B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[Zoe116]

Someone needs to tell Hope that there is a middle ground between "My mom and I are super close and BFFs who braid each other's hair" and "We basically don't talk to each other." Both times that Hope was like, "Sorry for assuming you guys were super close like me and my mom," I just wanted Flo to snap, "Uh, we are? And also, can you please stop babbling my personal business to literally everyone?" 

And, like, I know that Flo was never pregnant and that Hope isn't actually telling everyone her real business, so Flo has no actual reason to be mad at her, but seriously, Hope? Maybe they are super close, but Flo knows her mom is super anti-adoption, and when she found out she was pregnant she knew adoption was right for her, so she chose not to tell her mom to avoid a huge fight. And, yes, I know this is a ridiculous point to get stuck on because Flo was never pregnant so she never had an internal struggle about her mother's hypothetical anti-adoption stance, but I just couldn't with that today.

This story would be a lot better if Flo didn't know Hope was Phoebe's mother. They still could have basically the same story, with Hope confiding her pain in Flo, and Flo feeling guilty because she was causing some anonymous woman the same pain as Hope. Flo could have decided to investigate things and figure out who the real mom was so she could tell her the truth (maybe even get Wyatt involved in the search, since he's pretty morally ambiguous and likely wouldn't judge her... until he found out she helped steal his brother's baby) just at the same time that Phoebe has her convenient medical crisis that requires something from a blood relative. Flo would have an "Oh shit" moment, thinking she has to come clean, but then Donna or Will or someone would be a match, causing her to figure out Hope is Phoebe's mom--then she could tell the truth. Hope/Brooke/whomever could still be justifiably angry with her for her part in the deception, but she wouldn't be in Babe Carey territory of hateful monster. (Sidenote: I would give anything for Jacob Young to come back for a day for this reveal... double points if Heather Tom is also involved.)

I also call BS on the Logan sisters realizing that Steffy is raising a Logan and not one of them making a snarky comment about Taylor's head exploding when she finds out. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

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I also call BS on the Logan sisters realizing that Steffy is raising a Logan and not one of them making a snark y comment about Taylor's head exploding when she finds out. 

I call b.s. on none of them realizing they have a legal opening to snatch that Logan baby away from Taylor and Steffy and bring her into the family fold. Maybe that'll roll out in the coming days after the shock of suddenly having a new niece and cousin settles down. It'll be funny if Brooke asks Carter to handle it. She'll probably have to ask Bill if she can borrow Justin.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[nilyank]

Doesn't Flo have like 6 months to change her mind on the adoption if this was a real adoption and that was really her baby?

[Zoe116]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

call b.s. on none of them realizing they have a legal opening to snatch that Logan baby away from Taylor and Steffy and bring her into the family fold.

Oh, I think Brooke definitely realized with her musing about whether finding out she had more family would change anything for Flo regarding Phoebe, and Hope quickly shutting that down. 

[ByTor]

7 hours ago, nilyank said:

Doesn't Flo have like 6 months to change her mind on the adoption if this was a real adoption and that was really her baby?

True, but hasn't this story been going on for like 2 years now?  At least it feels like 2 years the way it's dragging on 😉

[RuntheTable]

They are butchering this SL. As much as I love Hope, I was shouting for someone to stick a damn sock in her mouth yesterday. Yes, Flo is Phoebe's birth mother, yes, you two are cousins, yes, Flo is now a Logan. That has all been established. So shut up. And for Heaven's sake, stop spilling this woman's personal business to all and sundry! Fake or not, lie or not, it just is not right. 

I expected much more from the Logan sisters. I wanted fireworks and shouting and OMGS!!! I am also disappointed that Rick and Bridget are not being included; this effects them as well. Maybe down the road someone will clue them in that they have a new cousin. 

I felt really sad for Brooke when she said "We'll have dinner for you soon. And, of course, you can come too Shauna." It seemed like a desperate plea. Like Brooke was afraid she wouldn't see Flo again. 

I hate to admit it, but Shauna isn't bothering me as much as I expected. I like how, even though Flo is an adult, her mom still has some sway over her. When Shauna pulled out the whole name, "Florence, answer my question", and Flo ponied up with the details, that told me a lot about this mother and daughter relationship. As much as I love Brooke/Hope's bond, I think sometimes it is a little too fluffy, and maybe the lines and boundaries are a little too smudged. Flo and Shauna clearly love each other, but when mommy wants answers, mommy gets them. 

