Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Morrigan2575, my main reaction to these two interviews is that people should not bring up Apocalypse Now in conjunction with this show :)  Also that the individual streaming numbers for the Suicide Squad episode must have been lower than I thought.

Well these are the same people that compared Suicide Squad to The Avengers. ..so you know, delusions of grandeur. ..

[JayKay]

In fact, I'm so into Lotz's BC, I hope she'll be able to parlay that role into a Birds of Prey spin off where she can kick ass on her own show. 

I hope so too. I'm actually considering checking out the show Death Valley just because I read she was on it and I'm already having SaraCanary withdrawals just thinking about her potentially hanging up her wig. A BoP show with some of the Arrow ladies and maybe a few new ones would be ideal, but unless that news comes down the pipline I'm just going to have to cherish however much time there is left of CL as BC.

[pootlus]

I'm still pinning my hopes on a BoP announcement at SDCC.  Then if Laurel really does take over Arrow (or is in enough of the show that it becomes unwatchable, which is what it is for me whenever she's on screen) I can decamp to Flash and BoP.

 

Have to say whenever I start thinking "Hey, maybe I'll check out this season after all" the EPs do another interview and I'm all "NOPE NOPE NOPE".

[stormborn]

I don't know if this should be in the Laurel thread so someone please let me know so I can move it over but I just wanted to touch on the Laurel spoilers/speculation briefly because I think a lot interesting points have been made about her, the show's take on her and the audience's reaction to her. 

 

Now I don't necessarily hate Laurel, I'd like for the show to find a comfortable place for her to exist within that doesn't feel contrived but they haven't been able to do that as yet and it'd be one thing if we were still in season one but we're going into the show's syndicate year. They should have a better handle on what works and what doesn't. Katie's strengths as an actress lie mostly in her ability to play antagonistic characters and I feel like that's the road they should've gone with her since last season. 

 

But I believe that the show is operating under the misguided belief that they can make us feel the same way about Laurel that we do about Sara and Felicity by hyping her character up constantly. Because if we're being honest, Felicity for all intents and purposes is the show's de facto leading lady. Now while her overall character development leaves a lot to be desired (i.e. her not having a life outside of TA's and Oliver's orbit etc.) she is who the audience has all but chosen as their leading lady. But she was never meant to be. Laurel was meant to be and in all fairness to EBR and the character of Felicity, the issues the audience have had with Laurel existed long before the show decided to expand Felicity's role. I remember very early on in the first season not connecting to Laurel in the way that I should have been, not to mention being utterly uninspired by the distinct lack of chemistry between SA and KC.

 

And then with Sara, she's who most of the audience openly prefers as BC. 

 

And even though I detest comparing and contrasting female characters, there is no way to get around it when it comes to Felicity and Laurel or Sara and Laurel. The overwhelmingly positive response given to both Felicity and Sara is what should have happened with Laurel since season one but didn't and the show still hasn't given up the ghost that it will never exist on the same level. 

 

Now I know the show can't very well just drop Laurel/KC because of contractual obligations and such but they need to stop telling me how awesome she is and start showing me. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by stormborn

[Sakura12]

I hope so too. I'm actually considering checking out the show Death Valley just because I read she was on it and I'm already having SaraCanary withdrawals just thinking about her potentially hanging up her wig. A BoP show with some of the Arrow ladies and maybe a few new ones would be ideal, but unless that news comes down the pipline I'm just going to have to cherish however much time there is left of CL as BC.

 

Death Valley is a completely different show it's a comedy with some gore and sex humor. (It's an MTV show, so don't expect too much). CL's character is nothing like Sara, except for being able to kick ass (she did most of her stunts in that show too) she's a happy person always smiling. I checked that show out when I heard she was cast as Black Canary to see if I'd like her in the role. I liked Kirsten so that may have helped me like Sara from the beginning as well. 

 

The more and more interviews the read the less and less thrilled I am about this show. I really hope that Felicity and Diggle are not insta-friends with Laurel or say anything about how amazing or great she is. Because what that really means for me is Laurel being around them gives her more even more screen time. Just because Laurel's not in the lair all the time doesn't mean she's not going to be everywhere all the time.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

Roy Harper looks all kinds of badass as Arsenal.  Oliver needs a better costume.

