S04.E07: Accident Waiting To Happen

[radishcake]

Jason maps out logistics for the car-crash scene with a stunt coordinator after finally selecting a location to film it. Later, Jason is encouraged by a surprise visitor to the set as he and the crew hurry to finish shooting before sunrise.

[Paws]

Well for once I agree with Jason. That "crash" was more like a tap. I'd be pissed if I stayed up all night to shoot that. If I were one of the actors I wouldn't stay for the "it's a wrap" I'd just go to bed!

[OptimisticCynic]

Most amusing part of the episode was Len Amato "agreeing" with Ben about Jason's talent and how directors shouldn't be agreeable. The awkwardness of that conversation was so apparent.

[lidarose9]

Marc Joubert is such an unbelievable dick.

[mandigirl]

 

Well for once I agree with Jason. That "crash" was more like a tap. 

Yeah...  Also, it was weird how that 'parked car' just happened to be there in the first place in the middle of nowhere...

 

 

Marc Joubert is such an unbelievable dick.

Jason and Joubert got on my last nerve tonight. I hate how Joubert threw Effie under the bus with his whole 'That was the crash Effie said we had enough money for.' WTH Joubert? Aren't you a freaking producer too?

 

Jason continues with his 'artiste' entitlement. I know that editing can make anyone sound like an ass, but his UNEDITED comments are unreal. His victimhood mentality is straight-up weird. He alluded a number of times like Effie and/or the production team wanted to sabotage him.  Effie hasn't been as supportive as probably she should be or as she claims to be, but I haven't seen her try to sabotage him. 

 

Maybe next season, they should have director/producer pairs for the competition. It may be less 'entertaining' to watch, but it would be far more interesting to see a team work together on a project that both of them are passionate about. 

[TVSallyS]

Yeah, Marc framing that as "Jason was right! He is smart!" was soooo stupid and was clearly indicative of his underlying anger at Effie for chasing away Farrelly - he knows she is in conflict with Jason and is still kind of irked with her, so he paints this as "score one for brilliant Jason". Um, no. I didn't once hear people on the production team say "a big crash isn't important. We won't give you that because we think it doesn't matter." What I heard them say was "given our money, safety concerns, and time, here Jason is the biggest crash we can do". And I saw Effie scraping for every last time to give him the biggest she could do. I didn't hear anyone running around trying to sabotage Jason or idiotically claiming this crash didn't matter. They just said "here's what can happen." They can't pull more time or money out of their butts. It wasn't like they gave him this version of the crash because they DISAGREED with Jason that it really should be big, and if those idiots had only seen his perspective, they'd have set up an awesome multimillion dollar crash setup. No. They clearly had no options. You know who could have pulled more resources out of his butt? Jason. If he'd picked more days over film. So, Marc could have just as easily said "well, I guess Jason made the wrong choice. Audiences probably won't be able to see the film/digital difference, but this thing crucial to the plot point couldn't be done right. Effie saw this coming looking at the schedule and tried to warn him." Instead, his interpretation of those events was "that smartie was right." Ok. I mean, if it makes you "right" or "smart" to have no foresight, drain resources, and then whine and yell about how you don't have resources to do what you want. Sure, I guess that's one interpretation of these events.

[TVSallyS]

I just would like to see Jason suggest how these things should be done when he whines that the whole problem is production sabotaging the movie.

The irritating thing is that there was just enough confusion over whether it really could have been bigger if somebody had started doing something sooner.... He is again left with the impression this just wasn't about them being passionate enough to do all they could. I felt really irritated by that brief confusion during that conversation. I wanted to hear more - was this really true? Was it just Jason's crazy interpretation? It's driving me nuts that at every step of the way there has been just enough doubt as to whether they could have done something differently to allow him to continue in his crazy sabotage theory.

[biakbiak]

That stunt was be beyond pathetic; seriously, the Asian male and female director team that caused the Effie/Damon diversity argument did a more impressive stunt on their submission tape. They should have put the flip part of the stunt on the table when Jason was whining about film.