Rena and Don, wholly cow! Now, I can't say they have your traditional type chemistry, but they certainly have an energy that is solely unto them. I also think it is nice that they are letting them appreciate each other as parents, and for Bill to acknowledge that Quinn has done a good job with Wyatt. They have such a unique relationship, actually, very much like mine and Mr. R's. We don't engage in the lovey dovey stuff, you won't be hearing things like "honey, sweetie pie", or "my angel", or "baby sweet cheeks" in the RunTheTable household. We tend to simplify things; he is Man and I am Woman. If I am really excited, you might here "My Man!", or "Way to go Man!" We do love each other though, and tell each other that on a daily basis; we just don't engage in the other stuff. That is exactly how I see Bill and Quinn; they don't pull any punches with each other. I mean, when Bill lobs comments like this "And hear I speak so highly of you and your broomstick" and Quinn comes back with "You know, ironically, the one man who passed through my life who I could hopefully never see or hear from ever again has given me the greatest gift I could ever have", now that is a relationship I can hang with. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by RuntheTable

[ByaNose]

I really like Don ($Bill) and Rena (Quinn) talking and acting like normal people. They usually have to play OTT but here they are talking about everything but it's not boring. I appreciate that. They don't trust or like each other but they were able to have a normal conversation about all the people around them. I'm not sure what made Brad Bell do this but I do like that he's attempting it.

[Joimiaroxeu]

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Oh, I think Brooke definitely realized with her musing about whether finding out she had more family would change anything for Flo regarding Phoebe, and Hope quickly shutting that down. 

Yikes, you're right. I went back and rewatched that scene because Brooke's comment apparently passed me by the first time. (She was kind of vague...) However, I don't think Hope shut the idea down permanently; she seemed to be shutting it down for the moment. I expect Brooke won't let it go, especially if Taylor starts up with trying to break up Hope's marriage again.

[JAYJAY1979]

I do agree that Shauna/Flo have a normal parent/child bond...love each other..but are honest with one another.

Brooke/hope being super close has never made sense to me...nor is the fact that Brooke/Katie are cool with each other.  I could never be close to someone that slept with my significant other..I just couldn't...but that's just me.

Seeing Flo/Shauna..it reminds me that the show used to have complex mother/daughter relationships.  Kristen/stephanie...felicia/stephanie... macy/sally... even beth/brooke was interesting.  The show lacks that now.

[ByaNose]

I meant to add that I like how Brad is writting Denise Richards (Shauna) character. I thought she was going to be this scheming trailer trash on the wrong side of the tracks character. A little like Tawny Moore played by Andrea Evans or even Quinn. Currently, she is a nice and smart person and wants her daughter to tell the truth. She seemed to really like that the Logan's were nice people, too.

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I could never be close to someone that slept with my significant other

If these characters felt the same, nobody would be speaking to each other 🙂

[Zoe116]

9 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

However, I don't think Hope shut the idea down permanently; she seemed to be shutting it down for the moment. I expect Brooke won't let it go, especially if Taylor starts up with trying to break up Hope's marriage again.

Oh, for sure. I feel like Hope has adopted Steffy's attitude toward their mothers: they love them, and love being around them when it comes to any other topic, but realize they're never going to get anything resembling sanity when it comes to Brooke vs. Taylor, so they just try to keep the crazy at bay for a while whenever it comes up. 

But no way in hell is brooke giving up on this. 

I totally get Brooke calling a meeting to tell Ridge and Eric, but Pam and Charlie get an invite? Really? Couldn't they at least have dropped a line where Eric asked if Rick/Bridget knew, and Brooke was like, "well, yes, obviously I called them first"? But lol at ridge's "let's not tell Taylor."

i know something ridiculous will happen to keep the truth from coming out, but until it does, I'm finding flo/shawna's scenes super refreshing... How unusual for a parent on this show to care more about their child's mental wellbeing than "winning."

[Waldo13]

Do Pam and Charlie even know that they live in LA?  Do they know that lemon bars don’t feed the world?

Listening to Flo explain the whole story to Shanna makes it sound even more absurd.  

Good scene between Flo and Shanna. KB can really bring out the heart brake that Flo is feeling Hope and her conflicted soul.  Kudos KB, Kudos.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Come on, couldn't Brooke just have posted the big news on FacePlace instead of calling a meeting at FC? And wouldn't Quinn have already told Eric?

Flo didn't "lose" her child, at least not in the same sense that Hope did. IMO, Flo should strongly discourage that interpretation of what happened, especially since she's seen up close how emotionally fragile Hope is.

Hmm, everyone wants to delay Steffy and Taylor hearing the news about Flo. Guess that would be a reason not to put it on social media. Or call a press conference. (Looking at you, Hope.) I bet somebody will accidentally blab though. Maybe Thomas?

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Brooke /hope being super close has never made sense to me...

Me either. Brooke has no boundaries as far as Hope is concerned and Hope loves to have an audience for her constant yammering about herself. They're symbiotic and I think it's particularly unhealthy for Hope.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[TessHarding2]

I'm so tired of beach wave hairstyles on the show.

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[CountryGirl]

On 4/16/2019 at 5:06 PM, lightninggirl said:

OMG Rocco! You're so right - I forgot about her pining for him and her acne. I haven't thought about him in years!