 

oops. I see it was already posted. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by catrox14

[writersblock51]

All these interviews and photos coming out...

 

Things that look good to me:

- Oliver and Felicity openly dealing with their feelings. things not being smooth sailing (I still want these 2 to be end game, in as much a superhero TV show has one)

- Thea sorting out her own demons, under the guidance of her demon dad - I think Willa will be up to this

- Roy figuring out how he fits in and what his own destiny is - because CH is so nice & enthusiastic, I feel compelled to give Roy a shot

- Sara, Nyssa and LoA stuff

- Roy's outfit - and now Oliver's needs an upgrade

- Quentin being alive and a full on ally of the Arrow

 

Things that could be good but I'm not confident:

- Ray Palmer's integration into Oliver and Felicity's lives

- the new Vertigo

- Sara's return - I'm very very worried about her

- Malcolm and how much he may screw Oliver; if his focus remains on Thea, then i think it will be better

- Katana & her husband

- Deadshot returning

- Felicity backstories that help flesh out her present day character

 

Things that are absolutely unappealing:

- baby story lines (though the baby is adorable)

- Waller

- continued Miraku

- Oliver and Felicity not staying together (this could negatively affect the Team dynamics)

- negative team dynamics

 

Things that are deal breakers for me:

- Laurel being BC this season or next or ever... Like others have presented far more eloquently than I ever could, she lacks the skills, the heart, the experience and the motivation to be BC

- Laurel being a part of Team arrow (I think she brings nothing to them that they can't get from someone else)

- Sara dying to pave the way for Laurel to become BC

 

So it looks like I won't be watching the show after all, which I was prepared to do after the finale.  The lack of Laurel/KC news, the explosion of exciting casting news and storylines, and the overall positive buzz for the show heading into SDCC really lulled me into thinking that Laurel as BC was a thing of the past.

 

The way I see it, the more Laurel on the screen, the less I watch.  At some point, she's going to suck the joy and entertainent out of every scene she's in that there won't be much left to watch.

[quarks]

@Morrigan2575 , it's more that I've been hearing since last fall ongoing scuttlebutt about YAY SPINOFFS - Birds of Prey, Suicide Squad, Young Justice - thus the decision to have soft entries for all three shows, plus hints of "PLUS MORE!"  To the point of ensuring that all of them showed up for the finale (well, not Helena.) And now in July, this "well, we don't have the right story for Suicide Squad yet" - while also pushing Ray forward as Arsenal and hiring another Bird of Prey.

 

I hate to be cynical about this show or anything like that, but I would guess that the post viewing numbers are suggesting that viewers aren't streaming or purchasing the Suicide Squad episode as much as the writers thought they would. Granted, in my personal opinion that has a lot more to do with flaws in that particular episode than the viability of a Suicide Squad spinoff, but that's definitely just my opinion. 

[Velocity23]

I think they already starting to use Felicity to prop up Laurel. According to Guggenheim there is a great scene between F/L in 3rd episode. That has me thinking that Laurel will ask Felicity to bring her coffee and that we be the great callback to season 2. 

[apinknightmare]

I think they already starting to use Felicity to prop up Laurel. According to Guggenheim there is a great scene between F/L in 3rd episode. That has me thinking that Laurel will ask Felicity to bring her coffee and that we be the great callback to season 2.

I think the coffee callback will be between Felicity and Ray (since I'm cynical and I do think she'll be working for him). There's absolutely no reason for Laurel to ever ask Felicity to bring her coffee (and I think the people who write this show are stupid when it comes to writing Laurel, but not THAT stupid).

[Morrigan2575]

I think they already starting to use Felicity to prop up Laurel. According to Guggenheim there is a great scene between F/L in 3rd episode. That has me thinking that Laurel will ask Felicity to bring her coffee and that we be the great callback to season 2.

 

How would that result in Felicity propping Laurel? 

[tv echo]

Maybe they have Laurel bringing a cup of coffee to Felicity while both are in the Arrowcave and Felicity is working at the computer - part of their 'bonding' moment.