[Julia]

Good god, y'all! Marc Joubert, executive producer of Project Greenlight and hoary veteran of that other season of Project Greenlight, is totally right. If only the production company which negotiated with HBO over timing and budget had held out for more time and money, they would have had more available to them than Effie said they had. Whoever that asshole is has a lot to answer for. 

 

It's a shame they weren't on set to communicate those limits to Jason, neh?

 

ILU, location lady. And while I could have stood a little less blather about Jason's awesomeness (boy, is his face going to be red when The Leisure Class defies film and an asshole diva director and turns out not to be Citizen Kane), it was fairly sharp of Ben Affleck to realize that the way to get Jason to finish the film was to have a movie star present to blow sunshine up his ass.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Julia

[STOPSHOUTING]

Well for once I agree with Jason. That "crash" was more like a tap. I'd be pissed if I stayed up all night to shoot that. If I were one of the actors I wouldn't stay for the "it's a wrap" I'd just go to bed!

 

I think that's true, but I also think that's what happens on a micro budget shoot where you don't plan anything in advance, reject every compromise put in front of you from the people who know the score and are trying to make it work and piss off everyone who is working with you to the point they are just relieved to be done. 

 

Creepy Fingers was told, again and again, that this was a one-and-done take, no matter what happened ... And that's what happened. Maybe not ideal, but that's what happens when you only get one take at a stunt because you wasted all your money on film, and refused to do any of the money-saving ideas (green screen, etc.) that a movie of your budget SHOULD have rightly used.

 

What makes Jason Mann insufferable isn't that he's an entitled little asshole, because, frankly, Hollywood is full of those, it's that he's a STUPID, entitled little asshole. He prioritizes process over the end result, forgetting the Golden Rule that audiences don't give a crap about the behind the scenes stuff, they only care what they see on the screen. It's the story, stupid.

 

I've seen movies with a 1/3 of this budget that are awesome (e.g. Safety Not Guaranteed, which had, what, a $750k budget?) and THOSE are the directors that go on to work. You want someone to give you $100 mil someday, show them you know what matters on a little movie, which Project Greenlight gives you the ideal opportunity to do.

 

Mann has, almost without exception, done the opposite of that, again and again, focusing on process and arguing about worthless crap that will NOT be visible on the screen, while letting major plot points, script and the like, get lost in the shuffle. I will say that editing the show for drama aside, they gave Mann every tool, and when this movie blows, which I have not an iota of doubt it does, he has no one -- NO ONE! -- to blame but himself. Reality show or not, this was the opportunity of a lifetime, and he blew it ... with the world (or the 19 HBO subscribers, and some serious Hollywood heavyweights) watching.

 

Oh and, PS, I loved when Ben Affleck gently, but accurately, told Mann that when actors tell you, ' I thought I was already doing that,' that means your direction was freaking useless. While Mann, clueless and self-absorbed as always, seemed to take it as, 'Oscar-winner agrees with me.'

Edited October 26, 2015 by STOPSHOUTING

[radishcake]

What makes Jason Mann insufferable isn't that he's an entitled little asshole, because, frankly, Hollywood is full of those, it's that he's a STUPID, entitled little asshole. He prioritizes process over the end result, forgetting the Golden Rule that audiences don't give a crap about the behind the scenes stuff, they only care what they see on the screen. It's the story, stupid.

Yes exactly. Putting ALL other issues aside, Jason's inability to see the LITERAL big picture is what makes him so infuriating. He seems like one of those people who see things like Buffalo 66 (which I find execrable, self-indulgent, and ridiculous *IMHO*) and talks all about the process and the bravery of the performances. All the while not seeing the incoherent mess that resulted. It's SO frustrating. 

[Violet Penner]

Did the crash happen the way it was intended to happen by stunt coordinator person? Or did something go wrong to cause the little blip of an accident? Stunt coordinator guy said there's be a big crash, lots of property damage. I couldn't tell if it went as stunt coordinator planned or not.

[Maire]

It seemed to me that Ed Weeks wasn't thrilled about the whole experience. He wasn't rolling his eyes but he came pretty close.

The editor told Jason the first cut of the movie is one hour and 51 minutes. Doesn't that seem short? How is he going to cut it?