And Rocco only had eyes for Donna as we can see here.

Poor teenage Katie and her acne.

[CountryGirl]

I agree that Hope needs to shut up already but I'm too busy enjoying the fact that Stormy Logan lives on and that Flo (even thought I still hate her name) is a Logan to mind too much.

I love how the Logan sisters and Hope welcomed her with open arms. KB really does look like a Logan and she could pass for Brooke or Donna's daughter even more so than AN. And KB is the silver lining in the otherwise terrible Phobeth storyline.

I can't deny that RS and DD have that sparkle - not quite as much as KKL and DD, but I digress. I did like that Bill told his temp admin that Brooke was welcome anytime. But if TPTB wanted to revisit Quill, I'd be okay with that. Certainly it would be far more entertaining than Batie and no offense to JMc but we barely see Queric anymore.

I'm really enjoying Shauna, which I didn't expect given I can't stand DR but I agree that the Shauna/Flo relationship is so much more realistic. I also loved when she got Flo to stop tapdancing around the adoption just by calling her "Florence." It's always serious when your mom uses your formal name. But they have a nice chemistry so dare I say I won't mind if Shauna sticks around awhile? And OMG, can you imagine her going toe to toe with Hauxdi and Lippy when the secret does come out? Of course, that will be five years from now so I don't DR will be on for that long. But then again, KB was only supposed to be on long enough for the baby swap so who can say?

Edited April 18, 2019 by CountryGirl

[Anna Yolei]

Speaking of Pam and Charlie, weren't they supposed to be getting married? What happened to all that?

16 hours ago, Zoe116 said:

How unusual for a parent on this show to care more about their child's mental wellbeing than "winn

God, that's so sad, right? I just assumed Shawna was going to be yet another scheming mother too, and I'm pleasantly surprised to be wrong.

15 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Brooke has no boundaries as far as Hope is concerned and Hope loves to have an audience for her constant yammering about herself. They're symbiotic and I think it's particularly unhealthy for Hope.

Back when Hope was first aged up,the show made a point of noting how sheltered she was in comparison to Rick and Bridget and it stemmed directly from the circumstances of her birth. There was so much that could've been unpacked from that, but as we all know, it became about the ToD 2.0 and Hope  was an unknowing pawn in Katie's vendetta against Steffy. No legacy character had more potential to have an interesting story arc than Hope and none, with the exception of Aly, has seen that potential so throughly squandered.

[CharlizeCat]

1 hour ago, Anna Yolei said:

Speaking of Pam and Charlie, weren't they supposed to be getting married? What happened to all that?

Pam decided to postpone any wedding. I think the stress of the battle with Quinn over where to hold the ceremony, pushed Pam to the breaking point.  I think the writers realized that the story wasn't going anywhere. Pam was looking like a pathetic victim, Quinn like a raving vindictive bitch and Eric was caught in the middle, but siding with Pam. IMO, none of the factors in that equation led to a promising SL (but when has that stopped Bell?) Anyway, there was a muddied explanation that the time wasn't right ... honestly, it was so long ago and so insignificant, that I've forgotten the finer details. Anyway, who cares.

Speaking of Charlie, I read an outlandish spumor that HE is going to be the one to put two and two together about Phoebeth and Hope. I sure hope not. We don't need him and Pam bumbling around playing Scooby Do. I want for Flo to be the one to tell Hope. I like KB. But ... a red flag kind of went up with me yesterday by the reappearance of "Charm."

Of course, Sludge discovers that he has a new niece and immediately thinks of Hauxdi. Some things never change. I sure don't miss Hauxdi and Lippy.

Edited April 18, 2019 by CharlizeCat

[nkotb]

^^Charlie was the first one to put together that Maya had gender-reassignment surgery, based on the pills she was taking. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he put the whole PhoeBeth BS together. He made a robot into his daughter in his past life (on Small Wonder), this is nothing!

I really don't want $Bill & Quinn together, romantically, but I'd love to see them together for an episode a month, give or take, snarking & sparkling. They bring out something different in each other than anyone else. It's like a begrudging respect for the way Wyatt was raised (from Bill), & a begrudging respect for the way Bill has accepted Wyatt & improved his life (from Quinn). Nothing romantic, just pretty, snarky, & sparkly. 

Also, color me happy, but I'm decidedly not hating Denise Richards, or Shauna. She seems like a normal mom, not an absentee mom, or someone who's overly involved, Brooke. I did appreciate that she wasn't threatened by all of the new, overbearing women, welcoming Flo into their life, without hesitation. Instead, she seemed so relieved that they accepted her, & immediately loved her & welcomed her, as well as Shauna herself. I'm shocked that that stunt-casting hasn't been bad at all, & while I don't want her with my $Bill, but she can stick around for a while.

KB really was a great snag for this show, probably the best addition in the last 5 years or more. I really like her.  