 

Catching up on the latest spoilers, at least I'm happy we'll get another Diggle-centric episode. 

THE ‘NEW’ TEAM MEMBER | Guggenheim says it’s “a fun thing” to now have Laurel in on Oliver’s secret, allowing the writers to thus bring her into the Arrowcave as needed. “There’s a great scene between her and Felicity in Episode 3 that we never could do in the last two seasons. And she now can interact with Diggle in a separate way,” he observes. “It’s fun to see these colors mixing together that you’ve never seen before.”

I agree with those who think this is the season they'll prop up Laurel by making her (or trying to make her) more likeable and by slowly phasing out Sara, all toward taking giant steps towards Laurel becoming the Black Canary.  We've already got the new Laurel love interest spoiler and KC pumping iron tidbits and the Laurel & Oliver working hand-in-hand to catch & convict bad guys spoiler.  Now we've got Laurel interacting with Felicity and Diggle - two of the most popular characters on the show.  

 

How did Oliver become more likeable in Seasons 1 and 2?  Through his interactions with Felicity and Diggle - who became his friends, lightened him up and thought he was a hero.  How will Laurel become more likeable?  Through her interactions with Felicity and Diggle - who will become her friends, lighten her up and probably be saved by her at some point during the season.  We'll see a Laurel who's supportive and more lighthearted.  She'll probably be given some funny quotable quips to say.  She'll be less angsty and hostile.  She'll be 'fun' and Felicity's new 'BFF'.  She'll have some hero moments.  She'll stay platonic friends with Oliver (at least for now).  By the end of Season 3, fans will be going "oh we like this new Laurel".  

 

At least, that's probably what the EPs hope.  Personally, I think it may be too late for this character and I'm also not sure KC has the acting chops to pull it off in a convincing manner.

Edited July 24, 2014 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

It depends on how EBR and KC act towards each other on the show. It doesn't seem that they're friends in real life and this might possibly bleed into the screen :/ If Felicity can't make Laurel likable then there's no hope for Laurel. 

 

That being said. Why the hell does a character like Laurel need someone propping her up? She's supposed to be likable in the first place and be the one who props Oliver up. Some leading lady she is *rolls eyes*. Laurel should get her own friends to deal with her. Felicity and Digg already have their hands full. Just sayin'

[Velocity23]

I am just waiting for Laurel to start giving Felicity relationship advice regarding Oliver or Ray. 

[catrox14]

Welp. Just as I feared and loathed. What the hell was the point of Oliver saying "It started with the three of us and that's what we need to get back to" when they are actually adding ANOTHER person to the Arrowcave, even if only part time.?

[poetgirl925]

She can still be a normal girl with a normal upbringing - and a normal, albeit somewhat kooky mother - and still have a mysterious unknown father.

I think it makes sense to lead with this as well, so I'm interested in meeting her mother and finding out what led her to MIT and later to QC. What role did her mom play? Did she ever encourage her? How contentious was their relationship? She was building computers at age 7 but how did she have access? Mom? A neighbor? A teacher? Why take up hacking as a hobby? Was she a bit of a hacktivist rebel at some point? These are the things I expect to come out in the first Felicity background episode. They might touch on the mysterious father but I expect them to save that for later. I also kind of like the idea of her father being a bit of an antagonist. He doesn't have to be evil or tied up in Oliver's past, but it would be interesting to see Felicity deal with that situation. She was obviously deeply hurt by his absence and she's fiercely loyal to the people who matter to her. Did she ever look for him? Does she know who/where he is? How would she handle meeting him again especially if it were related to Arrow business in some way?

As for Oliver I think it's very, very important to show him being more likeable in the present if we're about to see him moving towards S1 Oliver in the past. He needs to be as loyal to his team as they are to him. That also means he can't be a total hypocrite. He can't be sister swapping or generally sleeping around if he actually does have strong feelings for Felicity. They also can't show him hurting Felicity the way he's hurt other women, so if they want to go slowly and explore the possibility throughout the whole season, I'm okay with that. What I definitely don't want to see is him blowing that up at some point because he's caught up in Laurel drama again. It seems very much like they've decided to drop Laurel/Oliver as a couple and stick with her BC destiny, but they could drag it up again I'm sure. I'd rather they not involve Felicity at all if that's their plan for later. I like the idea of (future) Oliver and Felicity, but it really depends on the writing and if Oliver messes it up, it'll be hard to see him as a hero.

