Small Talk: The Polygamous Cul-de-Sac

[Kohola3]

26 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Am I foolish to think that the precautions we're taking now will not last forever? 

I think we need to have some optimism, otherwise we will not be able to function.  I do think that once there is a vaccine we will be back to a somewhat normal existence whilst still looking over our shoulder for the next attack of some unknown disease.  Maybe it won't happen again for 100 years like the Spanish flu but for a while I fear I will be be gun shy. 

I find myself dropping further back from cars in front of me like I that makes a difference!  I'm living a nutty sometimes.

And the insanity in the world outside of Covid is deeply disturbing and that won't go away with a vaccine.  Normal was familiar but not necessarily a good thing in a lot of ways.  This pandemic has uncovered and made a focus of a lot of social inequalities.  It's also brought out the very worst tendencies in some of our public figures.

Maybe things will look up once I get a haircut....

 

[Absolom]

Australia has had a 99% reduction in common flu this season due to mask wearing and social distancing.  I think when some people see that they may become more inclined to stay with some of the things we're doing.  I know I will, but I've always hated hand shaking and things like passing the peace at church where touching was involved.  If those things pass out of existence, I won't mind for a moment.  Would I like to feel comfortable going out to eat again?  Yes.  I haven't even been through a drive thru since this began.  

[laurakaye]

53 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

And the insanity in the world outside of Covid is deeply disturbing and that won't go away with a vaccine.  Normal was familiar but not necessarily a good thing in a lot of ways.  This pandemic has uncovered and made a focus of a lot of social inequalities.  It's also brought out the very worst tendencies in some of our public figures.

Maybe things will look up once I get a haircut....

To be clear, I wasn't saying that my getting a haircut was going to make me feel better about what's happening in the world - it's just going to make me feel more like myself, which in turn I hope will help me cope better with....well, with everything happening in the world.  It's not the haircut and the library books themselves, it's me struggling to get back to some sort of routine that makes sense to me, so that hopefully my brain won't feel like it's in a thick fog most of the time.

And I agree 1000% with what we cannot fix with a vaccine.  Hence, my hope that once 2020 is in the rear-view mirror, the majority of humans will have grown from the experiences that have forced us all to think long and hard about what we are doing now and what more we can do in the future.

If I'm not saying any of this right, I apologize.  The last thing I want is to sound like the patronizing and word-salad enthusiast Mariah Brown.

[Kohola3]

4 hours ago, laurakaye said:

To be clear, I wasn't saying that my getting a haircut was going to make me feel better about what's happening in the world - it's just going to make me feel more like myself, which in turn I hope will help me cope better with....well, with everything happening in the world. 

Heavens, no, I totally understand.  We can't control all of the horror going on all around us and we all have so much anxiety.  Somehow getting a haircut (in my case) is just a tiny grasp at something that will make me feel better personally even when the world is out of control.  Sometimes it's these little things that keep us from spinning off into space, a feeling of normalcy in a world if confusion.

4 hours ago, laurakaye said:

If I'm not saying any of this right, I apologize.  The last thing I want is to sound like the patronizing and word-salad enthusiast Mariah Brown.

You are saying it exactly right, at least to me.  Your comments are not senseless woke-babble, they capture what at least this COL is feeling right now.  Some days it's a struggle to keep on keeping on. 

Just hoping against hope for a vaccine so that at least we can put Covid behind us and throw our energy into making the world a better and safer place for everyone.  I don't pretend to know how.  I have joined organizations determined to do it so I will have guidance because unlike Ms Wokety Woke, I don't know it all.  I know very little and am not ashamed to say so.

[Kbo]

I totally understand about the hair--I got my hair cut and highlighted last week, and it really helped my state of mind.  At least I'm not reminded of the pandemic every time I look in the mirror!  It also convinced me I am NOT ready to go grey just yet.  I'll be 50 in a few months, and I think I'll just deal with the upkeep for a few more years.  I'll rock the grey someday, but I'm not there yet.  It doesn't help that I had an "oops" baby at 42--I don't want to look like his grandmother!

On the down side, while my hairdresser is doing extra sanitizing, she's not wearing a mask and has no intention of doing so.  I was there the very first day she started seeing clients again so I wasn't too concerned, but when it's time to go back it gives me pause 😕.  I really like her and I don't want to try to find a new hairdresser right now, but it's really awkward.  What would my fellow COLs do?

[Absolom]

Are masks supposed to be worn according to your county health department?  Then report her and the shop.  If not, then tough decision.  With my health issues, I'd tell her that I'd be happy to provide a mask to her, but I was sorry I couldn't risk my life just to get my hair done.  So no mask, lose a customer.  It's one of those judgment calls in life of which is more important to you.  

[suomi]

I have emphysema and my sister has developmental delay with the intellect and judgement of a first-grader.  We are in our third month of isolating: curbside for every purchase and two doctor visits have been the extent of our outside interaction.

We are very much overdue for haircuts and color - but I can't see us mingling with our two stylists who are mingling with the public.

I think of it like unprotected sex - I'm being intimate with everyone my partner has been intimate with.

I can only guess about other people's standards meeting mine so I can't give up the little bit of control I have.

I think deciding about who to mingle with depends on what you stand to lose and  your comfort level with risk.

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I think we need to have some optimism, otherwise we will not be able to function.  I do think that once there is a vaccine we will be back to a somewhat normal existence whilst still looking over our shoulder for the next attack of some unknown disease.  Maybe it won't happen again for 100 years like the Spanish flu but for a while I fear I will be be gun shy. 

I find myself dropping further back from cars in front of me like I that makes a difference!  I'm living a nutty sometimes.

And the insanity in the world outside of Covid is deeply disturbing and that won't go away with a vaccine.  Normal was familiar but not necessarily a good thing in a lot of ways.  This pandemic has uncovered and made a focus of a lot of social inequalities.  It's also brought out the very worst tendencies in some of our public figures.

Maybe things will look up once I get a haircut....

*Sigh* - I hear you Kohola.  I have always been somewhat of a germophobe so for me it's been kind of refreshing to see other people doing some of the things I have always done - Of course there are those that still resist it that piss me off.  I tend to think that this will not be the new normal indefinitely and that after a while it will go back to being more like it was before, but we don't as yet know how long it will be before that happens.  Even if there is a "phase 2" coming in the Fall, I hope it won't be as bad as the first one.  I somehow don't think it will be.  And I'm usually a big pessimist about these things, so maybe that's a good sign, LOL.

I think the pandemic has a lot of people on edge and that's one reason for the social unrest.  In fact, I was afraid of that happening right from the start.  I knew that all it would take is one trigger episode to make people angry and destructive.  So many people are unemployed with nothing to do and worried about their futures.  Not a good combination to start with, and then you add social injustices to that and it's like a powder keg waiting to explode.

I agree with you about the pandemic bringing out the worst in some public figures.  It's very demoralizing, as if the entire situation wasn't demoralizing enough all by itself.  I have had to stop watching the news and just read it now.  I don't want to get my blood pressure up and cause any more stomach acid to form.

I know what you mean about the haircut - I find a haircut so cleansing, it's almost like the feeling I get after reorganizing my closet or cleaning my garage.  It's that sense of normalcy I want back.  At the beginning of the lockdown and especially after my father died, I would suddenly realize that I hadn't been outside in 3 days nor had I showered - something completely unheard of for me as I always shower every day without fail.  Sometimes I'd realize that I hadn't washed my hair in 4 days or more - how unlike me, and how utterly depressing.  I have had to make it a priority to keep up that sense of normalcy by adhering to my former routine somewhat.  I now shower no less than every other day and if I go out I always shower.  And I don't let my hair go more than 3 days without washing it.  Fortunately in my "old age" my hair isn't as oily as it used to be so I can get away with 3 days.  But any more than that and my scalp starts to itch.  

Was it you that posted that funny photo of the woman dressing in an evening gown that read, "Me getting dressed to get the mail".  I STILL think about that and crack up because that's me now.  I get dressed and do my hair like I'm going out and my husband asks me, "Are you going out?" and I say, "Yeah, just to get the mail".  I think it helps my frame of mind to do that.  Even if I'm not ready to get a haircut I can do those other things to help how I feel.  I did my roots the other day with Clairol Root Touch Up and it felt sooooo good.  