However it comes out the trailer looks pretty pitiful.

[radishcake]

Honestly I am also mad because I love Tom Bell & Ed Weeks and I bet (while totally stupid) this could have probably been a funny movie that I would have certainly watched because I'm not above a good dick joke. *disclaimer* I've never watched a Farrelly bros movie so my mileage might certainly vary. ;)

[PetuniaP]

I laughed so hard when the location lady said "I am so tired of that slim little man". Hilarious. I also felt bad for Ed Weeks when he was trying to connect with Jason by catching his eye right after the "crash" and Jason refused to make eye contact because he was so lost in his disappointment. Hope spending $300K on film instead of getting 2 extra shooting days was worth it!

Edited October 26, 2015 by PetuniaP

[Stinamaia]

I guess I've been slow in coming to the realization that Jason is a film snob. It dawned on me then he said after the crash stunt, "At least we got something real." So his priorities are some sort of film school blather amongst would be directors about film vs digital and real vs green screen, etc. Of course, this kind of mind set is going to prejudice him against the lowly bean counters. As I understand it, movie making is collaborative even when the director has access to most of what he wants. Running over budget and having ultimate control over the process, gets lots of directors in trouble.

I had a little smile when Afleck noted that green screen for stunts was the norm these days.

And also Jason, nothing in movies is "real" unless it's a documentary, and not even always then.

Jason is set to take credit for anything good in the project and blame others for shortcomings.

I'm reminded of a story about a director where the writer witnessed the director being presented with a decision between two similar chairs . The director immediately pointed to one of them. When asked how he could make such a quick decision, the director said that the most important thing was to make a quick decision to move things along. He knew the slight difference in the chairs was unimportant in the big picture. Now Jason, on the other hand, might well have rejected both chairs. :)

Edited October 26, 2015 by Stinamaia

[Primetimer]

Principal shooting ends, a little too neatly.

Read the story

[FastLou]

The editor told Jason the first cut of the movie is one hour and 51 minutes. Doesn't that seem short? How is he going to cut it?

However it comes out the trailer looks pretty pitiful.

A comedy like this would normally come in at 90 - 110 minutes, so starting at 110 is actually a little short for a first assembly. Although I imagine Jason will think every moment is gold, so he won't be open to the kind of trimming one would normally do in post.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Did the crash happen the way it was intended to happen by stunt coordinator person? Or did something go wrong to cause the little blip of an accident? Stunt coordinator guy said there's be a big crash, lots of property damage. I couldn't tell if it went as stunt coordinator planned or not.

Just my layman's opinion, but no, I think there was a little bit of a screw up there, and the car was moving too slowly to provide the kind of hit that was promised.

 

I think that's why Van tried to sell the hell out of "what a great job" it was. (I would really have liked more material on Van/Jason and Van/crew and Jason/crew, because it seems like there's an untold story there. I wonder if they just didn't get the footage to tell that story, so they went with the more predictable creative v. production angle). 

 

If they hadn't done the process trailer stuff, might they have been able to afford two or three attempts? I realize that would mean extra cars, which is $$, but that process trailer stuff looked insanely expensive. That's a lot of union crew work to set up and tear down. And for what?

[Quilt Fairy]

I can't recall the number of movie crashes I have "seen" where all you see is the actor's reaction in the car, but you hear a screech of brakes and a crash, and the next scene is after the crash either at the crash site or in the hospital. And I, not being a dope, get the idea that there was a car crash, and the movie goes on. But I guess that's not real enough for Jason.

[Latverian Diplomat]

I can't recall the number of movie crashes I have "seen" where all you see is the actor's reaction in the car, but you hear a screech of brakes and a crash, and the next scene is after the crash either at the crash site or in the hospital. And I, not being a dope, get the idea that there was a car crash, and the movie goes on. But I guess that's not real enough for Jason.

Defending Your Life has a great example of this, not quite a hospital Albert Brooks wakes up in, but the principle is the same. And it works very well.

 

And anyone who's even just had a near miss or very minor accident knows how scary it is. So another option is to just let the actors sell how freaked out they are. But Jason wanted a big visual.