[wingster55]

I like the idea of (future) Oliver and Felicity, but it really depends on the writing and if Oliver messes it up, it'll be hard to see him as a hero.

 

If he messes up a relationship with Felicity you mean? 

I think he's a hero regardless of what he does with or to Felicity. 

[Password]

The spoilers are laying the date on thick what with Felicity being all "a date? A date date?" And Oliver being the one stumbling over his words. I hope it's worth it because otherwise what's the point.

If he messes up a relationship with Felicity you mean?

I think he's a hero regardless of what he does with or to Felicity.

I think to Felicity. She's a beloved character (mostly) so if he decides to mess things up with her he'd be placed into the niche "douchebag" group. No one likes a douche hero. So our perception of him would be muddied. Edited July 24, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[HighwayFlower]

They will force a friendship between Felicity and Laurel in a stupid attempt to make the Felicity fans like her.

If they do force Laurel into the BC role, and make a BOP spinoff, would we have Sara as BC in BOP and Laurel as BC in Arrow? That seems weird..

[tv echo]

I didn't see this link posted before but if I missed it, I apologize...

 

http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/07/the-flash-spoilers-grant-gustin-talks-a-different-barry-felicity/

TVF: I know Felicity will be in episode four. Can you say anything to how she’ll be involved? Are we going to touch on the romantic side of it?

GG: It will touch on the romantic side but just like Oliver can’t really be available right now to her, I can’t really either and for other reasons. Unlike Oliver, I am in love with somebody else. Now I think it’s even more apparent to me because Iris is with Eddie. Seeing her with him makes me realize I don’t just have feelings of friendship. I have much deeper feelings. (italics added)

Assuming Grant Gustin knows what he's talking about, I think this is a positive comment on Oliver's feelings for Felicity.  He's saying that both Barry and Oliver can't be available romantically to Felicity right now, but for different reasons.  Barry is in love with someone else (Iris), so he can't love Felicity.  But Oliver is not in love with someone else, so he can love Felicity - he just doesn't feel like he can be with her because he has to be the Arrow.

Edited July 24, 2014 by tv echo

[poetgirl925]

If he messes up a relationship with Felicity you mean? 

I think he's a hero regardless of what he does with or to Felicity.

It's probably different for each viewer but for me there's a difference between being a hero to the city and being a hero in all aspects of his life. I'm rooting for Oliver to grow up and work on his issues and be a hero as Arrow and as Oliver. I quit watching after Birds of Prey because Oliver in his personal life was a hypocrite and generally unlikeable at that point. I haven't liked Laurel since the second episode of S1, but she came out of Time of Death looking better than Oliver IMO. He's still not my favorite character on the show. Some people may like unlikeable protagonists but I usually have a point where I stop caring about them as a person. When I hit that point it won't matter if he's saving the city or not. So yes, for me it matters how he treats ALL the people in his life, romantic or not. I really disliked him after he betrayed Tommy's trust. I disliked him for coming between sisters this season. I disliked his hypocrisy with Moira and Thea. If he adds Felicity to the pile of women he's screwed over, I'll dislike him for it. Diggle and Felicity have done a lot to prop Oliver's likability in situations where he's toeing that line, so I think this matters to some viewers. They either need to approach the personal relationship with Felicity seriously and with care, or I prefer they don't do it at all. JMO.

[apinknightmare]

Welp. Just as I feared and loathed. What the hell was the point of Oliver saying "It started with the three of us and that's what we need to get back to" when they are actually adding ANOTHER person to the Arrowcave, even if only part time.?

 

I think it was (as it seems many things are with Oliver) just a line.

[wingster55]

It was never going to be just the three of them again regardless of Laurel.

No one likes a douche hero.

 

That's what GA has been for so long though...and Batman is the same, so I don't think that's true necessarily.