I have been considering asking my hairstylist if she would be willing to come over to my house to cut my hair outside.  I would come out with wet hair, she would cut it (both of us masked), then I would go inside and blow dry it myself.  My haircut is not complicated so it would only take a few minutes.  I think what scares me the most is being inside the salon with other people getting their hair styled and being close to my stylist inside the salon.  If we did it outside where no one else is around it might feel safer.  It would be easy for her to do because her salon is only about 3 miles from my house.  I just don't know how she would feel about that.  She doesn't live in this area so it wouldn't be possible for me to go to her house.  It's something I'm still thinking about, anyway.  I know her for close to 20 years now so maybe she'll do it.  We've both been through a lot together and she has always been very supportive.

 

[Teafortwo]

15 hours ago, Kyanight said:

I know everyone is fine (Covid19 fine) because I never forget you in my prayers, and I am believing in the power of it.

I'm sick and tired of this mess.  I really want normal to return.  And I get angry at myself if I ever go out because of how mad I get at those people who refuse to wear masks.

Hugs (((Kyanight))) and thank you. I'm so tired of it too and I get so mad too. You are in my thoughts.

[Yeah No]

15 hours ago, Kyanight said:

How is everyone doing?  You all hanging in there?  I know everyone is fine (Covid19 fine) because I never forget you in my prayers, and I am believing in the power of it.

I'm sick and tired of this mess.  I really want normal to return.  And I get angry at myself if I ever go out because of how mad I get at those people who refuse to wear masks.  I KNOW that some of them might have a legit reason - but when you see entire families.. or more commonly couples where neither of them wear a mask - you know that they either don't really believe in Covid, don't believe THEY will ever get Covid, or don't give a damn if they pass it around to everyone they walk by.  And the masks are SOOO uncomfortable in the heat!

 

Ok.  I'm done whining.  For now.

I hear you, Kyan, I'm right there with you on all of this.  You'll regret asking this question because as usual I have a long winded answer, LOL. 😉  I'll try to keep it as brief as I can.

I had the scare of my life this week.  Mr. Moneybags client called hubbie and told him he wanted to go for a fishing trip in Maine later this month.  He would have hubbie drive him there and then put him up in a hotel in Portland.  I was also invited.  He did this once last summer and we all had a great time.  He went off with his fishing buddies and hubbie and I had our own weekend in Portland, all paid for by Mr. Moneybags (I told you he was a really nice person).  Plus he's fun to talk to!

So anyway, you can imagine how this news went through me like a stake right through my heart.  I'm not even ready to eat outdoors here at home much less travel and have to go into rest rooms and indoor locations like hotel elevators.....Ugh.  And knowing how hubbie hates to say no to Mr. Moneybags, I was deathly afraid of feeling guilted into going, plus even if I didn't go I'd worry about hubbie going by himself anyway....

Well, Mr. Moneybags DID say the trip was dependent on what kind of restrictions Maine had in place right now, which he would have to research first.  So I wasted no time going on the Maine.gov site and breathed a huge sigh of relief upon finding out that the governor there is not lifting the mandatory 2 week quarantine for any visitors to the state until August at the earliest and maybe not even THEN.  Today Mr. Moneybags called back to tell us that unfortunately the trip was a no-go and how sorry he was, etc.  Little does he know I feel like I dodged a bullet.

Mind you, Maine is a state with very few cases, but it's a huge tourist magnet in the summer and I'm sure the governor is reacting to that, and I don't blame her.  Knowing how Mainers are about outsiders in general, I know that there have been no protests about that even from the restaurants in Portland that do most of their business in the summer from tourists that go there from all over the country and beyond.

To be honest, I am a little surprised and shocked that Mr. Moneybags was considering going there right now.  I would have thought that he would be a little more cautious given that he's already had the virus and had a rough go of it with 2 hospital stays, plus he has an advanced degree in biophysics which would make him especially aware of the risks involved.  He is in his mid 50s with asthma and bad seasonal allergies so he is not the best candidate to begin with.  Plus we don't know if it's possible to get it a second time yet, not to mention that he would be asking hubbie and I to go to a tourist area that is often crowded with people from all over the place, which might put us in a difficult position with some risks.

So anyway, you asked how we were doing, LOL.  😉 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Yeah No

[Kyanight]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

So anyway, you asked how we were doing, LOL.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE hearing your updates!  I'm always disappointed when I come here and there's nothing to read from you!

Mr. Moneybags probably IS a nice man, but he's like a lot of people in that they mostly just think of themselves.  I am willing to bet he is thinking he is immune since he's already fought the battle and won... but why wouldn't he be a little concerned about his driver and the driver's wife?  I guess it's just human nature.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Kyanight said:

I LOVE LOVE LOVE hearing your updates!  I'm always disappointed when I come here and there's nothing to read from you!

Mr. Moneybags probably IS a nice man, but he's like a lot of people in that they mostly just think of themselves.  I am willing to bet he is thinking he is immune since he's already fought the battle and won... but why wouldn't he be a little concerned about his driver and the driver's wife?  I guess it's just human nature.

Awww, thanks for that, I miss not seeing updates from you too!

I think perhaps he didn't give it enough thought.  When we went there with him last year we dropped him off near our hotel in the city and he was picked up by a couple of friends who live up there who took him straight to the country, so perhaps he wasn't thinking about how we'd have to deal with a lot of riskier stuff than he would.  He basically just stayed at one of their houses and spent the entire weekend in the great rural outdoors.  Meanwhile we were walking in constant crowded urban spaces both outside and inside, and the restaurants were packed.  I guess that's not going to be the case this year with the mandatory quarantine.  I'm sure the hotels will be asking visitors a lot of questions to justify their existence there as well.

[AZChristian]

17 hours ago, Kbo said:

On the down side, while my hairdresser is doing extra sanitizing, she's not wearing a mask and has no intention of doing so.  I was there the very first day she started seeing clients again so I wasn't too concerned, but when it's time to go back it gives me pause 😕.  I really like her and I don't want to try to find a new hairdresser right now, but it's really awkward.  What would my fellow COLs do?

I'd express my concern and desire that she wear a mask.  If she wouldn't do it, I wouldn't go.  Probably wouldn't go back AFTER covid goes away either.  Depending on state laws, she may have the right to choose whether to wear a mask.  I have the right to choose who's breathing on me.

[suomi]

A happy pandemic story.

A furloughed child-care worker turns an act of kindness at a tire shop into many more 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/04/furloughed-child-care-worker-turns-an-act-kindness-tire-shop-into-many-more/#comments-wrapper

[Kohola3]

13 minutes ago, suomi said:

A happy pandemic story.

And we sure need those!

20 hours ago, Kbo said:

I really like her and I don't want to try to find a new hairdresser right now, but it's really awkward.  What would my fellow COLs do?

I would take it as a sign of disrespect for you.  This virus is not an "all about me" thing, it's an "all about everyone" thing.  Refusing to ensure the safety of friends, family, or customers tells me that they have no interest in your well being. 

I would ask her to wear a mask and if she refuses I'd know that I am not worth the smallest effort on her part to keep you safe.  I don't pay people who clearly don't care about me.

[lookeyloo]

Around here, depending on the political demographics, very obvious where masks will be worn.  I made a point of venturing into a chain store in a location I was pretty sure all would be wearing masks.  And they were.  If I had gone to another one, I'm pretty sure no one would be wearing masks.  I really don't want anyone's "aerosols" around me.  And why would anyone trust me to be totally negative?  What if I am an asymptomatic carrier whose symptoms might kick up at any moment?  Very perplexing.

Son is still very sick and worries about us doing anything risky because he would "ban" us from his house for 2 weeks.  But, we clear everything with him and are far from taking risks.  I pick my grocery store and then am prepared to walk out or not enter if I can see things are not as they should be.  He has masks/face shields/sanitizer, etc.  We have all mostly given up on gloves since we wash our hands so much and really don't touch our faces.  Wash the face masks too.  

We had an a/c repair today and the fellow had a mask on and the usual booties.  He kept his distance and so did we.  Mr lookeyloo even wore a mask in the house.  

I wonder if the rate of the common cold will be reduced during all this.  I also wonder if anyone keeps statistics on that.

 

[Absolom]

The rate of seasonal flu in Australia is down 99% I think the article said.  So yes, people are tracking the results.

[ciaoformeow]

On 5/30/2020 at 10:02 AM, TurtlePower said:

Sometimes I get a bit ruffled with the whole black/white thing like everyone belongs in one category or the other. Where do all the Native, Hispanic, Arab and Asian descents fit into all this?  Are they afforded “white” privilege because they are not black? I know many Arabs who are like, don’t lump me in with white folks  

Not everything is so black and white (literally, pun intended). 