Edited April 18, 2019 by nkotb

[Petunia13]

Damn is Flo the only sane one on this show? 

now shes being strong armed to keep the lie going by her own mother besides that long faced model and her Dod? Can’t a bitch be ethical?

Liam’s speech to Hope was heartbreaking.  

[Gam2]

I missed today’s show. What did Liam say to Hope?

[Waldo13]

As much as I love Wyatt/Sally I’m starting to love Flo/Wyatt even more.  I believe that Flo would give Wyatt unconditional love. I also believe that Sally still has a “thing” for Thomas. 

Thomas is a pompous ass hole just like his father.  He gives up Sally to be with Caroline but when that doesn’t work out he’s back to hit on Hope. Do you think that Thomas is going to be as tolerant as Liam when it come down to the born again virgin, Hope. 

Now Shanna is complicit with the cover up because she doesn’t want Flo to go to jail.  I can see that, but why doesn’t Shanna or even Flo hire a lawyer and find out if Flo turns states evidence can she get immunity from prosecution. 

[Petunia13]

16 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

I missed today’s show. What did Liam say to Hope?

He and Hope survived the unthinkable and wouldn’t have a reason to live but being together gave them a reason to live. That they went through the worst and to continue to carry on they needed each other. He said it so thoughtfully I knew he meant the dialogue but also the hidden meaning unsaid that their child would want this, God would want this. It was so sad. 

[Zoe116]

6 hours ago, nkotb said:

really don't want $Bill & Quinn together, romantically, but I'd love to see them together for an episode a month, give or take, snarking & sparkling

Agreed. I can forgive a lot of things on soaps, but she raped his son. That one's a deal breaker for me.

2 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

As much as I love Wyatt/Sally I’m starting to love Flo/Wyatt even more.  I believe that Flo would give Wyatt unconditional love. I also believe that Sally still has a “thing” for Thomas. 

Also agreed. They have a very easy chemistry, and it makes Wyatt's initial obsession with Hope make a lot more sense. But this Thomas stuff is insane. He should've come back still in love with Sally, she could've rebuffed him, all the while hope hired him as designer for Hftf with the two of them growing closer, and then he could decide he's in love with her if show really must go there. We've clearly got the time for a slow burn since the switch isn't ending anytime soon. 

Also? If the switch isn't ending anytime soon, can we stop having daily episodes of flo bleating that she needs to tell Hope? Like, can one of those days instead be Liam cornering her and asking her a million questions about Wyatt: most embarrassing Halloween costume, was he in the school play, best prank he ever pulled, whatever. Then she can spend the next episode crying about having to tell Liam AND hope. You know, for variety. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

FFS, Hope is still trying to push Liam back to Steffy via Kelly and Phoebeth. Why does no one see how much PPD has messed up her thought processes?

Quinn, Eric doesn't have the power to "forgive" felonies. Good grief.

"Go with the flow"? Again with that, writers?

Ugh, now I have to take back all my compliments about Shauna. Don't listen to her, Flo. Do the right thing!

[ByTor]

13 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

FFS, Hope is still trying to push Liam back to Steffy via Kelly and Phoebeth. Why does no one see how much PPD has messed up her thought processes?

I don't know, I think that's pretty clear thinking on Hope's part.  I know if that were me I'd be trying to get rid of him 🙂

[CharlizeCat]

Could we PLEASE see something different? I don't think I can stand another day of Hope wallowing around in despair and Flo wringing her hands over "should I tell her or not?"

How about Will playing matchmaker for Justin and Donna? That way, Donna can keep her nose out of Katie's love life and focus on her own.  What happened to Donna and Pam's plot to get Donna and Eric back together?

This sudden infatuation with Hope by Thomas is completely out of left field and couldn't be more forced. Are we supposed to believe that while Thomas was hot and heavy with Sally, that he was still pining away for Hope? He could have gone to Milan if that were the case. Stupid.

I do have to say that I've been impressed with Sludge since TK's return. He didn't seem pleased that Thomas is interested in Hope. Typically, he would have encouraged it in order to gift-wrap Waffle to return to Steffy. 

I also like Wyatt and Flo together. I have no basis for this, and I hope it doesn't happen, but I am beginning to wonder what is going to go on with Sally. It seems pretty obvious that Flott is on the horizon. If Thomas is going to pursue Hope, where does that leave Sally? Happily single with her star rising st FC would be great, but we all know that women in "Bell"-air  have no identity without a man.  

I agree with what others have written about KB/Flo turning out to be a pleasant surprise. I also think that she was supposed to be a short-term character and now that she's in the front burner SL, the canvas is getting crowded again. I guess we'll see proof if Flo and Shauna appear in newly-updated opening credits.

I also don't dislike Shauna either. I was expecting some trashy grifter hot to get her claws into a Forrester or Spencer man, but this doesn't appear to be the case (so far).

