Small Talk: The Polygamous Cul-de-Sac

Teafortwo · April 23, 2020

On 4/17/2020 at 12:32 PM, Absolom said:

Regarding when to start receiving Social Security retirement benefits, I used to work there. The advice we gave clients was to calculate your benefits beginning now and to calculate benefits retiring at full benefit age. Add them up cumulatively. Then look to see when your break even point is. That's when you'll start having more overall from waiting. It sometimes helps people make the decision that waiting say 8 or 10 years to break even is or isn't worth it.

@Absolom, can you please explain how to find the break even point in more detail? Do you calculate the benefits beginning now until some fixed date in the future? Just add up every month from now until like age 90 or something? And then calculate the benefits for every month if retiring at the later date, from that date to age 90? Thanks in advance. I really enjoy working, had a job I loved til 3 weeks ago when all but 3 colleagues got laid off (they got laid off last week when the company had to suspend operations). I am looking for a new job, but I won't be riding public transit anytime soon so it will have to be something I do from home.

Meowwww · April 23, 2020

I wish I could sew. I ordered a few masks. I have one. Sewn by burly inmates at the MN Oak Park Heights Maximum Security Prison. (Hubby works in IT there).
All the masks I ordered are on indefinite back order. Blah.

Kyanight · April 23, 2020

Just now, Meowwww said:

I wish I could sew. I ordered a few masks. I have one. Sewn by burly inmates at the MN Oak Park Heights Maximum Security Prison. (Hubby works in IT there).
All the masks I ordered are on indefinite back order. Blah.

I got mine on Ebay. I know they are selling them on Etsy, too.

Gramto6 · April 23, 2020

Yeah, I ordered masks from Amazon on April 4, delivery date is May 22 to June 15...great. I ordered some wipes at the same time and that package has been lost in the mail. I did order 4 masks from Etsy that are on the way and will be here Friday. I have half of a box of old surgical masks (from 1997 when my DH was in hospice) that I can use in a pinch, but they are the tie on type and a pain to put on with long hair. When I do go out, I will definitely be wearing a mask!

Montana is reopening in phases starting on the 27th. The stay at home order will expire then and some stores/shops will be allowed to reopen. Social distancing is still in order. The first phase will be maintained until it can be determined that the virus is not increasing. As a senior (70) it is stated that I should still stay at home except for essential trips. We have only had 439 confirmed cases in the state, 14 deaths, and there were only 2 new cases yesterday. (There have only been 5 cases in my county.) But we all know there are those carriers out there... Counties can set their own restrictions. I feel it is too soon and personally I am going to continue as I have been since this all started. Last time I was out was April 9.

Kohola3 · April 23, 2020

3 minutes ago, Gramto6 said:

I feel it is too soon and personally I am going to continue as I have been since this all started. Last time I was out was April 9.

Totally agree. I am fortunate to be retired so I don't have to go out for any good reason. I have been sheltering since the beginning of March and will continue to do so until I have to go out and buy a hedge trimmer to cut my hair.

If we start opening up the world too soon the backlash will be worse than the beginning.

Gramto6 · April 23, 2020

4 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Totally agree. I am fortunate to be retired so I don't have to go out for any good reason. I have been sheltering since the beginning of March and will continue to do so until I have to go out and buy a hedge trimmer to cut my hair.

If we start opening up the world too soon the backlash will be worse than the beginning.

Yes, totally agree with you too. Retired here and just me in the house only go out every couple of weeks to collect my mail at the PO box and for some fresh veggies and fruit. I'm going to need a weed whacker for my hair when this is done!

They did say they will be watching the numbers very carefully. But I'm not risking my health this soon.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Gramto6

Absolom · April 23, 2020

56 minutes ago, Teafortwo said:

@Absolom, can you please explain how to find the break even point in more detail? Do you calculate the benefits beginning now until some fixed date in the future? Just add up every month from now until like age 90 or something? And then calculate the benefits for every month if retiring at the later date, from that date to age 90? Thanks in advance.

The short form would be say you'd get $200 a month retiring in June 2020. Just to make it easy say $250 a month retiring in June 2025. I'm leaving out annual cost of living adjustments that you might want to also consider.

You'd start getting checks in July (first full month retired just keep it simpler)

Retiring 2020 2025

2020 $1200 -

2021 $2400 -

2022 $2400 -

2023 $2400 -

2024 $2400 -

2025 $2400 $1500

2026 $2400 $3000

2027 $2400 $3000

2028 $2400 $3000

2029 $2400 $3000

to

2041 total $49, 200 $40,500

I won't bore everyone continuing the pattern, but I believe if you you continue the columns (that you would total) until 2041 to be ahead waiting for full benefit with the numbers I chose. So that case would take 21 years before you would be ahead by waiting for full benefit. Some people would decide it's better to take payment now. It's just another way of looking at the payments. Someone who needs the money sooner won't be giving up as much as they may think or someone who doesn't need the money could be ahead getting it earlier and investing it.

ETA: If the chart is unreadable, try viewing on lower magnification. Change the screen to 80 or 90%.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Absolom

Meowwww · April 23, 2020

2 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

Yeah, I ordered masks from Amazon on April 4, delivery date is May 22 to June 15...great. I ordered some wipes at the same time and that package has been lost in the mail. I did order 4 masks from Etsy that are on the way and will be here Friday. I have half of a box of old surgical masks (from 1997 when my DH was in hospice) that I can use in a pinch, but they are the tie on type and a pain to put on with long hair. When I do go out, I will definitely be wearing a mask!