You're referring to POC, or more specifically BIPOC. 

 

On 5/30/2020 at 2:07 PM, suomi said:

 

I saw signs with the letters ACAB, which stands for All Cops Are Bad.

It actually stands for All Cops are Bastards

[Irate Panda]

On 5/30/2020 at 4:46 PM, Yeah No said:

Thank you, perhaps you're right.  I just hope you can understand that white people, especially those that don't deserve it, get tired of being lumped together with a group of privileged people that they feel snub and ostracize them almost as badly as they snub and ostracize black people, whose privileges based on race (or any other factor) they don't get to benefit from nearly to the same degree.

I get sick all the time watching privileged white people on TV who would turn their nose up at helping me just because I'm not "one of them" (i.e., another rich, white privileged person).  And yet these are the people who because it makes them look good will fall all over themselves to appear "woke" and do all kinds of public good works to convince everyone of their lack of prejudice toward minorities, including doing good works for people of color, meanwhile they would totally ignore someone like me even if I were on my last dime and begging for help. 

 

This might be late, but I just wanted to be clear that when I spoke of “white privilege”, I’m not saying that someone that is white cannot have a hard life or struggle.  I was defining it, generally-speaking, the struggle or hardship did not come from race.  Perhaps from gender or socioeconomic class, yes.  Again, saying that there is systemic racism does not discount that there is gender or class prejudice, as well. It’s just a different discussion on my part.  I just wanted to make that distinction as I’m not sure I was clear in my other post.  
 

Unrelated, we are slowly starting to get back to some normalcy here with some businesses reopening.  I still limit my going out to essential trips.  I try to support local businesses by ordering things or getting take out, but most other things I’m waiting on until later.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

This might be late, but I just wanted to be clear that when I spoke of “white privilege”, I’m not saying that someone that is white cannot have a hard life or struggle.  I was defining it, generally-speaking, the struggle or hardship did not come from race.  Perhaps from gender or socioeconomic class, yes.  Again, saying that there is systemic racism does not discount that there is gender or class prejudice, as well. It’s just a different discussion on my part.  I just wanted to make that distinction as I’m not sure I was clear in my other post.  

I think it's very hard for people that didn't grow up in a very racially and ethnically diverse environment like I did to understand or relate to what I'm talking about.  If you don't know what it's like being the racial minority as a white person you won't understand this, and I'm sorry to say but your post above is evidence of that.  It wasn't just about socio-economic class, but yeah, perhaps if I grew up with more money I would have had "white privilege" because I wouldn't have been close enough to black people to be at the receiving end of their prejudice and other more systemic disadvantages stemming from being white in such an environment.  I might have grown up in a more privileged neighborhood if my parents had more money.  So yeah, if that were the case I might have had some of that privilege, but I didn't, so it left me open to not having the advantage of it.

My husband and several other close friends all had similar experiences as I did and feel the same about this.  You have no idea what it's like to grow up white and hated and persecuted your entire young life just because of your race by people who the entire world sees as the victims and the persecuted - and they ARE, and I don't deny that, but that doesn't mean that those people can't also turn around and focus their own racial prejudice on the unfortunate white people that cross their paths.  I know white friends who were routinely denied jobs and entry into schools because of racial quotas favoring minorities plus even my husband and I experienced racism 40 years ago down at the dept. of social services when we were dirt poor and applying for food stamps and other aid.  We had zero income for a while and had to endure the sneers and lack of help from minority employees of that agency who were dead set against giving us any government aid.  We were forced to give that up and almost ended up on the street.  When my husband and I both took the police exam we got 100% on it but somehow were way down on the list to be called.  Police friends told us it was because of racial quotas.  When it never happened we ended up giving up on that.

Two of my closest white female friends lost their long time jobs because of racial prejudice against them.  Over the years their offices gradually became all minority and they became the odd person out.  They were both THE nicest and non-prejudiced people you'd ever want to meet but somehow in recent years became the targets of hatred and false accusations just because of their race, to the point that my best childhood girlfriend was forced to retire at 62 and the other one quit after several years of abuse when she just couldn't take it anymore.  The fact that two of my oldest and dearest friends experienced very similar situations does not feel like a coincidence.

This is a very honest and frank post.  A lot of people wouldn't admit this because it's not PC to do so, but it was my reality.  The two friends I wrote about above were less willing to admit it than I was until the problem got so bad that they had to get away from it.  I hate to say this, but a big part of the reason I left NY almost 30 years ago is because I got tired of being hated and feeling yes, as a result, disadvantaged because of my race.  I lived in the Bronx where I was in the minority.  I grew up relatively poor by anyone's standards plus my parents did not have any advantages having grown up dirt poor during the great Depression.  I was brought up to accept people of all races and walked the walk - I didn't have to be pushed into it, it was my life.  People talk today about how young people are now so "color blind" - well I was color blind over 50 years ago.  And so it hurt all the more feeling like I was experiencing such prejudice and hatred when all I wanted was for everyone to love each other!

So it's a hard sell for people who've had my experiences to be told that we never experienced disadvantages because of our race.  Just imagine what it would be like to be cursed at and ridiculed by scores of people you don't even know on a regular basis for most of your young life and see how it affects YOU.  It's a real thing but most white people have never experienced this, and so for them perhaps all the stuff about "white privilege" applies.  But for the most part whatever "privilege" I supposedly had was cancelled out because I never got to benefit from it.  I wasn't insulated enough like more advantaged white people to benefit from it.  Being smart and doing well in school didn't even help me because my parents didn't know anyone and so I never had that advantage that more advantaged white people had whose families got them jobs and careers.  After being bullied and hated so much I didn't have the self esteem to impress anyone, so that would have been a great help.  But I didn't have that privilege either. 

Here's more - In Jr. High school I couldn't take the bus to school so I had to walk a long distance because it was too dangerous for white kids to ride the bus.  We were routinely roughed up, spit on, mugged and even had knives drawn on us regularly.  This is no exaggeration.  My Jr. High was so rough that I had to cling to a very tall and large friend for protection in the hallways.  White kids were routinely bullied and picked on if they were found walking the halls alone.  I prayed to be delivered from this situation and studied as hard as I could to get into the prestigious Bronx High School of Science, which was nearby.  Despite being dirt poor and only high school educated my parents were both very smart and well read, and they passed on their love of knowledge to me.  So I was able to go to a school that while still racially and ethnically integrated was not rough and I didn't have to have a "bodyguard" to walk the hallways.  Too bad I wasn't a scientific type, though.  If I had it in me to be a scientist I might have gotten somewhere with that.  So I didn't even get to take advantage of any advantage I might have had.

I didn't even touch on the prejudice and lack of acceptance I felt because I grew up around a lot of Jews and I wasn't Jewish enough for them.  My father was half Jewish so my maiden name was a Jewish one but that didn't help me - I was routinely ostracized, teased and kept out of certain "perks" because I wasn't Jewish.  So I have a pattern of feeling the prejudice of ethnic minorities who were themselves the victims of prejudice.  I never had anything against Jews myself - I WISHED I could be one when I was a kid just to be accepted by the Jewish kids in my neighborhood.  My father was raised a Christian by his Christian mother (his father was non-religious).  My best girlfriends growing up were Jewish.  Both of them are the women I discussed in my earlier paragraph.  This was prejudice among whites so it isn't relevant to the other stuff I mentioned, but it still created disadvantages.  My father was never accepted by his Jewish family because they never forgave his father for marrying a "shickse" (a non Jewish woman).  So they never gave him the support to help him go to college or get a job after his parents divorced like they did with his cousins.  He had to quit school to support his mother before he was drafted into WWII.  Meanwhile the rest of his Jewish side of the family went to college and became wealthy.  He really needed that support but they never gave it to him because of yes, PREJUDICE.

I am just so tired of everyone who doesn't understand this situation telling me that it's just a disadvantaged youth but not because of my race.  I have many more stories to illustrate my point that I DID experience disadvantages because of my race and even my religion and ethnicity, but I have gone on long enough and will end it here.

[Irate Panda]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think it's very hard for people that didn't grow up in a very racially and ethnically diverse environment like I did to understand or relate to what I'm talking about.  If you don't know what it's like being the racial minority as a white person you won't understand this, and I'm sorry to say but your post above is evidence of that.  It wasn't just about socio-economic class, but yeah, perhaps if I grew up with more money I would have had "white privilege" because I wouldn't have been close enough to black people to be at the receiving end of their prejudice and other more systemic disadvantages stemming from being white in such an environment.  I might have grown up in a more privileged neighborhood if my parents had more money.  So yeah, if that were the case I might have had some of that privilege, but I didn't, so it left me open to not having the advantage of it.