[bannana]

2 hours ago, CharlizeCat said:

If Thomas is going to pursue Hope, where does that leave Sally?

With Liam?

2 hours ago, CharlizeCat said:

I agree with what others have written about KB/Flo turning out to be a pleasant surprise.

I agree, but based on Shauna's initial reaction to Flo's clusterfuck, she should be running to a lawyer, to find out what their defense can be.  To tell Flo to continue the lie is insane, because Shauna knows that it is destroying Flo.  Flo was about to tell Hope, and then the paternity reveal happened.  Now, she is even more distressed.

[ByTor]

5 hours ago, bannana said:

8 hours ago, CharlizeCat said:

If Thomas is going to pursue Hope, where does that leave Sally?

With Liam?

But since no other men exist in LA, who would be with Steffy? Maybe Justin?  They'd be good as a couple of schemers.

[ByaNose]

How is nuThomas doing? I think I've only seen him twice. I still miss PF. He was so good and had such good chemistry with Courtney Hope.

[RuntheTable]

Well, Show can just step off with this shit. I am so done with the bait and switch and the dangling of carrots. We now have four Mother Fucker's who have the ability to end this mess. Who have the ability to make Hope whole again. I was so excited about Flo, I really was. It was nice to see the Logan legacy get a nod, but this feels all wrong and all bad. The longer Flo holds back the worse it will be. None of the Logan girls have any room to judge, they all have their terrible mistakes and their skeletons, but to have a new family member, their dead brother's daughter, continue to conspire and collude to keep this terrible lie? That just adds another layer of horrible to an already horrible SL. I have been watching soaps forever, as a kid I watched The Edge of Night and Search for Tomorrow and The Doctor's with a very young Elizabeth Hubbard. I have seen some really whack and some really disturbing SLs, but none of them have effected me the way this one has. I can't quite peg why it troubles me so much, it is just a soap after all, but there is something about that man putting that dead baby in Hope's arms that haunts me. And of course what we got from Annika and Scott in the following days was pretty amazing. I don't like any of it. They are clearly trying to change the canvas, and shake things up, with Flo's paternity, Wyatt/Sally/Flo, Batie, this Ridge doppelganger, Thomas /Douglas/Hope, Quinn and Shauna, Sally getting her own line at FC's, but sadly, none of it is enough for me. Beth flows underneath all of it like a foul, smoldering cesspool, that is going to explode all over everyone and destroy so many lives. 

Yeah, show can just fuck the hell right off with this shit. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by RuntheTable

[Joimiaroxeu]

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It seems pretty obvious that Flott is on the horizon. If Thomas is going t o pursue Hope, where does that leave Sally?

Sill? Bally? 🙄

Preach, RuntheTable! At this rate the whole population of LA will know the truth about Phoebeth and not one of them will bother to end Hope's misery and put that innocent child back with her true mommy.

[CountryGirl]

Co-signing everything you said @RuntheTable. It's why I'm barely watching. I know it's just a tv show, but it's starting to feel very wrong tuning in day after day, week after week, month after month, with Hope and Liam still no closer to being reunited with their daughter. 

And I know baby swaps are a soap staple (although that should have ended with the 80s/90s - it's almost 2020 FFS), but I can't get the image of Hope holding a dead baby (A DEAD BABY!) out of my head. I'm not sure I ever will.

Add in Flo, Hope's newly discovered cousin, continuing to keep the secret and her mother (I was rooting for you, Shauna! TM Tyra Banks) now doing a 180 and encouraging her daughter to keep the truth under wraps. The momentary joy of Flo being Stormy Logan's daughter has turned to ash as she knifes Hope in the back.

Thomas needs to stay the fuck away from Hope. His recollections of them having any kind of love story in the past are faulty as hell. It was borderline stalking at best since it was clear she only had eyes for Liam. With Flo and Wyatt back in each's orbits, it would make a lot more sense for Thomas to turn his attention to Sally who is the love of his life, not Hope. Sally also lived in New York with Thomas for months and would have spent a good deal of that time with Douglas. 

My concern is that the distancing of Hope from Liam (at least from a physical standpoint) will bring her ever closer to Thomas and her wanting to be a mommy so badly that she will, unknowingly, begin to take on that role to the poor motherless Douglas. Flo will reunite with Wyatt, I'd bet $10 million internet dollars on it. And Liam will, having been turned down and turned out by Hope, waffle back to Steffy. Leaving my gal Sally out in the cold.

And that is a damn shame, for Sally. And also for Liam and Hope who have gone through the worst pain a couple can ever face and are still together and deserve to stay that way.

I did see Liam's speech to Hope yesterday and it broke my heart, but it also made me realize that he has never, ever, EVER loved that heifer the way he loves Hope. 