Montana is reopening in phases starting on the 27th. The stay at home order will expire then and some stores/shops will be allowed to reopen. Social distancing is still in order. The first phase will be maintained until it can be determined that the virus is not increasing. As a senior (70) it is stated that I should still stay at home except for essential trips. We have only had 439 confirmed cases in the state, 14 deaths, and there were only 2 new cases yesterday. (There have only been 5 cases in my county.) But we all know there are those carriers out there... Counties can set their own restrictions. I feel it is too soon and personally I am going to continue as I have been since this all started. Last time I was out was April 9.

My brain says it’s too soon. My working self, who is dealing with people who are over it and coming in in droves, says lift the stay at home order. No one is obeying anyway. Even my senior customers are coming in the store to browse, no masks or gloves.

Teafortwo · April 23, 2020

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

I believe if you you continue the columns (that you would total) until 2041 to be ahead waiting for full benefit with the numbers I chose. So that case would take 21 years before you would be ahead by waiting for full benefit. Some people would decide it's better to take payment now. It's just another way of looking at the payments. Someone who needs the money sooner won't be giving up as much as they may think or someone who doesn't need the money could be ahead getting it earlier and investing it.

Beautiful! Thank you very much for elaborating!!

smarty · April 23, 2020

Is my logic off when I calculate the SS break even point this way:

Find what you'd get at your current age. Let's use an example of $1500 a month at age 62.

Figure out what you'd get at your full retirement age of 67. Let's use $2000 as an example.

67 is 5 years (or 60 months) past your current age of 62. Multiply your 62 amount by 60 months to figure out what you'd receive over the next 5 years if you take it early. $1500 X 60 = $90,000.

If you wait until 67 you will receive an extra $500 a month for as long as you live. To figure out your break even take the $90,000 and divide it by the extra $500 and that tells you how long it will take to make up for the $90,000 you didn't get from ages 62 to 67. That gives you 180 months it takes to break even (or 15 years).

AZChristian · April 23, 2020

21 hours ago, Kyanight said:

OH!! A great idea I picked up somewhere - probably on FB. You can buy a package of sandwich baggies and slip your hand into one to punch numbers on a keypad or pull open freezer doors at the grocery store, etc. etc. That way the gloves are saved for the medical personnel. I bought a package of sandwich bags this morning and opened it up at the checkout and tested it then and there. Worked GREAT -

We've been doing this since the beginning - even before masks and gloves were recommended. It is a really good option.

A lady in our community is making masks and putting them out in a basket on her driveway, making them available for free to residents. Someone helped themselves to 10 of the 12 that were in the basket the other morning. Asshole. We are a mobile home community. NOBODY has 10 people living in their mobile home.

Some folks have been donating fabric and elastic to her - neither of which I have. So we stopped by the other day with some money, wrapped it in a clorox wipe, put it in a sandwich bag, and told her husband through their kitchen window that we were making a contribution to the mask production.

And (elsewhere on the Sisterwives postings), Janelle is asking what you're doing for yourself, and Mariah is disobeying travel guidelines to she can stay with her Mommy at the B&B, doing yoga and drinking fancy water.

Assholes. I could see the two of them driving up and helping themselves to 10 masks, and they don't even LIVE here.

xwordfanatik · April 23, 2020

I had on hand some food service type gloves (rilly thin plastic, like Saran Wrap.) I use them when I make salsa and chop raw peppers. They look like Mickey Mouse gloves as they're one size fits most. I've been using them on my walks with hand lotion underneath, as I have dermatitis from all the hand washing (I'm OCD anyway, and never more so than now.) The last time my hands were in this shape was when I was changing my daughter's diapers 35+ years ago. At night, I slather on Working Hands creme. Great stuff.

I'm on my way to Etsy to check out masks. I've sewn a couple with my vintage '72 sewing machine, and they look like crap, but they'll do for now. I've been having groceries delivered or using curbside pickup. I haven't been inside a store since the first week in March. Even when restrictions are eased up, I plan on remaining a hermit for the foreseeable future. I love reading here and hearing ideas and getting inspiration. Using sandwich bags is something I wouldn't have thought of, and it's a very good idea. If I have to use a drive-up ATM, I will be doing that.

Absolom · April 23, 2020

2 hours ago, smarty2020 said:

Is my logic off when I calculate the SS break even point this way:

There are many ways to do the calculation. 🙂 I showed the one we were taught to give to people because the general public has quite varied levels of math expertise. It's the most basic and generally understood easily when presented in person. We used a formula when doing it for people.

smarty · April 23, 2020

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

There are many ways to do the calculation. 🙂 I showed the one we were taught to give to people because the general public has quite varied levels of math expertise. It's the most basic and generally understood easily when presented in person. We used a formula when doing it for people.

Thanks Absolom, I've been trying to figure out a way to determine if it is worth it to wait until 67 or 70 to take SS or to start at 62. We could wait until later so the SS amount is bigger, drawing out of savings until SS kicks in. Or we take it earlier and don't have to use as much savings in the short term. Hard to decide what is financially better to do. With an over 10 year payback for us, it would take until 80 years old to break even (I think) if we waited until 70 to start. Hopefully we'd live that long lol.

AZChristian · April 23, 2020

15 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

I'm on my way to Etsy to check out masks. I've sewn a couple with my vintage '72 sewing machine, and they look like crap, but they'll do for now.

Even when restrictions are eased up, I plan on remaining a hermit for the foreseeable future.