[Sakura12]

They seemed to have gained a forth full time team member in Roy/Arsenal, so it's not just the three of them anyway. Roy will probably cause some minor problems at first but because he's not a woman and a threat to the Ship, it won't be much of a problem. 

[Velocity23]

Maybe it works in comics, but Oliver on Arrow is quite different from the comics. And i don't think comic Oliver would work very well on TV and how he treats women close to him will affect how he is seen by the public. 

[catrox14]

 

Welp. Just as I feared and loathed. What the hell was the point of Oliver saying "It started with the three of us and that's what we need to get back to" when they are actually adding ANOTHER person to the Arrowcave, even if only part time.?

 

I

think it was (as it seems many things are with Oliver) just a line

 

.

 

I really disagree that this was just some line out of Oliver that he never meant nor intended to mean. This isn't douchey pre-island!Oliver.  This is the  Arrow, the hero, saying it.  He was pissed off that Laurel was there at all and he was pissed off that she  knew his secret. And even if at one time he wanted to tell her, that time had long passed. And now it's someone he doesn't get along with at all really who knows his secret, and it's another person's safety and another person to potentially be used again him.   I thought it was a pretty clear message to Laurel that she was not welcome to play with the grownups.

 

What would make Oliver completely change his mind about her being in the Arrowcave? I'm going with Laurel pushing her way into the Arrowcave by hook or crook because I can't see Oliver saying yes Laurel, please come be in the Arrowcave, just because. 

 

It was never going to be just the three of them again regardless of Laurel.

Roy's status as a member of Team Arrow was unclear because he left to find Thea and told Thea that he had one thing left to do. Thea opted out of the relationship with Roy.  Roy's status is not the same as the core three of Team Arrow.  Regardless of Roy's part time status, I thought the line was meant to make it clear to Laurel that she was not welcome to be on the team and rightfully so.

Edited July 24, 2014 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

I really disagree that this was just some line out of Oliver that he never meant nor intended to mean. This isn't douchey pre-island!Oliver.  This is the  Arrow, the hero, saying it.  He was pissed off that Laurel was there at all and he was pissed off that she  knew his secret. And even if at one time he wanted to tell her, that time had long passed. And now it's someone he doesn't get along with at all really who knows his secret, and it's another person's safety and another person to potentially be used again him.   I thought it was a pretty clear message to Laurel that she was not welcome to play with the grownups.

 

What would make Oliver completely change his mind about her being in the Arrowcave? I'm going with Laurel pushing her way into the Arrowcave by hook or crook because I can't see Oliver saying yes Laurel, please come be in the Arrowcave, just because.

 

Yeah, but it was a line. Because Sara was a member of the team (which makes four) and would undoubtedly be welcomed back if she returned to Starling. Roy's obviously a member of the team now as Arsenal (which makes five), given that he's suited up and everything. It was never going to be just the three of them regardless of whether Laurel was there or not. It was a thing he said in the heat of the moment to get her to stay where she was because he wanted her to be safe and out of the way. I don't think he was pissed that she learned his secret - I think he was relieved. As much as we don't like Laurel? Oliver still cares about her and is going to continue to care about her (in a hopefully completely platonic non-sister swappy way).

Edited July 24, 2014 by apinknightmare

[icandigit]

The worst moment in arrow for me was Laurel in the arrow cave.Oliver was really showing my own feelings in that moment. I know he cares about Laurel but he didn't want her in the clubhouse with him and his friends.

 

Now I'm kinda curious as to how it plays out. If it works then I'll have to applaud all in involved. If it doesn't work it will be the most awesomely bad, cringe worthy thing. Which I still want to see.  They could write it one way but how it plays on screen could be different. Which could be hilarious.

 

Oliver is my favorite on the show. He's hypocritical, makes dumb ass decisions sometimes and is very self- involved. I think my expectations of how quickly he should come around are different from some viewers. From irresponsible playboy to damaged jerk to settled human being for me seems like a huge feat. Bigger than chasing bad guys at night.