My husband and several other close friends all had similar experiences as I did and feel the same about this.  You have no idea what it's like to grow up white and hated and persecuted your entire young life just because of your race by people who the entire world sees as the victims and the persecuted - and they ARE, and I don't deny that, but that doesn't mean that those people can't also turn around and focus their own racial prejudice on the unfortunate white people that cross their paths.  I know white friends who were routinely denied jobs and entry into schools because of racial quotas favoring minorities plus even my husband and I experienced racism 40 years ago down at the dept. of social services when we were dirt poor and applying for food stamps and other aid.  We had zero income for a while and had to endure the sneers and lack of help from minority employees of that agency who were dead set against giving us any government aid.  We were forced to give that up and almost ended up on the street.  When my husband and I both took the police exam we got 100% on it but somehow were way down on the list to be called.  Police friends told us it was because of racial quotas.  When it never happened we ended up giving up on that.

Two of my closest white female friends lost their long time jobs because of racial prejudice against them.  Over the years their offices gradually became all minority and they became the odd person out.  They were both THE nicest and non-prejudiced people you'd ever want to meet but somehow in recent years became the targets of hatred and false accusations just because of their race, to the point that my best childhood girlfriend was forced to retire at 62 and the other one quit after several years of abuse when she just couldn't take it anymore.  The fact that two of my oldest and dearest friends experienced very similar situations does not feel like a coincidence.

This is a very honest and frank post.  A lot of people wouldn't admit this because it's not PC to do so, but it was my reality.  The two friends I wrote about above were less willing to admit it than I was until the problem got so bad that they had to get away from it.  I hate to say this, but a big part of the reason I left NY almost 30 years ago is because I got tired of being hated and feeling yes, as a result, disadvantaged because of my race.  I lived in the Bronx where I was in the minority.  I grew up relatively poor by anyone's standards plus my parents did not have any advantages having grown up dirt poor during the great Depression.  I was brought up to accept people of all races and walked the walk - I didn't have to be pushed into it, it was my life.  People talk today about how young people are now so "color blind" - well I was color blind over 50 years ago.  And so it hurt all the more feeling like I was experiencing such prejudice and hatred when all I wanted was for everyone to love each other!

So it's a hard sell for people who've had my experiences to be told that we never experienced disadvantages because of our race.  Just imagine what it would be like to be cursed at and ridiculed by scores of people you don't even know on a regular basis for most of your young life and see how it affects YOU.  It's a real thing but most white people have never experienced this, and so for them perhaps all the stuff about "white privilege" applies.  But for the most part whatever "privilege" I supposedly had was cancelled out because I never got to benefit from it.  I wasn't insulated enough like more advantaged white people to benefit from it.  Being smart and doing well in school didn't even help me because my parents didn't know anyone and so I never had that advantage that more advantaged white people had whose families got them jobs and careers.  After being bullied and hated so much I didn't have the self esteem to impress anyone, so that would have been a great help.  But I didn't have that privilege either. 

Here's more - In Jr. High school I couldn't take the bus to school so I had to walk a long distance because it was too dangerous for white kids to ride the bus.  We were routinely roughed up, spit on, mugged and even had knives drawn on us regularly.  This is no exaggeration.  My Jr. High was so rough that I had to cling to a very tall and large friend for protection in the hallways.  White kids were routinely bullied and picked on if they were found walking the halls alone.  I prayed to be delivered from this situation and studied as hard as I could to get into the prestigious Bronx High School of Science, which was nearby.  Despite being dirt poor and only high school educated my parents were both very smart and well read, and they passed on their love of knowledge to me.  So I was able to go to a school that while still racially and ethnically integrated was not rough and I didn't have to have a "bodyguard" to walk the hallways.  Too bad I wasn't a scientific type, though.  If I had it in me to be a scientist I might have gotten somewhere with that.  So I didn't even get to take advantage of any advantage I might have had.

I didn't even touch on the prejudice and lack of acceptance I felt because I grew up around a lot of Jews and I wasn't Jewish enough for them.  My father was half Jewish so my maiden name was a Jewish one but that didn't help me - I was routinely ostracized, teased and kept out of certain "perks" because I wasn't Jewish.  So I have a pattern of feeling the prejudice of ethnic minorities who were themselves the victims of prejudice.  I never had anything against Jews myself - I WISHED I could be one when I was a kid just to be accepted by the Jewish kids in my neighborhood.  My father was raised a Christian by his Christian mother (his father was non-religious).  My best girlfriends growing up were Jewish.  Both of them are the women I discussed in my earlier paragraph.  This was prejudice among whites so it isn't relevant to the other stuff I mentioned, but it still created disadvantages.  My father was never accepted by his Jewish family because they never forgave his father for marrying a "shickse" (a non Jewish woman).  So they never gave him the support to help him go to college or get a job after his parents divorced like they did with his cousins.  He had to quit school to support his mother before he was drafted into WWII.  Meanwhile the rest of his Jewish side of the family went to college and became wealthy.  He really needed that support but they never gave it to him because of yes, PREJUDICE.

I am just so tired of everyone who doesn't understand this situation telling me that it's just a disadvantaged youth but not because of my race.  I have many more stories to illustrate my point that I DID experience disadvantages because of my race and even my religion and ethnicity, but I have gone on long enough and will end it here.

Ok, I think we just see things differently.  I don’t want to talk in circles. We have not lived each other’s lives, so maybe can’t completely understand the other’s, but I at least think it was good to share the experiences.  I hope you know I’m not trying to discount you or your experiences, I guess we just have different opinions of the world, even though you know your experiences and I know mine, and they are different, I am sorry for all the bad you’ve endured in your life. I don’t know your exact situation now, but l do hope things have gotten better for you.  I leave things there as I don’t want to harp.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Irate Panda

[Meowwww]

@Irate Panda and @Yeah No thank you for discussing this like adults.  So refreshing to see with all the strife in our world lately.  ((((Hugs)))) to you both.  

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Irate Panda said:

Ok, I think we just see things differently.  I don’t want to talk in circles. We have not lived each other’s lives, so maybe can’t completely understand the other’s, but I at least think it was good to share the experiences.  I hope you know I’m not trying to discount you or your experiences, I guess we just have different opinions of the world, even though you know your experiences and I know mine, and they are different, I am sorry for all the bad you’ve endured in your life. I don’t know your exact situation now, but l do hope things have gotten better for you.  I leave things there as I don’t want to harp.

Thanks, Panda.  My husband and I are what we call "survivors".  We have fought for every penny we've ever earned and have had our ups and downs financially.  We "escaped" NY at a bad time (the homeless and crack problem was at its peak) to CT almost 30 years ago and it wasn't until we got here that we learned intuitively what "white privilege" was (the phrase didn't exist yet) because originally we moved to an area that was mostly white, something the two of us were not used to.  Even among whites we felt disadvantaged.  So I know what white privilege is.  I have friends that are native to CT that grew up with white privilege and that even to this day don't personally know anyone of color save perhaps work acquaintances.  That's not uncommon in this area.  There are many white hypocrites here.  I have no problem shopping in the minority neighborhoods.  We even have a nice middle class town around here that's about 50% black on one side of town and I regularly go shopping there while my so-called liberal white friends would NEVER do that.  So my perspective is much different.

Where was it that I read something interesting asking white people if they've ever invited a black or other race's family into their own home for dinner and if not they really need to examine themselves as far as making a difference toward solving racial inequality, division and tension?  That really struck me because I can say that I have had black friends and acquaintances over to my house many times in my life - something I never even thought about until I heard this message.  I know that a lot of my white CT friends have never had a black person in their house much less lived in a neighborhood with any black people.  My husband and I went to a racially integrated church in CT for many years and sang in the choir with several black people who were our friends - the choir was a tight knit group and we were always inviting everyone over to our houses.

We chose to live in a racially integrated neighborhood when we moved to this area of CT, and before we bought our house we lived in an apartment building where we were the minority.  Our closest and dearest neighbors on one side were black.  On the other side also dear to us was a Puerto Rican family.  Even where I live now our neighbor across the street is a black man.  Both of my parents had black best friends - one lived in our apartment building and the other was a woman they knew from their senior center in the Bronx.  She was the woman that helped my father until his death.  There is a place for her in heaven and when I hit the lottery she will be the FIRST person I'd give some money to.  