Go to google and look for "masks made out of socks." No sewing, and better than no mask at all!

I'm with you on the not rushing back outside. I am concerned that there's going to be a second wave of higher infections because people are not going to be careful enough when we're allowed to go back outside.

Kyanight · April 23, 2020

45 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

A lady in our community is making masks and putting them out in a basket on her driveway, making them available for free to residents. Someone helped themselves to 10 of the 12 that were in the basket the other morning. Asshole. We are a mobile home community. NOBODY has 10 people living in their mobile home.

I'm taking care of three other people besides myself - I'm wondering if that was the case with these people who took so many? But even then - 10-12??? Nope. And even if they DID take them to give to people who can't get out of their homes - wouldn't they ASK first? That was just wrong.

Absolom · April 23, 2020

When working there we were not to try sway people one way or the other, however, we could bring up considering how long it would take to recoup. We would definitely bring it up to someone who came in with heart failure or who looked in obvious bad health in hopes they'd consider an earlier option. Generally you'd be better off taking the earlier benefit than living off savings because of losing the interest compounding on the savings. Having worked there I can only say generally because we had to emphasize each person has to review their own situation. 🙂

Edited April 23, 2020 by Absolom

Absolom · April 23, 2020

6 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Go to google and look for "masks made out of socks." No sewing, and better than no mask at all!

I'm with you on the not rushing back outside. I am concerned that there's going to be a second wave of higher infections because people are not going to be careful enough when we're allowed to go back outside.

My sewing machine is at my daughter's house with young children so I made mine by hand. If you can push a needle in and out, that's really all it takes if you have material, needle, and thread at home. If you don't, a scarf or bandana will work.

I'm wondering if I'll be stuck in the house until we have a vaccine. Perhaps a couple months this summer we'll be able to get out and get a few things done.

Kyanight · April 23, 2020

11 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I'm with you on the not rushing back outside. I am concerned that there's going to be a second wave of higher infections because people are not going to be careful enough when we're allowed to go back outside.

My oldest daughter and I have been keeping track of the number of cases world/U.S./our state since March. This site is very accurate - assuming that the countries reporting are being honest - which I HIGHLY doubt regarding some countries. North Korea SWEARS they are the only country on earth that has had zero cases. Someone (don't remember who - probably some random person on FB) said snidely (but maybe partly serious) that they probably shoot anyone who dares to come down with it. I don't believe THAT - I just think North Korea is lying and that they have the disease just like everywhere else. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I know that the numbers that are reported on our state website are ALWAYS a 100% match with what this site reports, so I think it's as accurate as it can be.

This is the link for just the U.S. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

ANYWAY.... I'm always so long-winded.... I feel EGGZACTLY like you ladies do - nothing is changing in MY world. I'm always wearing a mask when I leave my house - and I will not be going to restaurants except for take-out, no thrift stores, probably won't get a haircut (the thought of sitting in the chair that tons of other people sat in/got up/new person sat in/etc. horrifies me - not to mention everything else around a haircut station. How can you sanitize EVERYTHING the way it needs to be, to be safe?) No Renaissance Fair this year - I hope to survive this AND not pass this to anyone else.

I will be watching to see how these number go up in the next few weeks. I hope I am wrong - but I think they are going to go WAY up.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Kyanight

Kohola3 · April 23, 2020

13 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

I will be watching to see how these number go up in the next few weeks. I hope I am wrong - but I think they are going to go WAY up.

And the sad part is that the states that open things up and then see a surge will have started the second wave with their greed. And the rest of the states that chose to stay closed will still suffer.

Until there is a vaccine I will be treading very carefully!

TurtlePower · April 23, 2020

2 hours ago, Kyanight said:

My oldest daughter and I have been keeping track of the number of cases world/U.S./our state since March. This site is very accurate - assuming that the countries reporting are being honest - which I HIGHLY doubt regarding some countries. North Korea SWEARS they are the only country on earth that has had zero cases. Someone (don't remember who - probably some random person on FB) said snidely (but maybe partly serious) that they probably shoot anyone who dares to come down with it. I don't believe THAT - I just think North Korea is lying and that they have the disease just like everywhere else. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I know that the numbers that are reported on our state website are ALWAYS a 100% match with what this site reports, so I think it's as accurate as it can be.

This is the link for just the U.S. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

ANYWAY.... I'm always so long-winded.... I feel EGGZACTLY like you ladies do - nothing is changing in MY world. I'm always wearing a mask when I leave my house - and I will not be going to restaurants except for take-out, no thrift stores, probably won't get a haircut (the thought of sitting in the chair that tons of other people sat in/got up/new person sat in/etc. horrifies me - not to mention everything else around a haircut station. How can you sanitize EVERYTHING the way it needs to be, to be safe?) No Renaissance Fair this year - I hope to survive this AND not pass this to anyone else.

I will be watching to see how these number go up in the next few weeks. I hope I am wrong - but I think they are going to go WAY up.

So, there are hundreds and probably thousands of us who have had Covid who were not tested and therefore not counted. I'm certain I had it but I "hadn't traveled", so they would not test me (I guess 92% O2 saturation wasn't low enough). I personally know 9 others who were sick and they were not tested because it was so early-on. So the numbers are not correct--we will not know until antibody tests are widely available.

My worry with all this are the people who still need to pay their house payments and car payments and have no income. Many people will not have jobs to return to and unemployment offices and websites are overwhelmed. We're going to see a lot of people losing their cars and homes/apartments, getting evicted and have no way to feed their families. Not all debtors are giving forbearance, and certainly won't do so long-term.