[catrox14]

Yeah, but it was a line. Because Sara was a member of the team (which makes four) and would undoubtedly be welcomed back if she returned to Starling. Roy's obviously a member of the team now as Arsenal (which makes five), given that he's suited up and everything. It was never going to be just the three of them regardless of whether Laurel was there or not. It was a thing he said in the heat of the moment to get her to stay where she was because he wanted her to be safe and out of the way. I don't think he was pissed that she learned his secret - I think he was relieved. As much as we don't like Laurel? Oliver still cares about her and is going to continue to care about her (in a hopefully completely platonic non-sister swappy way).

 

I made an edit to my comment that addresses Roy's status.

 

It wasn't solely about her safety though. He could have just locked her in the Arrowcave without saying the line at all. IMO, it was also a clear message of  "This is not your world and you need to keep out of it" .

[Sakura12]

Yeah, but it was a line. Because Sara was a member of the team (which makes four) and would undoubtedly be welcomed back if she returned to Starling. Roy's obviously a member of the team now as Arsenal (which makes five), given that he's suited up and everything. It was never going to be just the three of them regardless of whether Laurel was there or not. It was a thing he said in the heat of the moment to get her to stay where she was because he wanted her to be safe and out of the way. I don't think he was pissed that she learned his secret - I think he was relieved. As much as we don't like Laurel? Oliver still cares about her and is going to continue to care about her (in a hopefully completely platonic non-sister swappy way).

 

Yep, as much as we don't like Laurel, Oliver still cares about her and the writers obviously want her to be part of the team whether she's needed or not. I've come to terms that she's here to stay, be an even bigger part of Team Arrow and eventually shove Sara off a cliff so she can be the BC. 

[wingster55]

Additionally...I felt the line was bs from the start mostly because it wasn't the three of them from the start. It was just him, and then Diggle joined for over half of season 1. 

[slayer2]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what other commitments are you talking about? I just checked CL's IMDB and there are no new projects listed as in-development for her and the movie she was filming wrapped weeks ago. I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way because I would be thrilled for CL if she's going places outside of Arrow, but this isn't the first time I have seen posters mentioning how busy she is and it makes me wonder if there are some (casting) news that I missed...

My personal assumption based on the EP's phrasing and CL's talents. She's more talented than all of them put together if you ask me.

CL being a dancer and stunt double as well as an actress I'm sure she's plenty busy. As well when the Arrow writer confirmed three episodes, the way he worded it sounded like he wanted to get her for more but that's all they could secure from her for now.

Edited July 24, 2014 by slayer2

[apinknightmare]

I made an edit to my comment that addresses Roy's status.

 

It wasn't solely about her safety though. He could have just locked her in the Arrowcave without saying the line at all. IMO, it was also a clear message of  "This is not your world and you need to keep out of it" .

 

He was trying to exclude her at that moment, and he used words that he thought would hurt her to keep her away. Clearly neither one of them know each other very well, because he should've known it wouldn't work (and I guess it's lucky for him that it didn't). Obviously he doesn't think that she needs to keep out of that part of his world considering the spoilers we've gotten for next season imply that she's very much in it.

Edited July 24, 2014 by apinknightmare

[slayer2]

If he messes up a relationship with Felicity you mean?

I think he's a hero regardless of what he does with or to Felicity.

Agreed. I couldn't give fucks whether Olicity, Lauriver or anybody crash and burn at the end of the day as long as he handles this new onslaught of heroes and baddies the right way. I'm far more concerned about how well he'll harness Roy's possibly recurring Mirakuruness then Olicity or any relationship (except maybe Huntress) as it pertains to his superhero-ship. Edited July 24, 2014 by slayer2

[catrox14]

He was trying to exclude her at that moment, and he used words that he thought would hurt her to keep her away. Clearly neither one of them know each other very well, because he should've known it wouldn't work (and I guess it's lucky for him that it didn't). Obviously he doesn't think that she needs to keep out of that part of his world considering the spoilers we've gotten for next season imply that she's very much in it.

 

 

 

 

I don't think he was saying something hurtful to keep her there. He already knows she doesn't listen to when people warn her not to do things, like stay away from CNRI because the building is collapsing.  I don't think he would even think it would hurt her for him to say it.  IMO the way Stephen Amell played that scene was complete and utter annoyance with Laurel for both safety and GTFO out of my cave reasons. Again the question remains, why would he change his mind? 