Anyway I've gone on far too long.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Yeah No

[TurtlePower]

32 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Thanks, Panda.  My husband and I are what we call "survivors".  We have fought for every penny we've ever earned and have had our ups and downs financially.  We "escaped" NY at a bad time (the homeless and crack problem was at its peak) to CT almost 30 years ago and it wasn't until we got here that we learned intuitively what "white privilege" was (the phrase didn't exist yet) because originally we moved to an area that was mostly white, something the two of us were not used to.  Even among whites we felt disadvantaged.  So I know what white privilege is.  I have friends that are native to CT that grew up with white privilege and that even to this day don't personally know anyone of color save perhaps work acquaintances.  That's not uncommon in this area.  There are many white hypocrites here.  I have no problem shopping in the minority neighborhoods.  We even have a nice middle class town around here that's about 50% black on one side of town and I regularly go shopping there while my so-called liberal white friends would NEVER do that.  So my perspective is much different.

Where was it that I read something interesting asking white people if they've ever invited a black or other race's family into their own home for dinner and if not they really need to examine themselves as far as making a difference toward solving racial inequality, division and tension?  That really struck me because I can say that I have had black friends and acquaintances over to my house many times in my life - something I never even thought about until I heard this message.  I know that a lot of my white CT friends have never had a black person in their house much less lived in a neighborhood with any black people.  My husband and I went to a racially integrated church in CT for many years and sang in the choir with several black people who were our friends - the choir was a tight knit group and we were always inviting everyone over to our houses.

We chose to live in a racially integrated neighborhood when we moved to this area of CT, and before we bought our house we lived in an apartment building where we were the minority.  Our closest and dearest neighbors on one side were black.  On the other side also dear to us was a Puerto Rican family.  Even where I live now our neighbor across the street is a black man.  Both of my parents had black best friends - one lived in our apartment building and the other was a woman they knew from their senior center in the Bronx.  She was the woman that helped my father until his death.  There is a place for her in heaven and when I hit the lottery she will be the FIRST person I'd give some money to.  

Anyway I've gone on far too long.

Maybe this isn’t popular opinion, but I’m getting tired of hearing people on SM and in meetings and everywhere saying “white privilege”. It feels disingenuous, like people are being guilted into doing it because everyone’s doing it and that waters down any meaning it truly has. 

People can’t always look at someone and know if they’re “white” or not, just because they aren’t black. And many people are very dark but not African American (I know some Columbians like this).  
 

People can’t help what ethnicity they are. It’s one thing to fight racism, it’s quite another to have to apologize for being “white”.  I feel both sorry for and confused by this behavior of white people. It has a weird, “set up” feeling to it—like Meri’s post. It feels fake and coerced by society. 

[Kohola3]

"There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong"

For What It's Worth by Buffalo Sprinfield.  A song for these times.

[Rabbit Hutch]

My Covid update from the road.  😎

Yes, I'm back in the saddle, again, currently riding on the ranges of Wyoming, headed for Montana. 🐎  Armed with masks, Lysol, gloves, sanitizer and soap, I've loaded up for Covid, but I now have to worry more about where the loads are being delivered. 

This worry has always been with us in one form or another since we became truckers but currently it's much more pronounced. We are carefully watching what day and the time of day we're delivering, and if the delivery area is in turmoil we have to decide if whether we will even accept the load.  No load is worth our lives, and forget about the insurance concerns. Moreover, I'm a firm believer in, "an ounce of prevention." 👁

Interstate traffic varies strongly by state.  Some states, like Georgia, are open and so the traffic is back to being atrocious. Other states and their turnpikes, such as the Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Indiana turnpikes, while they are open their plazas are limited operationally, and therefore are like ghost towns in some areas. 

Fortunately we have on the truck 2 refrigerators, one of which we've use as a freezer for the time being, a microwave, and a Keurig. I made plenty of meals and froze them while I was home so we're good for a minute.

Even with the above concerns I'm so glad to be back OTR. I'm a gypsy at heart and I love our lifestyle.  💕  We worked so HARD to get here, and made many sacrifices along the way to reach our preferred method of living, that it's sad to be thinking it could be over so soon after we finally reached our pinnacle.  📈

However, with the current events being what they are I don't know how much longer we'll be able to do it.  Me and DH began discussing early retirement as an option if these events continue to escalate, as we are older and decrepit and just aren't up to this fight. 🙃  We fought off Covid but I don't think we can fight both Covid and the rioting at the same time.  But, that is still Plan "B".  We'll have to see what happens after the election in November.

BTW, I want to thank this forum for helping me to pass the time and keeping me entertained over the last several months.  I think I would've went a little cray-cray without having y'all make me laugh and see the ridiculousness of life, especially as it pertains to the Brown clowns! As a matter of fact, that selfie that Sofasloth created of Pudge and Sludge with the shark, along with Laurakaye's thoughts about it, still makes me grin. Y'all been great, stay well and safe out there.

💖💖🙃💖💖😷💖💖💃💖💖

[Kohola3]

2 minutes ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

Y'all been great, stay well and safe out there.

Safe travels to you. Check in and let us know what you are doing - you will be our eyes and ears out in the big world as some of us still hunker down.

[Rabbit Hutch]

6 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Safe travels to you. Check in and let us know what you are doing - you will be our eyes and ears out in the big world as some of us still hunker down.

Thank you, Kohola.  Will do.  😊

[Kyanight]

Soooo.... some interesting reading this morning on the board!  I certainly appreciate it, too!

Last night I started to write a post and my oldest son literally went off on me when I told him what we were discussing, so I backspaced over everything I wrote and didn't post it.

This morning I will say SOME of what I had written. 

I have been told time and time again on social media by various people that people of color cannot be racists - only whites are racist.  What the heck? That is definitely not true.  I have been on the receiving end (in real life) - never on social media.   I know what Yeah No is talking about, and I think in order to understand it depends on where you have lived.  And in reverse - I believe that if you are black you experience MUCH more racism in the south than you do in other areas of the country.    

I have been told that it is impossible for a person to not be racist.  You may argue this with me because I don't take offense at differing opinions - but I say "Bull".   I don't give a flying crap how much pigment you have in your skin - that's totally immaterial.  What *I care about is how you treat me and others.  If you are kind to me - I am very kind in return.  If you are mean to me, I don't especially like you - but it has nothing to do with what "color" you are.  And if we want to strip this down to race - I dislike entitled white people way more than I do people of any other color.  Because guess what... people who feel they are entitled AREN'T especially kind to other people because they are only concerned with themselves and what THEY want.  And entitled people are all about appearances, so if you don't dress a certain way or have your hair styled nicely, perfect nails - whatever - you are found "lacking" and don't deserve any notice or consideration.   So petty.  Entitled white people don't like WHITE people if they aren't in a certain economic class, or don't fit in another mold that governs their lives.  

I am going to stereotype now (which is what made my son so angry) and say that as some people are tired of hearing "white privilege" slapped onto every white human being, I am tired of having so many people of color (I am not saying ALL people of color) but yes... SO many people of color - lumping all white people together as being descendants of slave owners.  What the heck, people!  There were tons of white people in the north fighting and dying to end slavery in the Civil War.  There were MANY MANY more white people that NEVER owned slaves than those that did.  There are MANY MANY white Americans that immigrated to the United States after slavery was abolished... and not only did THEY not own slaves - their ancestors did not, as well.   I can go back through my family tree on both sides and not a one was a slave owner.  Am I sorry that slavery ever existed?  HELL YES I am!!  But it makes no sense to hold me (or others) accountable for something that happened hundreds of years before we were a sperm and egg that came together, and certainly had no control over!  What we need to do is go on from here!   And do you know what?  When I was called a "Cracker" I thought it meant "Saltine" - as in a white cracker you eat.  It didn't offend me a bit and I told my kids that, too.  My kids had to explain that it meant a "whip cracker" as in slave owner.  THEN my feelings were hurt, lol.

I seriously wish racism didn't exist.   And I want to say right here and now -  I LOATHE white supremacists - and I'm ashamed of them.  It's so weird treating people differently because of something inherent.  I don't get it.

[Roslyn]

Pennsylvania is reopening county by county based on new COVID numbers.  My county officially went to DEFCON Green last Friday.  The biggest changes is that some restaurants are allowed to have outdoor seating and some even have indoor but the tables are fewer with the 6 feet between them.  You have to wear a mask into the restaurant but can remove it only when seated, putting it back on when up and about.