It's ugly either way. Somehow, the "sides" must meet in the middle somewhere. If we stay home for months, some of us won't have homes to live in much longer because we can't afford to keep them. If we jump back too soon, we'll suffer more spread.

Anyways, we're allowed to venture outside so I'm still running and I have a home gym so, minus work, life as usual for me. I was social distancing before it had a name (thanks autism lol).

Twopper · April 23, 2020

23 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

It's ugly either way. Somehow, the "sides" must meet in the middle somewhere. If we stay home for months, some of us won't have homes to live in much longer because we can't afford to keep them. If we jump back too soon, we'll suffer more spread.

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

I'm wondering if I'll be stuck in the house until we have a vaccine. Perhaps a couple months this summer we'll be able to get out and get a few things done.

I will be very surprised if we get a vaccine anytime ~~soon.~~ Every year the flu vaccine is iffy--50% for A, and 40% for B. Not sure if those are the %s for this year or last, but it never is 100%. I am old enough to remember the swine flu "epidemic" in 1976 and the rush for a vaccination. And there isn't one yet for HIV/AIDS yet. I think maybe we are lulled into believing in the vaccines because the smallpox and polio ones were so successful. All the classes above me in school had students that were crippled by polio.

The original idea of "sheltering" in place was to keep the hospitals from being over-run with WuFlu. Except for hot spots like NYC, NOLA, and Albany, GA, that doesn't seem to be happening in most places. I know nurses and other medical staff who are being laid off because they have no patients since hospitals are no longer doing any but emergency surgery. The goal post then seems to be changed to "shelter in place" until there are no new cases or something like that. I think states should "open" in stages. In Georgia, for example, the Albany area and Atlanta probably need to stay "closed" for a longer period, but there are a lot of counties that seem to be doing okay.

We are okay as we are retired and own our home. The son and DIL have/had their own business and can't work. Daughter and SIL just got their PHDs a few years ago and have untenured positions. We are very concerned for all of them.

suomi · April 23, 2020

34 minutes ago, Twopper said:

I think maybe we are lulled into believing in the vaccines because the smallpox and polio ones were so successful. All the classes above me in school had students that were crippled by polio.

I read an article this morning mentioning that current vaccination rates are falling to a scary place. Parents for various reasons are not bringing in their littles for their shots and/or are not competing a required series. 😞

Sandy W · April 23, 2020

I read a rather wry comment today, it went something like "Having some states in lockdown and others not, is a bit like having a peeing section in a swimming pool".

xwordfanatik · April 23, 2020

42 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

I read a rather wry comment today, it went something like "Having some states in lockdown and others not, is a bit like having a peeing section in a swimming pool".

I would have thought that every state would be restricted by now. I'm in WA, and at first just a few counties were locked down. When it became apparent that wasn't enough, the state closed all non-essential businesses, and I can't imagine that will change anytime very soon.

Is the second wave of this going to happen largely because of not staying in lockdown long enough? Now I'm wondering which states aren't following recommendations. Not that I plan any travel for months, if not years.

I told my doctor on our phone visit that I've quit reading the newspaper and watching the news. Mr. Xword isn't as freaked out about all this as I am, and I've asked him to only tell me things about this pandemic that I absolutely need to know. I do read here for helpful information, and I thank all of you for your posts.

Twopper mentioning polio vaccine made me think about a cute guy I knew in high school. He got polio as a baby or toddler, and he was lucky to recover with the only lasting effect being a slight paralysis of his facial muscles, which made his smile a bit lop-sided. I had a huge crush on him, but sadly, he only had eyes for one of my girlfriends. And she wasn't interested! Ah, young love! ❤️

Kyanight · April 23, 2020

xwordfanatik · April 23, 2020

Thank you @Kyanight, a little levity is what I needed! 🙂🙂

Adiba · April 23, 2020

2 hours ago, Twopper said:

I will be very surprised if we get a vaccine anytime ~~soon.~~ Every year the flu vaccine is iffy--50% for A, and 40% for B. Not sure if those are the %s for this year or last, but it never is 100%. I am old enough to remember the swine flu "epidemic" in 1976 and the rush for a vaccination. And there isn't one yet for HIV/AIDS yet. I think maybe we are lulled into believing in the vaccines because the smallpox and polio ones were so successful. All the classes above me in school had students that were crippled by polio.

The original idea of "sheltering" in place was to keep the hospitals from being over-run with WuFlu. Except for hot spots like NYC, NOLA, and Albany, GA, that doesn't seem to be happening in most places. I know nurses and other medical staff who are being laid off because they have no patients since hospitals are no longer doing any but emergency surgery. The goal post then seems to be changed to "shelter in place" until there are no new cases or something like that. I think states should "open" in stages. In Georgia, for example, the Albany area and Atlanta probably need to stay "closed" for a longer period, but there are a lot of counties that seem to be doing okay.

We are okay as we are retired and own our home. The son and DIL have/had their own business and can't work. Daughter and SIL just got their PHDs a few years ago and have untenured positions. We are very concerned for all of them.

I have tried to say the same thing on my local news Facebook page about the lockdown and vaccines and was accused of being negative and uncaring (?)— it’s as if any critical thinking has gone out the window!