[strikera0]

I think it was (as it seems many things are with Oliver) just a line.

 

Exactly. It was never going to stick. Besides, the writers proved Oliver wrong immediately when they had Laurel follow him against his wishes and she ended up saving his life. If it had been just the 3 of them, Oliver would have been dead.

[SmallScreenDiva]

He's still not my favorite character on the show. Some people may like unlikeable protagonists but I usually have a point where I stop caring about them as a person. When I hit that point it won't matter if he's saving the city or not. So yes, for me it matters how he treats ALL the people in his life, romantic or not.

 

Taking my thoughts on this to the Oliver Queen thread ...

[FurryFury]

Agreed. I couldn't give fucks whether Olicity, Lauriver or anybody crash and burn at the end of the day as long as he handles this new onslaught of heroes and baddies the right way. I'm far more concerned about how well he'll harness Roy's possibly recurring Mirakuruness then Olicity or any relationship (except maybe Huntress) as it pertains to his superhero-ship.

But we all know he'll handle whatever villains the show throws at him. Hell, it doesn't even matter who's the hero at this point, he always wins (at least on shows of this format). So it's how he deals with trickier, personal stuff that matter to me the most. To cheer for a character, I need him to be more than just a hero, I need him to be a person I can like. And sorry to say, I don't like Oliver, at all.

 

It started, like many bad things on the show, in the latter half of season two, and I don't think there's a way back. Oliver's just a douche. There is still stuff on the show I truly want to watch (Thea's journey and relationship with Malcolm, Diggle and Lyla, Felicity's backstory, Suicide Squad, Sara's 3 episodes), but Arrow's way too focused on Oliver for me to overlook his douchiness.

[icandigit]

 

Agreed. I couldn't give fucks whether Olicity, Lauriver or anybody crash and burn at the end of the day as long as he handles this new onslaught of heroes and baddies the right way. I'm far more concerned about how well he'll harness Roy's possibly recurring Mirakuruness then Olicity or any relationship (except maybe Huntress) as it pertains to his superhero-ship.

I do love me some Olicity, but this is an important point.

[apinknightmare]

moved this reply to the Oliver Queen thread.

Edited July 24, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

Colton posted this photo today while wishing Emily happy birthday. 

[poetgirl925]

That's what GA has been for so long though...and Batman is the same, so I don't think that's true necessarily.

You have a fair point about Oliver/Green Arrow in comics, but what works in comics won't always work in a live action show. I've read the comics off and on for a long time and Green Arrow was never my favorite because of his general douchiness. I'd also be surprised if he's the best selling hero in DC. Actually I don't even have to check numbers to know he's not. It's not about endgame so much for me. I never expected Bruce Wayne to walk off with Catwoman in the movies but I kind of liked how that played out. What I care about is the story they tell me.

[dtissagirl]

Damn, those shoes are hot.

[Velocity23]

I want Emily's legs :P

[Password]

Ahem. Not going to lie. My eyes went straight to the shoes. Then the legs. Oliver Queen is a dumbass.

[Chairman Meow]

Well these are the same people that compared Suicide Squad to The Avengers. ..so you know, delusions of grandeur. ..

They've now likened their work to that of Joss Whedon, Steven Spielberg and Francis Ford Coppola.   Okay.   I think someone needs to put the crack pipe down.  

[statsgirl]

I love those shoes. I could only wear them for about five minutes, but they look good.

 

I think it very much matters how Oliver treats Diggle and Felicity and even Roy because being a hero is not just about how he fights criminals.  More practically, there are a few anti-hero characters on TV who people love but I don't think Oliver can be a douche and still get people to watch the show.  Even Gregory House, with all his brilliance as a diagnostician, crossed the douche line after a while and people tuned out. It's even more important for a small network like CW not to turn viewers off.

Welp. Just as I feared and loathed. What the hell was the point of Oliver saying "It started with the three of us and that's what we need to get back to" when they are actually adding ANOTHER person to the Arrowcave, even if only part time.?