 

Part of the problem here, I think(?) is that the accident has to be scary but none of the main characters actually gets injured (because they have more "hilarious" scenes after this one, I guess). It's hard to do that convincingly with real cars on a budget.

[radishcake]

On-set drama, beautiful actors getting made up, the struggle to make the day -- these things are sexier from a reality show POV, but focusing on those elements to the exclusion of post-production does a disservice to the stated intention of the show.

Nick, I think once they realized they had a textbook "love-hate" push pull from a reality show standpoint they ceased to care about showing how the movie itself was put together. From the disjointed time-skipping shots for "controversy" producer manipulations it's hard to see how any of that is part of showing us how the MOVIE got made vs. the SHOW getting made. 

[MamaMax]

I still call 100% bullshit on Mann's insistence that the car crash was about "telling the story" as opposed to just him wanting to do something cool and awesome. Come on, dude. If you're making a low-budget comedy of manners and everything hinges on a bad-ass car stunt, you're doing something wrong. You need to escalate the tension to a breaking point? There are a bajillion ways to do that that are neither fast nor furious. You wanted your Michael Bay moment; just admit it.

 

 

I don't know; I'm no Jason apologist…but I get what he meant. He wasn't saying it had to be a sexy, triple exploding, fly in the air, pass under and 18 wheeler, shave off the top of the car, fireball. He was saying it had to be convincing as a serious accident; one that would be believable as having changed a character's opinions/ideas/trajectory.  People don't have life changing minor fender-benders. They have life-changing near-miss, coulda-been-killed accidents.

[FastLou]

Just my layman's opinion, but no, I think there was a little bit of a screw up there, and the car was moving too slowly to provide the kind of hit that was promised.

 

I think that's why Van tried to sell the hell out of "what a great job" it was. (I would really have liked more material on Van/Jason and Van/crew and Jason/crew, because it seems like there's an untold story there. I wonder if they just didn't get the footage to tell that story, so they went with the more predictable creative v. production angle). 

 

If they hadn't done the process trailer stuff, might they have been able to afford two or three attempts? I realize that would mean extra cars, which is $$, but that process trailer stuff looked insanely expensive. That's a lot of union crew work to set up and tear down. And for what?

 

I agree the crash was underwhelming and probably not what the stunt people expected. I was quite surprised we did not see them running the stunt several time w/o the final crash. There were several cars involved and they didn't seem to do any test runs. That might have helped make the final hit better, and if they did skip it, it would likely be due to time constraints.

I obviously don't know the exact numbers but a day in a green screen studio would be MUCH cheaper than the process trailer. Almost certainly enough to buy a few junker cars. You'll notice the ones involved in the crash were very common and cheap.

 

I can't recall the number of movie crashes I have "seen" where all you see is the actor's reaction in the car, but you hear a screech of brakes and a crash, and the next scene is after the crash either at the crash site or in the hospital. And I, not being a dope, get the idea that there was a car crash, and the movie goes on. But I guess that's not real enough for Jason.

I would expect that when the editor is done what they got will look just fIne. It's all about the cuts and the sound and the reactions. If he got coverage. We don't know how many cameras he had (I maybe heard three in a previous episode) but we definitely didn't see them getting any close ups or alternate angles in the episode. Without those, there's nothing an editor can use to make it work.

It would be nice to actually show a good physical smash, but as you said, not necessary to get the point across. If they have enough footage.

[lidarose9]

I don't know; I'm no Jason apologist…but I get what he meant. He wasn't saying it had to be a sexy, triple exploding, fly in the air, pass under and 18 wheeler, shave off the top of the car, fireball. He was saying it had to be convincing as a serious accident; one that would be believable as having changed a character's opinions/ideas/trajectory.  People don't have life changing minor fender-benders. They have life-changing near-miss, coulda-been-killed accidents.

 

I understand he wanted his overused and cliche turning-point movie trope, but if it's so important, it would have been helpful if he'd budgeted for it and worked with the necessary people to find out what needed to happen, when, and with whom to get what he wanted. The easiest solution would have been to allow enough time and $ for more than one take. EVERYTHING he complains about is HIS FAULT. 