Liam: "This whole thing, you know, this devastation, this heartache that we've been living through... a lot of couples don't survive it. 'Cause we're just not designed that way. We're not meant to lose our children. But it happens. And it happened to us. What do...what do we do about that? I mean, do we let it destroy us? No, we can't do that. We've lost so much. We can't lose this. We can't lose our marriage, too. I need you. We need each other. And we have to stay strong, and I just... I'll be good if you tell me that you understand that."

He wants HER. He wants THEIR life. Baby or no baby. 

And that should be something to be showcased and celebrated, but instead, TPTB are going to do their best to destroy them on the altar of the next plot twist or to continue dragging out one of the worst storylines in this show's history.

[Petunia13]

I agree. Through this story it’s been shown time and again Liam’s love for Hope is deep and intense, more than just attraction or fun but built on respect, honor, and faith. His connection or love for Steffy never was this strong or character based. It is sad because Hope keeps wanting to give up on it but what is going on is she also wants to give up on herself. Her confidence and joy in living has dimmed. 

This entire story is incredibly dark and it’s made even more so by the committed and talented performances of SC/Liam, AN/Hope, and KB/Flo. 

[Waldo13]

Thomas is definitely Ridge’s son.  They love to weaponize kids and horn in on another man’s relationship.  To me, Thomas, is a Lounge Lizard ready to roofie and take advantage of a young lady. Sort of what he did with Caroline on “misunderstanding night”. Are we going to have a “misunderstanding night 2.0”. 

Et Tu Sally?  Pushing for Liam to go to Paris. We know Thomas is a Judis but for the first time I say to Sally, STFU.

[Zoe116]

Oh, Sally. You are not going to be allowed to stay for conversations anymore if you're going to be stuck in 2009 and pushing that Steffy/Liam crap. Saying that it's OK for Liam to want to go see Kelly? Totally fine. Saying "you once loved Steffy too" to a married man pouring his heart out to you about wanting to connect with his wife? What in the hell does that accomplish?

There I was marveling about the fact that for once in his L.A. existence, the people around him left Liam alone long enough for him to actually have to seek out advice, and then marveling some more that Wyatt was actually just listening before weighing in, and Liam's thoughts and feelings were actually driving the conversation, and she pulls that crap. And, of course, Wyatt hops right on board.

I mean, what kind of insanity is it that Liam is sitting there begging someone to tell him what to do about hope, and the only response is "go see Steffy." Not even, "Go see Kelly so that you can spend some time with your daughter, have a change of scenery from the home you planned to bring Beth back too, take a breath, and give hope a little space." That would be a bad plan, imo, but there's at least logic to it. 

Way to manipulate your kid there, Thomas. Real classy.

[Jane Tuesday]

I was hoping someone would tell Liam, "go see the girls, and take Hope with you." Then maybe we'd get another story for a few days. Ugh. 

[Anna Yolei]

I'm disappointed to see everyone contradicting Liam the one time he actually stuck around when the going got rough. Everyone remember how quickly he was out the door when Steffy lost the first Eggo mini?

[CharlizeCat]

Let me get this straight ... Basically, Liam isn't getting laid at home, so the solution is to send him to Paris to visit Steffy. Steffy, who is lonely and probably "frustrated." You just know that Lippy is going to take the babies and give Steam some "time alone." How fast can you say, "Cha, Cha, Cha?" Disgusting.

As well, WTF with Sally encouraging Liam to go visit Steffy, with the reminder that they once were in love????  Sally knows about Steffy's midnight ride on the Stallion, doesn't she? Maybe that's sneaky payback for the nasty way Hope treated Sally at work. Of course, Sally's loyalties will lie with Hauxdi.

And now, Thomas is piling it on. Hope has enough misery and heartache without dumping a philandering husband to the pile. 

However, my patience is wearing out fast with Hope. If I have to hear her whine about "I'M feeling guilty ... " I'm changing the channel. That is the most nonsensical argument ever. I got it at first, but now enough time has passed for her to throw away that crazy notion, or she truly is going to throw away her husband.  I know that for once, Liam is acting honorably and sincerely, but there is only so much he can take and I'm not talking about lack of sex. Being around that Debbie Downer day-in and day-out would drive me out the door, too. Why don't they consider grief counseling for couples? Can't Hope's real OB refer them? Hell, at this point, I'd even welcome having them sit down with Carter. If he's an ordained minister, surely he could provide some advice and comfort in a pinch. Unless, he's ordained in mail order name only ... 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Poor Douglas, to have that shady dickhead for a daddy.

Liam, instead of lollygagging with Wyatt and Sally--whose advice isn't exactly objective-- maybe you should be at home protecting your emotionally fragile wife from a predator.

You'd think Liam was the first guy to have to juggle an ex, children with that ex, and a current wife. Guess nobody knows the trouble he's seen, huh? Eric, Ridge, and Bill: Hey, Liam. Can we talk to you over here for a second?

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

Et Tu Sally?  Pushing for Liam to go to Paris. We know Thomas is a Judis but for the first time I say to Sally, STFU.