I took that line as the EPs telling the audience "I know you guys have been complaining there are too many characters now and calling for us to get back to the original Team Arrow, so hang in there, we heard you."  One of the EPs (I think AK) also said in an interview that people were wanting the get back to O/D/F after the mid season 2 episodes.

 

It was never going to be just the three of them again regardless of Laurel.

Not all Arrow cave members are equal.  I don't mind Roy being part of the team because Roy is a sidekick, a student and even though he's got his Arsenal costume now, I think the EPs will continue to have him as a secondary character, getting a side story and the occasional 'A' story. With Sara it was different, as soon as she entered the cave in Heir to the Demon, she was an equal to Oliver and prominent in seven of the next eight episode while Diggle and Felicity became background noise, although Diggle at least got Suicide Squad.   I'm afraid that Laurel is going to be like that, that because of how much the EPs love her, she's going to be an 'A' character like Sara rather than a 'B' character like Roy.  I don't want that much time spend on Laurel and I especially don't want Diggle and Felicity to take back seats to her in terms of screentime.

 

Taking my Laurel comments to her thread.

 

In terms of the coming season, am I missing anything?

ep 1 The Calm -- lots of stuff happening, new drug, Ray Palmer appears, Oliver asks Felicity on a date but it ends with them being apart, sighting of Sara

ep 2 Sara  -- Sara story, 

ep 3  Corto Maltese -- Diggle story, Deadshot returns

The Flash ep 4 -- Felicity visits to help Barry with his superhero problems and love life, ending Baricity.

Arrow and Flash crossovers

[stormborn]

 

The spoilers are laying the date on thick what with Felicity being all "a date? A date date?" And Oliver being the one stumbling over his words. I hope it's worth it because otherwise what's the point.

 

That's kinda how I feel about it as well. Everything sounds great on paper for the most part, but still what's the point of going so hard with Olicity in the season premiere if they're just gonna be back at square one by the time the episode is over? Even if it ends up with them being completely honest about their feelings for each other, I'm still not understanding why that necessarily has to happen now? 

 

Apart from promotional reasons of course, which irritates me to a large degree, even as a hardcore Olicity shipper. Cause I find the show and the network rely way too much on that ship when it comes to promotion and marketing. I really hope that doesn't mess with the organic growth of the couple but whatever we'll wait and see, I guess. 

 

 

I think it was (as it seems many things are with Oliver) just a line.

 

I never put much stock in that line either. I mean, I liked the way Stephen delivered it, it seemed like he was directly addressing the audience and I took it for what it was; the show's shoddy attempt at acknowledging that they effed up the TA dynamics during the season; with the inclusion of way too many people in the Arrow cave at one time. I'm not as worried as some people seem to be about Laurel spending a lot of time in the Lair this season cause I think the show is aware that the audience prefers Team Arrow as a trio. Roy, to me is still very much an associate of the Team and as someone said earlier; a sidekick.

 

Diggle and Felicity are Oliver's chosen life partners... 

[wonderwall]

That's kinda how I feel about it as well. Everything sounds great on paper for the most part, but still what's the point of going so hard with Olicity in the season premiere if they're just gonna be back at square one by the time the episode is over? Even if it ends up with them being completely honest about their feelings for each other, I'm still not understanding why that necessarily has to happen now? 

I feel like the reason for this is because the EPs want to slowly dip the arrow fandom's toes into Olicity and see the general reception they get. After the finale a lot of people (including fanboys) said "I never thought I was a shipper until I was screaming at my TV and telling Oliver/Felicity to kiss"... Again, I honestly just think that they just want to give the audience a taste of what's to come or the possibility of a new relationship between Oliver/Felicity and just gauge their reactions so they can dictate future storylines/plot accordingly. 

 

As for the "it started with the three of us" line, I've always felt that Oliver meant that his crusade in becoming a hero started with the three of them, not Oliver's mission to right his father's wrongs. Before Digg and Felicity he was just a shell of a man, but after, that's when his mission to help Starling become a safer city truly began. 

[Velocity23]

Apparently the date of F/O isn't even Felicity's worst date.

http://uk.eonline.com/news/562859/arrow-scoop-find-out-what-felicity-says-to-oliver-after-their-season-3-premiere-date