My elderly parents and two siblings live in northern NJ— one sister’s spouse is a first responder there, the hot zone for the virus. So no, I am not uncaring or unworried about the disease, but I am open to thinking about ways to continue living with the existence of the virus.
If and when a safe, reliable vaccine becomes available to the general public (at the earliest 18 months-2 years) who is to say everyone will get vaccinated or that there won’t be a shortage?

Kyanight · April 23, 2020

5 minutes ago, Adiba said:

I have tried to say the same thing on my local news Facebook page about the lockdown and vaccines and was accused of being negative and uncaring (?)— it’s as if any critical thinking has gone out the window!

My elderly parents and two siblings live in northern NJ— one sister’s spouse is a first responder there, the hot zone for the virus. So no, I am not uncaring or unworried about the disease, but I am open to thinking about ways to continue living with the existence of the virus.
If and when a safe, reliable vaccine becomes available to the general public (at the earliest 18 months-2 years) who is to say everyone will get vaccinated or that there won’t be a shortage?

AND.... viruses mutate. That is why there is a different strain of flu every year. We've all encountered types of flu before - this is a NOVEL virus - never sickened human beings before. So much is unknown. For example there are at LEAST 169 known cases who recovered and then caught it again. What does this say for immunities? There is a concern that this virus is damaging healthy lungs. They say it is causing blood clots. And protesters say it is just "the flu".

The problem is that it is mostly fatal to the elderly and those with health issues. There is a certain callousness amongst society for both groups, when it comes to certain people. Kill off a bunch of old people? Well that's less Social Security to pay out and less of a burden on the health care system. Likewise - do people with serious health issues work and contribute to the economy? For the most part this doesn't touch youth hardly at all. So you have all of these people who simply don't give a damn hollering about how their rights are violated (but I guess it's their right to infect whoever they please if they get sick) and CEOs and powerful government figures whose fortunes are being threatened that spout on about how this is a hoax and a political ploy and let's just open everything wide open again - throw caution to the wind. I am almost positive that NONE of these people have lost someone close to them from Covid, or perhaps even know anyone who has caught the virus.

A certain official in Las Vegas wants to open stadiums and casinos and hotels. Now. How? That's not her problem. It's the casino's and other people's issue. Do people in Las Vegas STAY in Las Vegas? Of course not. They take the virus home anywhere and everywhere.

:::::: Jumps off my soap box ::::: I tried to be careful when I was ranting... to not get too political and keep it general...... but it felt good to get that off my chest. I have too many friends on FB who feel that being cooped up for a few weeks was too high of a price to pay for many people's lives.

Kohola3 · April 24, 2020

Kyanight, a thousand likes to your post. It's like you are in my head - although that's a dangerous place to be right now!

I am so incensed with the thought that opening up tattoo parlors and bowling alleys will a) save the economy and b) can ever be considered essential services. The world is just spinning off its axis.

Yeah No · April 24, 2020

On 4/22/2020 at 9:19 PM, Absolom said:

I won't bore everyone continuing the pattern, but I believe if you you continue the columns (that you would total) until 2041 to be ahead waiting for full benefit with the numbers I chose. So that case would take 21 years before you would be ahead by waiting for full benefit. Some people would decide it's better to take payment now. It's just another way of looking at the payments. Someone who needs the money sooner won't be giving up as much as they may think or someone who doesn't need the money could be ahead getting it earlier and investing it.

Thanks for this. I suppose it's even more complicated when you're talking about two married people taking the early retirement age. I know some people say that you have to first figure out how long you expect to live before making this decision, but I always say I don't have a crystal ball, so how can I do that? LOL Right now I'm worried about my chances of making it through the next year. I can't predict my chances after that. It seems like a bigger gamble right now than I feel comfortable making.

Also, there are limits to how much you can earn between 62 and 67 and I know my husband (who just turned 64) would not want to live with that restriction if possible (we can't afford it anyway), and since we don't know how long we're going to be in this pandemic boat, that's also hard to predict. Not to mention that I won't be able to start collecting from my other sources of retirement income like pension, annuity and 401Ks until I'm 65. And I'm not going to take the huge hit from withdrawing from THOSE early. I can't afford to do that - the penalties are very big.

From what I've read, a lot of experts say that if you can afford to live on the reduced income early on in your retirement, it's not a bad idea to collect SS at age 62, but in my case that isn't going to work. My best friend was fortunate enough to have parents that left her a secret bank account with tons of money in it when they died that she's invested and is supplementing herself with so that she can take the early retirement (she just turned 62 this month). Good for her, that works for her, but unfortunately my husband and I don't have a supplemental source of income to meet our bills. We were one of those couples that never recovered from the recession of 2008, when all our life savings was depleted and even now our house is STILL not worth much more than we owe on it (thanks to the area we live in, which has never bounced back after 10 years, and we are far from alone in this predicament in this area too). This is a very expensive area of the country - Social Security is worth even less here than in other areas. We are living on savings right now, but that can go down to nothing in a small amount of time. What with my other issues regarding my father's apartment, maybe even a shorter time.

Just how many tsunamis can you recover from at this stage of life? My husband and I have had to reinvent ourselves several times over in our lives but this one seems like the one that might just wipe us out. We're fresh out of ideas for how to make money at this point, and at our age we are fighting an age discrimination battle as well.

I appreciate the advice, though, and if anyone has any more that might help, do share!