I completely agree...although it's not the 1st time I've said STFU to Sally 🙂

[mightysparrow]

@RuntheTable and @Country girl, I loved your comments and I thank you for your intelligent insight.

I tuned in at the beginning of the week to see the Logan reunion and was very impressed by all the actors involved.  I was surprised by Denise Richards because I thought she was very good.  I thought Flo's mom would be a sleazy, tacky, Las Vegas-strip grifter, but she's is (or was) a woman of respect and grace.  Her 'Florence' was a thing of beauty.  It was great to see a mother give her daughter GOOD advice.  Apparently it only lasted a minute.

It sounds like things are going from bad to worse and I can't bring myself to watch.  Are they going to reunite Liam and Hauxdilox over the corpse of dead child?  Are we supposed to cheer for a relationship that needs a lifeless child and a mentally ill woman to keep it going?

Because a dead child didn't end Hope and Liam.  They reaffirmed their love and recommitted to each other at the worst moment a couple could go through. 

Why can't Bell just acknowledge that Hauxdilox and Liam will NEVER have what Hope and Liam have.  No woman who loves a man would leave her home, fuck his father, return home and RENEW VOWS with the husband she betrayed?  That's not love; that's sickness.  No matter how much they try to cover up Hauxdilox funk with not one but two infants, it won't work; we can still smell her and it's rank.

I cheered for Thomas back in the Thomas/Sally days.  I thought they were an amazing couple and was so sorry when PF left.  Now Thomas is back and it sounds like it's the same guy who fucked his father's wife and got her pregnant.  THIS Thomas is the kind of guy who will take advantage of a woman to get what he wants.  Even if it's his own child.

Sally has gone through so many character changes, the woman who plays her must be dizzy.  Now she's cheering for Liam to get back with Hauxdilox?  Bullshit.  What's she going to do when Wyatt dumps her ass and goes back to Flo?  Because we all know THAT'S going to happen.

Thanks to everyone who's watching.  I can't bring myself to do it.  The theft of Phoebe makes me sick and I can't become a full-time viewer until Hope gets psychiatric care from a doctor who ISN'T a killer and Phoebe is back with her parents.  And I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

[Anna Yolei]

I think this show has killed baby switch it's for me forever. And that's truly amazing and ironic, given that the Amber/Becky story is what pulled me in as a teenager all those years ago and the Jen story pulled me into ATWT. It's been a favorite trope of mine, but usually the switch itself isn't so focused on, but a part of a much bigger story and the mothers involved are allowed some happiness in the meanwhile.

And this isn't even a particular long story. A lot is baby switches weren't revealed for months or even years--there's a Y&R clip I saw of Lauren bringing a toy to Sheila and Scott's for Scotty's first birthday as a way to honor Dylan, the baby she thought was hers. The Gwen/Jen(titled....God, thanks TWOP for ruining that name lol) story from pregnancy to reveal was a very short ten months but that a very packed ten months where it never felt too long or drawn out.

And somehow, despite Jen getting into hard drugs that would eventually lead to complications that would kill her and her own brother aiding and abetting the whole switch, that story never seemed to get as sad and dark as this one. But then, she had Dusty supporting her and encouraging her to get help, which is still one more person that has ever suggested to Hope to seek help. I mean, Katie Logan is her aunt FFS; she of all people should know the effects of PPD and how it fucks up your brain. And Bridget has lost three babies of her own. 

Instead it's just been tragedy porn without any kind of release and that's even without the spoilers about Thomas pushing this story further into the muck.

On 4/19/2019 at 2:52 PM, Petunia13 said:

Through this story it’s been shown time and again Liam’s love for Hope is deep and intense, more than just attraction or fun but built on respect, honor, and faith. His connection or love for Steffy never was this strong or character based. 

It really is. And actually in one of the very first scenes Liam and Hope share, Liam recounts that while he went to a private rich kid school because of his mother's modeling, he had to leave when she got sick and could no longer and mentions that it was an eye awakening moment for him; that it was refreshing to mean someone like Hope who wanted to do something good in the world. (I'll link the episode once I find it again--EDIT: here it is....begins around the 10:44 mark)

I'll be the first person to say they both got lost, but ultimately Liam has way more in common with Hope than he ever did with Steffy. They got tripped up by people telling them to change themselves--think the ending of Grease, but without the kick-ass musical number-- but this story has led to more growth as a couple than Ridge and Brooke have had in three damn decades. After that speech, I might actually feel bad for Liam if and when Thomas inevitably comes between them (you know, for the 90 seconds before he waffles to Steffy because B&B can't have nice things).

Edited April 22, 2019 by Anna Yolei

[Gam2]

Is there a decent, ethical or moral person in this place? Reese? Zoe? Flo? Shauna? Thomas? Can anyone tell anyone else the truth? The first four are keeping a BABY from her grieving parents and grandparents. The fifth is just an immoral piece of crap. Can we have just ONE person to root for on this shit show? Obviously not.