[FastLou]

And it's a real shame that we're only going to get one episode of post-production; that was probably the best part of Season 2, because the tension between directors and studio as to the tone of the finished product was very interesting, and it also shone a light on the fact that editing is at least 50% of making a movie, and often more. On-set drama, beautiful actors getting made up, the struggle to make the day -- these things are sexier from a reality show POV, but focusing on those elements to the exclusion of post-production does a disservice to the stated intention of the show.

Watching them totally change the tone in Shaker Heights during editing was indeed fascinating. Personally I'd watch a YouTube stream of them in the editing room eight hours a day for weeks, but I realize I am a freak. But I really do think there are about half as many episodes as could be entertaining for people less invested in the process than me. I'm sure there were a lot of other stories throughout beyond "Jason is uncompromising and Effie is difficult and frustrated."

[FastLou]

I understand he wanted his overused and cliche turning-point movie trope, but if it's so important, it would have been helpful if he'd budgeted for it and worked with the necessary people to find out what needed to happen, when, and with whom to get what he wanted. The easiest solution would have been to allow enough time and $ for more than one take. EVERYTHING he complains about is HIS FAULT.

It is ridiculous they didn't seem too be having serious conversations about the stunt until they were mid-shooting. By that point the budget is virtually set. Plus Jason is too busy with a million things to fully charged nice trade. That shit should have been hashed out earlier and it's Everyone's fault if that didn't happen. But mostly the producers. Marc should have forced that decision well before it actually happened in the show and maybe it would have turned out more impressively.

[Milburn Stone]

The two most dangerous words on a shoot are the words that came out of the stunt coordinator's mouth: "Trust me."

[biakbiak]

I understand he wanted his overused and cliche turning-point movie trope, but if it's so important, it would have been helpful if he'd budgeted for it and worked with the necessary people to find out what needed to happen, when, and with whom to get what he wanted. The easiest solution would have been to allow enough time and $ for more than one take. EVERYTHING he complains about is HIS FAULT.

Budgeting for it is Effies job as is hiring the crew to execute it.

[Irlandesa]

Just my layman's opinion, but no, I think there was a little bit of a screw up there, and the car was moving too slowly to provide the kind of hit that was promised.

I think the idea was that they wanted the car to swerve into the back of the stationary car and stop.  IIRC, what ended up happening is that the car hit the stationary car and kept moving. It was the unpredictability of two cars hitting.

 

If they hadn't done the process trailer stuff, might they have been able to afford two or three attempts? I realize that would mean extra cars, which is $$, but that process trailer stuff looked insanely expensive. That's a lot of union crew work to set up and tear down. And for what?

 

Weren't those the inserts that Effie didn't think they could have in the last episode?  But yes, they only had so much time and there were likely more cost effective ways of filming it. .

 

 

I don't know; I'm no Jason apologist…but I get what he meant. He wasn't saying it had to be a sexy, triple exploding, fly in the air, pass under and 18 wheeler, shave off the top of the car, fireball. He was saying it had to be convincing as a serious accident; one that would be believable as having changed a character's opinions/ideas/trajectory.  People don't have life changing minor fender-benders. They have life-changing near-miss, coulda-been-killed accidents.

He really really wanted cars flipping over initially.  I get that this was supposed to be a shattering crash but convincing an audience that it's going to change a character's mind is not done in the crash.  It is done in the aftermath.  Choosing to focus on the aftermath would also be so much cheaper.  Instead of showing the impact, they could have showed us lights in the driver's eyes, the airbag popping, a messed up car looked at by a dazed actor. 

 

But I think, even with what they have, there is so much that can be done in post-production.

[lidarose9]

Budgeting for it is Effies job as is hiring the crew to execute it.

 

Right. So she just shows up each morning with a daily surprise for him that she pulls out of thin air. Seriously. Does a line producer get the final script and then set up the budget, create the schedule, and hire the crew without consulting the director? So Jason never had a chance to dispute her unilateral decisions until the day of shooting? So Effie deliberately excluded Jason from decisions about budget and schedule in order to mess up his big chance at fame and fortune? I think it is much more likely that Jason "did not have time" during pre-production to sit through a few meetings that would have been good to attend. 