Edited April 24, 2020 by Yeah No

Yeah No · April 24, 2020

14 hours ago, Absolom said:

When working there we were not to try sway people one way or the other, however, we could bring up considering how long it would take to recoup. We would definitely bring it up to someone who came in with heart failure or who looked in obvious bad health in hopes they'd consider an earlier option. Generally you'd be better off taking the earlier benefit than living off savings because of losing the interest compounding on the savings. Having worked there I can only say generally because we had to emphasize each person has to review their own situation. 🙂

It's hard for my husband and I to justify losing $1,000 per month of income over the course of 20 years or more just to get over this rough patch. That's a lot of money from our point of view. There has to be a better solution, we just haven't found it yet. My father lived to 92. He probably could have lived at least another year or two if the pandemic didn't take him out. My mother lived to 77, but she had more medical issues than I have. My husband's father lived to 92 as well. His mother lived to 78, but she was a heavy smoker and died of emphysema. So I usually imagine that we might live into our late 80s or more if we manage to survive this pandemic. I am actually more worried about surviving later on in life than earlier. Things usually get more expensive and the bulk of my other sources of retirement income are not set in stone and are vulnerable to market conditions, plus I am concerned about how long we can stretch those out to begin with. So those are more reasons I don't think the early option is a good idea for my husband and me.

Gramto6 · April 24, 2020

(((@YeahNo))) I wish I had some idea to help you, please know I am praying that you find peace and happiness in life and can get through this difficult time.

Yeah No · April 24, 2020

12 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

My worry with all this are the people who still need to pay their house payments and car payments and have no income. Many people will not have jobs to return to and unemployment offices and websites are overwhelmed. We're going to see a lot of people losing their cars and homes/apartments, getting evicted and have no way to feed their families. Not all debtors are giving forbearance, and certainly won't do so long-term.

My husband owns and drives his own limo. His job is one of the WORST from the point of view of avoiding this virus. Even if travel does loosen up after a while he would be taking his (and my) life in his hands every time someone got in his car. Not to mention that a huge part of his work is related to travel to and from NYC - Just about the WORST place possible and we anticipate that it will not open up any time soon. Thoughts of putting up barriers and wearing gas masks are fleeting and probably wouldn't even work. Try wearing a mask or respirator while driving for hours at a time! I am scared to DEATH that he will eventually feel like he has no other alternative. I don't know what I would do in that case. I could not live with that. I have nightmares about it regularly.

We have both applied for the special CARES unemployment benefits. He has also applied for one of those small business loans. We have taken advantage of the mortgage deferment but at the end of 3 months they're going to expect the full 3 months of payments. I was making around $1,000 a month on eBay before this selling my old clothing and some valuable pencils that my mother left me. I also had some good luck on clearance racks before the stores closed and was selling that stuff for a profit. But none of that is selling right now. My income from March 15 - April 15 was a grand total of $79.00.

I have a car lease that ends on June 30. I don't know what I'm going to do with it. I could buy the car or lease a new one. Yet another decision to make that I don't know how to make right now with zero income. I might end up just turning it in and driving my husband's old 2011 Lincoln Towncar that he still keeps unregistered in the driveway. It has several hundred thousand miles on it, so I'm not sure that's a good idea, though. It's a tough choice.

Hubbie could always sell the Mercedes, although at this point at its age and with its mileage it probably isn't worth that much, plus he wants to hold onto it should things go back to normal - he needs a limo. that's registered as a limo.

And that's not even factoring in what I am facing with my father's apartment.

I fantasize about tracking down my husband's almost-billionaire client and telling him we need him now more than ever. He told my husband that he considered him "a business partner" and that he would never let him flounder financially. He was supposed to call us a few weeks ago but has disappeared.

Another one of my husband's rich clients asked him how he could help us and my husband has been ashamed to ask him for help. Yet again I want to intervene but don't feel it is my place, not to mention that my husband would be mad at me if I did.

Sometimes I don't know how I face every day with all of this going on. I know we are far from alone but we have so many particularly bad strikes against us at this point that I am still praying for a miracle.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Yeah No

Yeah No · April 24, 2020

8 hours ago, Kyanight said:

The problem is that it is mostly fatal to the elderly and those with health issues. There is a certain callousness amongst society for both groups, when it comes to certain people. Kill off a bunch of old people? Well that's less Social Security to pay out and less of a burden on the health care system. Likewise - do people with serious health issues work and contribute to the economy? For the most part this doesn't touch youth hardly at all. So you have all of these people who simply don't give a damn hollering about how their rights are violated (but I guess it's their right to infect whoever they please if they get sick) and CEOs and powerful government figures whose fortunes are being threatened that spout on about how this is a hoax and a political ploy and let's just open everything wide open again - throw caution to the wind. I am almost positive that NONE of these people have lost someone close to them from Covid, or perhaps even know anyone who has caught the virus.

You sound just like me. What gets me is how many healthy people under 50 I see being taken on gurneys to the hospital and dying. There are factors unrelated to age that they don't even know about yet that make certain people more at risk. I've heard about several theories, but there's no real evidence of anything yet. Blood type theories, genetic component theories, etc. But yeah, the fact that there is greater risk with age is of course bringing out the age related bias that young people have. It makes me SICK. I'm only 61, I'm not old enough to be considered "expendable" in my mind! Just wait until they realize how short life is and how soon they'll be my age!

I loved what Andy Cuomo had to say about the "opening up" issue on his brother's show on the 22nd. Not going to say more about that because I don't want to get into politics, but it's worth watching if you can.