The two grocery stores I have been to no longer have the one way directions with the aisles, but pretty much everyone I have seen is wearing masks. I am still with my wiping down my hands and such after getting in the car as I have been from the beginning.

My husband went back to work several weeks ago and was working right in the vicinity of the Philadelphia protests. His job was shut down during the worst of it and he had to delay for two days.  I made him text me every time he left the job site/hotel to travel anywhere.  My nerves were quite frazzled at the end of that week.  

I wish he could have been off work longer.  At first I was just so scared that his job might up and disappear all together, but once we settled into a routine it was nice to get so many things done around the house.  I have had a more positive experience with the quarantine.  I already live like a hermit and I don't venture out very much, so my life really only changed with my husband home every day and night. And bread...holy cow I have gone through a lot yeast in just the 8 weeks he was home.  At the beginning I didn't buy any yeast but made sure that I had a good amount of flour on hand, and I have used almost all of the yeast that I had at the beginning of February....I estimate it was an amount I would have used in around 10 months of normal baking. I'm just now starting to see flour more often (but not fully stocked shelves) in the market and for the first time this week I saw yeast.  Locally we haven't had any problems with availability of produce or meat (tho less meat selections and limits on purchasing and higher prices). 

I think its telling that cold/flu numbers are down.  It will be very interesting to see if people can continue to care about all viruses. I'm still shocked at how many people don't take hand washing etc seriously...hopefully things will improve, who really knows.  I still limit the amount of news that I read or watch and I have been avoiding any of the violent videos, I just can't have that playing in my head. How did things go from bad to worse, to unbelievably worser of worse. 😞

 

[Kyanight]

5 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

Pennsylvania is reopening county by county based on new COVID numbers.  My county officially went to DEFCON Green last Friday.  The biggest changes is that some restaurants are allowed to have outdoor seating and some even have indoor but the tables are fewer with the 6 feet between them.  You have to wear a mask into the restaurant but can remove it only when seated, putting it back on when up and about.

We went to get take-out from the Longhorn Steak House the other day.  They've been opened for about two weeks now. For awhile we sat in our car waiting for the take-out person to bring us the food but she didn't show.  As we were waiting we watched the people go inside to eat.  Out of about 10 people only TWO had masks on/with them.  Finally we went inside to get the food since it seemed she wasn't going to come - and even the take-out person and hostesses (there are two of them) weren't wearing masks!!  I KNOW this is in violation of the governors mandates (or whatever you call them.)  For some reasons it seems like many people today simply feel that rules are optional.  If you feel like following them - do.  But if you don't want to, then don't.

P.S.  I'm glad you found yeast!  I've noticed the grocery shelves are becoming full again!  😄

[Roslyn]

3 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

We went to get take-out from the Longhorn Steak House the other day.  They've been opened for about two weeks now. For awhile we sat in our car waiting for the take-out person to bring us the food but she didn't show.  As we were waiting we watched the people go inside to eat.  Out of about 10 people only TWO had masks on/with them.  Finally we went inside to get the food since it seemed she wasn't going to come - and even the take-out person and hostesses (there are two of them) weren't wearing masks!!  I KNOW this is in violation of the governors mandates (or whatever you call them.)  For some reasons it seems like many people today simply feel that rules are optional.  If you feel like following them - do.  But if you don't want to, then don't.

P.S.  I'm glad you found yeast!  I've noticed the grocery shelves are becoming full again!  😄

If people don't follow the rules it is up to the restaurants to enforce them, they are the ones who will get in trouble.  I was happy to find yeast too, I was THIS close to starting a sourdough starter lolol

[Kohola3]

6 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

For awhile we sat in our car waiting for the take-out person to bring us the food but she didn't show. 

I have been calling the local restaurants before ordering to see if they are still doing curbside. Most of them are not which really steams me.  I kept them in business during the total shutdown, driving the 40 miles to get a meal.  Now that the tourists are back in town, it's a "screw you" situation. So the places are packed, people all over the place without masks and I can't even get food.  So much for supporting the locals! 

I did send a note to the pizza place I always use and told him I was really peeved and he said that he immediately called a meeting of his staff and they were to honor anyone asking for curbside. I did feel better about that since I have been a loyal customer all along. 

It will be a cold day in hell before I will be eating inside any building and with people running around as if nothing is wrong I don't even want to go inside.  You have to touch doorknobs, counters, etc. and I don't care how much they declare that they are "sanitizing" you know darned well it's once or twice a day, not constantly.

[Kyanight]

One more thing...

 

True story.  Back when my kids were in school, one of my twins was having issues at school when a friend of his started bullying him.  My son never talked about it with me - he is one of those kids who is quiet quiet quiet until he feels like talking and then he goes on and on and on.  I guess he just felt like he could work it out on his own.  When you have 8 kids, they learn to problem solve on their own or they often rely on their siblings who are their best friends.

Anyway.... it all came to a head one day when this boy grabbed my sons burrito and crammed a third of it into his mouth as my son was on his way to sit down at a table and eat lunch.  My son protested and the kid slapped the food tray from the bottom and the rest of the lunch went flying across the room.  (Remember - eight kids.  Lunch money was hard to come by, so if your lunch is gone - you go hungry.)  My son hit the kid in the stomach.  Of course the principal called me, and if I recall correctly, my son was suspended from school for two days for getting physical.  Very fair, I thought.  There is no need to hit someone, even if you are mad.

My son and I discussed what was going on - turned out that this friend had been doing stuff like this for the last few months.  He'd eat his lunch and then take my son's cookie or chips or drink or whatever he felt like taking.  He'd trip my son in the hall, grab his backpack and not give it back for a bit - annoying teen boy stuff.

Well miraculously, after this all came to a head that day, my son and his friend were great - no more issues.  No more bullying, no more fighting!  I'd ask my son about it now and then, but everything was good between them.

At the end of the year my son and I were talking and I suddenly thought about asking how it was going with his friend.  Did he ever take his food again after that day?

My sons said that no, they got along great - but that the kid didn't really hang around with him anymore.  I was surprised and asked him, "Why is that?"  My son replied that the kid would rather hang out with this group of black guys - and that these guys did NOT like whites and made that clear.  I said, "But they like your friend?"  My son said, "Well yeah.. but he's black".

Oh.   Not once.  Not ONCE during that year and the lunch conflicts and getting suspended, etc.    - not ONCE did my son say the boy's race.  "This black boy is taking my lunch...."   It was NEVER mentioned - because what the hell does RACE have to do with anything?  It was two boys that had some issues and resolved them.  (Although I would have preferred my son didn't hit, but that's water WAY under the bridge now.)

That is how life should be, and THAT is how I raised my kids.  Skin color is immaterial.  You care about PEOPLE.  You like them for WHO they are, you dislike them for WHO they are.

 

Simple.

 

Sorry so long.  I'm old and at the moment I feel entitled and in my entitlement I want to babble.  So sue me.

 

HA HA HA - remember when everyone use to say that?  "So sue me".  I'm going to bring that phrase back.

[Yeah No]

34 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

One more thing...

 

True story.  Back when my kids were in school, one of my twins was having issues at school when a friend of his started bullying him.  My son never talked about it with me - he is one of those kids who is quiet quiet quiet until he feels like talking and then he goes on and on and on.  I guess he just felt like he could work it out on his own.  When you have 8 kids, they learn to problem solve on their own or they often rely on their siblings who are their best friends.

Anyway.... it all came to a head one day when this boy grabbed my sons burrito and crammed a third of it into his mouth as my son was on his way to sit down at a table and eat lunch.  My son protested and the kid slapped the food tray from the bottom and the rest of the lunch went flying across the room.  (Remember - eight kids.  Lunch money was hard to come by, so if your lunch is gone - you go hungry.)  My son hit the kid in the stomach.  Of course the principal called me, and if I recall correctly, my son was suspended from school for two days for getting physical.  Very fair, I thought.  There is no need to hit someone, even if you are mad.

My son and I discussed what was going on - turned out that this friend had been doing stuff like this for the last few months.  He'd eat his lunch and then take my son's cookie or chips or drink or whatever he felt like taking.  He'd trip my son in the hall, grab his backpack and not give it back for a bit - annoying teen boy stuff.

Well miraculously, after this all came to a head that day, my son and his friend were great - no more issues.  No more bullying, no more fighting!  I'd ask my son about it now and then, but everything was good between them.