[biakbiak]

Right. So she just shows up each morning with a daily surprise for him that she pulls out of thin air. Seriously. Does a line producer get the final script and then set up the budget, create the schedule, and hire the crew without consulting the director? So Jason never had a chance to dispute her unilateral decisions until the day of shooting? So Effie deliberately excluded Jason from decisions about budget and schedule in order to mess up his big chance at fame and fortune? I think it is much more likely that Jason "did not have time" during pre-production to sit through a few meetings that would have been good to attend.

The line producer does get the script and works up the budget based on it and does in fact hire a lot of crew without director having much or any input on even a lot of typical movies. I wouldn't expect Jason to know the actual costs of things. I don't think Effie was conspiring against him or did it intentionally but clearly not enough money was budgeted for a decent stunt and hell she even mentioned that she was taking money from other areas to pay for this very basic stunt. Edited October 27, 2015 by biakbiak

[ApathyMonger]

I haven't watched it yet, but here's this week's deleted scene:

 

 

It's about shooting a pool scene they really needed more time to film.

Edited October 27, 2015 by ApathyMonger

[Julia]

So, wow. Jason really did think that was funny. Also, way to keep your powder dry, Van.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Julia

[jenrising]

Yet another, "Gee, I bet those two extra days of shooting would have come in handy, huh," scene. 

 

Also, I really want to see an interview with Jason's parents to see what kind of people spawned and support this petulant man-child and clearly never taught him that things exist outside of his own desires. Something most toddlers learn.

[Milburn Stone]

But I think, even with what they have, there is so much that can be done in post-production.

 

 

I agree. Sound effects of multiple skidding and crashing, a bit of speed-up in the image (just shy of being so much that you can tell it's artificial), a sudden increase in the pace of cutting, perhaps the addition of a couple of insert shots they can grab now at not terrific expense, and everything's going to be all right. It's called problem-solving. Can be the most creative and interesting part of a production!

 

Nevertheless, now that we're one episode from the end, I wonder if we can agree that two things are true. 1) Jason has made serious mistakes, which hopefully he will learn from if he has a career. 2) He has been let down by the production staff and crew, who have the experience Jason lacks and should have found a way to guide this novice (obstinate as he could be, and resistant to guidance as he was) better than they did.

[pasdetrois]

The reality-TV-hatchet-editing was very evident, especially in voiceovers. I could hear the shifts in tone and sound quality in some of them.

 

Jason and Effie cannot be blamed for the lack of control they have over the gazillions of other people on the production. All those individual activities, and the technology and people doing them, drive the results of the final product. I saw tiny snippets of this - the safety arguments a couple episodes back, the complex insert car rigging, the unpredictable and unsatisfying "car crash." The show would have us believe that the conflict between Jason and Effie was the key factor in the results, and I don't believe that.

 

$3M to make a feature film is a drop in the bucket. Awesome movies for so little money are the exception, not the rule. A lot of the drama and chaos were inherent because of a ridiculous budget and time constraints; that environment makes everyone stressed and crazy. I don't know why Hollywood bothers with these kinds of efforts.

Edited October 27, 2015 by pasdetrois

[radishcake]

I haven't watched it yet, but here's this week's deleted scene:

 

 

It's about shooting a pool scene they really needed more time to film.

 

So she's trying to get them out so that the location can be available for reshoots and if they don't get out they have NO ACCESS TO THE LOCATION EVER AGAIN. How the fuck is that backing you into a corner?? How is that not, I'm trying like hell to cover your ass so we CAN get in here again??? And she's fucking contentious because you are that fucking guy who fucking talks over me and, I swear to god, INTENTIONALLY does not hear what I am saying.-> whoops. taking it personally over here. 

 

But seriously, I work in an industry where I have credentials for my (very specific) job and over 20 years of experience but I still get talked over while some 20 year old dingus (sorry other awesome 20 year olds) says he doesn't think we need to listen to me and when it all goes TITS FUCKING UP they are all, Radish?? What happened? Can you please fix it now because you are SOO GOOD at that. Yeah I'm good at it because you NEVER LISTEN on the front end. 