I couldn't believe it, but the other day a 4th cousin of mine I barely know who lives in the UK sent me a link via Facebook to a "conspiracy theory" video in which a supposedly respected doctor who is routinely put the "top 5 doctors" list was claiming that the pandemic was a huge nothingburger and grossly overblown. He was being interviewed by one of those YouTube "conspiracy theory news networks". She knows that my father died of this, she sent me condolences on Facebook and yet she STILL wants to push some kind of conspiracy theory/hoax angle? And she's in her 70's to boot! It's insane! I didn't even respond!

I have been going on about how none of these people protesting has probably had anyone close to them die of this, that's got to be the case. But if they keep doing what they're doing, they WILL know someone soon enough, and it could be THEM!

But my cousin, what's HER excuse? It just boggles the mind!

Also mind boggling are the older people in my area I see STILL walking into stores with no masks or gloves. And this is after the governor ORDERED us to wear them into stores! These people must have a death wish!

Kohola3 · April 24, 2020

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

These people must have a death wish!

If only the Natural Selection rule would work on these idiots they would die and the gene pool would be rid of one more moron. Sadly, it doesn't seem to work like that. Innocent people following the rules pick it up from one of them while they carry on without getting ill. It's insane.

Kyanight · April 24, 2020

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Just how many tsunamis can you recover from at this stage of life? My husband and I have had to reinvent ourselves several times over in our lives but this one seems like the one that might just wipe us out. We're fresh out of ideas for how to make money at this point, and at our age we are fighting an age discrimination battle as well.

I appreciate the advice, though, and if anyone has any more that might help, do share!

Aw Yeah No, I think about you all of the time. It really does seem like life is kicking you in the butt right now. I'm hoping a window will open for you, and that is what I pray about every night. I wish God DID have a vending machine, like Robyn believes.

laurakaye · April 24, 2020

On 4/22/2020 at 1:53 PM, DakotaJustice said:

Most of the stores I go to aren't taking cash, period.

This morning, I stopped at Starbucks for the first time in weeks. To pay, I handed over cash and watched as the barista put on a glove to handle my money. I was like, "Oh no, wait - I can pay by card!" She smiled and said it was fine, but I felt bad afterwards. So many things have changed so drastically in such a relatively short amount of time, I sometimes lose myself in the semi-normal things such as buying a coffee and I forget that the entire world has changed. If I sit and think on it too hard, though, I start to feel a bit of panic set in so I think it's sometimes better to just get by one day at a time.

I have a friend in Atlanta, and Georgia is opening back up today. I think the entire country is going to be looking very carefully at that state to see what happens, given that their predicted peak is still a week or so away. It's just super scary and a bizarre stance to take - let's all see what happens to the states that are opening back up! States should not be guinea pigs for the rest of the country. My friend has no intentions of going to get a manicure or going bowling, however.

Yeah No · April 24, 2020

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

If only the Natural Selection rule would work on these idiots they would die and the gene pool would be rid of one more moron. Sadly, it doesn't seem to work like that. Innocent people following the rules pick it up from one of them while they carry on without getting ill. It's insane.

It's always the older people I see that are the most careless. One would think they would be more careful considering the odds. One of my friends is 66 - she goes out shopping every day to all different stores like Costco, BJ's, Walmart and Target like nothing is different. She wears the N95 mask her husband gave her and winter gloves, but she is taking too many chances. She also took her hair stylist up on an offer to cut and color her hair at the stylist's house. My friend claimed that her hair was "driving her crazy" and she "just couldn't stand it anymore". I couldn't believe she would actually go through with it, but she DID! I told her, "my hair is driving me nuts too but it's not worth my LIFE". It's not even just the stylist I'd be afraid of, but who else the stylist was in contact with. I think she's nuts! I usually don't open my mouth about certain things but this time told her I didn't think what she was doing was ethical because first of all, stylists know salons frown upon them doing "side work", but perhaps more importantly they weren't observing the mandated "social distancing". She acted clueless about this like I was telling her something she didn't even realize pertained to her. She's a smart woman, how could she not realize this???

Toward the end of his life my father often didn't go to the doctor when he should have and didn't take meds he should have taken or followed up on therapies to help himself, but in the end he was doing all the right things in letting in all the nurses and health aides that were helping him get better. He had made a phenomenal recovery in only a month since his leg infection. How ironic and cruel for him to get the virus from one of his caregivers, likely unbeknownst to them, when both of them were supposedly doing the right thing. It seems like this virus conforms to the general rule of drunk drivers in that they seem to die and get hurt less often than the people they hit.

laurakaye · April 24, 2020

Michigan just extended its stay home order through May 15. However, golf courses and bike shops are both being allowed to open, and people can go out on their boats and travel to their cabins up north. Also, masks are now required at stores (before, they were "recommended.")

So...............on we go.

Kohola3 · April 24, 2020

47 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

....travel to their cabins up north.

We have already seen an increase in cases in northern MI from people defying the ban. Two have died in our county having brought it from the Detroit area. Sheesh. Our little hospital is the only one for 30 square miles and has a total of 19 beds. Guess I had better plan on hiding out.

xwordfanatik · April 24, 2020

Since I quit reading the paper, I don't know when WA will be allowing any businesses to reopen. I just pray it won't be too soon when it happens.

My grey roots can wait for a long, long time. Not important at all. I do have some spray-on temporary color I could use, but I'm kind of curious as to what I'll look like. I have shoulder length curly hair. Ack! What if I end up looking like Kootie's mother? I don't have as many wrinkles, fortunately! 🤭

Absolom · April 24, 2020

56 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

We have already seen an increase in cases in northern MI from people defying the ban. Two have died in our county having brought it from the Detroit area. Sheesh. Our little hospital is the only one for 30 square miles and has a total of 19 beds. Guess I had better plan on hiding out.

