyn Manson; and then we have Neil. None of these men to me would fall into the same category of what one might find attractive. Same could go for height preference, eye color, etc. The pictures would be perfect! They could easily get stock photos online to resemble the men they have in the casting pool. It's funny how it took us regular old non-expects all of 3 seconds to come up with this idea separately and you put 4 so-called experts in a room with all their "diagnostic tools" and this thought never occured to them

[Jack Sampson]

I had the same thought about showing pictures of similiar looking men to gauge attraction!

They showed them doing that in the preparation episode. I wrote about it a few pages back.

They do this. It's not the actual contestants, but both men and women go through books of standardized graded people - yes it exists - and they choose whether or not they find anyone attractive. Some start to consider people attractive at 4, some at 8. I'm guessing they eliminate people who are only attracted to 9+s.

[okerry]

I had the same thought about showing pictures of similiar looking men to gauge attraction! I do believe that a person's personality can effect their looks both positively and negatively. But in my experience there is no coming back from someone you just find outright unappealing. From what the experts say they ask questions like "hair color preference". So, let's say I fill out the question and say I prefer dark haired men. Just for fun I googled "dark haired men" to see the first few responses,  I got Brody Jenner, Chris Evans, Johnny Depp, and Marilyn Manson; and then we have Neil. None of these men to me would fall into the same category of what one might find attractive. Same could go for height preference, eye color, etc. The pictures would be perfect! They could easily get stock photos online to resemble the men they have in the casting pool. It's funny how it took us regular old non-expects all of 3 seconds to come up with this idea separately and you put 4 so-called experts in a room with all their "diagnostic tools" and this thought never occured to them

Patti Stanger on *The Millionaire Matchmaker* just asks, "Who's your celebrity crush?" Her overall success rate on the show isn't too good, but she's usually quite good at finding the physical type the client actually likes just by asking that one question.

 

Edited to add: I think that naming a celebrity crush will tell you something about the energy the person is looking for, too, as well as just physical appearance. Chris Hemsworth is a tall blond, but so is Jon Heder (Napoleon Dynamite/Blades of Glory.) They might fit the same general physical description but have a very different energy/personality type, and could tell the spurts a lot about what these MAFS victims are actually looking for.

 

I mean, both Johnny Depp and Neil are medium height with dark hair and olive complexion, but Depp has a pretty face and delicate facial hair. Neil has neither. And Depp, when being himself, is too cool for school and very quietly confident. Neil, um - isn't. He's a nice guy, but very low key. Depp's quiet, but not low key. It's different. 

 

Come on, show! Get spurts to start asking for a few examples of celebrity crushes and maybe the success rate will pick up a little!

Edited January 4, 2016 by okerry

[Snarklepuss]

I had the same thought about showing pictures of similiar looking men to gauge attraction! I do believe that a person's personality can effect their looks both positively and negatively. But in my experience there is no coming back from someone you just find outright unappealing. From what the experts say they ask questions like "hair color preference". So, let's say I fill out the question and say I prefer dark haired men. Just for fun I googled "dark haired men" to see the first few responses,  I got Brody Jenner, Chris Evans, Johnny Depp, and Marilyn Manson; and then we have Neil. None of these men to me would fall into the same category of what one might find attractive. Same could go for height preference, eye color, etc. The pictures would be perfect! They could easily get stock photos online to resemble the men they have in the casting pool. It's funny how it took us regular old non-expects all of 3 seconds to come up with this idea separately and you put 4 so-called experts in a room with all their "diagnostic tools" and this thought never occured to them

 

My original thought was to show the women photos of the actual men along with similar looking people.  They'd never know that some of the photos are of the real men they might be matched with and what better way to find out if they have any attraction to them than by showing them the actual guys themselves?

 

It's weird, though.  I once saw a ringer for my husband at a Scottish fair.  He was playing the bagpipes so I hung around to get a good look at him.  After the band finished playing he walked up to a food truck to get a soda.  I was absolutely fascinated by the resemblance and couldn't stop looking at him.  Then he started talking to some of his fellow pipers and I was not prepared for how I would react to this - His personality was nothing like my husband's.  In fact, he was so different I felt let down and disappointed because I guess I expected him to at least be somewhat interesting to me.  There was just no spark or attraction at all, and the guy struck me as a total bore.  I realized right there how much personality can affect how I feel about someone.  So even if the women liked the photos they may feel differently about the guys after they meet them.  I wouldn't be surprised if the experts matched them with guys that looked very similar to guys they found attractive, but they still would complain about not feeling attracted to them after the wedding!

[SFoster21]

I was in law school with a guy who was a dead ringer for Robert Redford. But the guy was a total cipher, like a zombie RR. For me, brains and wit count with a guy.

I can't believe that a guy finds Vanessa "chubby."

She has an adorable figure, you ask me.

I'm sorry, but Neil seems so gay to me. His clothes are awful!

[Crazy Bird Lady]

It seems like Ashley has not dated much. I think she did it for the money. Her mom said in a fb post that Ashley was in school full-time and nannying. I bet money is tight.

 

Apparently, money isn't ''tight" anymore, now that David is paying the bills.

I hate to say this, because I was cheering for that couple - but at this point it looks like Ashley is just sticking it out for the 6 weeks for the money and the creature comforts. It's pretty obvious she doesn't want to be with David, and doesn't really want to try to get to know him any better, either.

[Lola16]

Was there a reason given for why Ashley's and David's honeymoon was in AZ?

[Adeejay]

Was there a reason given for why Ashley's and David's honeymoon was in AZ?

 

That cold, humorless bitch would never go to a locale where she'd have to wear a bathing suit. 

[Lola16]

Well that sheds a lot of light.