 

Sorry... I'm going to have some coffee. :D

[Julia]

I agree. Sound effects of multiple skidding and crashing, a bit of speed-up in the image (just shy of being so much that you can tell it's artificial), a sudden increase in the pace of cutting, perhaps the addition of a couple of insert shots they can grab now at not terrific expense, and everything's going to be all right. It's called problem-solving. Can be the most creative and interesting part of a production!

 

Nevertheless, now that we're one episode from the end, I wonder if we can agree that two things are true. 1) Jason has made serious mistakes, which hopefully he will learn from if he has a career. 2) He has been let down by the production staff and crew, who have the experience Jason lacks and should have found a way to guide this novice (obstinate as he could be, and resistant to guidance as he was) better than they did.

 

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, Jason had the influence, if not the involvement, of the 800-lb gorillas in the situation, and the active collusion of Joubert, who got better TV out of Jason having his head than he would have out of presiding over a sane shoot. I think there's a limited amount the crew could have done when they were pushed into a corner repeatedly by Jason and his enablers, who not only white knighted him but convinced him that his behavior was not just appropriate but admirable.

 

And it's interesting, but most of the publications which started out covering this season appear to have stopped. Which makes me wonder if there isn't some form of Don't Feed the Troll going on.

ETA:

and when it all goes TITS FUCKING UP they are all, Radish?? What happened? Can you please fix it now because you are SOO GOOD at that. Yeah I'm good at it because you NEVER LISTEN on the front end.

Preach. But then, mother always said, if they knew what they were doing we'd all be out of work.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Julia

[STOPSHOUTING]

$300K to make a feature film is a drop in the bucket. Awesome movies for so little money are the exception, not the rule. A lot of the drama and chaos were inherent because of a ridiculous budget and time constraints; that environment makes everyone stressed and crazy. I don't know why Hollywood bothers with these kinds of efforts.

 

The budget was, I believe, $3 million dollars ... It was $300,000 for film, a significant and unworkable chunk of the overall budget, until they got HBO to give them some additional funds.

[pasdetrois]

Thank you STOPSHOUTING. My fingers and brain aren't caffeinated yet this morning.

[Milburn Stone]

Preach. But then, mother always said, if they knew what they were doing we'd all be out of work.

 

I love this glass-half-full way of looking at things! And it isn't just lip service designed to make competent people feel better. I actually did/do feel a sense of gratification (OK, smug superiority) in having the skllls/talent to fix other people's fuckups. (Does that make me a bad person?)

 

Re the deleted scene: It's a shame it was deleted, because it's the only scene that shows Effie's tough love actually being driven by the needs of the film and not an undercurrent of power-trip and/or passive-aggressive schadenfreude. We'd have a different view of Effie if this scene and others like it had made the final cut.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[calliope1975]

So she's trying to get them out so that the location can be available for reshoots and if they don't get out they have NO ACCESS TO THE LOCATION EVER AGAIN. How the fuck is that backing you into a corner?? How is that not, I'm trying like hell to cover your ass so we CAN get in here again??? And she's fucking contentious because you are that fucking guy who fucking talks over me and, I swear to god, INTENTIONALLY does not hear what I am saying.-> whoops. taking it personally over here. 

 

 

Does Jason not understand how the concept of time works? What part of hard out at 9:00 pm is so complicated? Because you know, if they had stayed until 10, and lost the right to use that location again, and reshoots were needed, somehow that would have been Effie's fault as well.

 

It's really disappointing that HBO has decided to go with the Effie versus Jason narrative, because there were so many more things wrong happening during this entire shoot. Possibly some really fun and educational experiences as well, but we'll never see that.

[radishcake]

Wow I just read my comment again and that's a lot of cursing, so we're all adults but sorry! You can really tell I'd had a frustrating conference call and no coffee!! <3

 

Possibly some really fun and educational experiences as well, but we'll never see that.

I SO wish this would happen. Like Nick said so much of what we see here is a drop in the collective bucket of movie making. 