I hate to admit it, but I have a friend who lives in Kentucky and she and her husband thought it was a good idea to leave Kentucky and the major hospitals in their city and go to their cabin in northern MI when this all began. I thought at the time she was out of mind.

Yeah No · April 25, 2020

12 hours ago, Kyanight said:

Aw Yeah No, I think about you all of the time. It really does seem like life is kicking you in the butt right now. I'm hoping a window will open for you, and that is what I pray about every night. I wish God DID have a vending machine, like Robyn believes.

Thanks again for your prayers. It looks like I'm really going to need that vending machine. Now I need prayers for my nephew by marriage. He is 35 years old and works in a hospital as a physical therapy assistant in Orange County, NY. Since the Covid crisis he has been put on orderly duties at the hospital dealing with Covid patients, not something he really signed on for, but he was doing it out of a sense of duty and desire to help. Well, no shock or surprise, now he is showing symptoms of the virus. He was tested and is waiting for the results. Would you believe that they told him to go back to work until he got his test results? He told them even if he didn't have Covid he wouldn't want to give whatever he had to other people. Sheesh, where's people's common sense these days?? Anyway, he's a cancer survivor from several years back, not sure that makes any difference now. I just hope and pray he gets over it OK.

Kyanight · April 25, 2020

2 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Thanks again for your prayers. It looks like I'm really going to need that vending machine. Now I need prayers for my nephew by marriage. He is 35 years old and works in a hospital as a physical therapy assistant in Orange County, NY. Since the Covid crisis he has been put on orderly duties at the hospital dealing with Covid patients, not something he really signed on for, but he was doing it out of a sense of duty and desire to help. Well, no shock or surprise, now he is showing symptoms of the virus. He was tested and is waiting for the results. Would you believe that they told him to go back to work until he got his test results? He told them even if he didn't have Covid he wouldn't want to give whatever he had to other people. Sheesh, where's people's common sense these days?? Anyway, he's a cancer survivor from several years back, not sure that makes any difference now. I just hope and pray he gets over it OK.

What's his first name? When I talk to God about you, I call you "Yeah No". God knows who I am talking about so no worries, but if you tell me his first name I won't have to say "And please watch over Yeah No's nephew!" 😉

On a side note: My son's co-worker ended up in the ICU with Covid - and when my SON was first sick his boss wanted him to work. Can you imagine? Going into a bunch of different people's houses all day long (and probably some elderly folks, as well!) as he does phone wiring and troubleshooting and internet crap and whatever else he does. I was shocked about that - but to have a freaking HOSPITAL want someone to work sick is horrible! Not everyone who goes to the hospital has Covid! There are still car accidents and gun accidents and ACCIDENT accidents and other illnesses.......

Gramto6 · April 25, 2020

8 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Thanks again for your prayers. It looks like I'm really going to need that vending machine. Now I need prayers for my nephew by marriage. He is 35 years old and works in a hospital as a physical therapy assistant in Orange County, NY. Since the Covid crisis he has been put on orderly duties at the hospital dealing with Covid patients, not something he really signed on for, but he was doing it out of a sense of duty and desire to help. Well, no shock or surprise, now he is showing symptoms of the virus. He was tested and is waiting for the results. Would you believe that they told him to go back to work until he got his test results? He told them even if he didn't have Covid he wouldn't want to give whatever he had to other people. Sheesh, where's people's common sense these days?? Anyway, he's a cancer survivor from several years back, not sure that makes any difference now. I just hope and pray he gets over it OK.

@Yeah No I will include your nephew in my prayers along with you and your hubby. Don't need his name, he's your nephew and God knows who he is. 🙏

Kyanight · April 25, 2020

4 minutes ago, Gramto6 said:

@Yeah No I will include your nephew in my prayers along with you and your hubby. Don't need his name, he's your nephew and God knows who he is. 🙏

Oh FINE Gram!! *I need his name. God told me to ask. He said that Yeah No has two nephews.

so there.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Kyanight

Gramto6 · April 25, 2020

5 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

Oh FINE Gram!! *I need his name. God told me to ask. He said that Yeah No has two nephews.

so there.

Love you Kyanite! I was just trying to maintain the privacy factor...but we all know God does know which nephew is in need. LOL

Yeah No · April 25, 2020

LOL, the two of you are cracking me up - Lord knows I need the chuckle right now!! 🤣

My nephew's name is Brian. When I say my prayers for all of you I think of your screen names but usually shorten them a bit to Kyan, Gram, Kohola, Absol, etc., etc., etc. 😉

Gramto6 · April 25, 2020

9 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

LOL, the two of you are cracking me up - Lord knows I need the chuckle right now!! 🤣

My nephew's name is Brian. When I say my prayers for all of you I think of your screen names but usually shorten them a bit to Kyan, Gram, Kohola, Absol, etc., etc., etc. 😉

It's making me smile too, I think we all need a bit of humor now. I love all you folks so much this thread keeps me sane in this nightmare of a time.

I literally had a nightmare this morning of some scraggly guy trying to break into my house because he needed some place to stay with his mom who had the Covid virus. He was in my face and trying to push past me. I was so scared it woke me up! My heart was racing and when I took my fasting blood sugar it was way up. These are really stressful times!

Edited April 25, 2020 by Gramto6
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