At the end of the year my son and I were talking and I suddenly thought about asking how it was going with his friend.  Did he ever take his food again after that day?

My sons said that no, they got along great - but that the kid didn't really hang around with him anymore.  I was surprised and asked him, "Why is that?"  My son replied that the kid would rather hang out with this group of black guys - and that these guys did NOT like whites and made that clear.  I said, "But they like your friend?"  My son said, "Well yeah.. but he's black".

Oh.   Not once.  Not ONCE during that year and the lunch conflicts and getting suspended, etc.    - not ONCE did my son say the boy's race.  "This black boy is taking my lunch...."   It was NEVER mentioned - because what the hell does RACE have to do with anything?  It was two boys that had some issues and resolved them.  (Although I would have preferred my son didn't hit, but that's water WAY under the bridge now.)

That is how life should be, and THAT is how I raised my kids.  Skin color is immaterial.  You care about PEOPLE.  You like them for WHO they are, you dislike them for WHO they are.

That's a great story and don't worry about babbling, I love it when you babble!

It's just too bad that the boy ended up staying away from your son.  Oh well, that's just part of the world we live in that needs to change.

It reminds me of another story about my Mom.  For many years she always mentioned an old boyfriend from the late 1940s (before she met my Dad) that she called "Junior".  He must have been a great guy from all the stories she told me about him.  I always wondered why she never got married to him.  He was a lawyer in Harlem in NYC where she lived.  When I would ask her questions about why they broke up she was evasive about it but said that they remained friendly afterward and there were no hard feelings.

I never saw a photo of him until I was well into my 20s.  She had found an old box of photos and as we were going through them she became excited that she found one of Junior.  I was not prepared to find out that he was Black.  She had never mentioned it.  Suddenly it became obvious to me why they never got married.  At that time even dating a Black man was not considered OK by the vast majority of white people.   She told me that he came from a very prominent Harlem family and that neither one of them (especially him according to her) was up to dealing with the repercussions of getting married, which would have been really bad back then.  My mother's Sicilian family would not have been crazy about it either.

Needless to say I was quite proud of what I learned about my Mom that day.  It was not that much of a surprise because I knew that her best friend was black and that she was not a prejudiced person, but knowing that she was that progressive so early on really made me very proud of her.  She was an amazing person, my Mom.  Both of my parents were.  I'm tearing up now so I'll stop babbling myself!

[Kohola3]

22 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Needless to say I was quite proud of what I learned about my Mom that day.

She was a brave lady to have dated him, things were a lot different back then.  Even in WWII segregation was rampant. 

I just finished Welcome to the World Baby Girl by Fannie Flagg.  Great book and issues from the 40's are a big part of the book.

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

She was a brave lady to have dated him, things were a lot different back then.  Even in WWII segregation was rampant. 

She was brave!  Harlem was going through its "Renaissance" at that time.  Whites and blacks lived near each other and whites went to the black jazz clubs so it was a little more loosey goosey there than in most places.  As usual, though, my mother was ALWAYS ahead of her time.  With everything.  She is still ahead of her time almost 20 years after her death.

[Roslyn]

1 hour ago, Kyanight said:

HA HA HA - remember when everyone use to say that?  "So sue me".  I'm going to bring that phrase back.

...Michael Scott gave it a try... 😉

[Kyanight]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

It will be a cold day in hell before I will be eating inside any building and with people running around as if nothing is wrong I don't even want to go inside.  You have to touch doorknobs, counters, etc. and I don't care how much they declare that they are "sanitizing" you know darned well it's once or twice a day, not constantly.

Um.... yep.  While we were sitting outside of the Longhorn waiting for our take-out - we watched 5-6 couples walk inside.  RIGHT as we were walking in to pay, some guy came out and wiped down the door handles.  After all those people had touched those door handles, one after another.

The ONLY ONLY ONLY business I have been to that took this sort-of seriously (meaning I don't know how clean they are in the rest of the store) was our Target.  They have two self-checkout stations at each end of the store that has four lanes.  Target has placed an employee at each end  - they were always there - but now they wipe down the entire checkout machine after each and every customer.  EVERY time.  I've never seen them fail.  They won't allow the next person in line step forward to use it until they've cleaned it after the last customer.

On the other hand, our Walmart (grocery only) store has an employee standing there watching over about 10 self-checkouts and she NEVER wipes them down.  In fact, when I asked her for a wipe she had to to off somewhere to find one for me.  (Which was nice of her to do.  But still - why don't they wipe down their machines between customers?) And this goes for any different employee that is standing there.  They are checking for theft and there to help with problems - but NOT to wipe anything down.

Have any of you seen this?  I bought one for me and for some of my kids - it's SOOOO awesome!  I use it to open freezer doors and places that don't have automatic doors to walk through, I use to punch in numbers on keypads - it's so awesome!

(I don't necessarily recommend buying it from this guy - their feedback isn't very impressive.  I just wanted you to see it!!)  😄

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Hand-Hygiene-Brass-Door-Opener-Elevator-Handle-Key-Hand-Tool-2020-NEW/324144225921?hash=item4b78805e81:g:BGUAAOSwdNlel~MB

Edited June 10, 2020 by Kyanight

[Kohola3]

I'm kind of surprised the gizmo works on touch screen.  Most of them are looking for heat of some kind.

1 hour ago, Kyanight said:

They are checking for theft and there to help with problems - but NOT to wipe anything down.

Got that right.

[Teafortwo]

8 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

8 hours ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

Y'all been great, stay well and safe out there.

Safe travels to you. Check in and let us know what you are doing - you will be our eyes and ears out in the big world as some of us still hunker down.

Thank you for the update, Rabbit Hutch - really informative! Look forward to future reports from the road. It must be beautiful "Y"oming and Montana. You stay safe and well too! Glad you're enjoying, but I totally understand the impulse to retire. Do you think you'd get an RV so you could keep doing road trips after?

[Gramto6]

I don't remember where I read...maybe here.. sandwich bags on your hands for opening doors and any handles. I haven't tried them for the touch screen but my store has a bottle of sanitizer taped to the counter so I use that after I punch in my #'s. And of course clean  my hands back at the car. (The sanitizer 'taped' to the counter says a lot about life as it is now...)

[suomi]

I have been enjoying the heck out of the life experience posts and I'm impressed by the way we feel free to share our innermost thoughts and the respectful tone when we discuss our differences.

I've had a few color blind experiences, some were great and some left me SMH. I realize that the numbers in my sampling are quite small compared to many here but I can only share what I know. 

During the late '60s there was one Hispanic family with kids in my small SoCal mountain town (which mainly offered seasonal employment related to tourism. Even long-time locals scrambled for year-round jobs).

Their oldest daughter was nominated for Homecoming Queen during her freshman year at our one and only high school, when I was a senior. She was gorgeous but honestly seemed unaware of it and was liked by all. She won by a landslide, which I knew because one of my BFFs was a class officer who helped with the vote count. A freshman had never won HQ during the 30 years or however old the school was at that time. I never heard or heard about a slur during the campaign (and the other nominees and the entire school knew from Day One that it was no contest). The take-away wasn't that a beaner won but that a freshman won, and that's what blew me away. Yay, Yoli!

Thirty years ago I met someone who became a close friend when we worked in a salon in Phoenix and we ruled that place for a couple years. I ended up chasing a position in a Scottsdale salon and got it, woo hoo. It was a perfect fit, and a good salon is like a second family for those who work there. A few months in I found out they were hiring and I told my Phoenix friend that she should swing by for an interview, and my manager was expecting her. 

She was hired on the spot and I heard some version of "I didn't expect a black gal to show up" or "OMG I was so surprised when she walked in" from Every Single Person who worked there except for the manager, bless her heart.

Because it was unanimous it felt like they wanted to open my skull to see what went on in there.

Depending on who I was talking to my responses were "It didn't occur to me to mention it" or "She has killer skills and she's smart and funny" or "Stand by, 'cause she's gonna blow the doors off your totals" or "WTF is wrong with you?" 

In addition to that, in between my Phoenix and Scottsdale jobs the regional manager in Phoenix (a black guy) left his corporate position and opened a salon. That friend and I worked for him and I was the only white chick among the employees and the clients. Never gave it a second thought and I moved on after a few months only because it wasn't busy enough, soon enough. No one gave me a hard time and I would've stayed there longer if the money was better. 