[Anna Yolei]

31 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

Is there a decent, ethical or moral person in this place?

LOL

Bridget was the last person on B&B who had honest-to-goodness integrity and morals and look where that got her.

In all seriousness, I truly hate that there's absolutely no balance at all on this. Soaps used to have decent good girls who were legitimately good (or at a level of decency that one could overlook shortcomings for their other strengths like Brooke and Taylor once upon a very long time ago), there were absolutely horrible villians like Sheila and there were the grey hats like Stephanie who did bad shit but for "good" reasons and occasionally had moments of decency.

Today, there's none of that. There's three categories of characters and that is "Annoying AF", "Less Annoying Than the First Group", and "Never Gets Screentime," the latter of which is pretty much Eric and Quinn and Liam these past few weeks.

[nkotb]

Ugh, Thomas is creepy AF. Gross. When you're the creepiest & grossest in a family where your sister slept with her father-in-law while he was her father-in-law (I mean, $Bill is smoking hot, & I'd for sure ride the stallion, but not if he was my husband's father), your mother shot someone in the back & left him for dead, yet continues to practice psychiatry, & your father almost had sexy times with a woman whom he'd raised for part of her life, & thought she was his sister for the other part of her life, & these are each just 1 example of the grossness running through your veins, you have serious issues. PF had rehabbed the character so much, I'd almost forgotten "misunderstanding night". Now, I remember every detail. I really just wish he'd go away. Douglas can stay, though.

My memory of Thomas & Hope, Round 1, was Thomas pursuing Hope, & Hope pacifying him with a date here & there, & then a trip to the same place Liam & Steffy were vacationing, where hiijinks ensued. I never, ever felt like Hope was into him at all. I will say this for Hope, she had a few feelings for Wyatt, but she's always been pretty steadfast that Liam is her one true love. However, Douglas is the carrot Thomas will dangle. Even grosser, use a grieving child to score.

On the positive side, it's nice to see that Ridge knows his kid is a total creeper. It doesn't appear he's sugar-coating anything. 

[Zoe116]

2 hours ago, nkotb said:

never, ever felt like Hope was into him at all

That's my recollection, too. What is with Taylor's kids falling in instalove? At least Steffy almost got killed by her bathtub--what's thomas' excuse?

OK, Sally? I would've felt bad for you for Thomas basically saying he loved someone else the entire time he was with you (that's bs, but whatever) but Liam told you and Wyatt that bit about the no sex in the strictest of confidence. That's not something you go gabbing about with people. 

She at least redeemed herself with her "How the eff was I attracted to this" look when Thomas was going full on crazy at the end there. 

What was hope's outfit? Specifically, what was Hope's necklace with Hope's outfit?

So is it a rule that this show can only rehab one character at a time? If so, I'm so glad it's Liam's turn. SC is great, and Liam was great today. Caring and considerate, but also taking the time to express his needs in the relationship. Obviously, Hope is the one he most needs to say "I need you" too, but I'd love it if he gets to say it to some of the "you once loved Steffy" crowd. It's so great to see him actually take agency in his relationship, and have some actual self reflection for a change. I will happily keep this version of Liam. 

[Anna Yolei]

52 minutes ago, Zoe116 said:

It's so great to see him actually take agency in his relationship, and have some actual self reflection for a change. I will happily keep this version of Liam. 

Boy, is it ever, indeed. I don't think any man has had this amount of self reflect since Nick was on the show. And if KKL hadn't shut down any further reunions, we wouldn't have had even that.

I'm cautiously optimistic that this new Liam might actually stick around for a while and I'm glad for it. Especially since we're back to creepy ass Thomas being rapey AF. First, his obsession with Brooke, then Caroline and now Hope. I guess we should be glad he's not trying to shit on Ridge some more.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Anna Yolei

[Anna Yolei]

54 minutes ago, Zoe116 said:

So is it a rule that this show can only rehab one character at a time? If so, I'm so glad it's Liam's turn. SC is great, and Liam was great today. Caring and considerate, but also taking the time to express his needs in the relationship. 

Forgot to add that Liam for all his waffly faults also doesn't have nearly as far to go for redemption as some others. I mean Quinn and last!Thomas were straight horrid and gross and a tiny bit of self reflection did wonders to smooth thing over.

Deep down, he's decent enough, but just needs to put effort into fighting for what he wants. He was too young, stupid and horny to do that years ago but he's doing it now, in the face of a tragedy that rips apart far more solid relationships than theirs. Im legit glad that this was the one time he didn't walk away.

Now if only TIIC. would let Steffy move on outside the Spencer gene pool. With Shawna (Shanna?) around, I doubt we're headed for a Still reunion anytime soon and Wyatt is blessedly over her milkshake. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Anna Yolei