I love this glass-half-full way of looking at things! And it isn't just lip service designed to make competent people feel better. I actually did/do feel a sense of gratification (OK, smug superiority) in having the skllls/talent to fix other people's fuckups. (Does that make me a bad person?)

NO!! :D

[eelpout]

That stunt was be beyond pathetic; seriously...

 

my take away from this is that "Burn Notices" weekly TV budget for car stunts must have been astronomical (in proportion), but it was filmed in Miami so maybe that partially explains it.

Edited October 27, 2015 by eelpout

[Quilt Fairy]

At the moment, this is the only show I watch on HBO (which means I really need to consider dropping it) so I don't know if they're doing much on-air promotion for the movie, but I see they premiering it on a Monday night. That doesn't speak of confidence to me.

[eelpout]

At the moment, this is the only show I watch on HBO (which means I really need to consider dropping it) so I don't know if they're doing much on-air promotion for the movie, but I see they premiering it on a Monday night. That doesn't speak of confidence to me.

 

it's airing on the day immediately following the season ending episode of Project Greenlight, so... works for me.

[film noire]

2) He has been let down by the production staff and crew, who have the experience Jason lacks and should have found a way to guide this novice (obstinate as he could be, and resistant to guidance as he was) better than they did.

 

I don't agree with that at all. Jason hasn't worked a single day on this set; he's been playing in a sandbox the whole time. When the only word you're willing to hear is "Yes", that's a fantasy, not a workplace.

 

And nothing and nobody could get him to behave like an professional (instead of a spoiled little dilettante) regardless of what was said or done. He wasn't ready for this opportunity; everything else aside, he just didn't have the creative vision to use limitation as a spur to create a better idea, scene, or shot. He was a (pouting, smirking) veal calf let loose on a professional set,  who -- knowing nothing -- still refused to *learn*. (The car location rehash alone proves his unwillingness to learn -- and his bitter, ungracious bullshit -- to look past that woman as if she were nothing? The sense of entitlement goes bone deep with him -- not production.)

Edited October 28, 2015 by film noire

[mandigirl]

 

Nevertheless, now that we're one episode from the end, I wonder if we can agree that two things are true. 1) Jason has made serious mistakes, which hopefully he will learn from if he has a career. 2) He has been let down by the production staff and crew, who have the experience Jason lacks and should have found a way to guide this novice (obstinate as he could be, and resistant to guidance as he was) better than they did.

With 'entitlement' being the word of the day, I guess I have to ask, is Jason entitled to this as a director? I don't know much about the movie-making industry, but wasn't Jason supposed to inspire and cultivate an environment where people WANTED to help him? You can't burn bridges and then wonder why people aren't walking over the ashes. He had a very experienced production staff, and as far as I could tell, he spent much of the production time ignoring their advice and/or blaming them for problems they told him would occur if he didn't follow their advice. I agree they probably could have helped him more, but I see no reason why they should have.

[MasalaCurry]

That video says it all. I see how frustrated Effie is with Jason, understandably so. She has been trying to stay within the defined limits while Jason keeps pushing boundaries. Jason has no idea how to execute his vision. He really doesn't. He also doesn't have a way of communicating. But Effie focuses on doing things within boundaries and doing them well. I like her approach, and while I find her to be too stubborn to budge when certain things were negotiable (eg. budget), overall she has done her best to give Jason what he wants. He made bad choices that prevented him from getting the most important things. He should have laid out all his priorities from the very beginning instead of fighting every battle. It is interesting how this episode Effie worded that she hoped Jason learned from his mistakes. She accepted that Jason is new to this and that the best he can do with this experience is learn from his choices. I think Effie could have done a better job communicating but Jason has just not cooperated from the very beginning. I can't believe he blamed this entire thing on her. Regarding the car accident, I really don't know who is at fault - Jason for not realizing that time was more important than shooting on film, or Effie for not being able to execute his vision and communicate with the stunt man. But if Jason were a very good Director, he could have created the scene without needing the accident to actually happen, he just is not that good. So far I have seen nothing of the film that interests me other than Ed Weeks. Disappointing because I was hoping to see more filming this season instead of the Effie-Jason dynamic.