I have a few complaints but many good feelings about the way I was raised. During the early '60s we lived in the El Lay basin. My stepdad was a first generation Italian-American who owned a music store and his weekly poker game was held at our house because we had the best record collection and hi-fi. The other players were store owners in the same mall and they could, I suppose, be categorized as two Jews, a black and a gay. To us kids they were Jack, Larry, Sam and Larry. We referred to the Larrys as Big Larry and Little Larry; they weren't Jew Larry and gay Larry. Sam wasn't black Sam to us, he was Sam the barber. The five wives and nine kids got along like ham and eggs. They took turns hosting pool parties and BBQs and the adults made frequent trips to Vegas because it was "only" a 4-hour drive. Those were The Rat Pack days and my stepdad loved shooting craps because he was a degenerate gambler. (Tip o' the hat to Tony Soprano). 

My parents made their share of child-rearing mistakes but they woulda handed us our broken teeth if they caught us talking or acting like bigots. My Anglo-Saxon maternal grandparents were extremely prejudiced and very free with name-calling and insults. They referred to my stepdad as The Dago and The Wop (behind his back) until they day they died. I loved them dearly but their mindset revolted me from an early age and I had that for reinforcement along with liking my teeth right where they were. 

Flash forward twenty years and my daughter was attending my K-8 school (again, the only one in town). A few black families had moved up the mountain by then and one of the daughters was in my daughter's class and in her posse. The kids called her Foxy Karen or Karen B (her last initial), no one called her black Karen or referred to her race in any other way. Crushes on boys, roller skating, dancing, avoiding chores, worrying about test scores, begging to wear makeup and praying for breasts united them. Nothing divided them. 

You know how some kids love to be rebels? I saw a few outlaw biker kids turn out straight-arrow while I was raising my daughter. That was a freakin' hoot and the parents were dumbfounded. "Where did we go wrong?" LOL

Little eyes and ears are like sponges, they absorb everything and we never can know what they will decide to accept or reject. We can hope but we can't know. We can't ignore differences but we don't have to focus on them in ways that continue to divide us. We need to examine and validate pain instead of ignoring it. We can't overlook historical injustice but we can be agents for change. 

I have really high hopes that today's youngs will be the turning point in all of the ways that matter. I think they are the most inclusive generation the world has ever seen. They leave no stone unturned. It's not like they accept A, B and C but say nuh-uh to D and E. They're all in for everyone, and it's about damn time. Let's hope their kids don't rebel! Many cultures still lag behind in enlightenment, yes, but I think they will eventually get there. Not the leaders but the masses, and that's where eventual change arises. 

[Meowwww]

19 hours ago, Kyanight said:

Um.... yep.  While we were sitting outside of the Longhorn waiting for our take-out - we watched 5-6 couples walk inside.  RIGHT as we were walking in to pay, some guy came out and wiped down the door handles.  After all those people had touched those door handles, one after another.

The ONLY ONLY ONLY business I have been to that took this sort-of seriously (meaning I don't know how clean they are in the rest of the store) was our Target.  They have two self-checkout stations at each end of the store that has four lanes.  Target has placed an employee at each end  - they were always there - but now they wipe down the entire checkout machine after each and every customer.  EVERY time.  I've never seen them fail.  They won't allow the next person in line step forward to use it until they've cleaned it after the last customer.

On the other hand, our Walmart (grocery only) store has an employee standing there watching over about 10 self-checkouts and she NEVER wipes them down.  In fact, when I asked her for a wipe she had to to off somewhere to find one for me.  (Which was nice of her to do.  But still - why don't they wipe down their machines between customers?) And this goes for any different employee that is standing there.  They are checking for theft and there to help with problems - but NOT to wipe anything down.

Have any of you seen this?  I bought one for me and for some of my kids - it's SOOOO awesome!  I use it to open freezer doors and places that don't have automatic doors to walk through, I use to punch in numbers on keypads - it's so awesome!

(I don't necessarily recommend buying it from this guy - their feedback isn't very impressive.  I just wanted you to see it!!)  😄

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Hand-Hygiene-Brass-Door-Opener-Elevator-Handle-Key-Hand-Tool-2020-NEW/324144225921?hash=item4b78805e81:g:BGUAAOSwdNlel~MB

I’ve wondered about that.  
Several grocery stores here have a plastic film on the pin pad where you pay with your card at the self checkout lanes. 
There’s a plastic film coating over the buttons.  But I’ve never seen it cleaned, it’s usually quite grubby because it’s nonstop person after person using them. 
Here in my little Wisconsin town, even at our Walmart, no one is wearing masks.  In my work town about 30 minutes from here, most are wearing masks, but it’s less and less people wearing them every day. 
 

[suomi]

"Make normal surgical masks much more effective."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/this-mind-blowing-trick-will-make-your-face-mask-so-much-safer/ar-BB15ikGN?li=BBnb7Kz

[Kyanight]

26 minutes ago, Meowwww said:

Here in my little Wisconsin town, even at our Walmart, no one is wearing masks.  In my work town about 30 minutes from here, most are wearing masks, but it’s less and less people wearing them every day. 

Yeah... it seems like the herd mentality has said that the pandemic is over.  "MOOOoOoove along folks!"   Meanwhile I am watching the numbers and keeping my fingers crossed that they will be HONEST and report ALL of the cases and deaths.   Last night on CNN I heard Fauci say he feels there might be 100,000 more deaths by August which makes sense as there is around 1000 deaths a day in the U.S. right now, which makes 30,000 a month.  And that's IF the cases don't rise because of protests and opening up.  I'm really tired of being so paranoid and cautious and I would LOVE to fling my masks aside and be able to touch ANYTHING in a store that others have man-handled, and stand next to folks without worrying, and go to some fun places that means massive crowds of people (festivals and fairs).  Unfortunately that's not my reality right now.  I want to die of old age in my sleep, please.  (Pops a prayer into Robyn's vending machine God.  She ended up with a million dollar home!!)

[DakotaJustice]

2 hours ago, Meowwww said:

I’ve wondered about that.  
Several grocery stores here have a plastic film on the pin pad where you pay with your card at the self checkout lanes. 
There’s a plastic film coating over the buttons.  But I’ve never seen it cleaned, it’s usually quite grubby because it’s nonstop person after person using them. 
Here in my little Wisconsin town, even at our Walmart, no one is wearing masks.  In my work town about 30 minutes from here, most are wearing masks, but it’s less and less people wearing them every day. 
 

TIP: I carry Q-tips in my pocket when going shopping. I use Apple Pay or tap my Chase Visa card to pay without having to dip the chip, and use the Q-tip to push the buttons. I can toss the Q-tip later. It does the job and it just seems silly to pay for a "Covid stylus" to do the same thing. 

ETA: if you haven't tried Tap to Pay yet, look at your card for the "wave" symbol. Chase switched their whole portfolio to tap a couple years ago. Also, Apple pay is ridiculously easy to use especially with an Apple watch. Both ways are much quicker than the chip dip. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by DakotaJustice

[AZChristian]

12 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

I don't remember where I read...maybe here.. sandwich bags on your hands for opening doors and any handles. I haven't tried them for the touch screen . . . 

We keep a box of sandwich bags in the car for opening doors, pumping gas, etc.  Hubby says the bags work fine when you're punching the touch screen buttons at the gas station.

Even now, I walk into every store with a clorox wipe opened on each hand.  I touch NOTHING with my bare hands.  The employees at the entrance see me wiping down the cart handle, and they say, "We clean every one of those before we bring them into the store."  I thank them for doing that, but remind them that "I" am the person most responsible for my health.  

If I'm in a pinch and don't have a sandwich bag or clorox in my hand, I use the bottom of my t-shirt to open doors where I have to touch the handle.

[Kyanight]

17 minutes ago, DakotaJustice said:

TIP: I carry Q-tips in my pocket when going shopping. I use Apple Pay or tap my Chase Visa card to pay without having to dip the chip, and use the Q-tip to push the buttons. I can toss the Q-tip later. It does the job and it just seems silly to pay for a "Covid stylus" to do the same thing. 

Except my "Covid stylus" opens doors.  

[Kohola3]

We may be COLs but we have some great survival instincts!  Thanks for the tips. I don't have anything to add except cutting eye holes in a grocery bag and wearing it for video conferences keeps people from shrieking in horror at my current hair "style".  PS use a paper bag, not plastic.  You don't want to look like you are on your way out to rob a 7-11.

1 hour ago, Kyanight said:

(Pops a prayer into Robyn's vending machine God.  She ended up with a million dollar home!!)

Hee!

Edited June 11, 2020 by Kohola3
just because